Wonder: The Surprisingly Accessible Emotion that Makes Everything Better

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want Working on Purpose. Now here's your host, Doctor Release Cortez. Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program. Thanks tuning again this week. Great to have you. This show has been live on air since February of twenty fifteen, and I bring it to you with great passion and pride. I'm doctor Elisee Cortes. If we've not met yet before, I am an organizational psychologist and logo therapist, speaker and author, and my team and I at Gusto now help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by articulating their purpose and building inspirational leaders and cultures activated by meaning and purpose to turn those companies from a flat ekg line to a vibrant destination workplace. There

1:34 people are intrinsically motivated to perform at their best, can grow into their fuller potential, and are committed to stay in dynamic to deliver on the company's mission. You can learn more about us and how we can work together at Gusto, dashnow dot com or alascoretest dot com. Now getting into today's program, I'm very excited to bring you Monica Parker. She's a world renowned speaker, writer, and authority on the future of work. She has spent decades helping people discover how to lead and live wonderfully. She's the founder of global human analytics and change consultancy Hatch Analytics and the Wonder Lab, where she challenges corporate clients to advocate for more meaningful work lives. She's the author of a smashing new book that I love. I read it cover to cover. Of course, it's called The Power of Wonder, The Extraordinary Emotion that will change the way you live, learn and lead, which we'll be talking about today.

2:21 Monica joins us today from Nice, France, where right now it's midnight. It's five o'clock for me. Monica, A hearty welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank you for having me Elise. Such a pleasure. As you know, I loved thoroughly every three hundred and five pages of this massive, beautiful research, well researched book that you brought to us. It's so incredibly informative and delightful and wondrous. Monica, I'm just delighted to bring it to my listenership. Thank you, Thank you so much. You're welcome. So to get us started here, I have to say, you know, whenever I have guests and my guests on I just think about where and consider how they came up with their ideas enough enough to actually birth a book like that in the world has got to come from somewhere. So I want to start with your background. You have what I would consider to be a wonderful, enriching upbringing, and so if you could just sort of bring some of that to life, including I think it was your grandparents' home that you talk about in your book, and then the way you were raised, if you could just share that with our listeners and viewers. Sure. So, born and raised in the South, I'm from Atlanta, Georgia, and I think, as I mentioned in the book, we are not a sporting breed. My family, we're very nerdy, and you know, we watched PBS and my father would quiz me with word games before dinner, and we'd play trivial pursuit and it was just the sort of the way we were raised and high Q games and things like that. Very much into the arts as well, and it

3:52 was just a family that loved learning and it was sort of just something that was always a part of us. And yeah, you mentioned it's actually my my aunt and uncle's home and they had traveled all over the world before finally alighting back in Atlanta, and their house was just like a wonderland. I mean, I don't know any other way to put it, and so many different beautiful objects that typically in most people's homes you would probably be told, oh, don't touch, you know, just for your eyes. But no, we were allowed to touch and play with and ask questions about everything in that home. And it was just such a such a warm place of encouragement to be curious and to learn. And I think I was just surrounded by that and very very privileged that I was also able to go to a great school. And so I just think my entire life was about the joy of exploration and learning for the sake of it. That's so beautiful, listeners and viewers of your parents. I really think this is a fantastic model for parenting if you just want to borrow some of the this that Monika grew up with, I think is fantastic. She turned out okay, I think, well, and then we have to ask please, well I suppose so, I suppose so, But well then we have to talk about then you've had this like smashing set of career experiences along the way, so kind of narrate for you know, some of the stops you made along the way before you're doing what you're doing now. Sure, I think probably some of it goes to add which maybe is my superpower to some degree, but I definitely get bored fairly quickly. So I've yes, I have. Let's see. I was,

5:28 as I said, born and raised in Atlanta. I went on to get my graduate degree in Belfast. I was a graphic designer for a while. I was a professional clown, an opera singer. I ran a chamber of commerce, and I think probably the piece of work before starting Hatch that was most pivotal to me was I was a homicide investigator for the Department of Justice, and I worked with men and women on Florida's Death Row with their defense teams to try to exonerate them or to save them from execution. And that piece of work really fundamentally changed me. It was something I did when I was very young, probably too young in some ways to be as great benefit as I could be to my clients, to these prisoners, but it was something that fundamentally changed my view of the world, and in many ways that was my giant wonder moment because it did completely change the structure of my brain and that sort of sent me on my path that I'm on now.

