Jan. 29, 2025

A Way Out of the Purpose Paradox toward Meaning, Happiness, and Legacy

A Way Out of the Purpose Paradox toward Meaning, Happiness, and Legacy

Up to 91 percent of people struggle with the idea of finding purpose in their lives, and they feel anxious and depressed as a result. This is the “dark side” of purpose. And yet, there is a path toward meaningful purpose that also comes with happiness...

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Up to 91 percent of people struggle with the idea of finding purpose in their lives, and they feel anxious and depressed as a result. This is the “dark side” of purpose. And yet, there is a path toward meaningful purpose that also comes with happiness and legacy, if only you learn the simple formula and embrace the according lifestyle. Doing so ultimately yields to the “secret sauce” of happiness and impact – finding your tribe in connection and community. Guest: Jordan Grumet, MD.

Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,

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choosing W FOURCY Radio.

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What's working on Purpose?

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Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute

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their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They

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crave being part of an organization that inspires them and

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helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can

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be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help

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usher in this world we all want working on Purpose.

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Now here's your host, doctor Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has

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been brought to you with passion and pride since February

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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning again this week. Great

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to have you. I'm your host, Doctor Earl's Cortes. If

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we have not met before and you don't know me,

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I'm an organizational psychologist, management consultant, local therapist, speaker and author.

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My team and I at GUSTA and I help companies

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to unlive and and fortify their operations by building a dynamic,

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high performance culture and inspirational leadership activated by meaning and purpose.

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And did you know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied

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peers by a factor of two point twenty five two one.

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In other words, inspiration is good for the bottom line.

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You can learn more AboutUs and how we can work

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together at gustodashnow dot com or my personal site at

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Leastcortes dot com. Before we get into today's program, I

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am thrilled to announce that registration is out is now

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open for a fabulous new conference for women for which

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I'll serve as the MC. It's called Thrive in twenty

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five and is a jam packed few days in Chicago

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June twenty fifth through the twenty eighth, twenty twenty five.

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It's designed to devote women as whole selves, from bolstering

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your mindset to your financial acumen, to leadership to incorporating

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nature and art in your life to raise consciousness in

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much more. Visit Thrive in twenty five the number for

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information and to register. You can use my promo code

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Gusto all caps to gain access to the free books

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and programs. I'll be gifting registrations registrants as well. See

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you there now I'm getting today's program. We have with

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us today Jordan Doc G. Grummitt, who is the creator

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of Wealth with Purpose Mastermind, where he is focused on

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helping members integrate financial wellness with a sense of purpose

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and identity. He's a host of the Earn and Invest

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podcast and the author of a couple of books, the

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latest of which is called The Purpose Code, How to

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Unlock meaning, maximize happiness and leave a lasting legacy, which

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you'll be talking about today. You joined today from the

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Chicago area, Doctor Grummitt, Welcome to Working on Purpose.

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Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to

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be here.

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Isn't it nice to be on the other side of

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the MinC once in a while, you.

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Know, I like both sides. I love interviewing people I love.

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Also being a guest, awesome, awesome.

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Well, as I told you before we got on air, Jordan,

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I really really loved your book, just consumed it and

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giggled with it, and you know, was enthusiastically saying, yes,

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that's right. I know that to be true. So thank

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you for sharing it with us. It's beautiful.

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Thank you for reading it.

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Very welcome. I appreciate that too.

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When somebody actually reads my book, I'm like, wow, that's

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so great.

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We have a reader in the house.

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But before you got into the space that you are today,

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you have a pretty interesting story that I just want

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to briefly highlight for our listeners and viewers who haven't

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yet read your book and don't know you. You know,

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starting off really as a doctor and the story behind that,

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working with various patients in general medicine and also with hospice.

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I know you still work with hospice today, but will

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you share first the story of why you became a

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doctor and then really why you decided to move away

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from it.

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So basically, at the age of seven, my father died suddenly.

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He was forty years old. He was an oncologist, a

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cancer doctor, and he went around at the hospital one day,

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got a severe headache and collapsed and died. As a

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seven year old, I saw the world through my own

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particular lens. Right seven year olds think that they're responsible

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for everything, So his dying must have been my fault. Somehow,

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somehow I wasn't enough, and so over the months after

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he died, I decided I could cosmically fix everything by

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stepping into his footsteps, becoming a doctor like him, and

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that would solve the tragedy of my early childhood. And

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that's exactly what I did. At the time, I had

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a learning disability. I overcame that. I went to high school, college,

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medical school, and I became the doctor I always thought

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I wanted to be. And something happened when I got there.

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I realized that it did not tragically solve the death

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of my father, and I didn't particularly love the work

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as much as I thought I would.

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And way to open it up, Jordan, I mean way

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just to knock the rocket out of the ballpark. Fantastic

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way to open and get the attention of our listeners

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and viewers. Okay, so next, this is really quite interesting.

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You've uncovered some pretty important things in your book, and

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I want to start with the idea of what you

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refer to as the purpose paradox, which of course you

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refer to as the challenge, that purpose can be both

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life affirming and destructive at the same time.

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Well, here's the thing. I wrote my first book, taking Stock,

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to teach what the dying could teach us about money

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in life, because as a hospice doctor I got some

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of these really difficult questions answered. One of those big

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questions for me is what comes first, money or purpose?

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And after writing this book, I really decided that we

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should put purpose, identity, and connections first and then build

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a financial framework around it. But when I went to

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go market this book and give talks about this idea

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of putting purpose first, I got a lot of pushback.

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People yell at me and they'd say, I've been searching

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for purpose my whole life. It's pissing me off. I'm

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getting frustrated. Stop telling me to find my purpose. And so,

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of course I did a deep dive into literature and

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I found two things that totally contradict each other. The

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first is there are tons of great studies out there

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that show that having a sense of purpose in life

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is associated with health, happiness and longevity. I'm not talking

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one or two studies, sometimes tons of them. On the

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other hand, I found other studies that show that up

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to ninety one percent of people at some point in

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their life have something called purpose anxiety, this idea that

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finding their purpose causes them stress, depression, and frustration. And

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so that's why I set off to really write this book.

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How can it be both? How can it be both

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the most anxiety provoking thing as well as our savior? Right?

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Because if we had a pill we could take, then

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we could live longer, happier and healthier. We all would

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take that pill. And what I recognize is probably we

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get purpose wrong. It's probably not one thing, but two things,

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and that's the crux of our problem.

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Beautifully explain.

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I can tell you when I'm out speaking to audiences

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as well, Jordan, that on the one hand, I can

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probably feel people leaning in also just really desperately wanting

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to be able to glimpse an idea of their purpose.

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And then I also see the other but that you're

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also describing that are kind of either disgusted with the

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whole idea or have gotten frustrated, disappointed and just felt

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bad about themselves because they didn't have one.

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So it's really aligned with what.

