Business Leadership for a Human-Centric Future

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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working on purpose. Now Here is
your host, Doctor Elise Cortez. Welcome

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back to the Working and Purpose Program. If you're tuning in again this week,

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I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez
Johin. You live from Dallas,

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which is home base for me.
If you don't know me yet, I'm

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a nation of consultant specializing and Meaning
and Purpose organizational, local therapist, inspirational

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speaker, social scientist, and author. I help organizations develop their team and

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inspirational leaders and career cultures for people
actually want to come to work and do

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their best. I provide programs like
the Grab Your Gusto that enable individual team

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members to discover and unleash their passion
and purpose at work. To catalyze fulfillment,

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engagement, and productivity. You can
learn more about me and how we

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can work together at Alis Cortes dot
com or Gusto Dashnow dot com. Mek

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let me think, my partner and
sponsor work Proud, we are a perfect

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collaboration. Everybody wants to know they
matter and that the work they do is

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meaningful and appreciated. Work Proud helps
companies to do justus that through their mobile

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platform that is built to encourage employees
to share stories and recognize each other's contribution.

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Work Proud empowers hr and business leaders
to help create company cultures where all

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employees are inspired to feel proud of
their work and proud of their company.

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Learn more about work Proud and the
recent study they've commissioned about pride in the

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work at work proud dot com.
You can actually then click on the button

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there to actually get your copy of
the paper. With us today is Debra

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Westfall, who is an executive advisor, futurist, and author of Convergence,

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Technology, Business and the Human Centric
Future. Hercur spands more than thirty years

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and virtually every continent. A passionate
humanist and lifelong learner, she has a

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guided government and corporate leaders to challenge
biases, ignite ideas, and build a

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resilience for our secure future. We'll
be talking today about the stature of this

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day, of today's business and the
need for and benefits of moving to a

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human centric future. She joges to
Day from Salt Lake City. Debrett,

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Welcome to work on Purpose. Thank
you so much. I'm very excited to

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be here. At least I'm glad, you know. As I said,

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you know, I love getting to
be the host. And you know I've

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read your book cover to coverage of
gorgeous book, well, extremely well written

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to It's clearly very clear to me, my dear, that you are wicked,

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smart and passionate. I like that
combination. Thank you. I appreciate

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the compliment, and I really appreciate
you reading the book. Thank you very

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much. You're so welcome. I
always like to say when somebody says they

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listen to my show, I always
say, so you're the one spelling that

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with a book through right. So
one of the things that I immediately caught

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my eye what I was reading your
book is you say, in some ways

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it's thirty years in the thinking.
So if that's so, then Debora.

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Why now why this book? Now, Well, the thirty years was my

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journey and my journey from uh,
you know, being an engineer and young

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NBA student thinking that you know,
systems and structure and organizational design was key

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to a successful business, to really
understanding that it's it's humans that are the

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key to success. And so that
was the thirty years. Why now we

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are in the middle, you know, we're just stepping into the information age.

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We're very it's very new, and
and a lot of our assumptions about

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how things work, how business work
are are probably outdated and we just really

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don't realize that. And and so
it is it is a key time to

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start really thinking about this in a
very different way. And this is business,

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it's relationship with people, and what
are we going to do with all

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this advanced technology we're developing. I
have been saying since the beginning of the

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pandemic, this was a perfect time
to really look and evaluate all of your

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systems, especially in any system that
touches a human being in your organization,

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to see which ones, which would
be many of them need to be thrown

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out entirely or reinvented. And I
do want I can't wait. We talk

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about your idea of opsilessage later on
so important. So before we get to

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that, though, I want to
just start with the premise of the way

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you've created this book. I think
it's so clever what you did, and

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I love clever analogies that elucidate ideas, and so I'd love to hear how

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you came up with the idea of
your three part of an analogy of the

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book between the Glopicos, ocean currents, and technology, business and people.

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Sure, it was on a trip
actually to the glopicas I heered up cause

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and if and if you've ever been
there, it's it's an amazing place.

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It's a set of you know,
some seventy different islands that are volcanoes are

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making new islands almost every day,
and each island is very unique. Some

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are big, some are small.
But what is key to the Galapagos Island

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is this really interesting, you know, convergence of of ocean currents that are

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coming from the north and the west
and from the south that bring nutrients and

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perfect weather and just that combination to
let the animals and the plant life and

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everything thrive. And it was on
a trip about eighteen months ago that I

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it was like, you know what
this is like business, This is the

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business environment. There are these currents
that are happening that when they're in perfect

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balance, it creates an environment for
businesses to thrive and be successful and be

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created. If the currents become out
of balance, just like in the islands,

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it will put in danger the life
forms that live there, And that

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is the same with business. If
we allow business or the purpose of business

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or technology to kind of create an
imbalance with what we're doing for people,

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then it will put in harm our
business too, beautifully said, and I

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just thought that was so clever how
I came up with that analogy, especially

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within the name of your book Convergence. Okay, so next, then let's

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let's contrast what you talk about is
the old universal business laws and what you

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see is I needed in today's business
world. You know, modern business.

