Creating the New Workplace Through Purpose

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host, Elise Cortes. In our

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program, we provide guidance and inspiration
from those people who have found deeper meaning

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and personal connection to their work life. It's beyond nine to five. It's

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working on purpose. Now Here is
your host, Elise Cortes. I'm your

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host, Elise Cortes. Join you
live from Dallas, Texas, which is

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home base for me. This program
is all about helping people more meaningfully and

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productively connect with their work and equipping
leaders to cultivate meaning and purpose in the

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workplace to elicit passion inspired contribution,
innovation, and persevering performance. So I

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seek out and bring on guests of
a particular perspective, experience, or expertise

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that I think contributes to this conversation. And as a management consultant and social

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scientist, I drawn the meaning and
work and identity research I've been doing over

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the last fifteen years, as well
as my experience consulting, speaking and developing

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workforces across the globe. And finally, in this introduction, If you hear

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anything that stirs you and you're interested
in joining the movement toward living with passion

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and working on purpose, you can
reach out to me via email at lease

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at at leastcortes dot com and check
into just reacing information about what we're up

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to here, joining a catsh fire
online inspiration, accountability or mastermind community,

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or being part of my freshly minted
purpose driven leadership programs for individuals or companies.

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You can also find me on Facebook, LinkedIn and also send me a

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tweet to at last Cortes and then
onto the show itself. Last week,

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if you missed the live show,
you can always catch it re via recorded

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podcast. We were on the aerosheron
Dematia. She's the founder of the AIM

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Project and is also a connection and
communication expert, human re engineer, and

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storyteller. She had just come back
from a trip to South Africa in service

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of her project, and we talked
about that trip, how the AIM Project

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was born and why it is critical
and addressing today's thornious problems, including how

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we see ourselves in relation to the
world and how they gets manifested in things

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like depression and suicide. Things like
that no small topics. There with us

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this week is Phil Sotok. He
is the founder of DPMC North America,

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a management consultancy specializing in mission driven
management and virtuous leadership. He also founded

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and helps manage a Venture Source Corporation, a global supplier of engineered products to

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the automotive industry with offices in the
US, China, Spain, and Mexico.

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Today, we'll be talking about why
purpose is such an important point of

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management in today's business world, and
the work Keenness Team are doing to help

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companies managed by mission and virtuous leadership. You joined us today from West Michigan.

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Phil, Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank you, Elise. It's

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a pleasure to be here. It's
so great. You know, I'm so

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enjoying this whole journey. And you
and I found each other on LinkedIn sometime

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back, right, so I think
we were both interested in the whole purpose

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space and you glimpse what I was
up to, I glimpse what you were

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up to, and I said,
we've got to get on Aaron talk about

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this. So thanks for saying yes, Well, let's be clear, I

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think I found you. Okay,
okay, got good stuff going on out

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there. Oh, I love it
well, And there I have to also

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say, seeking of going on out
there, I love your Midwestern accent.

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It's just fantastic. I didn't know
we had accents, but absolutely it's my

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favorite. Yeah. Yeah, I'm
from the Northwest. We don't have accents

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over there. Everybody else has one. So well, let's get into it,

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Phil, We've got a lot to
talk about in a short amount of

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time, and I want to just
really start. It's kind of perplexing.

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I find myself thinking about this quite
a bit. It seems to me that

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purpose is everywhere. So let's start
by just talking about why is purpose such

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a buzzword today? What's going on
in the world that calls forth its presence?

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It's everywhere, it certainly is,
and there is a lot of buzz.

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So much is being said about purpose
and that if we discover our why,

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you know, and put that into
action, both individually and perhaps with

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others, that might just be,
I don't know, a holy grail of

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sorts, right to unlocking potential and
to finding fulfillment and meaning in our lives.

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So it's all all very inspiring and
to a large extent of buzz I

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believe is justified because we now see
a confluence of science and evidence telling us

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this that purpose really does matter,
and that if organizations and people for that

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matter, grasp this and apply it, they can do great things. So

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there's no shortage really of thought leaders
out there, and there's more and more

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every day pointing us in this direction
and pointing us toward this idea that organizations

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with a sense of purpose beyond what
we were taught in B school, this

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idea of creating shareholder value, that
when you go beyond this, those are

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the ones that endure in the long
haul. So I think that's I think,

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in fact, even Michael Porter recently
went as far as to say,

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I think it was him that aiming
for a higher societal purpose through business could

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reinvent capitalism. Right now, that's
a big idea and one that could transform

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the world, or at least I
think how we interact within it. So

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I'd say that's worth saying attention to. I would too, what a great

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way to start, And I want
to try into a couple of things that

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you said, but let me make
sure and the presence a couple more things.

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First, beautiful opening, Phil,
and I just so appreciate how you've

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situated purpose and why it's such a
focal point today. And I love what

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you said about the confluence of science
and research and really you know, business

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imperatives and business financial information that really
demonstrate and illustrate the importance of it.

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So yeah, we're right there with
you. That's really where we're at today

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too. But go ahead, sorry, no, no, that's great.

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That's I want to get into that
next. And so let's really make sure

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that our listeners understand this. Whether
they're an individual contributor considering this thing called

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purpose, whether they're a leader trying
to develop their organizations, why should companies

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and their leaders care about purpose?
Well, first of all, the evidence

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is in right, I mean,
organizations with purpose have been proven to perform

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or outperform their peers. I think
if I think that Jim Collins study years

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ago was on the order of like
six to one that they outperformed their peers

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over the long haul. So we
know that there is a very high correlation

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between purpose and profitability in companies.
But let's think about this for a second.

