Do You Know Your Leader Types

WEBVTT

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. Great

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to have you. I'm your host, Elise Correz, joining from Dallas,

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Texas, which is home base for
me. This program is all about helping

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people more meaningfully and productively connect with
their work and equipping organizations to do the

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same for their employees. So I
bring on guests to have a particular perspective

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or experience that I think expands the
conversation, and I often draw on the

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meeting and work research I've been doing
over the last fifteen years, as well

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as my own experience in consulting,
including the work I do today at in

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Zindiam, which is a global management
consulting firm. I'll get to the program

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in just a moment, But let
me thank my media partner and sponsor,

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jobbing dot Com. They are the
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Great partnership. Thank you jobbing dot
Com. Last week, if you missed

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the show line, you can always
catch it via recorded podcast. We were

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on the air with Kimo Kippin,
who was an advocate for lifelong learning and

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talent development. He is the former
Chief Learning Officer and Vice President of Global

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Workforce Initiatives at Hilton. We talked
about what he's learned over his extensive career

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developing a workforce and his perspective on
the future of the workforce with such disruptions

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as artificial intelligence and robotics. With
us this week is Cash Keih. He

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is the president of KIH Consulting Group. He has enjoyed a career working with

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leaders around the globe to get better
at leading. He's the author of the

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newly released book eight Leader Types in
the White House. We'll be talking about

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those leadership types and what Cash has
learned about the field of leadership in his

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career. He joined us today from
Dallas, Texas. Cash, Welcome to

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Working on Purpose. Thank you very
much, Julie. It is a pleasure

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to have you. I've known you
for a couple of years now, and

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I know you've been working hard at
this book, and I'm so happy for

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you that it's out, it's here. Congratulations on that monumental achievement. Let's

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start with that. Thank you.
It's a great feeling to accomplish a goal

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that you set twelve years ago.
So glad you're part of it. I

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twelve years you bet. Oh my
gosh, this is a day. Let's

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each of us crap, go open
a bottle of champagne later and toast from

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across the fair city of Bals.
All right, Well, before we talk

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about the work you've done in your
twenty three years of leadership, you've been

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in that space for a good amount
of time and you've learned a lot.

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I want to start off by presencing
the actual topic for our listeners. Cash,

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Why do you think leadership is so
important today? You know, I

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think if we want progress, if
we want things to get better, it's

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not just going to happen on its
own. You know, someone has to

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step up, someone has to take
the lead, and the need is just

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widespread. You know, in the
political sphere, we see stalemates lot,

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you know, a lack of progress. In organizations, I'm sure you can

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relate. There's a lot of inertia, comfort with the status quo. So

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leaders and not managers are needed there, and they're needed at every level.

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I'm a big believer that leadership doesn't
just happen at the top. It has

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to happen throughout organizations, especially when
those organizations are flatter matrix global. And

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then there are movements that need leaders. I think the title of Seth Godin's

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book, I couldn't believe it had
been a ten years since he wrote it,

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Tribes, we need you to lead
Us. I think it's very important

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for leaders to connect people and affect
change. So that's the main reason.

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I also think sea level executives realize
this. I just got to study today

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at least a survey of one thousand
sea level executives who were asked out of

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a laundry list of issues, you
know, like cybersecurity, terrorism, global

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uncertainty, or whatever, what they
felt was the most pressing issue facing their

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organizations, and they said, developing
next gen leaders. So I think it's

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you know, it's a real need
out there. If we want to see

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things get better, to get unstuck, we need leaders Would you agree?

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I would? In fact, I
was just thinking about this very thing.

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I had the privileged privilege last week
cash of working with one of our clients.

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First, we as an organization,
got to help them develop their strategic

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frame for about sixteen years out from
in the future. And once they developed

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that strategic frame, amongst the senior
executives, they said, oh my gosh,

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if we're going to really execute this
and pull this off, we really

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need to bring up our bend strength
of leadership. So then of course we

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said about developing put in a program
around that to help them with their leadership

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development, because there was definitely a
gap, a chasm. I understand that.

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Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. Well, one of the things that I

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as we talk about your book,
I think it's probably also important that we

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get a perspective on your actual definition
of leadership. There are various ways to

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think about leadership, But when you
think about leadership or the way you talk

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about it, how do you define
I see leadership as moving people in a

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purposeful direction. I mean, leadership
implies movement, and I see it as

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getting people from where they are to
where they have not been. That's actually

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a quote of Henry Kissinger's, but
it's understanding where are we now, Grasping

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the reality of the situation that you
face, you know, the mission,

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that team, that you know yourself
without bias, you know, staring it

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in the face. That's, to
me, is the first step in leadership.

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The second is to envision success.
What do we headed for? What

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is our vision? Where do we
want to be? And there's obviously a

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tension there between being able to grasp
the reality of the situation versus focusing on

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the future and where we want to
be. And I think truly great leaders

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are able to do both. And
I mean, and that's a hard thing

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to accomplish. And then once that
that vision, that direction is set,

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how do I engage people to come
along on the journey with me? Or

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even if I'm leading myself, how
do I engage myself? How do I

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motivate myself to achieve I've got a
friend colleague who climbed Mount Everest and took

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several years of preparation. He even
wrote a book Finding your Everest or Finding

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my Everest, And I just that
took leadership to move him from you know,

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base camp to to that peak.
And then we've got a drive performance.

