Embracing Diversity Invites Continuous Ideological Re-Evaluation

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, doctor Elis Cortez Johnie
Ali from Dallas, Texas, which is

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home base for me. If you've
been tuning in for a while, you

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know this program is an inspirational thought
leadership platform that advances the conversation on living

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and working with passion, inspiration,
and purpose. I'm committed to helping create

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a world where business and capitalism are
a force for good, constantly working to

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address the immense number of problems society
faces, serving all stakeholders, certainly it's

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employees among them. The Gallup Organization
reports that eighty five percent of the global

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workforce does not want to go to
work on Monday or whenever the shift starts.

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Let's change that together and instead make
work and enriching part of life that

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expresses meaningful contribution and helps us grow
into our highest selves, all in service

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of the organization's purpose. Each week
in these conversations, I hope you walk

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away with something that changes the way
you think or that you can merely put

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to use. Much of the content
we discuss on this program as a reflection

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of the work I do. So
as you listen, if you catch a

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glimpse of anything I can do to
help, go to my website at a

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least Cortez dot com and use the
contact me feature to message me and let's

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talk about what's going on for you
and how I might be able to help,

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whether it's consulting on visioneering for a
greater purpose among your stakeholders, the

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vitally inspired leadership program, the online
catch Fire learning communities, or speaking for

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your company or conference at a rate. I'm glad we're connected, and thanks

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for listening. Now onto this week's
program with us today for the third time

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is doctor Arthur Sirah McCauley is a
licensed clinical psychologist who has and treating clients

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for more than thirty five years.
He is a member of the American Psychological

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Association in the Massachusetts Psychological Association,
and he's the author of The Triumph of

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Diversity, Rejoice in and Benefit From
the Interconnectedness of Humankind. Also the book

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called The Soulful Leader, Success with
Authenticity, Integrity and Empathy, and finally

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the book The Stress Solution Using Empathy
and cognitive behavioral Therapy to reduce anxiety develop

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resilience, all of which we've discussed
on this radio program, plus many other

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things that he's done as well.
Today we'll be talking about that recent book

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about the Triumph over Diversity of what
it can teach us about how to recognize

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our prejudices and bias and learn to
be more empathetic and curious about anyone who

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registers as different from us. He
joins it today from the Boston area doctor

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Sirah McCauley, affectionately called doctor c. Welcome back to working on Purpose.

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Thank you Alas, good to talk
with you again. We always needs to

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be doing this every year. Yeah, as I said, well before we

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got on air, I recognize it's
because you keep writing books. So keep

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at it, would you? Yes, okay, we need you. So

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I want to start with what I
saw as the premise of your book,

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and as you know, I'm prone
to do, doctor c I do read

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the book cover to cover. I'm
told by many other other authors that that's

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not something that all the all hosts
do, but for me, that's the

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reason I host to show is to
learn and grow. So the premise of

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your book that you wrote it from
a broken heart at the developments in society

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today and that in it you offer
how having an open mind and open heart

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enriches lives. Can we start with
that? Well, you know, I

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wrote the book at least because I'm
just very disturbed by what's happening in our

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country today. We have the highest
rates of prejudice and hate crimes that we've

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had in many many years, very
high rates and anti Semitism, anti Muslim

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attitudes and hate crimes, the same
thing through LBGDQ people. And also in

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the workforce. You know, women
say that of women are discriminated in the

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workplace. And over twenty years ago
we were ranked high in terms of gender

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equality in the world. A few
years ago we were ranked twenty eighth in

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terms of gender equality. Now as
of twenty nineteen, were ranked one hundred

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and forty nine. So I'm very
disturbed by what's happening in that regard,

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and I'm hoping this book and you
know, the work that you do and

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I do and many others will help
people realize that being prejudiced toward others really

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limits your capacity to grow when you
don't accept diversity, don't don't embellish it,

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don't realize that people. If you
judge people by the way they look,

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the color of their skin, their
religious religion, their ethnic background,

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you're being very shortsighted and you're using
very black and white thinking. You're making

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a decision about somebody based on their
appearance or their orientation. And when you

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look beyond that, and you know, you know that my work focus is

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a great deal on empathy, the
capacity to understand and respond to the unique

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experience of another is that I teach
people to utilize empathy, to look beyond

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the surface into the heart and souls
of what another person is really made up

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of. We know that when that
happens, and particularly when leaders employ that

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technique, leaders employed empathy and they're
authentic, it filters down to all people

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in their organizations. It does in
the educational world, it does in the

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corporate world right now, I think
we don't have that in the political world.

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People are constantly criticizing each other,
calling each other names, very uncivil

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behavior and unempathic behavior, and that
has a profound effect on the society.

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So I wrote this book for those
reasons, because I'm trying to find remedies

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to reverse what has been a trend
for the last two to five years.

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Two things, if I can doctor
see before we go on is one,

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I want to really, of course
applaud because, as you know, I'm

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aligned with what you're doing, which
is another reason you and I keep coming

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back together again. And I do
think we can do so much better as

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human beings. We can do better
than we are today, and so I

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appreciate that you're giving us a roadmap
to be able to do that. And

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then the second thing I want to
say is for our listeners who are listening

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to you talk about this so much
of what they've heard me say before in

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other programs, in other episodes and
in my programs is one way to find

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our purpose is to discover what is
it about, what big hairy problem out

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there in the world do we want
to help to stand to solve and for

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you. Part of that is it's
discrimination, it's not appreciating diversity, it's

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a lack of empathy. And so
it's just such a great example, doctor

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c and what it looks like when
we identify where can we be of service

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and then we just bring it like
you've been bringing it. Well, you

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know, my life's work, at
least, as you said, I've been

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doing this for over thirty five years, is that to help people reduce prejudice,

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not only toward others, but beginning
to within, helping them reduce prejudice

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toward themselves. Because we all grow
up writing a novel about ourselves and other

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people. And it's a novel because
it's based on what we hear from other

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people. If you grow up in
a home where you're called names or do

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you mean, and you grow up
in a home where people are making anti

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Semitic comments, comments about black people, or comments about Muslim people, and

