Caring for Your Living Organization

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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Working on Purpose. Now Here is
your host, doctor Elise Cortes. Welcome

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back to the Working on Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning again this week.

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I'm your host, Doctor Earle's Cortes. Join you Lye from Dell's which is

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home base for me. If you've
been tuning in for a while, you

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know this program as a thought leadership
series that enlightens, it inspires listeners with

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insights from distinguished business leaders and subject
matter experts. Our conversations are designed to

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elevate your thinking and entices you to
take a conscious and inspirational approach toward leadership

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and business. Before we get on
the program today, let me give you

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two announcements. The first is we've
launched a gustone Now, which is a

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growth and transformation e learning platform dedicated
to awakening meaning, passion, inspiration and

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purpose in people, leadership and organizations. It features leadership development and other professional

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development courses in English, Spanish and
Portuguese delivered by Yours Truly. You can

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learn more at gustodashnow dot com.
The second announcement I want to share with

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you, I'm so excited to say
that my book is now out on Amazon.

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It's called Purpose Ignited, How Inspirational
Leaders Ignite Passion and Elva cause it's

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actually due for release November seventeenth,
though you can pre order it now.

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Thank you very much for your support. It was amazing to finally get it

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out there now. On a this
Week's Program with Us Today is Norman Wolf.

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He is the founder and CEO of
Quantum leaders, which is a leading

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voice in bringing about a transformation of
the core paradigm of business. He is

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a fifteen year veteran of Hewlett Packard, has led and consulted with companies large

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and small, and he's the author
of The Living Organization, an application of

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the core principles of how the world
works and how organizations can create extraordinary impact.

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We'll be talking about the paradigm shift
necessary to help business evolve to its

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best, the central element of energy
in doing so, and dive deep into

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a few of the core elements that
really distinguished Norman's work and model Norman.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose. It's
a pleasure to be here. It's amazing

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that you're here. Let's just give
a shout out to you if we can,

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because you reached out to me on
LinkedIn a few months ago and just

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said, hey, you know,
why do we talk? Got a few

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things in common, and it has
been magical ever since. I'm so glad

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that you took the leak to reach
out to this stranger. Yeah, thank

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you, Elise. It has been
magical and I've been enjoyed it thoroughly.

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It's such a pleasure to meet people
who are so committed to you helping facilitate

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this period of transformation we're going through. M hm. Well, you know,

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I've had a few conversations along the
way leading up to this one,

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and we've been talking about something that's
really important to you, and what you

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keep saying to me is that that
now is the time for this major paradigm

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shift that in order for business to
reach its full potential, leaders and organizations

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must completely change their view of themselves. So, for our listeners who have

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not been eavesdropping into those conversations,
tell us more about that paradigm shift.

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No excuse. There are two forces
going on if you think about them over

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the last four or five decades.
One, employee engagement is abysmal. People

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just don't enjoy what they do.
Second, the ability for leaders or organizations

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as a whole to achieve the strategic
subjects objectives is also quite abysmal. If

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you look at the statistics put out
by most of the consulting firms and many

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of the academics, the failure rate
of the achieving the objectives of strategic initiatives

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is seventy percent. Seventy percent failed, thirty percent to succeed. So let's

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not take that away from those who
are being successful. Isn't it amazing that

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we have an organizational framework that isn't
doing very well and at the same time,

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isn't creating environments where the very people
who are chartted with executing what has

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to be achieved aren't very satisfied.
Something was fundamentally wrong. And as I

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looked at the proliferation of new ideas, new theories, new models coming out

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of academia and consulting groups, whether
it be creating agile business coming out of

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the IT agile movement, right,
let's apply agility to the business, or

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lean improvement methodologies, or now we've
got reinventing the organization and TL the new

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ways of working and self management self
organizing. We're still failing. So I

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thought, hmm, something more it's
going on. We've got very smart executives,

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very talented people. Something is fundamentally
wrong. And that's where I decided

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that the problem is the paradigm,
simple definition of paradigm. How we see

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the world, what our worldview is, what some people these days like to

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call mindsets, and it's that mindset
that causes us to do what we do

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unconsciously. I delved into that and
said, well, what would be a

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better mindset or better paradigm than the
mechanistic new Tonian view of the world where

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everything's a machine part and we just
follow this. You know, if we

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understand all the machine parts, we
can figure out how to create something well

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that worked great at one point in
time. I don't want to take away

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from it. The industrial revolution was
based on it, and we've had a

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say, one hundred years, one
hundred and fifty years of success from it.

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It just doesn't fit today's world.
Something new has to be book birth,

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something new has to be created.
And what I think it is is,

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let's look at an organization as a
living being. It has a lot

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of those same attributes. And what
we're calling for in organizations going forward is

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the attributes that we would associated with
a living being as opposed to a machine.

