Beware: Retirement from Work Can Be Hazardous

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortes, showing
you lie from Austin, Texas this week,

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or am on the road to host
a women's storytelling event this Wednesday and

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then to speak for the Texas Network
or Youth Services conference about leadership on Thursday.

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If you've been tuning in for a
while, you know this program is

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all about helping people create more meaningful
and purposeful lives, and I'm puipping leaders

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inst organizations to cultivate meaning and purpose
at a listen's passion inspired contribution, innovation,

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and per severing performance. I talk
with my guests to draw on their

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expertise and share my own experience consulting, speaking, and developing work cources across

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the globe. Before we get into
the program, let me give a shout

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out to our sponsor, rent with
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credit is not in the best of
shape, or if you are in a

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transition such as a divorce, downsizing, or relocating and unsure about the area.

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We're checking out a new opportunity to
see if your alignce with your purpose.

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Of course, I love that each
week in these conversations, I hope

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you walk away with something you can
immunately use in your life or work,

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and if I can do anything to
help you along your journey. Go to

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my website at Polascortes dot com and
use the contact me feature to message me.

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Let's open a conversation and explore what's
going on for you and how I

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might be able to help. Whether
you want to learn more about how to

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develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning and
fuels culture in your organization, You want

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to see about joining a cash fire
online inspiration, accountability or mastermind community to

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nurture your own fashion and purpose.
You're interested in the Women on Purpose Thought

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Leadership Summit and Retreat in the Portland, organ area September eight through twenty nineteen,

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or are you'd likely to speak for
your company or conference at any event.

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I'm glad we're connected. Thanks for
listening. Now onto this week's program

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with us live. Right in front
of me is Paul Garrett, who is

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affectionately called a law school dropout who
has worked as a church pew wood plan,

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digital electronics scales technician, union activist
and chapter president and administratorist menaradised tests,

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among many various diverse occupations, get
a long career with internal revenue service

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as one of the good guys,
he likes to say, helping taxpayers resolve

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nightmarish problems and get their refunds and
abatements. After retirement, he found himself

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getting and seeks, so he returned
to the workforce more invigorated and seeking more

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purpose and more just a job.
He currently assists community college faculty with technology

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and innovation. In this conversation,
we'll be talking about some of his career

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highlights spanning several decades. How he
learned that retirement is not healthy for him,

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and why constant retooling is both fun
and necessary in today's ever evolving job

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market. I'm here with him on
Austin Community College campus. Paul, welcome

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to working on Purpose. Oh,
thank you, Lisa, as an honor

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and a pleasure to be here.
And it's great to finally be able to

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meet you. Absolutely, and so
you and I connected sometime. You had

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heard my show at some point,
and for our listener's sake, so you

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understand just how this conversation came to
be. I knew that I was going

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to be in Austin to be speaking
at this conference, and then I thought,

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what the heck, I'll go ahead
and host a women's storytelling session.

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And I thought, well, I'm
on the road, wouldn't it be fun

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to source my guests from Austin,
At which point I began looking for people

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I knew in Austin, remembered that
you and I were connected on LinkedIn,

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and I thought we could have an
interesting conversation. So literally, it's freshly

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generated content from the road. Thank
you, Paul. Well, you're welcome.

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And he needed to find somebody truly
weird since trying to keep it that

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way in Austin, and let's keep
it weird in Austin. Sounds good.

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Well, there's three things that I
want to talk about with you that I

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think are pertinent to our listenership.
And the first one is just talking about

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your overall career. You've done lots
of different things, and I like to

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be able to find what you have
found meaningful about your work. So first,

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why did you study why law school? Well? I think it was

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the thing to do and that i'd
always, you know, grown up expected

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in a way that I would go
into law and even maybe even politics.

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And you know, I did really
well on the entrance exam l SAT and

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I thought that that's that meant that
that was what I should do, you

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know, because I excelled in that. And what I found was that,

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you know, I was living somebody
else's dream, not my own, and

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it was time for me to step
back and live my life according to my

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own needs and my own dreams.
Let me come round that really quick,

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Paul. That is so so so
important. I have a sixteen year old

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daughter and she's right now, of
course, in the throws, trying to

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figure out what she's going to study
when she goes to college. She thinks

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probably medicine, and I've had a
lot of conversation with her to say,

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make sure that you choose whatever it
is you're going into. You're the one

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who's going to live that life.
So I really applaud that you're able to

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step back and say this is not
for me. How did you know?