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You talk about in your book, which is another one

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of the many reasons I wanted to have you on

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the show to talk about it, because you bring a

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very very well researched, very deep perspective, and it's also

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anchored in this notion of what we learned from people

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who are dying, which is where I want to go next.

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You say that dying tends to clarify one's feelings about life. Indeed, right,

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So if you could say a little bit about what

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you've learned from people about in regard to purpose, especially

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when they're on their death bets.

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So what I've found is that we have all these

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mirages throughout our life. These things that we're told they're

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supposed to be important, are these versions of purpose that

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other people give us. Right, So money is a huge mirage,

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and we spend a lot of time worrying about money,

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and yet we don't think about what that money is

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in you four, what are we supposed to use that

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money to accomplish? We think a lot about what people

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have told us should be purpose in our lives. We

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watch TikTok and Instagram and we have society and commercials.

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All these things are telling us what purpose should look like.

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And so if funny thing happens when you're given a

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terminal diagnosis, it lets people drop all these mirages because

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all of a sudden they realize that life is finite

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and they have very little of it left, and so

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they become very clear on what's important to them. And

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so often when I'm sitting at the deathbed with someone

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and we talk about their life in general, a lot

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of them will come out with this idea that I

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really regret that I never had the energy, courage, or

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time to do. And then they fill in the blank right,

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because for each of us it's something different. For me,

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for instance, it would have been if I had not

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traditionally published a book. I know, if God forbid I

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had gotten sick ten years ago, that would have been

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one of those huge regrets. And so it almost like

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clears the cobwebs, and for the first time, you're able

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to see very clearly not what the world wants of you,

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but you one of yourself. And I'll tell you, it's

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almost never money. It's almost never I wish I worked

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more nights and weekends. It's never. I wish my net

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worth was five hundred thousand dollars when I died, and

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it was only two hundred and fifty. It's usually about

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those deep, important things that we either had the courage

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to do or not.

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I really appreciate that. I also I am a huge

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fan of Dan Pink. I keep trying to find a

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way to get him on my podcast. He's always said,

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I'll do at least, but you got to get past

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my publicist first. She's never said yes yet anyway. So

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one thing that I also got from reading Dan Pink's

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book on Regret was he has something in there called halftime,

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and it's well, that's sorry, that's not that's maybe that's

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in his first book, Win, The Science of Win. But

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what I got from that relative to the notion of

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dying Jordan, was that he talks about teams that were

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slightly behind at halftime, be they football teams or something

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like that, oftentimes would go on to win the game

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because they had just enough juice in the tank, just

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enough to be able to see if if we push,

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we press on, we can actually win this thing. Whereas

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if you're so far behind, you're probably not going to

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make it. So I really aligned with that Jordan, because

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I felt when I was in my early fifties that

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I was at halftime and slightly behind or more than

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slightly behind. And it gave me this tremendous energy and

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pretty soon I had three or four books out because

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I was driven by that notion of well, I can

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see death in my front mirror here.

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Yeah, I mean the idea is memento mori. Right, So

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this idea, the mento moury, to carry the idea that

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we are constantly dying with us during our daily activities.

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And look, I do something called a life review right

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after a person who's on hospice has had their symptoms

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controlled and we get them to the right venue, right

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are they going to die at home or a nursing

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home or in a hospital. Once all of that settled,

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we do this life review. Is this attempt to ask

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them about the big questions of their life. What were

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the big things they accomplished, what did they fail at,

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what were their regrets, what were the most important relationships

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in their life? And let me tell you, even with

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dying patients who have weeks and months, we sometimes can

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help resolve some of those big life issues right. So

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if their goal was always to write a book, Okay,

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maybe they won't do that, but maybe they'll dictate the

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important stories of their lives to a family member who

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then will make it into a book later and pass

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that on to other family members. So if people who

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are on their deathbeds still have a hope of at

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least finding some resolution, then the rest of us have

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no excuses, right, we have no excuses. If you can

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imagine that one day I will regret something on my deathbed,

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then you have no excuse not to turn that into

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what I call a purpose anchor, which is an activity

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to start building purpose around. This is one of those

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inklings or beckonings of important things in our life, and

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that's a great way to start thinking about it. If

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I was going to die tomorrow, what would I regret?

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Let's turn that into an activity where we can start

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building some purpose.

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Amen. Amen.

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Now we already talked about some of the studies here, Jordan,

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but I did want to go into a little bit

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more depth here because I was really pretty dazzled by

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the University of Michigan's work on their retirement study, and

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you talk about how they'd interviewed about twenty thousand people

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every two years, and there were some amazing things that

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came out of that. If you could just say a

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little bit about some of the physical piece of really

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what happens with how purpose manifest in terms of our

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actual physical health.

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Yeah, I mean it's amazing. And there are number of

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studies I pointed in there, and they really you know,

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talk about the fact that people tend to live longer,

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they have less cardiovascular disease, which was amazing, less cancers,

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they get better sleep, I mean, and they're happier when

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measured objectively. So basically, like I said, if I could

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give you a pill and I'd say you live thirty

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percent longer, you'd be thirty percent happier and thirty percent healthier.

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You would take that pill. And yet we don't even

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have to take something that has side effects. We can

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start pursuing purpose and it's associated with all these benefits

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physiologic as well as mental health.

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Okay, and now I got a really burning question, what

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about how does it help our sex life?

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Well, I am not a sex life expert, but I'll

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tell you when we are happier, when we feel more comfortable,

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when we feel like we're more purpose driven in our life,

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almost everything gets better, so I would assume that would

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help that aspect of our life too, although I have

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not researched those studies.

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Specifically nicely answered and nicely danced around Jordan, beautiful. I

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couldn't help out asking you that. I know you could

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just ride with it.

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I'm a podcaster, I know how to dance.

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I know I love that about you already. Okay, So

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now I don't think I've ever come across this phrase before,

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so we must entertain it.

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The dark side of purpose.

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Well, as I was talking about, there are really two

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types of purpose, not one, and this is the mistake

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we make. There's what I call big P purpose. This

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is big, audacious purpose. And in America we say if

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you can think it, you can build it. So we're

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not just talking about a big goal. We're talking about

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becoming president or curing cancer something really really big. Big

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P purpose tends to be really difficult, right, because only

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a few people are going to become president or cure

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cancer all those kind of things, so most people fail.

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You've got to be the right person at the right time,

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saying the right things, with the right genetics and a

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whole lot of luck. And the truth of the matter

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is those things don't normally line up in our life,

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and so instead of being abundant, big p big audacious

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purpose tends to be scarcity mindset oriented. Let's talk about

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little pa purpose. Little bit purpose is the opposite. It's

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not goal oriented, it's process oriented.

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So think about all.

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The abundant things we could do that we could enjoy doing.