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We want them to respond, We
want them to create environments that support

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others. We want them to be
caring, we want them to be agile,

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we want them to adapt and learn. Machines don't do that. Human

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beings do. So I created a
new model called the living organization. Well,

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and I've got a surge. It
a couple of things that I thought

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were searched pearls, because as you
know, I read your book cover to

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cover, as I'm prone to do, and I love your definition. You

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say. Organizations are living, breathing
organisms, organisms with distinct personalities. They

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have a soulful purpose, which is
the core reason a company exists. And

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the mission is how we express that. The vision is what the world will

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look like in the future when the
soulcil purpose is more fully realized. That

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is a totally different view than what
you just described before about the mechanistic Newtonian

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right, And you know we've talked
about in companies over the years. It's

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a perfect example mission vision and values. But if you listen to the way

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you described it and the way most
people think about it, is a clear

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distinction in the way most people think
of a mission vision of values. It's

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a mechanistic approach. That's the old
paradigm co opting and corrupting new ideas,

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and it just makes it into a
mechanistic approach which has no energy to it,

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no no life to it, no
nothing for people to engage around.

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But if you think about it from
a point of view, if it's it's

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here to create something, to contribute, something, to make a difference,

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and that we're going to take this
journey of making a difference in the world,

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now people get excited about that.
Well, and that's where we get

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to evolution. Right. So you
and I have had a couple of really

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fantastic conversations talking about energy and the
importance of the necessity of change, and

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for me, when you talk about
evolution, you say, which asserts itself

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when a species or system no longer
fits its environment and creates a crisis that

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forces the system to adapt to the
new environment or die. So paint a

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picture for us, Norman, of
how evolution relates to your living organization.

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Well, let's start, you know, to really understand the living organization framework.

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It's really easy to think about you
as a human being and then just

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extrapolate that to a collective of human
beings operating. It's the same context,

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right, So think about how you
change. You're going along just fine.

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You're happy, life's working. There
is absolutely no reason for you to do

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anything different unless you're one of those
few that forces yourself to constantly change.

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But most of us are just happy
if it's working. Don't fix it,

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true, don't break it. Apathy. Yeah, Well, it's called comfort,

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and that's perfectly normal. We all
seek that. So I don't want

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to take anything away from that.
In my life. When I've looked at

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where have I had significant changes,
It's usually come about by a major disruption

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in my life pattern, yes,
right, which causes me an internal dissonance,

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dissatisfaction, something begins to churn,
right, It either comes internally by

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a dissatisfaction or externally by an event
that happens to me. My wife decides

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we should get divorced. Right,
that's there, you go important for me

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too. Yes, Now let's extrapolate
that to an organization. And you see,

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typically when organizations change is when they're
forced to. Facebook comes along and

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completely disrupts our marketing models, the
Internet comes along and completely disrupts how we

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do business. These are evolutionary events. COVID comes along, So these are

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perfect examples. And again it's natural
and it's part of the evolutionary process.

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Why resist it? Why not learn
to say, Okay, COVID's here,

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something needs to change. Let's get
creative and figure out what to do to

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move forward, just like we do
in our personal lives. I say that

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intellectually, I know it doesn't happen
that way. We go through the steps

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of death and dying, the shock, and then we deny, and then

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we get angry, and then we
blame, and then we bargain, and

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then we go through all these things. But eventually to be processed through all

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that, which is really nothing more
than the release of energy. I mean,

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those stages were just releasing the energy
and allowing the old to participate to

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make room for the new. Why
not do that consciously and facilitate quicker movements.

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Quicker change is both on an individual
level in an organization, So embracing

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those things that appear difficult with compassion
for self and others usually helps things move

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along much faster. He's lifting them, of course, not so much,

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not so much. Yeah, well, I want to take that one step

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further room because one of the things
that you've I think said it's probably in

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your book somewhere, but I know
you and I talked about it, which

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extends what you just said, and
it makes it even more profound, is

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you say that changing identity is a
death sentence, and that I find it

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to be arresting and spot on,
so kind of in what you're really saying

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is, in order for us to
move on to the next one, we

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have to let go and let that
other previous identity of ours die away in

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order to make room for something new. And that opens something for me.

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And that's really dramatic. So say
a little bit more about that. Well,

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you know, the Chinese have a
proverb, may you die a thousand

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deaths before you die and not heard
that. It's a beautiful proverb if we

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learn to embrace it. When I
create my sense of self, I invest

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a lot of time and energy in
it over the course of my life.

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It's my sense of identity. It's
who I am right now. If you

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really look inside of you, who
you are is made of a multiple people,

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and when when something changes in our
lives, it usually means that one

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aspect of us is no longer being
called forward. It might even be being

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asked to go sit on the bench. Sometimes that's good, but a lot

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of times we have such a connection
to it. It might even tie us

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to our family roots. My great
great grandfather lived in this place, and

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now the hurricane has come and there's
going to be a sadness, almost like

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some part of my life is dying. That's what I mean. But I

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mean those are just some examples.
I'll give you another one. And my

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mom passed away, there was a
part of me that consciously knew was never

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going to be called forward again,
that I was the baby of the family,

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and whenever my mom called I became
the baby of the family. At

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the age of forty, I was
still the baby of the family, but

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that little boy and me was no
longer going to come forward. And part

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of my sadness that my mom dying
was that part of me was never going

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to come out again. And that's
a loss, that's a death. Organizations

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go through the same thing. Everybody
is used to working with clients in a

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certain way. We've got it all
worked out and everything's cool, and we

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have this wonderful way of dealing with
and selling these products, and then all

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of a sudden, COVID hits and
you're not doing that anymore. And a

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death that's literally the death of a
being. So we got to allow that

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process through, which is the grieving
process, which is mourning, acknowledging it,

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appreciating it, and letting it go. Oh that's so beautiful, Norman,

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all these conversations we have, and
so that brings me the last part,

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the last thing I wanted to talk
about in this segment. Here is

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you focus, and here we are
talking about energy and living beings. And

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so you say, rather than rather
than an organization focusing on profit or money

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making, you said, if we
could change the way business relates to its

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role in society, which is partly
identity to its customers and to its employees.