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they're very derogatory. As a child, you believe what you hear. You

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not only believe what you hear about
you, you believe what you hear about

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other people. Our responsibility, I
believe as adults is that we have to

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make that novel a nonfiction book.
We have to find out the facts,

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and this book is very oriented to
it helping people be fact oriented. Empathy

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is fact oriented. Empathy slows down
the process and really listens to other people

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to find out what the facts are, not what our preconceived notions have taught

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us from old conditioning. Yeah,
I think that bears us really going into

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a little bit deeper for our listeners
to really get access to that. Doctor

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C. You do remind us in
the book that prejudice and discrimination are learned,

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They're not just part of the fabric
of our beings. So just as

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appreciation for diversity, acceptance, and
joy in engaging those who seem different is

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also learned. So I think it's
important that listeners understand that just because they've

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grown up with these different messages and
such, doesn't mean they have to continue

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with them absolutely at least. You
know, I was told when I was

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a senior in high school that I
was in college material and hearing him flushing

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to do so. We all hear
things about ourselves that, god, thank

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god, we find out are not
actually accurate. And it's very important not

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only about other people, but if
you have biases towards yourself. If you

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have prejudices towards yourself, then you
don't see other people clearly because you have

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blind spots. So my work is
to help people see clearly, see the

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truth internally and externally. And right
now we're in a crisis because we're in

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that we're in a time in our
society where hate crimes are increasing, not

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decreasing, They're increasing. Anti Semitic
hate crimes and harassments reached the record high

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last year, an increase of six
hundred and sixty four hate crimes to the

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year before just a year before.
You know, anti Muslim anti Muslim hate

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crimes rose sixty seven percent in the
last three years, and and an interesting

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Gallant Pole at least showed that those
who hate juice are thirty times more likely

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to hate Muslims. Mhow so,
it's a thing, you know that it's

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that us, you know, us
them, black and white thinking, not

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based on facts, based on fear
of not belonging. You know, it's

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it's cultish. You know, you
and I we've talked about group think.

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You know, it's that type of
thinking that creates that us them dichotomy.

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If you're not in the end group, everyone outside of that group is an

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enemy, and that's what's used to
create cults and dogmatic thinking. It is

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what's interesting as our listeners here,
Brian and Prudence are also they're in the

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chat room here and they're talking about
question was why does every other type get

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mentioned except white men when this is
spoken of? You want to go ahead

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and address that. I'm sorry,
can you say that again? What about

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Brian is asking why does every other
type of every other type get mentioned except

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white men when this is spoken of? This idea of prejudice and discrimination.

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Because in this book, I follow
the FBI statistics. They're at the end

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of the book. So I'm following
the hate crimes and discrimination that has been

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reported been recorded by the FBI,
And according to the FBI, it's Jewish

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people, Muslim people, women,
LBGTQ, and transgenders more than anyone else,

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nine six ninety six percent increase in
hate crimes. So I'm going by

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statistics and also my experience doing waste. White men are experience prejudice at some

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point, well, of course,
but not to the reason that these folks

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do. Very well said, and
Brian, thanks for the question. Well,

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so one of the things that you
do beautifully in the book, and

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that I really appreciate because this gets
to Okay, so we do have a

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problem. I think you've convinced us
all that we have a problem here and

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what are we going to do about
it? And one of the things that

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you offer, which I think is
a delicious way to go about this,

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is this idea of deliberative pulling.
And you describe that as a random representative

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sample of people engaged in deliberation on
current issues through small group discussions with experts

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to create more understanding and thoughtful,
reflective opinion. And it brings individuals of

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various perspectives, including those from opposite
views on many subjects, to have civil

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dialogue on many political issues. I
think that idea is so important to presence

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for our listeners because you say in
the book about how we tend to hang

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out with those that are like us
well to purposely put ourselves into a deliberative

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polling situation like this. I just
see that as greatly expanding our empathy,

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our curiosity, our understanding, our
connection. Will you say more about how

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does it work and why does it
work so well? Well? Deliberate polling

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is swept through Europe many countries they're
using it, and we have had experiments

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here in this country as well.
One was called America. In one room

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where they brought for two days,
brought together Die Hide Democrats and Diehide Republicans.

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And what was done was they brought
in experts. For instance, they

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brought an expert scientist on climate change
and they sat down and people and they

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gave people articles to read, and
they had open discussions about it, and

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the scientists was showing them once again
the facts. Then they had discussions of

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other issues immigration, should we build
a wall? They brought an experts on

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that, they brought an experts on
the economy. What happened was they're also

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listening to people's different perspectives and the
experts were pointing out where they were making

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distortions and they were not based on
facts. They might have heard it on

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social media or in the news,
but it was not fact oriented. What

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happened at the end of two days
and both sides meeting, seventy percent of

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the people said they change their minds. Seventy percent. Amazing. This is

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what happens in my communication and leadership
groups at least. And one of the

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reasons, you know, as I
mentioned in the group that diversity training has

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not worked so well in the corporate
world. It doesn't last long enough.

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You know, imagine this American one
room was two days, two whole days.

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My groups meet every week. They're
mainly people in the business world,

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but they but they're you know,
half of the group or from other countries

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who have come here, they've immigrated
in they're here. So I have clients

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from from Japan, from from China, from Australia, from England, from

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Spain, from Italy, from Iran, and from India. And when those

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people walk into a room, and
then there's the rest of the group,

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as a white Americans, these are
all people who are going to become Americans,

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where some of them already are.
But you know, there's been studies

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that show when people see a face
that they're not familiar with, they kind

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of repel a little bit, they
get a little anxious, and so many

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of these credible studies have shown that
that call stranger studies when you reach out

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to somebody you don't know or doesn't
look like you, almost in high percentages,

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people will say that they enjoyed the
interaction and they found that that person

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was quite different than what they imagined
in these groups, that's what happens.

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But we meet week after week after
weeks, so in twelve consecutive weeks,

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so we get time to know each
other. And people ultimately value people for

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their character, not the color of
their skin, their ethnicity, or their

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religion. M well, I am
one of those kind of people. I'm

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sure you probably notice about me,
doctor C. And I don't know if

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you remember it, but my students
also call me doctor C. But so

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we have a little bit in common
there. But I love talking to new

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people. I was just driving in
a suburban Dallas yesterday and I stopped.