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Well? I got a little help
my best friend in law school. I

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hate to bring this up, but
he committed suicide. And that the loss

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of that friend, you know,
somebody that I was relying on as a

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comrade in arms in law school against
all the stress and the thing verbally interrogated

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by professors unmercifully. So that helped
me. That gave me a kickstart in

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that direction, is rethinking the whole
idea as to whether this is really something

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that's right for me. So then
instead of law school, then what did

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you do next? What I did
next was I went about as far in

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a different direction in technology as a
digital electronic scales technician. I was a

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scalesman, not a salesman, but
a scalesman. That's awesome, we got

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it right. It was I don't
know if I wasn't a scales person,

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I was a scalesman because it was
a industry, you know, dominated by

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men at the time. And I
got very involved in a a incoming young

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company that was distributing electronic scales in
all different fields agricultural chart scales, industrial

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applications, and postal scales, mailing
systems. And I would go help the

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salespeople do presentations and then do the
installations, and then we would sell service

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contracts. And so I was on
as part of the service staff that was

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called upon when everything started coming up
less than perfect from what we promise.

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With all due respect to you attorneys
out there who are listening to the show.

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That sounds like so much more fun
than arguing with someone. Well,

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I learned a lot about the way
things are done in the real working world,

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so called real world of penal producing
things the things that we need,

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whether it be food or many transportation, you know, the church scales.

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So let's go to today's world you
and I talked about on the phone.

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We were getting ready for this conversation. Help our our listeners understand what does

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work mean to you from your banish
point today where you are in your life.

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What does work mean to you?
Well, I think work is a

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developmental process, and I think that
it is a thing that sustains me.

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Of course it is an income,
but if it was just an income,

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then I might soon be retired because
I could probably get by if necessary.

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I was getting by. I think
it's also an educational learning experience. It's

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an opportunity to learn from others,
to help others, and to grow,

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and so it's a process. I'm
really glad that I got back involved in.

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I was really, I think,
kind of getting sagnant with not learning

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new things and just getting into old
patterns. Absolutely behaviors. Want to comment

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on what you just said about when
I ask you what work means to you.

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I did some pretty robust research investigating
how first from my dissertation when I

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did my PhD, and then I
did a postdoc augmented research approach where I

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interviewed one hundred and fifteen men and
women across twenty different professions between the ages

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of eighteen and eighty to learn how
they experienced meaning in their work and how

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their work was related or not related
to their sense of self or identity.

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And I found fifteen modes of engagement. They're on my website at leastcore test

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dot com and you would be just
based on what you said. You're in

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what I call the self actualizing mode, as I was too for many years

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before I went into living my purpose
mode. So the self actualizing mode is

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just that it's where people what they
look for work, what they most prize

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from work is the development, the
stimulation of growth and ongoing learning that the

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work provides them, and that they
see their work principally not just from the

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income vantage point, but as a
vehicle to develop themselves. That's what I'm

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hearing from you, right. And
for so many years, you know,

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I loved some of my work as
I was a union representative in president and

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I loved helping people. We had, you know, people in dire conditions

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either losing jobs or you know,
being unfairly denied a promotion or a transfer

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or various things, and it was
just so satisfying personally when we were able

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to help people out. And you
know, we didn't win every case,

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but we had a pretty good tracker
going there for a while. So but

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what I found is that you know
that that was almost like a rush winning

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a case, and it's the personal
satisfaction of helping somebody feels so great,

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but then after a while, you
haven't really necessarily advanced in developing your whole

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skills and your your whole job on
capabilities. And that's when I started thinking

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that it was time that I start
helping myself and not just look out for

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the gratification of helping others when able
to do that, and it was time

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to try to build a career that
would mean something to myself where I could

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you feel like it was really what
I was meant to be and edifying to

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myself and getting fulfillment front it.
So to that end, one of the

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things we talked about when we were
on the phone is I asked you how

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it was that you find yourself working
in education, and you said, well,

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I come from a family of educators. My dad is a retired theologian

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who has taught around the world and
a leading theologian in his field, and

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my mom was a teacher and librarian
for much of her life. And I

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just it was so shaped and also
admiring of them in their helping people and

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teaching people. And I learned so
much from them, and I would like

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to be able in a small way
to pass that on. It's so interesting

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what I appreciate when people telling our
stories is really important. I really encourage

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all of you listeners if you've never
told your story, written down your life

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story, even if it's just three
pages. I start with three words or

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three sentences, and then you can
kind of do that from there. But

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when you talk about your life story
like that and you claim all the things

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that have made you to who you
are today, there's power in that,

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don't you think to go back?
I really like done all that. I

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love talking about things from my early
life. Of course my age, I

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can remember those things clearly, and
I forget what I did a week ago.