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We can make a very large and
very real difference. And so then

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you went on to say that even
you in the way that you talk about

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your business, you say, now
when I ask about what the vision of

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Quantum Leaders is the business that you
run, you say, it is to

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transform business around the world into environments
that support and enhance the dignity of the

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human spirit as they collectively express the
spirit in service to society. That is

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so beautiful. Thank you, thank
you. And it's taken me a long

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time. I wrote the book and
published it in twenty eleven, so it's

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nine years out now. And over
the nine years, well, I'll tell

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you this little story John McKay.
You see, you know a whole Foods

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who wrote the forward to my book, and I gave him a copy.

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He said, Norman, now you
get to live what you wrote. Oh

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that's right, most prophetic words.
So for the last nine years I've had

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a look at what's my internal way
of being? What do way I have

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to let go to fulfill the purpose
that I have? And that's been my

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journey for nine years now, and
it continues. I continue to discover it

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mine too, same thing for me, in fact, we have to talk

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about this. You refer to yourself
as the hospice big wife. What does

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that mean? Oh wow? So
I've known for a long time that I

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am just a facilitating a change that's
happening. Regardless if I'm not here,

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it's still going to happen because it's
part of the evolutionary journey. Life is

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morphing, and so we're caught up
in the changing process. And so since

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it's life itself is birthing something,
I look at myself as a midwife.

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I'm facilitating the birthing process that wants
to happen. And that's really what the

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work of Quantum Leads in the Living
Organization is all about. It's a way

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of helping that new way of being, that new way of working come in,

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come into birth, into life.
But at the same time, nothing

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is born without a death change.
Just what we talked about, change does

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not happen with something that we're comfortable
worth going away. So part of my

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journey is to hospice that which needs
to end, and so a lot of

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our work is built around understanding that
and being compassionate with it and storting it

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along. Norman, I'm so grateful
to share you with with our listeners.

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The listeners. What I hope you're
hearing here is I hope you here,

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hope, possibility, inspiration. We're
going to talk more about this. Let's

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put let's grab our first break.
I'm ELISEE. Cortez, your host.

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We're going there with Norman Wolf.
He's the founder and CEO of Quantum Leaders

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and the author of the living organization
transforming business to create extraordinary results. He

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joins today from Vancouver, Washington.
Stay with us, We'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant
specializing in meaning and purpose and inspirational

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speaker and author. She helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop

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purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures
that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment

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within the workforce. To learn more
or to invite Elise to speak to your

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organization, please visit her at a
Leiscortes dot com. Let's talk about how

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to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose with doctor

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Elise Cortes. To reach our program
today or open a conversation with Elise,

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send an email to a lease Alise
at Elisecortes dot com. Now back to

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working on Purpose. Thanks for jing
with us, and welcome back to working

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on purpose if you're just joining us. My guest is Norman Woolf. He's

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the founder and CEO of Quantum Leaders, which is a leading voice in bringing

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about a transformation of the core paradigm
of business. He has a fifteen year

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experience at with Hewlett Packard and has
led and consulted with companies large and small.

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He's the author of The Living Organization, an application of the core principles

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of how the world works and how
organizations can create extraordinary impact. I'm your

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host, doctor Elise Fortes. This
next segment, Norman, I really wanted

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to focus on energy, and energy
is a really amazing thing. You and

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I have talked about that quite a
bit, and I've people oftentimes say to

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me, you're all about energy.
I love your energy, And here you

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are. You've really done something amazing. And I find what you say in

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your book riveting about this. And
you say, if everything is energy,

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which cannot be created or destroyed,
it stands to reason that creating results is

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a process of transforming energy from one
form into the form of our desired results.

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That is so profound. Tell us
more about this notion of energy and

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desired results. Well, if I
look, once I came to the realization

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that organizations are living beings, the
question was how the living beings create outcomes?

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How do I create I've had experiences
where sometimes the outcomes happen so effortlessly,

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even to the point where I forgot
I set that goal, and the

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year later it's like boom, here
it is. And other times I struggle,

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and I struggle and struggle, and
it's what's going on. And that's

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really what I wanted to set out
to accomplish, not only for myself and

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my personal life, but for myself
as a leader of organizations. In consulting

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with leaders of organizations, and what
I concluded was, as part of my

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engineering, mathematic scientific background, if
everything is energy, and energy can't be

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created or destroyed, then obviously what
we're doing is playing with energy. So

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what is that energy? In my
book, I describe three fields of energy,

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the activity, what we do,
and how we do it. That

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makes sense. You know, you
can look at that as kinetic energy.

