Do You Know Your Leader Types

WEBVTT

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. Great

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to have you. I'm your host, Elise Krz, joining from Dallas,

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Texas, which is home based for
me. This program is all about helping

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people more meaningfully and productively connected with
their work and equipping organizations to do the

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same for their employees. So I
bring on guests to have a particular perspective

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or experience that I think expands the
conversation, and I often draw on the

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meeting and work research I've been doing
over the last fifteen years, as well

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as my own experience and consulting,
including the work I do today at in

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Zinim, which is a global management
consulting firm. I'll get to the program

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in just a moment. But let
me thank my media partner and sponsor,

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jobbing dot Com. They are the
leading locally focused focused joboard in the nisition

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and they are dedicated to helping employers
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giving job seeers control over their search
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Great partnership. Thank you jobbing dot
Com. Last week, if you

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missed the show line, you can
always catch it via recorded podcast. We

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were on the air with Chimo Kippen, who was an advocate for lifelong learning

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and talent development. He is the
former Chief Learning Officer and Vice President of

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Global Workforce Initiatives at Hilton. We
talked about what he's learned over his extensive

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career developing a workforce and his perspective
on the future of the workforce with such

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disruptions as artificial intelligence and robotics.
With us this week is Cash Kehi.

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He is the president of Khat Consulting
Group. He has enjoyed a career working

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with leaders around the globe to get
better at leading. He's the author of

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the newly released book eight Leader Types
in the White House. We'll be talking

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about those leadership types and what Cash
has learned about the field of leadership in

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his career. He joined us to
day from Dallas, Texas. Cash,

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Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank
you very much, Julie. It is

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a pleasure to have you. I've
known you for a couple of years now,

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and I know you've been working hard
at this book, and I'm so

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happy for you that it's out.
It's here. Congratulations on that monumental achievement.

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Let's start with that. Thank you. It's a great feeling to accomplish

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a goal that you've said twelve years
ago. So glad you're part of it.

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Twelve years you bet. Oh my
gosh, this is that. This

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is a day. Let's each of
us crack up in a bottle of champagne

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later and toast from l across the
fair city of Balts. All right,

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Well, before we talk about the
work you've done in your twenty three years

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of leadership, you've been in that
space for a good amount of time and

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you've learned a lot. I want
to start off by presencing the actual topic

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for our listeners. Cash, why
do you think leadership is so important today?

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You know, I think we want
progress, If we want things to

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get better, it's not just going
to happen on its own. You know,

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someone has to step up, someone
has to take the lead, and

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the need is just widespread. You
know, in the political sphere we see

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stalemate lot, you know, a
lack of progress. In organizations, I'm

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sure you can relate, there's a
lot of inertia, comfort with the status

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quo. So leaders and not managers
are needed there, and they're needed at

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every level. I'm a big believer
that leadership doesn't just happen at the top.

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It has to happen throughout organizations,
especially when those organizations are flatter matrix

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global. And then there are movements
that need leaders. I think the title

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of Seth Godin's book, I couldn't
believe it has been a ten years since

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he wrote it tried, we need
you to lead Us. I think it's

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very important for leaders to connect people
and affect change. So that's the main

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reason. I also think C level
executives realized this. I just got a

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study today, at least a survey
of a thousand C level executives who were

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asked out of a laundry list of
issues, you know, like cybersecurity,

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terrorism, global uncertainty, or whatever, what they felt was the most pressing

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issue facing their organizations, and they
said, developing next gen leaders. So

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I think it's you know, it's
it's a real need out there. If

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we want to see things get better, to get unstuck, we need leaders.

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Would you agree? I would?
In fact, I was just thinking

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about this very thing. I had
the privilege, privilege last week cash of

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working with one of our clients.
First, we as an organization got to

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help them develop their strategic frame for
about sixteen years out from into the future.

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And once they developed that strategic frame, amongst the senior executives, they

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said, oh my gosh, if
we're going to really execute this and pull

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this off, we really need to
bring up our bench strength of leadership.

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So then of course we set about
developing put in a program around that to

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help them with their leadership development,
because there was definitely a gap, a

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chasm. I understand that. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. Well, one

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of the things that I as we
talk about your book, I think it's

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probably also important that we get a
perspective on your your actual definition of leadership.

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There are various ways to think about
leadership. But when you think about

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leadership or the way you talk about
it, how do you define I see

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leadership as moving people in a purposeful
direction. I mean, leadership implies movement,

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and I see it as getting people
from where they are so where they

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have not been. That's actually a
quote of Henry Kisseners. But it's you

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know, understanding where are we now, grasping the reality of the situation that

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you face, you know the mission
that tee that you know yourself without bias,

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you know, staring it in the
face. That's, to me is

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the first step in leadership. The
second is to envision success. What are

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we headed for? What is our
vision? Where do we want to be?