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And there's really no way to fail. If you stop

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enjoying doing it, you just do something else. So what's

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the dark side of purpose, Well, it's what those ninety

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one percent of people are having anxiety about. Big audacious

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purpose tends to make us feel really lousy. And a

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lot of times we co opt someone else's version of

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purpose by looking at Instagram or TikTok. So it's not

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only becoming president, it's having six pack abs, it's traveling

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the world, it's running a six or seven figure business. Again,

320
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all these things are really really hard to achieve, and

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so we go on to TikTok, we go onto Instagram.

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We saw all these influencers or maybe even some of

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our friends doing these things, and we feel horrible because

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we're not the right person at the right time with

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the right genetics and a whole bunch of luck, and

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maybe truthfully, we don't want to spend the hard work

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and the time to do these things, and so it

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makes us feel purposeless. And so we get what I

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call purpose nihilism, right, this idea that well, there must

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not be a purpose because I've been looking at all

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these things on TikTok and Instagram and I can't seem

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to achieve any of them, and so I must not

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have a purpose. And I think it leads us to

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very dark places.

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And I do too, very.

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Very very well explained, and that is exactly what we

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needed to be able to hear there, because really, when

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people like I said, I got it in the audiences

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as well. But people don't necessarily know, but they don't know.

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So the way you to explain that was beautiful a

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probably way for us to send people into the break

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so they can kind of think about that for themselves.

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I'm your host, doctor Olie Quartet. We've been on the

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air with Jordan dot G Grummitt Greater of Wealth with

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Purpose Mastermind, where he is focused on helping members integrate

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financial wellness and a sense of purpose and identity.

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We'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:34.919
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:46.120
commitment within the workforce. To learn more, or to invite

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at least to speak to your organization, please visit her

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00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.200
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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00:16:52.240 --> 00:17:01.679
your employees working on purpose. Working on Purpose with doctor

356
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.839
Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open

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00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:09.480
a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise alisee

358
00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:14.039
at eliscortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

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00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:20.920
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working

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on Purpose. I am your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as

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I am dedicated to help them create a world where

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people realize their potential at work and are led by

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inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness,

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and we do business that matters the world. I keep

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researching and writing my own books, so my last one

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came out in March of twenty twenty three. It's called

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the Great Revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose can radically

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in liig in your business and in order to help

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leaders understand the lay of today's land when it comes

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to employees the workforce, what do they want and need

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to stay with you and give you their best? And

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then I offer you twenty two best practices to help

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build a culture around that. You can find my books

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on Amazon or my personal site at leastcoretes dot com

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if you are just not joining us. My guest is

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Jordan Grummot, effectually known as Doc G. He's the host

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of the Earn and Invest podcast, author of the Purpose Code,

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how to Unlock Meaning, maximize happiness, and leave a lasting legacy,

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and many other things. Okay, so now let's talk a

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little bit about what happens when that purpose anxiety starts

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to manifest and we're not really sure what's going on here.

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So you talk about showing up and there's in some

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clear cut psychological distresses and it was pretty intrigued by

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some of those manifestations.

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Can you share those with us?

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Certainly so. Some of the signs and symptoms of purpose anxiety,

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even though we don't identify it, things like job hopping.

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So we see this all the time that young people

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hop from job to job to job. And you know

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a lot of people say, well, it's to make more money,

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but often what also happens is they find that the

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job isn't fulfilling them. They have this idea of purpose.

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This doesn't feel purposeful to them, It feels stressful, they're

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not meeting their needs, and they jump from job to

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job to job. Another one is imposter syndrome. Foster syndrome

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00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:07.160
is being in a job and feeling like you don't

397
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have what it takes to do that job. And we

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00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:12.359
think of that as a normal thing actually when you're

399
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stretching yourself and you're growing and you're learning, But it

400
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:17.880
also can be a fear and anxiety that maybe this

401
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.160
isn't feeling very great or purposeful, or you weren't meant

402
00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:23.359
to do this job. And so there's a lot of

403
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:27.319
purpose anxiety there. And maybe the most important is just

404
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:32.039
this idea that there's this big version of purpose and

405
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.240
you either find it the one thing and you live

406
00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:39.200
your best life, or you miss it and everything is lost.

407
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And so I think those are some ways that we

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show our signs of feeling purpose anxiety in our everyday life.

409
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:49.680
It's amazing.

410
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.319
Yeah, And I think a lot of people listeners are

411
00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:53.279
gonna be like, yes, oh my gosh, he's talking to me,

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He's talking about me. One of the things that I

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00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.440
have really laid my foundation on for me, Jordan, in

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00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:02.119
terms of the work that I do today, is when

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I did my PhD years ago, I studied meaning and

416
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.880
work and identity, and then I did postdoc research on

417
00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:09.319
that and found these fifteen modes of engagement that are

418
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:12.880
based on the extent, the level, the kind of meaning,

419
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the depth of meaning that I mapped over to Maslow's hierarchy,

420
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as well as the extent to which the work related

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to the person. Was it an expression of them, Did

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00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:24.119
it resonate and just fit them? You know it was

423
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:26.759
it was it detached or in conflict to them, something

424
00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:29.519
like that. And so I was really intrigued with your

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00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.640
story of Celia and how she really was following the

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footsteps of her mother when it came to the charity,

427
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I think, the soup kitchen and what the disconnect was.

428
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So if you could share that story, because I want

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00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.359
to explocate, because I think what happens too is people

430
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:46.680
don't understand what is the disconnect. That's why also why

431
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.000
they job hop is they don't understand what's missing or

432
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what are they trying to find.

433
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.240
So Celia is a great example of the difference between

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little pe purpose and big pe purpose. Celia's parents ran

435
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a restaurant. They were very, very successful, and they started

436
00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:03.480
to charitable arm where they had a soup kitchen and

437
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:08.079
had a homeless shelter. And Celia joyfully worked in those

438
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places and she loved the moment to moment. She loved

439
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:14.200
being there, she loved handing out food, she loved being

440
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.599
with the people. Unfortunately, her mom became terminally ill, which

441
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is when I met her, and eventually died in hospice,

442
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:24.160
And to Celia's surprise, her mom had decided to work

443
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with the board to basically have Celia take her place

444
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:30.880
when she died, because her mother was really the chairman

445
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:35.440
of all these charitable organizations. The problem was that pulled

446
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:38.400
Celia out of doing the things she loved, the things

447
00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:40.559
she loved the process of doing right we're talking about

448
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.000
the moment to moment. She loved being there and being

449
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with the people, and she became an administrator, so she

450
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:50.160
had to go raise revenue, raise money, go to board meetings,

451
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all these things that she didn't particularly enjoy. So the

452
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.599
interesting thing is her goal was the same. She wanted

453
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to help the homeless. But the problem was when she

454
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took over her mom's role, her goal became much bigger too.