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But I think that those shaping experiences, whether it's in elementary school or

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high school, the teachers that help
me, it's always been something that has

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been so much to me. And
I've been involved in education one way or

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another very much in my life.
And this is a good fit for me

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to come back into in re entering
the workforce. Well, the other thing

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too, And I don't know if
you can you can conjure this now for

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this conversation, But today in your
role, are there certain things and your

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other experiences, your other jobs that
you pull from or that you realize that

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you're leaning from to be able to
do this work today. Oh yeah,

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I have a lot of situations to
help faculty when they have a situation where

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in the classroom there's and type of
technical issue. And that's exactly a throwing

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on when I had to go into
the middle of M and M Marsh when

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one of their forklift operators had skid
it into one of their waybars and knocked

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out their their mixing scales, the
brat scales, and you got to deliver

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the goods right then and there.
So you know, there's pressure and sometimes

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I go in, you know,
a little bit fearful when I first started

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in this position, But actually,
when you can set the fear aside,

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it's actually confidence building because if you
go in and set that fear aside,

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you find that you can do things
that you never really realized you had in

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you. And that's the way of
growing and becoming confident for that next,

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even bigger situation. It certainly is. And on that note, take our

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first break completely agree. Leaning into
fear is a great way to learn and

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to grow. The opportunity is leaning
into it. I'm your host, Alie

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Cortes. We run in the air
with Paul Garrett. He is affectionately called

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a law school dropout, and he's
also what I like to call a jack

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of many trades. He is a
faculty resource technician here in at the Austian

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Community College. We've been talking a
bit about his various early experiences in his

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life and how he chose to create
the life that he did. After the

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break, we're going to talk about
why retirement wasn't for him. Stay with

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us, We'll be right back.
Alice Cortez is a speaker and engagement and

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development catalyst. She designs and delivers
professional development, leadership and engagement workshops and

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can bring her expertise to your organization. She will help ignite meaningful development within

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your workforce that will increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more

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or to invite Elise to speak to
your organization, please visit her at www

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dot Elise Coortes dot com. She
would welcome the opportunity to help get your

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employees working on purpose. This is
working on Purpose with Elise Cortes. To

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reach our program today, send an
email to a lease Alise at Aleasecortes dot

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com. Now back to working on
purpose. Thanks for stating with us and

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welcome back to working on purpose if
you're just joining us. My guest is

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Paul Garrett. Among other many affectionate
things, he's known as a law school

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dropout and he's also a jack of
many mini traits that he's very proud of.

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Today he is a faculty of Resource
technician and works for the Austin Community

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College. We've been talking before the
break about really some of his earlier experiences

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in the work world and what work
means to him. And for this part

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of the conversation, I want to
focus on why retirement wasn't a good idea.

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So Paul helped us understand a little
bit about what was going on for

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you. You started, you retired
from, first, what position and win

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how long ago? I retired from
the Internal Revenue Service as a technical specialist

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in customer service and also worked in
audit reconsideration. And once I was retired,

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my whole structure in life and my
schedule and reasons for doing things were

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gone, and I was left on
my own to try to kind of wade

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through the day. And I found
that I would at the end of the

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day, I'd be lucky to have
gotten one or two decent things accomplished.

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It was getting to that situation.
So it's stagnating, and it was starting

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to lead me to become more depressed. I had had a history of a

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major depressive illness that I'd been receiving
help for since the early eighties, but

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this retriggered some of the more serious
aspects of the depression. And what I

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find now is that I've got more
of a structured purpose in my life,

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and it's the self discipline has come
back to where I can really feel good

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about getting up and doing things and
accomplishing things, even if they're small things.

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It's so important, Paul, And
one of the reasons that I really

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wanted to have you on the show
is just for this very reason to talk

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about why retirement isn't always the best
thing, at least not in a classical

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sense. So because retier really means
I forget exactly what it means from Latin

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ratin, but it means to move
away from or something like that, recluse

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essentially. And what we find oftentimes
when people retire is they don't last very

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long after that. Usually in other
words, oftentimes sits they're six feet under

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just a couple of years afterwards.
I can tell you that my own mother

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passed away this January twenty nineteen at
the age of seventy three. She had

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major COPD smoking related conditions that were
complications, but I am firmly convinced if

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she had something to focus on to
be of service to others, she would

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have lasted much longer than she than
she did. I'm so sorry for your

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loss. My dad was in his
early nineties ninety four this year, and

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he kept teaching until his late eighties. He was a part time faculty still

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in the seminary, and I think
that that's really what has kept him going

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is his drive he has. When
he got sick recently, it was well,

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it should have been fatal incident,
but his will to live and his

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drive just kept him going. It
forced himself to live almost he just picked

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himself up from that situation. And
that's exactly what we're getting at here.

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So if my listeners have heard me
for a while, they know that I'm

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also a lot of therapists, which
means that I adhere to existential psychology principles

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that were created by Victor Frankel,
who has really talked a lot about the

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importance of the will to live and
that actually meaning is the most critical motivational

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factor to man. So when we
have something in our lives that we can

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find meaningful and that can be to
be a service for others, to others,

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whatever it is, it's that ability
to be able to create and discover

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meaning in the moment and across our
lives that helps us have that will to

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live. And it's so important.
Yeah, I find that it's the drive

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to live something that I tap into
an overcoming depression. It can help me

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and my health experiences, get more
involved in things, and it just has

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a reciprocal and a repical effect in
all of my life, like becoming more

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involved across the board. Well.
And the other thing too is the older

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we get, the more we have
accumulated all these life experiences and things we've

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learned how to do, we're very
valuable. I do think that our culture

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in the United States would be well
served to value our elders more than it

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currently does. So even when we
talk about retirement in the traditional sense,

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but you can still do many other
things to be useful, like, for

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example, one of my dear friends, both of his parents do a lot

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of volunteer work in the community feeding
the homeless, and they are counted on

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for that, they're dependent on for
that, and it lights them up.