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Of course, whenever I stop into
a restaurant, I always stop at the

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bar because then I could talk to
people. No one is safe, right,

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And they're more different they look from
me somehow, the more interesting they

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are to me. What can I
learn from them? There? They have

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a different vantage point of the world, they see it differently, and I'm

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hungry to have access to that.
So I'm maybe I'm weird, doctor C.

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But I do tend to I'm drawn
to what's different from me. I

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don't think you're weird. I think
you're compassionate and empathic and I think you

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love people. That's my impression of
you, which is, what if every

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human being was like you, the
country would turn around tomorrow. Well,

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I'm in for it. Well along
those lines, then, I mean,

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this is one other thing I wanted
to say a little bit more about.

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You've already served it up, but
I think it's so important for our listeners

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to get this is you do talk
about how this book builds on your previous

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ones, especially on empathy, and
you talk about how empathy opens the door

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to the commonalities of humanity, like
we're talking about me reaching across the aisle,

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and that it also removes our lens
to see fear or something that see

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people that are different from us as
being fearful. The reason I want you

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to talk more about that is because
I think a lot of people don't understand

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the power of empathy. They still
see it as squishy and soft. Yes,

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and excuse me. I think people
confuse empathy with sympathy. Empathy sympathy

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rushes into console based on identifying with
someone else. Because if you went through

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a divorce, then I say,
oh, I've gone through a divorce,

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I know exactly what you're going through. Well, I really don't because you

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may have had a different experience than
I with the spouse. But empathy,

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sympathy assumes. Empathy is objective,
it's fact oriented, and it allows us

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to see beyond the surface and see
who other people really are, what's their

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character, And empathy is the heart
of diversity. And diversity people oftentimes don't

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realize increases creativity, productivity, and
profitability empathic organizations. I mean, if

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you get ten white men, or
ten white women, or ten black women

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or ten Jewish women in one group, and they're going to side with the

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market demands and what we should bring
to market, you're preaching to the choir.

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You don't get many diverse ideas.
When you have a group of people

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like the group that I described,
where you have so many people from very

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different backgrounds, the whole world opens
up. You're now you're talking, and

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you're looking at the world in the
marketplace, internationally, not just in your

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little world, in your small world. I like to differentiate, differentiate between

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small world thinking and large world.
And that's what happens when you have diversity.

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Empathy allows people again not to go
by the face, the strange face,

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or the strange look, or the
strange clothes, but talk enough,

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listen enough to ascertain the facts to
see who the person is. And when

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that happens, When that happens in
an organization, when that happens in business

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or in education, and when it
even happens in a family, it's infectious.

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It trickles down, just like when
you have a toxic leader, when

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you know, I'm sure you have
as well. You know we've consulted to

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corporations. I can tell that the
demeanor of a leader. When I start

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to walk into a business, you
know, you're greeted by the receptionists who

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seems rather cold. I walk by
to it. This is actually experienced.

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I had a few weeks ago.
I walked by a couple of two or

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three men and three piece suits.
They don't say hello, they don't say

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good morning. They just keep walking. Then I go in and meet the

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CFO and the CEO, and it's
the same attitude. Why is that Because

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when you have leaders that are toxic, when you have leaders that are blamers,

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when you have leaders that don't accept
responsibility for their own flaws and mistakes

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and allow themselves to be vulnerable,
but also allow their staff, with their

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workers to be vulnerable, you don't
have an expansive ideas. These leaders lead

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for aggression and fear, and they
destroy the spirit of people who work for

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them. The amazing thing that I've
learned in the corporate world is when you

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have leaders like that, even if
a person's bonus is dependent on that person,

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they will undermine them. They'll undermined
them unconsciously because they don't like them

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and they feel valued and demean by
them. On a consistent basis, When

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you have someone who is leading with
empathy and brings in a diverse group of

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people, you know that that person
appreciates difference, that person is not afraid

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of difference. That person wants to
learn from your different experiences. Isn't that

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exciting? That's the infectious part.
Yes, And I totally stand to support

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the same thing. And we want
to grab our next our first break here,

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and I want to hear more after
the break about how it is you

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make those conversations happen. So listeners, stay with us. I'm your host,

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Alice Cortez. We've been on the
air with doctor Arthur Sirah McCauley,

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who is the licensed clinical psychologist who
has been treating clients for more than thirty

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five years. He is the author
of the book The Triumph of Diversity,

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Rejoice in and Benefit from the Interconnectedness
of Humankind and also the book called The

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Soulful Leader. Success with Authenticity,
Integrity, and Empathy just two of his

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more recent books. He judged today
from Boston. We'll be right back.

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Elise Cortez is a speaker and engagement
and development catalyst. She designs and delivers

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professional development, leadership and engagement workshops
and can bring her expertise to your organization.

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She will help ignite meaningful development within
your workforce that will increase employee engagement,

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performance and retention. To learn more
or to invite Elise to speak to

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your organization, please visit her at
www dot Elise Cortez dot com. She

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would welcome the opportunity to help get
your employees working on purpose. This is

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working on Purpose with Elise Cortez.
To reach our program today, send an

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email to Elise Alis at Elise Cortez
dot com. Now back to working on

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Purpose. Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose.

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If you're just joining us, my
guest is doctor Arthur Sierrah McCauley a

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licensed clinical psychologist who has been treating
clients for more than thirty five years.

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He is a member of the American
Psychological Association and the Massachusetts Psychological Association.

