Feedback that Empowers and Facilitates Engagement

WEBVTT

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Chok. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortez to any
from Dallas, Texas, which is home

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base for me. This program is
all about helping people more meaningfully and productively

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connect with their work and equipping organizations
to do the same for their employees.

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So I bring a guest with a
particular perspective or an experience that I think

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expands the conversation. I often draw
in the meeting and work research I been

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doing over the last fifteen years,
as well as from my own consulting experience,

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include in the work I do to
day Insignium, which is a global

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management consulting firm. I will get
to my program in Jazz a moment.

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Let me think. My media partner
and sponsor jobbing dot Com. Jobbing dot

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com is the leading locally focused job
board in the nation and they are dedicated

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helping employers find quality talent in their
own backyard and giving job seeers control where

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their search that can find work close
to home. Last week, if you

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miss the show live, you can
always catch if you've recorded podcast. We

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were on the air with Diane McClay, who has a certified professional Whole person

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coach who helps midlife professionals navigate career
transitions through choice, encouraged to make meaningful

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change. We talked about the Unleashed
Your Dream Career online interview series she's currently

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hosting, featuring twenty plus renowned experts
who help midlife career professionals create and sustain

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more meaning and purpose in the second
half of their life. Great conversation with

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her. She's incredibly energetic and knows
her stuff. It was a great conversation

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with us. This week is David
Perks, the founder and CEO of pay

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Compliment, a platform for customers,
peers, and managers to give direct feedback

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to the people and organizations they interact
with so that customer service level and employee

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performance are maintained at the highest possible
levels in real time. All the time.

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We'll be talking about how feedback service
both the employee and the organization,

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and how leaders can incorporate it to
motivate their teams to higher engagement and performance.

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David joins it today from Sydney,
Australia, where the time is fifteen

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hours ahead of Dallas, which means
it's four o'clock in the afternoon for me

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here in Dallas, and I think
it's seven or eight am on Wednesday for

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him. David, welcome to Working
on Purpose. Thanks Alsa, it's a

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pleasure to be here and it's a
beautiful morning here in Sydney to have this

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conversation with you. Thank you.
And I guess it's Thursday, not Wednesday

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for you, right, that's right
on Thursday. All right, wait to

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start the day. Well, let's
get into it. I want to give

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the listeners as much as we can, and I do want to say that

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again, I found you, I
think I found you on Twitter and looked

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up what you were up to,
and I said, you know, I

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think that makes for a good conversation
for the radio program. So I was

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like to give a shout out to
my social media friends out there. You

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are Otherwise you and I would have
no reason to talk, David, So

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great to know you. Great to
know you too at least, and the

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Internet's a fabulous way of making connections. So we're going to talk more about

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that today. I think sounds could
well. I want to jump right end

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of the conversation and open with what
you told me about a past practice of

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yours that I think is pretty important
to this conversation. You told me that

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you were spending eight plus hours on
flights from Australia, during which time you

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would write handwritten letters to clients and
other people you work with, telling them

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what you appreciated about them. I'd
like it if you could talk about this

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practice, where it came from,
and how it led to you starting pay

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Compliment. Great way to start,
and yeah, that really was the beginnings

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of the principles behind the pay Compliment
platform. And I think it goes all

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the way back to the values that
we were brought up with it as kids,

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where my parents would always encourage us
to write thank you notes for gifts

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and experiences that we've been through ass
and that kind of became necessary in this

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corporate environment where I had that big
corporate job. It was an American multinational

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company that I was working for in
Asia Pacific, and we were really about

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four or five percent of revenue for
that company. And so going through traditional

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performance management processes of grading people,
forced distribution in a belcove of the top

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five percent, the next ten,
etc. And then making our claim for

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any discretionary pay that we could,
we were really a small voice in that

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organization, and it caused me to
go down the path of looking more at

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intrinsic motivation than extrinsic motivation. And
that's where this practice became very important to

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the performance of my team and my
division. And so what I would do

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do is on regular trips from Australia
up to two different parts of Asia,

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I would just use some of that
time on the plane to handwrite thank you

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notes and it would just be too
individuals in a large extended team who I've

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noticed had done something outstanding, and
rather than make a big song and dance

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and fanfare of that, I would
give the individual would just find a moment

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where we could be one on one. I give the individual the written letter

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and just thank them for what they've
done. And that was good, and

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you know, I got a good
feedback on that as I was doing it.