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Let's unpack that. Because almost one
hundred percent of organizations today have like

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a mission or a purpose. Some
true north articulated and communicated that with this

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one one hundred percent adoption, we
should be knocking it out of the park

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as it relates to performance and great
places to work. But at least you

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know the number, roughly sixty five
sixty six percent of our workforce, according

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to research, remains ambivalent, uninterested, unmotivated. So why is this?

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Why are we not making progress in
captivating our teams? You know, if

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you look at the data, I
don't think. I don't think the data

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is suggesting that we need more companies
with compelling purpose statements. I think,

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I really think what the data is
telling us, if we read between the

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lines, is that we are actually
failing to make the all important connection between

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the purpose of our organizations and the
hearts and minds of those who make up

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our organization. That idea has been
validated. Harvard validated that, I think

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within the last couple of years with
a study they did that suggested simply articulating

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and communicating purpose to your teams does
very little, right, that's not going

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to get us where we need to
go. So there's more that's required.

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There's really quite a bit that's required
for transformative change in organizations. They did

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a study I think it was again
done by Harvard that talked about purpose clarity.

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I don't know if you've heard about
that idea, but it's just it's

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really just a measure of how deeply
purpose is internalized within the whole of an

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organization. And then we've built upon
that and found that this idea of purpose

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clarity, we like to refer to
it as unity. We call it unity,

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and in that sense we mean it's
a phenomenon that elevates the relationship between

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the individual and a collective need.
That's how we think about it. So

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the outcome of unity for us,
or a co creation between the organization and

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the purpose, is a much higher
It's a much higher thing. It goes

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beyond alignment. It's a much deeper
cut, I guess. So what I

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was going to say earlier is you
mentioned it to figure sixty five percent.

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I've seen it is even as high
as eighty five percent of people who are

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uninterested in work across the globe anyways, better better number here in the States,

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it seems. But anyway, what
I find, phil and what I'm

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up to, and I think you
are too, is I really wanted to

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do something to help those people that
are literally walking through life dead Monday through

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Friday. Right. And when I
go out and talk to people and I

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ask them what they're passionate about,
you know what, the number one response

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is, what's that? I don't
know? They say, I don't know.

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So what I was going to share
as quickly as I was out speaking

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to a group of women about a
week and a half ago, and it

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was about meaning, passion, purpose, inspiration, etc. And purpose driven

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leadership, and the idea was to
really help these women get present to the

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possibility of having a meaningful life and
work and purpose infused. And several of

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them, of course, got very
excited about the idea. They got aspired,

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and they got emotional about the possibilities. And So what I see,

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phil, our people are so hungry
from meaning and purpose and something of substance

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in their lives. They want that, and if an organization can help them

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get that, that's a home run. Yeah. I think you know,

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there's an integrity issue in there as
well. I think people are hungry for

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integrity too. Yeah, And they're
hungry. What I mean by that is

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they're hungry for integrity like in their
whole life, like the whole of their

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life, right, because in many
cases, we're not getting that in the

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workplace, we're not able to practice
integrity and we're not finding integrity, we're

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finding the opposite. So it's kind
of leaving us with this incompleteness of ourselves.

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But when we find purpose or what
we find in purpose and organizations that

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offer environments of purpose or purpose driven
structures or however you want to call it,

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it's an antidote really to this integrity
challenge that we have in our lives.

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Because if I'm somebody at home,
right, or you're somebody in the

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community, and that's different from who
you are at work or how you're being

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conditioned I guess to behave at work, then that leaves us with quite a

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dilemma, right, We have a
choice to make. Do I act with

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integrity or do I disconnect from this
place? And that's I think what we're

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seeing. We're seeing a lot of
people disconnecting, and I think there's an

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integrity challenge that's going on that we
need to solve. Phil That is one

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of the most I don't know but
crisp and also unique insights I've ever heard

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on this topic. And I really
appreciate that I think that is just golden.

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And of course one of the reasons
I had have you in the show.

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I knew that you had this wealth
of foundation to stand from the work

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that you've been doing would really help
give us some insights, and that was

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just golden. I'm going to make
I wrote that down, I'll put it

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in social media look out. It's
great. Well, so along those lines

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we're talking about, you said there's
an integrity issue for people in terms of

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their overall lives. I'm interested to
hear what you see as some of the

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biggest problems facing companies today. Yeah, well, set, I mean it's

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a bit in the same line of
thinking. I think for you know,

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sadly, for many organizations at least
those maybe I guess you could say,

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who are walking the fine line between
prevailing or dying a slow depth is there's

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a lack of trust, There's a
there's a failure in connecting you know,

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meaningful trusting relationships both internally and externally. So you know, it's resulting in

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deteriorating relationships between employees and employeers for
sure, but I think it's also in

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many cases impacting society at large.
So just think about the recent list you

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can probably won't name names, but
you can probably think of them off the

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top of your head. We've seen
a walkout recently. We've seen a founder

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ousting. We've seen a very well
known company with what i'd call is an

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identity crisis. We've seen companies spending
millions of dollars on campaigns like you know,

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quote unquote earning back our trust.
So I see these things and I

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just can't help but to think,
what a waste of creative energy right being

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pointed at things that are completely avoidable
if we were to prioritize the right things.

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So, Wow, you really here
illustrated us a wide swath of issues.