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You can see it. It's energy
expressed. But there's other energy fields that

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come into play as well, some
lie in they field of potential energy waiting

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to be expressed, and some actively
being expressed. And the other two fields

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is what I call relationship energy.
Relationship energy is the energy of interaction and

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it takes on two meanings for companies. One internal to the company. It's

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the energy with which people interact together. And if you just think about that

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from an energy point of view,
contributing to the production of an outcome.

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If there's harmony within the team,
if the team supports each other, we

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call that synergy. The definition of
synergy is often referred to as two plus

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two weekals five. Right, you
get more out of it. In physics

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term and engineering terms, we've got
two waves energy ways that are in phase

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with each other and so amplified conact, we know what happens with conflict.

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Nothing gets done. Everybody's busy arguing
and vickerying, and nothing's happening. But

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that's two energy waves out of phase
or attenuating down too close to zero,

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so nothing's happening. So again,
from a pure energy perspective, you can

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see the dynamics in an organization being
represented as fields of energy. We're either

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actively focusing our efforts or we're distracted
by conflicting relationships, or we're being supported

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by supportive relationships, and there's more
energy to contribute. The third field of

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energy, and the other part of
relationship energy is external and this we call

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the energy of experience. Now,
there's a lot of talk today about customer

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experience. If you think about what
an experience is, it's really an energy

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that's branded inside the experience of another
human. Again, it's a relationship exchange,

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it's not a transaction. So when
we optimize customer experience, that's very

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different than optimizing customer transactions. And
often we confuse the two because again we

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think in the mechanistic paradigm, also
reoptimize the transaction, the customer will have

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a better experience. That's not the
case. So you look at Starbucks.

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It's a cup of coffee or the
AMPM. Big deal, you buying a

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cup of coffee, spend buck seventy? Why do I spend four dollars and

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fifty cents of Starbucks? It's the
experience. It's the energy of walking into

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that place. It's the energy of
somebody smiling at me. It's the energy

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of being greeted by my name and
somebody remembering what I ordered the last rind

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for some irregular that does something to
me as a human being. The interaction

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the relationship creates a different experience.
You can think of it as in a

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service business easy, But think about
Steve Jobs and his products. He was

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so fanatical about the user experience that
his products weren't the best in the world

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technically, but his products were the
best from a user point of view.

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Is margin went up compared to commodity
products like PC's because of that value of

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the experience. So relationship energy really
key to the outcomes we create. And

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the three that's context. Context is
really best understood as the framework I have

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inside of me. So as an
individual, I hold a context about how

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life works, and it literally defines
one what I see is possible and not

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possible, and two the way I
respond to events that's troupe in my life.

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So it's like an energy pattern that
causes me to filter everything through.

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That causes my responses and my beliefs, and they come out of the stories

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we tell. I won't go I
mean, going into context will take a

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long time. So just to give
you a clip in an organization, the

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same thing happens. An organization has
a contextual field of beliefs about how I

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forwards. It starts with the founder, but then it grows as more and

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more people come into it and it
begins to build a storyline. Like any

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community, it has a way of
being what's important, what do we believe?

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And how do we respond to customers, how do we respond to suppliers,

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how do we respond to each other? And it's often referred to as

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culture. The culture is the expression
of context in our model. Context is

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the belief systems, the underlying call
it psychic DNA or the programming of the

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way we are together, which causes
us to express in what you see as

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our culture. So let me take
this home for our listeners and viewers because

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this is so so important. It's
such an important part of the work that

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you have here, Norman. So
I want to distinguish this. So you

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refer to that as the arc.
So a again for is activity And what

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I wrote down for my notes is
again that's the energy of doing what we

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do. It's linear, its cause
and effect. It's categorized left brain and

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it's mental intelligence IQ. Listeners and
viewers just understand. Just distinguish that.

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Now, contrast that to the r
relationship, which is the energy of interaction,

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and that's who we do it with
communication, empathic patterns, right brain,

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and an emotional intelligence or EQ.
So really really huge. I really

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appreciate how you've got a comprehensive view
of that. And then of course the

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context, which includes the culture.
So I just wanted to make sure that

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our listeners understood because there's so much
meat in that model on Norman, So

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I just want to make sure that
they got it beautiful. All right,

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anything else you want to say that
before I go on into the next thing

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I wanted to talk about, which
is money. Well, yeah, since

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you boil up IQ and EQ,
I like that that's an SQ. Well

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yeah, we're going to talk about
that later. Hold that thought because that

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is so so important. Hold that
thought because we're totally not going to pass

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without talking about that. Okay.
Well, the other thing that you said

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that I just really compelled to me
is you also go on to say that

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all results and even money is energy. That is very intriguing. Tell us

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how well, I'm not the first
one to say that. I think Lynn

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Twist talks about the energy of money. If everything is energy, then everything

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is energy. Some money is energy. So on one level, that's a

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simple explanation. But think it from
from this point. When I'm interacting with

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somebody, whether I'm providing them a
service such as a consulting service or a

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service such as a waitress in a
diner, I'm exchanging something with them.