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But what then came to pass was
that four or five years after giving

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a person one of those letters,
so gentlemen called Asha Kumarak in Singapore,

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it was time for me to leave
that organization. And I received a lovely

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email from Ashop that told me that
even after four years, he'd still got

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my letter and it was a treasured
possession that he kept in his desk and

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brought out from time to time to
reread when he needed. You know,

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that extra jolt of motivation, and
that really was powerful for me. It

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meant to me that that small act
four years ago had had a very long

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lasting effect on that individual, and
it really then became my purpose to look

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at how to scale that up and
scale that out and make that experience available

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to as many people as possible.
So that's how the thought behind the platform

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started. And then luckily I work
my way into a position of having my

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own company and my own team,
and so I was able to experiment with

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that intrinsic motivation further with those staff
and to kind of systematize that into the

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practices that are embedded into the paid
complement platform. I appreciate very much that

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you distinguish that what you're really surfacing
or addressing is intrinsic motivation instead of extrening

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motivation. I think that's incredibly powerful, and I didn't really quite see that

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until you talked about it. So
thank you for that. It is very

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powerful. And into that, and
before you talk more about the platform,

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because I do want to share and
hear how it actually works, I also

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want to go ahead and thread in
your interest in helping people enjoy more meaningful

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work, because of course that's a
complete crossover for both of us. Why

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are you interested in people find meaningful
work? Well, for the longest time,

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probably a slow learner in this regard, I didn't even realize that some

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people didn't find meaning in work.
I've always been extremely fortunate that, you

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know, my work and my passion
have been aligned, and it took me

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a long time to realize that that
wasn't the case for everyone. And we

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spend a lot of our life at
work, and so that can either be

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the best thing ever, which is
which is how it's been for me and

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unlucky for that, or a soul
destroying chore. And I think for those

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people where you know, they fall
into the latter category, that there are

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more people in that boat than I
would like, and there's the potential to

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change that, and that's what we're
keen to contribute to. And I think

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also because I've worked my entire career
in the software industry, I think it's

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also an obligation to give back because
it's the digitization and computerization of work to

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a large extent that strip the meaning
out of it for people by fragmenting the

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work that we do so that we
often don't see the end result of our

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actions. And so you know,
somebody else is at the point of sale,

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and twenty five people have worked in
the value chain to you know,

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provide the experience to the customer.
But twenty five out of the twenty six

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people involved in that don't get to
see, you know, the customer delight

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or the customer disappointment at the end
of their activity. And so I think,

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you know, we need to make
that much less opaque for each person

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us into how their actions make a
difference. And so it's kind of like

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the digital butterfly effect, where every
action of every individual accumulates into the experience

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of other human beings, but it's
not necessarily seen. And so a little

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story about that very early on in
offering the platform where we have a consumer

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platform element to the platform where people
can give feedback to retail and hospitality workers.

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As an example and so an example
of creating meaning, just a normal

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person in a retail outlet. You
know, we got the feedback for her

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from an elderly gentleman I think he
said he was seventy two or seventy eight,

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and he always saught this person out
in the store when he needed to

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recharge the same card on his phone, because that person would not just stop

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what she was doing get the right
sin card and the right plan for him

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recharge it, but she would also
go through and make sure that the recharge

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had taken effect and that he got
credit on his phone, and that that

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was the only means that he got
to communicate with his grandchildren. And so

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connecting those dots, I feel,
really creates that meaning for that retail worker

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that getting down from stocking the shelves
and going to the front of the store

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and getting the right product for the
customer and then making sure that that delivered

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the outcome that the customer was looking
for actually makes a massive difference in that

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particular customer's life. And so what
we're doing is crowdsourcing stories like that and

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then connecting the dots for every worker
that we that we can, so that

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they can see the meaning in the
work and the contribution that they're making to

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other people's lives. You see why
this was just a must have conversation for

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me, right David, you're just
smack right down my alley. A couple

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of things really quick, if I
want to go back to loop back around

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on what you said. One is
this whole notion how digitization can remove some

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of the places in ways that people
can see the overall force for the trees

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and what their contribution is for the
whole. I think that is incredible that

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you can see that so crisply as
you do, and that you've got a

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mechanism to kind of bridge that gap
without that. What I do in my

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work oftentimes, of course, is
I work with leaders to help them language

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that their for their teams, so
they can help help the team see that

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contribution when it's not immediately obvious for
themselves. So the fact that you've got

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a mechanism to help that along as
well. That creates that ripple effect I'm

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completely in favor of. And then
the other thing I wanted to also say

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is this whole notion of you know, how dismal work can be for a

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lot of people. I think you
and I talked about my research around meaning

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and work and identity that produced fifteen
modes of engagement, and when I go

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and share that with crowds, David, people are amazed when they identify which

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mode of engagement they're in. They're
shocked that there's any other way to work.

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They don't recognize. So there's other
ways people experience work, and therefore

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they don't know that there's something can
even be better or worse for them.

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So why don't you just to acknowledge
that as well. It's quite a spectrum

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of experience out there in the world, I've found. Yeah, I totally

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agree, And I would have been
one of those people who would have been

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in one mode of engagement and a
positive one, blissfully ignorant of the other

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fourteen. Very good. Yes,
I meet those people. They're always fascinating.