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Boy, you're right, that's that
really helps us presence what's going on

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for us out there in this big
world we live in. Very Chris again.

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Well, and then under that,
there's one other thing that I've been

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really really focused on lately, Phil, in terms of the workforce and humanity,

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and that's artificial intelligence and robotics.
And so I'm interested in your perspective

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and how you think those two will
impact how humans experience and participate in the

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workforce. That's a great question,
and it's close to home because you know,

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in my other work with automotive,
we hear there's so much going around

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about this idea, and there's so
much creative destruction really in manufacturing and at

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least my sector and automotive that's happening
right right before our eyes. But I

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think the full effect of this is
it's quite a few years out. It's

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kind of like the autonomous vehicle is
supposed to be right around the corner,

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and that continues to get pushed out. But I do know, I guess

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I think what they're saying is maybe
in the next twenty years or so.

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I've heard some numbers that fifty percent
of the work that people are currently doing

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will not exist. So I guess
in the next twenty years will be crucial

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how we train our youth really,
And in the meantime, there's growing fields

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like robotics and HMI, which is
human machine interface that will keep us busy

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for some time. And I guess
I say that a little bit tongue in

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cheek because while you and I both
know that the economy is not a zero

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sum game, so my thought on
this on ais it can only lead to

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more opportunity. And there were dooms
Day predictors and arguments at the turn of

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some you know, like the macroeconomic
eras when we moved from a grarian to

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industrial industrial the information that those were
for sure disruptive, but there was hardly

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casts and mass unemployment. I wouldn't
say so this creative destruction, like let's

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just take for example, because we
know it it's in our you know,

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it's in our lifespan, is between
the industrial and the information ages. Is

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that led to a whole new economy, like entirely new work that we had

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not seen coming. We didn't predict
ten, fifteen, twenty years prior to

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that. So I guess you can
see I'm on the positive end of this

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argument. I have faith in our
human potential at lease. I do too,

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And I'll quickly just comment on that
two pieces. I heard the Federal

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Reserve Board chair Robert Kaplan speak here
at a lunch and then I would do

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some time ago, and I asked
him a question based on his speech.

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I said, what are the the
forward thinking companies doing about bridging artificial intelligence

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robotics with the human workforce? And
he said, and again I don't want

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to take his comments out of context
here, so I don't want people to

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think I'm not slamming him. I'm
just passing on what he had to say.

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But he said, he said,
well, those companies are investing more

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in technology than they are in people, which I didn't necessarily like per se,

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But it doesn't I don't take a
doomsday either. The other sete of

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that, to your point that I
agree with is that from what I know

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of the work that I've been doing
investigating meaning and work phil is that people

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experience more meaning in their work when
they are calling from higher order abilities anyway,

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So my hope is and I want
to be part of the movement that

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helps people be able to draw from
a higher part of themselves to participate in

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the workforce and let machines and other
things do some of the other work that

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maybe they could have done previously,
but bring them to a higher level of

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contribution and therefore existence and interaction.
And I think it will be a more

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fulfilling place for them. Yes,
they will have to learn more, they

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will have to go back to school
and continue to unlock new skills and new

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talents, but I think it can
be an even more satisfying interaction and fulfilling

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than even it is today. I
think you're the word contribution is key in

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this, in this conversation, I
think that's really at the heart of it

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because our human and I'll put that
like in quotes, our human contribution is

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what's unique. And that coupled with
our creative capacity is unique. And so

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our ability to create new information and
channel it toward more meaningful output that's unique.

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So I don't let me, let
me think, let me just I'll

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use a ridiculous example to get the
point across. It takes our human creative

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capacity combined with our external circumstances to
recognize that if it's cold outside and we

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have a rock and two sticks,
we might just rub them together to create

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a spark that produces something warm,
right like that comes from within us.

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AI cannot produce that. That's a
meaningful output from a circumstance that's around us,

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and we figure out a way forward. So I think you know it's

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true that machines will soon process more
information than I think all humans combined.

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There's a chart I've seen that shows
that we're a couple of years away from

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that, from that inflection point,
but they'll lack our creative capacity. So

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my opinion, AI really only further
unlocks us as humans. It unlocks our

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ability to create, you know,
more value, substantial, more value for

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society, and machines can complement that
us. They can compliment us in this

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endeavor. I think that's gorgeous,
Phil, and I completely agree, beautifully

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said, let's grab our first break
here real quick. I'm your host,

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Alice Cortes later on the ear with
Phil Sotok, who is the founder of

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DPMC North America, a management consultancy
specially lizing in mission driven management and virtuous

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leadership. He joins you today from
West Michigan. We've been talking a bit

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about what's going on in the world
that makes purpose so important. After the

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break, we're going to talk about
what he's been doing to serve his clients

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to help bring that so say with
us. We'll be right back. Alis

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Cortes is a speaker and engagement and
development catalyst. She designs and delivers professional

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development, leadership and engagement workshops and
can bring her expertise to your organization.

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She will help ignite meaningful development within
your workforce that will increase employee engagement,

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performance and retention to learn more or
to invite Elise to speak to your organization.

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Please visit her at www dot Elisecortes
dot com. She would welcome the

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opportunity to help get your employees working
on purpose. This is working on Purpose

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with Elise Cortes. To reach our
program today, send it the email to

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a lease a l se at a
lease Coortes dot com. Now back to

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working on purpose if you're just joining
us. My guest is Phil Sotak.