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And there's obviously a tension there between
being able to grasp the reality of

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the situation versus focusing on the future
and where we want to be. And

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I think truly great leaders are able
to do both. And I mean,

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and that's a hard thing to accomplish. And then once that that vision,

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that direction has set, how do
I engage people to come along on the

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journey with me? Or even if
I'm leading myself, how do I engage

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myself? How do I motivate myself
to achieve I've got a friend colleague who

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climbed Mount Everest and took several years
of preparation. He even wrote a book,

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Finding Your Everest or Finding My Everest, and it just that took leadership

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to move him from you know,
base camp to that peak. And then

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we've got to drive performance. And
so as leaders it's not just about we've

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got a goal and we need to
move there. Do have we set clear

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expectations? Have we put in place
targets and metrics and things that will make

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sure that we get to where we
want to be. So that's kind of

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how I see leadership. I appreciate
that. And I don't remember exactly you

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said it, but I was nodding
my head vigorously over here on the together

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end of the line, your cash. You sold something about the fact that

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leadership entails taking people in a place
they haven't been before, something like us

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that what you said, Yeah,
okay, it is. If it's just

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a thing where you are, that's
not leadership. It you know, we

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are striking boldly, going where no
one has gone before. If you want

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to use you know, the star
trek mode, but it's it's taking people

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forward, taking people in a direction. And if I don't know much about

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physics, but you know, a
vector is mass times velocity and if you

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think about getting a critical mass of
people moving that, to me, it

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takes leadership. And you know,
again inside organizations, like you said,

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once you've got that strategic frame done, you've got to align the culture so

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we're rewarding the behaviors that we want
at the end of the day. And

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one of the things that we certainly
say here an Insignium is that that path

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to leadership is you know, when
you're bringing people along on that journey that

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they haven't been on before, it
can be messy. And for people that

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really want something clean and crisp,
that can be really, really uncomfortable to

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be the leader who's who's trying to
spearhead that have an effort right. Absolutely.

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I refer to it in the book
as a messy complex cy. You

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know, as Peter Drugger wants that
people persist in behaving like humans, which

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means they're diverse, they're different.
I think that's one of the greatest understatements

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in the world at least is people
are different. Leaders are different, and

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that's going to bring a complexity to
a challenge to it that you know is

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a pretty big one. I would
say. The other thing I would add

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to you is something I really have
latched onto as a concept from the Army

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War College called VOCA that we live
in a volatile, uncertain, complex and

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ambiguous world and that is challenging to
lead into the unknown sometimes where we have

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not been before. So yeah,
it certainly is now you're starting to get

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into by the way, Boca,
So you cut out a little bit there

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when we're speaking. So volatile for
the view you is for allful uncertainty is

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complex and ambiguous. So the world
that we live in and that leaders are

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challenged to lead into. So you
know, it's it's not, you know,

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an easy job. I will say, it's not difficult, but it's

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not easy either. You've got to
want to lead. And that's really my

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point in writing the book is I
want to help leaders get better, particularly

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next generation, new emerging leaders.
I want to give them the basics,

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the fundamentals, and understand how their
their innate personality type can provide a lot

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of strengths, a lot of help, but also forecast a lot of struggles

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that they're going to have so that
they can deal with them. I wanted

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to talk about that because I know
you and I I only have both over

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the year's work with a fair number
of personality assessments, psychometric assessments, etc.

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And I'd love it if you could
say a little bit about personality type

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versus leader type leadership type. Can
you compare best distinguishment typology systems in the

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world, and I've used several.
I love the quote by George Box.

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You know, all models are wrong, some are useful. So there's not

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going to be a perfect personality typing
system out there. And I want to

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stress too that with my system,
it's not that you are one of these

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eight leader types. You have all
eight of them within you. And when

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I refer to someone's leader type,
what I really mean by that is their

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dominant leader type. And where this
is coming from, Elise is Carl Jung

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in his book Psychological Types, written
almost a hundred years ago. It's considered

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one of the one hundred most influential
books ever written, and it's the basis

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of the Myers Briggs typology. So
what I've done is, through my research

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and digging into Carl Young, I've
taken his eight psychological types and ask what

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would that look like in leadership and
and so the Myers Briggs I can you

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know, for those who are familiar
with it, I can certainly provide those

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type codes as I go through.
If you know those in the audience are

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familiar with that, Yes, certainly. And I know we're gonna we're gonna

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we're gonna dive inn more deeply to
the actual eight lead your types that you

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discover here after into the next segment. I definitely want to do that.

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Is there anything else you want to
say? There's one more thing I want

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to get at, and that really
gets to the you know, some of

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the premises about you that you assume
about leadership. But before I get it,

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I wasn't sure if there was anything
else you wanted to say about personality

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type versus leadership type. No,
it's it's really how does your personality show

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up in leadership? That's what I
tried to capture. And I'm a big

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believer that the single greatest driver of
someone's leadership style, of how they define

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and do leadership, is going to
be their personality. Time. You can't

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help it, because it's the lens
through which you see the world. I

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love the quote by as Nin We
don't see the world as it is,

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We see the world as we are
and these are eight different lenses of the

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world, ways of leading perspectives on
issues that I think are essential to leaders,

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but you've got to be aware of
them first. I think that is

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incredibly helpful cash for just right there
for the listeners to take a second and

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just really listen to what you just
said there about that our personalities being the

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lenses to our world. This is
how we see things, and therefore it's

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going to be how we tend to
expect others to do things for us.

