Creating Transformative Encounters in the Workplace

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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Working on purpose. Now Here is
your host, doctor Elise Cortes. Welcome

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back to the Working on Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, joining you live from Dallas,

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Texas, which is home base for
me. If you've been tuning in for

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a while, you know this program
as a thought leadership series that enlightens and

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inspires listeners with insights from distinguished business
leaders and subject matter experts. Our conversations

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are designed to make you think,
inspire you to ever reach for cultivating your

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best, and take an informed approach
toward leadership and business. Our guest today

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is doctor David Drake. He's the
founder and CEO of the Moment Institute,

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which is a global network of practitioners
dedicated to advancing his life's work in narrative

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coaching and integrative development. He's the
author of over sixty publications, including as

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lead editor of The Philosophy and Practice
of Coaching, co editor of Sage Handbook

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of Coaching, and author of Narrative
Coaching, The Definitive Guide to Bringing New

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Stories to Life. We'll be talking
about the work he does in narrative coaching

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and integrative development. Spend some time
delving into the theory and models and hear

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how he uses them to help organizations. He joins us today from Petaluma,

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California. David, Welcome to Working
on Purpose. Welcome Ellieve. So great

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to have you and listeners. I
always like to tell you where I find

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my guests. I was mining my
own business mostly I was on LinkedIn,

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and David happened to show up on
my search because he and I went to

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Field and Graduate Institute twenty years ago. So, David, you and I

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met twenty years ago, which is
just a mind bogging in and of itself.

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You have been a very busy man
the last two decades, and you

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know that I'm a meeting and work
researcher and identity researcher. So how would

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you describe or situate yourself as to
who you are today for our listeners.

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Yeah, it's interesting as you live
long enough and you move through various phases

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of your life. And I went
from being sort of a very competent OD

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consultant to a doctoral student and emerge
on the other side as the founder of

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narrative coaching and spend about a decade
writing as a scholar to build an academic

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foundation for that body of work,
and traveled all over the world to teach.

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And I'm not moving into this phase
now where I'm moving into more of

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a mentoring phase where we're teaching a
faculty to run our programs with and for

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us, and sort of moving back
into more of a pure thought leader space

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as we grow the business because we've
got more things in store. So it's

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been fun to kind of watch myself
take this journey. And yeah, well

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it's really it's really firing to behold. And as I told you when I

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read the book chapter in the article
that you sent me, I really appreciate

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the clarity of your writing, which
tells me that you know this stuff right.

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You know, you're an academic,
right when you really know something,

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you you convey it in the ability
of your reader to grasp what you're saying.

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So hats off, it's an inspiration. And to that end, I'm

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really just impressed with what you've done
at the moment Institute. So why does

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it exist and how was it born? Well, it actually was born in

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some ways out of your first question. So for me, I realized the

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world didn't really need any more theories
about management and leadership, It didn't really

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need more fancy words. What it
really needed was sort of a movement of

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like minded folks trying to kind of
reimagine what it means to lead in the

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world that we find ourselves in now. And so in many ways, you

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know, we're trying to start this
movement of recognizing that practitioners are really hungry

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to really assemble their life, life's
work, really work in a more integrative

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fashion, kind of work in a
more human fashion, not caught up so

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much in the buzzwords of the day. And so when I realized that I

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wanted to move out beyond just narrative
coaching, we had to change the name

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of the business away from the Center
for narrative coaching, to think bigger about

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what the work we were doing and
take it out of even the professional realm

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to look at more of a global
impact from our work. And I realized

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that the one common thread that stood
out for all the work I've done for

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the past probably thirty plus years,
is I have this fascination with the choices

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that we have available to us in
any moment in time, and how do

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we help, say, for example, the leaders or managers that we work

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with, to make new choices under
lots of pressure. And so we found

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this way of bringing sort of a
psychos spiritual approach about self awareness and mindfulness

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into kind of more of a professional
and social approach, which is the context

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in which people were working, and
the institute basically studies what happens for people

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at that intersection, and then how
would you train practitioners to work in a

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very different way, which I'm sure
we can get into later, But the

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institute really created this platform to start
attracting all the people we've worked with over

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the last thirty years to begin to
go on this journey to lean into the

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unknown, which the pandemic is as
really accelerated, to begin to discover how

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we might do our practice in a
fundamentally different way, and so the institute's

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basically doing R and D and training
and coaching in that space to begin to

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imagine how else we might be in
service of our clients. Really appreciate that,

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David, from many many vantage points. One just the enormous impact that

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you're making across the world. And
the other thing that I certainly appreciate too,

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given that we're both probably about the
same age. You know, there's

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something about getting to the stage of
life in terms of lifespan development psychology.

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You and I both studied. I'm
sure you know we're at this generative stage

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where I don't know about you,
but being able to give something that that

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perhaps surpasses my own death is important. It is, and you're doing that,

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and I really really applaud that.
So thank you for that. And

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again it's an inspiration. I'm now
in the process of elevating and transforming my

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own business to make a greater rich
reach as well, so you are inspiring

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me to continue my quest. Thank
you, You're welcome. One of the

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many things that you say in your
website that is very compelling, David,

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that I want to share with our
listeners and have you speak to you say

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on the Moment Institute website, you
say, we are in a great unraveling

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and an awakening and opening toward a
great turning, which is a more life

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sustaining society. And I see that
you've worked with tens of thousands of practitioners,

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which is amazing end leaders around the
world at their thresholds. And the

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Institute is launching new programs to help
make this great pivot toward this new narrative

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we need. I want to unpack
each of those words and get you to

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speak to a bit of what's behind
that. There's a lot behind that whole