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The business that we know today is
it's taken us what sixty seventy years to

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create. We've gone through globalization and
industrialization, and you know, all the

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things that we've learned over those seventy
eighty years have been fine tuned for efficiency

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and effectiveness for a very different day, a very industrial globalization, mass production

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perspective, those laws, if you
would, those things that we know and

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have learned and have experienced over those
past decades or passed down from generation to

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generation on how to run business are
no longer in some cases relevant for an

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information age. We are globalized,
we are highly connected, we have this

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advanced technology and to fine tune efficiency
and effectiveness for business. There's there's something

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greater here that we need to step
back and look at. And that's said,

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you know, that's where I made
that statement about it's time to do

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that. It's time to realize where
we're at well. And then and within

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that, you would talk specifically about
the human energy variable, which is interesting

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for me because my whole world,
between meaning and purpose, it's all about

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activating and elevating that energy from individuals
inside organizations. So say more about this

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human energy and variable piece. You
know, technology has allowed us to connect

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to almost everybody on the planet,
and soon we will be able to connect

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with all the infrastructure and communication infrastructure
that's being put in the world. And

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what it's done is it's allowed people
to connect to like people, to have

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discussions and share dreams and hopes and
fears, and and so you know this

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this power shift, if you would, to people and the voices and their

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desires have created this. This human
energy has unleashed it. I mean,

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we've always had that inside of us, but it's unleashed it in a way

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that it is more of a human
system that needs to be paid attention to.

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And you know, it's inside our
organizations, it's outside of our organizations,

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and it's it's a very powerful thing
when we really stand back and look

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at what's inside an individual and what
they would like to achieve. Just unleash

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that for your business, and and
that will ignite the business. You're singing

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my song, totally sing my song. I'm right there with you. Oh,

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as we were sort of talking about
before we got an air together.

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When I was reading your book,
I just kept going, consciousness is so

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sounds to me like stakeholder capitalism,
conscious capitalism. How would you distinguish how

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your human centric opposed to business of
leadership is different or distinguished from those those

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you know, it's not different,
it's additive. And you know under that

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definition of kind of stakeholder capitalism,
you know, it's look at your employees,

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you know, pay attention to your
employees, or your suppliers or your

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customers. And then the communities that
you operate in, where I expanded is

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humanity because we are in this time
of hyper connectiveness that you know, even

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if you operate in a very regional
or localized community, your impact is probably

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regional or global. And then we
have companies that are already global, that

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are in thousands of communities that you
know, you almost have to redefine community

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to be humanity. And what do
I mean by that? You can take

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environmental impact as as a problem of
humanity or an opportunity that the businesses need

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to pay attention to. So it's
an additive, it's not distinguished, and

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it's it's trying to you know,
expand expand that definition. You know what

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I saw in it, And it's
kind of what you were just saying before.

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Is I feel like what you're doing
as yet, you know, it's

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not different, it's it's an expansion, but it's also like a honing in

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on that human energy piece, right, So you're really seems like you're really

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at your intent on activating, you
know, the promise of each individual,

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which I am too. Would you
say that's right? Yeah? I think

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so. And you know so many
times when you when when people use stakeholder

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inside of business, they define it
as customer and and then they segment customer

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and it's really the people that buy
their products. It's not those other people

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that maybe you're impacting with some business
process that you're you're doing or you know,

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long term, uh you know,
impact on because of how you manage

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your water or you know, you're
how you're polluting the world, or how

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you're looking at diversity or and inclusion
as a as a whole problem, not

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just inside your your organization. So
I you know, stakeholder to me has

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almost been hijacked as a word because
it's really about customer and that hones in

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very, very narrowly that I don't
think represents what advocates like yourself are trying

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to do, which is we need
to look at a broader sense of people

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and what we're doing and the impact. And you know, to that end,

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I as you know, I'm on
the board of the Dallas Conscious Capitalism

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Group, and on September twenty fourth, I'll be facilitating for a group basically

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a stakeholder mapping exercise where we are
actually digging into each of those respective communities,

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the customers, the suppliers, the
community, the employees, investors,

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right, so really trying to really
understand deeply their needs, their interest,

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how they're connected, what's in it
for them to be part of, you

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know, yourship if you will be
on yourship. So completely agree with you

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that that term has been really really
been overutilized and therefore it's not as valuable

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as it used to be. You
know, there's so many kind of hidden

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stakeholders that we don't we don't recognize
or we don't analyze because it's a new

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thing. I mean, an example
I'd like to use is, you know,

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there's a thought that says, well, if we put everything on the

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internet and we do everything virtually,
this will be great. We won't have

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to travel, we won't have to
get in our cars, we can bring

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down the carbon emission. But in
honesty, you know, all honesty,

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the Internet is you know, it's
if it was a country. It's the

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sixth most populating country in the world. You know, more internet, more

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data means more data centers. More
data centers mean more energy. And so

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if we continue on the way we're
doing with with just you know that virtual

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and data and such. The Internet. You know that those global data centers,

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you know, will be the fourteenth
largest carbon emission in the world by

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twenty thirty four, and we don't
think about that. We don't think about

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that as a stakeholder. And that's
kind of the call to action here is

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we need a new set of tools
and mental models for thinking about who is

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our stakeholder. Very insightful. I
love that depth. That's very insightful.

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So what I want to do next
to I want to read a short little

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passage that I think will be music
to not just the ears of mind as

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I read it, but also to
our listeners. And then how you comment

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on it. It's beautiful, you
say, what's let me start more?

