Digital Transformation - Putting People First

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five, it's working

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on Purpose. Now. Here is
your host, Elise Cortes. I'm your

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host, Elise Cropez, joined from
New York City this week where I'm doing

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some consulting. Great opportunities for me
here. This program is all about helping

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people more meaningfully and productively connect with
their work and equipment organizations to do the

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same for their employees. I bring
on guests to a particular perspective or experience

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that I think expansive conversation about meaningful
and productive work, and I often draw

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on my own meaning work research I
mean doing in the last fifteen years,

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as well as my own consulting experience. We get you missed of a live

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show, you can always catch up
a record of podcast. We were on

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the air with Lexo Rowlands, who
is a transition expert and founder of Spears

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of influence. We talked about how
to navigate key life transitions, whether it's

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something personally going through a divorce or
some of the professional of getting fired even

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promoted to your dream job, that
can both be very stressful. It's all

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about transition and the way we fel
about the transitions that makes all the difference

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with us this week is a dear
life not quite lifelong, but longtime friend

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of mine, Mike Roschell. He
is the founder and chief executive officer at

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Microshell and Associates, which is our
management and leadership development consultancy. We'll be

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talking about the digital transformation in the
workplace and how dialogue has something somehow sword

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out of everyday life and what we
can do to restore its place. He

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jined today from Dallas, Texas.
Michael, Welcome to Working on Purpose.

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How are you today? I am
great. Oh my gosh, it's so

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great to be on the air with
you. After all this time. We

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talked about this tapago about how come
you haven't been on the air with me

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yet, and now it's time,
let's do this. They go looking forward

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to me too, and I want
to start if we can just crack right

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into the content. So we bring
our listeners in who came for the particular

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piece of digital transformation. I want
to start there in my home. You

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and I share an interest in that, right. I'm interested because I really

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really care about how it is really
transforming the way people are connected their work

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and do their work. Why are
you interested in digital transformation? Well,

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I'm primarily interested in it because it
is the thing that's going to shape our

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work for the next at least a
decade, if not forever. Because of

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this digitization of the entire world,
people are being left behind, some don't

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know exactly how to deal with it, and those in corporations, many of

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whom do work that is automatable,
are in a bit of trepidation as to

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what their future might look like.
So what I hope is that I can

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bring some hope to those people that
are that find themselves in that situation and

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then just show that chage is constant
and that change is the way that we

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as a species evolve, and that
we become better, and that what got

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you here isn't going to get you
there. I absolutely completely subscribe to at

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Saint Philosphia, as you probably well
know. One piece that I would add

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to that as well. Is that
for me? Since I care about how

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people meaningfully product and interactly connect with
their work, I'm interested in how do

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people find ways to more connect with
their work? And so my thinking is

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is if we can help shed some
awareness to what are the opportunities for people

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in relation to working technology and automation, how might that actually bring up their

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contribution to what they're doing in their
work. And what I know for my

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research, and you have talked about
this before, is that generally speaking,

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a higher level you go up in
like mans those hierarchy in relation to meaning

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connections, the more satisfying work is
anyway, So I'm on quest to help

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people more meaningfully and highly connect with
their work too. Yeah. So in

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an earlier iteration of my company,
I called myself the helper of Joy.

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So I think that shows you that
I'm pretty much in alignment with what you're

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talking about. It's that each individual
has to find that path to get forward

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in their own way, right.
It is an individual path, but there

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are guide posts along the way to
getting that better meaning better connection to what

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it is but you're doing and the
benefit of the feelings of accomplishment when you're

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able to do it for yourself and
help others along that way. And we

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both know we worked in a lot
of change manks. We both know that

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that is incredibly uncomfortable for a lot
of people to be faced with that,

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and so right helping them or through
that, helping organizations work through that is

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I think there's a real contribution to
make there. And to that end,

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Michael, if you could, I
know you speak from some pretty interesting stats

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I've seen. You've talked a bit
about something about twenty five million to twitter

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three five million people will change roles
by twenty thirty. Wow, I mean

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that's a lot of shifts. Can
you say more about that? Yeah,

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yeah, So that stat came and
I've heard it in numerous places now,

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but that came from a Future of
Work survey or summary that mckimsey did,

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And the summary of the summary,
to your point, is that seventy five

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million to three hundred and seventy five
million people are going to change roles by

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twenty thirty and then about twenty three
percent, and this is the part that

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brings people to trepidation, twenty three
percent of us work hours are automation ready.

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That's across the board, across all
industries. Now, in some industries

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they're more heavily impacted than others.
Right where there's repetition where you can roematize

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the process through automation, those roles
are impacted more quickly. But as we

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get into the second and third generation
of robotization, then you can get into

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the situation where actual thinking and decision
making is being done by robotic process.

