Catalyzing Purpose-Driven Leadership and Culture

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five, it's working

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on purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Thanks for tuning

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in again this week. I'm your
host, Elise Cortez, joining you from

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Dallas, Texas, which is homebase
for me. This program is all about

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helping people more meaningfully and productively connect
with their work and equipping leaders to cultivate

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meaningful and purpose in their work as
well. I bring on guests who have

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a particular perspective or experience that I
think expands this conversation. As a management

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consultant social scientist, I draw on
the meaning work research I've been doing over

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the last fifteen years, so as
from my own consulting speak and developing workforce

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experience across the globe. I'll get
to my program in just a moment,

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but let me say something about an
important date coming up Friday, and Saturday,

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October nineteenth and twenty twenty eighteen.
That's the date we're hosting the first

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Working on Purpose conference here in Dallas, Texas. So if you want to

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be involved as a speaker, participant, or responsor, contact me at ale

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at a lease Cortez dot com.
We'll be bringing together a world class group

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of speakers to enlighten business and human
resource leaders on creating purpose driven culture and

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leadership within their companies and to help
individuals enlive into their own purpose. I'm

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so excited I can hardly stand it. Obviously. Last week, if you

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missed the show live, you can
always catch to be a recorded podcast.

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We were on there with Debbie Murzac. She's the president of the Sales Company,

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a Texas based firm that is helping
hundreds of entrepreneurs, individuals, and

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corporations better assess, understand, and
engage than practical purposeful selling. We had

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a great conversation about some of the
fears that people tend to encounter and trying

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to sell, and ways we can
get some help from others in our selling

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process. It was a great conversation
with us. This week is Zach Mercurio.

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He's one of the leading voices on
the role of purpose and meeting and

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organizations, work and life. As
a consultant, speaker, and researcher,

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he has helped leaders in nearly every
industry around the world understand the role of

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purpose and meaning and designing thriving organizations. Zach is the author of The Invisible

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Leader, Transform your life, work, and organization with the power of authentic

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Purpose. He is also a PhD
candidate, researcher, and adject faculty at

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Colorado State University, where he teaches
courses on organizational learning, performance, and

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change. In this conversation today,
we'll be talking about the role of meeting

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and purpose in today's world, purposeful
leadership, and how organizations can build a

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culture of purpose. Zach joins it
today from Fort Collins, Colorado. Zach,

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Welcome to Working on Purpose. Hey, Ois, thanks for having me.

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I'm so excited that a show called
Working on Purpose exists in this world.

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You and me alike. I'm happy. And by the way, just

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as we start here, let me
give you a quick little fun jab.

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You know that you have publicly embarrassed
me. Right, No, here's how

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you did it. I was reading
your book on the plane going on vacation

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to Australia and New Zealand, and
I was like so exuberantly agreeing with your

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points that people would look up around, going what are you reading? What

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are you into? So thank you
for embarrassing me publicly, Zach in the

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best possible way. Yeah. You
mean, when you speak the language of

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purpose, you find a tribe of
people. That's what I've found, so

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I'm not surprised I do that as
well. Okay, good and by the

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way, I totally forgive you.
Thank you. Yeah yeah, okay.

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Well, So for this first segment, I want to talk about the role

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of meeting and purpose in today's world, but I want to start start with

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talking about you. I mean,
it's it's really phenomenal to me, Zach,

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that you have dedicated your life to
empowering purposeful people and building purposeful organizations.

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Of course I've got a similar kind
of an aim, but yours is

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really laser focus. You've written this
fantastic book, you're working on a PhD

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program and organizational learning performance and change. This is just an incredible amount of

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focus on purpose. So I want
to know where did this realization that purpose

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can transform peopleizations come from? For
you? Well, for me, I

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guess it came from a source of
pain in not experiencing purpose and meaning,

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and I think that's where a lot
of us in this work start off.

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But I was a journalism major in
college. I studied journalism, so I

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was taught to listen and to observe. And in my first job out of

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college, I was in a sales
job that was really completely results obsessed,

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focused on making money, and that's
sort of how I got into that job.

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I was focused on the results.
Like most of us are get this

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major, to get this job,
then I'll be happy, fulfilled successful.

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It's this sort of if then argument
that characterizes a lot of our society.

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And what I found in that job
through listening was really distressing. It was

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just really distressed that people on Monday
talked about the weekend, like like on

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Mondays they would come in and say, oh, is it the weekend yet?

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I mean, that was the collective
narrative, right, And when you

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think about how many people live for
two sevenths of their lives the weekend,

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it really is astounding, and it
astounded me in that first job out of

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college. But where I saw a
glimmer of the other way. This could

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be if people really connected and aligned
to why they did what they did beyond

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what they got for it. It
was powerful and it was through a chance

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encounter and I wrote about it in
the book. With a cab driver who

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asked me how I was doing,
and I mumbled something about being excited for

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the weekend, and then I asked
him how he was, and he just

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lit up. I mean, I
can't describe it over the air right now,

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but you know those people that just
have an aura about them. He

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lit up in that way of smiling
and he said, I said, how

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are you doing? He said,
great, fantastic, He goes, I

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get to talk to people every half
hour. You can't beat that. And

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he was so excited about that.
And I realized he didn't tell me he

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was excited because he drove cabs.
He really told me he was excited because

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he got to talk to people.
It just happened he drove cabs. And

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that's when I realized. I was
like, we could be like that.