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I got a story. So the
piece in your word that has got been

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used. Okay, So you say, the reality is with technology becoming more

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and more ubiquitous, people are becoming
more important, not less. Only humans

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can bring the energy, the emotional
electricity that transforms companies, governments, and

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society into force is capable of accomplishing
extraordinary things. Amen, that's of course

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it, thank you. Yeah,
that's right. Because we feel we have

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compassion, we have empathy, we
we have goals. We we have families

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that we want a better future for. And you know technology, you know,

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there's there's probably a whole larger conversation
about algorithms and and kind of what

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they are and what they're not,
and you know the dangers and the opportunities.

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But technology is not a panacea.
It's not going to solve everything if

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you take the heart and soul out
of what we're what we're doing, and

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that's really what people. People are
inside your organizations as well as outside your

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organizations. Beautiful them and on that. Let's take our first break. I'm

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your host doctoral these quartets. We're
on the air with Deborah west Fall,

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who is the author of Convergence,
Technology, Business and the Human Centric Future.

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We've been talking a bit about why
should write wrote the book and what's

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going on in today's world. To
the right, we're going to get into

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the state of today's business that so
requires the work that she's doing today.

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Stay with us, we'll be right
by Doctor Release Cortez as a management consultant

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specializing in meaning and purpose and inspirational
speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer

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for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that

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elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment
within the workforce. To learn more or

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to invite a lease to speak to
your organization, please visit her at Elise

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Cortez dot com. Let's talk about
how to get your employees working on purpose.

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This is Working on Purpose with doctor
Elise Cortez. To reach our program

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today or open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise ali Se

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at Elise Cortez dot com. Now
back to working on Purpose. Thanks for

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stating with us, and welcome back
to working on Purpose. Before we get

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into the program, I'd like to
invite you to check out my book Purpose

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Ignited, How Inspiring Leaders Ignite Passion
and All that Cause, which is on

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Amazon now. I wrote that book
to awakened readers to their passion and purpose

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and help transform them into inspirational leaders
who enliven the workplace and elevate the contribution

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of business to all its stakeholders.
I use this content as a basis for

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my Inspirational Leadership and Grab your Gust
Too programs. If you're just joining the

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program. My guest today is Deborah
Wespall, who is an executive advisor,

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futurist, and author of Convergence,
Technology, Business and the Human Centric Future.

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She joinses a day from Salt Lake
City under host doctor Leis Cortez.

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So, Dad, before we get
into the state of business, I want

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to go back real quick and cover
that one last piece around technology that I

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wanted to get before the break,
because it's so beautifully written, and I

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think you are so uniquely capable of
rendering this the way that you bid.

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So you're wrote in your book.
We think about technology as applications, interfaces,

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and most often gadgets. That perception, while accurate, is profoundly limiting.

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Technology is perhaps some most concrete manifestation
of human consciousness evolving since the first

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stone chopping tool emerging nearly two million
years ago. Categorically, it encompasses the

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entirety of the human made artifacts that
facilitate, facilitated, and in some cases

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represented human evolution. Gorgeous, thank
you, thank you. It is as

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it's a symbiotic relationship. It's you
know it. We there's things that we

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need to do, that we want
to do, that we desire for a

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better future, better life, and
we develop technology to do that, you

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know, and then by using that
technology, we learn, we unlearn and

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relearn, and and it is it
is something that is human driven. It's

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not something to be feared. But
I think that's you know, that's kind

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of where we're at right now as
we're relearning. And that's why the human

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part of this, the people's side, takes precedence, and it always takes

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precedence. I really felt that it
would give access and I think it read

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positions or reframes technology in a way
that people can celebrates and as you say,

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not be afraid of. And I
really wanted to showcase that. I

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just thought it was gorgeous. So
yes, thank you, You're welcome.

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And before we get further into the
state of the business stuff, I have

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to ask you about your travelers,
your travels. I love to travel too,

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and you talk in your book about
your trucks to Antarctica, truck and

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Kilimanjaro. You've been to Bhutan,
which was on my list until I was

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I was going to run a race
in Bhutan last year. We know what

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happened, so I'm interested to know
how those experiences have contributed to what how

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you see the world or business.
You know, the travel is probably you

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do too. You go to all
these places, you go to the museums,

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and you eat their few food.
But what is to me the most

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amazing is the people and their culture
and having those conversations. And when you

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have those conversations with people in those
countries, you finally, I think,

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you realize that we're more the same
then we're different. And and to me,

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I just I that, to me
is the most exciting part about about

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traveling is is knowing that you know
the same things that I want for my

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family and goals. They are too. They're different experiences, but we're very

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much the same. M you're reminding
me to I've spoke at a conference in

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Malaysia in August of twenty eighteen,
I think it was or seventeen. I

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can't remeber which ones. But what
was so amazing about that is I told

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you before we got on the air
that I love languages, and I speak

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five different languages, and when I
was in Malaysia, I used all of

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them, and which is Spanish,
Portuguese, French and Italian and of course

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English. And what was so great
is I hearing him in this beautiful country

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and I'm meeting all those other people
who I can talk with, because that's

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my my leverage point, that's my
segue, if you will. And the

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connection is so powerful and so profound. Anyway, So I love what for

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me travel. It teaches me so
much about life, so and myself and

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myself and myself. I've learned so
much about myself traveling that I think is

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very important. Me too, Me
too. You said something in the book

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that I well, it did a
lot of things in the book that I

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didn't know, but this one here
that's really striking to me. And I

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want to say that few people probably
know this or recall this either, and

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that is that you say business was
more benevolent until the nineteen eighties when it

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began to move away from civic belief
and move more towards serving the shareholder,

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which of course we all know today
is very prominent. So what caused the

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shift towards shareholder primacy? You know, it's probably it was, you know,

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the raising voices. But there was
a gentleman, Milton Freeman, who

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was very economist, and it was
very influential. And again it was in

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the time that we were industrializing and
we were globalizing, and then you have

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this economist come in and say,
you know what, the sole purpose for

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business is to maximize shareholder profit and
that is the only reason for business.