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And so as leaders it's not just
about we've got a goal and we

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need to move there. Do have
we set clear expectations? Have we put

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in place targets and metrics and things
that will make sure that we get to

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where we want to be? So
that's kind of how I see leadership.

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I appreciate that. And I don't
remember exactly you said it, but I

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was nodding my head vigorously over here
on the other end of the line here

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Cash, if you said something about
the fact that leadership entails taking people in

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a place they haven't been before,
something like that, that what you said,

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Yeah, okay, it is.
If it's just playing where you are,

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that's not leadership. You know,
we are striking boldly, going where

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no one has gone before. If
you want to use you know, the

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star modo, but it's it's taking
people forward, taking people in a direction.

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And if I don't know much about
physics, but you know a vector

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is mass times velocity. And if
you think about getting a critical mass of

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people moving. That to me takes
leadership. And you know, again inside

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organizations, like you said, once
you've got that strategic frame done, you've

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got to align the culture so we're
rewarding the behaviors that we want at the

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end of the day. Mm hmmmm. And one of the things that we

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certainly say here at Instignium is that
that path to leadership is you know,

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when you're bringing people along on that
journey that they haven't been on before,

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it can be a messy and for
people that really want something clean and crisp,

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that can be really, really uncomfortable
to be the leaders who's trying to

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spearhead have an effort right absolutely.
I refer to it in the book as

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a messy complexity, you know,
as Peter Drugger wants that people persist in

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behaving like humans, which means they're
diverse, they're different. I think that's

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one of the greatest understatements in the
world at least is people are different.

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Leaders are different, and that's going
to bring a complexity to a challenge to

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it that you know is a pretty
big one. I would say. The

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other thing I would add to you
is something I really have latched onto as

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a concept from the Army War College
called VUKA that we live in a volatile,

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uncertain, complex and ambiguous world and
that is challenging to lead into the

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unknown sometimes where we have not been
before. So yeah, it certainly is

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now you're starting to get into by
the way, Buka, So you cut

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out a little bit there when we're
speaking so volatile for the VI you is

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for one, volatile uncertainty is complex
and ambiguous. So that world that we

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live in and that leaders are challenged
to lead into. So you know,

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it's it's not you know, an
easy I will say, it's not difficult,

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but it's not easy either. You've
got to want to lead. And

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that's really my point in writing the
book is I want to help leaders get

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better, particularly next generation, new
emerging leaders. I want to give them

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the basics, the fundamentals, and
understand how their innate personality type can provide

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a lot of strengths, a lot
of help, but also foretast a lot

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of struggles that they're going to have
so that they can deal with them.

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I wanted to talk about that because
I know you n I certainly have both

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over the year's work with a fair
number of personality assessments, psychometric assessments,

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et cetera. And I'd love it
if you could say a little bit about

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personality type versus leader type leadership type. Can you compare distinguished hypology systems in

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the world, and I've used several. I love the quote by George Box.

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You know, all models are wrong, some are useful. So there's

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not going to be a perfect personality
typing system out there. And I want

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to stress too that with my system, it's not that you are one of

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these eight leader types. You have
all eight of them within you. And

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when I refer to someone's leader type, what I really mean by that is

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their dominant leader type. And where
this is coming from, Elise is Carl

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Jung in his book Psychological Types,
written almost one hundred years ago. It's

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considered one of the one hundred most
influential books, and it's the basis of

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the Myers Briggs typology. So what
I've done is, through my research and

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digging into Carl Jung, I've taken
his eight psychological types and asked what would

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that look like in leadership and so
the Myers Briggs I can you know,

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for those who are familiar with it, I can certainly provide those type codes

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as I go through if you know
those in the audience are familiar with that,

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Yes, certainly, and I know
we're going to We're going to We're

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going to dive in more deeply to
the actual eight leader types that you discover

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here after into the next segment.
Definitely want to do that. Is there

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anything else you want to say?
There's one more thing I want to get

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at, and that really gets to, you know, some of the premises

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about you that you assume about leadership. But before I get in it,

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and I wasn't sure if you there
was anything else you wanted to say about

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personality type versus leadership type. No, it's it's really how does your personality

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show up in leadership? That's what
I've tried to capture. And I'm a

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big believer that the single greatest driver
of someone's leadership style, of how they

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define and do leadership, is going
to be their personality type. You can't

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help it because it's the lens through
which you see the world. I love

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the quote by an Asmen. We
don't see the world as it is,

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We see the world as we are, And these are eight different lenses of

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the world ways of leading perspectives on
issues that I think are essential to leaders,

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but you've got to be aware of
them first. I think that is

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incredibly helpful cash just right there for
listeners to take a second and just really

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listen to what you just said there
about that our personalities being the lenses to

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our world. This is how we
see things, and therefore it's going to

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be how we tend to expect others
to do things for us. And I

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think that is as you say,
and being a very self aware that that's

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how we're going about it and thinking
about the extent that actually works for the

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situation what we're trying to accomplish.
I think is an incredibly useful piece of

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information you just gave. So that's
great cash. Thank you, And let

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me if I could follow up a
lease and say how that plays out.