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We could design systems where people in
all sorts of jobs understand the bigger purpose

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of their job and come alive for
it. And ever since, I've been

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on this track. So it started
from pain and from listening, and I

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didn't like what I heard, And
now I've been really trying to change it

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and capture the spirit of that cab
driver that really changed my life. I

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really appreciate one how you distinguish those
two ends of the spectrum. One the

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dismal part that I think a lot
of people who are listening to the show

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can can appreciate and probably find some
resonance with. And two distinguishing the other

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side of what it looks like when
people actually do find that meeting and purpose,

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How much better life really is.
That's what we're both up to,

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right, But that's what we're up
for. And I often say that,

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you know, it's it's people.
The most extraordinary people I meet really are

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people who do ordinary things with an
extraordinary perspective. That's that's rooted in a

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bigger purpose. I love that I
read that new book too. It's just

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beautiful and speaking about I do really
want to distinguish this, really break this

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down for our listeners, because everybody
hears these kinds of words meaning purpose,

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mission and things like that. But
you distinguish purpose from mission. Have a

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very specific way of defining purpose in
your book, Will you say that we

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share it with our listeners. Yes, this is very common, and some

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people say to me, Zach,
well, it's semantics. You know,

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it doesn't really matter. But there's
a key difference. Purpose is your genuine

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reason for existence that's useful for others. And if purpose is defined as our

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reason for existence, when you think
about whatever we do, there really wouldn't

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be a reason at all if we
were just alone. The things that we

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do exist in some way to contribute
to other human beings. So that's purpose,

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the reason for which something exists,
the reason for existence. A mission

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is how you go about delivering that
purpose to the world. How are you

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going to deliver on that reason for
existence and prove it every day? And

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then I'll add something else, not
to confuse people, but to add a

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vision to that. And a vision
is what the world will be like when

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you're done, If you were done
fulfilling your purpose, what would the world

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be like? What would people be
like as a result of you delivering on

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your purpose through your mission? So
purpose is why you exist. Mission is

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how you deliver that reason for existence. And vision I conceptualize it's what the

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world will be like when you're done. Gorgeous, very crisp, and I

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thought it was so important to start
with that too. So listeners really can

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can tune into what you're what you're
up to, what you're trying to accomplish

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as well. Yeah, okay,
so now the next really important question is,

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you know, why do you think
there's such a need for purpose in

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today's world. We're hearing a lot
about it. It seems like these days,

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why where's the need coming from?
It's interesting, and I think purpose

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isn't isn't a trend really, I
mean, as you know, it's been

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around since human beings were around.
I sometimes listen to my toddler just constantly

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asking me why, and I'm reminded
that as soon as we learn language,

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we're wired to ask that why question. Were wired to seek meaning and purpose

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in life. And it's been well
documented that almost since the beginning of time,

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we're wired to identify contribution and how
we contribute. I think, as

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you might know, the industrial revolution
and the really the focus on efficiency and

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produce, produce, produce, has
really depressed that seeking system, that's seeking

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of why that we're all naturally wired
for. And I think that what's happened

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is a next generation of leadership that's
sort of maturing out of the Industrial Revolution

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and looking more at how do we
solve sort of some of these complex world

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problems that have arisen through our growing
population and a lot of the issues that

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you address here on the show,
that we need to be more other and

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bigger focused than just focusing on results. And I think that that's one reason

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why systemically you've seen that sort of
yearning for purpose being unlocked, because the

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systems have been loosened up a little
bit since the Industrial Revolution. And then

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I think, you know, quite
simply, you know again, I was

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dropping my son off at daycare yesterday
and some and said, gosh, is

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at the weekend, yet there is
there is something and people were laughing,

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and it was like some sort of
conversation starter. It's just the everyday narrative.

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And again, I keep going back
to that question of what are what

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are we living for in terms of
our work and our lives. And so

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I think that there's a pervasive need
for meaning and purpose and organizations which is

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accented by results like the Engagement reports
that find just thirteen percent of the world

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reports enthusiasm and pride in their work
just twenty seven percent of managers demonstrate engagement

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active engagement in their work. And
so I think all of this comes together

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right now to this really yearning and
craving for meaning and purpose, almost bringing

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us back to who we truly are
as human beings. That was gorgeous.

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Second, I'll just quickly echo,
I mean, like you, I stand

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for helping that eighty seven percent,
eighty five percent that really you know,

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are not enjoying themselves at work and
don't see don't see the value of it.

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And that when I hear people say
that, you know, is it

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the weekend yet on Monday morning,
it just makes me cringe and I think

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about, wow, you know,
we're literally waiting, We're walking through Monday

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through Friday. What a waste of
precious life? That is, yes,

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well put. And when I when
I read that initial Gallup report, I

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think it was in twenty eleven,
for the first time, I thought to

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myself, these people go home,
they have friends, they have families,

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they have ambitions, goals. There
our society, our economy, and if

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in forty percent of their lives they
don't feel engaged, what does that do

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to us as a society. So
I actually describe the need for purpose and

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meaning and engagement in work as a
as a public health concern of the next

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generation. M I very much agree
with that. In fact, I do

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talk about that because you know,
if we if we really are the walking

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dead while we're at work, it
does cascade to the rest of our lives

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absolutely well. Speaking of that,
I know you get this too, And

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I talk to people all the time
who pine to find their own purpose.

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They're desperately in search to try to
figure out, you know, how do

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I discover this? And you've got
two whole chapters in your book dedicated to

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helping people awaken to their purpose.
I think it would be really splendid if

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you can share some some points from
those chapters about how people can start to

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live a more purpose driven life.
How can they start to awaken to their

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purpose. I think one of the
first things is to stop trying to find

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your purpose like it's somewhere out there. Sometimes this is what happens. We

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try to find purpose, like like
we lost the set of car keys.

