Embracing Diversity Invites Continuous Ideological Re-Evaluation

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, doctor Elis Cortes.
Join Lai from Dallas, Texas, which

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is home base for me. If
you've been tuning in for a while,

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you know this program is an inspirational
thought leadership platform that advances the conversation.

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I'm living and working with passion,
inspiration, and purpose. I'm committed to

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helping create a world where business and
capitalism are a force for good, constantly

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working to address the immense number of
problems society faces, serving all stakeholders,

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certainly it's employees among them. The
Gallop Organization reports that eighty five percent of

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the global workforce does not want to
go to work on Monday or whenever.

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The shift starts. Let's change that
together and instead make work an enriching part

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of life that expresses meaningful contribution and
helps us grow into our highest selves,

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all in service of the organization's purpose. Each week in these conversations, I

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hope you walk away with something that
changes the way you think or that you

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can immediately put to use. Much
of the content we discuss on this program

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is a reflection of the work I
do. So as you listen, if

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you catch a glimpse of anything I
can do to help, go to my

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website at a Leastcortes dot com and
use the contact me feature to message me

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and let's talk about what's going on
for you and how I might be able

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to help, whether it's consulting on
visioneering for a greater purpose among your stakeholders,

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the vitally Inspired Leadership program, the
online catch Fire learning communities. We're

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speaking for your company or conference at
a rate. I'm glad we're connected,

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and thanks for listening. Now onto
this week's program. With us today for

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the third time is doctor Arthur Cerra
McCauley. He's a licensed clinical psychologist who

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is treating clients for more than thirty
five years. He is a member of

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the American Psychological Association in the Massachusetts
Psychological Association, and he's the author of

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The Triumph of Diversity, Rejoice in
and Benefit From the Interconnectedness of Humankind.

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Also the book called The Soulful Leader, Success with Authenticity, Integrity and Empathy,

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and finally the book The Stress Solution
Using Empathy and cognitive behavioral Therapy to

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reduce anxiety develop resilience, in all
of which we've discussed on this radio program,

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plus many other things that he's done
as well. Today we'll be talking

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about that recent book about the Triumph
over Diversity and what it can teach us

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about how to recognize our prejudices and
bias and learn to be more empathetic and

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curious about anyone who registers as different
from us. He joined us today from

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the Boston area. Doctor Cerrah mccoley, affectionately called doctor c. Welcome back

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to Working on Purpose. Thank you, elis good to talk with you again

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doing this every year. Yeah,
as I said before we got on air,

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I recognize it's because you keep writing
books. So keep at it,

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would you? Yes, Okay,
we need you. So I want to

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start with what I saw as the
premise of your book, and as you

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know, I'm prone to do,
Doctor C I do read the book cover

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to cover. I'm told by many
other other authors that that's not something that

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all the all hosts do, but
for me, that's the reason I host

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the show is to learn and grow. So the premise of your book that

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you wrote it from a broken heart
at the developments in society today, and

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that in it you offer how having
an open mind and open heart and enriches

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lives. Can we start with that? Well, you know, I wrote

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the book at least because I'm just
very disturbed by what's happening in our country

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today. We have the highest rates
of prejudice and hate crimes that we've had

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in many many years, very high
rates of anti Semitism, anti Muslim attitudes,

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and hate crimes, the same thing
through LBGDQ people. And also in

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the workforce. You know, women
say that forty percent of women are discriminated

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in the workplace. Over twenty years
ago, we were ranked high in terms

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of gender equality in the world.
A few years ago we were ranked twenty

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eighth in terms of gender equality.
Now as of twenty nineteen, were ranked

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one hundred and forty nine. So
I'm very disturbed by what's happening in that

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regard. And I'm hoping this book
and you know, the work that you

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do and I do and many others
will help people realize that being prejudiced toward

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others really limits your capacity to grow
when you don't accept diversity, don't embellish

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it, don't realize that people.
If you judge people by the way they

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look, the color of their skin, their religious religion, their ethnic background,

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you're being very shortsighted and you're using
very black and white thinking. You're

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making a decision about somebody based on
their appearance or their orientation. And when

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you look beyond that, and you
know, you know that My work focus

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is a great deal on empathy,
the capacity to understand and respond to the

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unique experience it is of. Another
is that I teach people to utilize empathy,

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to look beyond the surface into the
heart and souls of what another person

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is really made up of. We
know that when that happens, and particularly

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when leaders employ that technique, When
leaders employ empathy and they're authentic, it

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filters down to all people in their
organizations. It does in the educational world,

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it does in the corporate world right
now, I think we don't have

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that in the political world. People
are constantly criticizing each other, calling each

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other names, very uncivil behavior and
unempathic behavior, and that has a profound

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effect on the society. So I
wrote this book for those reasons, because

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I'm trying to find remedies to reverse
what has been a trend for the last

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two to five years. Two things
if I can doctor c before we go

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on is one, I want to
really, of course applaud because, as

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you know, I'm aligned with what
you're doing, which is another reason you

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and I keep coming back together again. And I do think we can do

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so much better as human beings.
We can do better than we are today,

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and so I appreciate that you're giving
us a roadmap to be able to

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do that. And then the second
thing I want to say is for our

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listeners who are listening to you talk
about this so much of what they've heard

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me say before in other programs and
in other episodes and in my programs is

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one way to find our purpose is
to discover what is it about, what

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big hairy problem out there in the
world do we want to help to stand

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to solve? And for you part
of that is it's discrimination, it's not

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appreciating diversity, it's a lack of
empathy. And so it's just such a

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great example, doctor c and what
it looks like when we identify where can

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we be of service and then we
just bring it like you've been bringing it.

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Well, you know, my life's
work, at least, as you

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said, I've been doing this for
over thirty five years, is that to

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help people reduce prejudice, not only
toward others, but beginning within, helping

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them reduce prejudice toward themselves. Because
we all grow up writing a novel about

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ourselves and other people. And I
say a novel because it's based on what

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we hear from other people. If
you grow up in a home where you're

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called names or demeaned, and you
grow up in a home where people are

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making anti Semitic comments or comments about
black people, or comments about Muslim people,

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and they're very derogatory. As a
child, you believe what you hear.

