Digital Transformation - Putting People First

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose now. Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. On your host,

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Elise Cortez, joining you from New
York City this week where I'm doing

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some consulting. Great opportunities for me
here. This program is all about helping

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people more meaningfully and productively connect with
their work and equipping organizations to do same

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for their employees. I bring on
guests with a particular perspective or experience that

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I think expands the conversation about meaningful
and productive work. And I often draw

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on my own meaning work research I
mean doing the last fifteen years, as

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well as my own consulting experience.
Who ask me give you this a live

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show you can always catch a recording
of podcast. We were on the air

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with Alexa Rawlins, who was a
transition expert and founder of Spheres of influence.

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We talked about how to navigate key
live transitions, whether it's something personally

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going through a divorce or some of
the professional getting fired, even promoted to

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your dream job, that can both
be very stressful. It's all about transition

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and the way we tell about the
transitions that makes all the difference. With

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us, this week is a dear
life, not quite life long but long

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time friend of mine Microshell. He
is the founder and chief executive officer at

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Microschell and Associates, which is our
management and leadership development consultancy based on We'll

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be talking about the digital transformation in
the workplace and how dialogue has something somehow

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looked out of everyday life and what
we can do to restore it's place.

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He took a day from Dallas,
Texas. Michael, welcome to working on

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Purpose reading Where you How are you
today? I am great? Oh my

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gosh, it's so great to be
on the air with you after all this

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time. We talked about this some
time ago, about how come you haven't

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been on the air with me yet, and now it's time. Let's do

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this. You go looking forward to
me too, and I want to start

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if we can just let's crack right
into the content. So we bring our

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listeners in who came for a particular
piece of digital transformation. I want to

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start there my home. You and
I share an interest in that, right,

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I'm interested because I really really care
about how it is really transforming the

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way people are connecting their work and
do their work. Why are you interested

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in digital transformation? Well, I'm
primarily interested in it because it is the

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thing that's going to shape our work
for the next at least decade, if

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not forever. Because of this digitalization
of the entire world, people are being

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left behind, some don't know exactly
how to deal with it, and those

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in corporations, many of whom do
work that is automatable, are in a

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bit of prepidation as to what their
future might look like. So what I

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hope is that I can bring some
hope to those people that are that find

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themselves in that situation and then just
show that change is constant, and that

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change is the way that we as
a species evolved, and that we become

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better, and that what got you
here isn't going to get you there.

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I absolutely completely subscribe to at same
philosophy as you probably well know. One

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piece that I would add to that
as well. Is that for me,

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since I care about how people meaningfully
and proactly connect with their work, I'm

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interested in how people find ways to
more connect with their work. And so

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my thinking is is if we can
help shed some awareness to know what our

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opportunities for people in relation to working
the technology and automation, how might that

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actually bring up their contribution to what
they're doing in their work. And what

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I know from my research, and
you have talked about this before, is

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that generally speaking, in a higher
level, you go up and like man,

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those hierarchy in relation to meaning connections, the more satisfying work is anyway.

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So I'm on quest to help people
more meaningfully entirely connect with their work

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too. Yeah. So in an
earlier iteration of my company, I called

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myself the helper of Joy. So
I think that shows you that I'm pretty

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much in alignment with what you're talking
about. It's that each individual has to

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find that path to get forward in
their own way, right, It is

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an individual path, but there are
guide posts along the way to getting that

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better meaning, better connection to what
it is but you're doing and the benefit

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of the feelings of accomplishment when you're
able to do it for yourself and help

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others along that way. And we
both know, right, we worked in

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a lot of changements. We both
know that that is incredibly uncomfortable for a

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lot of people to be faced with
that, and so right, helping them

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work through that, helping organizations work
through that is I think there's a real

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contribution to make there. And to
that end, Michael, if you could,

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I know you speak from some pretty
interesting stats I've seen. You've talked

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a bit about something about twenty five
million to twitter three five million people will

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change roles by twenty thirty. Wow, I mean that's a lot of shift.

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Can you say more about that?
Yeah, So that stat came and

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I've heard it in numerous places now, but that came from a Future of

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Work survey or summary that mckensey did. And the summary of the summary,

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to your point, is that seventy
five million to three hundred seventy five million

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people are going to change roles by
twenty thirty. And then about twenty three

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percent, and this is the part
that brings people to trepidation, twenty three

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percent of us work hours are automation
ready. That's across the board. Across

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all industries. Now, in some
industries they're more heavily impacted by than others.