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He was the founder of DPMC North
America and management consultancy specializing in mission driven

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management and virtuous leadership. He also
founded and helps manage Venture Source Corporation,

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a global supplier of engineer products to
the automotive industry with offices in the US,

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China, Spain, and Mexico.
I'm your host, Alise Cortes.

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So Phil, before we went for
break, I really just appreciated how you

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finish the concept or the conversation around
artificial intelligence and robotics. And I hope

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for our listeners that they can lean
forward and stand in place of hope and

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possibility then fear right on right on. Yeah, I agree, and I

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wanted to say it's a comparative advantage
thing we have to focus on you know,

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it's kind of cliche, it's us
for human versus machine, but we

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do truly have to focus on our
human comparative advantage, and that's something that's

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again that's unique to us. And
I think, you know, whether it's

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studying the humanities or practicing, you
know, the human virtues, I think

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those things can set us apart.
And I believe those are the things that

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we should be teaching our youth to
prepare for the next stage here here,

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and I have an interest in helping
to further shape the education space. So

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maybe who knows, phil You know, these stranger things have been known to

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happen, you and I could be
on the other end of this. Who

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knows? Next venture? You need
something else to do, don't you?

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Oh? Yeah, I do?
Okay, Well, I want to talk

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about what the work that you're doing
here, you know, it's it's this

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is a fascinating place to get to
contribute to and I've been so enjoying meeting

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people like you as my comrades.
So first, let's situate just how in

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the world you get yourself into this. I mean, you have a very

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successful business already in the automotive industry
called venture source how did you decide to

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enter the management consultant in the purpose
space. Yeah, it's I guess it's

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a bit of a jump from where
I started. I grew up in a

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family of engineers, and I started
my career as an engineer, but then

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I kind of drifted more towards,
you know, down the business road.

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And after a number of years in
different corporate settings, I my cell phone

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that I was searching. I was
searching for something more. And that's when

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I, at least from my you
know, my personal story, I recognized

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I had an entrepreneurial spirit in me. So I decided to act upon that

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and started a Venture Source. And
when we started Venture Source, we wrote

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a vision and it was, you
know, like a three page document and

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it had a little paragraph in there
and all it said was we're going to

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do something about teaching others. And
it was vague and so it wasn't really

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unpacked that well. But we knew
we wanted to help others in business someday

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down the road. We wanted to
help them be better, because that's why

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we were that's really why we started
Venture Sources. We wanted to create an

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environment for ourselves and for other people. Where they could find their best self.

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So we didn't start Venture Source on
a product idea, as you might

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think because we're an automotive and manufacturing. We didn't start it that way.

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We started around the idea of creating
a better place to work. And a

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few of us had some you know, I would call them bad experiences,

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but just experiences within corporate America that
were not fulfilling. We said, let's

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let's try to create something that's better, not just a fun place to work,

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but something where we can maximize our
talents and do something you know,

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great together that is, you know, and I appreciate that. And as

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you and I spoke on the phone
when we first met, I felt like

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you're my brother from some other planet
or some other time. I don't know,

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but we're cosmically connected somehow. But
it's very similar is how I ended

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up in the space as well.
I wanted to wanted to create the work

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and the life in which I wanted
to be part of, and then I

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would be proud to live and proud
to connect with others through so very very

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similar approach and built it on the
back of what I had been doing before

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around management consulting, but situated into
that particular space of how do we make

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this meaningful and purposeful. So now, but your particular, your particular approach,

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I really want to I want to
bring forth here. It's fascinating here

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that you talk about how your solutions
are aligned with the practice of management by

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missions and transcendent motivation. And I
want to talk about each one of those

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things to help our listeners understand them. So first, the practice of management

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by mission, What do you mean
by that? How do you work with

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that? Yeah, that's really our
that's a systematic approach. So and it's

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our systematic approach, your methodology.
You could call it to bringing we say

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bringing purpose to life within the organization, and we call it by that name

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specifically, you know, missions with
an A S, because we focus on

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personal missions as an expression of purpose. And so nowadays we I mean,

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like we said, most organizations,
if not all, have some some true

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north articulated already. So much of
our role is really in helping them.

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It's on how to side of the
equations, helping them to operationalize it at

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every level and within within every person
within the organization, which entails looking at

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everything in the business through a lens
of purpose. So at the highest levels,

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we look at the strategy of the
organization, the design of the organization,

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the leadership practices, because we want
to ensure that there exists a high

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level of continuity in every action that
is taken within the organization, that those

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actions are pointed towards serving the purpose. And so we really need to bring

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those three areas of the organization together
and we can unpack that further. But

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that's that's the gist of it.
Yeah, now there's four there's I guess

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to wrap it up, there's four
general categories we consider when we look at

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that to help organizations better align and
structure their businesses relative to purpose, and

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entails looking at the company's story,
which can be the vision, values,

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the principles, you know, the
business model. We want to get a

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strategic fit around that, and we
want to get alignment at the leadership level

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around that before we start to cascade
that identity in that story throughout the organization.

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We look at organizational coherence. So
we need to align that story and

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the purpose of the organization with the
systems that they're deploying. So I'll use

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an example of you know, just
compensation systems. If we're talking about trust

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and teamwork at the purpose and the
and the you know, in the in

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the storyline of the organization, or
who we are from a principle's perspective,

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But we have compensation plans that put
me against you or it's not you know,

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it's a zero sum game, then
that's really inconsistent in coherent with what

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we're professing. And the same thing
with the lad ship practices and behaviors.