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You not only believe what you hear
about you, you believe what you

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hear about other people. Our responsibility, I believe as adults is that we

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have to make that novel a nonfiction
book we have to find out the facts,

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and this book is very oriented to
it helping people be fact oriented.

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Empathy is fact oriented Empathy slows down
the process and really listens to other people

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to find out what the facts are, not what our preconceived notions have taught

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us from old conditioning. I think
that bears us really going into a little

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bit deeper for our listeners to really
get access to that Doctor C. You

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do remind us in the book that
prejudice and discrimination are learned, They're not

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just part of the fabric of our
being. So just as appreciation for diversity,

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acceptance, and joy in engaging those
who seem different is also learned.

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So I think it's important that that
listeners understand that just because they've grown up

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with these different messages and such,
doesn't mean they have to continue with them

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absolutely at least you know, I
was told when I was a senior in

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high school that I was in college
material and here I am talking to you.

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So we all hear things about ourselves
that, god, thank god,

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we find out are not actually accurate. And it's very important not only about

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other people, but if you have
biases towards yourself, if you have prejudices

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towards yourself, then you don't see
other people clearly because you have blind spots.

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So my work is to help people
see clearly, see the truth internally

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and externally. And right now we're
in a crisis because we're in a time

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in our society where hate crimes are
increasing, not decrease, they're increasing.

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Anti Semitic hate crimes and harassments reached
the record high last year, an increase

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of six hundred and sixty four hete
crimes to the year before just the year

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before. Anti Muslim anti Muslim hate
crimes rose sixty seven in the last three

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years, and an interesting Gallup poll
at least showed that those who hate juice

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thirty times more likely to hate Muslims. Wow, so it's a thing,

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you know that it's that us,
you know, us them, black and

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white thinking, not based on facts, based on fear of not belonging.

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You know, it's cultish. You
know, you and I we've talked about

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group think. You know, it's
that type of thinking that creates that US

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and them dichotomy. If you're not
in the in group, everyone outside of

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that group is an enemy, and
that's what's used to create cults and dogmatic

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thinking. It is what's interesting.
As our listeners here, Brian and Prudence

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are also they're in the chat room
here and they're talking about a question was

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why does every other type get mentioned
except white men when this is spoken of?

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You want to go ahead and address
that. I'm sorry, can you

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say that again? What about white
men? Brian is asking why does every

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other type of every other type get
mentioned except white men when this is spoken

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of, this idea of prejudice and
discrimination. Because in this book, I

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follow the FBI statistics. They're at
the end of the book. So I'm

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following the hate crimes and discrimination that
has been reported and recorded by the FBI,

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And according to the FBI, it's
Jewish people, Muslim people, women,

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LBGTQ, and transgenders more than anyone
else, ninety six percent increase in

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hate crimes. So I'm going by
statistics and also my experience doing excellent deeple

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white men are experienced prejudice at some
point, well, of course, but

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not to the reason that these folks
do. Mm hmm. Very well said,

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And Brian, thanks for the question. Well, so one of the

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things that you do beautifully in the
book, and that I really appreciate because

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this gets to Okay, so we
do have a problem. I think you've

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convinced us all that we have a
problem here and what are we going to

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do about it? And one of
the things that you offer, which I

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think is a delicious way to go
about this, is this idea of deliberative

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pulling, and you describe that as
a random representative sample of people engaged in

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deliberation on current issues through small group
discussions with experts to create more understanding and

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thoughtful, reflective opinion. And it
brings individuals of various perspectives, including those

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from opposite views on many subjects,
to have civil dialogue on many political issues.

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I think that idea is so important
to presence for our listeners because you

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say in the book about how we
tend to hang out with those that are

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like us well to purposely put ourselves
into a deliberative polling situation like this.

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I just see that as greatly expanding
our empathy, our curiosity, our understanding,

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our connection. Will you say more
about how does it work and why

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does it work so well? Well? Deliberate polling is of swept through Europe

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many countries they're using it, and
we have had experiments here in this country

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as well. One was called America. In one room where they brought for

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two days, brought together die had
Democrats and die hard Republicans. And what

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was done was they brought in experts. For instance, they brought an expert

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scientist on climate change, and they
sat down in people and they gave people

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articles to read, and they had
open discussions about it, and the scientists

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was showing them once again the facts. Then they had discussions of other issues

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immigration, should we build a wall? They brought in experts on that,

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they brought experts on the economy.
What happened was they've also listening to people's

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different perspectives and the experts were pointing
out where they were making distortions and they

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were not based on facts. They
might have heard it on social media or

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in the news, but it was
not fact oriented. What happened at the

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end of two days in both sides
meeting, seventy percent of the people said

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they changed their minds. Seventy percent. Amazing. This is what happens in

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my communication and leadership groups at least. And one of the reasons, you

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know, as I mentioned in the
group, that diversity training has not worked

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so well in the corporate world,
is doesn't last long enough, you know,

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imagine this American one room was two
days, two whole days. My

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groups meet every week. They're mainly
people in the business world. They but

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they're you know, half of the
group are from other countries who have come

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here. They've immigrated, they're here. So I have clients from from Japan,

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from China, from Australia, from
England, from Spain, from Italy,

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from Iran, and from India.
And when those people walk into a

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room, and then there's the rest
of the group is white Americans. These

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are all people who are going to
become Americans, or some of them already

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are. But you know, there's
been studies that show when people see a

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face that they're not familiar with,
they kind of repel a little bit,

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They get a little anxious, and
so many of the incredible studies have shown

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that they call stranger studies, when
you reach out to somebody you don't know

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or doesn't look like you, almost
in high percentages, people will say that

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they enjoyed the interaction and they found
that that person was quite different than what

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they imagined. In these groups,
that's what happens. But we meet week

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after week after week, so in
twelve consecutive weeks, so we get time

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to know each other. And people
ultimately value people for their character, not

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the color of their skin, their
ethnicity, or their religion. Well,

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I am one of those kind of
people. I'm sure you probably know this

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about me, doctor Cy, and
I don't know if you remember it,

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but my students also call me doctor
Cy. But so we have a little

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bit in common there. But I
love talking to new people. I was

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just driving in a suburb in Dallas
yesterday and I stopped. Of course,

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whenever I stop into a restaurant,
I always stop at the bar because then

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I could talk to people. No
one is safe, right, And the

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more different they look from me,
somehow, the more interesting they are to

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me. What can I learn from
them? They have a different vantage point

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of the world, they see it
differently, and I'm hungry to have access

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to that. So maybe I'm weird, doctor c. But I do tend

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to I'm drawn to what's different from
me. I don't think you're weird.