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So, like I said, it's
going to impact everybody. So the priorities

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as you look forward in this new
world that is so changing and it's changing

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so fast, is that there are
some priorities that we as leaders need to

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think about. We need to make
sure that we are growing the economy because

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by growing the economy, we provide
more opportunities for those higher level jobs that

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you and I seek and many of
your listeners do. That we will have

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to do skills upgrade every three years, right, So basically the thing that

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you're doing today is not the thing
that you're going to be doing three years

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for now, and that along that
path you're going to have to find that

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direction that this is a fluid labor
market. Accenture calls it a fluid labor

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market. It's just that your career, you move from role to role in

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most like a consultant's life. So
for those of us who have been in

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consulting for many years, even though
the dry spells between projects are still difficult,

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it's a little more easy for somebody
that does work on a project basis

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to do this new way of working. But more and more people are going

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to find themselves in that situation where
their skill set is needed for a particular

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season. That season may be for
a month, it may be for six

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months or whatever. And what all
of this means is that we have to

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provide as leaders. And this is
where I find myself a bit of a

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revolutionary in the working world. Right, we I think are responsible for the

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people that we lead. Then we
have to help them to identify what that

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roadmap looks like for themselves and then
help them with transition support. So and

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this is in the best interest of
the company too. It's the best interest

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the of an investor as well,
because you're actually taking advantage or taking responsibility

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for and growing an asset, right, people being one of the assets their

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company has and has been under developed
for years. Yes, I don't remember

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what's stats. You and I talked
about this before, Michael, but that

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some companies spend like less than one
percent or they're over a budgeon of people

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development, which obviously has to change
drastically for this to really take off.

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I'm very interested in being part of
the solution of being able to help organizations

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bring up their talent force to be
able to meet those more needs around digital

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transformation and automation, artificial intelligence,
all those things that just scare people to

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death. Very much interested in that
well. So so to the end,

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Michael, do you do you have
any any any thoughts or anything you can

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share regard to what you're seeing organizations
do that maybe is a step in the

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right direction. Yeah, so leading
edge organizations are actually addressing this strategically rather

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than waiting for the ball to drop
right And what that means is that And

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I'm going to give you an example
of some of the information that I sent

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you that I received from CEB a
perspective on change. And I'm going to

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use the IT industry because that's the
one that I've been working in for the

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last twenty five years, but the
one that I know the best and I

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can actually walk through kind of the
process of what just looks like from an

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individual in that role. So let's
say that from a if you looked at

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a regular graph, on the left
end side, you have diminishing importance to

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heightened importance, you know, on
a on a vertical axis, and on

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the bottom you have future and importance
within the organization. And it starts out

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at loane it goes to high.
So it's similar to the chart that you

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use for your work. There is
a point where most of the roles that

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are existing today are in the diminishing
importance arena and they're being de invested.

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From a company perspective, So I'll
give you an example. In a world

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where we don't have data centers sitting
in a company anymore, the infrastructure director,

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the person that actually directs the purchase, the placement, the backup,

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and all of the things that happens
within the infrastructure goes away because Microsoft and

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Google and Amazon and bunches of other
people are providing infrastructure that is more sound,

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more secure, and less expensive than
you can do by yourself. So

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that infrastructure manager has thirty years of
experience. And it's not just the managing

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of the stuff, it's the managing
of the culture of the company, where

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the different functions happen around the globe
and all of that stuff. So as

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somebody, if somebody is in that
situation, they have two choices. At

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least, I'm going to make it
a two choice situation. Obviously they're in

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multiple, bit I'll just make it
too for simplicity's sake. They can decide

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that they're going to cut their salary
on an annualized basis and go to work

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for an outsourcer. Or they can
start moving up in value to the company

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so that they move above that line
where there's no importance to the company or

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to the organization. So I'll give
you a couple of examples there. They

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could move into the information architect role. They could move into an IT strategist

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role. They could move into a
chief architect role. They could move into

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account management role of the outsourcer that's
actually providing the infrastructure service. The thing

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is that between an applic infrastructure manager
or director and those roles there is a

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gap, right because they have been
trained traditionally in engineering and they know how

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to deal with stuff. Now they're
going to be dealing with contracts and they're

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going to be dealing with a little
more politics and they're going to be dealing

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with things that they've never dealt with
before. So wouldn't it be cool if

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we had a way to assess where
they are today and said they're sitting here

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and they have all these great skills, and then to move them up into

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one of those other roles that are
higher value to the company, we need

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to add four to six capabilities,
so we have a two or three year

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transition period, maybe it's less than
that, right, so that then they

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can have access to training. And
this is, to your point, a

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lease that one percent or less than
one percent, depending on where the companies

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aren't Tech companies obviously spend more than
that because that's their business buying large In

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corporate America, they've not been spending
a lot, so that is going to

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have to increase, but it needs
to increase from both from a scale perspective.

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And I did some work with Pearson
Education just a few years ago,

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and when you're working working with the
people doing leadership development for the people that

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are actually creating the software in the
future, where the trend is going is

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so that it's completely individualized, right, So it's not just any infrastructure manager

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moving to any account manager role,
it's at least quartes with all of her

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wonderful skills and wonderful capabilities. I
would add to it, as I think

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you do it as well, what
their strengths are, what they're really good

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at, and what they're not really
good at. Right, So, if

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somebody is an extrovert and really likes
to deal with people and they have those

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infrastructure skills, that account management role
would probably be a good role for them.