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If we have a purpose and principles
and values that are professed, but we

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have leadership behaviors that are inconsistent to
that, then the whole of the organization

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feels this is really inauthentic and that
causes problems as well. So those are

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the three areas that we need to
look at and find integrity around those.

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And I think many organizations fail because
they focus on one of those, but

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they don't focus on those from a
holistic perspective and try to look at all

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three of those through the lens of
purpose. What I appreciate about that as

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a systems thinker is to me,
that's all about systems, the interactivity,

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the close interconnection of how everything impacts
something else, And I really appreciate that

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holistic approach. Yeah, it's connecting
the dots. And again, like we

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said, there's everybody seems to have
a purpose statement, but they're not connecting

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the dots. They're failing to connect
the dots with the people within their organizations,

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with how they've structured the organizations,
with the environments that they're creating within

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the organizations, and how they're behaving. So it's really a whole, a

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full picture that you need to look
at if we want to get it right.

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H for sure. Well, and
then there's this thing that transcendent motivation

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that you that you that you practice
talk about that. This is arguably the

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most important aspect of our work because
our aim here is to help the organization

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see the person's unique contribution relative to
the job they're being asked to perform.

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And it's really I like to think
of it as a mindset shift that we

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seek because with this we can then
start to help the person understand that meaning

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ultimately comes from within, it's not
something that's dictated to us from another.

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We bring meaning to our work and
I think that's if there's anything that people

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take away from that, that's a
key point because I think too many people

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are thinking or going about it saying
I need to find a job that gives

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me meaning, right, I need
to find a place that gives me meaning,

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when they really should be turning that
around and saying, how am I

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uniquely bringing something to this place?
And then that's the giving that then,

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you know, begets receiving, and
the receiving that you get out of that

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is meaning. So it's really a
correct understanding of meaning. It's critical or

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we risk spending our lives chasing a
fantasy, you know, and in the

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process we believe others far onhappiness.
So that's much of the work that we

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do at DPMC focuses on building on
this foundation, grounding people in their purpose

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while helping them to express their unique
contribution and impact to higher purpose or shared

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purpose. Whatever I mean that shared
purpose can simply be that my contribution to

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my team, you know, and
my team's purpose to the higher purpose.

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What I so like about what you're
saying, and tell me if I've got

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this wrong, So don't let me
put words in your mouth. But what

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I'm hearing from what you're saying,
Phil, is that one you're helping to

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develop organizations to be able to work
through management by by missions and then of

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course utilizing and infusing this transient motivation
piece into it. Thereby, what you

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do is you are developing the organization
change in the way that it really does

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its business and at the same time
empowering the individual to step into his own

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power of creating that meaning and creating
that purpose for themselves. Is that it's

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fair. It's absolutely fair. And
I like to think about it actually as

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co creation. Yeah, creating with
the with the environment around us, with

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our organization, with the people around
us. And that's that connection and that

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co creation between myself as an individual
and the people around me. That's what's

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00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:48.200
trans that starts to move us along
the transcendent or along the motivation spectrum from

408
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:53.519
extrinsic motivators toward transcendent because you I
mean, you know, when you do

409
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:57.359
something for a greater good or for
a common good, or when you do

410
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:03.000
it in conjunction with others, you
move beyond yourself. You start to see

411
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.920
others, and so you start to
transcend beyond the things that we are conditioned

412
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.920
or we're told that we typically should
seek, like money, or accolades or

413
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:14.559
even happiness. Right, we're told
that, you know, to find our

414
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.160
happiness or go seek happiness. But
there's really I think you and I know

415
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.680
from at least from talking to you, that there's true meaning to be found

416
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:27.880
in serving others for the sake of
serving others. Just that yes, yes,

417
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:30.839
and I think you know I talked
about this as well. Is that

418
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.039
there is the idea of instead of
focusing on happiness, which might be a

419
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.720
byproduct, that we're focused on what's
meaningful and what's fulfilling, and then as

420
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.599
a result we experience happiness. And
so sometimes to your point, chasing the

421
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:48.240
wrong thing, trying to chase being
happy, Well, what's that? Isn't

422
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.319
that transitory? But when we help
other people, especially for extended period of

423
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.119
time, that's meaningful and fulfilling.
Yeah, it is, it is,

424
00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.960
And there's an outward mindset there that
I think we have to we have to

425
00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:05.839
train ourselves to think, you know, it's a service you know we've whether

426
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:09.839
it's you know, servant leadership.
I think addresses that concept, that idea

427
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:15.200
of you know, the service to
other is really what's what's rewarding and meaningful

428
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.720
and that's but that's something we have
to condition ourselves to think, because I

429
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:23.200
think we're conditioned to not think that
way. We're very much conditioned to think

430
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:30.160
about kind of getting our own taking
care of ourselves. And that's it's it's

431
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:32.400
just something we need to break.
It's a habit we need to break.

432
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:37.559
No question about that, no question
I want to if I own the break

433
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:39.480
here. I'm going to look up
a book that I'm reading that the guy

434
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:44.039
talks about that as well. But
before we go into our next break here,

435
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:45.839
I want to grab one last thing
relative to this conversation here, and

436
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:51.519
that is it strikes me that you
have had the chance to be able to

437
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:57.119
see organizations that are exceptionally well run
in organizations that aren't so. In your

438
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.720
work as you've gone through, whether
it's working with companies or observing them,

439
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:06.400
how would you characterize the most effective
leadership? What does it look like that?

440
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:13.880
Yeah, well that's probably a lifelong
endeavor to try to articulate that.