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Doctor C, as he's affectionately called, is the author of The Triumph of

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Diversity, Rejoice In and Benefit From
the Interconnectedness of Humankind, and The Soulful

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Leader, Success with Authenticity, Integrity, and Empathy, just two of his

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more recent books among many. I'm
your host, Doctor Elise Cortez. So,

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Doctor C, before we get into
some of the programs that you do,

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I do want to surface something really
important for our listeners that is probably

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something maybe it's just so much the
fabric of their being that they won't be

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able to distinguish if we don't do
this. First. You make an important

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point in your book that there is
a tendency for all of us to want

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to socialize within our own tribe,
if you will, and that what we

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need to do instead is to seek
the company of others from different face or

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heritage, et cetera. So,
first, why do we tend to seek

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our own tribe? Well, I
think we seek our own tribe because of

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familiarity and because we feel safe when
people look and seem and act like us,

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and that's normal, that's human.
If you come from a particular background,

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if you're Hispanic or you're Black,
or I'm Italian, you might have

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a certain affinity for those cultures and
that's understandable. But don't block off the

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other cultures, you know. I
interviewed an Indian engineer here, a lovely

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man, and he was telling me, you know that he lectures two different

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Indian groups in different businesses because what
he's trying to do is get them to

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expand and move out of their own
group. And this isn't specific to Indians.

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I mean, we've all done this
in our own little groups. But

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what he said to me, and
I thought it was profound. He said,

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when I lecture, I tell my
Indian colleagues, you want their money,

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but you don't want their people.
And that's not fair. And I've

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heard this. I mean, I
have two two young men who own several

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restaurants in this area and they're Brazilian
and they get very mad at their relatives

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because in their extended family because in
this particular city outside of Boston, there's

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a Brazilian sort of section and most
of their relatives stay there, they speak

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Portuguese, they watch Brazilian TV,
and they don't have a lot of interest

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in interacting with people outside that circle. And these two young men who are

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you know, very much appreciative of
being in America and they're thriving here with

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their restaurants. They're trying to get
their people, their choir, to extend

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themselves and learn the music of some
other groups as they have, and they've

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seen how they've grown from diversity.
I mean, they have to greet people

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coming into a restaurant. They can't
only be serving Brazilian people. They have

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to serve everybody, and so do
we in any business, in corporation or

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educational institution. Okay, that helps
bring it alive for all of us that

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we tend to seek what we already
know it's comfortable for us. One of

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the next things I want us to
get to is so then we would say,

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well, doesn't it help if we
just do some maybe diversity training or

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something or to help eliminate the bias. Doesn't that work? And you of

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course talk in your book that it
doesn't. So will you say a little

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bit more about why that doesn't work
before we talk about some of the programs

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that you do that do well.
The continuity is critical. You know,

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diversity training has just been too short. In the business world. It's helped

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to some degree, but it's sort
of like, you know, when you

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have a motivational speaker come into a
business or a corporation. People have the

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day off, they listen to the
speaker, they find things interesting, and

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then you do the follow up studies
six months later, and they highly remember

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what he said, except that he
told or she told some jokes that were

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funny, and they enjoyed that morning
or that afternoon with their colleagues, because

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that's human nature. If you read
a book once and you get quizzed on

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it, without reading it a second
time or studying it a little bit more,

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you don't retain much. So diversity
training has clearly been too short.

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The Hyvard did a study in the
Business School and they were trying to figure

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out why the diversity training didn't really
result in people acting very differently, and

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again they found that they didn't really
come up with a clear reason. When

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I read the study, I thought, based on my own experience, that

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it just didn't last long enough.
It was like two hours and two and

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a half hour, two hours one
week, and then two weeks later they

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did another hour and that was it. So if you don't have continuity,

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you're not going to get the benefits
of diversity training because a lack of diversity

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creates fear. Fear produces negative brain
changes and reduces our ability to think creatively.

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So it limits in essence, anyone's
potential. But to unravel the uneasiness

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that people have and not just giving
them educational information, but when you engage

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in a group, you know,
and the kind of groups that I'm running

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and I'm not complimenting myself, anybody
could do this is we're actually talking to

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each other about backgrounds and people are
being educated. How I told the story,

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you know, in the beginning of
the group about this man who came

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to me from the Midwest, Michigan, and he said, Oh, I'm

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so glad that I'm seeing you.
And he was referred to me by his

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HR department because he didn't like working
with Indian engineers. He went to HR

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and was complaining and they sent them
to me for consultation. He said,

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I'm so glad to be seeing you
because my last psychologist in Michigan was Jewish

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I said, okay, what what
didn't you like about the Jewish psychologist?

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And he said, I don't know. You know, I don't know.

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There were no Jews in our town, and I never met any Jewish people,

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and I just felt uncomfortable. I'm
so glad that you're a Christian.

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I said, how do you know
I'm Christian? He said, well,

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you're last name Sierra McCauley. You
must be Catholic or a Christian of some

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sort. I said, well,
what if I'm Jewish? He said,

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you can't be Jewish. I said, do you know this forty eight thousand

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Italian Jews in Italy? Right now? I said, do you know that

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eleven hundred Italian Jews died in Auschwitz? And all of a sudden there was

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a dead silence. He felt very
uncomfortable. He says, now, you're

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making me feel uncomfortable. I said, I'm not trying to make you feel

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uncomfortable. I'm just trying to help
you understand there are Italian Jews. I

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said, now, when you came
in here, you were excited about seeing

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me. Seven to eight, ten
minutes into this session, I can see

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that you're feeling differently. And he
said, yeah, I know. I'm

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embarrassed. I said, am I
a different human being? He said,

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no, I guess not. To
make a long story short, we went

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on meeting for eighteen months. He
joined one of my groups, and individually

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I knew that he had goodness inside
him. This fella, he opened up

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and he learned more and more,
and at the end of our last session

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he said to me, doctor C, I never you know, I have

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a home office. That's we're talking
from right now at last, And he

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said, you know, I never
see your wife and kids in the yard

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or anything, even in the summer. And he said it's summer. And

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I said, well, how do
you know I have a wife and kids.

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He was, oh my god,
now you're telling me you're an Italian

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gay jew. I have a psychologist. And I said, look, does

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it matter? And he said,
you know what, Doc, I'm all

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past that. It doesn't matter at
all. And he was light about it.

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He was kidding. And I thought, that's the triumph of diversity.

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And the work that you do is
really powerful, doctor C. And if

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I may say that I disagree with
you, of course, respectfully, I

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don't think any just anybody can do
your work. And so if we can.