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Right where there's repetition where you can
robatize the process through automation, that

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those roles are impacted more quickly.
But as we get into the second and

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third generation of robalization, then you
can get into the situation where actual thinking

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and decision making is being done by
the robotic process. So, like I

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said, it's going to impact everybody. So the priorities as you look forward

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in this new world that is so
changing and it's changing so fast, is

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that there are some priorities that we
as leaders need to think about. We

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need to make sure that we are
growing the economy because by growing the economy,

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we provide more opportunities for those higher
level jobs that you and I seek

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and many of your listeners do.
That we will have to do skills upgrade

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every three years. Right, So
basically the thing that you're doing today is

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not the thing that you're going to
be doing three years from now, and

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that along that path you're going to
have to find that direction that this is

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a fluid labor market. Accenture calls
it a fluid labor market. It's just

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that your career, you move from
role to role, and much like a

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consultant's life. So for those of
us who have been in consulting for many

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years, even though the dry spells
between projects are still difficult, it's a

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little more easy for somebody that does
work on a project basis to do this

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new way of working. But more
and more people are going to find themselves

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in that situation where their skill set
is needed for a particular season. That

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season maybe for a month, it
maybe for six months or whatever. And

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what all of this means is that
we have to provide as leaders. And

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this is where I find myself a
bit of a revolutionary in the working world.

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Right, We, I think,
are responsible for the people that we

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lead, and then you have to
help them to identify what that roadmap looks

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like for themselves and then help them
with transition support. So and this is

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in the best interest of the company
too. It's in the best interests of

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the of an investor as well,
because you're actually taking advantage or taking responsibility

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for and growing an asset, right, people being one of the assets that

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their company has and has been under
developed for years. Yes, I don't

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remember what stats of you and I
talked about this before, Michael, but

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that some companies spend like less than
one percent of their overamunch of people development,

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which obviously has to change drastically for
this to really take off. I'm

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very interestful in being part of the
solution of being able to help organizations bring

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up their talent force to be able
to meet those market needs around digital transformation

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and automation, artificial intelligence, to
all those things that just scare people to

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death. Very much interested in that
well. So so to the end,

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Michael, do you do you have
any any any thoughts or anything you can

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share to what you're seeing organizations do
that maybe is a step in the right

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direction. Yeah, so leading edge
organizations are actually addressing this strategically rather than

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waiting for the ball to drop right. And what that means is that I'm

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going to give you an example some
of the information that I sent you that

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I received from CEB a perspective on
change, and I'm going to use the

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IT industry because that's the one that
I've been working in for the last twenty

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five years than the one that I
know the best, and I can actually

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walk through kind of the process of
what just looks like from an individual in

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that role. So let's say that
from it, if you looked at a

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regular graph, on the left end
side, you have diminishing importance to heightened

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importance, you know, on a
vertical axis, and on the bottom you

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have future ports within the organization.
And it started out a loan and it

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goes to high. So it's similar
to the chart that you use for your

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work. There is a point where
most of the roles that are existing today

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are in the diminishing importance arena and
they're being deinvested from a company perspective,

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So I'll give you an example.
In a world where we don't have data

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centers sitting in a company anymore.
The infrastructure director, the person that actually

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directs the purchase, the placement,
the backup, and all of the things

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that happens within the infrastructure goes away
because Microsoft and Google and Amazon and bunches

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of other people are providing infrastructure that
is more sound, more secure, and

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less expensive than you can do by
yourself. So that infrastructure manager has thirty

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years of experience. And it's not
just the managing of the stuff, it's

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the managing of the culture of the
company, where the different functions happen around

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the globe and all that stuff.
So as somebody, if somebody's in that

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situation, they have two choices at
least, I'm going to make it a

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two choice situation. Obviously they're multiple. Then I'll just make it too for

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simplicity. Say they can decide that
they're going to cut their salary on an

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annuallyzed basis and go to work for
anth for an outsourcer. Or they can

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start moving up in value to the
company so that they move above that line

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where there's no importance to the company
or to the organization. So I'll give

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you a couple of examples there.
They could move into the information architect role.

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They could move into an IP strategist
role. They could move into a

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chief architect role. They could move
into account management role of the outsourcer that's

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actually providing the infrastructure service. The
thing is that between an infrastructure manager or

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director and those roles there is a
gap, right because they have been trained

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traditionally and engineering and they know how
to deal with stuff. Now they're going

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to be dealing with contracts, and
they're going to be dealing with a little

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more politics, and they're going to
be dealing with things that they've never dealt

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with before. So wouldn't it be
cool if we had a way to assess

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where they are today and said they're
sitting here and they have all these great

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skills, and then to move them
up into one of those other roles that

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are higher value to the company,
we need to add four to six capabilities,

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so we have a two or three
year transition period, maybe it's less

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than that, right, so that
then they can have access to training.

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And this, to your point,
at least that one percent or less than

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one percent, depending on where the
companies aren't. Tech companies obviously spend more

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than that because that's their business buying
large in corporate America, and they've not

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been spending a lot. So that
is going to have to increase. But

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it needs to increase from both from
a scale perspective. And I did some

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work with Pierson Education just a few
years ago, and when you're working you're

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working with the people doing leadership development
for the people that are actually creating the

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software of the future. Where the
trend is going is so that it's completely

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individualized, right, So it's not
just any infrastructure manager moving to any account

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manager role. It's at least Cortez
with all of her wonderful skills and wonderful

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capabilities. I would add to it, as I think you would as well,

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what their strengths are, what they're
really good at, and what they're

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not really good at. Right,
So, if somebody is an extrovert and

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really likes to deal with people and
may have those infrastructure skills, that account

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management role would probably be a good
role for them, But it may not

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be a good role if they're not
that unless they want to grow in that

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way, and that's their choice,
right. So then you take all of

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that who they are and what they
are, and the actual skills and capabilities,

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and then start moving them in a
path that is strategic. And that's

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that's something that I've not seen anybody
do yet, but there are some people

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in the marketplace. They are making
these things happen in a short period time.