455
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It was like, Okay, well, we're helping in this shelter,

456
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and we're helping these individual peoples, but maybe we need

457
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to start serving the community better by opening up more shelters,

458
00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:13.559
opening up more soup kitchens. And so she was, in

459
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:15.839
a sense doing some of the similar things. She was

460
00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:19.079
helping the homeless, but the process had changed. It changed

461
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.319
from something she loved doing is something she didn't like doing,

462
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which was sitting in boardrooms. It became a version of

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big Peeper, but something where she loved the goal but

464
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.039
didn't like the process of doing it, and so she

465
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.759
burned out. She no longer felt like it was serving her.

466
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.000
And I think this happens to a lot of us.

467
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.000
We liked this idea of this big goal. For Celia,

468
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:42.039
it was serving the homeless, but we lose track of

469
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:44.680
enjoying the moment to moment process. And the more we

470
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:47.359
double down and the bigger we make the plans not

471
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.200
just one shelter, but two shelters, three shelters, not just

472
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:54.559
feeding a neighborhood but feeding a whole city. The goals

473
00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:56.759
get so much bigger we start spending our time doing

474
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.640
things we don't enjoy to meet that goal. So Celia

475
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:02.960
was in board meetings and writing up grants and all

476
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.160
these kind of things she didn't particularly like. That's the

477
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:08.359
trap a lot of us fall into, especially when we

478
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.519
focus so much on the goal that we forget to

479
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:11.640
enjoy the process.

480
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:16.440
Yeah, and the way that I would conceptualize what you

481
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.880
were describing there is, you know, those are very very

482
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.519
very different activities. When you're actually in the soup kitchen,

483
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:24.480
labeling the soup to a homeless person and maybe having

484
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.640
a conversation with them, looking in their eyes, giving them

485
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.480
some sense of hope and encouragement, that is radically different

486
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:34.640
activity than when you're writing grants or you're looking and

487
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:37.720
scouting for other locations totter. Those are radically different activities.

488
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:42.200
And so as a logo therapist, I know you talk

489
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.480
about meaning as a cognitive sort of endeavor largely in

490
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:49.480
the past, and purpose being something that is more what

491
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.519
action oriented in the present. In the future as a

492
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.559
logo therapist. You know, how we look at meaning is

493
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:58.799
meaning is always registered along our value system. So what

494
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.599
you find meaningful from what I find meaningful because we

495
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:05.960
have different values and therefore that it also is really

496
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.480
has got an emotional component to it. That's what makes

497
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:12.079
it sticky. So what I would say to her for

498
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:14.559
her is, you know she was really she didn't find

499
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.720
as much meaning in those activities that she was doing

500
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.039
as you know, the administrative and she was when she

501
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:22.039
was on the front lines. And this is what I

502
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:24.279
want to all of our listeners and viewers to think

503
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:27.160
about for themselves and consider is you know, what are

504
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.880
you doing? If you isolate the actual activities, you can

505
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.279
start to recognize if this is a little P or

506
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:34.599
a big P for you, and if this is the

507
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.559
right kind of work for you or not. Because if

508
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:39.319
you're not enjoying the day to day there there is

509
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:40.880
probably something amiss here for you.

510
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:43.759
And I would argue that your impact on legacy is

511
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:48.000
actually bigger when you do things you enjoy the process

512
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:50.240
of doing these little p purposes. So what happened to Ceily,

513
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.680
what happens to everyone. What happened to me as a doctor.

514
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.680
Is we burn out, Yeah, because the work no longer

515
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.279
fulfills us, even if the idea of the goal. The

516
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:02.119
bigger the goal, the harder we have to work. The

517
00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:04.759
more we don't enjoy the work, the faster we burn out.

518
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:08.200
Whereas when we do those little things that light us up,

519
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:11.440
it changes the world around us. We collaborate with people,

520
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:13.839
we connect with people in a different way, we form

521
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:18.000
these communities, and that changes the world. And I think

522
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:21.039
often we forget that because we again were really trained

523
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:24.119
to believe that big and audacious is better, and in

524
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:25.279
this case, I don't think it is.

525
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.079
Mmmmmm. I think you just have.

526
00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:31.880
You're providing such important instruction and hope for people, Jordan,

527
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.839
and I'm right there with you. So you've also helped

528
00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:37.039
to clarify and crisp my message a little bit too.

529
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.119
So I really appreciate that. One of the many reasons

530
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.200
I keep hosting the show because I need amazing people

531
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.079
like you who encourage my thinking and my learning and

532
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.519
champion something. Further, So, what we were just kind of

533
00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:50.640
talking about there, when you were talking about legacy and connection,

534
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:53.519
one of the things that I thought was interesting much

535
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:55.519
I had come across to in some of my previous

536
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.599
other studies was the research that you talk about in

537
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:04.400
terms of longevity, et cetera and overall happiness and what's

538
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:08.359
really under that, what's under that overall happiness is ultimately

539
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:10.680
positive social relationships.

540
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:15.000
Yeah, so I grew up in the personal finance space, right,

541
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.599
So after I moved out of doing so much physician work,

542
00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:21.319
I really did a deep dive into personal finance, which

543
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.960
led me to purpose and so a lot of there's

544
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:26.160
a lot of arguments about money and happiness, and we

545
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.519
can go over the studies, but there's some major sentinel

546
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:31.319
studies which suggest there's a connection to money and happiness,

547
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:34.759
but they're just not the greatest studies. They're retrospective, which

548
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:38.119
means they take data that was already collected. These data

549
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:40.960
has been collected for short periods of time. There's something

550
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.920
called the Harvard Adult Developmental Health Study, which started in

551
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:47.640
like the nineteen thirties and it's been ongoing for eighty years.

552
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:50.319
And they took people and studied them every two years.

553
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.039
They made them do questionnaires, and then eventually they started

554
00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.759
doing MRIs and EEGs and blood tests and all sorts

555
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.920
of analyzes on these asking that one basic question what

556
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:02.400
makes people happy? And it's funny, after eighty years they

557
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:07.079
came to conclusion it wasn't money, it wasn't achievements, it

558
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.359
wasn't your job, and it wasn't even purpose. And I'll

559
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:11.759
talk about that in a moment. What it was were

560
00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:14.359
these interpersonal connections. Now I could hear a bunch of

561
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:16.759
people listen to just right now going. But you just said,

562
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.519
all the studies show that purposes associated with happiness. Well,

563
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:22.240
here's the thing. I think when you are involved in

564
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:25.319
little p purpose, it lights you up when you show

565
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.440
up as your best self, and that's what connects you

566
00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:30.279
to other people, like a moth to a flame. Other

567
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.440
people are attracted to you. They want to work with you.

568
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:34.039
If they have something to teach you, they want to

569
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:35.559
be your teacher. If they have something to learn from you,

570
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:38.279
they want to be your student. And that's where those

571
00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:42.559
interpersonal connections come in. And it's a very different level.

572
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:46.799
So they're different types of communities, their identity communities. Right ones,

573
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:49.559
I live in Chicago, so I'm part of the Chicago community.