441
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.359
But I mean, in at least
up till this point, right in my

442
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:21.359
experience in working with all sorts of
leaders as you as you mentioned, I

443
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:27.640
can boil it down to two qualities
that characterize or I would say characterize effective

444
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:31.079
leadership. Like when you say effective, I think of qualities that are required

445
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:35.680
to set the stage for getting the
right thing down, the right things done.

446
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:43.200
So one quality for this is humility, but a specific form of humility,

447
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:45.519
right, let's get that clear.
It's the sense of knowing ourselves for

448
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:50.480
sure, but it's also knowing ourselves
relative to others so we can determine how

449
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:52.680
best to serve them, which is
a little bit of the kind of the

450
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.599
topic we talked about before. And
this goes hand in hand with another quality

451
00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:01.240
that I've seen in effective leaders,
and that is their ability to see greatness

452
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:06.559
not only in their self, which, as silly as that sounds, it's

453
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:09.760
not always that easy to see greatness
in ourselves, right, there's something that

454
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:15.119
keeps us from doing us doing that, So their ability to see greatness in

455
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:21.239
their self but also in other people
as well, and then from there they

456
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:24.719
try to bring that greatness out of
other people. So those two things together,

457
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:30.079
and they have to go together,
because if we have humility without this

458
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:34.039
seeking of greatness, then we have
don't know, maybe we have a hermit

459
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:38.440
or something like that. And if
we have the seeking of greatness without without

460
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:43.679
humility, well we have plenty of
als of that probably, yeah, because

461
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:45.719
that then starts the border on egomania
and some of those things. So they

462
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.000
have to go together, and when
they go together, the outcomes are resolved.

463
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:55.599
Their courage, their justice, practical
wisdom, self mastery. These are

464
00:34:55.639 --> 00:35:00.440
the true leadership qualities. I would
say that was against so oh fresh,

465
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:02.239
Phil, thank you for that.
For everybody. To take us into our

466
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:06.159
last break, I'm your host Aalise
Cortes. We've been on the air with

467
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:10.079
Phil Sotok, who is the founder
of DPMC North America and management consultancy specializing

468
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:15.280
in mission driven management and virtuous leadership. He joined you today from West Michigan.

469
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:16.519
After the break, we're going to
talk a little bit about how some

470
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.119
of the work that he's been doing
get supplied and some of the results that

471
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.719
he's seen. Stay with us,
we'll be right back. Alis Cortes is

472
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:29.000
a speaker and engagement and development catalyst. She designs and delivers professional development,

473
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:34.239
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring
her expertise to your organization. She will

474
00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:38.840
help ignite meaningful development within your workforce
that will increase employee engagement, performance and

475
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:43.920
retention. To learn more or to
invite Elise to speak to your organization,

476
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:50.000
please visit her at www dot Elisecortes
dot com. She would welcome the opportunity

477
00:35:50.039 --> 00:36:00.000
to help get your employees working on
purpose. This is working on Purpose with

478
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:05.679
Elise Cortes. To reach our program
today, send an email to a lease

479
00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:14.360
Alise at elisecortes dot com. Now
back to working on purpose if you're just

480
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.239
tuning in. My guest is Phil
Sotak. He is the founder of dp

481
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:22.199
DPMC North America and management consultancy specializing
in mission driven management and virtuous leadership.

482
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:27.920
He also founded and helps manage Venture
Source Corporation, a global supplier of engineer

483
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.559
products to the automotive industry with offices
in the US, China, Spain,

484
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:35.920
and Mexico. I'm your host,
Elise Cortes, so really quick to close

485
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:38.280
the loop before we go on to
application here. I mentioned a book that

486
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:42.559
I had I have been reading,
and part of what made me think about

487
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.559
it, Phil, was when you
said something about the importance of people focusing

488
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:50.079
not just on themselves but also serving
and helping others. The book that I'm

489
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:54.760
thinking of is called Creativity, Inc. It's with the yeah that subtitle is

490
00:36:54.840 --> 00:37:00.760
overcoming the unseen forces that stand in
the way of true inspiration by Katmoll,

491
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:06.159
who is the president of Pixar Animation
and Disney Disney Animation. He's just got

492
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:08.400
a lot in there about really I
think it sounds like, you know,

493
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:13.079
the book. But what I like
so much about what his message is in

494
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:15.960
there is that he really is standing
in a place of how to help other

495
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:20.519
people see their greatness, how to
remove any barriers in the workplace that get

496
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:23.480
in the way of creativity or anything
that might produce fear, just being visial

497
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:28.880
about that and you know, really
looking from the place of it's not all

498
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.360
about me. He talks about one
point when he was interviewing for one position

499
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:36.519
somewhere forget where, and they ask
him, you know, who else do

500
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:37.800
you think we should be talking to? And he gave him a whole list

501
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:43.119
of names, and he said that
he got the job. And afterwards he

502
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.199
said, part of the reason that
they gave him the job is he said

503
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:49.199
he was the only one they interviewed
that gave them other names of prospects.

504
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:54.360
Everybody else obviously felt like that would
be a game ending approach for them,

505
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:58.119
but he didn't see it that way. There was he looked at it as

506
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.320
that it's kind of what you said
earlier in the conversation about it. The

507
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.599
playing field is large. There's lots
of work to do out there, so

508
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:10.760
we don't need to diminish others to
expand or get ourselves going the direction that

509
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.440
we want to. So anyway and
zero some I'm thinking, here you go.