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They don't get paid for it,
but this is their cotribution to their community

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and people love them for that.
So there's so many ways to be a

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service when we maybe aren't dependent on
making a living an income anymore, that

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are so important for well being.
I agree that they have found a mission

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and that has to just amplify the
world to live. And you know,

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there's been times and I felt that
mission when I was representing people employees that

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really I had a drive and it
kept be going. And then I realized

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in the long run that I needed
to apply some of that drive to building

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myself up and be ready for the
future and have a fully developed self and

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fully advanced career. And we want
to talk more about that too in our

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next segment. So well, let's
hold those thoughts. But in terms of

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retire do you know very many people
in your immediate myths who are fully retired

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and don't work? No, don't. I'm not a member of When I

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was retired, I didn't join up. You know, the various retirement groups

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are in the neighborhood Association there's a
retirements club. I didn't join up.

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What you know, maybe I should
have because it would have helped me get

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more, get going better and being
more social and more active. No,

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I deal mindly with people that are
working people. So you're reminding me.

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I don't know what is you just
said there, Paul, but it reminded

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very fondly of a joke that I
heard Ben Zander share and one of his

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YouTube videos. I use his work
The Art and Possibility sometimes to make some

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points. But he talks about how
a cab stops in New York City for

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this showman who hops in the back
seat, and the guy in the back

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seat goes, step on it,
go as fast as you can, and

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the cab driver says to him,
where are we going, and he goes,

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it doesn't matter. I need it
everywhere. I just think that is

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so great, right if you can
go through life thinking like that, Right,

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I'm up to something. I need
it everywhere I go. Think about

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the fuel that gives you, and
how that would how that would help you

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get out of bed, give a
spring to your step, allow you to

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be of service. I mean,
it's just it's beautiful when you can conjure

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that kind of a perspective for yourself. That's that's great to be a humor

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and you've got to be ready to
deal with everywhere there. But yeah,

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I enjoy being able to be dependent
on and being able to deliver at least,

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you know, an a fairly high
rate of success. And so being

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being somebody that can be relied on
to be there for people, that's rewarding

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and motivating. It is, in
fact, Victor Frankel. And and again

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I can you. I'm always studying
something, and I'm just getting into transcendental

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meditation as well. But I'm always
taking some kind of course to fortify my

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learning and to keep myself growing and
learning too. And so I'm taking another

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local therapy course right now. That's
wonderful and I absolutely love it. It's

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just ongoing study and I have a
conversation every week with my professor. But

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this whole thing about recognizing that life
doesn't always happiness. We owe it gives

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us the opportunity to be of service, to be responsible for our own fulfillment

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and happiness, but it doesn't always
happiness. And I think when you have

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that kind of perspective, and that's
very much what Loco therapy teaches. It

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enables a sense of accountability and responsibility
in yourself to create the life that you

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want, that you recognize you're not
a victim to it. Whatever has happened

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in your life, it can be
transmitted into a positive learning experience if you

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can do it that way, and
you can do it, you can do

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it that way. It sounds like
I was listening to your recent podcasts about

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overcoming an overwhelming experiences or difficultly life
experiences in the ways of turning that around

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and making them work for you.
Well, I'm up with a firm belief

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that that embracing adversity helps us to
become the person we are meant to become.

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And for the longest time, Paul
I used to say, I probably

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won't amount much in life because I
really haven't had to deal with a lot

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in my life. I haven't had
to overcome a lot in my life,

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and I was really worried that I
was going to be, you know,

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just an average, mediocre human being. And a few things along the way

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have helped me that I've had to
deal with that were hard. The divorce

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was very hard, and there have
been a few other things that have that

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have really helped me, and I'm
so grateful for those things because they really

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did help me become who I believe
I'm supposed to become. And when you

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look at it that way, it's
it is such a gift. Yeah.

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I've been knocked in flat on my
face, excuse me, various times in

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my life, and seemingly the hardest
thing that I've dealt with since the previous

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lockdown. In taking those lumps,
I find that I'm able to deal with

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even bigger challenges and I'm ready for
them. Yes, And so going back

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to ours our topic here about avoiding
retirement, to at least the classical sense

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of it, I'm not saying,
you know that if you don't have to

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be dependent on making an income anymore, that that's not great. But finding

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a way to challenge yourself to be
of service to other people, to keep

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yourself learning and growing is so important
for ongoing well being and also to in

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mind you honoring this one precious life
we've been given. I mentioned that my

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mother died in early January of this
year, when my father followed her out

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twenty eight days later. So I
have a wholly different perspective about when I

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ask my audience is what will you
do with this one precious life? Because

