Catalyzing Purpose-Driven Leadership and Culture

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five, it's working

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on purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Thanks for tuning

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in again this week. I'm your
host, Elise Cortes, joining you from

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Dallas, Texas, which is home
base for me. This program is all

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about helping people more meaningfully and productively
connect with their work and equipping leaders to

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cultivate meaningful and purpose in their work
as well. I bring on guests who

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have a particular perspective or experience that
I think expands this conversation. As a

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management consultant social scientist, I draw
on the meeting work research I've been doing

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over the last fifteen years, so
as for my own consulting speaker and developing

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workforce experience across the globe. I'll
get to my program in just a moment,

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but let me say something about an
important date coming up Friday and Saturday,

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October nineteenth and twenty twenty eighteen.
That's the date we're hosting the first

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Working on Purpose Conference here in Dallas, Texas. So if you want to

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be involved as a speaker, participant, ory sponsor, contact me at a

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lease at a leascoretest dot com.
We'll be bringing together a world class group

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of speakers to enlighten business and human
resource leaders on creating purpose driven culture and

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leadership within their companies and to help
individuals enlive into their own purpose. I'm

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so excited I can hardly stand it. Obviously. Last week, if you

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missed the show live, you can
always catch up a recorded podcast. We

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were on there with Debbie Meriaac.
She's the president of the Sales Company,

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a Texas based firm that is helping
hundreds of entrepreneurs, individuals, and corporations

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better assess, understand, and engage
in practical purposeful selling. We had a

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great conversation about some of the fears
that people tend to encounter and trying to

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sell in ways we can get some
help from others in our selling process.

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It was a great conversation with us. This week is Zach mccurio. He's

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one of the leading voices on the
role of purpose and meaning in organizations,

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work, and life. As a
consultant, speaker, and researcher, he

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has helped leaders in nearly every industry
around the world understand the role of purpose

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and meaning and designing thriving organizations.
Zach is the author of The Invisible Leader,

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Transform your life, work, and
organization with the power of authentic Purpose.

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He is also a PhD candidate,
researcher and adjuct faculty at Colorado State

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University, where he teaches courses on
organizational learning, performance, and change.

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In this conversation today, we'll be
talking about the role of meaning and purpose

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in today's world, purposeful leadership,
and how organizations can build a culture of

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purpose. Zach joins us today from
Fort Collins, Colorado. Zach, Welcome

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to Working on Purpose. Hey oies, thanks for having me. I'm so

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excited that a show called Working on
Purpose exists in this world. You and

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me alike. I'm happy. And
by the way, just as we start

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here, let me give you a
quick little fun job. You know that

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you have public embarrassed me. Right, No, here's how you did it.

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I was reading your book on the
plane going on vacation to Australia and

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New Zealand, and I was like
so exuberantly agreeing with your points that people

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would look up around, going what
are you reading? What are you into?

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So thank you for embarrassing me publicly, Zach in the best possible way.

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Yeah. I mean, when you
speak the language of purpose, you

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find you a tribe of people.
That's what I've found, so I'm not

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surprised I do that as well.
Okay, good and by the way,

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I totally forgive you. Thanks.
Thanks, yeah, yeah, okay.

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Well, so for this first segment, I want to talk about the role

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of meeting and purpose in today's world, but I want to start with talking

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about you. I mean, it's
it's really phenomenal to me, Zach,

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that you have dedicated your life to
empowering purposeful people and building purposeful organizations.

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Of course I've got a similar kind
of an aim, but yours is really

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laser focus. You've written this fantastic
book, You're working on a PhD program

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in organizational learning, performance and change. This is just an incredible amount of

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focus on purpose. So I want
to know where did this realization that purpose

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can transform peopleizations come from for you? Well, for me, I guess

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it came from a source of pain
in not experiencing purpose and meaning. I

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think that's where a lot of us
YEA in this work start off. But

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I was a journalism major in college. I studied journalism, so I was

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taught to listen and to observe.
And in my first job out of college,

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I was in a sales job that
was really completely results obsessed, focused

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on making money, and that's sort
of how I got into that job.

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I was focused on the results,
like most of us are get this major,

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to get this job, then I'll
be happy, fulfilled, successful.

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It's this sort of if then argument
that characterizes a lot of our society.

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And what I found in that job
through listening was really distressing. It was

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just really distressed that people on Monday
talked about the weekend, like on Mondays

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they would come in and say,
oh, is it the weekend yet?

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I mean, that was the collective
narrative, right, And when you think

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about how many people live for two
sevenths of their lives the weekend, it

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really is astounding, and it astounded
me in that first job out of college.

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But where I saw a glimmer of
the other way. This could be

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if people really connected and aligned to
why they did what they did beyond what

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they got for it. It was
powerful and it was through a chance encounter

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and I wrote about it in the
book. With a cab driver who asked

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me how I was doing, and
I mumbled something about being excited for the

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weekend, and then I asked him
how he was, and he just lit

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up. I mean, I can't
describe it over the air right now,

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but you know those people that just
have an aura about them, He lit

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up in that way, exmiling,
and he said, I said, how

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are you doing? He said,
great, fantastic, He goes, I

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get to talk to people every half
hour. You can't beat that. And

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he was so excited about that.
And I realized he didn't tell me he

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was excited because he drove cabs.
He really told me he was excited because

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he got to talk to people.
It just happened he drove cabs. And

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that's when I realized. I was
like, we could be like that.