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But it may not be a good
role if they're not that unless they

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want to grow in that way,
and that's their choice, right. So

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then you take all of that who
they are and what they are, and

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the actual skills and capabilities, and
then start moving them in a path that

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is strategic. And that's something that
I've not seen anybody do yet, but

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there are some people in the marketplace
that are making these things happen in a

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short period time. Well, I
know that's something both you and I are

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committed to ourselves professionally to helping organizations
do, and we're going to talk more

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about that. Let's take a quick
break. I'm your host, Tollie Cortes.

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We're on the area with Michael Roschau, who is the founder and chief

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executive officer at Mike Rochelle and Associates, and management and leadership development consultancy Joergity

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from Dallas, Texas. We've been
talking a bit about digital transformation in the

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effect it has on how we'll need
to transform our workforces into the future.

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Stay with us, We'll be right
back. Alice Cortes is a speaker and

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engagement and development catalyst. She designs
and delivers professional development, leadership and engagement

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workshops and can bring her expertise to
your organization helpingite meaningful development within your workforce

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that will increase employee engagement, performance
and retention. To learn more or to

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invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at www dot Elisecortes

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dot com. She would welcome the
opportunity to help get your employees working on

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purpose. This is working on Purpose
with Elease Cortes. To reach our program

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today, send an email to a
Lease Alise at Aleasecortes dot com. Now

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back to working on purpose. If
you're just joining us, My guest is

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Mike Rochelle, who is the founder
and chief executive officer at Mike roschell and

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Associates, Leadership Development, development consultancy. He is also the president of AIPPDFW,

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a nonprofit whose mission is to develop
ethical business technology leaders at all levels

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by encouraging and growing active thinkers to
impact the world to universal virtues in action.

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We've been talking about digital transformation and
it's impact in the workforce. I

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want to see a little bit more
about that as we continue on here.

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I'm your host at least Core Tests. So, Michael, we were talking

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before about what this really requires on
an individual basis for people to handle the

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change that's involved in digital transformation.
Can you say more about what's your experience

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is what you're doing to help organizations
in that manner? Sure? So,

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like you said, it is an
individual thing to make change happening one's own

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life. If you have a vision
like we talked about before, of growth

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where your organization is actually helping you
to put that together, that builds an

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engagement at a loyalty that few companies
are going to have. And now that

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we're in a nearly zero unemployment basis
economy, keeping the right employees is very

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important, right, So having something
that actually provides that kind of engagement and

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that kind of stuff is something that
really should matter as things go by.

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Now, let's think about it from
an organizational perspective, because organizations don't happen

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in a vacuum. A matter of
fact, the way that I think about

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it is that you have to mature
the capabilities of the entire organization as you

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begin a journey of innovation. So
let's say that they're going to do a

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project based on things technology or the
automation that we talked about, robotic process

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automation, whatever, the actual technology
that enables the change to happen. Let's

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think about behind the scenes, what
is going to happen to the culture of

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the organization. So the first thing
you need to make sure that you think

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about is the customer experience. You
don't want to do something that's going to

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negatively impact the customer experience just because
it's automated, right, So you have

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to take that into consideration. The
culture of the organization also needs to be

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taken in iteration. And some cultures
are caustic, some cultures are good,

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and so you can go from caustic
to good and then good to great.

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So it really depends on where you
are. But you need to assess what

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that looks like and then determine who
the stakeholders are in a particular change,

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what the impact to them is,
and input together individualized communication plan about what

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the value to that individual is,
because, as in my experience, if

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you don't tell somebody, and that
somebody can be the person that's in the

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data center, or the person that's
at the front office in a retail store,

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that could be an executive, that
could be an executive's assistant. All

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of those people have different perspectives and
they need to be communicated at the level

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that they are interacting with whatever the
process is that you're thinking about changing.

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So it's good to know those things
before you start changing things. I mean,

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once you identify candidate processes, then
you need to look at data driven

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insight. So that's where business intelligence
comes in, where you're actually considering what

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the value of a particular change might
be and then helping the organization actually embrace

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that change. And there are lots
of different paths to go about doing that.