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Yeah, Let's say, for example, you have a leader and she says,

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I want you to take the lead
on this. Now, she may

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be saying that out of her personality
type, which might be a take charge

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personality type. You might have a
persuasive person and so your approach, so

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you've got to get clear with people, here's how I operate, here's the

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lens. Here's the you know,
the worldview that I have based on my

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personality type. That's how I'm going
to approach it. Is that? How

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is that what you mean by take
the lead on this beautifully situated for us?

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Cash, Thank you for that,
and that gets into you know,

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it's one thing for us to know
which types we might be using or be

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more comfortable with. It's quite another
to think about how they might actually need

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to be adjusted or communicated to somebody
else to be effective. Really appreciate that.

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Yeah, absolutely, Now writing this
book and working in the field for

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twenty three years, as you have, Cash, I know that you and

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I have talked about some of this
over time. But if there's a few

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things that you think are important to
queue up about the premise that premises that

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you assume about leadership, so that
we have an understanding of kind of how

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you approach this space and how you
situated, that would probably be a good

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thing to talk about now before we
actually get into the types after the break.

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Sure, I would be happy too, and to do that at least

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I'd kind of maybe like to do
an exercise that I do in the classroom

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when I'm day one of an introduction
to leadership kind of class. I asked

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participants to list give me four or
five traits characteristics of a leader you would

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willingly follow, and I give them
some time to reflect and come up with

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their list of how would they describe, you know, their ideal leader,

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And then I ask for you know, people to nominate these various traits and

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characteristics. And here's what happens.
Not one trait will be common to half

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the people in the room on their
list. And what that tells me and

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what the point I try to get
across to leaders is leadership is incredibly subjective.

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We think our view is the only
view, or you know, the

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best view of the world, or
the only way to see leadership, when

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in fact people have multiple ways of
looking at leadership, so it is diverse.

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It is subjective, and therefore these
one size for it all prescriptions only

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fit the one person who wrote that
book or who that It really means.

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You've got to open up your mind
to different perspectives, I think is one

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of my big premises. And if
you're not aware of that, that you

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know, self awareness to me is
absolutely key. That is fantastic. And

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well, let's go ahead and stop
there for a quick break. But let

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me acknowledge what you just did their
cash. Just by helping us go through

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that exercise that you do with with
participants sessions, it's incredibly useful for us

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to all to start to distinguish,
as you say, trust house subjective leadership

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is, and how we each come
at it and want something different from it.

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So I really appreciate that you actually
brought us right to multiply that times

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the number of followers or direct reports
you have, then you have the idea

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of how many different views of leadership
you have to lead through. Right and

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on that note, hold your thought
there, gush time for our first break

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already. I'm your host, Jalie
Cortez. We've went on the air with

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00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.519
Cash Keihi, who has been working
with leaders around the globe to get better

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00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.599
at leadershi over the last twenty three
years. He's the author of the newly

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released book called eight Leader Types in
the White House, Discover and Leverage her

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Oval Office leadership Style. He joins
today from Dallas, Texas. We've been

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talking a bit about his perspective on
leader leadership and some of the key premises

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that he uses to be able to
distinguish what he talks about along with what

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it really takes to be a leader
in today's WUCA environment. After this next

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break, we're going to get into
those eight leader types. Staying with us,

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We'll be right back. Friend us
on Facebook to keep up with what's

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00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:48.599
empowering the world. Voice America Empowerment
Alice Cortez is a speaker and engagement and

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development catalyst. She designs and delivers
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can bring her expertise to your organization. She will help ignite meaningful development within

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or to invite Elise to speak to
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dot Elisecortes dot com. She would
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Cortes. To reach our program today, please call in to one triple eight

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Now back to working on purpose. Thanks

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00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:12.880
for staying with us, and welcome
back to working on purpose if you're just

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00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:17.079
showing us. My guest is Cash
Keihy, who has been working with leaders

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00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:19.240
around the globe to get better at
leadership. For the last twenty three years.

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He facilitated leadership workshops in twenty one
countries and on six continents for Fortune

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00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:29.400
three hundred companies. He's the author
of the newly released book called eight Leader

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Types in the White House, Discover
and Large your Oval Office leadership Style.

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I'm your host Alie Cortes, So
for this next piece here Cash, what

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I'd love to do for the listeners. As I've shared this show with various

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people on social media and to my
email network, what I said is come

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listen to find out where we're going
to talk about these eight leader types that

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Cash has found and may can get
an inkling as to which ones you might

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be employing. So let's get into
it. So first, how did you

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how did you actually arrive at eight
leader types? You've done research, so

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can you say a little bit about
how you actually got these eight new types?

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Sure I built into I was first
introduced to type through Myers Briggs and

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I was qualified certified to administer the
Myers Briggs Type indicator almost twenty years ago,

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but I deepened into Carl jung and
his eight psychological type. So this

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is a reimagining of the eight types
in leadership. What would this type have?

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And at the same time, I'm
very interested in politics and the son

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of a Louisiana politician, and I
was fascinated with a book that I picked

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up about twelve years ago called Personality, Character and Leadership. In the White

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House, Psychologists Assess the President,
and I thought this was fascinating and I

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immediately wanted to translate that into Myers
Briggs types and Jungian types. And it

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was done in the Big five,
the five factor model, if anyone is

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familiar with that. So I had
to translate that into Myers Briggs types,

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and lo and behold what I found
was in the top ten US presidents of

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all time were eight different personality types
or leader types as I call them.