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And I think that is as you
say, and being very self aware that

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that's how we're going about it,
and think thinking about the extent which that

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actually works for the situation what we're
trying to accomplish. I think is an

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incredibly useful piece of information you just
gave. So that's great cash, Thank

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you, And let me if I
could follow up a lease and say how

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that plays out. Let's say,
for example, you have a leader and

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she says, I want you to
take the lead on this. Now,

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she may be saying that out of
her personality type, which might be a

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take charge personality TIPE. You might
have a persuasive person and so your your

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approach. So you've got to get
clear with people. Here's how I operate,

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Here's the lens, here's the you
know, the worldview that I have

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based on my personality time. That's
how I'm going to approach it. Is

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that? How is that what you
mean by take the lead on this beautifully

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situated for us? Cash, Thank
you for that and that that gets into

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you know, it's one thing for
us to know which types we might be

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using or be more comfortable with.
It's quite another to think about how they

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might actually need to be adjusted or
communicated to somebody else to be effective.

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Really appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely, Now writing this book and working in

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the field for twenty three years as
you have, Cash, I know that,

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and you and I've talked about some
of this over time. But if

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there's a few things that you think
are important to queue up about the premise

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that premises that to assume about leadership, so that we have an understanding of

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kind of how you approached the space
and how you situated, that would probably

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be a good thing to talk about
now before we actually get into the types

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after the break. Sure I would
be happy too in to do that.

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At least I'd kind of maybe like
to do an exercise that I do in

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the classroom when I'm on day one
of a introduction to leadership kind of class.

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I ask participants to list give me
four or five traits characteristics of a

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leader you would willingly follow, and
I give them some time to reflect and

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come up with their list of how
would they describe that you know, their

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ideal leader? And then I ask
for you know, people to nominate these

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various traits and characteristics. And here's
what happens. Not one trait will be

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common to have the people in the
room on their list. And what that

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tells me and what the point I
try to get across to leaders is leadership

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is incredibly subjective. We think our
view is the only view, or you

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know, the best view of the
world, or the only way to see

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leadership, when in fact people have
multiple ways of looking at leadership, so

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it is diverse. It is subjective, and therefore these one size at all

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prescriptions only fit the one person who
wrote that book or who that It really

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means you've got to open up your
mind to different perspectives, I think is

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one of my big premises. And
if you're not aware of that, that

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self awareness to me is absolutely key. That is fantastic, and well,

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let's go ahead and stop there for
a quick break. But let me acknowledge

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what you just did their Cash,
just by helping us go through that exercise

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that you do with with participants sessions
incredibly useful for us to all to start

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to distinguish, as you say,
Chust, how subjective leadership is and how

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we each come at it and want
something different from it. So I really

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appreciate that you actually multiply that times
the number of followers or to reports you

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have, then you have the idea
of how many different views of leadership you

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have to lead through. Right,
and on that note, hold your hold

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your thought there, Cash, time
for our first break already, I'm your

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host, Jolie Cortez. We went
on the air with Cash Keihi, who

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has been working with leaders around the
globe to get better at leadership over the

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last twenty three years. He's the
author of the newly released book called eight

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Leader Types in the White House,
Discover and Leverage our Oval Office leadership Style.

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He joins today from Dallas, Texas. We've been talking a bit about

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his perspective on lead leadership and some
of the key premises that he uses to

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be able to distinguish what he talks
about along with what it really takes to

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be to be a leader in today's
LUCA environment. After this next break,

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we're going to get into those eight
leader types. Staying with us who We'll

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be right back. Friend us on
Facebook to keep up with what's empowering the

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world. Voice America Empowerments Alice Cortez
is a speaker and engagement and development catalyst.

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She designs and delivers professional development,
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invite a lease to speak to your
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Elise Cortez dot com. She would
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To reach our program today, please
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back to working on purpose. Thanks for

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00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.240
staying with us, and welcome back
to working on purpose if you're just showing

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00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.319
us. My guest is Cash Keihi, who has been working with leaders around

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the globe to get better at leadership. For the last twenty three years.

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He facilitated leadership workshops in twenty one
countries and on six continents for Fortune three

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hundred companies. He's the author of
the newly released book called eight Leader Types

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in the White House, Discover and
Large your Oval office leadership Style. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortez. So
for this next piece, here Cash,

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what I'd love to do for the
listeners I've as I've shared this show with

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various people on social media and to
my email network. What I said is

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come, come listen to find out
where we're going to talk about these eight

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leader types that Cash is found and
men get an inkling as to which ones

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you might be employing. So let's
get into it. So first, how

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did you how did you actually arrive
at eight leader types? You've done research.