510
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:20.480
He's cross referenced in the book Culture
Code, which is another book that

511
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:23.559
you would probably like or love if
you haven't read it yet. Thank you.

512
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:29.400
I write that down. I always
have an ongoing list of books coming

513
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:34.320
to my door, so they're in
my queue. Okay, well let's finish

514
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.599
this a little bit of said.
We don't have much time left on the

515
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:39.079
show here, and I want to
make sure our listeners get some example of

516
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:45.719
really how your work helps organization.
What's the bottom line, what's the contribution

517
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:49.400
here? So can you share with
us an example or a case study of

518
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.599
a company that you work with that
illustrates the impact of your work and how

519
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:54.639
the company win. It'd be great
if you had like maybe like a before

520
00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:58.719
or after and you don't need to
give away the company name if that would

521
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:01.519
not be beneficial to So, we
just want to understand how you work and

522
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:06.000
what it results. Yeah, there
is an example I can give it.

523
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:12.440
I like to use it because their
transformation was pretty impressive. So it's a

524
00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:16.760
good example. But it really allowed
us also to fulfill our purpose in a

525
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:22.239
meaningful way, to stand alongside them
and help them to do this. So

526
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.480
we had a CEO approach us a
number of years ago. He was struggling

527
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:30.360
stagnant growth, the profitability, and
his team was flat and he could not

528
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:37.760
figure out how to motivate them toward
higher performance or anything really, so the

529
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:43.400
outcome was high turnover. He had
a lot of uninspiring and uninspired leadership going

530
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.559
on, and so we started with
him. We started where we typically start,

531
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:52.920
which is we do an assessment around
unity within the organization. We found,

532
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:57.199
as you would guess, some pretty
low levels of understanding and commitment around

533
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.960
the company, vision, the mission, the principles, all those ownding statements.

534
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:05.960
There was really no understanding at all
around it. It was somewhat meaningful

535
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:10.440
or meaningless rather to the people.
So over the course of a number of

536
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:15.800
months and our engagement, as we
deployed the model, we connected the dots,

537
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:19.480
we provided them tools, We helped
the leaders, you know, kind

538
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.320
of helped themselves. We saw that
we saw at increase, of course,

539
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.440
but to one of the highest levels
we've seen today to like it's like the

540
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:30.800
ninetieth percentile, and so that's great. But you walk through the organization now

541
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:35.679
in the atmosphere has completely changed.
It's absolutely night and day of high energy,

542
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:40.559
vibrant people, positive interactions. They're
self driven, and so it's quite

543
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:46.000
a change from the days of you
know, flat teams and uninspired leaders,

544
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:52.079
and the numbers in the organization reflected
as well. So in the last five

545
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:57.239
years to engage with this company five
years ago, in the last five years,

546
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.360
they've tripled their business. They've increase
use their corporate earnings by over four

547
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:05.800
hundred percent. I think that a
dip last year, but they're still on

548
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:10.159
a very steep upcurve. And so
this success story is great because they attribute

549
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:16.519
it to finding purpose within their organization
and of course implementing the Management by Mission's

550
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:22.199
model. But really it's around the
idea of finding purpose and that this can

551
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:28.760
be profitable in all senses of the
word, right, not just in the

552
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.360
bottom line, but certainly it does
impact the bottom line. So that was

553
00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:35.800
a great success story and it was
great for us to participate in that and

554
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:38.039
isn't it wonderful and amazing to get
to do that kind of work and help

555
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:43.719
an organization like that that is phenomenal
films. Yeah, it's yeah, that's

556
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:47.800
meaning. That's you know, it's
work getting up for you. I think

557
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:52.719
I'll get out of bed for that. Well, you already mentioned a few

558
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:55.360
of these symptoms here, but it's
just helpful for people. Might go,

559
00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:58.400
you've scratch with her. Why would
I want to work with Phil? I

560
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:01.000
mean, why do I need that
guy for? So? What are some

561
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:05.760
of the symptoms, the symptomatic problems
you might say that companies would experience it

562
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:07.880
would indicate to you that they could
benefit from working with you. You mentioned

563
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:15.079
law performance, uninspired workforce. What
else would indicate that there may be an

564
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:21.599
opportunity there? Well, there's I
mean, there's silos, there's team dysfunction,

565
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:27.800
there's disengagement, lack, poor communication, some of those things. But

566
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:30.960
you know, I can give people
and I typically, you know, we

567
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:36.079
give a list of things that they
might be feeling, but I like to

568
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:39.880
frame it under an overarching problem indicator, kind of a leading indicator, and

569
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:44.840
one that we've learned from our experience
with working with companies large and small,

570
00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:50.159
regardless of the sector services that they
provide, and that is what is the

571
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:54.559
health of your interpersonal relationships within the
organization. Because when we know this,

572
00:42:55.280 --> 00:43:00.840
then we can appropriately address the various
symptomatic problems that we might be facing,

573
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:06.199
whether they stem from paternalistic cultures,
from bureaucracy, from aggressive cultures, and

574
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.920
those lead to things such as silos
or team dysfunction for communication, apathy,

575
00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:15.039
and even fear in some cases.
So what we've found is that in high

576
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:19.440
purpose, high performing organizations, those
that we've worked with, they've all exhibited

577
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:24.119
this one common denominator that's that high
quality relationship and it's both internal and external.

578
00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:30.679
It's typically characterized by cultures of compassion, vulnerability, safety, belonging,

579
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:37.199
servant leadership, certainly low levels of
self interest within the team and team members.