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I think you're compassionate and empathic,
and I think you love people. That's

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my impression of you, which is
what if every human being was like you

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the country would turn around tomorrow.
Well, I'm in for it. Well

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along those lines then, I mean, this is one other thing I wanted

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to say a little bit more about. You've already served it up, but

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I think it's so important for our
listeners to get this is you do talk

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about how this book builds on your
previous ones, especially on empathy, and

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you talk about how empathy opens the
door to the commonalities of humanity, like

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we're talking about here, me,
me, reaching across the aisle, and

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that it also removes our lens to
see fear or see people that are different

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from us as being fearful. The
reason I want you to talk more about

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that is because I think a lot
of people don't understand the power of empathy.

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They still see it as squishy and
soft. Yes, and excuse me.

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I think people can confuse empathy with
sympathy. Empathy sympathy rushes into console

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based on identifying with someone else.
Because if you went through a divorce and

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I say, oh, I've gone
through divorce, I know exactly what you're

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going through, Well I really don't, because you may have had a different

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experience than I with the spouse.
But empathy. Sympathy assumes empathy is objective,

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it's fact oriented, and it allows
us to see beyond the surface and

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see who other people really are,
what's their character, and empathy is the

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heart of diversity. And diversity people
oftentimes don't realize increases creativity, productivity,

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and profitability empathic organizations. I mean, if you get ten white men or

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ten white women, or ten black
women or ten Jewish women in one group,

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and they're going to just side what
the market demands and what we should

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bring to market, you're preaching to
the choir. You don't get many diverse

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ideas. When you have a group
of people like the group that I described,

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where you have so many people from
very different backgrounds, the whole world

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opens up. You're now you're talking
and you're looking at the world in the

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marketplace, internationally, not just in
your little world, in your small world.

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I like to differential, differentiate between
small world thinking and large world.

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And that's what happens when you have
diversity. Empathy allows people again not to

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go by the face, the strange
face, or the strange look or the

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strange clothes, but talk enough,
listen enough to ascertain the facts to see

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who the person is and when that
happens, when that happens in an organization,

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when that happens in business or in
education, and when it even happens

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in a family, it's infectious.
It trickles down, just like when you

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have a toxic leader. I'm sure
you as well. You know we've consulted

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to corporations. I can tell that
the demeanor of a leader. When I

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start to walk into a business,
you know, you're greeted by the receptionist

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who seems rather cold. I walk
by two. This is actually experienced.

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I had a few weeks ago.
I walked by a couple of two or

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three men in three piece suits.
They don't say hello, they don't say

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good morning, they just keep walking. Then I go in and meet the

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CFO and the CEO, and it's
the same attitude. Why is that Because

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when you have leaders that are toxic, when you have leaders that are blamers,

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when you have leaders that don't accept
responsibility for their own flaws and mistakes

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and allow themselves to be vulnerable but
also allow their staff or their workers to

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be vulnerable, you don't have an
expansive ideas. These leaders lead through aggression

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and fear and they destroy the spirit
of people who work for them. The

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amazing thing that I've learned in the
corporate world is when you have leaders like

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that, even if a person's bonus
is dependent on that person, they will

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undermine them, undermine them unconsciously because
they don't like them and they feel devalued

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and demean by them. On a
consistent basis, When you have someone who

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is leading with empathy and brings in
a diverse group of people, you know

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that that person appreciates difference, that
person is not afraid of difference. That

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person wants to learn from your different
experiences. Isn't that exciting? That's the

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infectious part. Yes, and I
am. I totally stand to support the

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same thing. And we want to
grab our next break, our first break

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here, and I want to hear
more after the break about how it is

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you make those conversations happen. So
listeners, stay with us. I'm your

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host, Alis Cortes. We've been
on the yeir with doctor Arthur Sierra mccoley,

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who is a licensed clinical psychologist who
has been treating clients for more than

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thirty five years. He is the
author of the book The Triumph of Diversity.

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Rejoice in and benefit from the interconnectedness
of humankind, and also the book

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called The Soulful Leader. Success with
Authenticity, Integrity, and Empathy just two

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of his more recent books. He
judged today from Boston. We'll be right

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back. Elise Cortes is a speaker
and engagement and development catalyst. She designs

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00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:29.400
and delivers professional development, leadership and
engagement workshops and can bring her expertise to

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your organization. She will help ignite
meaningful development within your workforce that will increase

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employee engagement, performance and retention.
To learn more or to invite Elise to

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00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:45.039
speak to your organization, please visit
her at www dot Elise Coortes dot com.

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00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:48.519
She would welcome the opportunity to help
get your employees working on purpose.

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00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.640
This is working on Purpose with Elise
Cortes. To reach our program today,

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00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:07.680
send an email to a lease Alise
at a Leasecortes dot com. Now back

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to working on purpose. Thanks for
staying with us, and welcome back to

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working on purpose. If you're just
joining us. My guest is doctor Arthur

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Cierra McCauley, a licensed clinical psychologist
who has been treating clients for more than

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thirty five years. He is a
member of the American Psychological Association and the

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Massachusetts Psychological Association. Doctor C,
as he's affectionally called, is the author

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of the Triumph of Diversity, Rejoice
In and Benefit From the Interconnectedness of Humankind

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and The Soulful Leader, Success with
Authenticity, Integrity, and Empathy, just

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two of his more recent books among
many. I'm your host, Doctor Elise

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Cortes. So, doctor C,
before we get into some of the programs

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that you do, I do want
to surface something really important for our listeners

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that is probably something they may be. It's just so much the fabric of

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their being that they won't be able
to distinguish if we don't do this first.