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We could design systems where people in
all sorts of jobs understand the bigger purpose

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of their job and come alive for
it. And ever since, I've been

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on this track. So it started
from pain and from listening, and I

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didn't like what I heard, and
now I've been really trying to change it

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and capture the spirit of that cab
driver that really changed my life. I

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really appreciate one how you distinguish those
two ends of the spectrum, one the

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dismal part that I think a lot
of people who are listening to the show

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can appreciate and probably find some resonance
with, and too, distinguishing the other

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side of what it looks like when
people actually do find that meeting in purpose

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and how much better life really is. That's what, Yeah, we're both

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up to, right, That's what
we're for. And I often say that,

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you know, it's it's people.
The most extraordinary people I meet really

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are people who do ordinary things with
an extraordinary perspective. That's that's rooted in

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a bigger purpose. I love that. I read that in your book too.

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It's just beautiful and speaking of that, I do really want to distinguish

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this, really break this down for
our listeners, because everybody hears these kinds

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of words meaning purpose, mission and
things like that. But you distinguish purpose

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from mission. You have a very
specific way of defining purpose in your book.

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Will you say that we share it
with our listeners. Yes, this

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is very common, And some people
say to me, Zach, well it's

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semantics. You know, it doesn't
really matter. But there's a key difference.

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Purpose is your genuine reason for existence
that's useful for others. And if

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purpose is defined as our reason for
existence, when you think about whatever we

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do, there really wouldn't be a
reason at all if we were just alone.

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The things that we do exist in
some way to contribute to other human

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beings. So that's purpose, the
reason for which something exists, the reason

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for existence. A mission is how
you go about delivering that purpose to the

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world. How are you going to
deliver on that reason for existence and prove

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it every day? And then I'll
add something else, not to confuse people,

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but to add a vision to that. And a vision is what the

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world will be like when you're done, If you were done fulfilling your purpose,

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what would the world be like?
What would people be like as a

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result of you delivering on your purpose
through your mission? So purpose is why

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you exist. Mission is how you
deliver that reason for existence. And vision

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I conceptualize is what the world will
be like when you're done. Gorgeous,

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very crisp, and I thought it
was so important to start with that too,

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So listeners really can can tune into
what you're up to, what you're

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trying to accomplish as well. Yeah, okay, so now the next really

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important question is, you know,
why do you think there's such a need

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for purpose in today's world. We're
hearing a lot about it. It seems

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like these days, why where's the
need coming from? It's interesting, and

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I think purpose isn't a isn't a
trend really. I mean, as you

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know, it's been around since human
beings were around. I sometimes listen to

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my toddler just constantly asking me why, and I'm reminded that as soon as

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we learn language, we're wired to
ask that why question. We're wired to

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seek meaning and purpose in life.
And it's been well documented that almost as

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the beginning of time, we're wired
to identify contribution and how we contribute.

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I think, as you might know, the industrial revolution and the real the

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focus on efficiency and produce produce has
really depressed that seeking system, that seeking

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of why that we're all naturally wired
for. And I think that what's happened

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is a next generation of leadership that's
sort of maturing out of the Industrial Revolution

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and looking more at how do we
solve sort of some of these complex world

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problems that have arisen through our growing
population and a lot of the issues that

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you address here on the show,
that we need to be more other and

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bigger focused than just focusing on results. And I think that that's one reason

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why systemically you've seen that sort of
yearning for purpose being unlocked, because the

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systems have been loosened up a little
bit since the Industrial Revolution. And then

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I think, you know, quite
simply, you know again, I was

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I was dropping my son off at
daycare yesterday and some and said, gosh,

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just at the weekend, yet there
is something and people were laughing,

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and it was like some sort of
conversation starter. It's just the everyday narrative.

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And again, I keep going back
to that question of what are we

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living for in terms of our work
and our lives. And so I think

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that there's a pervasive need for meeting
in purpose and organizations, which is accented

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by results like the Engagement reports that
find just thirteen percent of the world reports

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enthusiasm and pride in their work,
just twenty seven percent of managers demonstrate engagement,

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active engagement in their work. And
so I think all of this comes

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together right now to this really yearning
and craving for meaning and purpose, almost

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bringing us back to who we truly
are as human beings. That was gorgeous,

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Zach, and I'll just quickly echo, I mean, like you,

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I stand for helping that eighty seven
percent, eighty five percent that really you

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know, are not enjoying themselves at
work and don't see the value of it.

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And that when I hear people say
that, you know, is it

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the weekend yet on Monday morning,
it just makes me cringe and I think

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about, wow, you know,
we're literally waiting, We're walking through Monday

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through Friday. What a waste of
precious life. That is, yes,

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well put. And when I read
that initial Gallup report I think it was

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in twenty eleven, for the first
time, I thought to myself, these

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people go home, they have friends, they have families, they have ambitions,

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goals. There our society, our
economy, and if in forty percent

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of their lives they don't feel engaged, what does that do to us as

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a society. So I actually describe
the need for purpose and meeting and engagement

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in work as the public health concern
of the next generation. Much agree with

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that. In fact, I do
talk about that because you know, if

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we really are the walking dead while
we're at work, it does cascade to

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the rest of our lives absolutely well. Speaking of that, I know you

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get this too, And I talk
to people all the time who pine to

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find their own purpose. They're desperately
in searched to try to figure out,

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you know what, how do I
discover this? And you've got two whole

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chapters in your book dedicated to helping
people awaken to their purpose. I think

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it would be really splendid if you
can share some points from those chapters about

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how people can start to live a
more purpose driven life. How can they

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start to awaken to their purpose.
I think one of the first things is