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And so focus your you know,
focus your attention, because your energy,

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focus your organization structure on doing that, and you'll be successful. You know,

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in some cases he was right for
the time, but now you know

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that is what what is different about
today is we are globalized. And so

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that's what I meant by in the
book. And you know, the challenge

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for people now is to realize how
we got here and to challenge whether or

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not those those same things are good
going forward. Well that's why, of

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course, as we talked about,
I'm very much a champion for conscious capitalism

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and stakeholder capitalism and doing business that
betters the world such a it's a bigger

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reach when you say we want to
I want to help the world and want

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to help people rather than just make
money. Right to me, that's really

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kind of hollow. Money is great, it's so important. We can do

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a lot of things with money,
but when it's powered by passion and purpose,

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it's just such a better end,
you know. It's it's interesting because

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I've been asked if if I'm anti
business and if I'm anti capitalism and quite

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the opposite, I'm very pro business. Business has so much power they have,

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you know, so much innovation and
capability within their people and experiences and

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technology that they can spend that to
do something broader. And it's been proven,

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uh, you know in a lot
of cases that if you take this

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broader perspective, you're actually going to
be a better, stronger, more successful

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business. Oh yeah, I've in
my literature, I find over and over

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that investors are looking for purpose driven
businesses to invest in because they return a

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better return on investment. So yeah, so I'm sure we could find examples

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of companies that maybe aren't performing as
well when they're purpose driven. But boy,

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when you're operating well and focus on
how to serve more people better really

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works pretty well. So yeah,
it's hard to motivate your workforce if all

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it is is about let's make more
money it you know, the motivation comes

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with something that touches the heart,
and that's what that purpose driven means.

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Yeah. Yeah, And so to
that end, one of the other things

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that I found really profoundly interesting about
your book that I did not know about.

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Of course, I know about the
quarter driven system of Wall Street,

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which I do take issue with.
But so what you taught me in your

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book though that I didn't know about, was I was thrilled to learn about

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Eric Greece who launched in twenty fifteen
the Long Term Stock Exchange, which of

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course is the first national securities exchange
promoting a long term focus on for investors

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and companies. So that's fascinating.
I did go and look it up,

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by the way, since you brought
that up, But tell us more about

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this. You know, it's it's
hard to take this longer view at some

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of the problems that need to be
addressed. If you're having to maximize for

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the week or the month or the
quarter, your whole decision decision making process

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is very different. And so by
taking a long view and having being more

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patient, if you would, you
can take on other opportunities. You can

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take on more these uh, these
opportunities to solve you know, bigger problems

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for people. And so having that
kind of support from investors, which you

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know, we there's others too that
you know, the whole business round table

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and and and you know black Rock
CEO saying hey, we need to we

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need to start focusing on the long
term. Having that future focus and that

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longer term will allow a very different
decision making process. Yeah, and listeners

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and viewers, if you don't know
what Dever's talking about, and she talked

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about it in her book. I
talked about it in my book as well.

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That in August of the nineteen that
one hundred and eighty one ceo as

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signed the Business Roundtable Statement saying that
we're moving away that the purpose of an

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organization is to serve all stakeholders and
not just shareholders. Essentially, that was

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what the statement said. Do I
have that right? Yes? It did.

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And now the trick is how do
we do that? Because again,

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our businesses today have been structured around
a very different kind of purpose, which

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is maximizing shareholder profit and being very
efficient and effective in doing that. Now

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the challenge for those those leaders are, Okay, how are we going to

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do that? And we're seeing in
progress. And also I wanted to call

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out since you had introduced me to
this long term stock exchange. I went

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and did some digging on Eric Rease. I found a video and I also

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found some news and I did notice
that he's listed two companies now, a

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software company called Twilio and Asana as
of just this year, So I don't

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know if you know anything about either
of those, but I thought that was

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fantastic to hear. Yeah, and
you know, I it's new and we'll

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see what they do for the long
term. But I think it's just very

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exciting that we have support and financial
support to be taken this longer view.

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Me too, I think it's incredibly
encouraging and definitely a good direction to pursue

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and flesh out. So okay,
so the next thing I want to I

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want to treat here with us is
your your new term that I believe you

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have. You have created obsolesceage.
Thank you for that, by the way,

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It's just yummy. But I found
it delightful and also profound. And

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it seems that what you're you're you're
stepping into the note that we're learning so

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much faster these days with human knowledge, Doublin, you say every thirteen months,

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but we fail to consider which of
those additional knowledge inputs a quarter of

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a time should be kept and utilized. That is quite interesting in you,

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as a woman who started off and
engineering and know quite a lot about data.

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That really strikes me as pretty found
pretty profound for us to talk about.

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So tell us more about this obsolescage
and what we can do about it.