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But a part of that change effectiveness
from my perspective, is what we

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talked about first, which is adding
capabilities to the leadership team. So you

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know, in a lot of situations, we have organizations that are being run

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in a way that is not a
very mature, you know, twenty first

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century management style, just to be
frank, right, So leadership has to

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sometimes change the way that they do
things and way that they measure things as

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well. So it's not just on
the individual contributor to make this change,

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but it's an entire organization because things
start at the top and then they filter

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down, right. And if that's
not if that is not a real change

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that happening from the executive level and
there's no energy behind it, and there's

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no passion behind it, and there's
no communication only both ways from those organizations,

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it's not going to happen. So
I think I like to think of

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it as crawl, walk, and
then run. So start out with small

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projects and then go to bigger ones, and then as the organization begins seeing

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the benefits to them individually, then
to the team, and then to the

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organization obviously driven by what the customer
experience is going to be, then you

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can accelerate and do more and more
of the automation and more and more of

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the innovation as you go through life. So that's what I had to say

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about transformation. Does that make sense
to you? It does. It was

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absolutely gorgeous, Michael, and I
think that a lot of people who are

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listening to this are probably scrambling and
writing notes as quickly as they can.

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That was great, really really brandt
copency insight perspective, and I completely agree

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with you. I don't know,
I'm sure they're out there. Let's find

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them, right, I know,
or any companies that I can point to

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that I could say they're really proactively
on the ball about being able to bring

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up their level of workforce capabilities to
handle the digital tr information that's happening to

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them already. So you know,
I know both of us want to be

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on the curve of that. So
this is this is a huger way to

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invite conversation to that see who and
says, hey, I want to hear

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more, I want to do more. So listeners that this is at all

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interesting to you, please contact Michael
and on you know how to find me.

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I'm at at least core test on
Twitter. You can get me at

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least at least core test dot com
and I will pass on to Michael as

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well. So, Michael, I
next want to talk about unless there's anything

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else you want to say about digital
transformation. I want to talk about what

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you What you say is that the
death of dialogue. Is there anything else

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you want to say though, first
about digital transformation? No, I'm good

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to go to that. Okay,
of course I intrigued with with that,

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with that whole I love the way
that you language that death of dialog.

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First, What do you need by
that? Well, I mean look around

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you, right, get on a
news program and see that nobody will listen

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to anybody else before they start yelling
over the top of them what they think

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should be done on any topic in
the media. It's happening in any kind

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of dialogue, you know. The
civility of the nation, maybe even the

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world has gone down significantly. But
there are reasons behind that, right,

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and some of it is because we're
not even thinking that we need to do

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it anymore. I completely agree,
And when we do see it, it's

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so refreshing, Right, it's just
refreshing. I will say, just quickly,

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and this is very small on the
scale here, but I'm here in

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New York Citium in Manhattan. Before
I came on air, I popped into

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a bar to get a snack and
had a nice, beautiful salad. It

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was great. But when I walked
in, Michael was always I was completely

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taken it back. I was greeted
with a very hearty hello from the back

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of the art. It was just
so arresting. And it just began like

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that, and I sat down,
got my menu, got my food,

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knocked out some etmail, and there
was this wonderful interaction and banter that was

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happening with me and around me,
and it was so refreshing. So you're

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right, I think there is an
absence of stability, and when it shows

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up, it's incredibly refreshing and energizing. Yeah, right about. Well,

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let me give your listeners a visual
that they can think about. I've actually

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posted this on LinkedIn and we'll send
it to you electronically to share with anybody

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who wants it. I don't even
know where it came from, but it's

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really neat graphic and it's called the
cultural Iceberg. And I heard two philosophers

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talking about this on a YouTube hour
and a half conversation that they were having,

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so I looked it up and it's
pretty fascinating. So the cultural Iceberg,

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for those of you who can't see
the image that I'm looking at,

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is an iceberg. It literally has
only about what a tenth of the iceberg

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above the water level, and then
there's all the stuff that's beneath it,

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and what is in the top.
I'll just read those, and I'll give

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some matters of what's under the water. And the top of that is language,

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and then folklore, fine arts,
dress, literature, holidays and festivals

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and food. Those are the things
that are easy to see. So those

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are at the surface and easier for
us to deal with down below. And

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the difficult to see right below the
water is beliefs and assumptions, and family

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roles and self concepts and core values
and approaches the health and medicine. And

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there's a bunch of them. I
won't go through all of them. But

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the point is, and the way
that the philosophers we're discussing it, is

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that what often happens what I see
in that example that I gave with the

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newscasts that you see where they have
two people that hate each other and don't

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want to really listen to what the
other say because they have a pre set

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narrative that they want to get across
to all of their listeners, is that

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language itself, even though it's easy
to see in this cultural lifesberg. It's

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the place where we're falling apart because
there is no civility in the ability for

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somebody to articulate what it is that
they believe in, why they believe in

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it, and what we should do
about it, right, Because before you

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can get those things done, then
the other person is already discounting the language

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that you've used. So the civility
is necessary. We need to raise civility

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back in order to get to a
place where we can actually have a conversation.

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And it's falling apart there below that, right, the core values one.