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to stop trying to find your purpose
like it's somewhere out there. Sometimes this

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is what happens. We try to
find purpose like we lost a set of

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car keys. But the reality is, I don't think you can go find

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your purpose precisely because of the fact
that you never really lose it. I

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mean, you have a reason for
being by default wherever you are, whatever

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you're doing today, and sometimes we
put this off into this future like it's

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this magical thing that we'll find.
So for people who are looking to discover

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purpose, I often make the pivot
from finding your purpose to the importance of

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being purposeful. And starting to be
purposeful and think purposefully about what you're already

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doing can oftentimes invite purpose to find
you because you learn more about yourself,

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how you contribute, how you matter, what impact you make. So I

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think some ideas to get people to
start thinking about being more purposeful is first

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to really start thinking about how what
they already do today is impacting another human

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being. I hear this, I
teach college undergraduates, and I hear this

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in the hallways all the time.
Do you know what you're doing with your

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life yet? Or what should I
do with my life? And really that's

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one of the most psychologically demotivating questions
we can ask each other and ourselves.

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What we know is that when we
ask what should my life do for other

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people? Or what can my life
do for other people? Or what is

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my life doing for other people?
We actually start feeling better about our current

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situation, no matter what it is. And so starting each day by just

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asking what is my doing today and
how is what I'm going to do going

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to affect somebody else's life. That's
a really powerful way to start thinking about

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how you contribute. I think the
other way is to really spend some time

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reflecting. So being purposeful is a
set of new habits, and like any

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habits, it takes repetition. So
one simple exercise you could do is to

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keep a journal and every day write
down the things you love to do that

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day, no matter what they are, the things you were really good at,

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the skills you had that you exhibited
that day, and then finally,

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how you made people's lives better,
how you, as my ninety five year

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old grandfather said, how did you
improve the moment that day? And if

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you do that for seven days,
you'll have a list of three lists a

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day. You'll have twenty one data
points to really dig into what your contribution

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is and then what are those resources
in terms of your passion and talents to

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help you bring that contribution to life. So stop trying to find your purpose,

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start being more purposeful for looking at
how you already make an impact,

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and then add some reflection into your
life, really targeted intentional reflection to help

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you uncover purpose and then all I
often say, purpose usually finds us okay.

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So that was just stunningly gorgeous and
very crisp. I especially appreciate,

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Zach, that you really emphasize the
notion of how we're serving other people to

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help us get to that place of
purpose. I think that is a nuance

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that really makes a difference for people. It does, and scientifically, it

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makes us better as human beings when
we contribute to others. One of the

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most primitive parts of our brain is
the brain that controls for altruism, and

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so we are wired to contribute,
and our brain gives us rewards when we

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do so, and so we actually
feel better and do better. And on

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that note of altruism and serving others, let's take a quick break here.

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I'm your host, Elise Cortes.
We've run the air with Zach maccurio.

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He is one of the leading experts
in the role of purpose and meeting and

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organizations, work and life. Zach
is the author of The Invisible Leader,

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Transform your life, work and organization
with the Power of Authentic Purpose. Zach

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serves as a researcher and adjunct faculty
at Colorado State University in Fort Collins,

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Colorado, where he teaches courses on
purposeful leadership and organizational development as he completes

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his own PhD in Organizational Learning,
Performance and Change. We've been talking a

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bit about the role of me purpose
in our lives. After the break,

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we're going to talk about purposeful leadership. Stay with us, we'll be right

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back. Alice Cortes is a speaker
and engagement and development catalyst. She designs

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and delivers professional development, leadership and
engagement workshops and can bring her expertise to

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your organization. She will help ignite
meaningful development within your workforce that will increase

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employee engagement, performance and retention.
To learn more or to invite Elise to

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speak to your organization, please visit
her at www dot elisecortes dot com.

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She would welcome the opportunity to help
get your employees working on purpose. This

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is working on Purpose with Elise Cortes. To reach our program today, send

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an email to a lease Alic at
elisecortes dot com. Now back to working

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on Purpose. If you're just joining
us, My guest is Zach mccurio,

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one of the leading voices on the
role of purpose and meaning and organizations,

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work, and life. Zach is
the author of The Invisible Leader, Transform

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Your Life Work an organization with the
power of authentic Purpose, and he's the

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founder and author of purpose speaks dot
com, the popular blog on purposeful leadership.

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He is also a regular contributor on
purpose for the Huffington Post and other

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international media outlets. We've been talking
about the role of meeting and purpose in

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our lives. Next we'll talk about
leadership. But first, there's one other

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thing that I wanted to get to, Zach, and that is you talk

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in your book about common mistakes people
make when it comes to motivating and inspiring

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ourselves. What are a couple points
that you think are important for us to

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know there? I think there is
still this, I guess misnomer that as

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human beings were wired to acquire and
achieve things, and we tend to motivate

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ourselves and others by getting the next
thing. And you know, even me,

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who's someone who's in this purpose space, I find myself doing that.

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You know, if I get this
number of book sales, or this number

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of engagements or this, then I'll
be successful or happy. But the problem

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with results is precisely the fact that
we can achieve them, and so we

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achieve the result, and then what
and we feel sort of a sense of

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emptiness. And I think it's important
to remember that no human being, when

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you look at all of the psychological
research, was ever meaningfully fulfilled for the

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long term because of some extrinsic reward. So we have to look deeper into

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thinking about purpose as what do we
contribute, how do we pursue a reason

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for existing beyond us? Because while
results push us for the short term,

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when you attach yourself to a bigger
purpose outside of yourself, a bigger contribution,

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it constantly pulls us forward. So
when we start with purpose, the

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results typically follow. That was so
worth the ask. I'm so glad we

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talked about that. That was yummy. I think that I got even more

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out of how you just answered that
than I did from the book, not

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that that was missing in the book. You just generated it so beautifully.