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Oh well, let's talk about the
employee experience here for just a second,

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if we can, David, When
we spoke on the first call to

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get acquainted. You said that people
oftentimes don't get the signals that they're doing

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good work or a great job.
What do you mean by that? Tell

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us more. Yes, I think
that there are really four types of signals

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that each person needs in order to
do their best work every day, and

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we've kind of corraled that into for
the framework that we call the four A

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framework, and the four a's in
terms of signals are alignment, assistance,

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assessment, and appreciation. And so
those are the four key ingredients to high

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performance at an individual level, we
feel, and if we take each one

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individually and look at, you know, the traditional signals that people get and

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a better possible feature for that,
it kind of tells the story. So

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if we look at alignment, typically
what would happen in organizations is that goals

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would be set at the organizational level
and then cascaded through the organization, and

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the message that workers get in that
kind of conversation is this is how you

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will align. And so there's very
little choice for the individual in in how

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that happens and what they're aligning to
in that cascaded paradigm. An alternative and

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a way of creating stronger signals is
to turn that around and to have the

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conversation that goes along the lines of
this is what we're doing, how can

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your strength and purposes make the best
contribution to that, and so really aligning

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the individual to the goals as opposed
to aligning the goals to the individual and

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turning that context around. Similarly,
with assistance, what would typically happen in

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assistance is I'd be looking at a
competition framework for the job description, and

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the conversation would be, Okay,
this is where you're you don't measure up.

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These are the gaps in your experience
against this made up framework that you

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know HR have conjured up and you're
not hitting the mark. Instead of that,

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if I look at your inherent strengths
and the skills you want to master

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and orient the assistance that I provide
as a leader to that, then we're

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going to end up in a much
better place where your strengths are elevated and

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you're a unique individual as a resource
to the company. As opposed to that,

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we've got a set of people performing
at a mediocre level across a pre

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defined set of competencies, and so
changing that assistance conversation to be strength based

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and individualized. It's very important.
Assessment conversations tend to be I'm looking back

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at the year just gone, and
this is where you failed, and so

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we're looking at all of the reasons
why someone is rated at a level that

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they're rated, and it's generally a
negative conversation. Instead of that, if

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we have the assessment conversation that says, I'm looking forward at what challenges lie

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ahead, and this is where I
can see that we can stretch you,

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then that really changes the emphasis or
episodically in the moment. If we have

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the conversation when this happened, I
noticed that, and then can we brain

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some some other ways to handle that
if it comes up again. That way,

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we're perhaps looking at something that could
have been a negative conversation and turning

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it into a positive framework for better
future performance. An appreciation, I think

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is the one that makes the biggest
difference, but is often the least authentic,

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and so I think leaders in general
have become quite lazy in regards to

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appreciation, and even when it's shown, it's generally a platitude. So I

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thank you. A pat on the
back is better than nothing, but it's

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not as powerful as a structured piece
of appreciation. When you did this,

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I felt like that, or I
learned something which was this, or I

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was able to So what was that
person's impact that I am great on me,

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that I am grateful for. How
did I improve as a result of

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that person's act. So those are
the kind of signals that we're we're really

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looking to elevate in the platform and
to make sure that every worker gets the

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breadth oft signals and the frequency of
signals that helps them to do their best

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work every day. I'm completely a
fan and I'll comment more, but let's

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kind of cut for a quick break
here. I'm your host, Alice Cortez.

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We've been on the air with David
Perks, who is the founder and

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CEO of pay Compliment, a platform
for customers, peers and managers to give

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direct feedback to the people and organizations
they interact with, so the customer service

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levels and employee performance are maintained at
the highest possible levels in real time.

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He joins to Day from Sydney,
Australia. We'll talk more after the break.

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Stay with us. It's your World, Motivates Change, Succeed Voice America

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00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:12.559
empowerment dot com. Elise Cortez is
a speaker and engagement and development catalyst.

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00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:18.160
She designs and delivers professional development,
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring her

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00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:23.319
expertise to your organization. She will
help ignite meaningful development within your workforce that

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will increase employee engagement, performance and
retention. To learn more or to invite

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00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:33.640
Elise to speak to your organization,
please visit her at www dot Elise Cortez

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00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:38.519
dot com. She would welcome the
opportunity to help get your employees working on

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00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:44.319
purpose. It's time to live the
life of inner peace that you deserve.

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00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:49.279
Tune in every week for Sacred Exploration
with host Lisa tremont Oda. You can

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discover the you that has been kept
hidden all this time, show off your

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personal gifts to the world. Lisa
and her guests will combine health and spirituality

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to bring the experience that you've been
waiting for. You'll enjoy this journey every

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Wednesday at five pm Pacific Time at
eight pm Eastern Time on the Voice America

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00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:14.440
Empowerment Channel. It's sure to be
a nourishing experience. Do you sometimes feel

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powerless over your own life? Does
it seem like you're living for someone else,

243
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.599
unsure of what your purpose is,
or if you even have an important

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00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.720
voice, It's time to take back
that control. Tune into Empowered with Dez

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and Gen. They've been in the
same place and have learned to regain control

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of their lives. They also feature
amazing guests who share experiences of how they

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have found success. Start on your
journey by listening Mondays at one pm Pacific

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four pm Eastern on Voice America Empowerment. Success starts here Voice America Empowerment dot

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Com. It's your world. This
is Working on Purpose with Elise Cortez.