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I'm giving them something of myself that
they perceive as value, and that contribution

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is energy. Now, if you
translate that to a product, the people

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who help design the product create it. They put their energy into the manifestation

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of that product, creating a certain
value which they are then sharing with somebody.

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Energy has to be balanced, So
if I give you energy, you're

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going to give me energy back in
one form or another. Right, that's

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just the law of nature. So
the process of commerce, if you will,

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is just an exchange of energy,
one type for another, because it

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can't be mad to destroyed. So
I give you a product or a service,

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you give me something in return.
Though it used to be goats of

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sheep or casks of wine or loads
of bread, but that got really cumbersome.

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So we said we'll give you paper, and the paper will represent Now

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we give you bitcoins, so you
don't even have paper anymore. My credit

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card, it will be electrons in
the system. But all we really doing

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is exchanging value for value, and
that's the important thing. And so that's

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really what money is. It's just
an exchange to exchange value in an easier

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way than goats and sheep and milk, cottons and all that cumbersome stuff.

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And even money. Now nobody wants
to handle paper money, medit cards or

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bitcoins or you know some of the
electronic transaction. MM. I think that

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really opens something, Norman. So
when you consider that that money is energy,

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I think that that that gives possibility, It gives a clearing for people.

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So I just really appreciate how you
distinguish that. And then adding on

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to that, you have to talk
about this concept that I'm a so great

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You talk about how we communicate our
messages is really through our own internal state.

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So speaking about energy exchange here and
you say, of course we can

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control this, this this internal state, and how this talk about how this

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concept manifests in in mild and organizations. Will you say more about how it

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is that we communicate through our internal
or it just an interstate either one internal

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state. Think of it as a
state of being right, So and think

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about states of being. Probably easiest
to understand if you think about emotions,

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because emotions carry energy, right,
and the energies cause our bodies to be

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in a certain stake. So think
about what your body feels like when you're

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in a state of anger or frustration. Right the body is usually tense,

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it's got heat to it, I
mean energy. Right now, think about

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your body in a state of watching
a sunset and seeing or seeing a baby

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smiles, being on a beach,
watching the ocean rollin and the sunset over

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the horizon, and all of a
sudden, you're in a state of calm

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and peace and relaxation and everything's okay. And think about what your body feels

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like in that kind of state right
now. If you go into say a

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relationship with somebody, and you're in
a conversation and you're in an angry state

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inside, but you're trying to select
your words carefully, guess what they're going

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to experience, right, They're going
to sense, they're going to feel,

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because what you're transmitting along with the
words, it's this energy that lies within

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you. If I walk into a
room I just had a consultant share with

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me, I was just teaching a
workshop which we just launched, actually a

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pilot was over the summer. We're
going to have the first public one starting

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November three. And I was taking
some consultants through some of the stuff and

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one of the exercises we do is
teach them how to shift the state of

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being so that they enter into a
more what we call heart scented connected place

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with people. And he said,
you know, I was in the conversation.

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I was coaching this executive, the
CEO, and I just shifted myself

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into that state. The CEO did
not know what I was doing. And

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yeah, he said, she changed. And she actually said to me,

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something's different. She opened up and
not only opened up a discompet some new

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things just because he was in a
different state. That's what I mean by

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that statement. It's powerful, powerful
when we become conscious of what state of

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being I'm in when I'm in a
relationship. Again, that goes for individuals,

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teams, companies, organizations, and
it's such a powerful concept. That's

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why I had to have you talk
about it. It really grabbed me for

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a lot of the things that I'm
doing in my personal life and my business.

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So that's beautiful. Norman beautiful.
All right, let's gram our last

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00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:37.920
break. I'm Elie Cortez, your
host. We've run the air with Norman

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00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:42.480
Wolf. He's the founder and CEO
of Quantum Leaders and the author of the

409
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:46.200
living organization transforming business to create extraordinary
results. He joyed today from Vancouver,

410
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:51.880
Washington. Stay with us, We're
right back. Doctor Release Cortes is a

411
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:58.240
management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose
and inspirational speaker and author. She helps

412
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:05.240
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused

413
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:10.480
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn

414
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.759
more or to invite Elise to speak
to your organization, please visit her at

415
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.839
elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about
how to get your employees working on purpose.

416
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:31.279
This is working on Purpose with doctor
Elise Cortes. To reach our program

417
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:37.680
today or open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Aleise Alise at

418
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:51.640
elisecortes dot com. Now back to
working on purpose. Thanks for staying with

419
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:53.200
us, and welcome back to working
on purpose. If you're just tuning in,

420
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:57.200
my guest is Norman Wolf. He's
the founder and CEO of Quantum Leaders,

421
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:00.319
which is a leading voice in bringing
about a transformation of the coreporate I'm

422
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.680
a business. He is a fifteen
year veteran of Hewlett Packard as lead and

423
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:07.599
consulted with companies large and small.
He's the author of The Living Organization,

424
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:10.280
an application of the core principles of
how the world works and how organizations can

425
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:15.679
create extraordinary impact. I'm your host, Aleis Cortes. So for this last

426
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:17.159
segment here before we get into it, I want to I want to share

427
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:22.280
something with you listeners and viewers.
As Norman and I began our conversations a

428
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.280
few months ago, in one of
the conversations, he said, you to

429
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.119
meet my friend Ellie. He said, sometimes I want to talk with you.