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There. Okay, great, and
that will help us, I think as

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we talk a little bit more about
this the purposeful leadership piece of this next

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bit. But I want to get
to the generation question. Zach. So,

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in your research and your experience working
with people and organizations, do you

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find a difference generationally in how people
desire a purpose in their work in overall

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lives. So this is such a
great question, and I think that one

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of when I'm working with people and
organizations that are multi generational, which is

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every organization, I find that there's
a misunderstanding of what purpose and meaningfulness is.

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And I think that what happens is
is that you read all of these

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surveys about millennials wanting meaningful work and
wanting to matter, and if you don't

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understand what meaning and purpose are at
their core, that we've were wired to

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crave it, that it's really about
contribution and usefulness, then it's easy to

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say, well, oh, they
just want to feel good as millennials.

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But what it really comes down to
is that meaningfulness and purpose when you're thinking

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about our beingness of being wired to
contribute is universal across human beings. How

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people talk about that need tends to
be different because different generations just have different

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values. One example I'll give when
I think about millennials, and they've been

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more vocal about the need for purpose
and meaning and work. And I think

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as a result of seeing people in
meaningless jobs, whether it's their parents or

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grandparents or having that narrative of working
for the weekend. I think that one

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of the reasons why millennials are so
purpose centered is actually as a result,

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and it's a positive result of technology. When I think about millennials, they

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have grown up with human stories from
around the world in the palm of their

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hand, and I think what that
does is generate a sense of I want

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to do something about it. I
don't think I think millennials don't just want

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to read the news. I think
they want to do something about it.

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And when they go into an organization
that doesn't give an outlet to experience that

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doing something or that agency, there
can be a tendency to shut down.

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But when you listen to that craving
for agency and meaningfulness, and then you

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ask your other generations in your department
or organization, is this something that's a

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value to you, what you often
find is a commonality that all people want

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to feel like they matter. I
just think millennials are being a little bit

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more vocal about it and in different
ways. That was a beautiful insight Zach

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about how millennials might have they've grown
up with technology and reading human life stories

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in palm of your hands. That
is a beautiful way for us to really

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understand where this came from for them. And I've never heard anybody particulate that

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before, and I've never heard anybody
else besides me use the word agency.

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So I love that. Yeah,
purpose is the ultimate agency builder when I'm

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working with I work with a lot
of underprivileged workers, whether they're mechanics,

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bus drivers, janitors. I work
with students who are the first and their

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family to go to college. And
what I find is that when students realize,

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when people realize that they do have
something to contribute, that they have

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a contribution right now. It's the
ultimate agency builder, and it's incredibly powerful

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at an organizational level. I love
to see. I can have you on

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for several hours, but we'll have
to have a V two version of this,

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I'm sure, because there's more to
dig into. Yeah, but let's

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talk a little bit about the leadership
piece of things here. So in your

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book, Zach, I absolutely love
and completely align with your stand on leadership.

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This is the way that you described
it that just stuck out for me.

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You say the primary role of managers, supervisors, and leaders of all

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kinds is to be responsible for forty
percent of people's lives. If those lives

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are to be meaningful, work must
be meaningful. We are wired to search

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for meetings, So designing environments that
foster meaning and organizations is more than just

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a good idea for modern leaders.
I argue it's a moral responsibility and the

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most important skill leaders can have a
men, Oh my gosh, that is

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fantastic. How did you arrive at
this profound stance? Again, it comes

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from listening and observing. And one
story I think can really highlight this.

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I was working with a group of
mechanics and bus drivers for a school district

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and the person who hired me was
in leadership positions and brought me in and

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they sat me down and they said, Zach, this is going to be

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a really tough crowd. I mean, these people really aren't into leadership development.

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They're not going to be into this
purpose stuff. A lot of them

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are here for a paycheck. And
I said, well, great, now,

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I'm super excited, thank you for
that. But I you know,

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I know the science of purpose,
but I was like in my head,

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I was like, no, no, they'll they'll want this, they'll crave

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this because they're people. And even
when I was going on stage about to

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talk to this group of mechanics and
bus drivers. Someone stopped me and said,

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you know, I'm really sorry if
this is a tough crowd. Like

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as I was starting to engagement and
so all, I asked the group to

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do this is the only thing I
did for an hour, and it was

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amazing, as I just said,
right down one time where you felt like

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your job truly mattered in the world, and they were, you know,

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like, no one will do this. There were seventy five people in the

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room. Seventy five people filled it
out. They sent it back to me.

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I started reading them off. The
first one I read was from a

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mechanic who wrote, I felt like
my job mattered when I was at the

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funeral of a pre kindergarten student.
He saw that I was in my mechanics

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outfit came up to me. The
parent of that student who had passed away,

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saw that I was in my mechanics
outfit. Came up to me and

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said, I just want to thank
you because the bus ride to school was

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the highlight of my son's young life, and all of a sudden people stopped.

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I went on to read seventy four
stories of meaning like this. Now,

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I want to juxtapose this to what
I said earlier that oftentime, all

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of those stories were locked away by
management and leaders self fulfilled filling prophecies that

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people are just there for a paycheck
or they want to acquire and achieve things.