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But the reality is I don't think
you can go find your purpose precisely because

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of the fact that you never really
lose it. I mean, you have

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it reason for being by default wherever
you are, whatever you're doing today,

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and sometimes we put this off into
this future like it's this magical thing that

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will find So for people who are
looking to discover purpose, I often make

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the pivot from finding your purpose to
the importance of being purposeful. And starting

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to be purposeful and think purposefully about
what you're already doing can oftentimes invite purpose

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to find you because you learn more
about yourself, how you contribute, how

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you matter, what impact you make. So I think some ideas to get

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people to start thinking about being more
purposeful is first to really start thinking about

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how what they already do today is
impacting another human being. I hear this,

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I teach college undergraduates, and I
hear this in the hallways all the

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time. Do you know what you're
doing with your life yet? Or what

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should I do with my life?
And really, that's one of the most

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psychologically demotivating questions we can ask each
other and ourselves. What we know is

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that when we ask what should my
life do for other people? Or what

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can my life do for other people? Or what is my life doing for

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other people? We actually start feeling
better about our current situation, no matter

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what it is, and so starting
each day by just asking what is my

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doing today and how is what I'm
going to do going to affect somebody else's

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life. That's a really powerful way
to start thinking about how you contribute.

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I think the other way is to
really spend some time reflecting. So being

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purposeful is a set of new habits, and like any habits, it takes

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repetition. So one simple exercise you
could do is to keep a journal and

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every day write down the things you
love to do that day, no matter

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what they are, the things you
were really good at, the skills you

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had you exhibited that day, and
then finally, how you made people's lives

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better, how you, as my
ninety five year old grandfather said, how

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did you improve the moment that day? And if you do that for seven

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days, you'll have a list of
three lists. Today you'll have twenty one

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data points to really dig into what
your contribution is and then what are those

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resources in terms of your passion and
talents to help you bring that contribution to

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life. So stop trying to find
your purpose, start being more purposeful for

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looking at how you already make an
impact, and then add some reflection into

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your life really targeted intentional reflection to
help you uncover purpose. And then I

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often say purpose usually finds us okay. So that was just stunningly gorgeous and

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very crisp. I specially appreciate Zac
that you really emphasize the notion of how

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we're serving other people to help us
get to that place of purpose. I

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think that is a nuance that really
makes a difference for people. It does,

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and scientifically, it makes us better
as human beings when we contribute to

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others. One of the most primitive
parts of our brain is the brain that

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controls for altruism, and so we
are wired to contribute, and our brain

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gives us rewards when we do sell, and so we actually feel better and

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do better. And on that note
of altruism and serving others, let's take

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a quick break here. I'm your
host, Alice Cortez. Were around the

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Air with Zach mccurio. He is
one of the leading experts in the role

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of purpose and meeting and organizations,
work and life. Zach is the author

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of The Invisible Leader, Transform Your
Life, work and organization with the Power

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of Authentic Purpose. Zach serves as
a researcher and adjunct faculty at Colorado State

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University in Fort Collins, Colorado,
where he teaches courses on purposeful leadership and

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organizational development as he completes his own
PhD in Organizational Learning, Performance and Change.

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We've been talking a bit about the
role of me purpose in our lives.

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After the break, we're going to
talk about purposeful leadership. Stay with

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us, we'll be right back.
Elise Cortez is a speaker and engagement and

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development catalyst. She designs and delivers
professional development, leadership and engagement workshops and

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can bring her expertise to your organization. She will help ignite meaningful development within

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your workforce that will increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more

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or to invite Elise to speak to
your organization, please visit her at www

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00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:33.400
dot Elise Cortez dot com. She
would welcome the opportunity to help get your

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employees working on purpose. This is
working on Purpose with Elise Cortez. To

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00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:51.240
reach our program today, send an
email to Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez

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00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:56.279
dot com. Now back to working
on Purpose. If you're just joining us,

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My guest is Zach mccurio, one
of the leading voices on the role

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of purpose and meaning and organizations,
work and life. Zach is the author

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of The Invisible Leader, Transform your
Life, work and organization with the Power

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of Authentic Purpose and It's the founder
and author of purpose speaks dot com,

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the popular blog on purposeful leadership.
He is also a regular contributor on purpose

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for the Huffington Post and other international
media outlets. We've been talking about the

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role of meaning and purpose in our
lives. Next we'll talk about leadership.

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But first, there's one other thing
that I wanted to get to, Zach,

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and that is you talk in your
book about common mistakes people make when

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it comes to motivating and inspiring ourselves. What are a couple points that you

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think are important for us to know
there? I think there is still this,

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I guess misnomer that as human beings
were wired to acquire and achieve things,

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and we tend to motivate ourselves and
others by getting the next thing.