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And that was significant for me in
itself because I had been asked one time,

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because personality type is part of the
leadership programs that I teach, what's

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the best type for a leader to
be? And I stumbled on the question

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because I wanted to say, no
matter what your type, you can be

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a great leader, but I didn't
have the data to back it up.

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Well, with this book and with
the further research that I've done, I

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can now answer that question and say, no matter what your personality type,

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there's a great leader that you can
learn from. There is someone like you

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who has led significantly. And so
the book is simply you know, one

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chapter on each one of these leaders, how their leader type emerged, and

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what it looks like. So if
you want me to, I can go

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through them. Your listeners can pick
out which you know sounds like them?

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Would you know the ones they resonate
with? And again, let me say

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that you are not just one of
these. One of them will likely be

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dominant in your personality, but if
you evolve and grow over your lifetime,

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you're going to incorporate all eight of
these into who you are, into your

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authentics. Also, does that sound
good? It sound sounds great. I

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definitely want to make sure we cover
all eight types because, as I mentioned,

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as I was sharing this episode with
listeners, I told them they were

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going to get a a snippet of
each one of the So please go for

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it, okay. So the first
one is what I call the prudent leader

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type. This is someone who is
very stabilizing, conscientious. Think of them

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as the guardian of the group.
They value duty and responsibility, tradition.

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They're very much They're very calm,
dependable, often humble, usually trustworthy.

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They put a lot of emphasis on
leading by example. They base a lot

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of this on their proven experience.
So this leader type, the prudent leader

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type, values information, you know, detailed information, and they specialize in

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things. They become repositories of tremendous
knowledge. And the prudent leader type,

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this would be introverted sensing. If
you're familiar with the types, or is

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TJ or is FJ if you're familiar
with Myers Briggs types, that would be

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the prudent leader type. And that's
George Washington, believe it or not.

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I if George Washington would have had
Excel spreadsheets, he would have run Mount

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Vernon in the Revolutionary War with Excel. He just he loved data in detailed

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documentation, and that kind of you
know, highlights a key feature this leader

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type. Shall I go on wonderful? Yeah? Please? So that's prudent.

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Just to gain for our listeners that
that type is good. The next

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one is proactive, and this leader
is very pragmatic. They're energizing, uh

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facilitating something happening right now. I
mean, they're very enterprising, uh bold.

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They want a quick win, so
they value action, urgency, efficiency,

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spontaneity, variety. They love variety, and they never want to be

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bored and they're always going to want
to have things going on that is proactive.

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They have a bias for action.
And the quote from Andrew Jackson I

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think sums it up really well.
He is the proactive leader type that I

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feature. When the time for action
arrives, stop thinking and go in.

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And so that's the proactive leader type. The next would be the innovation Okay,

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by the way, let me give
the Myers Briggs that's extroverted sensing,

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which would be an ESTP or an
es FP for those who are familiar with

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the Myers Briggs types. The next
would be innovating leader type. And the

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innovating leader type is the pioneer uh
the one who is the transformative catalyst who

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latches on to the next big idea. So there you know, they move

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into the new UH. In in
this case, it was Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

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And and listen to this litany of
news from presidents that I found.

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Shared this with FDR. You know, FDR, it was the new Deal.

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John Kennedy was about the new frontier. Reagan led in a new direction,

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and Clinton was a new Democrat.
You see how they want to be

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about whatever is new and is leading
edge. They're very optimistic. They're a

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change agent. So that is the
innovating leader type. Next up is the

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visions Okay, so the next up
is the visionary leader type. This would

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be I hate to keep going back. Innovating would have been extroverted intuition,

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which is e NTP or e NFP. The visionary leader type would be introverted

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intuition and it would be I INTJ
or FJ. And these are really hard

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to read leaders. In case in
point, it's Thomas Jefferson, very enigmatic,

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paradoxical, but incredibly inventive. Their
intuition is very strong, but it's

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a deep, complex intuition. They're
very intentional. They lead with a lot

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of foresight, so that visionary aspect
is their ability to see into the future.

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One of my favorite quotes is from
Steven Spielberg, he said, I

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dream for a living. Thomas Jefferson
said, I prefer the dreams of the

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future to the history of the past. So that's the leader time, Okay,

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the inclusive leader type. What's moved
on is introverted feeling. This would

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be an I n f P or
an I s FP. In terms of

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Myers Briggs, this is your classic
servant leader. Very authentic, very compassionate,

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puts a high emphasis on fairness,
values, diversity, and respect for

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individuals. They're big on internal harmony. They're often very often self deprecating,

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self sacrificing, very steady in a
crisis. And in Abraham Lincoln is the

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for me, the epitome of inclusive
leader type. And I make the point

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in the book that he was inclusive
on three levels. One, he was

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inclusive about who it meant to be
human an American in including slaves in the

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American dream, so he was inclusive
in that way. He was also inclusive

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that the South couldn't just opt out
of the Union. He was going to

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include them even if they wished to
be excluded. And finally, as Doris

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00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:36.799
Kerns Goodwin pointed out in her book
Team of Rivals, he was incredibly inclusive

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with his leadership team, and so
that's why I use him as the example

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of the inclusive meter type. Next
up is persuasive. So the persuasive leader

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type is extroverted feeling. That's Jung's
type. This would be es f J

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or e n f J. Very
affirming, very cooperative, very tactful,

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00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:10.640
influencer. They put a lot of
emphasis on trust, on trusting relationships.