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To reach our program today, please
call in to one triple eight three four

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six nine one four one. Again, that's one triple eight three four six

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nine one four one. You may
also send an email to Elise ali Se

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00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:26.640
at Elise Portez dot com. Now
back to Working on Purpose. Thanks for

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00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.599
staying with us, and welcome back
to Working on Purpose if you're just joining

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us. My guest is David Perks, who is the founder and CEO of

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pay Compliment, a platform for customers, peers, and managers to give direct

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feedback to the people and organizations they
interact with. So the customer service levels

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and employee performance are maintained at the
highest possible levels in real time all the

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time. So before the break,
David, we were talking. You're talking

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about your four A levels, which
was incredibly useful, and I really appreciate

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it. If I heard this right, that you've bucket them on both more

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of the negative plus the positive side. If I heard that right, also

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great, Okay, good. I
also really appreciate how at each level you

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could see the ongoing build in the
depth there. That was incredibly useful,

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and I would think that in order
for the people that you work with to

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be able to separate that and really
start to see how feedback can be given

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in a very structured way can be
so useful. And to that end,

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I'm interested, certainly because of the
work that I do as a management consultant

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and doing a lot of leadership development. I know you're interested in helping leaders

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incorporate giving feedback and expressing appreciation for
their workforce in order to help motivate their

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employees but certainly give them more meaning
in their work. Can you see a

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little bit about that perspective and the
efforts that you've got going there. Yeah,

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So what we've noticed in general is
that feedback the word is stigmatized,

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and it's stigmatized and creates anxiety,
largely because people associate it with negative feedback.

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So what we're doing through our naming
and through some of the techniques that

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we use, is trying to bring
balance to that. And neuroscience indicates that

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the brain is six seven eight times
more effective at remembering harmful or negative events

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than it is at positive events.
And so what we're trying to do is

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encourage leaders to build up a bank
of positivity by noticing and observing and commenting

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on positive aspects of people's work in
order that when the time comes that they

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need to course correct or adjust,
that that is seen as an unusual event

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and that it doesn't trigger a threat
response in the employee's brain that puts them

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into defensive mode. And so we
work with neuroscientists and psychologists to really try

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to engender a reward response through the
way that we capture and deliver feedback to

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individuals, so that there is the
greatest chance that they'll remain open to the

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observation, that they will take it
on board, and that they'll take action

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to address the observation. And that's
important we feel because you know, a

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lot of research and studies show that
performance review and feedback for about thirty three

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thirty four percent of the recipient is
a negative event rather than a positive one.

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And you know, obviously that's not
the intent something that you just said

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there that I want to call it. That's quite first gating around the neuroscience

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piece of this stepid in that we
tend to we seem to remember more powerfully

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the negative comments than we do the
positive ones. And then you said something

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about a threat response, and so
my mind immediately went to, this must

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be some thing really baked into our
very very angel brains about survival. Is

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that right? Yeah, absolutely so. We're designed to survive as a human

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being, and that's baked into the
way that our brains work. And very

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often, you know, just the
mention of feedback, if I was to

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say to you, at least,
let me give you some feedback in your

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brain. You know, I've taken
control. I'm going to give you some

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feedback. You don't have a choice. It's coming your way. Because of

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your prior experience, you'll you'll associate
that that conversation is probably going to be

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critical about you know, your your
performance and harmful to reputation, and it

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might not even be equitable or fair
because it's just my opinion. And so

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I'm ing through that all of these
reactions that most likely cause you to defend

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yourself. Where if I was to
say, at least can we find a

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time where I can share some observations
with you that conversation, I'm giving you

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some choice. We're going to share
some conversation, some observations, and so

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it's a conversation. You're a party
too, it's not a broadcast. You're

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there to receive it's observations, and
so it's going to be based on some

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facts rather than some opinions that I've
gotten. So just the language changes the

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experience, and what we've tried to
do in the platform is to bake that

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language in and to bake good behavior
around feedback into the platform so that we're

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triggering those reward responses and in a
growth mind that rather than fearful and anxious

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about what's to come. And of
course I'm a fan of the growth mindset

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too, and I've had other guests
on the show talking about that as well,

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and it's related to something you talked
about earlier. That I want to

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get a little bit more information onto. David. You talked about that good

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leadership is strengths based and encourageous people
to pursue what they're passionate about, what

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they like doing, and of course, I, as a gallop sort of

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had strength coach, I completely agree
with that, but we'd like to hear

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a bit more about your perspective on
that. Yeah, So really what we're

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trying to do there is help people
to know their strengths, so using techniques

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similar to strength Finder and other frameworks
for that. But I think you know,

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we've got a blog post that's been
quite popular around autonomy, and we

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use in that the example of an
autonomous vehicle, a self driving car,

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And if you think about that,
you know, the reason that cars can

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be autonomous is because they've got one
clear destination that they're heading for. They've

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got signals coming in from all sorts
of sensors about adjustments that they need to

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make to cope with environment the environment
that they're operating in. They've got GPS

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signals that tell them they're on the
right path, and speed signals that tell

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them they're moving at the right pace
to get to their destination. And so

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when we think about autonomous employees,
really organizations and individuals that are actually more

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comfortable with the idea of an autonomous
vehicle than they are an autonomous employee.