574
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:51.480
Or maybe I was born to a certain religion, so

575
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:55.000
I'm part of that community. But communities of internal purpose

576
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.319
are communities that we come to because we have shared

577
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:02.559
common beliefs, values, or an interest in a particular subject.

578
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:04.559
And so when we become part of these communities of

579
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:08.240
internal purpose, we really connect with people in a much

580
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:10.640
deeper way, and I think that's where the happiness really

581
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.240
comes from. So little pea purpose is a great conduit

582
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:17.759
to community connections, those interpersonal relationships that I think happiness

583
00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:18.680
is really connected to.

584
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.039
All Right, two things on that, Jordan. One, what you're

585
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:24.880
just talking about here with this connectedness now and this

586
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.720
these connections you I'm sure probably know that the Attorney

587
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.799
General or surgeon general has said that loneliness has become

588
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:36.200
an epidemic. It is the equivalent in terms of detrimental

589
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:39.200
tooryal health to smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. So all

590
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:41.119
we have to do is step into these these little

591
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.000
p purpose activities to be able to find our tribe.

592
00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:48.640
And so now we've also helped to eradicate that epidemic.

593
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:51.359
So that's I want to put that out there.

594
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.279
And I even want to add something. We're not going

595
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.559
to go into politics here, but I actually think a

596
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.000
lot of our political problems are because of this purpose crisis.

597
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.279
We have a lot of people who feel disconnected to

598
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.279
their neighbors. Right, fifty percent feel one way and fifty

599
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:10.200
percent feel the other. But a lot of this is

600
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:13.039
because there's a crisis of purpose and we're not building

601
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:15.880
these communities of internal purpose, and because of that, we

602
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:18.960
don't have that connectedness to other people who think differently

603
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:21.480
than we do. So a few months ago, I was

604
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:23.640
at a personal finance conference and we were talking about

605
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:26.240
politics before the election, and this guy who I really

606
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:28.680
respect and we see eyed I on on eight out

607
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.720
of ten things, said I'm not going to vote this

608
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.319
year because I don't like either candidates. Now, if I

609
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:37.799
had encountered that guy on the internet on Facebook and

610
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:40.640
didn't know him very well, I would have either ignored him,

611
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.640
unfriended him, or fought with him. But because it was

612
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:47.319
someone that I was part of an intern community of

613
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:50.039
internal purpose, I was much more likely to actually sit

614
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:51.759
down and talk to him and really flesh out his

615
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.720
ideas and really listen when he told me how he

616
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:58.640
was feeling. What if we did this across our country,

617
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:00.319
where we were connected with these people, and we could

618
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.319
sit down to people who are connected to for other

619
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:06.400
reasons and then hash out some of these political differences,

620
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:10.039
how much better conversations could we have? How much less

621
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:11.079
anger could we have?

622
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:13.440
Short and grummit for president.

623
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:16.480
I don't think I'd be very good at it.

624
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:19.519
I think that's beautiful.

625
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:21.680
In my neighborhood here in Dallas, close in East Dallas,

626
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.200
there are signs in some of my neighbors loans that say.

627
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.279
Can we talk if we voted differently? Can we still

628
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.720
be friends if we voted differently? I just think that's great.

629
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:31.000
So Okay.

630
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.119
The other point that I wanted to raise about the

631
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.160
back what you were saying about with money and happiness,

632
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.039
et cetera. You got to tell the story of Dietrich Dietrich.

633
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.880
You know that he's a perfect example of what I

634
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:45.759
and what I think people misconstrue about money and how

635
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:47.000
it's supposed to make you happy.

636
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.839
Well, Dietrich gets close to my heart because I come

637
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:53.640
from a cohort of people very like him. So I

638
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.400
grew up in the financial independence retire early community. It's

639
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.480
a community where a lot of people who don't like

640
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:00.200
their jobs, so they try to make as much money

641
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.279
as possible so they can live off their investments and

642
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:04.839
not work anymore. And Ddrik was very much like that

643
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:07.160
he liked parts of his job. He was a computer programmer,

644
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.319
and he liked some of it, but he didn't like

645
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.680
working for someone else. And so he built up this

646
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.519
mirage of wealth that hey, if I just have enough money,

647
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:17.240
I can stop working and everything I'll be great. The

648
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:19.720
problem was he stopped working and had no idea what

649
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:21.680
he wanted it to do with himself. So, just like

650
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:23.519
everyone else, he played video games for a while, he

651
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:26.039
went on some vacations, he sat on the couch and

652
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:31.039
did nothing, and that got really old after a few months,

653
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:34.559
and so then he had to do the hard work

654
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:36.839
of trying to figure out what purpose really looked like

655
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.880
in his life. And he actually realized that he liked

656
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:43.039
computer programming, maybe not for his job, maybe not for

657
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:48.319
an employer, but started volunteering his time for groups of

658
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:51.039
programmers who then would do work for non for profits,

659
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:51.559
et cetera.

660
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:53.000
And so.

661
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:57.839
It really speaks to this idea that money solves money problems.

662
00:31:57.880 --> 00:31:59.720
And so if you don't have enough money, getting to

663
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.319
the where you have enough money to provide food and

664
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:05.359
shelter and all those basics is really really important. But

665
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:08.480
after you get past a certain point, having enough money

666
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.279
won't fix other things in your life. It's like oxygen.

667
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:14.440
If you don't have enough oxygen, all you can think

668
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:17.119
about is where you're getting your next breath. But once

669
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:20.039
you have enough oxygen to survive and be comfortable, giving

670
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:24.079
you more oxygen doesn't make you feel any better. And

671
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:25.839
I think money very much is like that. And that's

672
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:29.480
what Dietrich learned is that it was great having enough

673
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:32.799
money to be able to quit work, but it wasn't

674
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:35.640
incrementally improving his life. He had to actually go out

675
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.839
and build a life of purpose, one that he really

676
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:39.079
deeply enjoyed.

677
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:41.640
And he found people that he really cared about it

678
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:43.039
who cared about him in the process.

679
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:44.720
Just again, we get.

680
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:48.440
Back to those interpersonal connections in community. The Harvard Developmental

681
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:52.680
Health Study really says it all, and so I think we'll,

682
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:56.440
you know, we see these examples of people who when

683
00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:59.680
they are connected to communities feel a different kind of

684
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.160
way health. But when I think that's much more healthy

685
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:03.759
and nurturing.

686
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:08.000
Agreed, And on that note, let's take our last break.

687
00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:09.920
I am Alice Cortez, your host. We are on the

688
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.119
area with Jordan Grummitt, who is affectionately called Doc G.

689
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:16.319
He's the creator of Wealth with Purpose Mastermind, where he

690
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:19.440
is focused on helping members integrate financial wellness with a

691
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:22.039
sense of purpose and identity. We've been talking a bit

692
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.400
about how some of the examples in his book illustrate

693
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:28.200
little P and big P purpose. After the break, we're

694
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.960
going to talk first about this concept of the climb

695
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:32.480
that he has. We'll be right back.