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They're very passionate, committed, they
seek loyalty, and they want loyalty,

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so they're harmonizing, nurturing. Probably
your natural coaches mentors, lots of warmth

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and empathy, and that would be
Harry Truman and the quote. Interestingly,

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Harry Truman wrote a book on leadership. He defined leadership and he said,

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00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:45.200
to the persuasive leader type, a
leader is someone who has the ability to

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00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:50.480
get other people to do what they
don't want to do and like it.

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00:32:51.599 --> 00:33:00.519
So that's the persuasive leader type.
Then we got to the take charge leader

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00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:07.119
type, and this would be the
driver, the very delegating, results oriented

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00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:16.200
mover shaker. They are assertive,
they lead with tremendous conviction from their principles.

387
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:22.759
They're to make it happen leader and
not just do it my way because

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00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:29.039
I say so. They have tremendous
structure. They set out the plans,

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00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:34.039
the goals, they lay out the
challenge, and they take on challenges,

390
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:39.839
they move into them, and they're
very candid and they're very clarifying of what

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00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:45.920
needs to happen in holding people accountable. And that would be Theodore Roosevelt,

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00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:51.440
and one of my favorite quotes of
his is the best executive has the sense

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00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:55.759
to pick good people and self restraint
enough to keep from meddling with them while

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00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:01.799
they do it. So that's at
a Roosevelt. The take charge leater type.

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00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:10.320
That would be ES TJ and Ian
TJ extroverted thinking. And finally there's

396
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:16.320
the independent leader type. And the
independent leader type is introverted thinking, which

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00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:22.840
would be is TP or I INTP. From a Meers Briggs perspective, these

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00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:29.960
are very analytical, self reliant thought
leaders and goal achievers. If I might

399
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.039
add, they're very much about clarity. They want things to be logical.

400
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:42.239
They look at issues from multiple perspectives, but they value autonomy. They're very

401
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:50.559
skeptical, they're you know, can
be iconoclastic, but they want accuracy.

402
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.920
They're very good with clarifying, and
they're good with critique, even critique in

403
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:02.719
themselves. They tend to be very
perfectionist. And this would be John Adams

404
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:09.079
in a very strong thinking time.
What questions do you have? I hope

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00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:15.559
I didn't go through too fast or
no. That was that was splendid cash

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00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:16.960
and we have just a comments before
were going on to our next break.

407
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:22.679
And I thought that was incredibly articulate. I really appreciated how you presenced each

408
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:25.519
of the eight I before you even
said the Meyers brig types, I know

409
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:29.159
what my two are. Do you
want to try to guess or do you

410
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:30.639
want you want me just to tell
you. I would love to hear your

411
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:36.920
thoughts. I want to know it's
it was really easy when you were going

412
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:43.519
through proactive and take charge. I
kind of figured that might be to work

413
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:50.039
with you really resemble quite a bit. Would read the chapter on Andrew Jackson

414
00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:54.840
because he had a lot of both
of those. He was a real survivor

415
00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:00.320
and anyway, very interesting history.
There was a little little bit of the

416
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:05.400
inclusive that I thought I could identify
with as well. I think that's there.

417
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:07.239
Certainly can recognize aspects. When I
was determined of the board of the

418
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:13.440
WYMCA, that I certainly could say
was present for that as well as when

419
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:15.880
I was president of adle lake Wood
Service League. I think that I could

420
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:21.280
recognize some of that there too well. And that's where you and I would

421
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:24.280
have things in common and why I
believe I click sometimes with people. Is

422
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:32.440
proactive and inclusive are my two leader
types, which serves me well as a

423
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:37.679
facilitator. You know, I want
to make sure everyone in the room feels

424
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:43.000
included. And I'm very pragmatic about
what we have to achieve, you know,

425
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:46.639
in the time, but I'm open, I'm flexible. So another thought

426
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:50.159
that I had, and you said
something about over the life, over our

427
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:54.400
lifetimes, we might develop I forget
exactly how you said that might develop into

428
00:36:54.440 --> 00:37:00.280
all eight types. Another thought that
I had was can or do leaders change

429
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:05.960
their type? And if so,
under what conditions how well? And I

430
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:12.159
think you know, a significant event
can shape a leader. You know,

431
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.920
there's this idea that leaders need to
be twice born, that they need to

432
00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:22.519
go through a significant struggle and come
out of that on the other end to

433
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:24.559
be fully who they need to be. And I take a look at that

434
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:30.400
in each chapter about the Presidents,
I look at what was happening to them

435
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:36.360
at midlife and what was the transition
for them. For example, with FDR,

436
00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:42.320
that's the age at which he came
down with polio and so coming through

437
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:45.159
that struggle and coming out on it, you know, the other side,

438
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:52.920
becoming president. That to me shows
his tremendous tenacity and development as a leader.