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statement there. Let's start with unpacking
those words first. First unraveling, what

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do you mean? So first have
to offer a credit to the great Joanna

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Macy who sort of pioneered this sort
of framing of the first two of the

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unraveling and the turning. And we've
added the great pivot. So you know,

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you have to look in the news
every day and you begin to see

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that a lot of the social fabric, our institutions, our notion of democracy

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are really sort of unraveling in a
variety of ways. And some done with

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hope and some done with I think
something else. And there's a lot of

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things that maybe at least you and
I grew up with, are just fundamentally

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different now. And people are really
yearning, like what does a school mean

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now? And how do we provide
healthcare for people? And how do we

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get different points of view in the
same room in a civil manner. And

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so, as with any change,
it often begins with an unraveling. It's

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like a a rope that the threads
are coming apart, and so people are

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responding in a variety of different ways. If you look at history, if

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you would look at history, say
one hundred years fron I looking back now,

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I think we'll discover that the pandemic's
just like I said, accelerating this

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moment in time where humanity is making
some fundamental choices that will forever alter the

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course of our history as a species. And so one of the options would

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be this sort of great turning.
So what if we actually woke up to

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what's happening around us, around the
environment, around race, around economics,

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around a lot of things, and
actually sort of turned and sort of moving

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towards a different frame for how we
want to be together, and so then

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raveling is sort of what's setting that
in motion. And we know enough about

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human nature from our studies at least
to know that people respond that from very

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different developmental perspectives. And so we're
I'm doing a lot of work right now

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helping our clients and our practitioners cope
with the unraveling so they can bring more

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of their best self to help turn
themselves and others around them in a different

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direction, to begin to seize this
moment. And for me, that sort

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of the constitutes a pivot. So
every day of our life, every moment

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right now, it seems like we're
having to make these big choices, and

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we're trying to set up the institute
to be able to support people to make

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those harder choices, to kind of
lean into some of the dilemmas we face

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otherwise. You know, I'm not
sure this will turn out very well for

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us, but I think there's a
great sense of hope for what we're doing,

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and a lot of practitioners are really
hungry for something besides the usual way

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of doing business because they see the
gravity and the opportunity that's in front of

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us. You know, one of
the things that is so great about getting

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to host this show, David,
and I've been doing it for five and

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a half years, I think your
number episode two hundred and eighty four or

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something like that. It has given
me such a profound way to continue my

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own learning while I share that with
my listeners. And so what it also

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does is it gives me access to
a network of other people that are like

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minded and heading in a similar direction. And so I see so much great

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work being done in the world to
help steward us toward that future that you

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just described that we want for ourselves
and do it in an intentional way,

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not just a reactionary way. So
I too have a lot of hope.

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Good good. So one of the
things you said in our phone conversation that

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was very interesting to me is you
distinguished learning in school. Will you do

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that again for our listeners. I'd
be happy to. So. I have

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a daughter who just finished high school
and I was just fascinating, slash horrifying

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to see what counts as high school
now and it's very different than I remember

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it, which isn't about nostalgia.
It just means that our schools have not

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really kept up with the rest of
our society and what's happened. Then that

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same model of school replicates itself in
corporate training programs and a lot of different

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aspects of our life, and there's
a lot of movement in that space,

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sort of in the places like the
con economy. But for me, I'm

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really fundamentally interested in how do people
actually learn, how do they actually grow?

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And it really has nothing to do
with how long you sit in a

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chair and listen to somebody. So
for me, I haven't done a traditional

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corporate training program for probably six or
seven years. I won't ever do them

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again. Most likely. I don't
find them a good investment of my life's

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time and my client's money. It's
an outdated model for many ways, beyond

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certain things like onboarding and basic skills
where there is just a lot of teaching

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involved. For me, I want
to get away from school as a paradigm.

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I think it's broken in many ways. Despite all the efforts of our

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nation's teachers, et cetera, that
we know enough about how learning actually happens

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through people like Pelofrari and others who
really took a more humanitarian and natural approach

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to learning, and so what we're
doing in the institute is teaching coaches and

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other practitioners to really let go of
a lot of their stereotypes or their assumptions

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about what they remember about school and
sort of empty their proverbial tea cup and

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come into what we're doing with a
very fresh mind about how do you help

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people actually learn and in many ways
what they start to discover that a it's

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actually easier than we think, but
b that requires letting go of a lot

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of the structures and power and control
that we're used to to actually move into

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more of a natural approach to learning. So for me, that's really at

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the heart of a lot of what
we do. David, for our listeners

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who aren't able to remove themselves as
fish swimming in the sea and therefore recognize

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they're in water, can you just
say a little bit about what's wrong with

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that? What do you mean by
traditional school, traditional workshop and learning?

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I mean assumptions like the So I
did this once when I was presenting in

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the Netherlands and their afternoon workshop person
got ill at lunch and had to leave.