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And you know, even me,
who's someone who's in this purpose space,

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I find myself doing that. You
know, if I get this number of

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book sales, or this number of
engagements or this, then I'll be successful

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or happy. But the problem with
results is precisely the fact that we can

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achieve them. And so we achieve
the result, and then what and we

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feel sort of a sense of emptiness. And I think it's important to remember

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that no human being, when you
look at all of the psychological research,

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was ever meaningfully fulfilled for the long
term because of some extrinsic reward. So

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we have to look deeper into thinking
about purpose as what do we contribute,

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how do we pursue a reason for
existing beyond us? Because while results push

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us for the short term, when
you attach yourself to a bigger purpose outside

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of yourself, a bigger contribution,
it constantly pulls us forward. So when

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we start with purpose, the results
typically follow. That was so worthy,

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ask, I'm so glad we talked
about that was that was yummy. I

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think that I got even more out
of how you just answered that than I

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did from the book. Now that
that was missing in the book. You

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just generated it so beautifully. There. Okay, great, and that will

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help us. I think as we
talk a little bit more about this the

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purposeful leadership piece at this next bit. But I want to get to the

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generation question, Zach, So in
your research and your experience working with people

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and organizations, do you find a
difference generationally and how people desire a purpose

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in their work in overall lives.
So this is such a great question,

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and I think that one of when
I'm working with people and organizations that are

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multigenerational, which is every organization,
I find that there's a misunderstanding of what

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purpose and meaningfulness is. And I
think that what happens is is that you

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read all of these surveys about millennials
wanting meaningful work and wanting to matter,

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and if you don't understand what meaning
and purpose are at their core, that

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we've we're wired to crave it,
that it's really about contribution and usefulness,

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then it's easy to say, well, oh, they just want to feel

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good as millennials. But what it
really comes down to is that meaningfulness and

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purpose when you're thinking about our beingness
of being wired to contribute is universal across

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human beings. How people talk about
that need tends to be different because different

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generations just have different values. One
example I'll give when I think about millennials,

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and they've been more vocal about the
need for purpose and meaning and work.

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And I think as a result of
seeing people in meaningless jobs, whether

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it's their parents or grandparents, or
having that narrative of working for the weekend.

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I think that one of the reasons
why millennials are so purpose centered is

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actually as a result, and it's
a positive result of technology. When I

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think about millennials, they have grown
up with human stories from around the world

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in the palm of their hand,
and I think what that does is generate

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a sense of I want to do
something about it. I don't think I

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think millennials don't just want to read
the news. I think they want to

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do something about it. And when
they go into an organization that doesn't give

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an outlet to experience that doing something
or that agency, there can be a

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tendency to shut down. But when
you listen to that craving for agency and

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meaningfulness, and then you ask your
other generations in your department or organization,

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is this something that's a value to
you? What you often find as a

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commonality that all people want to feel
like they matter. I just think millennials

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are being a little bit more vocal
about it and in different ways. That

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was a beautiful insight zac about how
millennials might have they've grown up with technology

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and reading human life stories and palm
of your hands. That is a beautiful

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way for us to really understand where
where this came from. And I've never

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heard anybody articulate that before, and
I've never heard anybody else besides me use

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the word agency. So I love
that. Yeah, purpose is the ultimate

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agency builder when I when I'm working
with I work with a lot of underprivileged

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workers, whether they're mechanics, bus
drivers, janitors. I work with students

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who are the first in their family
to go to college. And what I

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find is that when when students realize, when people realize that they do have

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something to contribute, that they have
a contribution right now. It's the ultimate

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agency builder and it's incredibly powerful at
an organizational level. M I love to

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see. I could have you on
for several hours, but we'll have to

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have a V two version of this, I'm sure, because there's more to

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dig into. But yeah, but
let's talk a little about the leadership piece

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of things here. So in your
book, Zach, I absolutely love and

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completely align with your stand on leadership. This is the way that you described

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it that just stuck out for me. You say, the primary role of

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managers, supervisors and leaders of all
kinds is to be responsible for forty percent

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of people's lives. If those lives
are to be meaningful, work must be

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meaningful. We are wired to search
for meanings. So designing environments that foster

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meaning and organizations is more than just
a good idea for modern leaders. I

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argue it's a moral responsibility and the
most important skill leaders can have. Amen.

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Oh my gosh, that is fantastic. How did you arrive at this

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profound stance? Again, it comes
from listening and observing. And one story

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I think Ken really highlight this.
I was working with a group of mechanics

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and bus drivers for a school district
and the person who hired me was in

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leadership positions and brought me in and
they sat me down and they said,

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Zach, this is going to be
a really tough crowd. I mean,

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these people really aren't into leadership development. They're not going to be into this

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purpose stuff. A lot of them
are here, you know, for a

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paycheck. And I said, well, great, now, I'm super excited,

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thank you for that. But I
you know, I know the science

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of purpose. But I was like
in my head, I was like,

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no, no, they'll they'll want
this they'll crave this because they're people.

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And even when I was going on
stage about to talk to this group of

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mechanics and bus drivers, someone stopped
me and said, you know, I'm

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really sorry if this is a tough
crowd, like as I was starting,

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and so all I asked the group
to do. This is the only thing

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I did for an hour, and
it was amazing. Is I just said

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right down one time where you felt
like your job truly mattered in the world.

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And they were, you know,
like, no one will do this.

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There were seventy five people in the
room. Seventy five people filled it

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out. They sent it back to
me. I started reading them off.

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The first one I read was from
a mechanic who wrote, I felt like

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my job mattered when I was at
the funeral of a pre kindergarten student.

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He saw that I was in my
mechanics outfit came up to me. The

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parent of that student who had passed
away, saw that I was in my

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mechanics outfit. Came up to me
and said, I just want to thank

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you because the bus ride to school
was the highlight of my son's young life.