439
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:59.719
I don't believe that leaders become a
different type, but you become a

440
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:05.960
more complete leader, a more complete
person. And the goal isn't you know,

441
00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:12.440
perfection, It is completion that I
so there's more nuance. But there's

442
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:16.199
actually a sequence that I point to
in the book that can give leaders a

443
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:22.800
clue as to what stage or which
leader type they're at, depending on,

444
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:28.679
you know, their stage of life. I cannot wait to read the book.

445
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:30.800
Cash. I'm just really impressed with
us and joining the conversation. And

446
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:36.000
here we are already at the next
break. I'm Alice Corte as your host,

447
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:37.639
who've been on the air with cash
Key heat who has been working with

448
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:42.800
leaders around the globe to get better
at leadership for the last twenty three years.

449
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.559
He is the author of the newly
released book called Eight Leader Types in

450
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:49.920
the White House. Discover and leverage
your orbal office leadership style. He joined

451
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:53.519
us today from Dallas, Texas.
We've been talking about his eight year types

452
00:38:53.559 --> 00:38:57.239
that he's discovered and detailed in his
book. After the break, we're going

453
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:01.079
to get more into the application,
into the leadership. Spae Ie, stay

454
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:15.840
with us, We'll be right back. We're on Facebook along with some of

455
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:19.480
the greatest minds of the world,
and that includes you. Visit us on

456
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:25.000
Facebook at Voice America Empowerment, Alis
Cortes is a speaker and engagement and development

457
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:30.800
catalyst. She designs and delivers professional
development, leadership and engagement workshops and can

458
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:36.639
bring her expertise to your organization.
She will help ignite meaningful development within your

459
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:40.840
workforce that will increase employee engagement,
performance and retention. To learn more or

460
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:45.639
to invite Elise to speak to your
organization, please visit her at www dot

461
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:52.239
Elisecortes dot com. She would welcome
the opportunity to help get your employees working

462
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:57.400
on purpose. We're making it easier
to listen to the Voice American Talk radio

463
00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:00.159
network wherever you go. In addition
to listening live, you can check out

464
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:05.519
information about your favorite talk show hosts, discover new talk show personalities at shows

465
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466
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467
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468
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America Mold Last powered by air Cast
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469
00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:40.719
and connected on our Lively Award winning
Healthy Living Power Hour Star Style Be the

470
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:46.079
star you are with host and empowerment
architect Cindya Brian, live every Wednesday at

471
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:51.559
four pm Pacific on the Voice America
Empowerment Channel. Tune into the Power Party

472
00:40:51.599 --> 00:41:05.239
for positive, uplifting, life changing
talk radio. Visit Starstyle Radio dot com.

473
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:16.519
It's your world, Motivate, change, succeed. Voice America Empowerment dot

474
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:31.280
com. This is Working on Purpose
with Elise Cortes. To reach our program

475
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:36.519
today, please call in to one
triple eight three four six nine one four

476
00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:40.440
one Again that's one triple eight three
four six nine one four one. You

477
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:46.719
may also send an email to elease
A l I S E at Eleisecortes dot

478
00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:55.440
com. Now back to Working on
Purpose. Thanks christin being with us and

479
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:59.679
welcome back to working on Purpose.
If you're just tuning in. My guest

480
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.719
is a kih who has been working
with leaders around the globe to get better

481
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:06.719
at leadership. For the last twenty
three years. He's facilitated leadership with workshops

482
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:10.719
in twenty one countries on six continents
for Fortune three hundred companies. Very impressive.

483
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:14.840
The author of the only release book
called eight Leader Types in the White

484
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:19.320
House Discover and Leverage your Oval office
leadership style. I'm your host at least

485
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:23.159
court tays so Cash. Before the
break, you were kind enough to delineate

486
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:29.119
the eight leader types. That was
incredibly useful for me and for our listeners.

487
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:32.480
What I want to do next here
is really get more into the application

488
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:37.440
of this stuff. How do we
actually use this stuff to become more effective

489
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:40.920
to change So one of the things
that you and I were talking about on

490
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:45.039
the break is just, you know, the sheer privilege it is to get

491
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:49.519
to be to work in the space
that we do to developing leaders, to

492
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.440
be on the journey with them.
I mean that precious intimate space where somebody

493
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:59.119
is growing and being vulnerable and putting
themselves out there and you know, leaping

494
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:02.559
into the wild blue yonder whatever's next. And I just really cherish that,

495
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:07.159
and I know you too, so
I thought it would be interesting if maybe

496
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:10.440
you could share a couple examples of
leaders that you've known or even worked with

497
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:16.920
who have maybe made a sizable transformation
in their leadership. I know I would

498
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:24.079
start with my father, who I
think began life as an extroverted, very

499
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:30.639
proactive, active, kind of take
charge leader, and as his life evolved

500
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:38.280
in his work and became much more
involved at a political level, he transferred

501
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:44.320
into a thought leader that very much
an independent And I believe there's an arc

502
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:50.039
of development that every leader goes through
that if you start off your life as

503
00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:53.199
an extrovert, you're not going to
become an introvert later on, but you

504
00:43:53.280 --> 00:44:00.320
will certainly incorporate more of that introverted
tendency and vice versa. If you start

505
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:06.679
off your life introverted, you will
likely end up incorporating a lot of extraversion

506
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:12.159
later on in life. So I
do believe in this developmental process. I

507
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:16.719
think it's a cumulative sequence events,
and basically what's happening is the first half

508
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:21.199
of life is figuring out I think
Jung said, you know, the first

509
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:25.360
forty years is just research. It's
figuring out who am I and the ego.