6:30 And then of course I was fortunate enough to start Hatch Analytics about ten years ago, and Hatches a human analytics and change consultancy, and we specialize in the future of work, and they may not seem to be similar, but there is a red line between all of that work, which is that I have helped people through existential change, big change like you know, being executed by the state, or you know, losing your job, or I worked with parents with children with disabilities. So really everything that I try to do is bring support to people who are going through existential change. I have never heard the phrase existential change, but I have to say, having heard you just utter that, I can't imagine too many larger existential changes than being executed by the state. I just thin it's a pretty big one. Yeah, it's definitely a big one. And yet somehow there were certain people that were just able to be buoyant. They were still able to find a sense of purpose and meaning in their life. And that was really, while I didn't have the language for it, that was where I started to recognize the power of wonder, which is that people who held their world and a great deal of wonder were better able to deal with what life throw it them. Including being you know, on death row or being in prison for life with being the you know, the positive outcome, and it sort of set me thinking about, well, why are some people better able to manage what the world brings to them? And I kept coming back to this idea of wonder,

8:03 which I want to dive into. And before we do that, I want to celebrate. As I told you before we got on air, I have a near twenty one year old daughter and I don't remember when it was I started calling her this nickname. She has several, but I've been calling her Wonder for years. I call her and I say high Wonder. She's like, hi, Mama, and all of her friends know, oh, Wonder's mom is calling, you know, And it's just and it's because I see her as such a wonder. I don't know how this miracle happened to me, and I'm so grateful for her and she just brings me so much joy. So sharing that with our listeners, yes, so it really resonates with me and your your book, you know, I have to say I had never imagined there was so much to learn about Wonder, and you do such a beautiful job really situating with the five elements you put forth, And what I'd like to do next for our listeners and viewers is talk through these five elements that you came up with, and you know, really bring them home to so that they're they're accessible to them in the same way at least I got, well you're reading. Of course you're going to have to read the book to get them as on the level that I got them. And then as we talk, I'd love to hear you say a little bit about how we can cultivate each one of these elements so we give something to our listeners and viewers so they can apply this stuff. So your model here, and this is what I find so so fascinating. Here you know, this idea of you know, wonder. But first, before we even get into it, I guess the five we should probably talk about what do you mean by wonder? What's your definition of wonder? Well, it's interesting because wonder of a word as a word, is something of a shape shifter, right, So we have wonder that is the verb which is to wonder that might be

9:35 the same that we see as synonymous with being curious, with curiosity. But then we also have a wonder which is the nickname for your daughter, which is something that is, you know, wonder made manifest, which might also be the outcome of awe. And so just even looking from an etymological point of view, I wanted to try to link them psychologically, spiritually, at homologedly so that we could and find how those two ideas linked. And actually, as I started to study it, they do link. And so the way that I see wonder is as a cycle, and it is these five components actually four components, but five ways to express them that as we experience each one of them, we're more likely to experience them in the future.

10:18 And it becomes this upwardly additive cycle. And I see it as as an opportunity for us to tap into those places of ourselves that want to explore, that want to connect, that want to be open. And what I resonate with ther Monica on that is, you know, somebody who's trying to help elevate consciousness in organizations, and some of the same work you're doing to really try to cultivate, you know, the finer qualities of what it is to be human inside the workplace. I'm working on that too. I love this idea of upward additive cycle. That's so exciting. So then we have to talk a little bit just before we get into the actual cycle itself, the benefits. What are the benefits of Wonder? I mean, it's really incredible.

11:03 As I sort of started to go down this rabbit hole, I couldn't believe them. As we started to look at these aggregate components of wonder, people who are more wonder prone are more creative, they are more desirous of studying the world. They're more humble, they're less materialistic, they're more generous, they're better community members. People who are higher and these composite elements perform better in school and in work. They have healthier relationships, they're less stressed and feel like they have more time. It's what's considered a pro social emotion, which means it makes us want to move forward and do things for other people. Really simply, it makes us just want to be better, more tolerant people. And if that's not enough, the physiological elements are really really surprising to me. You know, Wonder lowers blood pressure, It lowers are stress hormones cortisol. It also decreases what are known as pro inflammatory cytokine, and so these are the markers of certain conditions like Alzheimer's or heart disease, certain cancers. And what these links show is that there's a direct biological pathway between wonder and better health. Okay, I'm convinced. I'm in no.