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And all of a sudden people stopped. I went on to read seventy

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four stories of meaning like this.
Now, I want to juxtapose this to

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what I said earlier that oftentime,
all of those stories were locked away by

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management and leaders self fulfilled filling prophecies
that people are just there for a paycheck

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or they're why they want to acquire
and achieve things. And so when we

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can unlock those stories, that yearning
for mattering, the meaning that's already there,

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and whatever job you get that emotional
reaction that you can get to that

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story I just told every single day. And so that's why I think that

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it's just such an imperative for leaders
to be able to unlock these stories of

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meaning and meaningfulness and organization so all
people can experience that. And to your

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point, leaders have a very unique
position to be able to do that for

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people and to be able to impact
their their overall lives, not just the

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forty percent. And I think that
is such an important thing to emphasize as

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we develop leaders. As people step
into a leadership role, this is really

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a big responsibility. You sure you're
up for this absolutely? And I often

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hear people say things. Leaders say
things like they like they're they're here for

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the paycheck or zach. This shift, that shift's going to be hard to

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work with, and I think that
we need to redefine that perspective of the

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They Yeah, they may have gotten
into your company or that job because they

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needed a paycheck, but they're there. And if they're there, we have

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a responsibility to cultivate an environment that
elicits really a basic human desire, which

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is meaning and purpose. Completely agree
another thing, and it might be also

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embedded a bit and what you were
just talking about, there's act. But

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I want to be sure and ask
this of you. You say in your

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book that the best leaders aren't people, which I think is very clever.

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So what do you mean by that? Well, you know, when I

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think of leaders, you know,
we think of people that motivate our behaviors,

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change our behaviors, help us be
better people, and whatever it is

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that we're doing, whatever movement that
we're doing. But there's a line from

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a management scholar from the late nineteen
twenties named Mary Parker Filette, and she

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said leaders and followers are both following
the invisible leader. The common purpose and

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what we find in research time and
time again is one of the most profound

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motivators are behaviors, attitudes, actions, and helping us be optimal human beings

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is actually not another person. It's
not another but it's a big other centered

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purpose and purposeful leaders are leaders that
have the ability and allow the environment to

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create the conditions for that purpose to
take over, for that big common purpose

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to be the ultimate leader, not
any one person. That's so compelling.

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That's so compelling, And I gotta
believe that anybody who's listening to the show,

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whether they're a leader or whether they're
supporting a leader, has got to

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be buying into that. And that's
just that's as good as it gets.

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Right there from my advantage point,
we can we can stop the show now,

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Zach, first time I've ever ended
early. Yes, Okay, well,

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I know you could probably speak forever
on this next question, but I

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wanted to at least queue it up
here as maybe just give something to our

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listeners. But how can leaders develop
a purpose driven approach to their leadership?

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Well, really, there are five
things that I would I would think about.

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The first is making sure you have
a strong sense of your own purpose

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and your own moral compass. I
mean, oftentimes we do a lot of

409
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:11.519
work for other people in organizational development
or leadership development, but that we forget

410
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:15.240
to be really crystal clear on why
we're here and then how our why helps

411
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:21.559
deliver this organization's why, and then
can we communicate that to people because if

412
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:26.319
we if we as leaders don't understand
our purpose, it's going to be very

413
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.480
difficult to get others to understand their
their own. The other thing that I

414
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:36.640
think is really important is to be
able to connect people's daily work to the

415
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:41.480
bigger purpose, using stories to make
sure that people can see the end outcome

416
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.920
of what they do. You know, NASA when they were on the Race

417
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:52.039
to the Moon, every department at
NASA had what's called a ladder to the

418
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:57.160
moon where every supervisor was able to
connect every small task to an objective which

419
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:00.759
ultimately lead to the person on the
moon. So make sure there's a clear

420
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:06.599
line of sight to the big purpose
for your people, and then making sure

421
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:10.119
that the human impact is part of
decision making, especially in stressful and difficult

422
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:15.119
times. And how are you casting
a vision for the team that puts the

423
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:22.079
human being first of how you're going
to deliver that impact. And then finally,

424
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:27.400
as you're thinking about decisions, just
ask yourself am I involving every stakeholder

425
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.440
that's impacted by this decision. And
so there are just some few tips that

426
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:34.119
you can start off with, but
I would say the most important is to

427
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:38.400
have a strong sense of your own
purpose, using some of the reflective techniques

428
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:43.440
that we talked about earlier, and
being able to communicate that to the people

429
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:47.279
that you serve. Awesome, awesome, Okay, Well, so some of

430
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:51.880
what you've got to there, I
know, gets to creating a meaningful environment

431
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.839
for employees. What are the benefits
or the effects of this? There are

432
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:59.039
people out there that I talked to, in fact, just this morning,

433
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:01.519
was running with my friend talking about
purpose and he, you know, does

434
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:06.039
this whole thing scratch of the head
thing? What you know? I thought

435
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:09.960
you were smarter than that at least. So what are the effects? What

436
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:15.720
do we get by creating a meaningful
environment for employees? Well, I mean

437
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:22.079
the research is powerful when we and
it really goes back to that purpose literally

438
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:29.119
physiologically and neurologically changes us. When
we help other people, we get a

439
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:35.279
boost of neurotransmitters, dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin. Neuroscience, it's called the

440
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:38.720
happiness trifecta. We get a boost
of that. So when we're thinking about

441
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:44.960
other people, which purpose encourages us
to lift our eyes off of ourselves because

442
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:50.279
it's other centered by default, we
actually start feeling better and doing better.