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This is why in the mission statement
that you read, my directors,

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the board directors and I decided that
virtues is going to be our focus for

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twenty eighteen. And it's really virtue
ethics, right, which was started by

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Socrates and of the Platoons and everybody
that is into Greek philosophy. But the

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virtues are actually things that are known
and understood and accepted as good and true

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across all cultures. So I had
the opportunity a couple of years ago to

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be on the board of the Virtues
Project. A friend of mine was there

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invited me to help and I put
together a little program for them. But

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the but the really neat thing about
the learning there was that across every faith,

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across every people group, across all
these things, there are things that

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we all believe in and that we
can use as I as I think of

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them as a Rosetta stone to have
a dialogue that is safe, right,

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so that we can keep religion out
of it, we can keep you know,

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whatever the biases are, and basically
talk from a standpoint where we actually

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have something that people millennia and longer
have agreed is a good thing to do.

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So that's kind of how we started
with the whole idea of virtues.

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Now, obviously in our association,
which has been around since nineteen fifty two,

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you know, they all have a
code of ethics, so we look

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at our code of ethics and we
think that that's great. Well, we

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believe is that we need to bring
those things into corporations, and not just

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in the training of people, but
in the way that we set objectives,

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the way that we set strategies,
and the way that we handle how we

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deal with whatever the roadmap ahead of
us is. Would you like to respond

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to any of that before I contigue
or how would you like to go Yes,

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I would thank you, Michael.
A couple of things come to mind.

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First. What I certainly got out
of that is when you talk about

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civilized discourse and just dial oup in
general, I certainly think about just simply

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the ability to listen, the wonderingness
to listen, and when we listen really

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well, of course, what happens
is the other person, as you say,

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then begins to start to let down
fair defenses and feel safe, be

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able to share their perspective because you're
not immediately attacking them and shutting them down.

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And I think that listening is an
incredible skill that every single person and

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certain leaders need to cultivate. So
that's one. The other one is really

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looking for the other person. I
mean that in its entirety, looking for

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what matters to the other person,
what lights them up, what it motivates

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them, what are they looking for
in life? And if we could start

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from that vantage point, I think
it would open a lot more dialogue too,

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versus just let me get what I
want to say. And of course

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these are all things that I do
in my consulting and look for and when

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I'm coaching someone that's always the basis, so I think those are all ingredients.

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And then last I would say,
you know, you and I have

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done a lot of work together over
the years with crucial conversations, and I

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think there's an awful lot in there. And you talk about what you said

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before about the iceberg. Being able
to separate fact from story is such a

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huge way I think to open a
more authentic dialogue. I would just respond

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with that to presence more of it
for our listeners, be where you go

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on, but go ahead, yeah, now, I totally agree with all

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that, And that's where I was
going to go with the crucial conversations,

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right. It is a fascinating piece
of work and a fascinating thing for people

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to learn how to do. But
it is difficult, right, And it

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is more I think it's even more
difficult when you're doing an in writing versus

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in person, because I don't know. I think I think it's easier to

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say somebody is ugly. Not I'm
not saying ugly, but you know they're

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00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:48.839
being ugly in bad patorative terms online
because you're safe, right, They're not

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sitting across the table from you,
They're not sitting in a bar with you,

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they are somewhere else and you can't
see them, so we're going to

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like, let me last that person. So that stability, you know,

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you have to really practice it online
as well, and I'm still learning that

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myself. You know. It's I
love a good debate, So I have

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some friends who have different opinions about
different things in the world, and we

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like to go out after it.
So I'm not saying that that's not good

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because I think in that conversation,
if you are keeping it civil and you're

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separating the facts from the story and
then sticking to the facts as much as

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possible because it's humanly impossible, I
think to do it completely. What do

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you think about that? I think
that's just gorgeous, is what I think

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about that. I think that,
in fact, I don't remember why I

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was just speaking with about this miacle, but when we were talking about how

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not only is it great to be
able to have debate and even you know,

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practical conflict, but because it actually
yields, It yields creativity, it

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yields, it yields learning, it
yields transformation because likely you personally would have

401
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never gotten to that perspective or that
understanding or that view without the other person

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and they've thus contributed to you.
Yeah. Yeah, And the thing that

403
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I love about that work with crucial
conversations is that after you have provided your

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facts and the tool of shared meaning, you have to you have to address

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and go to that person and pull
it out of them, even if they're

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not in a place where they want
to provide it right and with as much

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00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:30.640
passion as you want to bring your
ideas in, you've got to bring it

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00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.359
bring it out for them. So, yeah, it's a life it's a

409
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.400
lifelong learning, I believe well.
And I'm just coming in this brief and

410
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.599
we'll have to cut the break and
we can a continue this. But what

411
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:42.680
I would also say to that is
what you and I both know is that

412
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.880
the other person, and that's ourselves
included, aren't always ready or able to

413
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:51.319
provide what our perspective is. It's
not present enough for us. And so

414
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:56.440
somebody who's patient with us while we've
worked that through and contribute to our conversation

415
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:01.319
is critical. And with that,
take a quick break. Analiantez, your

416
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.640
host. We've been on the air
with Mike Roshell, who's a founder and

417
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.799
chief executive officer at Mike Proshell and
Associates and Management and Leadership Development Consultancy joined

418
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:14.000
today from Dallas, Texas. We've
been talking today or this segment about the

419
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:15.319
death of dialogue and what we can
do to get it back on track.