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I can you say a little bit
about how who actually got these eightlan

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types? Sure I built into I
was first introduced to type through Myers Briggs

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and I was qualified certified to administer
the Myers Briggs Type indicator almost twenty years

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ago. But I deepened into Carl
jung and his eight psychological type. So

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this is a reimagining of the eight
types in leadership. What would this type

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how? And at the same time, I'm very interested in politics and the

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son of a Louisiana politician, and
I was fascinated with a book that I

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picked up about twelve years ago called
Personality, Character and Leadership in the White

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House Psychologist assess the Presidents, and
I thought this was fascinating and I immediately

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wanted to translate that into Myers Briggs
types and Jungian types. And it was

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done in the Big five, the
five factor model, if anyone is familiar

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with that. So I had to
translate that into Myers Briggs types, and

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lo and behold when I found was
in the top ten US presidents of all

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time were eight different personality types or
leader types as I call them. And

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that was significant for me in itself
because I had been asked one time,

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because personality typed as part of the
leadership programs that I teach, what's the

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best type for a leader to be. And I stumbled on the question because

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I wanted to say, no matter
what your type, you can be a

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great leader, but I didn't have
the data to back it up. Well

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with this book and with the further
research that I've done, I can now

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answer that question and say, no
matter what your personality type, there's a

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great leader that you can learn from. There is someone like you who has

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led significantly. And so the book
is simply you know one chapter on each

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one of these leaders, how their
leader type emerged, and what it looks

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like. So if you want me
to, I can go through them.

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Your listeners can pick out which you
know sounds like them? Would you know

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the ones they resonate with? And
again, let me say that you are

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not just one of these. One
of them will likely be dominant in your

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personality, but if you evolve and
grow over your lifetime, you're going to

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incorporate all eight of these into who
you are, into your authenticity results.

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Does that sound good? It sounds
great. I definitely want to make sure

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we cover all eight types because,
as I mentioned, as I was sharing

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this episode with listeners, I told
them they were going to get a snippet

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of each one of the So please
can they go for it? Okay?

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So the first one is what I
call the prudent leader type. This is

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someone who is very stabilizing, conscientious. Think of them as the guardian of

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the group. They value duty and
responsibility, tradition. They're very much They're

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very calm, dependable, often humble, usually trustworthy. They put a lot

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of emphasis on leading by example.
They base a lot of this on their

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proven experience. So this leader type, the prudent leader type, values information,

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you know, detailed information, and
they specialize in things. They become

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repositories of tremendous knowledge. And the
prudent leader type this would be introverted sensing.

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If you're familiar with the in types
or I S t J or I

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S FJ, if you're familiar with
Myers Briggs types, that would be the

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prudent leader type. And that's George
Washington. Believe it or not, I

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if George Washington would have had Excel
spreadsheets, he would have run Mount Vernon

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in the Revolutionary War with Excel.
He just he loved data in detailed documentation

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and that kind of you know,
highlights. A key feature of this leader

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type. Shall I go on wonderful
Yeah, please, So that's prudent,

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just to gain for our listeners that
that type is prudent. Prudent leaders tie.

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The next one is proactive, and
this leader is very pragmatic. They're

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energizing, facilitating something happening right now. I mean, they're very enterprising,

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bold. They want to quick win. So they value action, urgency,

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efficiency, spontaneity, variety. They
love variety, and they never want to

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be bored and they're always going to
want to have things going on that is

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proactive. They have a bias for
action. And the quote from Andrew Jackson

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I think sums it up really well. He is the proactive leader type that

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I feature. When the time for
action arrives, stop thinking and go in.

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And so that's the proactive leader type. The next would be then,

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okay, by the way, let
me give the Myers Briggs that's extroverted sensing,

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which would be an ESTP or an
EESFP for those who are familiar with

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00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:56.400
the Myers Briggs types. The next
would be innovating leader TIPE. And the

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innovating leader type is the pioneer uh, the one who is the transformative catalyst

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00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.799
who latches on to the next big
idea, so they're you know, they

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move into the new. In this
case it was Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And

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listen to this litany of news from
presidents that I found. Shared this with

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FDR. You know, FDR,
it was the new Deal. John Kennedy

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was about the new frontier. Reagan
led in a new direction, and Clinton

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was a new Democrats. You see
how they want to be about whatever is

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new and his leading edge. They're
very optimistic. They're a change agent.

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So that is the innovating leader type. Next up is the vision great Okay,

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so the next up is the visionary
leader type. This would be I

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00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:06.039
hate to keep going back. Innovating
would have been extroverted intuition, which is

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e NTP or e NFP. The
visionary leader type would be introverted intuition and

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it would be ion TJ or Ian
FJ. And these are really hard to

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read leaders. In case in point, it's Thomas Jefferson, a very enigmatic,

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paradoxical, but incredibly inventive. Their
intuition is very strong, but it's

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a deep, complex intuition. They're
very intentional. They lead with a lot

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of foresight, so that visionary aspect
is their ability to see into the future.

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One of my favorite quotes is from
Steven Spielberg. He said, I

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dream for a living. Thomas Jefferson
said, I prefer the dreams of the

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future to the history of the past. So that's the leader type, the

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inclusive leader type. Let's mood on
is introverted feeling. This would be an

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IRONFP or an i SFP. In
terms of Myers Briggs, this is your

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classic servant leader, very authentic,
very compassionate. It's a high emphasis on

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fairness, values, diversity, and
respect for individuals. They're big on internal

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harmony. They're often very often self
deprecating, self sacrificing, very steady in

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a crisis. In Abraham Lincoln is
the for me, the epitome of inclusive

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leader type. And I make the
point in the book that he was inclusive

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on three levels. One, he
was inclusive about who it meant to be

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human, an American, and in
including slaves in the American dreams, so

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he's inclusive in that way. He
was also inclusive that the South couldn't just

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opt out of the Union. He
was going to include them even if they

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wished to be excluded. And Finally, as Doris Kern's Goodwin pointed out in

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00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:40.799
her book Team of Rivals, he
was incredibly inclusive with his leadership team,

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and so that's why I use him
as the example of the inclusive leader type.