443
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.000
And so when people ask me,
well, Zach, all this stuff about

444
00:33:53.119 --> 00:34:00.119
purpose driven teams and companies being higher
performers than other company, it's not surprising

445
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:05.960
to me because when we help others, our brain gives us some really powerful

446
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.760
rewards that literally make us better.
And I just want to study yesterday that

447
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:15.840
purpose actually activates resilience, it can
protect our brain cells. And so there's

448
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.960
a lot of research out there that
finds that having a purpose outside of ourself

449
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:25.159
at work and in life makes us
optimal as human beings. And we're wired

450
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:30.559
for it because purpose has led us
to survive as a species up to this

451
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:35.440
point that we've contributed to one another. Beautiful Zach, and a great way

452
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:38.119
to take us into our last break
Here, I'm Elise Cortez, your host.

453
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:40.360
We've been on the air with Zach
mccurio. He is one of the

454
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:45.039
leading voices on the role of purpose
and meaning and organizations, work and life.

455
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:49.000
Zach is the author of The Invisible
Leader, Transform your life, work,

456
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:52.280
and organization, and with the power
of authentic purpose. Zach serves as

457
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:58.119
a researcher and adjunct faculty at Colorado
State University Fort Collins, Colorado, where

458
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:01.960
he teaches courses on purposeful leaders and
organizational development as he completes his PhD in

459
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:06.960
Organizational Learning, Performance and Change.
He joins us today from Port Collins,

460
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.119
Colorado. We've been talking about purpose
for leadership. After the break, we're

461
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:13.360
gonna talk about building cultures of purpose. Stay with us, We'll be right

462
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:17.639
back. Elise Cortez is a speaker
and engagement and development catalyst. She designs

463
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:23.079
and delivers professional development, leadership and
engagement workshops and can bring her expertise to

464
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:29.159
your organization. She will help ignite
meaningful development within your workforce that will increase

465
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:32.800
employee engagement, performance and retention.
To learn more or to invite a lease

466
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:38.199
to speak to your organization, please
visit her at www dot Elise Cortez dot

467
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:44.199
com. She would welcome the opportunity
to help get your employees working on purpose.

468
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:54.360
This is working on purpose with Elise
Cortez. To reach our program today,

469
00:35:54.639 --> 00:36:01.480
send an email to Elise ali Se
at Elise Cortez dot com now back

470
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:06.880
to working on purpose. If you're
just tuning in. My guest is Zach

471
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.000
mccuriel. He's one of the leading
voices on the role of purpose and meaning

472
00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:14.239
and organizations, work and life.
Zach is the author of The Invisible Leader,

473
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:16.960
Transform Your Life, work and Organization
with the Power of Authentic Purpose,

474
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:22.239
and is the founder and author of
purpose speaks dot com, the popular blog

475
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.159
on purposeful leadership. He is also
a regular contributor on purpose for the Huffington

476
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.480
Post and other international media outlets.
I'm your host, Alice Cortez. So

477
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:32.920
for this last segment, Zach,
I want to talk about helping organizations to

478
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:37.960
build cultures of purpose. And you
have a fantastic chapter in your book called

479
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:42.920
the Economics of Mattering, which is
a fantastic chapter name by the way,

480
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:45.599
And in that chapter, you're welcome. It's just the whole thing. It's

481
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:51.280
just wonderfully written and well. In
that chapter you share some reward examples of

482
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:55.519
well known and already very successful companies
that have taken on purpose initiatives. There's

483
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.840
one in particular that caught Maya that
was the KPMG example. So will you

484
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:05.920
share with our listeners what KPMG took
on and it's net results sure. And

485
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:10.079
to give you some context, KPMG's
an accounting firm. They major product is

486
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.559
auditing, and so they're one of
the big four accounting firms. And what

487
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:20.880
they realized is that it's very difficult
to differentiate on what you do when what

488
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.519
you do technically is the same across
your competitors. And this is why I

489
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:29.760
always say that anybody can copy what
you do and how you do it,

490
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:34.559
but no one can copy at your
core, why you are. And KPMG

491
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:38.360
really tapped into that and one of
the things that they decided to do was

492
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:45.400
let's let's compete on our purpose,
on what we do to contribute to other

493
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.880
people. So they set up this
Basically, they set up this app which

494
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:57.559
allowed their employees to write you a
purpose statement of how they contribute to their

495
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:02.039
clients, so how they contribute,
how they're helpful, and they solicited these

496
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:06.480
purpose statements and they expected to get
like ten thousand. In fact, they

497
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.320
actually said, if we get ten
thousand and two months, we'll give you

498
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:14.880
all two vacation days off, which
in the accounting industry that's great. And

499
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:21.199
they got over forty thousand entries and
there's only twenty seven thousand US employees,

500
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:27.320
which one shows the yearning for meaning
and purpose, but two it shows how

501
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:32.079
pervasive it was across the organization.
So people started writing in about their clients

502
00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:37.559
like I'm an auditor, but I
champion democracy, or I combat terrorism,

503
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:42.760
or I help farms go grow,
and they got all of these purpose statements

504
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:46.480
that came in. And what happened
is exactly what happened before, what I

505
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:51.679
talked about before we went to break. People became better, and so when

506
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:55.840
individuals become compelled by purpose, the
organization becomes better as well. And so

507
00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:01.360
what happened was over ninety percent of
their employees said that this purpose initiative just

508
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:06.440
allowing them to state a bigger purpose
help them feel more pride in their work.