420
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.559
Stay with us, will be right
back. Elise Cortes is a speaker and

421
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:25.720
engagement and development catalyst. She designs
and delivers professional development, leadership and engagement

422
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.559
workshops and can bring her expertise to
your organization. She will help ignite meaningful

423
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:36.960
development within your workforce that will increase
employee engagement, performance and retention. To

424
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.000
learn more or to invite Elise to
speak to your organization, please visit her

425
00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:45.480
at www dot Elise Coortes dot com. She would welcome the opportunity to help

426
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:58.160
get your employees working on purpose.
This is working on Purpose with Elise Cortes.

427
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:02.720
To reach our program today, send
an email to a lease Alise at

428
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:09.119
a lease Coortes dot com. Now
back to working on purpose. If you're

429
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:12.960
just tuning in, I guess Mike
Roschell, who is the founder and chief

430
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:17.440
executive officer at Microshell and Associates and
Management in Leadership Development Consultancy. He's also

431
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:24.240
the president of AITPAFW and Nonprofitor's mission
is to develop ethical business technology leaders at

432
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:29.920
all levels by encouraging and growing active
leaders to impact the world through universal virtues

433
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.720
inaction. I'm your host, Relics
Cortes. So, Michael, before we

434
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.359
took our break, we were finishing
our conversation. I think about dialogue and

435
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:40.920
the importance of cultivating and bringing back
a stability. Anything else you want to

436
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:44.839
say about that before we go on
to our next topic. Well, I

437
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:47.680
think the transition into the next topic
is as you and I have talked about

438
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:54.839
for years, that it's really the
responsibility of leadership of a company to value

439
00:33:54.920 --> 00:34:00.680
their people as much as they value
money. Right. We all have incorporate

440
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:06.680
values or value statements that our people
are number one priority or something like that.

441
00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:12.280
Right, I have not seen that
play itself out for many years.

442
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.199
So the challenge to those of you
who are in positions of power, or

443
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:22.440
those of you who seek positions of
power, is to remember that people come

444
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:27.480
before process and technology. As a
matter of fact, how you treat those

445
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:34.440
people as individuals who have unique contributions
to make and have growth that they can

446
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:38.119
make will make a big difference in
the way that you're able to move the

447
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:43.079
value of your company forward. I
completely agree with that, which of course

448
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:45.079
is why I have spent the last
twenty years in some form of a human

449
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:49.159
capital position. So I completely agree
with that. Michael, thank you.

450
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:53.000
Okay, well, let's go on
to the next topic here for our final

451
00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:55.400
segment. Here. One of the
reasons I wanted to have you on the

452
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:00.440
show is, obviously I am focused
on being able to help people more emediately

453
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.159
connect with their passion and their purposes. I had a great conversation with one

454
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:07.800
of my previous guests, just done
a couple of times ago. At least

455
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.039
I've got somebody to bring it on
the show for you, because I think

456
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:14.800
he really speaks about people actually discover
and connect with their passion. I'm like,

457
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.199
well, let's do it so for
you, Michael. You really,

458
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.800
in my view, you are the
consummate helper, you are the consummate servant

459
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:25.679
leader, and here you have been
for the last three years the president of

460
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:30.199
AITP here at Dallas Fort Worth.
I'm interested first if you'll tell us what

461
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.719
all that stands for, and it's
a lot of accredants for our listeners.

462
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.159
I want to understand a bit about
what what is that? What is this

463
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:40.920
organization all about? And why do
you so passionately care to lead it?

464
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:47.920
Yeah, so that's a great question. So the Association for Information Technology Professionals

465
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:55.679
started out in nineteen fifty two,
actually nineteen fifty one as a group primarily

466
00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:00.599
of accountants who were trying to figure
out these new things called computer and how

467
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:06.320
they could professionalize that industry. So
that's why an association agrees it's a nonprofit.

468
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:13.480
It's all volunteer led, volunteer organized, volunteer produced, right, And

469
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:17.960
the mission that you read is very
much along the lines of what most associations

470
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:22.119
are trying to do. Over the
last I would say, I don't know

471
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:27.119
twenty years, associations have kind of
fallen by the wayside. A very good

472
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:32.800
friend of mine who used to be
the CIO at the FBI, was interviewed

473
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:40.039
about ten years ago, and that
organization prophesied that associations would be would go

474
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:46.760
away at the dinosaur by two thousand
and eighteen, if not before that,

475
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:53.159
because people were not as interested in
getting together anymore and learning together how to

476
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:58.199
better the professions. They just wanted
somebody to tell them what certification they needed

477
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:00.920
to take, and move on.
But I'm happy to say that that is

478
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:05.280
not the case. So we have
a large and diverse membership. You know,

479
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:10.480
we have CIOs CTOs, which is
Chief Information Officer, Chief Technicial Technical

480
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:16.960
Officer, Chief Information and Security Officers. Not everybody has those titles. Some