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Well, I know that's something both
you and I are committed to ourselves

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professionally to helping orginations do. And
we're gonna talk more about that. Let's

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take a quick break. I'm your
host Elis Cortez. We're on the air

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with Michael Rachel, who is the
founder and chief executive officer at Mike Rochelle

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and Associates and Management and Leadership Development
Consultancy Engergency from Dallas, Texas. We've

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been talking a bit about digital transformation
in the effect it has on how we'll

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need to transform our workforces into the
future. Stay with us, We'll be

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right back. Alice Cortez as a
speaker and engagement and development canalyst. She

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designs and delivers professional development, leadership
and engagement workshops and can bring her expertise

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to your organization, helping night meaningful
development within your workforce that will increase employee

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engagement, performance and retention. To
learn more or to invite a lease to

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speak to your organization, please visit
her at www dot Elise Cortez dot com.

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She would welcome the opportunity to help
get your employees working on purpose.

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This is working on Purpose with Elise
Cortez. To reach our program today,

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send an email to Elise ali Se
at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back

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to working on purpose. If you're
just joining us. My guest is Michael

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Schell, who was the founder and
chief executive officer at Microshell Associates, Leadership

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Development, Development Consultancy He is also
the president of aipp DFW, a nonprofit

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whose mission is to develop ethical business
technology leaders at all levels, blayingcuracting,

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and growing active thinkers to impact the
world through universal virtues in action. We've

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been talking about digital transformation and it's
impact in the workforce. I want to

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see a little bit more about that
as we continue on here. I'm your

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host at these quartets. So,
Michael, we were talking before about what

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this really requires on an individual basis
for people to handle the change that's involved

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in digital transformation. Can you see
more about you, what's your experience,

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is what you're doing to help organizations
in that manner? Sure? So,

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like you said, it is an
individual thing to make change happen in one's

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own life. If you have a
vision like we talked about before, of

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growth where your organization is actually helping
you to put that together, that builds

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an engagement at a loyalty that few
companies are going to have. And now

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that we're in a nearly zero unemployment
basis economy, keeping the right employees is

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very important, right, So having
something that actually provides that kind of engagement

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and that kind of stuff is something
that really should matter as things go by

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now, let's think about it from
an organizational perspective, because organizations don't happen

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in a vacuum. And matter of
fact, the way that I think about

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it is that you have to mature
the capabilities of the entire organization as you

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begin a journey of innovation. So
let's say that they're going to do a

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project based on things technology or the
automation that we talked about, robotic process

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automation, whatever, the actual technology
that enables this change to happen. Let's

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think about behind the scenes, what
is going to happen to the culture of

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the organization. So the first thing
you need to make sure that you think

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about is the customer experience. You
don't want to do something that's going to

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negatively impact the customer experience just because
it's automated, right, So you have

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to take that into consideration. The
culture of the organization also needs to be

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taken in iteration. And you know, some cultures are caustic, some cultures

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are good, and so you can
go from caustic to good and then good

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to great. So it really depends
on where you are. But you need

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to assess what that looks like and
then determine who the stakeholders are in a

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particular change, what the impact to
them is, and then put together individualized

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communication plan about what the value to
that individual is, because, as in

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my experience, if you don't tell
somebody, and that somebody can be the

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person that's in the data center,
or the person that's at the front office

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in a retail store, that could
be an executive, that could be an

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executive's assistant. All of those people
have different perspectives and they need to be

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communicated at the level that they are
interacting with whatever the process is that you're

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thinking about changing. So it's good
to know those things before you start changing

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things. I mean, once you
identify candidate processes, then you need to

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look at data driven insight. That's
where business intelligence comes in, where you're

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actually considering what the value of particular
change might be and then helping the organization

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actually embrace that change. There are
lots of different paths to go about doing

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that, but a part of that
change effectiveness from life perspective is what we

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talked about first, which is adding
capabilities to the leadership team. So you

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know, in a lot of a
lot of situations, we have organizations that

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are being run in a way that
is not a very mature, uh you

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know, twenty first century management style, just to be frank, right,

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So leadership has to sometimes change the
way that they do things and the way

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that they measure things as well.
So it's not just on the individual contributor

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to make this change, but it's
an entire organization because things start at the

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top and then they filter down,
right. And if if that's not if

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that is not a real change that
happening from the executive level and there's no

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energy behind it, and there's no
passion behind it, and there's no communication

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going both ways from those organizations,
it's not going to happen. So I

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think I like to think of it
as crawl, walk, and then run.