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Next up is persuasive. So the
persuasive leader type is extroverted feeling.

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That's Young's type. This would be
ees f J or e n f J.

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Very affirming, very cooperative, a
very tactful influencer. They put a

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00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:15.319
lot of emphasis on trust, on
trusting relationships. They're very passionate, committed,

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00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:22.119
they seek loyalty, and they want
loyalty, so they're harmonizing, nurturing,

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probably your natural coaches mentors, lots
of warmth and empathy, and that

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00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:37.559
would be Harry Truman and the quote. Interestingly, Harry Truman wrote a book

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00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:43.000
on leadership. He defined leadership and
he said to the persuasive leader type.

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00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.079
A leader is someone who has the
ability to get other people to do what

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00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:54.039
they don't want to do and like
it. So that's the persuasive leader type.

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00:32:55.319 --> 00:33:01.680
Then went down to the take charge
leader type, and this would be

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00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:12.000
the driver, the very delegating,
results oriented mover shaker. They are assertive,

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00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:19.640
they lead with tremendous conviction from their
principles. They're to make it happen

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00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:24.079
leader, and not just do it
my way because I say so. They

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00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:30.720
have tremendous structure. They set out
the plans, the goals, they lay

390
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:36.920
out the challenge, and they take
on challenges. They move into them,

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00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:42.759
and they're very candid and they're very
clarifying of what needs to happen and holding

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00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:47.359
people accountable. And that would be
Theodore Roosevelt. And one of my favorite

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00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:52.240
quotes of his is the best executive
has the sense to pick good people and

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00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:59.039
self restraint enough to keep from meddling
with them while they do it. So

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00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:05.519
that's at Roosevelt to take charge.
Leader type that would be ES TJ and

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00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:13.239
Ian TJ extroverted thinking. And finally
there's the independent leader type. And the

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00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:20.000
independent leader type is introverted thinking,
which would be I STP or i NTP.

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00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:27.000
From a Myers Briggs perspective, these
are very analytical, self reliant thought

399
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:31.840
leaders and goal achievers. If I
might add, they're very much about clarity.

400
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:37.920
They want things to be logical.
They look at issues from multiple perspectives,

401
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:45.599
but they value autonomy. They're very
skeptical they're you know, can be

402
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:52.800
iconoclastic, but they want accuracy.
They're very good with clarifying, and they're

403
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:59.639
good with critique, even critique in
themselves. They tend to be very perfectionist.

404
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:07.400
And this would be John Adams in
a very strong thinking time. What

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00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:12.480
questions do you have? I hope
I didn't go through too fast or let

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00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.920
me know that was That was splendid
cash and we have just a comments before

407
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.480
going on to our next break.
I thought that was incredibly articulate. I

408
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.599
really appreciated how you presence each of
the eight before you even said de Meyer's

409
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:28.679
brick types. I know what my
two are? You want to try to

410
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:30.960
guess or do you want you want
me just to tell you? I would

411
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:35.920
love to hear your thought. I
want to know. I it was really

412
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:39.239
easy when you were going through proactive
and take charge. I kind of figured

413
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:46.280
that might be had to work with
me, that you would really resemble quite

414
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:51.480
a bit. It would read the
chapter on Andrew Jackson, because he had

415
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:57.599
a lot of both of those.
He was a real survivor and anyway very

416
00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:01.800
interesting history. There was a little
little bit of the inclusive that I thought

417
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:07.000
I could identify with as well.
I think that's there's certainly can recognize aspects

418
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.000
when I was the chairman of the
board of the Way MCA that I certainly

419
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:14.039
could say was present for that,
as well as when I was president of

420
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:17.119
the Lakewood Service League. I think
that I could recognize some of that there

421
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:22.480
too well. And that's where you
and I would have things in common and

422
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:28.400
why I believe I click sometimes with
people. Is proactive and inclusive are my

423
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:34.760
two leader types, which serves me
well as a facilitator. You know,

424
00:36:35.559 --> 00:36:38.960
I want to make sure everyone in
the room feels included. And I'm very

425
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:43.559
pragmatic about what we have to achieve, you know, in the time,

426
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:47.039
but I'm open, I'm flexible.
So another thought that I had, and

427
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:52.199
you said something about over the life, over our lifetimes, we might develop

428
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:57.519
I forget exactly how you said that
might develop into all eight types. Another

429
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:01.320
thought that I had was can or
leaders change their type? And if so,

430
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:07.719
under what conditions how well? And
I think you know a significant event

431
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:14.119
can shape a leader. You know, there's this idea that leaders need to

432
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:19.800
be twice born, that they need
to go through a significant struggle and come

433
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:23.199
out of that on the other end
to be fully who they need to be,

434
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:29.440
and I take a look at that. In each chapter about the president's

435
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:32.960
I look at what was happening to
them at midlife and what was the transition

436
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:37.159
for them. For example, with
FDR, that's the age at which he

437
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:44.719
came down with polio and so coming
through that struggle and coming out on it,