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Before we go our next break here, I want you to share a

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little bit about these leadership and communication
groups where you help participants understand how they

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can develop prejudices based on their ignorance
of those they demonize. That's just so

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important that we recognize that or those
who are not familiar with So would you

407
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:56.960
say a little bit more about how
you do this work, what's involved,

408
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:00.960
how do people come, if you
will, to the other side. Well,

409
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.440
you know, it's interesting, particularly
with men, because for some reason,

410
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:10.839
many times when I get referred to
man from the corporate world, whether

411
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:14.880
it's a CEO or CFO or just
an engineer or whatever, I get told

412
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:19.839
by HR they don't have the empathy
gene. Yeah, And in my long

413
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:22.880
career at least, I've never been
told that about a woman. So,

414
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.480
and it's interesting because my daughter,
our daughter is a kindergarten teacher, and

415
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.039
she will tell you, and I've
interviewed other kidnegarden teachers too, and they

416
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.440
will tell you when the boys and
girls are out on the playground in kindergarten,

417
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:40.400
the boys are just empathic as empathic
as the girls. What happens as

418
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:45.400
time goes on, they learn their
role empathy goes underground, and in these

419
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.960
groups I have to bring it out, you know. I try to teach

420
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.000
people that I'm not so focused on
what's wrong with you. I'm trying to

421
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.640
uncover what's always been right with you. Everybody has the capacity for empathy.

422
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:00.759
Empathy neurons are in every brain of
every human being. But for a lot

423
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:04.319
of males, some females too,
but more males, generally speaking, it

424
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:08.799
goes underground because they're modeled. Their
fathers don't like it. You know.

425
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.720
My daughter was telling me of a
little boy that she said, he's probably

426
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:17.359
the most empathic boy in my class. And his father came in and he

427
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:19.920
went to hold the dad's hand,
and the dad roughly pushed the hand away,

428
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:23.559
and he goes, we don't want
to hold the hands now, she

429
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:26.920
said to me. She goes,
Dad, by the time that the little

430
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.799
boys in the fourth grade, he
won't be is empathic. It's gonna go

431
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:33.160
underground. He's gonna have to see
you when he's forty. Yeah, that's

432
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.480
exactly right. So such important work
to be doing in the world. And

433
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.359
talk about making a difference with your
one precious life, Doctor c. I

434
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:45.640
really appreciate who you are and how
you're helping us all get more access to

435
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:52.720
the idea of empathy, of curiosity, of connections so important. Well,

436
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:57.039
I'm very thankful that you're having me
on again and we can spread the word.

437
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.400
You know, I think this needs
to be movement at least, because

438
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:07.319
we really are facing difficult times.
I mean, obviously even more difficult with

439
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.000
what's happened with the virus. But
you know, even now, you can

440
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:14.880
see the blaming. You know,
this is a this is a foreign virus.

441
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.119
It's not an American virus. I
mean, how silly we got to

442
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.359
we have to blame somebody. You
know, it came from another country.

443
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:23.640
It could have come from this country
and gone to another country. Rather than

444
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.759
blaming, why not come together and
work together? Why not learn from other

445
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:32.799
countries what they're doing. Why Why
do we have to be blaming? Why

446
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:36.680
do we have to be demeaning?
It's affecting the world, you know.

447
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:40.119
I start this I start this book
with a quote, it's my favorite quote

448
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:47.039
of all from Thomas Paine. My
religion is to do good. My country

449
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:51.960
is the world. And I think
I think that, I mean that summarizes

450
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:55.680
a feeling of we're all together.
Maybe we look a little different, but

451
00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:00.400
we're together. We should be together
rather than separating. We need to be

452
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:04.519
in a time rather than people ostracizing
and separating and you have to pick a

453
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:08.200
side. We need to come together
and see the commonality of all of us,

454
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.599
not just Americans. But you know, that's one of my concerns too,

455
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:15.759
that we don't seem to be caring
about people outside of our country.

456
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.160
What about the rest of the world. We all came from somewhere else,

457
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:23.039
by the way, and when we
don't care about other people, eventually that

458
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:30.319
creates a kind of isolation and attention
within oneself because then you become afraid of

459
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:35.440
other people and the polarization just increases. Aligned on that, doctor, see,

460
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:37.720
let's grab our last break here already
time flies when you're having fun.

461
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:40.559
I'm doctor Lee's Cortez, your host. We are on the air with doctor

462
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:45.640
Arthur Sierra McCauley, who is a
licensed clinical psychologist who's been treating clients for

463
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:49.279
more than thirty five years. He's
the author of the book entitled The Triumph

464
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:52.559
of Diversity, Rejoice in and Benefit
from the Interconnectness of Humankind, and a

465
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:58.039
book entitled The Soulful Leader Success with
Authenticity, Integrity, and Empathy, just

466
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:00.039
two of his more recent books.
He Judge It from Boston, Steve,

467
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:24.240
Who's after the break? We're going
to talk about pathological certainty. Elise Cortez

468
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:30.799
is a speaker and engagement and development
catalyst. She designs and delivers professional development,

469
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:35.720
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring
her expertise to your organization. She

470
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:40.359
will help ignite meaningful development within your
workforce that will increase employee engagement, performance

471
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:45.680
and retention. To learn more or
to invite Elise to speak to your organization,

472
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:50.960
please visit her at www dot Elise
Cortez dot com. She would welcome

473
00:33:50.960 --> 00:34:01.039
the opportunity to help get your employees
working on purpose. This is working on

474
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:06.880
Purpose with Elise Cortez. To reach
our program today, send an email to

475
00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:14.320
Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez dot
com. Now back to working on purpose.

476
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.760
Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to working on Purpose.

477
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:24.920
If you're just tuning in, My
guest is doctor Arthur Sierrah McCauley, a

478
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:29.480
licensed clinical psychologist who has been treating
clients for more than thirty five years.

479
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:34.119
He is a member of the American
Psychological Association and the Massachusetts Psychological Association.

480
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.039
Doctor c is the author of the
book The Triumph of Diversity, Rejoice in

481
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:42.079
and Benefit from the connected interconnectedness of
human kind, which we're discussing today.