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And so we think that's you know, perhaps not right, and that employees

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can be autonomous in a very safe
way by having one clear destination that's based

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upon, you know, what they're
designed to do, what their strengths are

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are geared towards, by having the
signals that tell them they're they're on the

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right path, and by having the
signals that tell them that they're the progress

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signals that tell them that they're moving
at the right pace. And so,

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you know, I think it's much
more these days about individualizing jobs and designing

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you know, flexible jobs that are
geared towards the individual that's in the role,

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as opposed to trying to coerce an
individual with unique strengths into the shape

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that you know, the textbook says
the role would be best served by I

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am drinking up every single word that
you're saying. And what I think what

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I want to say is, at
one, it makes so much sense what

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you're saying, and then two,
it's so inspiring to hear someone language this

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the same way that I do,
and then actually have a platform and a

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perspective to be able to help employers
around the world with this. This is

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great, or just organizations around the
world with this. It's just really refreshing

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to hear you talk, David,
and the accent doesn't hurt either, I

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suppose. And speaking of different organizations, do you have any examples that you

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can share with us, maybe one
or two, and Sally, not without

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giving the identity away if it doesn't
help the person or the organization of organizations

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that you've seen it really incent high
employee engagement or high performance or better customer

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acquisition. Yeah. So we've been
working with very closely with kind of founder

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customers because they've been the ones who've
been giving post the signals to take the

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platform in the direction it's gone.
And I'm thinking of one in particular,

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and they outreach to their employees with
five questions and one of those questions is

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quite confrontational when you when you take
it out face value, it's am I

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in the right role? Team and
firm? And it's a yes or no

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answer with comments to justify that,
and you'd actually think that you know people

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would be reticent to answer no to
that question, and I think it says

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a lot for this organization's culture that
on any kind of cycle of the outreach,

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about five percent of their people will
say no, I'm not feeling like

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I'm in the right team for role
or firm. And of course that then

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means that you know, a conversation
about why and how that can change and

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what needs to be done to address
that can happen. And so you know,

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I think radical candor is you know, getting a little bit of airplay,

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and that would be an example of
where we've seen that level of you

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know, confidence and culture and interesting
employees to make sure that they are in

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the right role, team and firm
perpetually really paid dividence. And we've seen

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that people who have answered no to
that question in a cycle have had an

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intervention and then have started to answer
yes to that question subsequent to that intervention.

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So we can see, you know, the direct consequence of asking the

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engagement questions and then attending to the
answers has helped with retention and motivation of

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a reasonable proportion of that workforce.
So four or five percent of your workforce

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being re engaged or reenergized is significant. It is significant, It certainly is.

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And I also I do appreciate that
radical candor. I've never heard that

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phrase before, but I quite like
that. And I purposely did this,

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David in terms of how I wanted
to chat with you in this conversation that

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I wanted you to sort of talk
through some of your thinking and what's important

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to you before I ask you how
the platform actually works so that our listeners

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could be more present to really understanding
it better. So at this juncture,

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00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.079
will you tell us, I mean
a little bit about pay compliment and how

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00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.320
it enables a lifelong platform for the
individual and how it actually serves the various

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00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:54.599
parties that you work with. How
does it work and what's involved. Yeah,

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00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:58.840
so I won't turn this into a
sales pitch, but I will talk

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00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:00.719
about the things that are important too. Is it in our model? And

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so the first one that you mentioned
there is lifelong And so we are a

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member based platform where the individual is
the member and their membership is sometimes initiated

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independently, but often initiated by an
employer. Regardless of that their membership lasts

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for their life. And with the
rise in the gig economy. We think

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that's really important because what we're trying
to address with that aspect of the platform

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is that more and more workers are
in non exclusive relationships with an employer or

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in short tenure relationships with an employer, and if we use employers centric platforms

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for performance, then those individuals don't
have any continuity while they learned how they

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00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:09.400
will coach the feedback that they received, that all gets left behind when they

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moved from one organization to the next, or if they're working concurrently as a

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gig worker for several organizations, then
their signals are fragmented and they're not consolidated

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into one cogent stream that drives that
individual's improvement. So by having a lifelong

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employee centric platform, we think we
address that. The second thing that we're

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trying to do is recognize that organizations
these days are much more of a network

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and much less of a hierarchy,
and so the relationships that we have inside

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of those organizations are more fluid,
and we should rely less on the idea

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that information is going to come to
us from a cascading effect through through an

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organizational hierarchy, and so we democratized
feedback by making the opportunity to give and

408
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:22.199
get feedback available to anyone at any
time. And so we've talked a lot

409
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:28.679
about leadership, but in this context, we would see everyone in the organization

410
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:34.679
of being as being a leader at
least of themselves, and potentially a leader

411
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:40.960
through influence rather than title or position
of others by coaching them through events.