438
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:49.719
you know, the other side,
becoming president. That to me shows

439
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:55.679
his tremendous tenacity and development as a
leader. I don't believe that leaders become

440
00:37:55.719 --> 00:38:01.800
a different type, but you become
a more complete leader, a more complete

441
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:08.079
person. And the goal isn't,
you know, perfection, It is completion

442
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:14.280
that I so there's more nuance.
But there's actually a sequence that I point

443
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:20.480
to in the book that can give
leaders a clue as to what stage or

444
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:23.400
which leader type they're at, depending
on, you know, their stage of

445
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:30.400
live. I cannot wait to read
the book. Cash I'm just really impressed

446
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:32.000
with us, and join the conversation. And here we are already at the

447
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:36.519
next break. I'm a last Cortez
as your host, who've been on the

448
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:38.960
air with cash keyheat who has been
working with leaders around the globe to get

449
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:43.519
better at leaders ship for the last
twenty three years. He is the author

450
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:45.639
of the newly released book called eight
Leader Types in the White House, Discover

451
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:51.360
and leverage your Oval office leadership style. He joins today from Dallas, Texas.

452
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.880
We've been talking about his eight year
typeset he's discovered and detailed in his

453
00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:59.000
book. After the break, we're
going to get more into the application,

454
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:14.360
into the leadership space. Staying with
us will be right back. We're on

455
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:17.199
Facebook along with some of the greatest
minds of the world, and Dan includes

456
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:22.960
you. Visit us out Facebook at
Voice America Empowerment, Elise Cortez is a

457
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:29.880
speaker and engagement and development catalyst.
She designs and delivers professional development, leadership

458
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:34.599
and engagement workshops and can bring her
expertise to your organization. She will help

459
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:39.639
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that
will increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

460
00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:44.519
To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please

461
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:50.159
visit her at www dot Elise Cortez
dot com. She would welcome the opportunity

462
00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:54.800
to help get your employees working on
purpose. We're making it easier to listen

463
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:59.960
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464
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465
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466
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467
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468
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America Mold Last powered by air Cast The

469
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Girl will start facy. Get inspired, encouraged and connected on our Lively award

470
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Be the star you are with host and

471
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472
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.840
Empowerment Channel. Tune into the Power
Party for positive, uplifting, life changing

473
00:40:52.840 --> 00:41:13.880
talk radio. Visit Star Style Radio
dot com. It's your world, motivates,

474
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:29.039
change, succeed. Voice America Empowerment
dot com. This is working on

475
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:32.480
purpose with Elise Cortez. To reach
our program today, please call in to

476
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:37.719
one triple eight three four six nine
one four one Again that's one triple eight

477
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:42.840
three four six nine one four one. You may also send an email to

478
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:49.480
Elise A. L I s E
at Elise Cortez dot com now back to

479
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:57.280
working on purpose. Thanks for staning
with us, and welcome back to working

480
00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:00.920
on purpose if you're just tuning in. My guest is Kihi, who has

481
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:02.599
been working with leaders around the globe
to get better at leadership for the last

482
00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:07.760
twenty three years. He's facilitated leadership
with workshops in twenty one countries on six

483
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:12.639
continents for Fortune three hundred companies.
Very impressive. He's the author of the

484
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:15.440
only release book called eight Leader Types
in the White House, Discover and Leverage

485
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:21.400
your Oval office leadership style. I'm
your host at least courtesz so cash.

486
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:24.199
Before the break, you were kind
enough to delineate the eight leader Types.

487
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:30.239
That was incredibly useful for me and
for our listeners. What I want to

488
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:32.960
do next year is really get more
into the application of this stuff. How

489
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:39.719
do we actually use this stuff to
become more effective to change So one of

490
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.760
the things that you and I were
talking about on the break is just that

491
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.599
you know the sheer privilege it is
to get to be to work in the

492
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:50.519
space that we do to developing leaders, to be on the journey with them.

493
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:54.599
I mean that that precious intimate space
where somebody's growing and being vulnerable and

494
00:42:55.199 --> 00:43:00.679
putting themselves out there and you know, leaping into the wild, blue yondera

495
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:04.639
whatever's next. And I just really
cherished that, and I know you too,

496
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:07.079
so I thought it would be interesting
if maybe you could share a couple

497
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:13.039
examples of leaders that you've known or
even worked with who have may be made

498
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:17.840
a sizeable transformation in their leadership.
You know. I would start with my

499
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:25.800
father, who I think began life
as an extroverted, very proactive, active,

500
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:32.880
kind of take charge leader, and
as his life evolved and he his

501
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:39.239
work and became much more involved at
a political level, he transferred into a

502
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:45.320
thought leader that very much an independent
And I believe there's an arc of development

503
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:50.880
that every leader goes through that if
you start off your life as an extrovert,

504
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:53.920
you're not going to become an introvert
later on, but you will certainly

505
00:43:53.960 --> 00:44:00.639
incorporate more of that introverted tendency and
vice versa. If you start off your

506
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:07.400
life introverted, you will likely end
up incorporating a lot of extraversion later on

507
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:12.519
in life. So I do believe
in this developmental process. I think it's

508
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:17.320
accumulative sequence events, and basically what's
happening is the first half of life is

509
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:22.000
figuring out I think Young said,
you know, the first forty years is

510
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:25.960
just research. It's figuring out who
am I? And the ego. This

511
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:30.400
is when the ego gets established,
and it's at midlife. And whenever that

512
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:34.519
happens, you know, thirty five, thirty eight, forties, something like

513
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:42.960
that, there are these unconscious you
know, proddings that are percolating up within

514
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.400
you that are saying, is this
all there is to life? Do I

515
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:51.519
need to be more? And for
a leader that's re examining what has been

516
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:58.360
my leader types and what could they
be going forward, and that there's more

517
00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:06.079
to your story and how do I
pursue that? Now? The interesting I

518
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:12.639
saw this in some of these presidents
very incredibly. Harry Truman was one.