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So they asked me to step in
with like no preparation, no notice,

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and so we went to the room
that they had set up for us

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like seventy five people, and all
the chairs were in rows, very close

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together, all facing the front.
And I asked these people, so,

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what are the assumptions that are implicit
in the way this room is set up

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by the hotel. Oh, well, that all the entries are up front,

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we have to be polite and sit
in straight rows. We can't actually

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talk to each other. And so
for me, most schools are even the

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ones that are maybe more contemporary in
style, still assume that you can know

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ahead of time what you need to
know. There's a fixed curriculum, it's

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sort of guided or provided by the
faculty person that the best thing to do

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is then test you about all that, and learning and testing and scores and

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grades kind of go together, which
they don't at all. And it really

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then becomes more about if you look
at students, their aim is to perform

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well at school. It may or
may not have anything to do with what

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they actually have learned, where the
value of what they've learned, or the

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generative nature of what they've learned.
It's just that they've passed all the right

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hoops to complete the process. And
so for me, when you look at

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like the joy of learning when you
were a kid, you know, before

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you discovered school and it kind of
wrecked that it was just all about curiosity

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and creativity and connecting with people and
being part of your surroundings. And I

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just feel like, even in a
technology saturated environment like ours, that it's

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we need to kind of go back
to what we understand about how people actually

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learn and build systems and communities around
that, not about how to kind of

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move in almost like a factory like
fashion through some that somebody else is set

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up beautiful. That helps so much
distinguish what it was you were trying to

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convey. And then to that end, to add to that, I got

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to believe that when you talk about
the power of human connection as a foundation

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for learning, that's got to undergrade
what you just said. Yes, no,

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kind of sort of totally, because
you know, we humans are relational

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beings, even those of us like
myself, we're introverts, we are fundamentally

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relational beings. That's how we've survived
this long as a species. That's how

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we've thrived as a species. And
yet you know, so much of our

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performance systems at work are grading in
schools or even some of our status systems

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and communities really has to do with
individual performance, particularly in the US,

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less so in other parts of the
world. But the US is obsessively individualistic

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in many ways, while we're not
doing so well with a pandemic, and

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societies that are more communal in nature
or social in nature, relational in nature,

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say like in Asia, Australia,
Europe, have a much greater sense

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of the common good, much more
willingness at times to supplant, you know,

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to let go of one's own individual
needs for the good of the whole,

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because in the end that's better for
everybody and even for yourself. And

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so fundamentally, what we find now
is that people are lonely. People want

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more connection, they want more meaningful
connection, they want more substantative relationships.

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And so for me, again,
when everything is based on individual competition or

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achievement, sort of the hero kind
of myth, that really a goes against

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how we understand humans, but b
is really not very conducive to learning.

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So for us, we're really interested
in and we're finding this right now.

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We're starting a new membership program for
our community. And when we've been doing

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the research about what they most want
from it really has very little to do

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with content. It has everything to
do with the quality of relationships they experience

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in our community. We've had this
so many times these last few weeks as

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we've gotten started that many of them
have said, and many of our folks

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have never actually met each other,
but they said, I have better connections

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here than anywhere else in my life. Yes, totally understand. Yeah,

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and it's I think that's people are
especially right now. We need this more

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than ever. And again goes back
to schools don't teach us about relationship.

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They teach us about stuff. And
people don't want any more stuffy. Yeah,

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see you. They want they want
meaning and purpose, they want intimacy,

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they want a sense of hope and
contribution. And so we're trying to

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tie those innate human needs to their
own learning journeys to help them fulfill that.

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I love it, David. I'm
so glad to have you as a

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guest. Let's grab our first break, Emily Cortez, we are near David

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Drake. He's the founder and CEO
of The Moment Institute and the author of

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over sixty publications, including Coaching,
The Definitive Guide to Bringing New Stories to

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Life. He joined it today from
Petaluma, California. We've been talking a

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bit about where his journey has taken
him and why it's important. After the

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break, we're going to talk more
about some of the theories and narrative coaching

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and the models. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Doctor Elise

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Cortes is a management consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and

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author, she helps companies visioneer for
greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate
fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the

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workforce. To learn more or to
invite Elise to speak to your organization,

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please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

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employees working on purpose. This is
working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes.

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To reach our program today or open
a conversation with Alise, send an email

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to a lease Alise at elisecortes dot
com. Now back to working on Purpose.

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Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to working on Purpose.

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If you're just joining us. My
guest is doctor David Drake. He's the

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founder and CEO of the Moment Institute, which is a global network of practitioners

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dedicated to advancing his life's work in
narrative coaching and integrative development. He is

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the author over sixty publications, including
as lead editor The Philosophy and Practice of

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Coaching, co editor of Sage Handbook
of Coaching, and the author of Narrative

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Coaching, The Definitive Guy to Bringing
news stories to Life. I'm your host

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Aalise Cortes. So for this next
segment here, David, I just really

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wanted to help our listeners get better
acquainted to some of the narrative coaching theory

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and models that you talk about.
We don't have a lot of time to

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talk about them, but just let's
give them somewhat acquainted. So let's start

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with You are, if not the
authority, one of the most that I've

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ever heard of on narrative coaching,
having spent twenty years working and refining it.

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I don't think I understood this was
part of your interest when I met

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you twenty years ago. So where
did this interest come from? Well,

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and a funny way, it actually
came from my late father. So my

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father passed away about halfway through my
PhD program, which was quite shock and

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i'd miss him now, even sometimes
twenty years later. And so then and

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I had our daughter at that point
around that time as well, and I

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remember when I finished at Fielding and
got my PhD. You know, at

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the time, I had a pretty
successful practice, but I just felt like

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there was something that I was missing, and I just turned some processing of

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that loss. I realized that,
you know, if I were to die

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that day, my tombstone would probably
read here lies Dave, a competent OD

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consultant and a really nice guy.
And I thought, surely, my life

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has to be more than that.
And so I realized that one of my

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family stories was that modesty was really
a strong virtue in our family, and

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I realized, well, heck with
that. I'm sort of done with that

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family story. So I decided that
day to create the field of narrative coaching

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and registered the domain name, which
I still have. And it really grew

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out of my realization that I was
one of the early sort of participants in

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coaching back in the early to mid
nineties, and I realized that so much

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even then of what coaching was becoming
was just sort of contrary again to everything

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I believed about learning and development and
my earlier career that said, now people