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So start out with small projects and
then go to bigger ones, and

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then as the organization begins seeing the
benefit to them individually, then to the

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team, and then to the organization
obviously driven by what the customer experience is

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going to be, then you can
accelerate and do more and more of the

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automation and more and more of the
innovation as you go through life. So

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that's what I had to say about
transformation. Does that make sense to you.

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It does. It was absolutely gorgeous, Michael, and I think that

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a lot of people who are listening
to this are probably scrambling and writing notice

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quickly as they can. That was
great, really really brandate compency, insight

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perspective, and I completely agree with
you. I don't know. I'm sure

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they're out there. Let's find them, right, I don't know are many

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companies that I can point to that
I could say they're really proactively on the

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wall about being able to bring up
their level of workforce capabilities to handle the

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digital transformation that's happening to them already. So you know, I know both

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of us want to be on the
curve of that. So this is this

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is excuse, a way to invite
conversation to that. See who who joins

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and says, hey, I want
to hear more, I want to do

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more. So listeners that this isn't
all interesting to you, please contact Michael

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and on you know how to find
me. I'm at at least Cortez on

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Twitter. You can get me at
least at least cortest dot com and I

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will pass on to Michael as well. So Michael, I next want to

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talk a bit unless there's anything else
you want to say about digital transformation?

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I want to talk about you.
What you say, is that the death

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of dialogue? And is there anything
else you want to say though, first

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about digital transformation? No, I'm
good to go to that. Okay,

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of course, I intrigued with with
that, with that whole I lovely the

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way that you language that death is
first. What do you need by that?

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Well, I mean, look around
you, right, get on,

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get on a news program and see
that nobody will listen to anybody else before

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they start yelling over the top of
them what they think should be done on

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any topic in the media. It's
happening in any kind of dialogue, you

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know. The civility of the nation, maybe even the world has gone down

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significantly. But there are reasons behind
that, right, and some of it

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is because we're not even thinking that
we need to do it anymore. I

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completely agree, And when we do
see it, it's so refreshing, right,

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it's just refreshing. I will say, just quickly, and this is

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very small on a scale here,
but I'm here in New York City and

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in Manhattan. Before I came on
air, I popped into a bar to

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get a snack and had a nice, beautiful salad. It was creating except

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but when I walked in, Michael
was always I was completely taken aback.

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I was treeted with a very hearty
hello from the back of the bar.

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It was just so we're resting,
and it just began like that, and

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I sat down and got my name, you got my food, knocked out

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some etmail, and there was this
wonderful interaction in banter that was happening with

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me and around me, and it
was so refreshing. So you're right,

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I think there is an absence of
stability, and when it shows up,

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it's incredibly refreshing and energizing. Yeah, so what we need to bring about,

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Well, let me give your listeners
a visual that they can think about.

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I've actually posted this on LinkedIn and
we'll send it to you electronically to

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share with anybody who wants it.
I don't even know where it came from,

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but it's really neat graphic and it's
called the Cultural Iceberg. And I

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heard two philosophers talking about this on
a YouTube hour and a half conversation that

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they were having, so I looked
it up and it's it's pretty fascinating.

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So the cultural iceberg, for those
of you who can't see the image that

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I'm looking at is an iceberg.
It literally has only about a tenth of

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the iceberg above the water level.
And then there's all the stuff that's beneath

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it, and what is in the
top. I'll just read those and I'll

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give smatters of what's under the water. And the top of that is language

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and then folklore, fine arts,
dress, literature, holidays and festivals and

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food. Those are the things that
are easy to see. So those are

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at the surface and easier for us
to deal with down below, and the

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difficult to see right below the water
is beliefs and assumptions, and family roles

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and self concepts and core values and
approaches the health and medicine. And there's

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a bunch of them. I won't
go through all of them. But the

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point is, and the way that
the philosophers were discussing it is that what

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often happens. But I see in
that example that I gave with the newscast

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that you see where they have two
people that hate each other and don't want

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to really listen to what the others
say because they have a pre set narrative

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that they want to get acrost to
all of their listeners. Is that language

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itself, Even though it's easy to
see in this cultural iceberg, it's the

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place where we're falling apart because there
is no civility and the ability for somebody

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to articulate what it is that they
believe in, why they believe in it,

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and what we should do about it, right, Because before you can

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get those things done, then the
other person is already discounting the language that

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you've used. So the civility is
necessary. We need to raise civility back

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in order to get to a place
where we can actually have a conversation.

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And it's falling apart there below that, right, the core of values one.