430
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.000
I forget that I'm talking to you, and I think I'm talking to

431
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:31.320
her. Just talk to her.
So of course we took you up on

432
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:37.400
that and immediately had an amazing conversation
and we saw why you connected us,

433
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:40.480
and it is about energy. And
I want to share listeners and viewers that

434
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:46.480
Ellie's up to something remarkable. She
is out to create an energy institute and

435
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.840
so she's so if you look for
her, she's in New Zealand. Ellie

436
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.360
Tahar is her name, and I
just wanted to share you when you start

437
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:58.320
and normous at at the beginning,
when you just put yourself out there and

438
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:00.800
you just do it on faith and
now the out of goodness from your interstate,

439
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.639
amazing things happen. So I just
wanted to give her a shot as

440
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.639
to what she's up to the world. It's certainly smacks of this conversation,

441
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.480
so comments before I go on to
the next question. No, Ellie is

442
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:16.760
a wonderful person with a beautiful heart
and really committed to doing wonderful things.

443
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:21.880
And just to kind of grounds for
a little bit. She was a CEO

444
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:25.519
of a farmer company, New Zealand
Farmer and now she's also a CEO of

445
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:36.119
a company that's helping Nepalese women bring
their products to market and she's working magic

446
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:40.199
throughout the whole global supply chain to
help this. She's a beautiful person,

447
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:44.880
she really is. I'm so grateful
that introduced us, and that goes again

448
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:49.400
back to you. Just the notion
of energy and exchange, and I would

449
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.559
say the way to say it is
riding the wave. Yep, right,

450
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:53.440
that's what you and I have been
doing for the last few months. Now

451
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:59.360
here we are together online so or
on air. Okay, So the next

452
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:01.039
thing I want to talk but and
this gets to what we've it'll build and

453
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:04.480
what we've been talking about so far. But you say, and I quote,

454
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.559
experience is the energy that lies underneath
the activities of the interaction of your

455
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:12.800
people, processes and products. It
provides them with an unseen but quite real

456
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:17.280
jolt of energy that either repels or
attracts them to you unquote tell us more

457
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:25.679
about that. Well, you ever
wonder why some companies, well again I

458
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:37.559
use Starbucks or Apple draw a crowd
that becomes almost evangelistic in a mechanistic way

459
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:43.239
of thinking. We try to understand
it by talking about brand identity. I

460
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:47.199
got to tell you, brand is
a byproduct of the energy that people experience,

461
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:53.280
and it goes to this relationship energy
I talked about earlier. It really

462
00:36:53.480 --> 00:37:00.679
is something tangible, and that's why
you can't spin your way through crisis if

463
00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:05.880
you're not authentic. People feel that
energy. They do. I mean,

464
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:13.079
it's just it's so palpable, but
we pretend it's not. And here's here's

465
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:17.119
a perfect example. Go into a
room of people that you have no knowledge

466
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:22.199
about and just stand and observe for
a few minutes. You'll pick up exactly

467
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:28.800
what they're feeling. You'll know you
just sense it. Or walk up to

468
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:32.760
somebody you're close to and you feel
something's wrong and you can just feel it,

469
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.639
and you'll say what's the matter and
they go nothing, and you go,

470
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:43.360
yeah, right, everything's fine.
I'm just okay, I'm just tired.

471
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:47.400
I don't think. So where does
that where does that knowledge, that

472
00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:52.519
awareness come from? Well, it's
it's literally energy. The body is like

473
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:57.440
an antenna in the field of energy
that surrounds us. And when we learn

474
00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:02.239
to tune that antenna to different frequencies, you pick up all sorts of information.

475
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:07.639
When in my HP days we were
told how to do management by wandering

476
00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:20.800
around goes back many many years,
decades and lean operations. They talk about

477
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:24.559
the gimbo walk, which means go
to the place where it's happening. And

478
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:29.199
people think that you just go and
observe. No, you don't just observe

479
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:34.000
with your mind or your eyes.
You observe with your body. You feel

480
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:38.760
what's going on around you, and
there's so much information in that little in

481
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:45.480
that sensing. So this field of
energy that I talk about. Recognizing that

482
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:51.119
it's all energy is just so useful
to really know what's happening. Some people

483
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:53.199
might call it reading people, Well
you can, you can put all sorts

484
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:57.719
of names on it, but just
recognize it's just energy and the bat the

485
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:02.639
body is liwly designed to sense energy, and we trust our experience of the

486
00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:08.920
energy we experienced rather than the words
said that's why people are either authentic or

487
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:15.199
they're not. M Okay, now
we get to go take it another step

488
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:20.079
further and talk about that spiritual quote. You're talking spiritual intelligence. So another

489
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:23.119
really compelling idea is you say,
and I quote the next frontier is to

490
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:29.400
expand our ability to assess one skill
with the use of context energy, spiritual

491
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:32.159
intelligence or s Q. And then
you go on to say company such as

492
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:37.800
Nokia, Unilever, Mackenzie, Shell, Coca Cola, Hewlett Packard, uh

493
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:44.480
merch Pharmaceuticals, and Starbucks are using
models for developing and measuring spiritual intelligence.