412
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:49.480
So we've democratized feedback, we've made
it lifelong. We're employee centric platform,

413
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:54.000
and we provide both structured and unstructured
means. And so if I want to

414
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:59.280
give feedback just in my own language, you know, as a story or

415
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:06.079
an observation, I can do that
by writing it or recording video or speech.

416
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.320
But on the other hand, if
I need some structure and I want

417
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:16.000
to use a mechanism like stock keep
Start or four level coaching feedback, or

418
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:22.039
even their promoter scores, then you
know, we have templates that are structured

419
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:34.119
to allow that to happen. So
very variety is important to us, and

420
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.719
we think, you know, a
good feedback diet is a varied feedback diet.

421
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:49.039
It's a mix of assessments and grading
as well as storytelling and situational observation.

422
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.360
Brilliant David Oh my gosh, I'm
so impressed that really is brilliant and

423
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.760
a private witted citizen. To our
last break, I'm your host, Alice

424
00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:59.440
Cortez. We've around the air with
David Perks, who is the founder in

425
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:02.760
CEO of pay Complement a platform for
customers, peers, and managers to give

426
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:07.880
direct feedback to the people and organizations
they interact with, so that customer service

427
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:10.920
levels and employee performance are maintained at
the highest possible levels in real time,

428
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:28.280
all the time. Stay with us, We'll be right back. It's your

429
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:37.400
world. Motivate, change, succeed. Voice America Empowerment dot com. Alis

430
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:42.920
Cortez is a speaker and engagement and
development catalyst. She designs and delivers professional

431
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:47.119
development, leadership and engagement workshops and
can bring her expertise to your organization.

432
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:52.400
She will help ignite meaningful development within
your workforce that will increase employee engagement,

433
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:57.480
performance and retention. To learn more
or to invite a last to speak to

434
00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:01.920
your organization, please visit her at
w dot Elise Cortez dot com. She

435
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:07.840
would welcome the opportunity to help get
your employees working on purpose. Many of

436
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:13.039
us define our lives by what has
already happened. It's a past tense series

437
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:15.400
of events. Do you long for
something else? You don't have to live

438
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:20.800
solely in this reality. Tune in
for to Win Within with hosts Strom,

439
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:23.880
Thomas and Strom and his guests are
here to introduce you to your true self.

440
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:28.719
It's time to emerge from your box
and take a beautiful journey of self

441
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:32.559
love and discovery. You'll find yourself
exactly where you need to be to Win

442
00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:37.960
Within. Airs live every Thursday of
four pm Eastern time one pm Pacific time

443
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:43.400
on Voice America Empowerment. Do we
really have a full understanding as to whindly

444
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:47.000
do certain things and function the way
that we do? There are many different

445
00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:51.880
aspects of trauma and you can learn
more about them and how to overcome the

446
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.840
symptoms by tuning in to Trauma Talk
with host as Rena Rose Scott. On

447
00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:00.639
Trauma Talk as Rena and her special
guest expert in Clients, we'll discuss the

448
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:06.920
different results of trauma and some effective
methods in resolving and healing from them.

449
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Listen live every Tuesday at ninety percent
the time New and Eastern Time on Voice

450
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:16.599
America Empowerment. Friend us on Facebook
to keep up with what's empowering the world

451
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:30.480
Voice America Empowerment. This is Working
on Purpose with Elise Cortez. To reach

452
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:35.760
our program today, please call in
to one triple eight three four six nine

453
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:39.199
one four one. Again, that's
one triple eight three four six nine one

454
00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:45.480
four one. You may also send
an email to Elise ali se at Elise

455
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:52.880
Cortez dot com. Now back to
Working on Purpose. Thanks for staying with

456
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.760
us, and welcome back to Working
on Purpose. If you're just tuning in,

457
00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:59.519
My guest is David Perks, who
is the founder and CEO of pay

458
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.760
Complain, a platform for customers,
peers, and managers to give direct feedback

459
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:07.639
to the people and organizations they interact
with so that customer service levels and employee

460
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.559
performance are maintained at the highest possible
levels in real time. I'm your host,

461
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:15.760
Alice Cortez. So, David,
that was a tremendous rendition of what

462
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:20.000
you've established as a platform. I'm
terribly impressed, and so glad I found

463
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:22.639
you, and so glad I get
to share this with our listeners across the

464
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:25.519
globe. I'm certainly a fan.
And one of the things that you also

465
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:30.199
said there as you were talking about
your platform is this move towards the gig

466
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:34.039
economy, And of course I recognize
that from the Free Agent Nation book that

467
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.599
Dan Pink wrote years ago, but
I'd like it if you could talk a

468
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:40.400
bit about what you know of the
gig economy and what it is you're trying

469
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:47.039
to address in it. YEP.
So the gig economy is growing, and

470
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:55.960
it's not just the likes of zero
resource organizations like Uber and Airbnb and the

471
00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:01.880
likes of those, but it's the
you serve contingent workers, temporary workers,

472
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:12.719
contracts as consultants in an enterprise that's
growing at the expense of normal salary workers.