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are actually theyn't want more goals,
they don't need all these structures, they

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don't need all this stuff. And
so I created narrative coaching as a way

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for me to feel more at home
and coaching. And I started to realize

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that a lot of people were very
interested and at the time I started that

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wild West of coaching. So I
invested a lot of time, writing a

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lot of publications and being quite active
in the academic coaching space. Got picked

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up eventually as a thought leader at
the Institute of Coaching at Harvard and spoken

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about twenty five different countries about narrative
coaching, And for me, it just

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provided a way for coaching to feel
like an intentional conversation in which we're coming

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alongside someone else, We're not subjecting
them to our coaching model. And so

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what we find is because it's based
in a lot of basic adult psychology,

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that clients appreciate that it feels like
a natural conversation, but it has transformational

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impact. Oh David, this is
just yummy. So first let me say

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and listeners, you've heard me say
it before, and this is my finally

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inspired program. The importance. Right, there's something people don't understand the role

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that death has in our life that
because we all have a certain expiration date

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that which we don't know, it
gives us a sense of urgency and can

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certainly power purpose and the idea of
starting with the end in mind. What

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is my tombstone going to say?
Is something that I do also do in

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my programs or I have them right
there, not the epitaph, but the

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obituary. No, not the bituary. What they read it at the funeral

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is called I'll get there eulogy.
Eulogiulogy. So right, it's so important

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because when you start thinking about how
do I really want to do this thing

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and you work backward, you're a
perfect example of why that works so well.

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So let me acknowledge that. Thank
you, And then secondly, I

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do want to go more deeply into
your basic narrative coaching model. What I

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found so fascinating about what you wrote
is you really do help us understand how

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and why it works in your writing. So if you can do some symblans

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of that for our listeners here,
that would be great. Yeah, So

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coaching is really just a semi structured
conversation built around the change that either client

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is going through, or wants to
go through, or is afraid of going

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through. And so it's actually not
a coaching model in a way. It's

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actually a universal model for how people
move through change, because that's ultimately what

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people are trying to do through coaching. And so I used a lot of

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the research I did in writing I
did in my graduate program around rights of

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passage to build a sort of a
psychosocial change process, so not just about

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the individual, it's the individual in
context. And so the four phases really

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mirror the four phases of a change
journey. So I took the original rite

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of passage model, which usually has
sort of two or three phases, depending

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which one you look at, and
I actually added to the actually that part

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of the academic literature by drawing a
vertical line in the model to create four

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phases, because I realized in coaching
there's a difference between what you're looking for

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and actually what you're moving towards.
It basically starts with situate, which is

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a way for a client to become
more aware and more honest. Where are

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you now? There's no attempt to
try to change or anything. It's just

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a witnessing accepting where they are now. There's something about where they are now

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that they don't want or like or
wish. We're different, and then that

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sets them on a journey to say, so, what are you searching for?

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Which is the second phase? What
would make this more fulfilling or successful

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for you? What do you need
to discover or confronted by yourself? What

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are your values at risk? And
this is really a beautiful explorative phase kind

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of away from on top where you
are in the world. If you think

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of the sort of a two by
two matrix, that lower left quadron is

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search, and then that's when they
really get to figure out what the crux

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of their issue actually is. We
don't gather lots of information because most of

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it's not going to be necessary.
We teach our coaches how to listen in

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for what is the essence of its
what's really happening, And then there's this

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point at the bottom where they start
to make a fundamental choice like I would

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like to move on in my life
or my work or my leadership having addressed

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this particular issue. And in most
coaching models, you will at that point

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set goals. So we don't set
goals in this work CARDI. Ever,

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instead we invite people to kind of
step across this threshold or this point of

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choice, to say what would you
like to do differently about all this?

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And then move into a third phase, which is in the lower right hand

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corner, which has to do with
SHIFT. And this is a really fun

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place because the search is often creating
some new experiences for them, so they

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might discover part of themselves or discover
some new aspect of their issue. Shift

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is about experiments. We actually get
people to do new things right then and

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there in the coaching session because we
tell them if there's not any more space

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right now on this planet that's safer
and more caring for you than this one.

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If you can't do it here,
you're not going to do it on

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your own when the pressure's on.
So we create all kinds of really fun

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of what we call serious play experiments
that people try the things that they're aspiring

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to become, and then out of
that they kind of win O and sift

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out like what really stands out?
What really mattered to you about all that?

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And then we go up to the
fourth quadrant, which is called sustain,

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which is something that we spend a
lot of time on, but most

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coaches overlook because it's not part of
our normal contracting. But that's where the

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bulk of change actually happens, because
then they're taking what they're bringing forth back

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in the world or back in the
organization and say, what do you need

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to put in place that allows you
to sustain what you've discovered in coaching,

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And so we create a variety of
we have variety of resources to help people

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that way, and so there's this
spiral that connects us together. So if

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you have a big issue with a
client, it actually might go through these

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four phases a couple of times to
keep a moving through this issue to really

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create a sustainable change in the client. And all of this is done using

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pretty much only the material in a
client's story, because the client will present

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their issue is tucked away somewhere in
their body language, their word choice,

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and the beauty of this is the
resolution is already also present, and our

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job is to help the client come
to discover that. So that would be

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sort of a high level of view
of what narrative coaching does. Extremely well

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done and very interesting, and I
recognize that in many ways it does mirror

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my general approach, although I can
tell you that's the sustaining piece. You're

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right, is not something I spend
anytime on. Really, so extremely useful

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to have that distinguished Let's talk next
if we can, David. We don't

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have too much time in the segment, so I want to keeping as much

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as I can out of you.
So if you would talk about the developmental