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Yeah, and obsoletion, it's it's
obsolete knowledge, right, it's you

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know, we're creating knowledge at the
speed of heat right now, and and

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sometimes it's useful knowledge. Sometimes it's
it's it's absolutely useful, but we never

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stop stop and consider, well,
what do we what's obsolete now? Uh

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An is easy one for me to
think about because I am that old.

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Is when I went through high school, there were nine planets. We don't

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have nine planets anymore more in our
Solar system. We have eight, and

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we have a mini planet, Pluto
became a mini planet. And so you

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know, if you don't stop and
think about what we know in whether or

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not it's relevant anymore, if we
learn new things, then we have it's

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almost like this garbage dump, you
know, our a messy garage that has

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all this stuff in it that makes
it very very hard to to manage in

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an efficient way. And so obsolete
obsolete knowledge also includes our obsolete beliefs and

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biases about how things work and how
the world works. Well, and I

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can remember to your point, app, I think I can remember I believed

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I learned, and you and are
probably similar in age. I believe I

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learned that only men could be color
blind. My daughter is color blind,

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right, I'm pretty sure I learned
that in school, and we no longer

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know that to be true. Right, So that's that's an example of having

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to weed out and get rid of
obsolete knowledge that is no longer correct or

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served. I remember very clearly,
we were driving to school and she's and

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I said, that's interesting. Why
would they make that flashing light like police

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cars? She's like, what are
you talking about? That's pink? What

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are you talking about? So,
and she'd been trying to tell me that

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she was coming blind, but I
told her emphatically, she can't be because

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she's she's not male, you know. So there's a gage example, right,

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And these things get in our way, right, they get in our

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way about how I mean, how
many times do we we hear that in

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today's in our organizations today? That
will never work? We tried that,

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yes, you know, we tried
that twenty years ago. That will never

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00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:56.279
work. It doesn't work that way, right, And these things are just

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they're obsolete and they're no longer u
ful to us to have these beliefs.

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Yeah, they're limiting and they could
be actually devastating to your livelihood and success.

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00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:08.680
Why so much, why I wanted
to talk about that depth, So

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00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:12.039
thank you. So On that note, let's grab our last break. I'm

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at least Cortez your host. We've
got in the air with Deborah Westfall,

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who is the author of Conversions,
Technology, Business, and the Human Centric

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00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.680
Future. We've been talking about the
state of business today. After the break,

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00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.079
we're going to get into moving to
human centric leadership. Staying with us,

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00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.920
We'll be right back. Doctor Release
Cortez is a management consultant specializing in

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00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:36.680
meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker and
author. She helps companies visioneer for greater

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purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

402
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:48.440
performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

403
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:52.440
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at a lease Cortez

404
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:56.640
dot com. Let's talk about how
to get your employees working on purpose.

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00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:08.480
This is working on purpose with doctor
Elise Cortez. To reach our program today

406
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:15.480
or open a conversation with Elise,
send an email to Elise ali se at

407
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:22.400
Elise Cortez dot com. Now back
to Working on Purpose. Thanks for staying

408
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:25.000
with us, and welcome back to
Working on Purpose. One other bit of

409
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.880
news that I have to share with
you is that the anthology I've been curating

410
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.400
for the last two years is about
to be released in just a matter of

411
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.039
days. It's a collection of twenty
five stories of women from around the world

412
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.279
who share their intimate stories and all
the messy details that come with discovering their

413
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:41.720
purpose and how they're serving crement today. So I'm so proud of us,

414
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:45.400
i could just bust. And So
the anthology is called Passionately Striving and Why,

415
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.440
an anthology of women who persevere mindily
to live their purpose. And it's

416
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:51.640
on Amazon now, So thank you
for your support in advance for reading it.

417
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:53.640
If you're just joining us, my
guest is Deborah Wespall, who is

418
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:57.839
an executive advisor, futurist and author
of Convergence of Technology, Business and the

419
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.039
Human Centry Future. To join to
Day from Salt Lake City. I'm your

420
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:06.599
host, Alice Cortez. So now
we want to get into this whole idea

421
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:08.920
of human centric leadership, and as
we do. I thought it was so

422
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:15.279
delightful that when when I read your
definition, I realize that your definition of

423
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:19.160
leadership aligns quite nicely with mine in
the inspirational camp. So you say,

424
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:23.599
leadership is the fundamental ability to behave
with humility and wisdom, to engage authentically,

425
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:28.279
and to inspire others toward achieving a
purpose they might never accomplish on their

426
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:34.200
own. Yes, ma'am, Yes, I I'm excited to hear that you

427
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:38.119
think the same thing. And it's
I think in a lot of cases that's

428
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:45.160
not shared. Unfortunately. I think
it's still kind of an old mental model

429
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:49.920
of what leadership is that they are
there at the top. They should know

430
00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:53.640
all the answers, you know,
they make all the decisions. And I

431
00:32:54.680 --> 00:33:00.400
don't know how leaders can do that
in a world that's become very, very

432
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:05.319
complex. You need everybody's you know, all hands on deck on this and

433
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:10.079
so open that aperture and and really
take instead of being at the top of

434
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:16.279
a pyramid, being at the bottom
and uh and helping others achieve their greatness

435
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:22.279
and support the organization well and beyond
all that. Right, what we what

436
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:27.960
will become in doing so is two
things irresistible and impactful. Yeah, and

437
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:32.920
and and bringing our authentic self also
gives hope and courage I think to others

438
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:38.160
to to really that may not in
you know, in other situations, may

439
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:44.000
not bring all that, And I
think that is that to me. You

440
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:46.039
know, it's so interesting to be
where I'm at in my career, and

441
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:53.240
because I do have people that reach
back after decades and say, you know,

442
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.119
boy, remember when and this was
twenty years ago, and they thought

443
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:04.799
enough of me to tell me that
I made an impact in their life and

444
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:07.280
in their career. And I think
that's very fulfilling. It is. And

445
00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:10.440
you know, as you've heard me
say before, everybody wants to matter,

446
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.599
right and as a leader, we
really get to matter to people's lives.