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And so when we can unlock those
stories, that yearning for mattering,

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the meaning that's already there, and
whatever job, you get that emotional reaction

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that you can get to that story
I just told every single day. And

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so that's why I think that it
is such an imperative for leaders to be

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able to unlock these stories of meaning
and meaningfulness an organization so all people can

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experience that. And to your point, leaders have a very unique position to

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be able to do that for people
and to be able to impact their overall

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lives, not just the forty percent. And I think that is such an

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important thing to emphasize as we develop
leaders, as people step into a leadership

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world, this is really a bigger
responsibility. You sure you're up for this,

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absolutely? And I often hear people
say things. Leaders say things like

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they like they're here for the paycheck
or Zach, this shift. That shift's

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going to be hard to work with, and I think that we need to

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redefine that perspective of the they Yeah, they may have gotten into your company

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or that job because they needed a
paycheck, but they're there, and if

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they're there, we have a responsibility
to cultivate an environment that elicit's really a

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basic human desire, which is meaning
and purpose. Completely agree another thing.

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It might be also embedded a bit
in what you were just talking about there,

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Zach. But I want to be
sure and ask this of you.

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You say in your book that the
best leaders aren't people, which I think

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is very clever. So what do
you mean by that? Well, you

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know, when I think of leaders, you know, we think of people

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that motivate our behaviors, change our
behaviors, help us be better people,

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and whatever it is that we're doing, whatever movement that we're doing. But

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there's a line from a management scholar
from the late nineteen twenties named Mary Parker

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Filette, and she said leaders and
followers are both following the invisible leader.

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The common purpose and what we find
in research time and time again is one

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of the most profound motivators of our
behaviors, attitudes, actions, and helping

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us be optimal human beings is actually
not another person. It's not another but

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it's a big other centered purpose.
And purposeful leaders are leaders that have the

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ability and allow the environment to create
the conditions for that purpose to take over,

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for that big common purpose to be
the ultimate leader, not any one

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person. M God's so compelling.
That's so compelling, And I got to

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believe that anybody who's listening to the
show, whether they're a leader or whether

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they're supporting a leader, has got
to be buying into that. And that's

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just that's as good as it gets
right there from my vantage point. We

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can stop the show now, Zach, first time I've ever ended early.

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Okay, Well, I know you
could probably speak forever on this next question,

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but I wanted to at least queue
it up here as maybe just give

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something to our listeners. But how
can leaders develop a purpose driven approach to

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their leadership? Well, really,
there are five things that I would think

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about. The first is making sure
you have a strong sense of your own

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purpose and your own moral compass.
I mean, oftentimes we do a lot

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of work for other people in organizational
development or leadership development, but that we

409
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.599
forget to be really crystal clear on
why we're here, and then how our

410
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.640
why helps deliver this organization's why,
and then can we communicate that to people,

411
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:26.039
because if we as leaders don't understand
our purpose, it's going to be

412
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:30.480
very difficult to get others to understand
their own. The other thing that I

413
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:36.680
think is really important is to be
able to connect people's daily work to the

414
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:41.519
bigger purpose, using stories to make
sure that people can see the end outcome

415
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:47.000
of what they do. You know, NASA when they were on the Race

416
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:52.079
to the Moon, every department at
NASA had what's called a ladder to the

417
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:57.160
moon where every supervisor was able to
connect every small task to an objective which

418
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:00.799
ultimately led to the person on the
moon. So make sure there's a clear

419
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:06.599
line of sight to the big purpose
for your people. And then making sure

420
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:10.160
that the human impact is part of
decision making, especially in stressful and difficult

421
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:15.119
times. And how are you casting
a vision for the team that puts the

422
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:22.079
human being first of how you're going
to deliver that impact. And then finally,

423
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.759
as you're thinking about decisions, just
ask yourself, am I involving every

424
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.319
stakeholder that's impacted by this decision?
And so there are just some few tips

425
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:34.039
that you can start off with,
but I would say the most important is

426
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.799
to have a strong sense of your
own purpose, using some of the reflective

427
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:43.119
techniques that we talked about earlier,
and being able to communicate that to the

428
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:47.119
people that you serve. Awesome,
awesome, Okay, Well, so some

429
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:51.440
of what you've got to there,
I know, gets to creating a meaningful

430
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:55.559
environment for employees. What are the
benefits or the effects of this? And

431
00:32:55.599 --> 00:32:58.799
there are people out there that that
I talked to In fact, just this

432
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:01.240
morning was running with my friend talking
about purpose and he, you know,

433
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:05.880
does this whole thing scratch of the
head thing? What you know? I

434
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.839
thought you were smarter than that,
Elise. So what are the effects?

435
00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:15.559
What do we get by creating a
meaningful environment for employees? Well, I

436
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:20.599
mean the research is powerful when we
and it really goes back to that purpose

437
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:28.640
literally, physiologically and neurologically changes us. When we help other people, we

438
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:35.160
get a boost of neurotransmitters, dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin neuroscience, it's called

439
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.400
the happiness trifecta. We get a
boost of that. So when we're thinking

440
00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:44.279
about other people, which purpose encourages
us to lift our eyes off of ourself

441
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:50.319
because it's other centered by default,
we actually start feeling better and doing better.