494
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:47.119
I was blown away by that,
thrilled to read that. Tell us more

495
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:51.519
about that. Well, as I
said earlier, you know, when I

496
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:58.559
realized that EQ was really in some
ways a measurement of emotional intelligence, I

497
00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:02.960
began to search for so how do
I measure context? Again? I'm a

498
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.280
manager, I'm an executive, I'm
an engineer, So I know the importance

499
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.159
of what you measure is what you
get. So if I can measure activity,

500
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:14.639
we have all sorts of tools for
that. And now that we have

501
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:20.320
this thing called EQ, where we
have some tools to measure emotional intelligence or

502
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:24.320
our ability to relate to each other
and relate to each other's feelings, whether

503
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:30.599
by the s Q, whether by
the emotional spiritual intelligence or context intelligence.

504
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:34.039
At the time I was writing the
book, there was two things happening.

505
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:38.880
One is I read Donald Sohar's book, who wrote a book called Spiritual Capitalism,

506
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:43.320
I think it was or something along
those nights. And at the back

507
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:47.480
of the book she had an assessment
instrument simple I don't remember how many questions

508
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:52.920
twelve questions or twenty questions that gave
you a sense of your spiritual intelligence.

509
00:40:53.920 --> 00:41:00.360
And then I came across a woman
named Cindy Wigglesworth. Throughout this spent yearsloping

510
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:07.000
this assessment instrument she calls SQ twenty
one, which try to measure what she

511
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:14.480
calls spiritual intelligence. I have some
I don't use the word spiritual intelligence as

512
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:19.280
much now as I used to because
it carries some baggage, unfortunately, and

513
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.039
I unfortunately it's just sort of a
reality. A lot of people hear the

514
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:29.440
word spiritual intelligence and they kind of
rebel against it. So let me break

515
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:35.960
down what spiritual intelligence really is.
It's really a degree of maturity. If

516
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:39.199
you think about what it means to
be mature over time, and the easiest

517
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:43.960
way to think of it as contrast
to a young child two to five years

518
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:51.280
old, a teenager mid the late
twenties, early thirties, midlife forties,

519
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:55.519
fifties, and then a senior elder
seventies, eighties, nineties, and what

520
00:41:55.679 --> 00:42:00.599
you see as a pattern of maturity
hopefully right, that's part of our goal.

521
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.280
And when you look at that,
you'll see a pattern of me and

522
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.800
mine and now right, real tight, and I only care about myself in

523
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:15.800
the very young and it begins to
expand in terms of a sense of who

524
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:20.079
I am and how I relate to
the world, and I can handle more

525
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:24.360
different points of view. I've become
more solid in my point of view,

526
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:30.760
but less rigid about it, less
defensive, less dogmatic about it. I

527
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.960
have an ability to both be in
a relationship with my own point of view

528
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:39.199
and with other people's points of view. I can handle uncertainty and complexity more

529
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:44.480
because I have more experiences that tell
me I'll be okay. Okay, things

530
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:46.280
are happening, but that's okay.
I've been through this before, and I

531
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:51.119
don't die or I die and reborn. However you want to look at it

532
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:59.760
based on our earlier conversation. So
spiritual intelligence as measured by Cindy's SQ twenty

533
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:05.239
one is really giving you indicators or
where you are in relationship to values and

534
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:08.519
the way you live them and the
way you can appreciate other people's values.

535
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:15.039
So if EQ is how you relate
to feelings and emotions of other people,

536
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:20.639
SQ is about values and how we
relate to our own and to others.

537
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:25.840
And I say values, I should
say values believes core assumptions, and how

538
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:32.719
fluid and flexible are we about posts. So SQ being coming more and more

539
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:39.159
recognized as vital still in its early
days, It's only been ten twelve years

540
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:43.719
now. If you look at EQ, it took about twenty years before EQ

541
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:49.119
actually got it more and more mainstream, and even today people are still discovering

542
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:53.360
it. So I suspect in the
future you'll have SQ and EQ as part

543
00:43:53.480 --> 00:44:00.760
of the way we evaluate or I
hate evaluate feedback to people to help them

544
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:07.400
grow. That's the way I like
to look at these tools. Well,

545
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:09.239
I really appreciate reading that I had
never heard of this before. And of

546
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:15.559
course this show is really a thought
leadership platform that stewards the conversation toward advanced

547
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.599
meaning and purpose in the workplace.
Because really what I'm out to do,

548
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:22.079
Norman, is to help leaders create
a workplace where people actually want to come

549
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:27.079
to and they can thrive, and
we can start to talk about notions of

550
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:31.360
spirituality in the workplace and certainly and
as an organization, and that organizations are

551
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:37.199
living, breathing beings that needed to
need to be continually nurtured and grown and

552
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:42.159
to evolve. Well, that's why
I wanted to have you on the show,

553
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:45.840
because you steward that conversation, You
advance that conversation. Me can I

554
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:51.360
just jump in and they have one
thing to what you just said. And

555
00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:55.960
I say this in my book late
towards the end of the book, since

556
00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.280
we're changing the paradigm. One of
the things I paid attention to is the

557
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:05.760
new role of leader. And so
in the machine paradigm or the machine world

558
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:08.559
view, we look at the leader's
role as plan, lead, organize,

559
00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:15.880
and control. Fundamentally, the leader
decides what the machine is supposed to do.