519
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:19.559
I could just see the stages of
his development. But even when Harry Truman

520
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:24.719
got to the decision about the atomic
bomb, he was missing John Adams and

521
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:30.679
Thomas Jefferson. And that lease is, you know, to me, is

522
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:36.760
the application that I would hope for
leaders. It's not just a matter of

523
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:39.519
knowing this is my dominant leader type, or these are my two or three

524
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:45.599
supporting leader types. It's which one
is my achilles heel, which one or

525
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:55.960
two. And for Harry Truman's type, he was missing that critical you know,

526
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:02.440
explanation and logic around on the decision
in which cities to bomb, and

527
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:08.199
he was missing out on Thomas Jefferson's
long range vision. What are the strategic

528
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:14.679
consequences because Harry Truman was a very
practical, down to earth, prudent,

529
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:20.679
persuasive kind of leader. Does that
make sense that just how these come into

530
00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:25.320
play in real life decision? It
does, And it's great, cash This

531
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:29.239
is exactly what I was hoping for
to share with our listeners. So yes,

532
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:37.880
please, so I see that in
organizations if you realize these are my

533
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:44.519
strengths, these are the leader types
that I call on. It's great if

534
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:49.440
the situation you're in demands that.
But let's say you're in a situation that's

535
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:54.920
very different from what your leader type
is comfortable with. You either need to

536
00:46:55.400 --> 00:47:00.239
pull that up from within you or
make sure you've got someone on your team

537
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:07.880
that is providing that voice. And
in the book, I take readers through

538
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:17.880
a strategic planning process using all eight
of the leader types and what their perspective

539
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:24.000
is. If I could let me
just share very quickly run through in a

540
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:29.280
strategic plan. This is what each
one is going to provide. The prudent

541
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:35.800
leader knows how we got where we
are and what our strengths and weaknesses are,

542
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.559
and is going to caution us against
risks. The proactive leader has a

543
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:46.880
grasp of the immediate situation and can
identify what's the most pressing threats and the

544
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:54.199
opportunities. The innovating leader sees various
scenarios of how the world could evolve.

545
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:59.840
They can connect the dots. They
see what needs to change in the organization.

546
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:05.000
The visionary leader sees more the end
game. How is this going to

547
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:09.760
play out? What's our true vision
of how we want the world to look

548
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:16.760
like. The inclusive leader make sure
that we all protect the values that matter

549
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:23.800
most in the organization. The persuasive
leader make sure the culture is aligned around

550
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:30.280
the strategy, and the take charge
leader is setting stretch goals, implementing the

551
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:37.079
strategy, seeing how it needs to
be implemented, and making sure everyone takes

552
00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:42.920
ownership. Finally, the independent leader
is going to make sure we have a

553
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:49.239
balanced scorecard to check how we've done. But can you see where if you're

554
00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:54.199
missing one of those leader types on
your management team, you won't see the

555
00:48:54.199 --> 00:49:01.400
need for that perspective or that step
in the strategic planning process. I do

556
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:07.239
see that, and I absolutely understand
that the beauty of having a diverse team.

557
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.960
And I really appreciate what you just
said to about if you don't have

558
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:15.159
that particular type, you won't actually
be able to see that there's a missing

559
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:19.840
from that from that vantage point,
we just will it will not be visible

560
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:22.280
to you. And I think that's
incredibly important to point out to our listeners

561
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:28.639
and anyone want to set assembling a
team. Yes, And that's what I

562
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:32.760
try to highlight for leaders is when
I'm coaching them, what are you missing?

563
00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:38.760
What you know? What are your
unknown unknowns? And a lot of

564
00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:44.360
leadership literature this day these days is
saying leaders need to pay more attention to

565
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:51.960
their unconscious and their development, you
know, into and out of that unconscious.

566
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:57.920
So I would just say this is
really important for leaders to understand not

567
00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:05.480
only their their strengths, but their
gaps and to explore that and have those

568
00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:07.320
voices around them. I hate to
say that, you know, it takes

569
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:14.960
a village if you want to get
a village of diverse leader types to get

570
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:23.000
the best overall decision m one of
the things that I get that people ask

571
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.880
me. I'd love for you to
weigh in on this from your perspective.

572
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:30.639
I think I know what it is, but let's just see. Do you

573
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:35.679
are you of the persuasion that anyone
can be a leader? You know?