482
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:45.840
I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. So, as I said just before

483
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:51.599
the break listeners, I came across
a phrase in this book that I have

484
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:58.159
never heard before, but I find
it quite riveting, pathological certainty. So

485
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.320
would you talk to us about what
it is, why it's important, in

486
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:06.239
what we can do about it.
No, pathological certainty really is a characteristic

487
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:09.320
that toxic leaders have. At least
it's the belief that I'm right all the

488
00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:14.800
time. It's entering into categories that
you really have no knowledge of what you

489
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:19.719
insist if you are the expert.
As spouses, they drive people crazy.

490
00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:24.280
They drive their spouses and their children
crazy because they can't be vulnerable. They're

491
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:30.679
very insecure, so they have a
grandiose tendency. They don't give answers that

492
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:34.800
indicate a vulnerability that I don't know, or I'll check it out with somebody

493
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.480
who does know. They don't tend
to use good consultants. They like to

494
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:43.280
have people around them that are more
parasitic, they're more make them look good,

495
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:49.079
you know, they're toxic leaders.
Blaming leaders tend to be pathological in

496
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:54.159
that regard, and often they can
they jastically hurt the spirit of an organization,

497
00:35:55.239 --> 00:36:00.400
whether it's political or corporate, because
their influence that goes They influence people

498
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.360
from the top down. You know, there's a number of studies now that

499
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:10.079
talk about the desensitization of prejudice.
Several studies have demonstrated that frequent exposure to

500
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:16.719
hate speech online or in person desensitizes
those listening to forms of verbal violence against

501
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:22.360
particular groups. So when we hear
that it doesn't matter if a leader talks

502
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.599
this way or that, Yes,
it does this exposure it lessens the perceived

503
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:30.840
suffering of those that are being the
object of hate crimes because that kind of

504
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:37.119
language encourages hate rather than bringing people
together. And some of these people,

505
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:42.840
some people with pathological certainty, have
what we call personality disorders. You know,

506
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:46.960
that pathological certainty may never change.
That's why leaders who are toxic,

507
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:52.119
I mean, oftentimes they have to
be let go. The board has to

508
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:57.079
decide whether it's worth having a person
that leads that way. Unfortunately, if

509
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.360
you have a family or a parent
who leads that way. It's horrific for

510
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:05.360
the people living with them, and
especially children because it's a horrible model.

511
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.679
I have encountered several of those people
in my work developing leaders and consulting the

512
00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:15.400
organizations, and so I know what
you're talking about, and I have seen

513
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:21.400
them removed from the organization. Is
there for these so that we can at

514
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:24.440
least give some hope here? Is
there a way to help those people?

515
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:30.880
Well? You know that's why I
said yes and no. Some people who

516
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:36.519
lead that way, when they're educated, if it's not an embedded part of

517
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.679
their personality, embedded part of their
culture, they're open to changing. Not

518
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:45.880
easily. It takes a long time. Other people they're just not open to

519
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:50.280
hearing anything anything. But they're right, and they want you to idealize them.

520
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:52.920
If they're not idealize them, you're
not part of the you're not part

521
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:58.039
of the group. So they're the
ones who are often firing people. They're

522
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:01.400
known for firing people. People come
and go because once you differ with them,

523
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:07.320
you're not around very long. You
know John Dene, You remember John

524
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.519
Dene with Richard Nixon, And I
believe this is a true story. I

525
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:13.519
didn't hear it from John Dene,
but I but I read it in an

526
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:16.920
article once and it always stuck with
me during when he was in the cabinet

527
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:21.679
with Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon began
when the new cabinet came in, he

528
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:23.480
said, I want everybody to be
open. I want everybody ask questions,

529
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.199
and I want you to feel afraid. You know, if you have a

530
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:30.639
differenceive opinion, I want to know
about it. So John Dene spoke up

531
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:34.559
and had had a few comments what
different with the president, And then when

532
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:39.199
the meeting was over, the President
Nixon said to John Dene, you need

533
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:43.320
to stay behind. Everybody left it. He looked at John Dene he goes,

534
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:45.559
don't you ever contradict me again in
front of those people, and he

535
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:50.800
laced into him. So it's sort
of like the mission statement of a corporation,

536
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.880
right, they all read nicely,
but are they leading that way?

537
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:58.840
Are they really are they really part
of the mission statement or is it just

538
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:00.639
a statement in the front of the
building that makes them look good. Is

539
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:06.159
it just to seek a certain image
for the company and it isn't really followed

540
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:12.760
through. So this is so powerful
because many So much of the work that

541
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:15.840
I do doctor see when I'm inside
organizations is to really help create purpose inspired

542
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:20.039
leaders and meaning infuse cultures because a
lot of people, as I said at

543
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.000
the beginning the show, don't want
to go to work on money. There's

544
00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:23.719
a reason for that, and part
of the reason is they do work for

545
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:30.480
a leader like this. Yeah,
you also use another phrase later on in

546
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:32.280
the book, sadistic leaders. Is
that what you were talking about before?

547
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.079
Yeah, I mean sadistic leaders.
And you know I've said in the book

548
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.719
and I've said up throughout my career
and this is my experience, and I

549
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:44.960
would guess it has been yours too, because I know you're very experienced and

550
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.880
have met many of these type of
people as well as many good people.

551
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:53.199
Sadistic leaders tend to blame, they
don't accept responsibility, and they do tend

552
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:58.360
to have what I call pathological certainty. They're never in doubt. They always

553
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:01.280
know. They never say I don't
know. Therefore they're people who work for

554
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:06.119
them can't say I don't know either. Some people are always saying absolutely,

555
00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:07.320
yeah, we can get that,
we can get that to market soon.