696
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:51.200
Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

697
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:55.079
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

698
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:58.960
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

699
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:03.000
leadership and meaning infuse cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

700
00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:06.279
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

701
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.039
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

702
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:12.360
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

703
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:21.159
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

704
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:24.559
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

705
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:27.360
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

706
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:32.840
a lease a LISEE at elisecortes dot com. Now back

707
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:34.199
to working on Purpose.

708
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:41.480
Thanks for starting with us, and welcome back to working

709
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.039
on Purpose. I am your host, Doctor Elise Cortes. I

710
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:46.840
mentioned my last book, The Great Vitization, came out recently.

711
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:49.320
What I did for you is I created a simple,

712
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:52.119
three page, free organizational assessment for you to be able

713
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:54.440
to determine the extent to which your current culture is

714
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:57.559
meeting the needs of today's discerning workforce. You can find

715
00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.760
it at gustodeshnow dot com if you are just now

716
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:03.199
joining us. My guest is Jordan Grummit. He's the host

717
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:05.719
of the Earn and Invest podcast and the author of

718
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.960
the Purpose Code, How to Unlock meaning, maximize happiness and

719
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:13.760
leave a lasting legacy. So, as I mentioned before we broke,

720
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.119
I really love your concept of the climb. I think

721
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:19.880
it's I think it's simple, it's alluring, it really speaks

722
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:26.280
to action. It's it's actionable, it's it's doable. So what's

723
00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:26.840
the climb?

724
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.000
So people all the time come up to me and say,

725
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.159
how do I find my purpose? And I say, well,

726
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:35.159
you don't find your purpose, you build or create it.

727
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.519
So it's very action focused. And they say, well what

728
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:41.280
do I build purpose around? And I say, there's something

729
00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:44.599
called purpose anchors. These things, inklings, these beckonings, these things

730
00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.119
we should build purpose around. We talked about one of

731
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.480
those exercise to figure those out, which is to ask

732
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:51.559
yourself that question about what would you regret if you

733
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:53.599
found out you were dying, and then turn that into

734
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:56.199
a purpose anchor to build some purpose around. So, once

735
00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:58.960
you have your purpose anchors, these things that light you up,

736
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:03.159
then it's time to build some activities around those. And

737
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:05.960
those are the climbs. And so the goal is that

738
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.079
we have many climbs in our life. That there's this

739
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:11.039
huge abundance because there's a million different purpose anchors. We

740
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:13.920
could have a million different things that could excite us,

741
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.719
and then for each thing that excites us, we can

742
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:19.880
start building different activities around them. So let me give

743
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.800
you my favorite example of the clients. My purpose anchor

744
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:27.880
is public speaking. I love public speaking, and so that's

745
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.280
a purpose anchor for me. I know because it's an inkling,

746
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:32.039
it's a beckoning. When I get up in front of

747
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:35.840
a crowd, I just it's I feel alive. And so

748
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:37.239
that was a purpose anchor. But then I had to

749
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:38.840
do the hard work, which is build a life of

750
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.000
purpose around it. So I built a series of climbs

751
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:43.000
around that. One is I started working at a speaker's Bureau.

752
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:45.360
So I developed a certain number of talks that I

753
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.960
give on a regular basis. I ended up signing up

754
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:50.880
for Speakers Bureau. So now I've built purposeful activities where

755
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.280
I go to different conferences and I speak about these

756
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:55.599
things that are deeply important to me. That was one client.

757
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.360
Let's talk about another client. I do a podcast called

758
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:01.519
or in an Event, so one of my favorite things

759
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:03.920
is to be behind the mic and interview other people.

760
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.480
And in fact, this is why it's little pea purpose

761
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:08.480
for me, because even if at the end of that

762
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:10.880
hour I put out my episode, no one listens to it,

763
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:14.000
it was still an hour that was well used. So

764
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:17.400
for me, that's another climb. Now you can build some

765
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:20.360
incremental gain into your client. So it's not that you

766
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.239
don't have to have goals. You can have some goals

767
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.760
like I might have a goal of becoming a better interviewer.

768
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.440
So maybe I will watch really good interviewers. I'll listen

769
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:31.719
to their podcasts, I'll take notes, and I'll try to

770
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:34.480
incorporate some of those things into my podcast. Something I

771
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.440
have agency over, I have control over. That's still a

772
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.280
little pea purpose. What if I changed things around and

773
00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:40.960
I say my goal now is to have a million

774
00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:43.920
downloads on my podcast every month. Well, that just turned

775
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:46.320
little P purpose into big P purpose, because you know what,

776
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:49.280
that's a really hard thing to achieve, and really to

777
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.400
get there, I'll probably start doing things I don't love

778
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:54.280
doing to get more audience, because I'm gonna have to

779
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:56.199
get on Instagram, I'm i have to get on TikTok,

780
00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:58.039
I'm gonna have to make a bunch of reels and videos,

781
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:00.480
and you know what, I don't really like the process

782
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:02.840
of doing those things. So I just took my little

783
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:05.320
P purpose, my climb, this thing I love doing, this

784
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:08.239
purpose and action, which is what a climb is, and

785
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.079
turned it into big P purpose, which means I stop

786
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:13.480
enjoying it. And so that's what we want to avoid.

787
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:17.559
So exciting, right, And I'm with you on both of

788
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:20.079
those counts. The speaking in the podcast, there's a reason

789
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.119
I've done my podcast for a ten years, been speaking

790
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.679
for I don't know a lot of decades anyway.

791
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:28.519
So let's talk about some.

792
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:30.960
Of the things that we shouldn't be doing in climes

793
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.639
so that would indicate that we're not actually in climb.

794
00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:36.199
There's five that you talk about in the book that

795
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.519
I think it's important to recognize the properties that are

796
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:42.239
associated with this is not what you mean by climb.

797
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:45.599
Yeah, I mean I think there's some few obvious ones.

798
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:50.719
First and foremost is when the goal becomes everything. Right,

799
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.000
So when you go, like I said, from having a

800
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:55.320
small goal of hey, I could become a better interviewer

801
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.599
to a big goal which is hard to attain, like

802
00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.400
I want to get a million downloads a month, that's

803
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:03.559
a pretty good sign that your clim has gone bad

804
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.079
when you don't enjoy the process anymore in general, right

805
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:09.079
when you're like, geez, I gotta do that podcast again,

806
00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:12.840
I really don't feel like interviewing this person, et cetera,

807
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:16.719
et cetera. Those are kind of some of the main signs.

808
00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:18.639
I'm trying to remember what all the five signs are

809
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:20.360
that I got them, no worries, I got you.

810
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:21.400
Yeah.

811
00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:23.400
So you also say that being on your client must

812
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:24.079
bring you joy.