574
00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:43.119
I struggle with that question, you
know, I I know we need leaders

575
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:47.719
at all levels. I will say
though, that the one thing that came

576
00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:53.800
through loud and clear about all eight
of these presidents. You know, yes,

577
00:50:53.840 --> 00:51:00.840
they were very diverse, but they
were all ambitious. They wanted to

578
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:07.639
achieve something, they wanted to make
their mark, They wanted to influence an

579
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:10.559
outcome. Do you see what I
mean? So that when we say can

580
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:16.199
anyone be a leader? I would
say yes, if they have that drive,

581
00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:25.599
that desire to uh to impact their
world, to influence an outcome.

582
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:31.079
Does that how does that ring with
what you think? Yeah? I really

583
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:36.760
appreciate the way you're articulated that cash. I think that, Yeah, I

584
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:40.719
mean want to influence an outcome?
Yes, Now what I also think is

585
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:44.239
interesting. And then I had to
follow up question about you know, or

586
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:49.840
should people want to be a leader. I sometimes wonder about maybe some of

587
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:52.639
the folks who if that's if they're
not coming in it is to influence an

588
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:57.480
outcome, but rather maybe there's other
other drivers there. I'm not you know,

589
00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:00.519
there's various ways you could look at
those drivers. Maybe we're healthy and

590
00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:05.719
maybe so we're not healthy. I
like the way that you pointed the direction,

591
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:08.840
want to influence an outcome? What
if well, I guess it,

592
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:12.360
never mind, I was going to
say, what if that outcome is more

593
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:17.039
personally oriented than organizationally oriented? Doesn't
matter? Yeah, But I think I

594
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:25.000
think what you're getting at there is
is their need for power really directed at

595
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:31.039
themselves and I want power for myself, or is it directed at the general

596
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:36.719
for the general good of everyone.
And that's where I, you know,

597
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:42.159
come down trying to help people understand
what is it that they really want?

598
00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:46.920
Yeah, I ask one of these
in my class at the very beginning.

599
00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:52.440
Why you want to be a leader
is an important question that you need to

600
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:59.079
answer. And if you're wanting it
for power, or for status or for

601
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:04.800
you know, I've got some serious
concerns. You know, if you are

602
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:10.119
wanting to achieve something greater than you
could achieve by yourself, great and if

603
00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:16.079
you at Jack Welch, there's a
great video on he was being interviewed by

604
00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:20.679
the head of the Stanford Business School
and you can find this on YouTube.

605
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.760
He talks about this becoming a leader, and he says, before you become

606
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:34.119
a leader, it's all about you
and your job and what you are doing.

607
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:38.800
But the day you become a leader, it's about them. And you

608
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:46.239
get a kick out of growing people
and seeing them achieve something that was impossible

609
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:52.159
or you thought not likely. So
you see what I mean. The intent

610
00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:57.920
and the interest I think has to
be focused outward, not on me and

611
00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:01.400
what can I get out of this? Does that resonate with you? Yes,

612
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:07.800
yes, it absolutely doesn't it you
You were able to put language around

613
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:10.519
what I was trying to express and
present them, so that was wonderful.

614
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:15.719
We are almost out of time,
Cash, and I like to give my

615
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:19.719
guest the last word, if you
will, So, knowing that the show

616
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.800
is all that helping the listeners more
meaningfully and productively connect with their work,

617
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.320
what would you like to leave our
listeners with today and maybe say a minute

618
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:31.599
or less? Sure, thank you
again, at least for making this opportunity

619
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:37.599
possible. I would say, you
know, leadership isn't difficult, but it's

620
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.760
hard, harder than just doing your
job. It requires you to step out

621
00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:45.920
of your comfort zone. But I
believe there's a lot of rewards that can

622
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:50.840
come with that. It's where a
lot of learning can happen. That I

623
00:54:50.840 --> 00:54:53.000
would say, if you have a
cause, you believe in an idea that

624
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:58.519
won't wait, or you you want
to accomplish something and you realize you can't

625
00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:04.559
do it alone, that's the feed
of leadership. And once you realize that

626
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:07.400
and step up to the plate,
I would say, just be that authentic

627
00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:13.840
leader version of yourself. Trust the
leader in you, and I think others

628
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:19.440
will put their trust in your leadership. Gorgeous way to finish. Cash,

629
00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:22.199
Thank you so much and I'm delighted
to have you on my show. Thank

630
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:24.440
you for joining me and sharing your
wisdom in your heart with our listeners.

631
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:29.679
Absolutely happy to do so. If
you want to learn more about Cash Kahi

632
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:32.880
and his work developing leaders or his
newly really spook, visit his website.

633
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:39.599
It's www dot leadertype dot com again
leader type dot com. Next week,

634
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:44.599
we'll be on the air with Mario
McCracken of Move Medical and he's also a

635
00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:47.000
contributing writer to INC. We'll be
talking more about leadership and just really what

636
00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:51.159
it takes to build really effective teams. So see it in. Remember that

637
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:53.280
work is at least one third of
our lives, so let's work on purpose.

638
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.719
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune in too.

639
00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:08.079
Working on Purpose featuring your host Alice
Cortez every Wednesday at six pm Eastern

640
00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:13.719
Time three pm Pacific Time on the
Voice America Empowerment Channel. This week,

641
00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:15.000
find your life's purpose at work