481
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:22.719
of them are directors of cybersecurity or
leads in that particular organization, just depends

482
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:28.400
what it is. But then the
beauty of AITP is that we go from

483
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:37.599
the time to participant who's in a
technology field in college is a freshman all

484
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.639
the way through giving in retirement,
right, So it's a lifelong kind of

485
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:46.159
an association. And I'm really excited
that Bill Fly who's been an international president

486
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:52.079
of ATP and the president here in
Dallas for many many years. He has

487
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:55.880
forty five years of association history.
So we have some folks that have that

488
00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:00.800
kind of passion. He's still a
adjuct vesser and who's teaching JAVA at a

489
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:07.679
high school as well. And then
we have people like Mark Reynolds, who's

490
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:15.119
the CIO at Centratah, Mark Irbis
who's the interim present CIO at California Pizza

491
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:20.840
Kitchen. JD. Stotts, who's
the CEO at Whitney Penn here in Fort

492
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:28.159
Worth and a lot of other really
passionate people who are providing a service which

493
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:36.440
is monthly meetings, networking and things
like that that helps other individuals learn how

494
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:40.519
to lead better in their at their
level and really learn how to become the

495
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.320
next level of leaders they need to
be in order to progress through their career.

496
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:51.559
I can completely see how that fits
with you as a thinker, as

497
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.719
a in somebody who thinks in a
forward fashion of course as well, and

498
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:58.119
the heartbece of it too. The
lifelong piece is fascinating. I didn't know

499
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.800
that part. I also want to
understand, Michael. I mean, this

500
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.760
is one of those kind of things
where you know you're serving, to my

501
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:07.599
knowledge or not, there's no pay
for this. This is this is something

502
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:12.079
that people elect you to do,
and you serve correct. That's right,

503
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:15.679
Okay. All more reason that I'm
interested in having to talk about that because

504
00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:19.679
one of the things that I like
for our listeners to understand is that there

505
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.440
are lots of ways for us to
fill our overall life, so that there

506
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:28.039
is that work life inspiration that's meaningful
and gives us everything that we need.

507
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:30.880
And for you, as a leader, You've been even in this space for

508
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:35.800
years as long as I've known you, and I think that you're absolutely who

509
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:40.199
you are is probably very resonant with
the mission of that organization. Do you

510
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:45.679
agree or disagree or ads attract?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean,

511
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.079
this is this is where I'm in
the when I'm doing this, and

512
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:54.559
I can't remember the language that you
use off the top of my head.

513
00:39:55.079 --> 00:40:00.320
But Judy Gwicksmith from Atlanta came to
speak to us last month. He talks

514
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:06.000
about flow leadership and the leadership class
that we had before our chapter meeting.

515
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:08.400
She and I were there and she's
like, you're in flow, in that

516
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:15.320
situation right where time and space kind
of disappear and you're really super focused on

517
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:20.360
helping people understand who they are in
the world, how they can become their

518
00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:22.840
next better self. And the cool
thing about that, the thing that gets

519
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:27.360
me most excited about it, is
that this can be a lifelong pursuit.

520
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:32.119
Right. I don't believe in retirement. I don't ever plan to retire because

521
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:37.159
I want to see what I can
become, right, and that passion then

522
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:43.119
feeds into other people and how they
can become their next best iteration of themselves

523
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.719
as well. So a couple of
things to that. And you know,

524
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:47.360
my research is probably better than most
people on the whole entire planet too,

525
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:52.079
because you've been with me since early
day. One say about how that language

526
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:58.679
lands for me is one is you
know, certainly you know what you're doing

527
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:00.960
in that organization is inseparable from who
you are. It is just you.

528
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:05.480
You're just being microshell. That's what
I'm the first out of that. So

529
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:08.440
in many ways, what I would
say is, you know, there's two

530
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:10.599
ways to look at that. You
can say that it's resonant, it just

531
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.039
fits me, but I think in
your case it's higher than that. There's

532
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:16.920
a higher order than that in terms
of the meaning scale that I use.

533
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:21.880
And so I think in many ways
you are leaving your purpose by doing that

534
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.199
work from the Maslow's hierarchy of need, which you and I have talked about

535
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:29.719
for years. For me, it's
self transcendent, right, So, and

536
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:35.119
the way that most people think of
him is that they just get to self

537
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:42.920
actualization, self actualization without impacting others, and their ability to be self actuated

538
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:46.599
is not worth anything to me,
right, I have to be helping others.