473
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:17.280
And so we see a future where
many more individuals are going to be

474
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:25.039
deriving their income from the gig economy
and their own endeavors as an individual,

475
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:34.360
and depending on the statue, believe
already that might be affecting forty to fifty

476
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.960
percent of the workforce in the in
the US that are involved in the gig

477
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:45.400
economy in some way, shape or
form. And we think there's some changes

478
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:52.119
in behavior that are required that we're
trying to drive there from the organization and

479
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.880
from the individual. And so from
the organization, what we see and we've

480
00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:07.760
surveyed a lot to cover this.
Most organizations exclude non salaried staff from performance

481
00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:15.719
management and performance improvements, and so
those staff are not getting through the organization

482
00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:24.519
assessment. They're not getting learning resources, they're not getting opportunities that are assigned

483
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:30.880
necessarily aligned to their purpose. They
might be getting those things through chance,

484
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:35.480
but they're not getting those things through
design. And we think that the mindset

485
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:42.960
of organizations who are using gig economy
workers needs to be a stewardship mindset that

486
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:49.159
whilst that gig economy worker is working
for my organization, I am responsible for

487
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:54.320
they for their development, and for
helping them to do their best work,

488
00:44:54.880 --> 00:45:01.880
as opposed to hands off kind of
approach of we a high fee or a

489
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:08.159
significant daily rate and expect that they
bring the skills necessary to the transaction.

490
00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:15.880
So there's that element from the individual
perspective. What we've noticed is that when

491
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:22.119
workers enter the gig economy, there's
a high likelihood that they will enter at

492
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:27.480
a certain level the level that they're
performing at at the time, and that

493
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:32.480
they will remain at that level for
their entire subsequent time in the gig economy,

494
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:38.119
rather than developing themselves and so we
see that in the gig economy,

495
00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:43.079
you need to be the CEO of
yourself, and that you need to take

496
00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:50.079
control of your own product, which
is you and the value of that product,

497
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.000
and we provide the tool set to
do that. Again, David,

498
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:57.599
there's so much wonderful alignment here.
Anybody who's listening to my show a little

499
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:02.239
bit knows that I'm horribly interested in
artificial intelligence and robotics and how the workforce

500
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:07.159
will need to continue to evolve their
own skill sets to be able to play

501
00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:13.239
more in that arena and complement that
that technology and continue to develop their skills

502
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:15.760
so that they're they're viable. And
I certainly see that what you're up to

503
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:22.159
helps enable that, and I really
really appreciate and I applaud that that's tremendous

504
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:24.599
for me. Thank you. Yeah, I'm so glad I found you,

505
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.119
and you've already mentioned it, but
this whole notion you and I were chatting

506
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:32.480
on the phone, that you know, without the feedback, the risk is

507
00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:37.199
that the worker stagnates without progressing,
which is just what you've already surfaced.

508
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:39.880
I can tell you that in the
coaching work that I do, I oftentimes

509
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:45.360
run into people with either two situations. One is they do need to continue

510
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:49.440
to develop their skills and their competencies
to progress, either they've been asked to

511
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:52.119
do so or their board. Or
two. In many cases, especially with

512
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:55.760
women, they frankly need to develop
their confidence in order to take on more

513
00:46:57.559 --> 00:47:00.440
And it seems to me that your
tool would be able to address and give

514
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:07.519
information on both those fronts. Yeah, in fact, we won't have time

515
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:15.320
to talk about it today, but
we've done some really insightful work about performance

516
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:22.199
achievements based on gender, and so
the techniques and methods that a female worker

517
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:30.119
needs to adopt versus a male worker, and suffice it to say that depending

518
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:37.719
on gender requires the persons to take
a different approach. And so we're coaching

519
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:43.559
females and working with an organization called
Headheart and Brain in the UK to coach

520
00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:50.920
females to achieve performance in a different
way than we're coaching males to achieve performance.

521
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:57.440
And that's based upon patterns of behavior
that we've been able to use artificial

522
00:47:57.559 --> 00:48:04.559
intelligence and data minding to surface.
So it's a fascinating area. The other

523
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:08.559
thing that we've started to do,
and this is based upon some insights from

524
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:16.079
Josh Person and David Rockett and your
Leadership Institute. We are in the midst

525
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:22.599
of building micro learning into the platform
as well as the feedback aspect, and

526
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:29.360
so what we will do with that
is joining up the experience of receiving feedback

527
00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:36.280
and and observation to also then having
the resources available to address that if there's

528
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:44.239
a learning need or or an adjustment
required in actually providing the training resources on

529
00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:51.239
platform. And so that is very
much geared towards enabling the independent worker or

530
00:48:51.360 --> 00:49:00.719
the gig worker to control our destiny
all on one platform the way that they

531
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:05.480
choose, at the pace that they
choose. Wow. Another point of brilliant,

532
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.880
Stevid, when does the spigot stop
of brilliance? I'm just wondering,

533
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:13.440
wonderful? You know, really,
we probably need to see about how wing

534
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:15.960
you come back and see if you
can share some of these things with our

535
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.960
listeners. They're all incredibly pertnitch in
my listenership and it would be well received.