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threshold model and how you use it
in your work coaching leaders. Yeah,

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So when clients are moving through the
model and through their own journey, they

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have certain choice points what we think
of stresholds they have to cross. And

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so what I started to realize that
there's a there's a theory in from lev

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Vygotsky and today's fancy word called the
zones of proximal development. It's mostly around

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children's development, but we bring that
into the adult landscape and say, when

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a client is exploring an issue,
they're going to get to the heart of

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it at some point. If they're
with you as a good you're a good

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coach with them, and that's that
choice point. Will I bravely step into

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this new way, like maybe share
more of my emotion or be more assertive

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or whatever is I'm about to do. And what we're doing from this sort

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of proximal development piece is we're looking
at what scaffolding would they need around them

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right now, in this moment in
time to allow them both to let go

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of what they had before, which
is not easy for most of us as

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adults, and step into a new
possibility, even if if it's just to

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experiment with it for a few minutes
in a coaching session. And so we're

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just looking at what did they need
to support them to do that, And

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what happens is then this becomes of
a mobius strip that as they take new

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actions, they gain more confidence,
they gain more awareness to themselves than which

408
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.559
feeds back to the first half,
which is a deeper understanding what was really

409
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.599
going on, what was triggering them, and then that deeper understanding what was

410
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.799
going on and what created all this
allows them to do the work, the

411
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:36.039
inner work to then go back out
into the world with even more robustness to

412
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.759
try out some of these new behaviors. And so these two sort of this

413
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:45.119
sort of moving back and forth just
really creates this deepening both awareness and new

414
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:49.240
level of action. And so this
we're looking at those sort of developmental thresholds

415
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:56.119
where clients can often make significant sort
of metas shifts in their own inner narrative,

416
00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:59.480
which not only helps them address the
issue they're talking to you about in

417
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:03.279
coaching, but they then can use
it in so many of their aspects of

418
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:07.960
their life. That's so exciting.
And what I really get from what you

419
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:11.759
just said there, David, isar
I hear an integrative threading. So they

420
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.000
come and they do some work with
you, and then they take and they

421
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.640
thread that back into their every day
to day life and work, and there's

422
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.000
an ongoing like I see it as
almost like an ongoing upward weaving, if

423
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.400
you will. Yes, that's a
great image. Yeah, awesome, Yeah,

424
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.240
that's how I got it well.
And then finally, if you would

425
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.759
share with us a little bit about
this work that you're doing to develop narrative

426
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:37.119
coaching practitioners across the globe. How
wonderful that you are literally cascading this ripple

427
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.480
across the globe. David. Yeah. So I've, like I said,

428
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:47.160
I probably have taught this work to
probably fifteen thousand practitioners and then a bunch

429
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.240
of leaders as well around the world, and so right now we're kind of

430
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:55.839
creating some platforms on our website to
begin to invite them all to come to

431
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:59.920
the piazza. That's sort of the
image we're using. Have a little cappuccino

432
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.759
us and get to get reacquainted.
See where the work is now. And

433
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.839
where we're finding too, is that
a lot of our practitioners are not just

434
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:14.440
interested in getting more masterful with their
craft. They want to talk to each

435
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.200
other in some ways even more than
they want to talk to me, which

436
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:21.240
is great. I see that as
a sign of success. And so we're

437
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:24.359
creating these ways for them to start
connecting. We're creating a sort of an

438
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.240
entrepreneurial path for some of them to
through a guild that we're forming where people

439
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:35.319
want to take this and apply it
in certain formats or certain sort of domains.

440
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:38.640
And so we're doing that, and
then we're probably the latter part of

441
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:43.680
next year, we'll start a narrative
healing program for all of our narrative coaches

442
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:47.440
that want to work in things like
attachment theory, trauma, grief, etc.

443
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:52.400
Areas that got kind of deep background
in my past to kind of go

444
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:57.279
into some of these harder issues with
their clients. And so we're start slowly

445
00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:00.880
starting to put that together as well
as a way to who bring this work

446
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:05.359
to the world outside of the field
of coaching itself, into the heart of

447
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:09.400
the issues that many of us are
confronted with these days. Beautiful, just

448
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:14.640
beautiful, very inspiring. David,
let's grab our last break. I'm Alice

449
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:16.240
Cortez, your host. We were
in there with doctor David Drake. He's

450
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:21.319
the founder and CEO of The Moment
Institute and the author of over sixty publications,

451
00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.880
including as lead editor of The Philosophy
and Practice of Coaching and co editor

452
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:29.599
of Sage Handbook of Coaching. He
joined it today from Petaluma, California.

453
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:31.640
We've been talking a bit about some
of the theory and models that he uses

454
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:35.240
in his work. After the break, we're going to hear how he uses

455
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:37.240
it with leaders and organizations. Stay
with us, we'll be right back.

456
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:43.160
Work. It's broken and needs a
serious overhaul. Want to help together.