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So you make an important point in
your book that there is a tendency

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for all of us to want to
socialize within our own tribe, if you

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will, and that what we need
to do instead is to seek the company

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of others from different face or heritage, etc. So, first, why

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do we tend to seek our own
tribe? Well, I think we seek

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our own tribe because of familiarity and
because we feel safe when people look and

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seem and act like us. And
that's normal, that's human. If you

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come from a particular background. If
you're Hispanic, or you're Black, or

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I'm Italian, you might have a
certain affinity for those cultures, and that's

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understandable, but don't block off the
other cultures, you know. I interviewed

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an Indian engineer here, a lovely
man, and he was telling me,

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you know that he lectures to different
Indian groups and different businesses because what he's

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trying to do is get them to
expand and move out of their own group.

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And this isn't specific to Indians.
I mean, we've all done this

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in our own little groups. But
what he said to me, and I

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thought it was profound. He said, when I lecture, I tell my

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Indian colleagues, you want their money, but you don't want their people,

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and that's not fair. And I've
heard this. I mean, I have

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two young men who own several restaurants
in this area and they're Brazilian and they

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get very mad at their relatives because
and their extended family because in this particular

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city outside of Boston, there's a
Brazilian sort of section and most of their

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relatives stay there. They speak Portuguese, they watch Brazilian TV, and they

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don't have a lot of interest in
interacting with people outside that circle. And

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these two young men who are very
much appreciative of being in America and they're

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thriving here with their restaurants. They're
trying to get their people, their choir,

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to extend themselves and learn the music
of some other groups as they have

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and they've seen how they've grown from
diversity. I mean, they have to

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greet people coming into a restaurant.
They can't only be serving Brazilian people.

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They have to serve everybody, and
so do we in any business, in

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corporation or educational institution. Okay,
that helps bring it alive for all of

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us that we tend to seek what
we already know. It's comfortable for us.

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One of the next things I want
us to get to is so then

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we would say, well, doesn't
it help if we just do some maybe

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diversity training or something or to help
the bias. Doesn't that work? And

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you, of course talk in your
book that it doesn't. So will you

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say a little bit more about why
that doesn't work before we talk about some

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of the programs that you do that
do well. The continuity is critical,

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you know, the diversity training has
just been too short in the business world.

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It's helped to some degree, but
it's sort of like, you know,

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when you have a motivational speaker come
into a business or a corporation.

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People have the day off, they
listen to the speaker, they find things

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interesting, and then you do the
follow up study six months later, and

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they highly remember what he said,
except that he told or she told some

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jokes that were funny, and they
enjoyed that morning of that afternoon with their

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colleagues. Because that's human nature.
If you read a book once and you

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get quizzed on it, without reading
it a second time or studying it a

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little bit more, you don't retain
much. So diversity training has clearly been

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too short. The Harvard did a
study in the Business School and they were

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trying to figure out why the diversity
training didn't really result in people acting very

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differently, and again they found that
they didn't really come up with a clear

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reason. When I read the study, I thought, based on my own

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experience, that it just didn't last
long enough. It was like two hours

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and two and a half hour,
two hours one week, and then two

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weeks later they did another hour and
that was it. So if you don't

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have continuity you're not going to get
the benefits of diversity training because a lack

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of diversity creates fear. Fear produces
negative brain changes and reduces our ability to

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think creatively. So it limits,
in essence, anyone's potential to unravel the

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uneasiness that people have and not just
giving them educational information, but when you

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engage in a group, you know, and the kind of groups that I'm

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running, and I'm not complimenting myself, anybody could do this is we're actually

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talking to each other about backgrounds and
people are being educated. I told the

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story, you know, in the
beginning of the group about this man who

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came to me from the Midwest,
Michigan, and he said, oh,

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I'm so glad that I'm seeing you. And he was referred to me by

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his HR department because he didn't like
working with Indian engineers. He went to

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HR and was complaining and they sent
him to me for consultation. He said,

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I'm so glad to be seeing you
because my last psychologist in Michigan was

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Jewish. I said, okay,
what didn't you like about the Jewish psychologists

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and he said, I don't know, you know, I don't know.

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There were no Jews in our town, and I never met any Jewish people,

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and I just felt uncomfortable. I'm
so glad that you're a Christian.

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I said, how do you know
I'm Christian? He said, well,

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you're name Siera McCauley. You must
be Catholic or a Christian of some sort.

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I said, well, what if
I'm Jewish? He said, you

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can't be Jewish? I said,
do you know this forty eight thousand Italian

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Jews in Italy? Right now?
I said, do you know that eleven

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hundred Italian Jews died in Auschwitz?
And all of a sudden there was a

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dead silence. He felt very uncomfortable. He says, now, you're making

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me feel uncomfortable. I said,
I'm not trying to make you feel uncomfortable.

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I'm just trying to help you understand
there are Italian Jews. I said,

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now, when you came in here, you were excited about seeing me.

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Seven or eight, ten minutes into
this session, I can see that

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you're feeling differently and he said,
yeah, no, I'm embarrassed. I

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said, am I a different human
being? He said no, I guess

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not. To make a long story
short, we went on meeting for eighteen

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months he joined one of my groups, and individually I knew that he had

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goodness inside him. This fella,
he opened up and he learned more and

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more, and at the end of
our last session, he said to me,

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doctor C, I never you know, I have a home office.

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That's where we're talking from right now
at least. And he said, you

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know, I never see your wife
and kids in the yard or anything,

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even in the summer. And he
said, it's summer. And I said,

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well, how do you know I
have a wife and kids. He

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goes, oh my god, Now
you're telling me you're an Italian gay Jew

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and that's what I have for a
psychologists. And I said, look,

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does it matter? And he said, you know what, Doc, I'm

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all past that. It doesn't matter
at all. And he was light about

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it. He was kidding. And
I thought, that's the triumph of diversity,

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and the work that you do is
really powerful, doctor C. And

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if I may say that I disagree
with you, of course, respectfully,

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I don't think any just anybody can
do your work. And so if we

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can. Before we go our next
break here, I want you to share

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a little bit about these leadership and
communication groups where you help participants understand how

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they can develop prejudices based on their
ignorance of those they demonize. That's just

405
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so important that we recognize that or
those who are not familiar with So would

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you say a little bit more about
how you do this work, what's involved,

407
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:00.039
how do people come, if you
will, to the other side.