447
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.039
And so if you get to be
the person that helps someone literally step into

448
00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:22.039
and reach into their sign, how
amazing is that? Right? That's my

449
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:24.159
call to action for anybody listening,
and right now, that's what I would

450
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:27.400
ask of you. Just think about
what you can do is have people step

451
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.519
into their shinn with your leadership.
So to that and also I wanted to

452
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:35.199
I've never heard anybody quite treat situational
leadership the way that you've did. In

453
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.400
your book, which I also want
to call it. It's it's really quite

454
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.679
stunning. It's very specific, and
it's very profound. And so you showcase

455
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:46.559
situational leadership as derived from doctor Paul
Hershey and doctor Ken Blanchard, who,

456
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:51.320
as you say, introduced the situation
leadership theory, which suggested that leaders choose

457
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:55.719
a leadership style based on the developmental
maturity of their team members. I've never

458
00:34:55.880 --> 00:35:00.599
seen that distinguished like that, based
on the developmental maturity of team members.

459
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:06.159
That that's pretty pretty amazing, pretty
profound. Well, that's I think that

460
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:12.400
that is they're giving of themselves to
be a better leader. And when they

461
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:21.000
give of themselves through being through humility
or authenticity and and really grow with the

462
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:25.400
team back and forth, that is
I think that is, you know,

463
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:30.400
that is kind of the goal I
think, you know, and to do

464
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:35.840
that, you know, you got
to listen and get out of the way

465
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:40.679
and and think about not the pyramid
of an organization but more of an organization

466
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:46.840
like a layer of pancakes and you
know, accomplishing things. And so I

467
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:52.719
think leadership is changing and we need
a different model of leadership. So one

468
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:54.760
of the things I did want to
ask you which I think you're just starting

469
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:58.760
to speak through there is you know, how can leaders learn the maturity of

470
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:01.920
their team members in order to them
through their situational leadership? Yeah, ask,

471
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:08.679
ask, listen, interface, you
know, tell stories, listen to

472
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:15.079
stories, and and really make it
not just about the business, but make

473
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:21.239
it about the human And you can
do that within the business for sure,

474
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:28.519
but it's you know, I think
we've separated the leader from the rest of

475
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:31.639
the organization. We've put them in
an office and it's on a different floor,

476
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:36.760
and maybe that floor is locked,
and and you know, that's not

477
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:40.480
where the leaders should be. They
should be with their people and listening to

478
00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:45.960
their ideas and what's working, what's
not working. Two things come immediately to

479
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:51.079
mind. Emotional intelligence and back to
your storytelling. Right. So what I'm

480
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.039
seeing consistently over and over again and
the work that I'm doing and who I'm

481
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:58.119
having on the show is the importance
that criticality, developing, that emotional intelligence,

482
00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:00.960
of really being able to understand with
empathy your team what they need,

483
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.760
what they want, what they make
for, and then to be able to

484
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:07.199
hear it right and make the place
safe so they can actually voice their concerns

485
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.960
and what they want. And then
of course the storytelling piece for me speaks

486
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:15.079
to being able to share you know, both what to dev do amazing today

487
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:19.440
with the rest of the team that
story, but also what is this organization

488
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:22.480
doing that's actually really making a difference
in the world and cancel what you're part

489
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:28.599
of that? Yeah, Yeah,
and a hefty dose of self awareness too,

490
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:31.760
because if you don't know, if
you don't know what your biases are,

491
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:36.719
you don't really understand your your core
values, and it takes time to

492
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:40.639
understand your core values as an individual. If you don't understand how you make

493
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:45.119
decisions, or why you make decisions, or what your triggers are, it's

494
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:50.840
going to be it's going to be
less effective. I think those other things

495
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:55.440
are going to be less effective because
it's more coming from a place of a

496
00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:01.000
to do rather than to be,
and you have to know what you are

497
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:07.400
to bring that b part to the
conversation. I think that was the price

498
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.840
of admission work, the price of
emission right there. Self awareness is so

499
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:15.000
important and I would say, truthfully, so much of the work that I

500
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.360
end up doing. When people say
that they need leadership development is they're really

501
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:21.280
what they're dealing with is people that
aren't self aware of they don't know what

502
00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:23.840
they don't know, and they have
no idea that the impact the shrapnel that

503
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:28.119
they're causing. Had a great guy
in My show named Tim Spiker on My

504
00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:31.360
show and he wrote a book called
Are You a Leader of Worth Following?