556
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:13.880
You know, everybody's walking around with
this false sense of greatness and they know

557
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:17.039
that it's not true, and they
shutter sometimes when they hear their leaders say

558
00:40:17.079 --> 00:40:22.440
certain things to investors and especially to
Wall Street because they know it's not true

559
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:28.079
and they know they're going to pay
a penalty eventually. Well, so I

560
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:30.239
think that was important to talk about
because one, if we can at least

561
00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:35.199
distinguish that that's not acceptable and that's
not what we're what we're going for in

562
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:37.079
life. And then if you are
working for somebody like that, then recognize

563
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:39.400
that that's what you're what you're dealing
with. And if there's a way to

564
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:45.599
address that or you know, find
another place to play in the sandbox,

565
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:49.719
then so be it. But I
think it's important that we recognize we've been

566
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:52.719
talking so much about what's healthy,
but to also recognize the other end of

567
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.519
that spectrum. So thank you for
filling us in there. You're welcome,

568
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.400
so that we're coming close. But
I do want to do something kind of

569
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:02.599
interesting and fund that I think you
did delightfully in your book that I think

570
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:07.440
will help our listeners open themselves to
to what we're trying to do here,

571
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:09.599
doctor C. And So what I
want to do is I want to invite

572
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:15.599
them into imagine, especially from any
vantage point, any religion that they subscribe

573
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:19.039
to, that they've been, they've
grown up with, that they're connected to,

574
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:22.960
and listen to this what you have
to say about this from the vantage

575
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:27.360
point that wouldn't it be interesting if
we could do this with everything we can

576
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.960
still know what our religion is and
we then hear from other people about their

577
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:36.679
perspective of their faith and other cultures, et cetera. So by religion specifically,

578
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:40.360
you have a part in your book
where Serie Carms description comes into play

579
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:45.039
that he says all religions lead to
the same truth, which is God.

580
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:50.239
And he says Sikhism teaches that each
religion contains the whole truth, but focuses

581
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:52.719
on a different aspect of the truth. And you go on to list about

582
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:58.440
four different truths. I think this
is really really useful and interesting and what

583
00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:00.599
could open the minds of people.
So if we can go through the four

584
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:04.960
that I sat that I found and
let you weigh in on this and the

585
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.840
beauty of what they bring, I
think it could be fun. So you

586
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:13.559
mentioned that he mentions Islam focuses on
humility. Yes, well you say more

587
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:19.519
about that, Well, you know, it's interesting because I interviewed several Muslims

588
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:22.199
for this book and and he's absolutely
right. And I have to give Siri

589
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:29.239
com who's a very interesting Seek leader
in this community, credit for these ideas

590
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:32.320
because they really came from him in
my meeting with him and his friend,

591
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:42.480
a Catholic priest, father and Juddy, and I realized as I interviewed,

592
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.840
as I interviewed Muslim leaders, you
know, their focus on humility is that's

593
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:50.079
why they're bowing, just like Siri
Karme says, that's why Seeks were white,

594
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:53.119
because they're trying to be pure in
a sense of inviting everybody in and

595
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:58.599
Muslims. You know, I was
talking to a Muslim leader who actually lectures

596
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:00.239
quite a bit in the Boston area, and he said, you know,

597
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:05.280
probably what people don't realize. And
I read the Koran twice before I met

598
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:07.679
with him, because I wanted to
make sure I knew the facts myself as

599
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.800
much as I could ascertain them.
And he said to me, you know,

600
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:15.840
we can't hate Christians because Jesus is
in the Koran, he said.

601
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.519
We can't hate Jews because Moses is
in the Koran, he said, and

602
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:22.920
in the Koran. We are taught
to go out and make friends with people

603
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:28.159
of other faiths. We're taught to
reach out and to be humble that we

604
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:32.599
don't have all the answers. And
I thought that was very impressive because these

605
00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:38.039
leaders, in this particular Muslim leader
in this area, he lectures to Catholic

606
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:43.440
churches, Protestant churches, Jewish synagogues. He wants to bring people together.

607
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:46.840
And in this interfaith movement, I
just I had not been exposed to inter

608
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:52.239
faith discussions, and I just found
it amazing. At least I just you

609
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:55.719
know, incomes this I have a
Buddhist statue out in my front lawn,

610
00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:00.920
and incomes this Catholic priest and this
Sikh and them, and they're dressed differently,

611
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.519
and they're looking at the buddhais statue
and they looked at me and they

612
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.000
said they didn't know, they hadn't
met me, and they said, oh,

613
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:08.800
I guess this is an interfaith home. And they came in and we

614
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:14.440
had this great discussion and they're so
tolerant of each other. And one of

615
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:17.880
the things that I learned too about
the interfaith movement is that inter faith empathy

616
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:24.039
places emphasis not only understanding different religious
perspectives, but also regardless of religions,

617
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:29.159
they focus on unique people. You
know, they don't get we don't greet

618
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:34.239
people of other faiths by hello Buddhaho
Buddhist, or a low Muslim or hello

619
00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:38.360
Jewel or a low Christian within their
faith and their unique beings. And that's

620
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:42.199
what and that's what they're trying to
do in their movement. They're trying to

621
00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:46.280
say, we're all unique, and
SERI calm this wonderful seek. The teacher

622
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:51.159
is saying, we all believe that
there's one God. We have different branches

623
00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:54.119
of the tree to get there.
But we're even within our own religions,

624
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:59.119
we're different. We're not all the
same. Well, a black commentator said

625
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:01.280
the other night, he said,
sometimes I find it funny. He's a

626
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:05.280
political commentator, and he said,
sometimes they find it funny when they say

627
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:07.599
the black vote, the black vote. He said, you know, all

628
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:09.320
black people aren't the same, by
the way, he said, and then

629
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:13.440
they talk about the Hispanic lte,
the Hispanic lolde, the Hispanics are going

630
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:15.800
to vote this way, he said, like one Hispanic big group and we

631
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:20.559
all decide which way we're going to
vote. We actually have some uniqueness within

632
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:24.079
us. I thought that was important
to understand and emphasize it is it really

633
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:29.159
is, and quickly for our listeners
here, so because I were running out

634
00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:31.559
of time, we got maybe three
more minutes left. So for the sake

635
00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:37.159
of this idea of the inter faith
discussion here. Siri carm then goes on

636
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:42.559
to say that judaeas and focuses on
understanding. Can you say something about that,

637
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:49.519
yes, understanding it And I think
Judaism focus is a great deal on

638
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:55.320
meaning. I mean, m you
know, the meaning of life and very

639
00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:59.880
and Jewish people tend to be that
way too. And I mean it's interesting

640
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.400
because I have several Israeli patients now
and they really they're very interesting because they

641
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:09.840
like to dialogue, they like to
debate, you know, really try to

642
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:14.440
get to the facts and they'll take
a position, but then they'll alter it

643
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:16.960
depending on what you say. And
it is very interesting. I've learned a

644
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:21.039
great deal. I learned a great
deal in one of my clients. And

645
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:24.519
this really he's just very open,
you know, he talks about you know,

646
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:28.800
he says, one of the difficulties
is as being in Israeli, we

647
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:30.480
don't want to talk about the Palestinians. We don't want to talk about the

648
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:34.440
Arabs. He said. When I
was in school, we could study every

649
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.599
language but Arabic. And he said, and there are cousins and our neighbors.