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This is why in the mission statement
that you read, my directors,

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the board directors, and I decided
that virtues is going to be our focus

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for twenty eighteen. And it's really
virtue ethics, right, which was started

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by Socrates and all the platoons and
everybody that is into Greek philosophy. But

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the virtues are actually things that are
known and understood and accepted as good and

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true across all cultures. So I
had the opportunity a couple of years ago

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to be on the board of the
Virtues Project. A friend of mine was

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there, invited me to help,
and I put together a little program for

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them. But but the really neat
thing about the learning there was that across

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every faith, across every people group, across all of these things, there

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are things that we all believe in
and that we can use as I as

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I think of them as a Rosetta
stone to have a dialogue that is safe,

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right, so that we can keep
religion out of what we can keep,

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you know, whatever the biases are, and basically taught from a standpoint

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where we actually have something that people
of millennia and longer have agreed is a

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good thing to do. So that's
kind of how we started with the whole

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idea of virtues. Now, obviously, in our association, which has been

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around since nineteen fifty two, you
know, they all have a code of

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ethics. So we look at our
code of ethics and we think that that's

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great. What we believe is that
we need to bring those things in the

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corporations, and not just in the
training of people, but in the way

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that we set objectives, the way
that we set strategies and the way that

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we handle, how we deal with
whatever the roadmap ahead of us is.

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Would you like to respond to you
that before I continue, or how would

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you like to go? Yes,
I want it, Thank you, Michael.

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A couple things come to mind.
First. What I certainly got out

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of that is, even when you
talk about civilized discourse and just dialog in

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general, I certainly think about just
simply the ability to listen, the wideringness

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to listen, and when we listen
really well, of course, what happens

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is the other person, as you
say, then begins to start to let

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down beared defenses and feel safe,
be able to share their perspective because you're

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not immediately attacking them and shutting them
down. And I think that listening is

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an incredible skill that every single person
and certain leaders need to cultivate. So

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that's one. The other one is
really looking for the other person. I

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mean that in its entirety, looking
for what matters to the other person,

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what lights them up, well,
it motivates them, what are they looking

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for in life? And if we
could start from that vantage point, I

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think it would open a lot more
dialogue too, versus just something get what

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I want to say, and of
course these are all things that I do

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in my consulting and look for and
when i'm coaching someone that's that's always a

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basis, So I think those are
all ingredients. And then last, I

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would say, you know, you
and I have done a lot of work

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together over the years with crucial conversations, and I think there's an awful lot

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in there, and we talk about
what you said before about the iceberg.

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Being able to separate fact from story
is such a huge way, I think

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to open a more authentic dialogue.
And I would just respond with that to

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presence more of it for our listeners
before you going, but go ahead,

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Yeah, now, I totally agree
with all that, And that's where I

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was going to go with the crucial
conversations, Right. It is a fascinating

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piece of work and a fascinating thing
for people to learn how to do.

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But it is difficult, right,
And it is more I think it's even

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more difficult when you're doing and they're
writing versus in person, because I don't

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know, I think I think it's
easier to say somebody's ugly, not I'm

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00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:47.279
not say ugly, but you know
they're being ugly in bad protorted terms online

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because you're safe, right, They're
not sitting across the table from you,

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they're not sitting in a bar with
you. They are somewhere else and you

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can't see. I'm so we're gonna
like last that person, so that that

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stability, you know, you have
to really practice it online as well.

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And I'm still learning about myself,
you know. It's I love a good

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debate. So I have some friends
who have different opinions about different things in

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the world, and we like,
we like to go out after it.

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So I'm not saying that that's not
good because I think in that conversation,

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if you're keeping it civil and you're
separating the facts from the story and then

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sticking to the facts as much as
possible because it's humanly impossible, I think,

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to do it completely. When you
think about that, I think that's

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just gorgeous, is what I think
about that. I think that In fact,

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I don't remember why I was just
speaking with about this, Michael,

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but we were talking about how not
only is it great to be able to

401
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have debate and even you know,
practical conflict, but because it actually yields

402
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.200
it yields creativity, it yields it
yields learning, It yields transformation because likely

403
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you personally would have never gotten to
that perspective or that understanding or that view

404
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:07.359
or without the other person, and
they've thus contributed to you. Yeah.

405
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Yeah, And the thing I love
about that work with crucial conversations is that

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after you have provided your facts and
the pool of shared meaning, you have

407
00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:22.519
to you have to address and go
to that person and pull it out of

408
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:25.920
them, even if they're not in
a place where they want to provide it

409
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:29.920
right, with as much passion as
you want to bring your ideas, and

410
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:33.759
you've got to bring it, bring
it out for them. So it's a

411
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.039
life it's a lifelong learning, I
believe well, and that's coming in this

412
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:40.279
briefly, and we'll have to cut
to break as we can always continue this.

413
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:42.119
But what I would also say to
that is what you and I both

414
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:47.039
know is that the other person,
and that's ourselves included, aren't always ready

415
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:51.079
or able to provide what our perspective
is. It's not present enough for us.

416
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:55.079
And so have somebody who's patient with
us while we've worked that through and

417
00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:00.839
contribute to our conversation is critical.
And with that, send a quick break

418
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.240
and as your host. We been
on the air with Mikeroschell, who's the

419
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:08.160
founder and chief executive officer at Microschell
Associates, management and leadership development consultancy.