813
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:25.039
Yeah.

814
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:25.320
Yeah.

815
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:27.519
If you're not enjoying the process, then it's a waste

816
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:29.800
of time and you should start working on another climb.

817
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:33.639
I love this one. You say you cannot fail your climb.

818
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:40.960
So the problem is that big b purpose is very failable,

819
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:44.719
and so the idea behind most of little p purposes

820
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.039
that it's so abundant, right, it's just doing things you enjoy,

821
00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:50.199
and if you find you're not enjoying them anymore, you

822
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.239
just start doing something else. So again, this possibility of failing,

823
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:54.840
it's not really there. You just kind of do the

824
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:58.119
thing and either enjoy it or you don't. Again, because

825
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:01.320
you've taken the goal out of focus or goal agnostic,

826
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:03.039
you really don't care if you succeed or not.

827
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:06.719
Yeah, and then you talk about what you mentioned a

828
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.599
little bit earlier that climbs can incorporate incremental gain.

829
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:13.679
And again I think incremental gain is great, but it

830
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:15.639
has to be stuff you have agency over, right, So

831
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:19.119
it's not things that are outside of you. It's what

832
00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:22.599
can I do that's very achievable. I can, you know, again,

833
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:26.199
study other podcasters. I can increase my followers by being

834
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:28.079
a little bit more engaged in social media and do

835
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:29.719
it in a way that brings me joy. But once

836
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.440
I start doing in a way that doesn't bring me

837
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:34.880
joy again, things have kind of lost their way.

838
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.079
And the last one is really playful. You say, and

839
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:39.800
I quote, monogamy is optional when it comes to purpose.

840
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:43.159
It's funny So I do a lot of coaching about

841
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:45.760
purpose and people start with I have no idea what

842
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:47.239
my purpose is, and by the end of a few

843
00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:49.719
sessions they're like, oh my god, there are so many

844
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:52.480
purpose makers and so many climes. I don't know what

845
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.119
to do. And my answer is, you know, take a dart,

846
00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:57.519
throw it against the dart board, and two or three

847
00:40:57.559 --> 00:40:59.360
of them. Whatever it hits, you do those two or

848
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.639
three and are just extra. I have all sorts of

849
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:04.960
purpose anchors and clients that I just don't have time for.

850
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:08.000
Pick two or three. If they work, great. If you

851
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.000
want to incorporate new ones in great. If you are

852
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:13.880
just so enthralled with one that it fills up all

853
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.880
your time, that's also great. There really are no rules,

854
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:20.840
but certainly you do not have to be monogamous.

855
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:23.920
M hm oh. A few more things.

856
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:25.800
I want to be able to get extraction before we

857
00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:28.559
end up having to get to close. So what I

858
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:31.320
want to go to next, which I just think is incredible,

859
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:35.840
is you talk about why people themselves cannot be purpose.

860
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:37.679
And I can't tell how often I hear you know,

861
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:40.760
my kids are my purpose or whatever, So let's definitely

862
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:41.320
talk about that.

863
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:43.400
Why can't I think people be this.

864
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:46.159
Yeah, I mean, I think there are two really good reasons.

865
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:48.440
Let's talk about the simple one and the more complicated one.

866
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:50.400
The simple one is your kids grow up and move on.

867
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:54.559
And so if people are your foss out the door, yeah.

868
00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:56.679
They do, and they get married and they have their

869
00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:58.920
own families and maybe their spouse doesn't even like you,

870
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:01.360
and before you know it, or they move. And so

871
00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:03.559
if you make that your full version of purpose, you

872
00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:07.920
will at some point find yourself lost when those people

873
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:09.480
move on and do what they're gonna do. Or your

874
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:11.920
friends are your purpose. But what happens when you retire

875
00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:14.559
and they're still working, They're not around. So you have

876
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:16.840
to be really careful for that reason. But there's another

877
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:18.960
more important reason that especially has to do with your

878
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.360
kids and has to do with what I call generational growth.

879
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.000
This is what I mean by generational growth. Let me

880
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:27.719
show you the opposite. The opposite is generational trauma. That's

881
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:32.079
when our forebears, our parents, our grandparents that are pass

882
00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:35.760
on unhealthy ways of dealing with things because the trauma

883
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:38.000
they went through. And we see this all the time.

884
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:40.920
People who grew up during the depression often have money

885
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:43.480
issues and they pass the idea of scarcity and running

886
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:46.079
out of money to their children, their children pass it

887
00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:47.800
on to their children, and before you know it, it's

888
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:50.679
just going generation to generation to generation. We often don't

889
00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:53.119
talk about the opposite, which is generational growth. We not

890
00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:55.760
only hand down bad things, but we can also model

891
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:58.920
these really good behaviors. So why, as a parent do

892
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:01.519
you not want your children to be your purpose? Because

893
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:04.840
you want them to see you doing something that lights

894
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:07.320
you up, something that feels a lot like little prepurpose.

895
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:11.119
Why because when they get older, you want them to

896
00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:14.440
have permission to live lives where they're lit up and

897
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:17.960
being their most intentional and best self. And the only

898
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.320
way to teach them that is to have them see

899
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:24.039
you doing that. Otherwise they're going to have the same modeling.

900
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:26.039
If you make them their purpose, they're going to make

901
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:28.199
their own kids their purpose. And guess what, maybe they

902
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:31.280
don't get married, maybe biologically they can't have kids, maybe

903
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:33.880
it's just not the right place, right time, and we're

904
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:38.119
setting them up to be possibly unhappy just for this

905
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:41.920
one biological thing. I think we need to show them

906
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:44.400
and model for them what being happy and lit up

907
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:47.000
looks like, because ultimately that's truly what we want for

908
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:47.480
our kids.

909
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.119
I completely agree with that. I was one of the

910
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:52.199
points of the bookhere. I was like, yes, I completely agree.

911
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.480
This is why I embarrass myself in public when I'm

912
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:57.159
reading it in public. But okay, so next, what I

913
00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:00.800
want to do is I want to showcase something pretty

914
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:04.039
interesting about you, is that in your history you discovered

915
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.119
that you really had enough money where you didn't have

916
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:09.920
to work. You were sufficiently you have accumulated enough that

917
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:11.440
you didn't have to work. And now here you are,

918
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:15.000
of course, helping other people to invest and learn how

919
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:16.920
to invest. So let's talk a little bit about what

920
00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:19.440
you're doing. How are you helping in this mastermind community.

921
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:25.280
Well, it's funny when I realized as financial independent, I

922
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:28.039
had been modeled really great financial behavior by my parents.