505
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:36.039
And essentially what he's talking about is
what happens when we work for leaders who

506
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.360
aren't self aware, who don't understand
who they are in the world and haven't

507
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:43.239
done their self work, and that
shrapnel that they throw out to their people

508
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:45.960
then comes home with each individual as
they then tell their snivit another about their

509
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:49.920
awful day and their horrible boss,
and they kick the dog and they yell

510
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:52.519
at their children, and that,
you know, the ongoing effect just continues

511
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:57.679
the ripple. So you're pointing about
self awareness I think is really critical.

512
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:02.119
Yeah, it's it's no yourself and
you know when you can. When you

513
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:07.920
do that, you don't necessarily have
to armor up with with a persona that

514
00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:10.559
the says you're a leader. You
know you can be. You can be

515
00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:15.639
confident in in not knowing an answer
or or saying you know what, This

516
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:19.599
is a really hard problem. I
don't know how to solve it. But

517
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.960
together I have the confidence that we
can all I'll figure this out. And

518
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:28.599
so I think that self assureness,
self awareness is is really important, and

519
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:31.719
we don't teach that in business schools. We don't, you know, we

520
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:37.880
don't, and we don't necessarily coach
on that from uh, from a leadership

521
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:45.440
perspective, necessarily. I had a
I had a boss a long time ago,

522
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:47.360
and I messed up pretty big time
and I said, you know,

523
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:51.400
I need to tell my team I'm
I'm sorry, and he says, no,

524
00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:53.679
you never tell them you're sorry,
because you know, as soon as

525
00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:59.079
you say you're sorry, then you
show weakness. And you know something,

526
00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:04.599
At times, I think we teach
some really bad, bad, bad characteristics

527
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:07.119
and habits well, And wouldn't you
say that comes from obsolesceage. Again,

528
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:10.519
that's somebody got that off the shelf, you know, from nineteen sixties,

529
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:14.280
nineteen seventies or whatever, and he's
been carrying that around with them ever since.

530
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:16.159
He pulled it right out of his
backpack to give to you, you

531
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:20.400
know, And I hope it sounds
to me like you maybe rejected that.

532
00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:22.199
I don't know what happened in that
situation, but yeah, I've heard that

533
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.360
a lot, say, you're sorry, gosh, last thing. Yeah,

534
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:30.519
but that's it's a great example of
that obsolete in that absolute knowledge exactly.

535
00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:35.880
And going back to your idea of
human centric leadership. One of the things

536
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:37.559
I also found quite interesting about your
books. You say, the stronger the

537
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:43.360
focus on people companies had before COVID
nineteen, the higher their chances of survival

538
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:46.599
during him through the crisis. So
you also wanted to stay in a sense

539
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:52.239
value proposition shifted from what companies wanted
to sell to providing what people value most.

540
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:55.920
And of course this is the heart
of human centering behavior. Pretty interesting,

541
00:40:55.960 --> 00:40:59.880
and so if you'd say more about
what you've noticed in this trend of

542
00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:02.320
these companies that have actually been able
to maybe not just you know, get

543
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:07.559
by, but even maybe thrive because
of their focus on providing value and helping

544
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:10.480
people. Yeah, I think that
it goes back to that purpose driven If

545
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:17.960
if it's to serve and to help, then then you got through You got

546
00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:23.320
through COVID a little bit easier if
it was to sell a product that wasn't

547
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:28.800
necessarily needed at the time, and
that was your soul for purpose to make

548
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.800
money. You know, you probably
you probably failed or you probably struggled.

549
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:37.800
I use the example of restaurants.
I think that's a it's a really great

550
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:42.400
example, and you know, because
we can all relate to it because we

551
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.800
all had to feed ourselves through this
when everything started shutting down. But the

552
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:51.480
restaurants, especially at the local restaurants, the local restaurants that really knew that

553
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:57.760
this was about feeding people, making
sure they got nutrition, sustaining life,

554
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:00.639
they pivoted pretty fast. They figure, you know, I can still cook

555
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:07.519
and we can figure out how to
get that food to individuals. Those restaurants

556
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:12.480
that really thought it was a destination
or a cute place or come to my

557
00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:17.760
place so I can entertain you.
You know, that mindset didn't survive through

558
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:23.920
through the shutdown, and so I
think it's a really great example of how,

559
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:28.840
you know, some lessons learned.
I mean, that's not taken away

560
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:32.400
from the tragedy of COVID and how
stressful it was for all of us.

561
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:37.239
But I do think there is an
immense amount of lessons learned from a business

562
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:43.840
that I hope we learn and not
try to go back to what we were

563
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.159
In a lot of cases, you
know, doubt that's how I got the

564
00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:52.000
idea to offer the grab your Gusto
offering because as I was sitting through the

565
00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:54.159
pandemic, of course, a lot
of the work that I was doing was

566
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:59.480
speaking and developing in the regional leaders
and doing culture consulting, which I still

567
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:02.320
do today. What I kept hearing
over and over again was the concern that

568
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:06.920
business leaders had for the mental health
and well being of their people. And

569
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.079
I realize, Gosh, I can
help with that because I'm a local therapist

570
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:13.480
and the work that I do really
speaks to how to help teach people how

571
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:15.719
to activate, you know, their
own energy systems through meaning and purpose from

572
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.440
the inside out. That's a great
way to combat, you know, some

573
00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:22.039
of the issues that we're dealing with. And that's how I created that product.