408
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:06.480
Well, you know, it's interesting
particularly with men, because for some reason,

409
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:10.880
many times when I get referred a
man from the corporate world, whether

410
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.599
it's a CEO or a CFO or
just an engineer or whatever, I get

411
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:19.440
told by HI, they don't have
the empathy gene. Yeah, And in

412
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:22.319
my long career, at least,
I've never been told that about a woman.

413
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:29.039
So, and it's interesting because my
daughter, our daughter is a kindergarten

414
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:32.599
teacher, and she will tell you, and I've interviewed other kidnergarten teachers too,

415
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:33.960
and they will tell you. When
the boys and girls are out on

416
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:38.400
the playground in kindergarten, the boys
are just empathic as empathic as the girls.

417
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:44.599
What happens as time goes on they
learn their role, empathy goes underground.

418
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.680
And in these groups I have to
bring it out, you know.

419
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.200
I try to teach people that I'm
not so focused on what's wrong with you.

420
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:55.200
I'm trying to uncover what's always been
right with you. Everybody has the

421
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:59.880
capacity for empathy. Empathy neurons are
in every brain of every human being,

422
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.680
but for a lot of males,
some females too, but more males.

423
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:08.240
Generally speaking, it goes underground because
their model, their fathers don't like it.

424
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.039
You know, my daughter was telling
me of a little boy that she

425
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:15.400
said, he's probably the most empathic
boy in my class. And his father

426
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:19.119
came in and he went to hold
the dad's hand, and the dad roughly

427
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:23.359
pushed the hand away and goes,
we don't want to hold the hands now,

428
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.519
she said to me, She goes, Dad, By the time that

429
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.440
the little boy's in the fourth grade, he won't be his empathic. It's

430
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:32.319
going to go underground. He's going
to have to see you when he's forty.

431
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.000
Yeah, that's exactly right. So
such important work to be doing in

432
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:41.400
the world. And talk about making
a difference with your one precious life,

433
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.559
Doctor Cee. I really appreciate who
you are and how you're helping us all

434
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:51.480
get more access to the idea of
empathy, of curiosity, of connection.

435
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:56.279
So important well, I'm very thankfully
you're having me on again and we can

436
00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.680
spread the word. You know,
I think this needs to be movement at

437
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:06.359
least, because we really are facing
difficult times. I mean, obviously even

438
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:10.640
more difficult with what's happened with the
virus. But you know, even now,

439
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:12.799
you can see the blaming. You
know, this is a this is

440
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.400
a foreign virus. It's not an
American virus. I mean, how silly

441
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:19.599
we got to we have to blame
somebody. You know, it came from

442
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:23.000
another country. It could have come
from this country and gone to another country.

443
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.960
Rather than blaming, why not come
together and work together? Why not

444
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.720
learn from other countries what they're doing. Why why do we have to be

445
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:36.079
blaming? Why do we have to
be demeaning? It's affecting the world,

446
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.240
you know. I start this I
start this book with a quote, it's

447
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:44.599
my favorite quote of all from Thomas
Paine. My my religion is to do

448
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:49.319
good. My my country is the
world. And I think I think that,

449
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:53.880
I mean that summarizes a feeling of
we're all together. Maybe we look

450
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:59.319
a little different, but we're together. We should be together rather than separating.

451
00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:02.720
We need to be in a time
where rather than people ostracizing and separating,

452
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:06.599
and you have to pick a side. We need to come together and

453
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:10.119
see the commonality of all of us, not just Americans. But you know,

454
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:13.720
that's one of my concerns too,
that we don't seem to be caring

455
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:16.759
about people outside of our country.
What about the rest of the world.

456
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:21.960
We all came from somewhere else,
by the way, and when we don't

457
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:27.720
care about other people, eventually that
creates a kind of isolation and attention within

458
00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:32.440
oneself, because then you become afraid
of other people and the polarization just increases.

459
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:36.880
Aligned on that, doctor, see, let's scribe our last break here

460
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:39.440
already. Time flies when you're having
fun. I'm doctor Lee's Cortez, your

461
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:42.799
host. We are on the air
with doctor Arthur Sheer mccouley, who is

462
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:45.880
a licensed clinical psychologist who has been
treating clients for more than thirty five years.

463
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:50.720
He's the author of the book entitled
The Triumph of Diversity, Rejoice in

464
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:54.279
and Benefit from the Interconnectedness of Humankind
and a book entitled The Soulful Leader,

465
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:59.319
Success with Authenticity, Integrity and Empathy, just two of his more recent books.

466
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.480
From Boston. Stee Wood's After the
Break we're going to talk about pathological

467
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:29.039
certainty. Alise Cortes is a speaker
and engagement and development catalyst. She designs

468
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:34.480
and delivers professional development, leadership and
engagement workshops and can bring her expertise to

469
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.559
your organization. She will help ignite
meaningful development within your workforce that will increase

470
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:44.400
employee engagement, performance and retention.
To learn more or to invite Elise to

471
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:50.160
speak to your organization, please visit
her at www dot Elise Coortes dot com.

472
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.599
She would welcome the opportunity to help
get your employees working on purpose.

473
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:05.799
This is working on Purpose with a
lease Cortes. To reach our program today,

474
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:12.039
send an email to a lease Ali
at a Leasecortes dot com. Now

475
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:21.840
back to working on purpose. Thanks
for staying with us, and welcome back

476
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:23.559
to working on purpose. If you're
just tuning in. My guest is doctor

477
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:28.519
Arthur Cia mccouley, a licensed clinical
psychologist who has been treating clients for more

478
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:31.239
than thirty five years. He is
a member of the American Psychological Association in

479
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:36.880
the Massachusetts Psychological Association. Doctor c
is the author of the book The Triumph

480
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:40.000
of Diversity. Rejoice in and Benefit
from the Connected interconnectedness of humankind, which

481
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:45.320
we're discussing today. I'm your host, doctor Lease Cortes. So as I

482
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:50.840
as I said just before the break
listeners, I came across a phrase in

483
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.800
this book that I have never heard
before, but I find it quite riveting,

484
00:34:54.440 --> 00:35:00.599
pathological certainty. So would you talk
to us about what that, why

485
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:05.159
it's important in what we can do
about it? No, pathological certainty really

486
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:08.679
is a characteristic that toxic leaders have. At least it's the belief that I'm

487
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:14.440
right all the time. It's entering
into categories that you really have no knowledge

488
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:17.679
of, but you insist that you
are the expert. As spouses, they

489
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:23.400
drive people crazy. They drive their
spouses and their children crazy because they can't

490
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:29.519
be vulnerable. They're very insecure,
so they have a grandiose tendency. They

491
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:34.039
don't give answers that indicate a vulnerability
that I don't know, or I'll check

492
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:37.840
it out with somebody who does know. They don't tend to use good consultants.