442
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:52.759
And so when people ask me,
well, Zach, all this stuff

443
00:33:52.759 --> 00:34:00.519
about purpose driven teams and companies being
higher performers than other companies, it's not

444
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.039
surprising to me, because when we
help others, our brain gives us some

445
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:09.199
really powerful rewards that literally make us
better. And I just tried to study

446
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:15.400
yesterday that purpose actually activates resilience that
can protect our brain cells. And so

447
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.519
there's a lot of research out there
that finds that having a purpose outside of

448
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:24.760
ourself at work and in life makes
us optimal as human beings. And we're

449
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:30.480
wired for it because purpose has led
us to survive as a species up to

450
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.320
this point that we've contributed to one
another. Beautiful Zach, and a great

451
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:37.920
way to take us into our last
break here. I'm Elice Cortez, your

452
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.360
host. We've been on there with
Zach mccurio. He is one of the

453
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:44.679
leading voices on the role of purpose
and meaning in organizations, work, and

454
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:47.719
life. Zach is the author of
The Invisible Leader, Transform Your Life,

455
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:52.800
Work and organization, and the Power
with the Power of authentic Purpose. Zach

456
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:57.239
serves as a researcher and adjunct faculty
at Colorado State University in Fort Collins,

457
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:01.360
Colorado, where he teaches courses on
purposeful leadershi and organizational development as he completes

458
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:06.480
his PhD in Organizational Learning, Performance
and Change. He joins us today from

459
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.760
Port Collins, Colorado. We've been
talking about purpose for leadership. After the

460
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.880
break, we're going to talk about
building cultures of purpose. Stay with us,

461
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.159
We'll be right back. Alice Cortes
is a speaker and engagement and development

462
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:22.000
catalyst. She designs and delivers professional
development, leadership and engagement workshops and can

463
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:27.840
bring her expertise to your organization.
She will help ignite meaningful development within your

464
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:32.039
workforce that will increase employee engagement,
performance and retention. To learn more or

465
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:37.800
to invite Elise to speak to your
organization, please visit her at www dot

466
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:43.440
Elisecortes dot com. She would welcome
the opportunity to help get your employees working

467
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:53.519
on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with Elise Cortes. To reach our

468
00:35:53.559 --> 00:36:00.400
program today, send an email to
a lease Alise at a Lase Cortes dot

469
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:06.239
com. Now back to working on
purpose. If you're just tuning in,

470
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:08.199
my guest is Zach mccuriel. He's
one of the leading voices on the role

471
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:13.239
of purpose and meaning in organization's work
and life. Zach is the author of

472
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.039
The Invisible Leader, Transform your life, work and organization with the Power of

473
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:21.280
Authentic Purpose, and is the founder
and author of purpose speaks dot com,

474
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:24.559
the popular blog on purposeful leadership.
He is also a regular contributor on purpose

475
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:29.159
for the Huffington Post and other international
media outlets. I'm your host, Alis

476
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:31.880
Cortes. So for this last segment, Zach, I want to talk about

477
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:37.440
helping organizations to build cultures of purpose. And you have a fantastic chapter in

478
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:42.639
your book called the Economics of Mattering, which is a fantastic chapter name by

479
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:45.440
the way, and in that chapter
you're welcome. It's just the whole thing

480
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:51.320
is just wonderfully written. And in
that chapter you share some realed examples of

481
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:55.559
well known and already very successful companies
that have taken on purpose initiatives. There's

482
00:36:55.639 --> 00:37:00.840
one in particular that caught Maya that
was the KPMG example. So will you

483
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:05.360
share with our listeners what KPMG took
on and it's net results. Sure,

484
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:09.440
and to give you some context,
KPMG is an accounting firm. They major

485
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:14.360
product is auditing, and so they're
one of the big four accounting firms.

486
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:19.960
And what they realized is that it's
very difficult to differentiate on what you do

487
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:24.159
when what you do technically is the
same across your competitors. And this is

488
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:29.639
why I always say that anybody can
copy what you do and how you do

489
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:32.840
it, but no one can copy
at your core why you are. And

490
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:38.159
KPMG really tapped into that and one
of the things that they decided to do

491
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:44.960
was, let's let's compete on our
purpose, on what we do to contribute

492
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:47.880
to other people. So they set
up this Basically, they set up this

493
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:54.800
app which allowed their employees to write, you know, a purpose statement of

494
00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:00.679
how they contribute to their clients,
so how they contribute, how they're helpful.

495
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:05.360
And they solicited these purpose statements,
and they expected to get like ten

496
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:07.719
thousand. In fact, they actually
said, if we get ten thousand in

497
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:12.239
two months, we'll give you all
two vacation days off, which in the

498
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:17.639
counting accounting industry, that's great.
And they got over forty thousand entries and

499
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:22.639
there's only twenty seven thousand US employees, which one shows the yearning for meaning

500
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:29.639
and purpose. But two, it
shows how pervasive it was across the organization.

501
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:34.519
So people started writing in about their
clients like I'm an auditor, but

502
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:39.039
I champion democracy, or I combat
terrorism, or I help farms go grow,

503
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:44.159
And they got all of these purpose
statements that came in. And what

504
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.599
happened is exactly what happened before,
what I talked about before we went to

505
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:52.679
break. People became better, and
so when individuals become compelled by purpose,

506
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:59.039
the organization becomes better as well.
And so what happened was over ninety percent

507
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:04.199
of their employees said that this purpose
initiative, just allowing them to state a

508
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.880
bigger purpose help them feel more pride
in their work. The business grew,

509
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:10.800
had a global growth rate of over
eight percent, which was the fastest of

510
00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:15.960
all the Big Four that year,
and then it rose seventeen spots on Fortune's

511
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:20.079
ranking of the one hundred best places
to Work, and it was the highest