574
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:23.719
It was by listening to that,
And I would have never thought about

575
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:29.880
doing that before. That wasn't wasn't
a natural immediate response to how I was

576
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:32.360
doing my work. Yeah, that's
a that's a great example, and I

577
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:39.480
think it's it really It tapped into
that human system because that need is you

578
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:43.599
know, that need will continue whether
or not we go back to work or

579
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:45.960
in a workplace or not. Yeah, And I know that, right,

580
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:50.920
So this gets to you know,
the combination of possibist psychology, existential psychology.

581
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:52.760
These are my jams, right,
this is what I know, and

582
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:55.320
I know this is what creates optimal
mental health and energy and vitality. So

583
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.760
anyway that I actually all happened,
thank you because of the pandemic. So

584
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:02.320
not saying that I'm grateful for the
pandemic, I'm just saying that it's a

585
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:07.719
nice side benefit, it would be
clear. So we're getting close to the

586
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:09.679
end here, and I definitely want
to get you to talk about You've got

587
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:14.639
a six point framework for consideration that
starts with the realization that im Men's energy

588
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:17.880
exists within the human system. So
would you say a little something about this

589
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:22.719
six point framework. It'll help us
understand just that their breadth and depth of

590
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:25.840
your work. Right, So if
we think about starting with that human system,

591
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:30.079
and maybe it's my engineering background that
it really looks at that as a

592
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:35.800
as a system, humanity as a
system. It you know, there's there's

593
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.079
a power source and it can be
tapped into, tap into that energy,

594
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:43.960
tap into that desire, those hearts, that innovation. That would be the

595
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:46.960
first thing is to just recognize it
and figure out way how to tap into

596
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:53.320
it. You know. The second
point is realize that your organization was built

597
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:58.400
for a very different time and for
a very different purpose. And you know,

598
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.880
we benchmark off of each other,
and we learned we all went to

599
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:07.039
the same NBA classes and and and
so there's a common, uh, a

600
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:13.880
common belief about how business is structured
and how it should be organized and run.

601
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:16.519
And so realize that is that is
for the past, that was the

602
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:22.239
industrial age. It's not for the
knowledge age. You know, resist the

603
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:28.440
strong momentum to uh, to just
keep retaining the status quo it is.

604
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.599
That would be The third point is
check yourself moment by moment and the decisions

605
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.119
that you're making. Are you making
them based on uh, you know,

606
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:45.880
past belief and past practices or and
or are you are you really creating for

607
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:51.360
the future and the future organization?
And that's that's going to take you to

608
00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:54.760
have to disrupt your your beliefs.
And we've talked about this obsolage and the

609
00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.920
behaviors that you know, when you're
on autopilot and you're running, running real

610
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:07.000
fast in the organization, it is
really hard to be disruptive, embrace humanity

611
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:16.599
and and really that that autisticity and
and be transparent and build trust and as

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00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:22.119
a leader, that is really the
call to action is is the it's no

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00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:29.960
longer a choice is to whether or
not you really pivot to a human centric

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00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.960
perspective, but how you pivot to
that, And I think that is the

615
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.599
call to action for the future successive
business. Beautiful, absolutely gorgeous. Were

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00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:43.239
really close out of time, but
I want to give you like fifteen seconds

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00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:45.559
if you want to go ahead and
close out and leave othersens with anything you'd

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00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:49.239
like them to know. You know, humanity is changing business and we need

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00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:53.440
to realize that. And it's it's
the issues as the challenges, is the

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00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:58.920
desires, and it is impacting our
business and we need to be aware of

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00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:07.119
that and stand in that place and
reassess our leadership and our organizations. Beautiful

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00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:08.519
way to finish to thank you so
much for being a guest on my show,

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00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:12.639
for creating and putting out this gorgeous
book, important book. I'm really

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00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:14.920
glad to know you. Thanks for
being on the show. You two,

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00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:17.519
thank you so much for the opportunity. Absolutely, listeners in the ear if

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00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:21.159
you want to learn more about Deborah
west Fall, her work, her book,

627
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.559
or her life and adventures. Start
by visiting her website. It's Deborah

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00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:28.599
Westfall. Let me spell that for
you. Deborah D E b O r

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00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:35.079
A H. Westfall w eest pH
A L. Deborah Westfall dot com.

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00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:37.440
And thanks again to our partnering sponsor
work Proud, which helps companies build a

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00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:42.519
platform where your workforce receives meaningful feedback
and thanks for their work from people across

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00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:45.000
your company. Last week, if
you wish the live show, you can

633
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.840
always catch re recorded podcast. We
were on the air with Natalie Benemo talking

634
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:52.760
about the platform for women she launched
inde Pandemic, called her c Suite.

635
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:57.320
Next week, we'll be on air
with Daniel Sanderson, the creator of Planksip,

636
00:47:57.559 --> 00:48:00.360
a new approach of publishing that helps
emerging thought with personal branding by co

637
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:05.039
creating organic content. See you there
a member that works at least a third

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00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:10.000
of a life, So let's work
on Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this

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00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:15.639
week's program. Be sure to tune
into Working on Purpose featuring your host,

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00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:21.039
doctor Elise Cortez, each week on
the Voice America Empowerment Channel. Together,

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00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:28.280
we'll create a world where business operates
conscientiously. Leadership inspires impassioned performance, and

642
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:32.639
employees are fulfilled in work that provides
the meaning and purpose They crave see you

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00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:35.920
there. Let's work on purpose.