509
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.039
The business grew had a global growth
rate of over eight percent, which

510
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:14.199
was the fastest of all the Big
four that year, and then it rose

511
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:17.760
seventeen spots on Fortune's ranking of the
one hundred best places to Work, and

512
00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:23.360
it was the highest ever ranking of
a Big four accounting firms. So you

513
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:30.280
talk about a competitive advantage, eliciting
meaning and mattering was really the ultimate competitive

514
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:36.199
advantage and why you are. When
you articulate, it often cannot be replicated

515
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.880
or copied, and so that's why
it can be really powerful in optimizing the

516
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:46.920
human beings that ultimately produce every result
in any business. If that doesn't get

517
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:50.800
you starting to think about, hey, this purpose stuff might be checking into

518
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:52.960
I don't know what's going to do
it for you, right, those kind

519
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:58.559
of results are fantastic, yeah,
and they've been They've been seen across numerous

520
00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:02.599
industries. Purpose driven companies have been
found to outperform the markets by six to

521
00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:07.440
one. Brands with purpose outperformed fifteen
to one. But we have to remember

522
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:15.480
it's because it's purposeful people who drive
the results. That individuals who are compelled

523
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:20.360
by purpose make up purposeful organizations.
And so that's just a really important thing

524
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:24.400
to remember that this starts with the
people at the front line. I love

525
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:28.840
that, and along those lines,
I definitely wanted to get into this before

526
00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:30.679
we get off the year here.
I mean, I know, I know

527
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:34.639
that you work with companies to help
them build purpose driven cultures. So I'm

528
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:37.880
interested, and I think our listeners
probably won't understand this too. How to

529
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:42.159
leaders within companies recognize they need to
build a purpose driven culture, what's going

530
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:45.960
on or missing in that company for
them to start to check into this possibility.

531
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:52.679
Often it's when things are going really
well, yet people are still unmotivated

532
00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:57.440
and disengaged, you know. I
You know companies that come to me and

533
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:00.840
say, oh, we've we've engineered
these benefits, we have good salaries,

534
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:05.039
you know, the economy is good, but I still can't get my people

535
00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:09.400
to stay, or we still can't
get people motivated, Or when salespeople come

536
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:13.840
to me and they say the most
empty I had this one person say to

537
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:15.760
me last week, the most empty
part of my life is when I achieve

538
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:20.280
a quarterly goal. And when I
don't achieve a quarterly goal, There's got

539
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:24.239
to be something more. And so
those types of signals are signals that there's

540
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:30.199
probably a meaning and purpose gap going
on. But I would argue that purpose

541
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:34.840
isn't just this one off thing that
we do an initiative and then people have

542
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:37.920
found it. It has to be
maintained. Some of my biggest clients are

543
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:42.880
in industries where you would think they
have a sense of purpose by default.

544
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:46.280
I work with healthcare and education as
two of my biggest clients, and what

545
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:51.360
I find is that sometimes the good
work can become normal work. So we

546
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:55.480
really need to strategize the maintenance of
meaning into the work and make it as

547
00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:00.719
robust of a strategy as any of
our financial strategies, which is a which

548
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:06.480
is a tall task but a powerful
one. I love that phrase, strategize

549
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:08.480
the maintenance of meaning. Oh my
gosh, Zach, that is that is

550
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:13.199
one to quote on you. Thank
you for that, of course, Yeah,

551
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:15.360
I mean it's it's it's important for
people to realize that purpose doesn't just

552
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:21.519
happen that it's it has to be
strategic, yeah, and cultivated, right

553
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:24.320
and nurture. It's not something that
we just kind of poof and it shows

554
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:28.360
up and then it's wherever there.
Yeah, when you see that with a

555
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:31.119
lot of the purpose driven branding that's
going on right now, and I often

556
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:35.800
say to people, it's important to
remember that like a brand can't create purpose,

557
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:38.800
it just can express what's already there. And so we need to cultivate

558
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:45.480
what's there and ask those tough questions. When I was coming back from my

559
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:47.639
trip from Australia, New Zealand,
I took a picture of I forget what

560
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:52.519
a airport thought I was in,
Zach, but there was this cafe and

561
00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:58.360
it was it said purpose striven food. Oh yeah, I'm like, that's

562
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:05.280
right. What does that mean exactly? What does that mean? Well,

563
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:08.800
you talk in your book about five
ways that we can create a culture of

564
00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:13.039
significance, and so I'd love to
talk about some of those. I'd like

565
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.440
to be able to give my listeners
something that they can actually walk away from

566
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:19.800
and start to either think about or
put to work. So what can we

567
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.400
what can we believe them with great? I mean, I think the first

568
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:27.119
thing is that your culture will ultimately
be what you reward. And so the

569
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:30.840
first is just to ask yourself do
you reward for acquiring and achieving things?

570
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:38.159
Or do you reward for contributing and
helpfulness? And that often that question alone

571
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:44.880
can help make a huge difference,
you know, for instead of look at

572
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:47.480
all your reward structures and see what
do you reward for, people come to

573
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:52.840
me and say, Zach, people
in my company are they fight with each

574
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:55.280
other? There's not a lot of
collaboration. And then I ask do you

575
00:43:55.360 --> 00:44:00.920
reward them to do differently? And
when you have self serving rewards, you'll

576
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:04.639
get a self serving culture. I
think the second thing is to really be

577
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:09.519
the narrative setter to cast the meaning. I often go into organizations and I

578
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:14.280
hang out at the proverbial water cooler
or whatever that may be at the beginning

579
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.880
of an engagement, and I usually
hear two things. People either complain about

580
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:22.639
a supervisor or they talk about the
weekend again and say, I always say,