510
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:30.880
This is when the ego gets established, and it's at midlife. And

511
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.360
whenever that happens, you know,
thirty five, thirty eight, forty something

512
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:40.880
like that, there are these unconscious
you know, proddings that are percolating up

513
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:45.320
within you that are saying, is
this all there is to life? Do

514
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:50.760
I need to be more? And
for a leader, that's re examining what

515
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:57.639
has been my leader types and what
could they be going forward, and that

516
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:05.320
there's more to your story and how
do I pursue that? Now? The

517
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:12.400
interesting I saw this in some of
these presidents very incredibly. Harry Truman was

518
00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:16.880
one. Uh, I could just
see the stages of his development. But

519
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:22.719
even when Harry Truman got to the
decision about the atomic bomb, he was

520
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:30.880
missing John Adams and Thomas Jefferson.
And that lease is, you know,

521
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:36.079
to me, is the application that
I would hope for leaders. It's not

522
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.760
just a matter of knowing this is
my dominant leader type, or these are

523
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:45.159
my two or three supporting leader types. It's which one is my achilles heel?

524
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:52.760
Which one or two? And for
Harry Truman's type, he was missing

525
00:45:52.440 --> 00:46:01.079
that critical you know, explanation and
logic around the decision in which cities to

526
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:07.320
bomb, and he was missing out
on Thomas Jefferson's long range vision. What

527
00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:13.280
are the strategic consequences? Because Harry
Truman was a very practical, down to

528
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:19.119
earth, prudent, persuasive kind of
leader. Does that make sense that just

529
00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:24.719
how these come into play in real
life decision? It does, and it's

530
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:28.400
great, cash This is exactly what
I was hoping for to share with our

531
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:36.920
listeners. So yes, please,
so I see that in organizations if you

532
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:42.480
realize these are my strengths, these
are the leader types that I call on.

533
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:46.920
It's great if the situation you're in
demands that. But let's say you're

534
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:52.920
in a situation that's very different from
what your leader type is comfortable with.

535
00:46:52.960 --> 00:47:00.320
You either need to pull that up
from within you or make sure you've got

536
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:06.400
someone on your team that is providing
that voice. And in the book,

537
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:15.960
I take readers through a strategic planning
process using all eight of the leader types

538
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:22.360
and what their perspective is. If
I could let me just share very quickly

539
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:28.320
run through in a strategic plan,
this is what each one is going to

540
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:34.480
provide. The prudent leader knows how
we got where we are and what our

541
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:38.519
strengths and weaknesses are and is going
to caution us against risks. The proactive

542
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:45.519
leader has a grasp of the immediate
situation and can identify what's the most pressing

543
00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:53.760
threats and opportunities. The innovating leader
sees various scenarios of how the world could

544
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:58.960
evolve. They can connect the dots. They see what needs to change in

545
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:04.719
the organization. The visionary leader sees
more the in game. How is this

546
00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:09.239
going to play out? What's our
true vision of how we want the world

547
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:15.480
to look like. The inclusive leader
make sure that we all protect the values

548
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:22.400
that matter most in the organization.
The persuasive leader make sure the culture is

549
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:28.960
aligned around the strategy, and the
take charge leader is setting stretch goals,

550
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:36.360
implementing the strategy, seeing how it
needs to be implemented, and making sure

551
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:42.679
everyone takes ownership. Finally, the
independent leader is going to make sure we

552
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:47.480
have a balance scorecard to check how
we've done. But can you see where

553
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:53.840
if you're missing one of those leader
types on your management team, you won't

554
00:48:53.840 --> 00:49:00.599
see the need for that perspective or
that step in the strategic planning process.

555
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:07.360
I do see that, and I
absolutely understand that the beauty of having a

556
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:12.599
diverse team. And I really appreciate
what you just said to about if you

557
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.639
don't have that particular type, you
won't actually be able to see that there's

558
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:19.320
a missing from that from that vantage
point, we just will it will not

559
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.679
be visible to you. And I
think that's incredibly important to point out to

560
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:28.039
our listeners and anyone want to say, assembling a team. Yes, And

561
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:31.920
that's what I try to highlight for
leaders is when I'm coaching them, what

562
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:37.639
are you missing? What you know? What are your unknown unknowns? Uh

563
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:43.199
and And a lot of leadership literature
this day these days is saying leaders need

564
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:49.760
to pay more attention to their unconscious
and their development, you know, into

565
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:55.039
and out of that unconscious. So
I would just say this is really important

566
00:49:55.119 --> 00:50:02.440
for leaders to understand not only their
their strengths, but their gaps and to

567
00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:07.599
explore that and have those voices around
them. I had to say that,

568
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:12.159
you know, it takes a village
if you want to get a village of

569
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:21.679
diverse leader types to get the best
overall decision. Mm hmm. One of

570
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:24.280
the things that I get that people
ask me, I'd love for you to

571
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:28.199
weigh in on this from your perspective. I think I know what it is.