512
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:24.679
ever ranking of a Big four accounting
firm. So you talk about a competitive

513
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:30.760
advantage, eliciting meaning and mattering was
really the ultimate competitive advantage, and why

514
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:37.639
you are when you articulate it often
cannot be replicated or copied and so that's

515
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:43.519
why it can be really powerful in
optimizing the human beings that ultimately produce every

516
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:49.079
result in any business. If that
doesn't get you starting to think about,

517
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:51.559
hey, this purpose stuff might be
checking into, I don't know what's going

518
00:39:51.639 --> 00:39:54.320
to do it for you, right, Those kind of results are fantastic,

519
00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:00.719
Yeah, and they've been seen across
numerous industries. You know, purpose driven

520
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:05.440
companies have been found to outperform the
markets by six to one, brands with

521
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:09.480
purpose outperform fifteen to one. But
we have to remember it's because it's purposeful

522
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:16.119
people who drive the results. That
individuals who are compelled by purpose make up

523
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:21.159
purposeful organizations. And so that's just
a really important thing to remember that this

524
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:25.679
starts with the people at the front
line. I love that, And along

525
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:29.400
those lines, I definitely wanted to
get into this before we get off the

526
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:31.119
air here. I mean, I
know that you work with companies to help

527
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:36.280
them build purpose driven cultures, so
I'm interested in I think our listeners probably

528
00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:39.480
want to understand this too. How
do leaders within companies recognize they need to

529
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:44.400
build a purpose driven culture? What's
going on or missing in that company for

530
00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:49.360
them to start to check into this
possibility. Often it's when things are going

531
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:54.280
really well, yet people are still
unmotivated and disengaged. You know. I

532
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:59.320
you know companies that come to me
and say, oh, we've engineered these

533
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.440
benefits, have good salaries, you
know, the economy is good, but

534
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:07.880
I still can't get my people to
stay, or we still can't get people

535
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:12.559
motivated, or when salespeople come to
me and they say the most empty I

536
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:15.480
had this one person say to me
last week, the most empty part of

537
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:17.400
my life is when I achieve a
goal quarterly goal. And when I don't

538
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:22.920
achieve a quarterly goal. There's got
to be something more. And so those

539
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:28.159
types of signals are signals that there's
probably a meaning and purpose gap going on.

540
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:32.280
But I would argue that purpose isn't
just this one off thing that we

541
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:36.960
do an initiative and then people have
found it. It has to be maintained.

542
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.199
Some of my biggest clients are in
industries where you would think they have

543
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:45.920
a sense of purpose by default.
I work with healthcare and education as two

544
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.400
of my biggest clients, and what
I find is that sometimes the good work

545
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:53.280
can become normal work. So we
really need to strategize the maintenance of meaning

546
00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:58.400
into the work and make it as
robust of a strategy as any of our

547
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:02.719
financial strategies, which is which is
a tall task but a powerful one.

548
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:07.480
I love that phrase, strategize the
maintenance of meaning. Oh my gosh,

549
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:10.519
Sach, that is that is one
two quote on you. Thank you for

550
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:14.960
that, of course. Yeah,
I mean it's it's it's important for people

551
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.400
to realize that purpose doesn't just happen
that it's it has to be strategic,

552
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.159
yeah, and cultivated, right and
nurture. It's not something that we just

553
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:27.559
kind of poof and it shows up
and then it's wherever there. Yeah.

554
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:30.800
When you see that with a lot
of the purpose driven branding that's going on

555
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.719
right now, and I often say
to people, it's important to remember that

556
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:37.679
like a brand can't create purpose,
it just can express what's already there,

557
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:42.679
and so we need to cultivate what's
there and ask those tough questions. Mm

558
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.639
hmmm, mm hmm. When I
was coming back from my trip from Australia

559
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:49.320
and New Zealand, I took a
picture of I forget what airport thought I

560
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:54.119
was in Zach but there was this
cafe and it was it said purpose driven

561
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:59.920
food. Oh yeah, I'm like, that's right. What does that mean

562
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:07.039
exactly? What does that mean?
Well, you talk in your book about

563
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:10.360
five ways that we can create a
culture of significance, and so I'd love

564
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:13.960
to talk about some of those.
I like to be able to give my

565
00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:16.800
listeners something that they can actually walk
away from and start to either think about

566
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:21.559
or put to work. So what
can we leave them with great? I

567
00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:24.559
mean, I think the first thing
is that your culture will ultimately be what

568
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:30.239
you reward. And so the first
is to ask yourself do you reward for

569
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:37.079
acquiring and achieving things? Or do
you reward for contributing and helpfulness? And

570
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:42.760
that often that question alone can can
help make a huge difference. You know,

571
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:46.119
for instead of look at all your
reward structures and see what do you

572
00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:50.480
reward for? People come to me
and say, Zach, people in my

573
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:53.639
company are they fight with each other? There's not a lot of collaboration.

574
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:59.440
And then I ask do you reward
them to do differently? And when you

575
00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:02.000
have self serving rewards, you'll get
a self serving culture. I think the

576
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:07.239
second thing is to really be the
narrative setter, to cast the meaning.

577
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:12.440
I often go into organizations and I
hang out at the proverbial water cool or

578
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:15.159
whatever that may be at the beginning
of an engagement, and I usually hear

579
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:20.039
two things. People either complain about
a supervisor or they talk about the weekend

580
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:23.119
again and say, I always say, what people talk about in the parking

581
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:27.320
lot and the hallways or around the
water cooler is who you really are.