581
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:24.440
what people talk about in the parking
lot, in the hallways or around

582
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:29.199
the water cooler is who you really
are. And once you can grasp that

583
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:34.559
and start to change that by adding
in stories of impact, setting the narrative

584
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.840
on the human being that's at the
end of the work, constantly reaffirming that

585
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:44.079
that's why people are there, it
can be powerful. The third thing is

586
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:49.840
ask yourself, do we spend more
time talking about the why or the how

587
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.320
or the what before you show people
what to do or how to do it

588
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:59.360
With regard to whatever task you're doing, whether you're on boarding somebody or getting

589
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:02.719
somebody to a adopt a change initiative, Before you show people what to do

590
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:07.119
or how you do it, do
you show them why it matters, show

591
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:09.400
them the impact on the human being
that's at the end of the work that

592
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:14.719
is incredibly powerful. And then to
do that you have to encourage imagination,

593
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:20.239
encourage people to think beyond themselves into
how their work impacts other people. And

594
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.159
then lastly, I would say that
try not to get too big with this.

595
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:27.800
You know a lot of listeners I'm
sure out there don't have the budget

596
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:30.920
to do what KPMG did and roll
out a new app to capture purpose.

597
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:37.119
But focus on the small. How
do your people express the purpose of your

598
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:43.199
company through things like body language?
Smiling for example, has a huge impact

599
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:46.760
on what people perceive of us.
So start focusing on those small, little

600
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:52.639
elements of how the purpose is expressed, and you'll be surprised about how the

601
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:58.599
behavior starts changing the culture. I
just had a thought, and I wonder

602
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.320
about the act and your work work
with companies to work on their culture in

603
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:06.880
a purposeful way. Have you ever
done anything where you've gone in and had

604
00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:10.920
them ask the employees, what's what
is this organization's purpose? Yeah? So

605
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:15.679
that's one of the best practices is
actually to test purpose. I mean test

606
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:22.320
it for clarity. There's actually some
research out there that finds that just being

607
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:28.719
a purpose driven organization doesn't yield any
positive results from a research perspective. And

608
00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:31.199
you may be thinking Wow, Well, that invalidates things. But what the

609
00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:37.280
researchers did find is employees that indicated
that the purpose was clear, that it

610
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:44.960
was talked about every day. Those
organizations called high purpose clarity organizations yielded positive

611
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.880
results. So I appreciate you bringing
that up, asking them in their own

612
00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:52.960
language, what the purposes of the
organization is powerful. One thing that I

613
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:58.679
have done is asked everybody to fill
out a form where they can say I

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00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:02.599
felt like my job mad most when
and they could just complete that and then

615
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:07.159
the goal of the leader is to
replicate those moments as much as possible for

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00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:13.119
those people. And you'll find themes
throughout that don't guess at what makes people

617
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:17.719
come alive? Have them tell you
gorgeous ac And we're almost at a time

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00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:21.400
here and I want to give you
the last word if you will here so

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00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.119
knowing that this show is about helping
listeners across the globe more meaningfully and productively

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00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:29.639
connect with their work and say,
thirty seconds, what would you like to

621
00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:32.480
leave them with? Yeah, it's
my hope that I can make this idea

622
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:37.480
of purpose practical. And so one
of the things I think to take away

623
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:40.519
is that this idea of finding some
big purpose out there, focus more on

624
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:45.039
being purposeful and let that purpose find
you. And then I think the second

625
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:51.079
thing is that everyone has a purpose. Every job has a purpose, exists

626
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:54.400
to serve some human beings, solve
some human problem, or fill some human

627
00:47:54.480 --> 00:48:00.639
need. And and so try to
resist those self fulfilling prophecies about certain jobs

628
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:01.960
or where are you at now?
Where you're at now, because if you

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00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:06.800
can learn to find purpose where you
are now, you'll learn to be purposeful

630
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:09.239
wherever you want to be. And
then the final thing is that it's hard

631
00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:14.719
and uncomfortable. Being purposeful is a
habit, and just like going to the

632
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:19.119
gym after you haven't gone in seven
months is uncomfortable and difficult to get into,

633
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:22.199
so too are the habits of being
purposeful. Like we've talked about,

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00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:29.719
so repetition every day asking yourself the
questions that we've posed throughout this episode,

635
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:32.679
I think can be really powerful and
starting to build the habits of purpose.

636
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:38.400
Zach, what an incredible contribution and
gift you have been to me and to

637
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:43.400
our listeners. Thank you so much
for joining Working on Purpose today. Yeah,

638
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:47.559
thanks for having me on and just
in general doing this show. Yeah,

639
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:52.719
like you, I think it's really
critically important. So if you want

640
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.480
to learn more about Zach Mercurio and
the work he does in organizations and with

641
00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:59.320
individuals working on meeting and purpose,
or you want to check into his book

642
00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:02.480
or his blog, visit his website. It's Zac mccuriot dot com. So

643
00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:08.800
that's z A c h M e
r c u r io zak mcurio dot

644
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:13.480
com. Join us next week when
we're on the air with newly minted author

645
00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:16.559
Joey Martina talking about her number one
best seller on Amazon, how to use

646
00:49:16.599 --> 00:49:20.840
your intuition to change your life,
and remember that work is at least one

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00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.800
third of our lives, So let's
work on purpose. Well, hope you've

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00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:28.920
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune in to Working on Purpose,

649
00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:34.639
featuring your host Alice Cortez, each
week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

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00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:37.280
This week, find your life's purpose
at work