539
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:51.960
That's just the way as to your
point that I'm built, Yeah,

540
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:54.719
you're governed that way, that is
your DNA. That's absolutely it, right

541
00:41:55.960 --> 00:42:00.719
and you know so for those of
you who like Strengthfinder that that maps over

542
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:06.639
to the developer strength but he does
it like writ large, one hundred timescale

543
00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:13.199
kind of thing. So I'm also
interested in understanding from you, Michael,

544
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:15.920
with regard to your position as president, what are you trying to accomplish in

545
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:20.039
that organization? What are you trying
to move it to? So, so

546
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:22.840
let me read the mission one more
time and then I'm want to add the

547
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.760
objectives because the mission is kind of
why we exist, and then the objectives

548
00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:30.679
kind of lay out how we're going
to impact the world, so to develop

549
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:35.119
ethical business technology leaders at all level, encourage and grow active thinkers. So

550
00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:37.320
we want we don't want to just
do things because it's always been done that

551
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:42.599
way. We want to look at
what the new technology is, blend it

552
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.039
with how we actually help people change
through it, and buy that change the

553
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:50.480
world in a positive way. And
the reason that we're doing it positively because

554
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:54.440
we're using universal virtues and action,
which again is that rosetta stone that everybody

555
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:59.679
can gather to and move forward.
Together with. So that's kind of the

556
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:02.760
or the mission or the why,
right, And then how we do it

557
00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:06.960
is that we nurture and grow.
And this is a loaded word, but

558
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.639
I'm going to use it anyway,
and it's written there inclusive community. And

559
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:14.960
the reason I say that is because
there are lots of leadership organizations all around

560
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.679
the world that are very exclusive.
They only want to be with somebody that

561
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:22.000
has their same title. So we
like to put the titles on the side

562
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:27.239
and actually grow together. Right.
So in the way I think about this,

563
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.960
there's a gentleman on my board.
His name is Daniel Baskin. At

564
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:39.079
least I don't know that. So
he's the VP of sales at Saxon Partners.

565
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:45.280
But as we were riding the mission
and objectives, you know, there

566
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.519
are twelve people on our boards.
There are a lot of different opinions about

567
00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:51.760
what we should be and shouldn't be
and that kind of thing. But I

568
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:54.320
was mentored by him. Now,
he's at least twenty years younger than me.

569
00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:59.840
He may be more than that,
but he's an active thinker. You

570
00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:02.760
know. I really appreciate his mind
and the way that he articulates things,

571
00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:07.440
and he really helped me to modernize
my language, and that's why we said

572
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:12.440
inclusive. We said inclusive not only
because of the age group of people that

573
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:19.000
were interested in which is everybody,
but we're also interested in expanding beyond the

574
00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:25.039
traditional IT department. So there isn't
one fortunate thing about atp IS. The

575
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:30.599
name has been around for a while, but we've been talking about business technologists

576
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:35.159
because we are attempting to attract people
that are in the business, if you

577
00:44:35.199 --> 00:44:40.840
will, using technology. So cmos
chief marketing officers and CFOs people that use

578
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:45.719
technology all the time in their career
in order to move their profession forward.

579
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:52.800
Because over time we see that it
becomes embedded in those organizations and at some

580
00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:59.800
level the traditional IT corporate structure goes
away. Now I don't know exactly how

581
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:04.239
that it goes away, but some
of it is just as a standard decentralization

582
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:08.639
centralization cycle that most companies go through, where you push the people that know

583
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:13.800
the technology and the business into the
business for a while and then things get

584
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.599
kind of trade and the costs kind
of go out out of shape, and

585
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:20.719
then you bring it back into more
of a centralized mode. But I think

586
00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:24.199
moving forward and we're going to have
more and more of the centralization being around

587
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:30.559
core processes, and then the individual
business units will have business technologists that are

588
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:37.320
actually enabling their business based on those
core processes that the company provides and outsourced

589
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:44.159
processes and strategic vendors that help them
think through how to do certain newer things.

590
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.599
In about say thirty seconds, how
would you like to leave our listeners,

591
00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:52.800
Yeah, so what I would say
is that you find your passion,

592
00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:57.719
find your place to go grow.
I think through active service in the community

593
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.239
that you can grow exponentially, way
more than you can by just reading books

594
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:07.519
and thinking about things. It gives
you networking opportunities, to find new opportunities

595
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:10.760
in your own career path, and
also just to be a good citizen.

596
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.440
So I hope that some of these
things have been interested in to you guys.

597
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:17.519
Through a lease, you can reach
me at any time. Michael,

598
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:21.519
thank you so much for joining me
today. This was a splendid conversation,

599
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:23.960
was very enlightening. You gave us
an awful lot of actionable things to work

600
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:27.280
from. So thank you very much
for being my guests. Thank you very

601
00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:29.719
much for having me. I enjoyed
it. If you want to learn more

602
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:31.880
about Mike Chrishelle and the Marchians.
Colleagues you're doing, visit his website.

603
00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:37.519
It's MRAA dot Solutions. Next week
we have another conversation, we get another

604
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:40.000
engaging and interesting and informative guest.
See you then, or remember that work

605
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:43.519
is at least one third of our
life, so let's work on purpose.

606
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:51.480
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune in to Working

607
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:55.760
on Purpose, featuring your host Alas
Cortes, each week on the Voice America

608
00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:00.559
Empowerment Channel. This week, find
your life purpose at work