650
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:39.880
He said, when you when you
think of it, how silly it

651
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:44.760
is. You know, he's a
man that was raised in a certain way.

652
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:49.079
In fact, his father was a
was a friend of Schendler, you

653
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:52.239
know, from Shendler's list. Yes, he actually brought me a picture of

654
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:57.880
Schendler and his father because his father
was a principal in Israel. But he's

655
00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:01.079
seeing through the dogma that he's been
exposed to, and he's seeing that both

656
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:06.519
groups have something to say and both
groups could unite. But if we don't

657
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:08.760
want to talk to each other,
or we're told we can't talk to each

658
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:14.960
other because that other group is evil, nothing happens. Mm. That's why

659
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:16.760
I thought this was such a beautiful
thing to open up for our listeners.

660
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:20.239
As imagine if you could be in
that space. And it kind of goes

661
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:23.480
back to that that topic we had
before about what was that that something about

662
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:29.559
polling? What do we call that
deliberative polling? Yes, all right,

663
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:31.679
so we're getting close, but Can
you just say a couple of words about

664
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:36.440
the focus that he says that Christianity
is focused on unconditional love, which is

665
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:38.960
evidenced by God's sacrifice for his only
son for all of us. Yes,

666
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.079
maybe a minute on that. Yeah, I think here he's he's spoken to

667
00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:47.599
he's focusing on Jesus on the cross
that he sacrificed himself for us. So

668
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.840
it's very obvious that that happened,
and he indicated Jesus as saying, I

669
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:59.239
have unconditional love for all human beings
because I'm sacrificing myself for this purpose.

670
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:04.039
M I think that just opens something
when you can start to recognize that they

671
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:07.920
that these faiths focus on a different
aspect of truth. I just feel like

672
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:12.639
that just opens so much. So
here we are towards the end already,

673
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:15.079
doctor, See it's amazing to me. But I want to finish with this

674
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:20.159
idea what I consider to be the
promise of your book. And so if

675
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.679
you want to live in our diverse
world with ease and joy, you must

676
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:27.960
we all must You say, reevaluate
the ideas we accepted based on being naive

677
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:31.480
children, observing biased adults. You
say, your future, our future,

678
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:36.440
depends on making this effort. Commit
to a journey of uncovering the truth about

679
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:38.639
yourself and others, and you will
be part of making a world based on

680
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:43.920
compassion for all, rather than a
world based on small minded perspectives that limit

681
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:46.360
the potential of many for the favor
of a few. The more we encounter

682
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:51.280
others who see different on the who
seem different on the surface, the more

683
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:55.159
we find out who we really are. That is stunningly beautiful. Thank you,

684
00:48:55.400 --> 00:49:00.480
Thank you very much. Do you
so here we are towards the end.

685
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.719
I just want to give you the
chance to close. You know,

686
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:07.440
this is a thought leadership platform that's
designed to advance the conversation on meeting passion,

687
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:12.639
inspiration, purpose in life and at
work. And about say thirty seconds,

688
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:14.960
what would you like to leave our
listeners with. Well, I'd like

689
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:19.000
to leave the listeners with the fact
that empathy and the acceptance of diversity,

690
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:22.320
it's going to expand your mind,
give you a greater sense of ease in

691
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:25.880
the world, in addition to causing
a positive brain change, which will absolutely

692
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:31.039
result in a highest spirited and successful
company, family, community, But it

693
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:36.719
will also be part of reversing the
dangerous trend in our society of prejudice and

694
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.880
hate. Beautiful way to finish.
Doctor Sarah McCauley, thank you again for

695
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:44.000
coming back, staying in my world, doing the important work that you're doing

696
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:46.519
and helping make the world a better
place. Thank you, Thank you very

697
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:50.360
much. At least, thank you
very very much. I appreciate it's very

698
00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:54.119
very humbling for me to talk with
you. You're such a bright person and

699
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:58.280
such a great interviewer, and I
know you're on the same path and trying

700
00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:00.159
to do the same thing. So
thank you very much. Hi sure am.

701
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:04.280
Thank you listeners. If you want
to learn more about doctor Arthur Sirrah

702
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:06.960
mccoley, his work, or any
of his books, the best place to

703
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:12.119
start is probably his website his personal
website, which is Balance your Success dot

704
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.199
com. Last week, you to
miss the live show, you can always

705
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:19.719
catch a recorded podcast. We were
on the Earth President and General Counsel Counsel

706
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:23.679
Hugh Welsh of DSM talking about how
their purpose led in performance driven culture,

707
00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:27.960
makes them profitable, gets them through
the hard times, and what they're doing

708
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:30.280
in response to the coronavirus. Next
week, we'll be on the air with

709
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:35.159
Lewis Ephron of the Voice of Purpose, talking about his book and practice in

710
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:38.239
where Purpose meets Execution, helping companies
get the right balance between the two to

711
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:43.519
drive profitability and ongoing relevance. Remember
that works at least our third of our

712
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:51.440
lives. So let's work on Purpose. See you there well. Hope you've

713
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:55.320
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune in to Working on Purpose featuring

714
00:50:55.400 --> 00:51:00.199
your host, Alice Cortez, each
week on the Voice America Campowerment channel.

715
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:04.840
This week, find your life's purpose
at work.