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now I really really understand how finite
life really is, and so I have

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this urgency and intensity to do all
these things that I've got on my radar,

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to get down my book and my
platform, all these things that I'm

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working on. There's an urgency that
comes with recognizing that we have finality in

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our lives. Yeah, it's exciting
and it's daunting, but it's such a

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challenge. I find that I've been
able to take advantage of some supportive opportunities

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here at the college with some of
the training that's offered. I'm studying photoshop

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and photography on the LinkedIn courses,
which is so great. It seems to

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be developing certain parts of my life
creatively and helping me in my job as

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well. Yeah, and I want
to talk a little bit more about that

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after we go on the break because
I really want to focus on that retooling

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here. But before we get there, back to I remember, finally what

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the retirement actually means to withdraw from. So you're withdrawing you could say that

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it means you're kind of withdrawing from
sort of society in many ways, and

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again it's a way to refrain.
My ex father in law is in his

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mid eighties and he's still practicing health
care. He's an obgyn. He does

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surgery still. And I talked to
my mother in law the other day and

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I said, when do you think
he's going to quit? She said the

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day he drops to the ground.
And I think that is so great.

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He is a delightful man. He's
cheerful, he's kind, he's good.

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He's so careful about his work,
and he works hard in many long hours

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and it really keeps him going.
And he has a lifetime experiences daily in

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medicine that give him a broader range
of perspective in solving the medical questions.

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That's right. He loves his patients
and they him too. And he's got

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talked about a great bedside manner.
He's just he can talk to anybody anyway.

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He's just. He's so it's such
a pleasure to be able to hear

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him in his eighties talk about how
fulfilling his work still is. And there's

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a reason that my host a radio
show call it working on purpose. I

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am focused on the world of work. I think it's a very important part

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of our lives. It's at least
a third of our lives, if not

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more, and it does really give
us something. It is a way to

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live. And I'm not saying that
work should be everything, but I happen

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to be living my purpose and so
my perspective on work is that it really

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is incredibly fulfilling. Now, there
have been times in my life when I

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was not living my purpose and I
had a job and I had a paycheck.

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And I understand that many people,
in fact eighty five percent of the

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global population doesn't want to go to
work on Monday morning, which is why

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I'm doing the work that I'm doing
today to awaken and enlighten them to the

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possibility of what it could be for
them. So I do recognize for a

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lot of listeners they might be going, I don't want to keep doing this,

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But find some thing that you can
put yourself into where you do find

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the meaning in it is what I'd
like to convey. Yeah, there's such

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value and what you're doing, Yeah, to get people to rethink and take

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a whole different look at their lives, their work situation. Completely agree and

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with that, let's grab our last
break. I'm Alice Cortez your host.

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We've are on the air with Paul
Garrett. He is a jack of all

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trades, done many things all over
his life, and today he is a

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faculty resource technician at Austin Community College. We've been talking a bit about why

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retirement wasn't a good idea for him
and why I don't think it's a good

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idea. After the break, we're
going to talk about retooling and why that's

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so critical in today's economy. Stayed
with us, We'll be right back.

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Alise Cortes is a speaker and engagement
and development catalyst. She designs and delivers

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00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:10.319
professional development, leadership and engagement workshops
and can bring her expertise to your organization.

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00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:15.599
She will help ignite meaningful development within
your workforce that will increase employee engagement,

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00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.680
performance and retention. To learn more
or to invite Elise to speak to

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00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:25.440
your organization, please visit her at
www dot elisecortes dot com. She would

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00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:37.880
welcome the opportunity to help get your
employees working on purpose. This is working

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00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:42.759
on Purpose with Elise Cortes. To
reach our program today, send an email

398
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:50.319
to a lease Alise at elisecortes dot
com. Now back to working on Purpose.

399
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.519
Thanks forstine with us, and welcome
back to Working on Purpose. If

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you're just tuning in. My guest
is Paul Garrett. We call him a

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jack of all trades above mini trades. He is a faculty resource technician at

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Austin Community College. We were talking
before the break about why retirement just wasn't

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a good idea for him and really
what pulled him out of it. In

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this next segment, we want to
talk about what he's doing today to help

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him continue to learn, to grow, and to retool. So he mentioned

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earlier before in the last segment that
he was taking a couple of courses on

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00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:27.279
LinkedIn one's Photography, one's Photoshop.
Let's talk about first why you chose those

408
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:31.200
particular courses. Well, why those
two courses, Well, the photoshop is

409
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:39.680
directly tied into our efforts here in
the Faculty Resource Center to help faculty prepare

410
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.240
their lesson plans, to help them
to be able to answer their questions about

411
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:52.400
photoshop. So I need to have
that course in order to get into as

412
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:58.000
a prey requisite to get into some
of the more advanced photoshop courses that are

413
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:02.799
specifically designed for lesson plans. And
then as far as the photography, I

414
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:08.360
think I wanted to learn more well
a number of reasons, but one of

415
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:14.280
the factors was to try to use
more of my creative side of my personality

416
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:20.239
in my brain, and also to
get better shots of friends and family.