923
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:29.840
So I was a doctor, I was saving all sorts

924
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.000
of money, I owned real estate, I was invested in

925
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:34.719
the stock market. I did all these things right for decades,

926
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:37.639
not knowing what it all meant. And then this guy,

927
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:40.519
Jim Dally, sent me his book called The White Code Investor,

928
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:44.599
which laid out financial independence, and I could do the calculations,

929
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:47.079
and I was like, oh my god, I have enough money,

930
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:49.440
I can actually walk away from this thing that I

931
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:53.679
don't love anymore. But the problem was I didn't know

932
00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:55.960
what purpose and identity then look like. This was the

933
00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:57.840
only thing I had ever known, and so it took

934
00:44:57.880 --> 00:44:59.639
me a number of years to a subtract out what

935
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:02.480
I did like about my job. I was left with hospice,

936
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:05.119
the one part that I really did love, and then

937
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.000
I had to start trying to decide, well, what does

938
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:10.920
purpose look like in my life. Here's the funny thing.

939
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:13.800
You have enough money, you can never work again. But

940
00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:17.639
work actually enriches us and makes us feel good. And

941
00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:19.960
we might get paid and call it employment. But a

942
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:22.960
lot of times when we're done getting employed and we

943
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:25.119
have enough money, we still do things that are work.

944
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:27.800
Maybe that's hobbies, maybe that's cleaning up the house, maybe

945
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:31.239
that's building or creating something. But that's also work. We

946
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:33.760
just aren't connecting the money to it. So I had

947
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:36.480
to figure out what I wanted to do with my life,

948
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:39.639
and I realized that there is these things that lit

949
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:44.000
me up. Studying, personal finance lit me up, public speaking, podcasting, writing,

950
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:48.400
All these things lit me up, And strangely enough, there

951
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.199
was a busy doctor burned out and working sixty hours

952
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:54.800
a week. You know, eight years later, I am a

953
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:58.440
busy creator, working probably seventy eighty ninety hours a week,

954
00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:02.440
constantly working during vacations, et cetera. But it doesn't feel

955
00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:06.039
like work, because it just feels like life, Like Saturday

956
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:08.920
is no different than Thursday or Wednesday or Tuesday. Ten

957
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:11.000
in the morning is no different than a ten at night.

958
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:13.519
I work kind of in my own circadian rhythms. I

959
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:15.199
take lots of breaks, I do lots of reading, I

960
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:18.280
do lots of exercise, But at ten thirty at night,

961
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:20.400
I might decide to write a blog post and feel

962
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:24.159
energetic and excited. And so what I've really found is

963
00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:26.599
that I've been able to build a very busy life,

964
00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:28.280
one in fact where I don't sleep enough because I'm

965
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:29.679
so excited and I jump out of bed in the

966
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:32.719
morning to do things, but a life in which everything

967
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:34.719
on my schedule I put there, and I can get

968
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.880
rid of any of it at any time whenever I want.

969
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.039
And so I'm busier than ever quote unquote retired. But

970
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:44.880
the things I do fill me up much more. And

971
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:47.199
so I think I've got to this point where I

972
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:50.880
don't even really recognize the difference between vacation and work.

973
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:55.280
It's just all life. I understand.

974
00:46:55.400 --> 00:46:58.280
I really get that, and I think that's important because

975
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:00.079
people say, oh, Lesh, you work too much, but I

976
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:01.159
don't think about it as work.

977
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:01.639
Same thing.

978
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:05.719
It's Saturday and Thursday or condosselar for me. Okay, we're

979
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:07.400
getting close to the end here. I would love to

980
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.159
have you close, but let me kind of give you

981
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:12.920
something to start from here, and you close however you like.

982
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:15.559
But I love how you finish your book on page

983
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.360
two hundred with this you say in closing. I wish

984
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:20.400
for you to have a life of little pe purpose.

985
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:22.760
I wish for you to use that purpose to build

986
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:25.719
communities of people you love and who love you. I

987
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:28.800
hope that you I hope that you become your teachers

988
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:31.280
and students, mentors and friends. I wish for you to

989
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:34.280
impact so many people that, like the pebble dropped in

990
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:37.639
the ocean, your legacy will last decades and centuries after

991
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.079
you have left this world. That is a beautiful way

992
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:41.599
to finish a book.

993
00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:46.599
I think when you do things that are deeply important

994
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:52.039
to you, you change the world locally and its impact

995
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.840
ends up being globally. We've made it way too confusing

996
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:58.960
and way too difficult. We spent way too much time

997
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:02.679
looking on Instagram, TikTok and listening to the age Ola

998
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:06.639
device of what we're supposed to do with ourselves, and

999
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:09.599
it's confused us, and it's made us anxious, and it's

1000
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.199
made us believe that there's this thing out there that

1001
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:13.880
if we just get it, it's going to make our

1002
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:17.760
lives great. And the truth of the matter is that

1003
00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:20.800
most of greatness comes from doing things that bring you

1004
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:23.519
immense joy, and if you just do more of that,

1005
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:26.039
everything else will fall into place.

1006
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:29.639
Amen. Brother, what a way to finish Jordan.

1007
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:32.000
It is an absolute delight to know you, to learn

1008
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:33.760
from you and now be connected with you. You can

1009
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:36.039
run from me, but you cannot hide. I'm pretty fast

1010
00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:38.599
on my feet. Thank you so much for having me.

1011
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:39.400
I appreciate it.

1012
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:41.400
I'm thoroughly enjoyed. Your listeners of yours.

1013
00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:43.239
You are going to want to learn more about Jordan

1014
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:46.159
Grummitt and the work he's doing, his books, his podcast.

1015
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:48.960
You can learn about him on his website. His personal

1016
00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:51.239
website it's Jordan Grummant dot com. Let me spell that

1017
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:55.480
for you, Jordan, j O. R. D. A. N. Grummitt

1018
00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:58.559
g r U M E t So Jordan Grummant dot com.

1019
00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:00.760
Last week, if you miss the live show, you can

1020
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:02.960
always catch it via recorded podcast. We were on the

1021
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:06.039
air with Janet Ioli talking about her work elevating leaders

1022
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:09.320
and her book called Less Ego, More Soul, a modern

1023
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:11.719
reinvention guide for women, though it also works for men.

1024
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:14.519
Next week will be on the air with Christy Smith,

1025
00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:17.159
who is formerly of Accenture, Apple and Deloitte and is

1026
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:20.320
now the founder of the Humanity Studio, talking about her

1027
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:25.159
co authored book Essential, how distributed teams generate AI and

1028
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:29.960
global shifts are creating the new human powered leadership. Promised

1029
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.440
it to be pretty intense and pretty deep. See you then,

1030
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:34.159
and remember that work is one of the best means

1031
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:36.880
and adventures and realizing our potential and making the impact

1032
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:37.360
we crave.

1033
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:39.280
So let's work on Purpose.

1034
00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:44.840
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

1035
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:48.519
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

1036
00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:52.000
each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a

1037
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:56.639
world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance,

1038
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:59.480
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

1039
00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:03.320
and purpose They crave see you there. Let's work on purpose.

1040
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:07.519
Mm hmm