580
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:42.239
So what does that tell us?
That tells us we need to solve

581
00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:46.440
first and foremost for those variables that
elevate the level of interpersonal relationship within our

582
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:50.239
company, whatever those are, and
you know them. You know, the

583
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:52.159
owner of a company or the leader
of a company, they know it.

584
00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:57.920
Whether your company falls in you know, if it's a go go startup or

585
00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:02.400
if it's a mature or your old
company. You have these unique challenges,

586
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:08.239
but they're all grounded in one key
dynamic. And so the question is how

587
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:14.519
are your interpersonal relationships? Ask that
question and test engage for that. Wow,

588
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:16.199
that is so Chris, and you
know, so the great thing what

589
00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:22.480
I appreciate about the work who you
are coming from an engineering background and family

590
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:25.280
and such, and perhaps bringing that
background into the work that you do in

591
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:30.039
purpose. It's just I really appreciate
that combination. Philis Yes, I was

592
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:34.920
the ugly duckling in the family.
I understand I was the black sheep too

593
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:39.000
in many ways. Well, just
a couple things before we dash. I

594
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:43.360
know that it's probably fairly obvious,
but what do you want our listeners to

595
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:45.960
get this? What is it about
this work that you do that that so

596
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:51.000
grabs you, so compels you.
Why is it meaningful for you? You

597
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:55.679
know? I believe that this idea
of purpose at work will make our lives

598
00:44:55.840 --> 00:45:00.400
as individuals whole. And it's kind
of that topic that we talk about a

599
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:04.239
little bit before. If we get
purpose right or purpose at work right,

600
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:08.199
it could be the foundation from which
we change everything. Because right now,

601
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:13.480
you think about it, we're very
piecemeal in our approach. We have disengaged

602
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:16.239
workers, so we throw wellness programs
at them, where we throw random leadership

603
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:22.199
semin are at them, but nothing
really has context. And we have companies.

604
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:29.280
I read something the other day about
a company that was implementing like meditation

605
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.800
and health promotion policies. But you
read about this company and year after year

606
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:36.800
they're engaging in downsizing, forcing early
retirements, in layouts. So it's two

607
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.679
completely different ends of the spectrum.
How do you think their workforce perceives that?

608
00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:46.519
So those things are really like front
and center to me. So I

609
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:51.079
believe that when we frame the business
through the lens of purpose, then everything

610
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:55.039
we do has the opportunity to have
context and strategic fit. We do things

611
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:58.800
for a reason, it makes sense, and this takes us closer to the

612
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:05.519
desired endgame. That was just yummy, Phil, I'm five. It's around

613
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:08.079
the verge of redefining work and I
know you believe that too. I think

614
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:12.519
I think it will. It will
serve to complete who we are, it

615
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:16.320
will serve to give us life to
who we are, and it'll help us

616
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:20.440
to reach our full potential. I
truly believe that I do too, And

617
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:23.000
oddly enough, back to our earlier
conversation. I do think that artificial intelligence

618
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:25.679
and robotics will help get us there. It'll be part of the catalyst that

619
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:29.480
gets us kind of boots us up
there, if you will. Yeah,

620
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:34.079
and I do believe, and that
is sure. Yeah, yeah, you

621
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:37.559
and I are part of a movement
to help reshape the workforce. Absolutely,

622
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:44.280
and in so doing the life experience, the existential experience of people. It's

623
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:47.159
amazing work to get to do.
Really. So have you read BJ Fogg's

624
00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:52.599
work on behavioral behavioral models and props? No, but I'm writing it down,

625
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:59.119
thank you. Really interesting. It's
like I look at purpose or yeah,

626
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:05.079
I guess I look at within organizations. He talks about getting prompts right

627
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:07.159
and the prompts we have to have
the right prompt to lead us. We

628
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:09.679
have to have the skill, but
we have to have the right prompt to

629
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:15.920
lead us to the desired behavior.
And I think of that as getting the

630
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:22.639
environment right around us is the prompt
to lead us to purposeful behaviors within organizations.

631
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:28.079
And so that's I really focus on
the environment, the structure, and

632
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:31.360
getting all of that right so that
people can flourish. That is gorgeous,

633
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:35.519
and on that note, we will
finish and close because we're out of time

634
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:37.400
and I want to make sure and
I get people to your website. So

635
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.800
Phil Sotak, thank you so much
for joining Working on Purpose. You have

636
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:45.360
been a tremendous contribution. Thank you. Thanks Elise for having me. You

637
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:47.920
want to learn more about Phil so
talk and the work that he is doing,

638
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:53.880
vis visit him and his team at
DPMC dot us dot com DPMC dot

639
00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:59.880
us and join us next week when
we talk with Elizabeth Fournier of Cornerstone Funeral

640
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:02.559
about the unique way she has of
seeing people complete in their lives and what

641
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:07.159
that finality does to garner and govern
a sense of purpose in our lives.

642
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:09.280
So I brought her on on Purpose
because I want her to be able to

643
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:13.920
help us see what it looks like
from the end of life. That's what

644
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:16.039
helps fuel our purpose. So see
you then remember that work is at least

645
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:22.599
one third of our life. So
let's work on Purpose. We hope you've

646
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:27.559
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune in to Working on Purpose featuring

647
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:32.119
your host Alis Cortes, each week
on the Voice America Empowerment Channel. This

648
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:36.159
week, find your life's purpose at
work,