493
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.559
They like to have people around them
that are more parasitic. They're more

494
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.599
make them look good, you know, their toxic leaders. Blaming leaders tend

495
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:53.480
to be pathological in that regard and
often they drastically hurt the spirit of an

496
00:35:53.559 --> 00:36:00.239
organization, whether it's political or corporate, because their influence that goes down down.

497
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:02.639
They influence people from the top down. You know, there's a number

498
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:08.960
of studies now that talk about the
desensitization of prejudice. Several studies have demonstrated

499
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:15.119
that frequent exposure to hate speech online
or in person desensitizes those listening to forms

500
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:21.480
of verbal violence against particular groups.
So when we hear that it doesn't matter

501
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.239
if a leader talks this way or
that, yes, it does this exposure

502
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:30.440
it lessens the perceived suffering of those
that are being the object of hate crimes

503
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:36.400
because that kind of language encourages hate
rather than bringing people together. And some

504
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:40.760
of these people, some people with
pathological certainty, have what we call personality

505
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:46.199
disorders. You know, that pathological
certainty may never change. That's why leaders

506
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:50.920
who are toxic, I mean,
oftentimes they have to be let go.

507
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:54.679
The board has to decide whether it's
worth having a person that leads that way.

508
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:59.920
Unfortunately, if you have a family
or a parent who leads that way,

509
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:04.320
it's horrific for the people living with
them, and especially children, because

510
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:09.039
it's a horrible model. I have
encountered several of those people in my work

511
00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:14.159
developing leaders and consulting with organizations,
and so I know what you're talking about,

512
00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:20.000
and I have seen them removed from
the organization. Is there for the

513
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.519
so that we can at least give
some hope here? Is there a way

514
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:30.119
to help those people? Well?
You know that's why I said yes and

515
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:34.719
no. Some people who lead that
way, when they're educated, if it's

516
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:38.639
not an embedded part of their personality, embedded part of their culture, they're

517
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:43.960
open to changing. Not easily.
It takes a long time. Other people

518
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.920
they're just not open to hearing anything
anything, but they're right, and they

519
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:52.199
want you to idealize them. If
they're not idealizing them, you're not part

520
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.679
of the you're not part of the
group. So they're the ones who are

521
00:37:55.679 --> 00:38:00.519
offered firing people. They're known for
firing people people and go because once you

522
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:06.679
differ with them, you're not around
very long. You know, John Deane,

523
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:08.800
You remember John Deane with Richard Nixon. And I believe this is a

524
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:12.960
true story. I didn't hear it
from John Dene, but I but I

525
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:16.000
read it in an article once and
it always stuck with me during during when

526
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:20.800
he was in the cabinet with Richard
Nixon. Richard Nixon began when the new

527
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:22.159
cabinet came in, he said,
I want everybody to be open. I

528
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:25.559
want everybody to ask questions, and
I want you to feel afraid. You

529
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:28.920
know, if you have a difference
of opinion, I want to know about

530
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:32.239
it. So John Dene spoke up
and had a few comments different with the

531
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:37.320
president, and then when the meeting
was over, the President Nixon said to

532
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:42.519
John Dene, you need to stay
behind. Everybody left it. He looked

533
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:45.440
at John Dene he goes, don't
you ever contradict me again in front of

534
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:49.280
those people, and he laced into
him. So it's sort of like the

535
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:52.639
mission statement of a corporation, Right, they all read nicely, but are

536
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:57.639
they leading that way? Are they
really are they really part of the mission

537
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:00.719
statement or is it just a statement
in the front of the building that makes

538
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:04.239
them look good. Is it just
to seek a certain image for the company

539
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:12.079
and it isn't really followed through.
So this is so powerful because many so

540
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:15.000
much of the work that I do
doctor c when I'm inside organizations is to

541
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:19.599
really help create purpose inspired leaders and
meaning infuse cultures because a lot of people,

542
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:21.440
as I said the begin the show, don't want to go to work

543
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:23.039
on Monday. There's a reason for
that, and part of the reason is

544
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:29.119
they do work for a leader like
this. Yeah. You also use another

545
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:31.480
phrase later on in the book,
sadistic leaders. Is that what you were

546
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:36.280
talking about before? Yeah, I
mean sadistic leaders. And you know,

547
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.880
I've said in the book, and
I've settled throughout my career and this is

548
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:43.719
my experience, and I would guess
it has been yours too, because I

549
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:46.960
know your very experienced and have met
many of these type of people as well

550
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:52.360
as many good people. Sadistic leaders
tend to blame, they don't accept responsibility,

551
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:57.119
and they do tend to have what
I call pathological certainty. They're never

552
00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.280
in doubt. They always know.
They never say I don't know. Therefore

553
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.360
there are people who work for them
can't say I don't know either. So

554
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.239
people are always saying absolutely, yeah, we can get that, we can

555
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.159
get that to market soon. You
know, everybody's walking around with this false

556
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:15.360
sense of greatness and they know that
it's not true, and they shut us

557
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:20.320
sometimes when they hear their leaders say
certain things to investors and especially to Wall

558
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:22.440
street because they know it's not true
and they know they're going to pay a

559
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:29.840
penalty eventually. Well, so I
think that was important to talk about because

560
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:32.960
one, if we can at least
distinguish that that's not acceptable and that's not

561
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:36.480
what we're what we're going for in
life. And then if you are working

562
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.559
for somebody like that, then recognize
that that's what you're what you're dealing with.