457
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:46.759
Let's end the soul sucking experience.
It is where people drag themselves to collect

458
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:52.200
a paycheck and usher in a world
where work is synonymous with meaning and purpose,

459
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.039
where leaders inspire people to rise to
their greatness in service of their tasks,

460
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.359
and business is elevated to unleash spectacular
cause in the world. Here on

461
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:06.160
Working on Purpose, You're not just
part of the movement, you are powering

462
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:15.639
the solution. Listen each week on
Voice America Empowerment. This is Working on

463
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:20.599
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To
reach our program today or open a conversation

464
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:28.119
with Elise, send an email to
Aleise Alise at Elisecortes dot com. Now

465
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:30.840
back to Working on Purpose. Thanks
for staying with us, and welcome back

466
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:34.719
to Working on Purpose. If you're
just tuning in. My guest is doctor

467
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.239
David Drake. He's the founder and
CEO of the Moment Institute, which is

468
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:42.480
a global network of practitioners dedicated to
advancing his life's work in narrative coaching and

469
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:46.079
integrative development. He's the author of
over sixty publications, including as lead editor

470
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.760
The Philosophy and Practice of Coaching,
co editor of Sage Handbook of Coaching,

471
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:53.280
and the author of Narrative Coaching,
The Definitive Guide to Bringing News Stories to

472
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:58.519
Life. I'm your host, Elise
Cortes. So for this last segment here,

473
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:00.119
David, I really wanted to let
our listeners on some of the amazing

474
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.440
work that you've gotten to do,
and obviously we don't have time for much

475
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:08.880
to discuss it, but let's first
start with your interest in integrated development to

476
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:15.039
development practitioners. We talked obviously about
that in the last segment, but say

477
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:19.719
more about what is integrated development?
Why is it important? Yeah, so

478
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:22.719
this was sort of you know,
I guess I'm fortunate enough to start to

479
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:29.559
domains to fields in my life,
but this one came somewhat accidentally. I

480
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:32.840
went through sort of a difficult of
personal patch some years ago, and as

481
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:37.719
we often do in those moments,
I did a pretty significant life review and

482
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.519
kind of looked at all the projects
I'd done over probably twenty some ideas at

483
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:45.519
that point, and I asked myself
which ones did I most enjoy and which

484
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:51.199
ones actually worked? And I discovered
in doing so that they all had the

485
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:54.039
same pattern to them. Some started
out that way, but most of them

486
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:58.400
ended up that way along, And
so I thought, is what was I

487
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:02.320
doing in those projects that allowed them
to be so successful? And then I

488
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:06.920
started to realize there is this pattern, and so I started to do some

489
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:10.519
writing about that pattern, and then
slowly over time over the last five seven

490
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:16.679
years, sort of identified it as
integrative development. And it largely comes again

491
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:22.599
very similar to what we've been saying
about education, about learning why school doesn't

492
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:25.480
work as well or training doesn't work
as well. And fundamentally it started for

493
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:32.519
me at Fielding in bringing sort of
adult learning and development and organization learning and

494
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:38.719
development into one unified process that we
often complain about our clients and all those

495
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:43.360
silos are stuck in, But we
practitioners are just as bad, if not

496
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:47.079
worse, because we all have our
niche neural thing. And what I discovered

497
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:53.719
was that our clients needed something else
that wasn't limited to all the silos that

498
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:58.800
we threw at them. And if
you were doing a large safe change product,

499
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:02.039
you might have six or seven different
types of professionals working on the project.

500
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.199
I thought, this is ridiculous because
then you never get enough synergy or

501
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.159
momentum. And so I thought,
but to train people how to work like

502
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:15.760
this requires a body of work and
a theoretical base. So I've been developing

503
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:19.119
that. So we're working on a
book on this, which will be out

504
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:23.639
the first part of next year,
to begin to provide a way to frame

505
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:30.760
a project or frame a program from
an integrative perspective. And it brings.

506
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:36.280
And then what it does is the
narrative coaching becomes one of the applications of

507
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:39.239
integrative development as a frame. So
it allowed me to then take all this

508
00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:44.679
work i'd built a narrative coaching,
take it outside the coaching realm, and

509
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:49.519
make it applicable in any basically any
moment of our life, but particularly in

510
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:59.039
designing programs and projects in society or
in organizations. Beautiful and beautiful, and

511
00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:00.960
I appreciate what you said about just
being able to take a look at what

512
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:05.960
your own life and discovering the pattern
that you used. I've been doing something

513
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.360
similar in my work and somebody suggested
that to me, and it never occurred

514
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:10.199
to me to do that, but
when they said it, I thought,

515
00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:15.880
that does make sense. So I've
been doing something similar. Okay, So

516
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.719
the next thing we have to talk
about, which I just find so riveting,

517
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.360
as you and I talked about when
we first cross paths again twenty years

518
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:28.280
later, this idea of creating transformative
encounters in the workplace is just amazing to

519
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:30.280
me. David. So how do
you and the part teachers you work with

520
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:35.280
accomplish this? Well, probably the
easiest way, and this will come as

521
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:40.519
no surprise to you is actually to
tell you a little story. So I

522
00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:46.000
was doing a series of leadership programs
for a major bank through a partnership with

523
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:51.519
a local business school, and they're
all were fine, They got good reviews.

524
00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:53.800
You know, I found their agonizing
because everybody wanted to be involved in

525
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:59.840
everything. But I just felt that
was really the last corporate training program every

526
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:02.159
day, and I was about to
give up on all that. And then

527
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:07.119
the CFO of the bank said,
there's this one program that David created on

528
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:14.559
effective basically influential communication and storytelling.
We'd like that for all the financial leaders

529
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:16.760
in the bank, but we want
our own version of that. I said,

530
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:21.320
great, and so I went and
talked to him, and basically the

531
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.599
bottom line was they, as were
so many corporate environments, they lived and

532
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:29.360
died by PowerPoint, and they were
horrible at it and even worse presenting to

533
00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:34.840
it. And so I said to
the university and to the head of HR

534
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:37.119
for the bank, I will only
do this if you let me do this

535
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:42.280
my way. I will not just
give them a standard program. And if

536
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.719
you don't like that, go talk
to the CFO, because he doesn't want

537
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:50.360
it either. And so in essence, what we did was we created a

538
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:55.400
requirement that every participant had to bring
a slide deck for an upcoming significant presentation

539
00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.000
to the workshop, and if they
didn't have one, they were not allowed

540
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:02.559
into the room. Literally, And
some complained. I said, here's the

541
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:06.679
cfo's phone number. Feel free to
give him a call and see what he

542
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:13.079
thinks about that. Let me know
it goes and so, and then we

543
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:16.239
had to and there was and then
there's the big hurdle of repurposing the faculty

544
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:21.000
who got great joy out of being
the lecturer and the teacher and the expert.