582
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:31.960
And once you can grasp that and
start to change that by adding in stories

583
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.159
of impact, setting the narrative on
the human being that's at the end of

584
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:40.079
the work, constantly reaffirming that that's
why people are there, it can be

585
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:45.920
powerful. The third thing is ask
yourself, do we spend more time talking

586
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:52.360
about the why or the how or
the what before you show people what to

587
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:57.599
do or how to do it with
regard to whatever task you're doing, whether

588
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:01.760
you're onboarding somebody or getting somebody to
a adopt a change initiative, Before you

589
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:05.559
show people what to do or how
you do it, do you show them

590
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.159
why it matters, show them the
impact on the human being that's at the

591
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:13.119
end of the work. That is
incredibly powerful. And then to do that

592
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:17.159
you have to encourage imagination, encourage
people to think beyond themselves into how their

593
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:22.159
work impacts other people. And then
lastly, I would say that try not

594
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.719
to get too big with this.
You know a lot of listeners I'm sure

595
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:30.480
out there don't have the budget to
do what KPMG did and roll out a

596
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:34.960
new app to capture purpose. But
focus on the small. How do your

597
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:40.360
people express the purpose of your company
through things like body language? Smiling for

598
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.039
example, has a huge impact on
what people perceive of us. So start

599
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:51.119
focusing on those small, little elements
of how the purpose is expressed, and

600
00:45:51.159 --> 00:45:57.800
you'll be surprised about how the behavior
starts changing the culture. I just had

601
00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:00.320
a thought, and I wonder about
this sac and your work work with companies

602
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:05.639
to work on their culture in a
purposeful way. Have you ever done anything

603
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:09.519
where you've gone in and had them
ask the employees what is this organization's purpose?

604
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:14.960
Yeah? So that's one of the
best practices is actually to test purpose.

605
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.239
I mean test it for clarity.
There's actually some research out there that

606
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:27.559
finds that just being a purpose driven
organization doesn't yield any positive results from a

607
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.280
research perspective. And you may be
thinking, wow, well that invalidates things.

608
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.840
But what the researchers did find is
employees that indicated that the purpose was

609
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:42.679
clear, that it was talked about
every day. Those organizations called high purpose

610
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:47.199
clarity organizations yielded positive results. So
I appreciate you bringing that up, asking

611
00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:51.679
them in their own language what the
purpose is of the organization is powerful.

612
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:58.000
One thing that I have done is
asked everybody to fill out a form where

613
00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:00.920
they can say I felt like my
job, Matt or most when and they

614
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:06.159
could just complete that and then the
goal of the leader is to replicate those

615
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:10.360
moments as much as possible for those
people. And you'll find themes throughout that

616
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:16.280
don't guess at what makes people come
alive? Have them tell you gorgeous,

617
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:19.440
Zach. And we're almost out of
time here, and I want to give

618
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.000
you the last word if you will
here. So, knowing that this show

619
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:27.079
is about helping listeners across the globe
more meaningfully and productively connect with their work,

620
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:30.239
in say, thirty seconds, what
would you like to leave them with.

621
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:34.679
Yeah, it's my hope that I
can make this idea of purpose practical.

622
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:37.199
And so one of the things I
think to take away is that this

623
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:43.000
idea of finding some big purpose out
there, focus more on being purposeful and

624
00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:45.480
let that purpose find you. And
then I think the second thing is that

625
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:51.880
everyone has a purpose. Every job
has a purpose, exists to serve some

626
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:55.480
human beings, solve some human problem, or fill some human need, and

627
00:47:55.639 --> 00:48:00.960
so and so try to resist those
self fulfilling prophecies about certain jobs or where

628
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.440
are you at now? Where you're
at now, because if you can learn

629
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:07.400
to find purpose where you are now, you'll learn to be purposeful wherever you

630
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:10.159
want to be. And then the
final thing is that it's hard and uncomfortable.

631
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:15.280
Being purposeful is a habit, and
just like going to the gym after

632
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:19.559
you haven't gone in seven months is
uncomfortable and difficult to get into, so

633
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:23.559
too are the habits of being purposeful. Like we've talked about, so repetition

634
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:30.119
every day asking yourself the questions that
we've posed throughout this episode, I think

635
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:35.800
can be really powerful and starting to
build the habits of purpose. Zach,

636
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:39.079
what an incredible contribution and gift you
have been to me and to our listeners.

637
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.920
Thank you so much for joining Working
on Purpose today. Yeah, thanks

638
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:47.639
for having me on and for just
in general doing this show. Yeah,

639
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:52.800
like you, I think it's really
critically important. So if you want to

640
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.039
learn more about Zach mccurio and the
work he does in organizations and with individuals

641
00:48:57.119 --> 00:48:59.480
working on meeting and purpose. Or
you want to check into his book or

642
00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:02.960
his blog, visit his website.
It's Zach mccurio dot com. So that's

643
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:09.280
z A c H M E R
c U r io Zach mccurio dot com.

644
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:13.760
Join us next week when we're on
the air with newly minted author Joy

645
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:17.239
Martina talking about her number one bestseller
on Amazon, how to use your intuition

646
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:21.119
to change your life, and remember
that worker is at least one third of

647
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:24.320
our life. So let's work on
purpose. Well, you hope you've enjoyed

648
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:29.800
this week's program. Be sure to
tune in to Working on Purpose, featuring

649
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:35.360
your host Alis Cortes, each week
on the Voice America Empowerment Channel. This

650
00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:37.440
week, find your life's purpose at
work