563
00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:44.199
And if there's a way to address
that or you know, find another

564
00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:46.920
place to play in the sandbox,
then so be it. But I think

565
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:51.239
it's important that we recognize we've been
talking so much about what's healthy, but

566
00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:53.840
to also recognize the other end of
that spectrum. So thank you for filling

567
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:58.679
us in there. You're welcome.
So for that, we're coming close.

568
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:00.559
But I do want to do something
kind of interesting and fun that I think

569
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:05.519
you did delightfully in your book that
I think will help our listeners open themselves

570
00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:07.719
too to what we're trying to do
here at Doctor c And So what I

571
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:13.400
want to do is I want to
invite them into imagine, especially from any

572
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.440
vantage point, any religion that they
subscribe to, that they've been they've grown

573
00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:21.199
up with, that they're connected to
and listen to this. What you have

574
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.639
to say about this from the vantage
point that wouldn't it be interesting if we

575
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:29.039
could do this with everything, we
can still know what our religion is and

576
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:32.880
we then hear from other people about
their perspective of their faith and other cultures,

577
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:37.039
etc. So by religion specifically,
you have a part in your book

578
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:43.519
where Siri Karm's description comes into play
that he says all religions lead to the

579
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:47.000
same truth, which is God.
And he says Sikhism teaches that each religion

580
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:52.079
contains the whole truth, but focuses
on a different aspect of the truth.

581
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.320
And you go on to listen about
four different truths. I think this is

582
00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:00.400
really really useful and interesting in what
could open the minds of people. So

583
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:02.679
if we can go through the four
that I sat that I found and let

584
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:07.039
you weigh in on this and the
beauty of what they bring, I think

585
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:12.039
it could be fun. So you
mentioned that he mentions Islam focuses on humility.

586
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.519
Yes, will you say more about
that? Well, you know,

587
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:22.360
it's interesting because I interviewed several Muslims
for this book and he's absolutely right.

588
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:25.320
And I have to give Siri Kalm
who's a very interesting Sikh leader in this

589
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:30.159
community, credit for these ideas because
they really came from him in my meeting

590
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:37.320
with him and his friend, a
Catholic priest, father and Juddy, and

591
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:45.000
I realized as as I interviewed Muslim
leaders, you know, their focus on

592
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:49.559
humility is that's why they're bowing,
just like Sirih karmasays, that's why seeks

593
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.079
we're white, because they're trying to
be pure in a sense of inviting everybody

594
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:57.400
in and Muslims. You know,
I was talking to a Muslim leader who

595
00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:00.159
actually lectures quite a bit in the
Boston area, and he said, you

596
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:05.000
know, probably what people don't realize. And I read the Quran twice before

597
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.000
I met with him, because I
wanted to make sure I knew the facts

598
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:10.519
myself as much as I could ass
obtain them. And he said to me,

599
00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:15.840
you know, we can't hate Christians
because Jesus is in the Quran,

600
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:20.079
he said. We can't hate Jews
because Moses is in the Quran, he

601
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:22.119
said. And in the Koran,
we are taught to go out and make

602
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:27.199
friends with people of other faiths.
We're taught to reach out and to be

603
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:30.800
humble that we don't have all the
answers. And I thought that was very

604
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:37.039
impressive because these leaders, in this
particular Muslim leader in this area, he

605
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:42.719
lectures to Catholic churches, Protestant churches, Jewish synagogues. He wants to bring

606
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:46.000
people together. And in this interfaith
movement, I just I had not been

607
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:51.599
exposed to interfaith discussions, and I
just found it amazing. At least I

608
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:55.159
just, you know, incomes this
I have a Buddhist statue out in my

609
00:43:55.199 --> 00:44:00.519
front lawn, and incomes this Catholic
priest and this Sikh and them, and

610
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.159
they're dressed differently, and they're looking
at the Buddhist statue and they looked at

611
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:06.480
me and they said they didn't know. They hadn't met me yet. They

612
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:08.480
said, oh, I guess this
is an interfaith home. And they came

613
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:13.360
in and we had this great discussion
and they're so tolerant of each other.

614
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:16.320
And one of the things that I
learned too about the interfaith movement is that

615
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:23.119
inter faith empathy places emphasis not only
understanding different religious perspectives, but also regardless

616
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:28.519
of religions, they focus on unique
people. You know, they don't greet

617
00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:32.199
we don't greet people of other faiths
by hello Buddha, Laho Buddhist or a

618
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:37.639
low Muslim or hello Jewel or low
Christian within their faith and their unique beings.

619
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.639
And that's what and that's what they're
trying to do in their movement.

620
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.280
They're trying to say, we're all
unique and sirih Kalm, this wonderful seek

621
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:50.079
and teacher is saying, we all
believe that there is one God. We

622
00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:53.199
have different branches of the tree to
get there. But we're even within our

623
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:58.280
own religions, we're different. We're
not all the same. What a black

624
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:00.920
commentator said the other night, he
said, sometimes I find it funny.

625
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:05.000
He's a political commentator, and he
said, sometimes I find it funny when

626
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:07.360
they say the black vote, the
black vote. He said, you know,

627
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:08.960
all black people aren't the same,
by the way, he said,

628
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:13.320
and then they talk about the Hispanical, the Hispanic vote. The Hispanics are

629
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:15.599
going to vote this way, he
said, We like one Hispanic big group

630
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:19.679
and we all decide which way we're
going to vote. We actually have some

631
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:23.599
uniqueness within us. I thought that
was important to understand and emphasize it is

632
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:29.039
it really is and quickly for our
listeners here. So because I were running

633
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.320
out of time, but got maybe
three more minutes left. So for the

634
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:37.199
sake of this idea of the interfaith
discussion here, Siri Harm then goes on

635
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:42.559
to say that Judaeaism focuses on understanding. Can you say something about that?