560
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:19.000
Program is the machine, so to
speak, and people execute it.

561
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:22.840
In the new paradigm, the leader
shifts. They were all from plan,

562
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:29.280
organized, lead, and control to
set the context because the context is a

563
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:34.360
defining feel and it helps guide everything
else. Develop the people. And when

564
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.280
I say develop the people, I
really should say develop the organization, because

565
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:45.920
you're developing the collective body and both
the capabilities and its maturity, so you're

566
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:54.719
developing the whole living being. Build
community because community builds a sense of belonging,

567
00:45:54.760 --> 00:46:00.599
which is one of the three innate
needs of human beings. Belong contributing,

568
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:07.280
and growing other three innate needs of
human beings. So build community where

569
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.599
they feel a sense of belonging,
and where customers feel like they belong.

570
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:15.039
Be of service, which is a
way of giving to the society something of

571
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:21.559
value, where you're enhancing society overall. So those are the four responsibilities.

572
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:24.840
I was giving that speech early on
when I was just introducing the book to

573
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:29.920
the world and somebody in the back
I remember saying, wait a minute,

574
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:35.920
that's what religious leaders do. I
stopped me. It literally stopped me,

575
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:40.639
and I said, you know,
you're right. Perhaps the CEOs of the

576
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:46.440
future will be the spiritual leaders of
our society. And I actually wrote that

577
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:52.159
at the end of the book too, so I you know where you're going,

578
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:54.719
what you're doing with purpose and meaning. That's that's at the core of

579
00:46:54.880 --> 00:47:00.599
context is the expression of our purpose
and meaning of energy and giving its shape,

580
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:07.119
and that's so important. And I
do hope that spirituality, the essence

581
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:10.079
of spirituality, which is to grow
and develop and contribute them to it,

582
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:17.559
to life, becomes a reason company's
success. I do too, Norman,

583
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:21.360
and that's absolutely why I get up
in the morning and do what I do,

584
00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:23.639
and I look for people like you
to come on the show to advance

585
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:28.639
this conversation. And as you know, I use the show's platform really as

586
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:31.599
a way to catalyze my ongoing thinking, growing learning. As you and I've

587
00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:36.840
shared, each of us recognize that
we are on an ongoing journey. Everyone

588
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:40.519
is, and then the opportunity is
to get present to that and be ingratitude

589
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:44.920
about it and let it carry you
along which I hope listeners and viewers that

590
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:46.800
you've got from this conversation, and
I hope that you're all feeling elevated by

591
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.159
this conversation. I certainly did.
The moment I met you, Norman,

592
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:53.599
I felt elevated, touched by an
angel. And then when I read your

593
00:47:53.639 --> 00:48:02.360
book, I felt slightly smarter,
only slightly smarter than a contribution. I've

594
00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:07.760
given something to society. You absolutely
did. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and

595
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:12.440
I really appreciate very much that you
wrote the book and you're here sharing it,

596
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:15.599
sharing some of the high points of
it. And with that, here

597
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:19.320
we are at the close of the
show already so knowing that our show is

598
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:23.320
listened to buy people across the globe
who are interested in the notion of increased

599
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:31.119
meaning per passion in workplace. What
was with liver listeners with today, go

600
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:36.840
on a journey and be courageous.
Begin to look at the organization as a

601
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:40.920
living being, a child. If
you're a leader a positive sense of a

602
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.800
child, a young adult. Let's
say that your job is to help them

603
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:52.840
mature and to contribute to society.
Put on that perspective to start with,

604
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:57.880
a lot of things will shift for
you. That is so beautiful, Norman,

605
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:00.480
Thank you so much for a beautiful
finish for your beauty full soul.

606
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:02.320
It's great to be able to share
you with my listeners and viewers. Thank

607
00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:06.880
you for being on working on purpose
my pleasure. Thank you for having me

608
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.599
absolutely listeners and viewers. If you
want to learn more about Normal Wolf,

609
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:13.639
his book The Living Organization, or
the work he and his team are doing,

610
00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:17.519
go to Quantum leaders dot com.
Last week if the miss the If

611
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:21.000
you miss the live show, you
can always catch up be recorded podcast.

612
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:24.039
We were on the air with Australian
Rob Bruce, the founder of Go all

613
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movement course and past talking about you
Guessed it, what it takes to go

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all in and left to get the
results that you want. Next week will

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be taking a totally to return than
we have in most of these shows.

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We're talking with a previous guest named
Danny Gutnek and we'll be turning the tables

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and he'll be interviewing me to showcase
the technique of essence my name, so

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we'll be showcasing my journey to purpose. See you there. Remember that works

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at least of thir our life.
So let's work on Purpose. We hope

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you've enjoyed this week's program. Be
sure to to tune into Working on Purpose,

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featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on the Voice America

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00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:12.960
Empowerment Channel. Together, we'll create
a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership

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inspires impassioned performance, and employees are
fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and

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purpose they crave. See you there, Let's Work on Purpose.