420
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:13.680
Join to Day from Dallas, Texas. We've been talking today or this segment

421
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.960
about the death of dialogue and what
we can do to get it back on

422
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.960
track. Stay with this, We'll
be right back. Elise Cortez is a

423
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.839
speaker and engagement and development catalyst.
She designs and delivers professional development, leadership

424
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:30.599
and engagement workshops and can bring her
expertise to your organization. She will help

425
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:36.599
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that
will increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

426
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.079
To learn more or to invite a
lease to speak to your organization,

427
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:45.440
please visit her at www dot Elise
Cortez dot com. She would welcome the

428
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:57.000
opportunity to help get your employees working
on purpose. This is working on Purpose

429
00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.720
with Elise Cortez. To reach our
program today, send an email to Elise

430
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:07.720
ali Se at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

431
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:12.640
If you're just tuning in, I
guess it's Microchell, who is the founder

432
00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:16.640
and chief executive officer at microschell and
Associates and Management in Leadership Development consultancy.

433
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:22.000
He is also the president of ai
T p AFW and nonprofitious mission is to

434
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.640
develop ethical business technology leaders at all
levels by encouraging and growing active figures to

435
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:31.000
impact the world through universal virtues in
action. I'm your host, Elise Cortez.

436
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:35.960
So, Michael, before we took
our break, we were finishing our

437
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:39.079
conversation. I think about dialogue and
the importance of cultivating and bringing back the

438
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:43.200
stability. Anything else you want to
say about that before we go on to

439
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.880
our next topic. Well, I
think that the transition of the next topic,

440
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.920
as you and I have talked about
for years, that it's really the

441
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:57.599
responsibility of leadership of a company to
value their people as much as they value

442
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:04.319
money. Right, we all have
say incorporate values or value statements that our

443
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:07.719
people are number one priority or something
like that. Right, I have not

444
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:14.639
seen that play itself out for many
years. So the challenge to those of

445
00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:17.320
you who are in positions of power, or those of you who seek positions

446
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:24.000
of power, is to remember that
people come before process and technology, and

447
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:31.719
matter of fact, how you treat
those people as individuals who have unique contributions

448
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:36.559
to make and have growth that they
can make will make a big difference in

449
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:40.320
the way that you're able to move
the value of your company forward. I

450
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:44.480
completely agree with that, which of
course is why I have spent the last

451
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:47.239
twenty years in some form of a
human capital position. So I completely agree

452
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:52.280
with that. Michael, thank you. Okay, well let's go on to

453
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.519
the next topic here for our final
segment. Here. One of the reasons

454
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:59.000
I wanted to have you on the
show is obviously I am focused on being

455
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.480
able to help people mar imedequally connect
with their passion and their purpose. It's

456
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:06.679
got to have a great conversation with
one of my previous cats. It's not

457
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:07.840
a couple of times ages. At
least I've got somebody to depending on the

458
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:13.360
show for you, because I think
he really speaks about people actually discover and

459
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:15.719
connect with their passion. I'm like, well, let's do it so for

460
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:20.719
you, Michael. You really,
in my view, you are the consummate

461
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:24.039
helper, you are the consummate servant
leader, and here you have been for

462
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:28.880
the last three years the president of
ai TP here in Dallas court Worth.

463
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:31.440
I'm interested first if you'll tell us
what all that stands for that's a lot

464
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:35.960
of acronyms for our listeners. I
want to understand a bit about, right,

465
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:38.920
what is that? What is this
organization all about? And why do

466
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.800
you so passionately care to read it? Yeah, so that's a great,

467
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:51.079
a great question. So the Association
for Information Technology Professionals started out in nineteen

468
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:57.719
fifty two, actually nineteen fifty one
as a group primarily of accountants who are

469
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.639
trying to figure out these new things
called computers and how they could professionalize that

470
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:07.199
industry. So that's why an association
agrees it's a nonprofit. It's all volunteer

471
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:15.320
led, volunteer organized, volunteer produced, right, And the mission that you

472
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:19.639
read is very much along the lines
of what most associations are trying to do.

473
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:22.920
Over the last I would say,
I don't know, twenty years,

474
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:27.760
associations kind of fallen by the wayside. A very good friend of mine,

475
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:34.480
who used to be the CIO at
the FBI, was interviewed about ten years

476
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:40.519
ago, and that organization prophesied that
associations would be would go the way of

477
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:49.239
the dinosaur by two thousand and eighteen, if not before that, because people

478
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:53.559
were not as interested in getting together
anymore and learning together how to better the

479
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:58.559
professional. They just wanted somebody to
tell them what certifications they needed to take

480
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:01.599
and move on. But I'm happy
to say that that is not the case.

481
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:05.599
So we have a large and diverse
membership. You know, we have

482
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:12.760
CIOs CTOs, which is chief Information
Officer, Chief Technational Technical Officer, Chief

483
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:17.880
Informational Security Officers. Not everybody has
those titles. Some of them are directors

484
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.280
of cybersecurity or leads in that particular
organization, just depends what it is.