572
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:32.000
But let's just see. Do you
are you of the persuasion that anyone

573
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:39.079
can be a leader? You know? I struggle with that question, you

574
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:45.440
know, I I know we need
leaders at all levels. I will say

575
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:51.800
though, that the one thing that
came true through loud and clear about all

576
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:54.920
eight of these presidents, you know
you Yes, they were very diverse,

577
00:50:55.519 --> 00:51:04.360
but they were all ambitious. They
wanted to achieve something, They wanted to

578
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:08.039
make their mark, They wanted to
influence an outcome. Do you see what

579
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:12.679
I mean? So that when we
say can anyone be a leader? I

580
00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:22.039
would say yes, if they have
that drive, that desire to impact their

581
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:28.159
world, to influence an outcome.
Does that how does that ring with what

582
00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:34.239
you think? Yeah? I really
appreciate the way you articulated that cash I

583
00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:38.119
think that, Yeah, I mean
want to influence an outcome? Yes?

584
00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:43.199
Now what I also think is interesting? And then I had a follow up

585
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:45.239
question about you know, and or
should people want to be a leader.

586
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:51.599
I sometimes wonder about maybe some of
folks who if that's if they're not coming

587
00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:55.639
in it is to influence an outcome, but rather maybe there's other other drivers

588
00:51:55.719 --> 00:51:58.840
there I'm not. You know,
there's various ways you could look at those

589
00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:02.559
drivers. Maybe are healthy and maybe
some we're not healthy. I like the

590
00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:08.519
way that you pointed the direction want
to influence an outcome? What if well,

591
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:10.199
I guess never mind, I was
going to say, what if that

592
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:16.440
outcome is more personally oriented than organizationally
oriented? Does it matter? Yeah?

593
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:22.480
But I think I think what you're
getting at there is is their need for

594
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:30.920
power really directed themselves and I want
power for myself, or is it directed

595
00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:36.199
at the general for the general good
of everyone? And that's where I,

596
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:40.440
you know, come down trying to
help people understand what is it that they

597
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:46.320
really want? Yeah, I ask
one of those in my class at the

598
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:52.840
very beginning, why you want to
be a leader is an important question that

599
00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:57.599
you need to answer. And if
you're wanting it for power, or for

600
00:52:57.800 --> 00:53:04.280
status or for you know, I've
got some serious concerns you. If you

601
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:09.920
are wanting to achieve something greater than
you could achieve by yourself. Great and

602
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:16.400
Jack Welch, there's a great video
on he was being interviewed by the head

603
00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:22.960
of the Stanford Business School and you
can find this on YouTube. He talks

604
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:27.360
about this becoming a leader, and
he says, before you become a leader,

605
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:34.800
it's all about you and your job
and what you are doing. But

606
00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:39.159
the day you become a leader,
it's about them. And you get a

607
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:46.559
kick out of growing people and seeing
them achieve something that was impossible or you

608
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:52.679
thought not likely. So you see
what I mean. The intent and the

609
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:58.440
interest I think has to be focused
outward, not on me and what can

610
00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:02.079
I get out of this? Does
that resonate with you? Yes, yes,

611
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:07.159
it absolutely does. And you were
able to put language around what I

612
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:13.039
was trying to express and present them, so that was wonderful. We are

613
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:16.360
almost out of time, cash,
and I like to give my guests the

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00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:19.960
last word, if you will,
so, knowing that the show is all

615
00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:22.840
about helping the listeners more meaningfully and
productively connect with their work, what would

616
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:25.760
you like to leave our listeners with
today and maybe say a minute or list

617
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:32.920
Sure, thank you again, at
least for making this opportunity possible. I

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00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:38.440
would say, you know, leadership
isn't difficult, but it's harder than just

619
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:43.320
doing your job. It requires you
to step out of your comfort zone.

620
00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:46.760
But I believe there's a lot of
rewards that can come with that. It's

621
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:51.719
where a lot of learning can happen. I would say, if you have

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00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:55.400
a cause you believe in and an
idea that won't wait, or you want

623
00:54:55.440 --> 00:55:00.280
to accomplish something and you realize you
can't do it alone, that's the feed

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00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:05.880
of leadership. And once you realize
that and step up to the plate,

625
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:12.159
I would say, just be that
authentic leader version of yourself. Trust the

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00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:16.519
leader in you, and I think
others will put their trust in your leadership.

627
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:20.719
Gorgeous way to finish. Cash,
Thank you so much, and I'm

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00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:22.320
delighted to have you on my show. Thank you for joining me and sharing

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00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:27.480
your wisdom and your heart with our
listeners. Absolutely happy to do so.

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00:55:28.239 --> 00:55:30.480
If you want to learn more about
Cash kh and his work developing leaders or

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00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:37.320
his newly released book, visit his
website. It's www dot leader type dot

632
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:40.679
com again leader type dot com.
Next week we'll be on there with Mario

633
00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:45.119
McCracken of Move Medical and he's also
a contributing writer to inc. We'll be

634
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:49.760
talking more about leadership and just really
what it takes to build really effective teams.

635
00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:52.440
So see it. Then remember that
work is at least one third of

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00:55:52.440 --> 00:56:01.079
our lives. So let's work on
Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's

637
00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:05.880
program. Be sure to tune in
too. Working on Purpose featuring your host,

638
00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:09.960
Elise Cortes every Wednesday at six pm
Eastern Time three pm Pacific Time on

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00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:15.079
the Voice America Empowerment Channel. This
week, find your life's purpose at work.