417
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:28.119
But I think that the use of
the creative side of the brain, it's

418
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:35.880
shown that it will help in the
long run as far as preventing dementia and

419
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:45.920
other learning difficulties. So I really
am concerned about getting more active in things

420
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:51.320
that you know, involve different parts
of my brain. And one of the

421
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:58.159
things that I was reading recently was
that they did a brain scan of somebody

422
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.719
that was playing piano, and it
showed that they were using a different part

423
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:07.119
of the brain, fully using it
than you would be used to any other

424
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:13.000
momeral activity and during the day,
and the brain scan show these neurons just

425
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:19.599
firing off like mad and creating new
links and so healthy for the brain and

426
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:23.800
preventing dementia and other problems. One
of the things we talked about is how

427
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:29.480
important it is to develop our creativity
in today's marketplace. And I'll quickly do

428
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.440
a quick side note in that I
heard President George Bush speak last week at

429
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:36.840
a convention and he was talking about
how he had taken a painting after he

430
00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:39.119
left the presidency and he said,
I always said I was not creative and

431
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:43.360
I couldn't paint, and he said, by golly, I can, and

432
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.599
he's really enjoying that. But what
I think is really really important from the

433
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:51.320
vantage point of the world of work, I'm very very sensitive and focused on

434
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:55.800
how the human machine collaboration component is
going to play out, and that there's

435
00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:01.679
so much fear out there in the
workplace about how artificial intelligence and robotics are

436
00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:05.159
going to win the day and they're
going to take our job. So what

437
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:09.400
are we humans going to do well? One way we can actually contribute my

438
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:15.360
elite and compete against AI and robotics
is by developing our creativity, our relationship

439
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:21.320
skills, and our emotional intelligence.
Those are things that the machines can't do

440
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:23.559
very well or at all. If
that, if you can say so,

441
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:29.239
I think it's really terrific that you've
chosen something photography that will help develop your

442
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:35.159
creativity. I've got like thirty six
courses in my queue, so I'm really

443
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:39.239
interested also in going back and picking
up a musical instrument. Probably the piano

444
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:45.239
help develop that you're reminding me,
Paul, I didn't be it. By

445
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.199
the way, since we're a community
college, I want to give a shout

446
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:52.119
out to all the community colleges out
there, whoever the listeners, that you're

447
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:55.800
connected to them. I started my
education in Portland Community College in Portland,

448
00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:59.599
Oregon. I didn't go to college. I was twenty four years old and

449
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.199
I start at Portland Community College.
I got my associates of communication there.

450
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:07.039
So I want to give a shout
out first to community colleges and then the

451
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.400
other thing, right, yay yay. The other thing too at that time

452
00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:13.800
is I said, I'm going to
learn two things when I go into college.

453
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.079
I'm going to learn to speak French
and I'm going to learn the piano.

454
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:19.519
So I did two years at French
while I was in community college and

455
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:23.000
that helped tremendously set a baseline for
me. And then I took lessons from

456
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:29.320
a ninety five year old woman and
I remember paying her. She charged five

457
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:32.480
dollars an hour. This was nineteen
eighty nine, I think in Portland,

458
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:36.480
and I would be playing in her
home and she would be She'd say,

459
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:45.880
you missed this same It's so fun. But yes, adding music to our

460
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:50.280
life and finding ways to be able
to cultivate that creativity is so important.

461
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:53.000
And why would you go back to
music? Well, I think there's something

462
00:37:53.000 --> 00:38:00.880
about it that's a natural connection for
people. It's a universal language. And

463
00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:07.239
I've always been so interested in and
followed it, and I'm not creating it.

464
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.880
And that doesn't make sense. Well, and again you have you know,

465
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:12.639
you don't know how many how many
years you left, you have in

466
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.039
your life. I from my vanished
point is, yes, let's do all

467
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.320
those things. Let's devour life for
whatever time we have left, whether it's

468
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:23.119
today, next year, ten years, whatever it is. There's so much

469
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:25.840
that life has to offer. And
I what I am always amazed at when

470
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:31.000
I'm out speaking to audiences, I
really this. I see people that really

471
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:35.639
aren't leaning into life. And I
asked, I think to myself, is

472
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:37.880
that all you want from this beautiful, amazing life that we have. That's

473
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:43.559
all you want? So I love
the fact that you're out there continuing to

474
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.199
learn and grow and being of service, and that you recognize just how you

475
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:50.119
know for you, retirement wasn't going
to do it for you. Yeah,

476
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:55.880
it's hard to picture myself as a
pensioner. Yeah. The other piece about

477
00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:00.199
the ongoing learning that I think is
so great and invariably I'm always taking some

478
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:04.000
kind of a class I would love. Actually, I'm considering becoming a soon

479
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:07.719
yer, you know, for for
wine tasting. But I think I need

480
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:12.199
to get the book out first and
then and then make sure that my platform

481
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.480
is fully functioning up and running before
I go after that one. Thanks to

482
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:17.400
your book, thank you. I'll
get that book written, darn it.