485
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:30.039
But then the beauty of a TP
is that we go from the time that

486
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:37.679
a participant who's in a technology field
in college as a freshman, all the

487
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:42.440
way through giving in retirement. Right, So it's a lifelong kind and association.

488
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:46.760
And I'm really excited that Bill Fly
who's been an international president of a

489
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:52.480
TP and the president here in Dallas
for many many years. He has forty

490
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.920
five years of association history. So
we have some some folks that have that

491
00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:00.760
kind of passion. He's still a
adject for esser and who's teaching JAVA at

492
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:07.400
a high school as well. And
then we have people like Mark Reynolds,

493
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:15.760
who's the CIO at Centronta. Mark
RBIs who's the interim present CIO at California

494
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:20.559
Pizza Kitchen. JD. Stotts,
who's the CIO at Whitney pinn here in

495
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:27.280
Fort Worth, and a lot of
other really passionate people who are providing a

496
00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:34.719
service which is monthly meetings, networking
and things like that that helps other individuals

497
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:39.960
learn how to lead better in their
at their level and really learn how to

498
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.800
become the next level of leaders they
need to be in order to progress through

499
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:51.320
their career. I can completely see
how that fits with you as a thinker

500
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:53.920
and somebody who thinks in a forward
fashion of course as well. And the

501
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:58.320
heart piece of it too, a
lifelong pieces fascinating. I didn't know that

502
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.039
part. I also want to understand, Michael. I mean, this is

503
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:06.320
one of those kind of things where
you know you're serving to my knowledge or

504
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:08.039
not. There's no pay for this. This is this is something that people

505
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:13.679
elect you to do as you sir
correct. That's right, okay. All

506
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:16.559
the more reason that I'm interested in
having you talk about that because one of

507
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:20.079
the things that I like for our
listeners to understand is that there are lots

508
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:22.719
of ways for us to fill our
overall life. So that there is that

509
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:28.800
work life inspiration that's meaningful and gives
us everything that we need. And for

510
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:30.760
you as a leader, You've been
even in this space for years as long

511
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:37.239
as I've known you, and I
think that you're absolutely who you are is

512
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:42.519
probably very resonant with the mission of
that organization. Do you agree or disagree

513
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:45.920
or adds attracted? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, this is

514
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:51.440
where I'm in the when I'm doing
this, and I can't remember the language

515
00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:57.800
that you use off the top of
my head. But Judy blick Smith from

516
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:00.599
Atlanta came to speak to us last
month and he talks about flow leadership and

517
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:07.159
the leadership class that we had before
our chapter meeting. She and I were

518
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:10.800
there and she's like, you're in
slow in that situation right where where time

519
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:16.960
and space kind of disappear and you're
really super focused on helping people understand who

520
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:21.400
they are in the world, how
they can become their next better self.

521
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:23.960
And the cool thing about that,
the thing that gets me most excited about

522
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:29.159
it, is that this can be
a lifelong pursuit. Right. I don't

523
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:32.760
believe in retirement. I don't I
don't ever plan to retire because I want

524
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:37.960
to see what I can become,
right, and that passion and leads into

525
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:43.519
other people and how they can become
their next best iteration of themselves as well.

526
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:45.519
So a couple of things to that. And you know my research probably

527
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:49.039
better than most people on the whole
entire planet too, because you've been with

528
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:54.039
me since early a day. One
about how that language lands for me is

529
00:40:54.480 --> 00:41:00.199
one is you know, certainly you
know what you're doing in that organization is

530
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:02.199
inseparable from who you are. It
is just you. You're just being microshell.

531
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:07.000
That's when I first date of that. So in many ways, what

532
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:09.119
I would say is, you know
there's a pullays look at that. You

533
00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:13.280
can say that it's resonant, it
just fits me, But I think in

534
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:15.440
your case it's higher than that.
There's a higher order than that in terms

535
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:19.920
of the meaning scale that I use, And so I think in many ways

536
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.360
you are leaving your purpose by doing
that work. So the Maslow's hierarchy have

537
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:27.599
made, which you and I have
talked about for years. For me,

538
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:31.159
it's self transcendent, right. So, and the way that most people think

539
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:38.480
of him is that they just get
to self actualization with self actualization without impacting

540
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:45.599
others and their ability to be self
actuated is not worth anything to me,

541
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:49.119
right, I have to be helping
others. That's just the way. As

542
00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.159
to your point that I'm built,
Yeah, you're governed that way. That

543
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.119
is your DNA. That's absolutely it, right And you know so for those

544
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:01.519
of you who like strength Finder,
that that maps over to the developer strength

545
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:07.159
But he does it like writ large, one hundred time scale kind of thing.