545
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:22.760
I said, we're not going to
do any of that. We're gonna

546
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.199
throw away eighty eighty plus percent of
the curriculum, and we're going to turn

547
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:29.639
you and I into coaches. We're
not, and we'll only teach some very

548
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:34.639
tiny pieces. And then I gave
him this my four frame model, which

549
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:38.280
has some other other links to it
as well, and we basically said,

550
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:43.519
the participants, you have the entire
day, and I don't really care how

551
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:46.599
many slides you brought in. You're
leaving with four and using this frame.

552
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:51.440
And then there's all this panic and
all this stuff, and so then we

553
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:53.480
just said, well, and we're
here to help you. And so then

554
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:59.079
we just walked them through a process
for an entire day to peer coaching through

555
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.119
individual coach, through challenging them about
no, you don't need that slide and

556
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:07.400
here's why, and bless their souls, they all left that night with four

557
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:12.639
slides, and some had come with
as many as fifty. For I want

558
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:16.159
to tell you how short the presentation
was for fifty slides, and one woman

559
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:21.000
actually went out that night and actually
got one of the largest grants in the

560
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:27.960
history of the bank's foundation using the
presentation she created in our workshop, and

561
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.519
it was just mind blow And then
did about six weeks ago, actually delivered

562
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:36.360
their presentation and then I said,
use this for this framework for as many

563
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:38.960
other presentations as you want, and
then we're going to get together again in

564
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:43.880
six weeks. And so they came
back and they were just like blown away

565
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.119
how different things were. And then
we said, oh, by the way,

566
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:49.840
there's another surprise for this half day. At the end of the half

567
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.639
day, the four CFOs of the
bank are going to come in and you

568
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:55.519
have one slide. Oh no,
you know, let's panic again. Said

569
00:41:55.519 --> 00:41:59.639
we're here to help you. We'll
get you through this, and so they

570
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:04.519
did that, and they moved everything
down to one slide and presented to the

571
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:07.360
CFOs, who were just gobsmacked.
They said, if we talk like this,

572
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:10.360
it would utterly transform our bank.
Why are we not doing this?

573
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:15.599
And so what this does for me
is these these people had been to endless

574
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:20.719
trainings, I'm sure on effective communication, they still were horrible at it.

575
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:24.079
And so we just said we're going
to throw it away and just walk alongside

576
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:29.719
them with their actual documents, deal
with the emotional anxiety that comes up when

577
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:31.679
they don't have all their slides in
front of them, actually have to talk

578
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:38.000
to people. They and they loved
it. During the workshop you hear laughed

579
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:42.000
he everywhere they were helping each other, they were making fun of each other,

580
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:45.280
they were having And so for me, what I realized is that people

581
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:51.559
we need to bring their learning and
development together into one space about something that

582
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.199
matters to them, not that something
that we think they should know. That

583
00:42:54.280 --> 00:43:00.119
all the we had like seventy years
of experience between us as faculty. He

584
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:02.199
just said, we have all that
in our back pocket, but for each

585
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:06.719
individual person in the room, they're
going to need something different from us.

586
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:08.880
And so we don't know what they're
going to need until they bump into and

587
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:12.679
said, oh I need this,
or I'm afraid of this, or I

588
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.480
don't know how to do that,
and then we could sort of coach and

589
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:19.239
mentor them to learn that in that
moment of time to kind of move them

590
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:22.800
forward on their particular project. So
we did this for twenty five percent of

591
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:30.159
those less budget, twenty five percent
less time, and infinitely less agony of

592
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:34.039
trying to please all the stakeholders because
we had only had one mission, help

593
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.280
these men and women learn how to
talk to PowerPoint in a way that was

594
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:42.280
engaging and compelling for their audience,
so that the expertise that they offered was

595
00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:47.519
was as the brains of the bank
would be heard and followed by the other

596
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:52.199
leaders in the bank. I love
how you turned everything right upside down,

597
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:57.239
David that and brought it right down
to something so simple, human connection.

598
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.679
What matters to these people? Oh
my gosh. Yeah, we make things

599
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:02.400
a lot more harder than they need
to be, don't we YEA which is

600
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:06.840
often for our own satisfaction. It
doesn't really do anything for our clients.

601
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.920
Yeah, I get that. Sometimes
it just takes questioning things or somebody like

602
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:15.000
you to come in and question things. We don't have hardly any much time

603
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:19.000
left, David, but if you
could just maybe a couple of minutes speak

604
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:21.880
to the work that you were doing
with the team in Melbourne, Australia.