483
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:22.039
But I've always got something on my
radar about what's the next thing I want

484
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:23.480
to learn? So what else is
on your radar? What else do you

485
00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:29.440
think you might want to learn?
I want to learn. I've picked up

486
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:32.679
in recent years studying Spanish, but
I want to I want to become more

487
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.320
capable in that, because if you
don't constantly practice it and you can't stay

488
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:43.719
up with it very well. Yeah, I completely agree. I was fortunate

489
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:45.679
that I lived in Spain and Brazil, so that's how I could add on

490
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.280
Spanish and Portuguese to my French,
and I later learned Italian, so that

491
00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:52.800
helps so and I love whenever I
travel, I invariably get to use all

492
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:57.719
five of the languages that I have
some access to and it opens something for

493
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:01.960
me. So going back to this
whole retooling thing, I really just want

494
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:07.320
to so emphasize that how important it's
going to be for every human being to

495
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.800
continue to retool, continue going back
and learning something new, because that's the

496
00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:15.760
world that we're in and you can't
just hang on to I did a degree

497
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.679
thirty years ago, or I've got
training in this field ten years ago.

498
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:24.239
I read somewhere, and I don't
know if I can't speak to the veracity

499
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:29.719
of a statement, but I read
somewhere that by the time a student completes

500
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.440
four years of education, biology,
whatever it might be, their knowledge will

501
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:37.320
be outdated by the time they finish. That's how much we're learning. Well,

502
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:40.559
that means we really need to step
it up in the higher education.

503
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:45.559
But I mean it's always going to
be that way. With the advances technology,

504
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:51.760
the speed of life just keeps getting
more challenging and complex. It does,

505
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:53.480
and that's one of the reasons.
Another reason I want to have you

506
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:58.960
on the show is to really reiterate
to our listeners the importance of I know

507
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.079
it takes time, oftentimes it takes
a financial investment to go and learn something

508
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:06.599
additional. But it is really the
only way you're going to stay viable in

509
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:10.199
the workforce today is to continue developing
new skills. I can tell you.

510
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:15.880
For me, for example, I've
up until recently, I would always say

511
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:21.360
I'm not technical, I don't do
technical things, I don't do technology.

512
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:25.800
Well, guess what that can't be
So in order to live in today's world,

513
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:30.679
I cannot allow that to be my
reality. So now now I'm into

514
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:32.679
I can learn, and I can
learn. I have learned. And so

515
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:37.360
for your listeners out there that are
really sort of protesting and sort of resisting

516
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:42.039
this idea of learning something new,
maybe it's a brand new field, even

517
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:45.559
I really want to encourage you to
look into that and see the possibilities for

518
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:50.119
yourself. And Paul's coming out of
retirement. He came from the Internal Revenue

519
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.639
Service to a community college. That
is so great, it's so fresh.

520
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:58.400
And I can also attest to the
listeners that at least is somewhat of a

521
00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:02.719
gearhead. Now very proud of that. I'm very proud of it. Yeah,

522
00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:08.280
she might have seen her set up
the show of equipment. My daughter

523
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:12.599
is sixteen. She has taught me
a lot as well, So she speaks,

524
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.320
she's very patient with me, and
that she's taught me a lot as

525
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:17.000
well. So whenever I'm in a
jam, I remember when I first got

526
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.719
my iPhone years and years ago,
and I flew from Dallas to San Francisco

527
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:23.599
and I got off the plane and
I didn't know how to turn it back

528
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:29.119
on. So I stop the first
youngest person I could find and said,

529
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:31.880
Hi, can you help me?
Of course they did, can you rescue

530
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:36.559
me? I love that, right, So that's another thing that I really

531
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:39.920
want to also call out that organizations
can't. I really encourage organizations to do.

532
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:45.559
Is really what we call reverse mentoring, where inside the organization pairing very

533
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:50.880
young people with much more senior people
together in a one on one relationship so

534
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:53.920
that the young people can teach the
older people how to utilize technology in a

535
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:58.760
way that really makes a difference in
their lives, among other things, social

536
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:01.639
media and other things that they that
they are natural at, and the old

537
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:06.960
people can teach them things like the
history of the organization, how politics work,

538
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:10.559
why relationships are important, how decisions
get made right, and the importance

539
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:15.599
of how showing up the meetings is
and things like that. So that is

540
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:22.000
another part of ongoing learning that I
think is critical, especially asizations start to

541
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:25.599
see more and more older people start
to leave and maybe leave the workforce,

542
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:30.199
and we will be more and more
fueled by millennials in Generation Z, and

543
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:37.480
we need that handoff. We need
the organizational cultural oral histories, absolutely personal

544
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:44.480
stories and tales of success and failure. That's right, getting back up again