546
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:13.599
So I'm also interested in understanding from
from your Michael, with an ourd

547
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.639
position as president, what are you
trying to accomplish in that organization? What

548
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:21.599
are you trying to move it to? So let me read the mission one

549
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:23.559
more time and then I'm want to
add the objectives because the mission is kind

550
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:27.960
of why we exist, and then
the objectives kind of lay out how we're

551
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:31.679
going to impact the world, so
to develop ethical business technology leaders at all

552
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:36.079
level, encourage and grow active thinkers. So we want we don't want to

553
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:38.800
just do things because it's always been
done that way. We want to look

554
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:44.559
at what the new technology is,
blend it with how we actually help people

555
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.480
change through it, and buy that
change the world in a positive way.

556
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:52.400
And the reason that we're doing it
positively because we're using universal virtues and action,

557
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:57.760
which again is that Rosetta stone that
everybody can gather to and move forward

558
00:42:57.800 --> 00:43:00.280
together with. So that's kind of
the ver younger or the mission or the

559
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:05.280
why right, And then how we
do it is that we nurture and grow.

560
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:07.000
And this is a loaded word that
I'm going to use it anyway,

561
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:12.000
and it's written there inclusive community.
And the reason I say that is because

562
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:15.400
there are lots of leadership organizations all
around the world that are very exclusive.

563
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:20.800
They only want to be with somebody
that has their same title. So we

564
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:24.519
like to put the titles on the
side and actually grow together. Right.

565
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:29.039
So in the way I think about
this, there's a gentleman on my board.

566
00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:30.840
His name is Daniel Baskin. I
don't at least I don't know that.

567
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:42.079
So he's the VP of Sales at
Saxony Partners. But as we were

568
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:45.599
writing the mission and objectives, you
know, there are twelve people on our

569
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:49.320
boards. There are a lot of
different opinions about what we should be and

570
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:52.079
shouldn't be in that kind of thing. But I was mentored by him.

571
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.119
Now, he's at least twenty years
younger than me. He may be more

572
00:43:55.159 --> 00:44:00.679
than that, but he's he's an
active thinker. I really appreciate his mind

573
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:06.159
and the way that he articulates things, and he really helped me to modernize

574
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.440
my language. And that's why we
said inclusive. We said inclusive not only

575
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:14.480
because of the age group of people
that were that were interested in which is

576
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:21.519
everybody, but we're also interested in
expanding beyond the traditional IT department. So

577
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:27.119
there isn't unfortunate thing about atp IS. The name has been around for a

578
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:32.320
while, but we've been talking about
business technologists because we are attempting to attract

579
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.480
people that are in the business,
if you will, using technologies. So

580
00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:44.039
cmos chief marketing officers and CFOs people
that use technology all the time in their

581
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:49.159
career in order to move their profession
forward. Because over time we see that

582
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:54.800
it becomes embedded in those organizations and
at some level, the traditional IT corporate

583
00:44:54.920 --> 00:45:00.639
structure goes away. Now I don't
know exactly how that goes away, but

584
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:06.960
some of it is just as a
standard decentralization centralization cycle that most companies go

585
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.400
through, where you push the people
that know the technology and the business into

586
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:15.239
the business for a while and then
things get kind of frayed and costs kind

587
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:17.880
of go out of shape, and
then you bring it back into more of

588
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:22.239
our centralized mode. I think moving
forward that we're going to have more and

589
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:28.239
more of the centralization being around core
processes, and then the individual business you

590
00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:32.400
that will have business technologists that are
actually enabling their business based on those core

591
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:40.360
processes that the company provides and outsourced
processes, and strategic vendors that help them

592
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:45.920
think through how to do certain newer
things. And about say thirty seconds,

593
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:50.400
how would you like to leave our
listeners? Yeah, so what I would

594
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.559
say is that you find your passion, find your place to go grow.

595
00:45:54.239 --> 00:46:00.199
I think through active service in the
community that you can grow exponentially, way

596
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:04.639
more than you can by just reading
books and thinking about things. It gives

597
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:08.559
you networking opportunities, to find new
opportunities in your own career path, and

598
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:13.880
also just to be a good citizen. So I hope that some of these

599
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:15.840
things have been interesting to you guys. Through a lease, you can reach

600
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:19.800
me at any time. Michael,
thank you so much for joining me today.

601
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:22.079
This was a splendid conversation, was
very enlightening. You gave us an

602
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:25.000
awful lot of actionable things to work
from. So thank you very much for

603
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:28.480
being my guest. Thank you for
last for how and may I enjoyed it.

604
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:30.079
If you want to learn more about
my croshell of our key and his

605
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:35.760
colleagues are doing, visit his website. It's mr AA Dot Solutions. Next

606
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:38.559
week we have another conversation, we
get another engaging and interesting and informative guest.

607
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:42.039
See you then, Remember that work
is at least one third of our

608
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:49.760
lives, so let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

609
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:52.920
Be sure to tune in to Working
on Purpose, featuring your host Alas

610
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:59.440
Cortez, each week on the Voice
America Empowerment Channel. This week, find

611
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:00.480
your life purpose at work