605
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:25.119
I found that so fascinating. You
help create new learning with them, and

606
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.480
so if you could say a little
bit about what the work that you were

607
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:32.199
doing and what you set out to
accomplish. Yeah. So these were all

608
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:37.079
of the senior leaders at the very
top of the Victorian government in Australia,

609
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:39.440
and I've done a lot of work
in Australia. I've actually lived there for

610
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:45.360
a while as well. And they
didn't want again, another curriculum, another

611
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:47.920
whatever. These people were dealing with, you know, raging bush fires,

612
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:55.000
the early stages of the pandemic,
rising population and economy, but downsizing of

613
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:59.719
budgets. They were just in and
so I said, there's nothing I can

614
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:04.360
teach them that's going to help them
with this. So we decided to a

615
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.840
guide buy in which I was actually
invited into by the director to do an

616
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:12.760
integrated development project with them, which
was that we had a structure for the

617
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:17.400
day, but it was really around
a series of nested conversations with each other,

618
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:22.360
some coaching practices with each other to
help them identify what would help you

619
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:27.760
much right now to get to a
place where you can actually stand back and

620
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:30.320
look at what's going on and make
some choices about what you want to do

621
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:36.039
differently as a leader. So again
with myself and another coach, that each

622
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:39.119
person articulated in the very start of
this day and af program what they most

623
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:44.639
wanted to use from us, what
they most wanted to get done differently,

624
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:50.599
And then we kind of walk them
through those series of conversations and they found

625
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:53.119
it was refreshing, it was light. They were so relieved we weren't going

626
00:45:53.159 --> 00:46:00.159
to teach them stuff because the volume
of things they had to grapple with wastra

627
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:02.679
ordinary. My hat's off to these
amazing men and women, and so we

628
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:07.159
said, we're not here to try
to again lecture them about anything. We're

629
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:13.320
here to help them feel better about
themselves. Were aware of themselves and identify

630
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:17.800
both personal and collective projects, but
they did to actually make their current situation

631
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:22.880
better for them. And we used
one of our models, the IB model,

632
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:27.840
to around identity, behavior, environment, aspiration, and mindset. The

633
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:34.119
core drivers for performance in leadership,
tell them to develop some simple plans for

634
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:38.559
themselves to kind of get through this
time and create a stronger platform for them

635
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:44.159
to become better leaders. And it
was just magical. It was just really

636
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:47.880
magical to watch what happened. And
they got higher turnout than they've ever had

637
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:52.599
for this level of program that they
ever could remember. They even had some

638
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.360
of their very senior leaders say can
we have more, which they'd never just

639
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:59.239
their jaw dropped. They'd never asked
for more. They always want to get

640
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:04.639
out of things because they were having
such a great time. David, that

641
00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:07.239
is such a stunning example of you
know what I hear when you even narrate

642
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:09.599
that, right, what it feels
like to get to do work where you

643
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:13.440
know you're making a difference, you
know you're making an impact, it's being

644
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:15.639
received the way that you intended it. And then to be asked for more.

645
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:20.159
Does it get better than that?
No, not for that, fapp

646
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:23.280
I'm having the time of my life. It's great. I'm so glad to

647
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:27.039
hear that. Well, here we
are at the end of the program already,

648
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:30.559
David, it just evaporated. So
you know, this program is designed

649
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.119
to help listeners across the globe more
meaningfully and purposely connect with their work.

650
00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:37.719
What would you like to leave them
with? Well, I think I was

651
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:39.400
talking to my graphic designer yesterday and
she said one of the things I just

652
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:43.679
admire about you at this stage in
your life, because she's our age,

653
00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:46.039
She said, you're just fearless.
You know a lot of us are retreating

654
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:50.199
and you're like leaning into it more. And I said, yeah, we

655
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:52.400
need to, And so I would
just leave you with you know, where

656
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:57.559
could you be more fearless in your
life to really pursue in your language at

657
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.239
least like what is my purpose here? And my purpose in some ways is

658
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:04.559
to leave the world in a better
place for my daughter than I found it,

659
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:08.599
and to really for the listeners.
I would just say, not only

660
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:15.960
where can you be more fearless,
but where can you actually get closer to

661
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:22.320
your own heart about what really draws
you in, what provides meaning for you?

662
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.760
Out of all the cacophony of the
things that are going around. Just

663
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:29.920
distill yourself enough long enough to say, I have a gift? Am I

664
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:34.639
giving my gift in a way that's
serving others and serving myself well? And

665
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:37.239
if we don't have time for anything
else right now, And I think the

666
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:40.440
people that will really stand out and
the years to come are the ones who

667
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:44.159
are going to put their hand up
and say, I'm not quite sure where

668
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:46.440
this is all going, but I'm
going to put my skin in the game

669
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:51.800
and go try to create something new
in this sort of grand unknown that we

670
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.280
live in now. Powerful way to
finish, David, I am so glad

671
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:59.400
to find you again. You were
well worth waiting for twenty years to have

672
00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:01.920
this conversation. Thank you very much
for being on working on Purpose. Thank

673
00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:06.360
you, Lise. Listeners, If
you want to learn more about doctor David

674
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.239
Drake, his work or his numerous
publications, start by visiting his website,

675
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:14.480
which is the moment Institute dot com. Last week, you to miss the

676
00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:15.920
live show, you can always catch
it be a recorded podcast. We were

677
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:20.639
on the air with Gabrielle Bouchet and
Brian Bauchet. We talked about there soon

678
00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:23.599
to be released book called The Purpose
Factor, Extreme Clarity for why You're here

679
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:27.280
and what to do about it.
Next week we'll be on the air with

680
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.079
Helle Bundegarde of the Motivation Factory Institute
in the Netherlands talking about how to regulate

681
00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:35.719
and manage this most precious resource,
motivation. See you there. Remember that

682
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:37.239
works at least or third of our
life. So let's work on purpose.

683
00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:43.000
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune in to Working

684
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:46.280
on Purpose, featuring your host,
doctor Elise Cortes, each week on the

685
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:52.840
Voice America Empowerment Channel. Together,
we'll create a world where business operates conscientiously.

686
00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:59.960
Leadership inspires impassion performance, and employees
are fulfilled in work that provides.

687
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:05.199
It's the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on purpose.