536
00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:22.000
So we'll talk about that at another
time, But for what's left of

537
00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:23.960
the session, a couple more things
I would like to get out of you

538
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.199
if I can, David. One
of the things that you also mentioned when

539
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:31.559
we first spoke was that you are
interested in helping workers stay true to their

540
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:36.440
passion. How did you help them
do that? Well, I think the

541
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:40.000
first thing is uncovering the passion.
So I've actually found that, you know,

542
00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:46.239
when you ask an individual about their
purpose and their passion, quite quite

543
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:53.159
often there's an uncomfortable silence after that. And so you know, prompting that

544
00:49:53.440 --> 00:50:02.800
thought to really get precise about why
you're why is where we start and then

545
00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:07.639
aligning all of these signals to that
and saying, okay, well, how

546
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:15.800
do we you know, fast track
your your path to to to resolving your

547
00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:22.639
why is where the platform comes in
and crowdsourcing all of the input that's necessary,

548
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:28.280
you know, to take you along
that fast path. So that's really

549
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:35.480
the paradigm for us is crowdsourcing these
signals, aggregating them all into one stream

550
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:40.280
for the individual, no matter where
they're coming from, and then allowing that

551
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:46.320
individual to progress and to see their
progress in real time all of the time.

552
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:51.760
Wow. Another big fat wow.
Now what I don't know that I

553
00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:55.480
fully understand is crowdsourcing the signals.
Would you say more about that? Yeah?

554
00:50:55.639 --> 00:51:00.800
So what we do is we provide
a feed back ID and that ID

555
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:05.480
is unique to you. And so
what that can be used for is on

556
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:08.800
my business card, it's in my
email signatures, as a button, it

557
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:13.920
can be on any report that I
produce. It's a way of saying I

558
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:16.519
am open for your feedback, I
would like it, and this is the

559
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:22.400
means by which you can give it
to me directly and privately. And so

560
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:29.199
there are fifty five touch points that
we've identified that would be appropriate to prompt

561
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:34.719
for feedback, and so what we
do is we feedback enable all of those

562
00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:40.119
so that you can capture signals at
any of those touch points with any individual

563
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:46.480
in private, in real time,
David process or anything you have not thought

564
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:52.480
through on this. There's a lot
on our back club that we're that we're

565
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:58.400
striving to do at least, but
we're really pleased with the performance of the

566
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:02.639
platform so far and we can see
that it's making a difference and that's what's

567
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:07.280
driving us, you know, each
day too, to make it easier to

568
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:15.119
use, to make it impactful,
and to broaden the awareness of it.

569
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:20.880
Splendid Well, we're almost at a
time and if my listeners know that I'd

570
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:22.519
like to give my guests the last
word here, So you know, the

571
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:27.960
show, David is about helping listeners
across the globe more meaningfully and productively connect

572
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:30.559
with their work and equipping Origination to
do the same for their employees. Given

573
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.519
that, how would you like to
leave our listeners today? What would you

574
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:37.920
like to leave them with? I
think there's two calls to action. One

575
00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:40.800
is to think about the feedback that
you need to get to do your best

576
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:45.880
work every day, and if you're
not getting that, to ask for it,

577
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:50.239
and you can use our platform,
or you can use any other means

578
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:53.800
that you like to do that.
And the second is set yourself a challenge

579
00:52:53.880 --> 00:53:00.440
to share something that you've noticed that
would help someone to improve that performance,

580
00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:05.159
and to do that every day.
And if you do those two things,

581
00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:09.159
then your impact on the world and
the impact that you're making on the world

582
00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:15.639
will very quickly increase. What a
fantastic way to finish, David. I

583
00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:21.159
am so hopelessly glad I found you. We are absolutely of like minds on

584
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:23.440
so many ways, really impressed with
the work that you're doing. Want to

585
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:28.880
help evangelize it. I'm a fan. I look forward to other conversations with

586
00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:31.079
you and staying in touch. Thank
you for being with us and sharing your

587
00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:34.960
wisdom, your passion, your heart, all of it. Thank you,

588
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:37.840
thanks so much for the opportunity at
least. If you want to learn more

589
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:42.119
about the work David and his team
at pay Compliment are doing, visit their

590
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:46.000
website. It is simply pay compliment
dot com, pay C O, M,

591
00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:51.039
P, L, I, M
ANDT dot com. Join us next

592
00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:53.280
week when we talk with Mac Pritchard
of Pritcher Communications, who will share what

593
00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:57.800
he's learned to help job seekers utilize
unique ways to find the job they really

594
00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:00.840
want. See then, remember that
work is at least one third of our

595
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:09.679
life, so let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

596
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:15.039
Be sure to tune into Working on
Purpose featuring your host Alice Cortez,

597
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:20.119
every Wednesday at six pm Eastern Time
three pm Pacific Time on the Voice America

598
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:23.239
Empowerment Channel. This week, find
your life's purpose at work.