636
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:49.519
Yes, on understanding, And I
think Judaism focus is a great deal on

637
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:54.159
meaning. I mean, hmm,
you know, the meaning of life and

638
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:59.480
very and Jewish people tend to be
that way too. I mean, it's

639
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:05.280
interesting because I have several Israeli patients
now and they really they're very interesting because

640
00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:09.760
they like to dialogue, they like
to debate, you know, really try

641
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:14.239
to get to the facts and they'll
take a position, but then they'll alter

642
00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:16.880
it depending on what you say.
And it is very interesting. I've learned

643
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:21.079
a great deal. I learned a
great deal in one of my clients and

644
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:24.519
Israelly. He's just very open,
you know, he talks about you know,

645
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:28.840
he says, one of the difficulties
is as being in Israeli, we

646
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:30.480
don't want to talk about the Palestinians. We don't want to talk about the

647
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:34.440
Arabs. He said. When I
was in school, we could study every

648
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.119
language but Arabic. And he said, and there are our cousins and our

649
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:40.039
neighbors. He said, when you
think of it, how silly it is.

650
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:44.719
You know, he's a man that
was raised in a certain way.

651
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:50.079
In fact, his father was a
friend of Schendler, you know from Shendla's

652
00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:53.800
list. Yes, he actually brought
me a picture of Schendler and his father

653
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:59.480
because his father was a principal in
Israel. But he's seeing through the dogma

654
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:02.239
that he's been exposed to, and
he's seeing that both groups have something to

655
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:07.320
say and both groups could unite.
But if we don't want to talk to

656
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:09.719
each other, or we're told we
can't talk to each other because that other

657
00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:15.239
group is evil, nothing happens.
Mm hmmmm hmm. That's why I thought

658
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:17.360
this was such a beautiful thing to
open up for our listeners, is imagine

659
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:20.679
if you could be in that space. And it kind of goes back to

660
00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:25.280
that topic we had before about what
was that that something about polling? What

661
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:30.360
do you call that deliberated polling?
Yes, all right, so we're getting

662
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:32.400
close, but can you just say
a couple of words about the focus that

663
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:37.800
He says that Christianity's focused on unconditional
love, which is evidenced by God's sacrifice

664
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:40.039
for his only son for all of
us. Yes, maybe a minute on

665
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:44.840
that. Yeah, I think here
she's spoken to he's focusing on Jesus on

666
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:50.159
the cross, that he sacrificed himself
for us. So it's very obvious that

667
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:54.239
that happened, and he indicated Jesus
as saying, I have unconditional love for

668
00:47:54.280 --> 00:48:00.920
all human beings because I'm sacrificing myself
for this purpose. Mmm mm hmmm.

669
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:04.320
I think that just opens something when
you can start to recognize that they that

670
00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:08.079
these faiths focus on a different aspect
of truth. I just feel like that

671
00:48:08.199 --> 00:48:13.000
just opens so much. So here
we are toward the end already, doctor

672
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:15.880
c. It's amazing to me.
But I want to finish with if with

673
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.840
this idea what I consider to be
the promise of your book, And so

674
00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:22.400
if you want to live in our
diverse world with ease and joy, you

675
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:27.400
must we all must, You say, reevaluate the ideas we accepted based on

676
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:31.079
being naive children, observing biased adults. You say, your future, our

677
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:36.199
future depends on making this effort.
Commit to a journey of uncovering the truth

678
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:38.559
about yourself and others, and you
will be part of making a world based

679
00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:43.639
on compassion for all, rather than
a world based on small minded perspectives that

680
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.960
limit the potential of many for the
favor of a few. The more we

681
00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:51.079
encounter others who see different on the
who seem different on the surface, the

682
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:55.079
more we find out who we really
are. That is stunningly beautiful. Thank

683
00:48:55.119 --> 00:49:00.519
you, Thank you very much.
So here we are toward the end.

684
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:04.039
I just want to give you the
chance to close. You know, this

685
00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:07.440
is a thought leadership platform that's designed
to advance the conversation on meeting passion,

686
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:12.719
inspiration, purpose in life and at
work. In about say thirty seconds,

687
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:15.320
what would you like to leave our
listeners with. Well, I'd like to

688
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:19.239
leave the listeners with the fact that
empathy and the acceptance of diversity, it's

689
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:22.480
going to expand your mind, give
you a greater sense of ease in the

690
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:27.320
world, in addition to causing a
positive brain change, which will absolutely result

691
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:31.559
in a highest spirited and successful company, family, community. But it'll also

692
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:37.119
be part of reversing the dangerous trend
in our society of prejudice and hate.

693
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.559
Beautiful way to finish, Doctor Sara
McCauley, thank you again for coming back,

694
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:44.679
staying in my world, doing the
important work that you're doing and helping

695
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:46.800
make the world a better place.
Thank you, Thank you very much,

696
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:52.079
Elise, thank you very very much. I appreciate it very very humbling for

697
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:54.760
me to talk with you. You're
such a bright person and such a great

698
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:58.679
interviewer, and I know you're on
the same path and trying to do the

699
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:00.679
same thing. So thank you very
much. I sure am. Thank you.

700
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:04.920
Listeners, you want to learn more
about doctor Arthur Seer McCauley, his

701
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:07.920
work or any of his books,
the best place to start is probably his

702
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:13.880
website is personal website which is balance
your Success dot com. Last week,

703
00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:15.719
you to miss the live show,
you can always catch a be recorded podcast.

704
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:21.559
We were on the earth President and
General Counsel Counsel Hugh Welsh of DSM

705
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:25.159
talking about how their purpose led and
performance driven culture makes them profitable, gets

706
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:29.519
them through the hard times, and
what they're doing in response to the coronavirus.

707
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:31.960
Next week, we'll be on the
air with Lewis Efron of The Voice

708
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:37.440
of Purpose talking about his book and
practice and where purpose meets execution, helping

709
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:40.800
companies get the right balance between the
two to drive profitability and ongoing relevance.

710
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.559
Remember that work is at least a
third of our life, So let's work

711
00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:52.360
on Purpose. See you there,
Well, we hope you've enjoyed this week's

712
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:55.880
program. Be sure to tune in
to Working on Purpose, featuring your host

713
00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:01.320
Alis Cortes, each week on the
Voice of America Empartment channel. This week,

714
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:04.920
find your life's purpose at work.