545
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:49.559
and solving things. Yes, and
also what's really important too, and this

546
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:52.480
goes back to I would still put
it in the learning category. It is

547
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:55.119
part of the culture is to be
able to pass on that tradition to the

548
00:43:55.239 --> 00:43:59.519
people that are coming to the organization
in a way that they know and recognize

549
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:02.639
that they're to something much bigger than
they can maybe imagine just coming into the

550
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:07.480
organization new and seeing this small,
what seems like maybe a small role to

551
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:12.920
them. The older folks can help
really usher in this understanding of what they

552
00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:16.480
really joined. That can be incredibly
motivating, incredibly meaningful. And that's another

553
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:20.760
amazing thing that some of the people
that have been around for a while can

554
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:25.280
do for the younger people coming in. Yeah, and I felt lessed in

555
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:31.960
some of my previous occupations where some
of the older people would take me under

556
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:37.440
their wing and show me the ropes
in a certain particular area where they could

557
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:43.400
see that I needed it. And
that seems to be an arc that I

558
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:45.800
don't know that it's disappearing, but
it's something that we really need to treasure

559
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:54.360
and hold onto those experiences between the
different generations as workers. Absolutely, and

560
00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:58.159
there's so much we can learn from
each other. There's so much. And

561
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:05.320
I really I have a girl girlfriend, Sharry elligot Yuri, who specialize in,

562
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:09.119
among other things, in generational workforces, and she has a great perspective

563
00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:14.039
on how the generations need each other
and how they can learn from each other,

564
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:15.480
which of course fits into this part
of what we're talking about as well.

565
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:21.280
And to the extent that an organization
can set up its culture so that

566
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:24.760
there is an active exchange between the
generations, I think is incredibly useful.

567
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:32.360
Yeah. I encourage young people to
invest in education, and I encourage middle

568
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:38.480
age, and I encourage older people
to continue investing in themselves and developing their

569
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:45.440
all kinds of diverse educational skills.
It's worth the money, whether it's traditional

570
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:52.559
type of course work or whether it's
something that's you know, newer kind of

571
00:45:53.159 --> 00:46:00.280
development or new age or whatever.
If it's technical skills, don't just stand

572
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:02.440
well along those lines. One thing
that I would really encourage listeners to do

573
00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:07.119
is every chance to get ask somebody
to show you what they're doing and how

574
00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:10.519
it works. I mean, even
something simple as I watched my grandmother make

575
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:15.000
a pie from scratch, the number
of steps that you put in, and

576
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:17.400
there's something about that creativity, her
ability to put all those things together,

577
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.159
and it actually watching her do that
helped me. I pourted that over into

578
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.079
how I began to write and how
I began to structure my thoughts. And

579
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.960
so you can take very disparate subjects
and get a whole new perspective, a

580
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:35.800
whole new insight into your world by
looking at something else. And that's also

581
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:42.000
part of retooling. That think is
so important, that's so great that you

582
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:45.760
were able to take that from your
loved one like then apply it well.

583
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:49.280
And it was kind of the layering
what she was doing with it for me,

584
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:52.199
the tido, the way that she
layered it it in it just gave

585
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:55.159
me insight into how to layer in
stories and how to layer in points.

586
00:46:55.159 --> 00:47:00.000
And that's what I mean by what
I learned from it. And Anyway,

587
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:02.559
the point being is we have so
much that we can draw from here,

588
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:07.039
and so there's opportunities everywhere to learn. And we're at the end of the

589
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:10.119
show already. So I want to
thank you Paul for being a guest on

590
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:14.320
my radio program. Thank you for
saying yes to this crazy request of me

591
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:16.760
dropping in and doing a show with
you on your campus. Thank you,

592
00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:21.559
Oh, thank you, Elisa.
It's feneral pleasure. I'm so glad that

593
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:23.960
you asked me on. You're very
welcome my pleasure. So last week,

594
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:27.199
if you missed the live show,
you can always catch it be a recorded

595
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:30.239
podcast. We are on the area
with Hope Muler, talking about her soon

596
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:35.039
to be released book, Hopey from
Commune to Corner Office and the extraordinary upbringing

597
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:37.480
she had that wove into powerful life
lessons she took to the corporate life.

598
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:40.639
Next week, we'll be on the
air with Adrian Court. She's the chief

599
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:45.920
human resources officer at Alchemy. We'll
be talking about the all importance of culture

600
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:49.760
in a company to drive connection,
performance and innovation, and learn about some

601
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.199
of the specific and brilliant things Alchemy
does to keep its culture alive. See

602
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:54.320
you there. Remember that work is
at least one third of our life,

603
00:47:54.320 --> 00:48:04.280
so let's work on Purpose. We
hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be

604
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:07.960
sure to tune in to Working on
Purpose, featuring your host Alis Cortes,

605
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:14.360
each week on the Voice America Empowerment
Channel. This week, find your life's

606
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:15.840
purpose at work.