12:18 I wonder for everyone, right, Yeah, exactly. It's like it's a great way to start the new year. So I love it, and I just really wanted to make sure that we brought that for our listeners and viewers because I couldn't believe the list either in your book. I just couldn't believe it. Okay, so let's dive in. Let's talk about the first element, watching, which you also refer to as openness. Talk to us about watching. Sure, So the first step is openness to experience or what I call watching, and the watcher is someone who is really open and present. Now, openness to experience is one of our personality traits. It's one of our five personality traits if we consider the Big Five, which is really, you know, the gold standard of sort of personality testing. And while well, it sits on a spectrum, everyone has some degree of openness to experience.

13:05 The challenge, of course, is that it tends to be set by the time or about twenty five. You can change your personality, but not a lot. And so by the time we're about twenty five, based half on our genetics and half on our experiences, we have a certain degree of openness to experience. But really the type of openness to experience it gets us closer to wonder more specifically, is openness to new ideas. And I love that because then that gets to the heart of the nerdiness that I love, which is being open to new ideas. And even better than that is being able to hold two competing ideas in your mind at the same time. This idea, of these competing notions really help us stretch ourselves and prepare ourselves for the next element, which is curiosity. Now, how can we bring more openness to our life? Really, there's a lot of there's some pieces that help with all of them, and I'll touch on them at the end again, But in general, what gets as closer to wonder things like slow thought, which is meditation, narrative, journaling, novelty. So experiencing newness.

14:13 We always notice newness. Being in nature certainly is helpful, but for some people it might be in other areas. So it's knowing what your wonder bringers are, what it is that gives you that sense of wonder, and then gratitude is also a great wonder practice. So all of those actually can help enhance your sense of openness to experience. So once we experience this openness, once we identify that, then it really very naturally leads us into curiosity because people who are higher and openness to experience are more naturally curious. Now, what's interesting about curiosity is, you know, there are two There generally are a lot of different sort of models of curiosity. If you look at the research literature, you know some have his many as five different factors. But in general, you can sort of break curiosity down into two buckets. There's surface curiosity and deep curiosity. So surface curiosity would be you know, smelling the milk to know if it's gone off, or a Google search to settle a bet. You know, that would be surface curiosity. The deep curiosity is the exploration for exploration's sake. And again, you know, going back to my childhood, my father used to assign when we would travel, he would assign each of us to be the tour guides and he's very quirky.

15:31 That made us Nerva and Nerval the navigator and the navigate tricks, and we would have to study the place that we were going, and we would be the guide to our family. And that sort of curiosity where you're really just for the exploration. It's what sometimes it's called epistemic curiosity, but it is it's just for the joy and the pleasure of learning. And that's the kind of curiosity that really gets us closer to wonder. The surface curiosity sometimes can, especially when we think of technology the way that it can sort of grab us. Sometimes it becomes just sort of a series of dopamine hits and not necessarily drawing us closer to what we're hoping is the next step, which is then absorption. So we go from home, hold on home. Sorry, I want to hold on because I want to take a quick break. We're giving so much to our listeners and viewers and I'll let let them think for just a second. Well, we grab our first break. We were talking about first what wonder? What was the first one? Openness? Yeah, watch, watch, and then wander and then hold your hold your thoughts listeners and viewers, to hold your horses because we've got so much more. All right, We've been on the air with Monica Parker. She's the founder of the global human Analytics and change consultancy HASCH Analytics in the Wonder Lab, where she challenges corporate clients to advocate for a more meaningful work lives. I'm your host, doctor, Release cortest. We'll be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes

17:07 is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise A. L Se at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on purpose. Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to work on Purpose. I'm your host doctor at least Cortes as I too, am dedicated to help and create a world where people realize their potential at work and they're led by inspirational leaders to help them find and contribute their greatness, and we do business and betters the world. I keep writing my own books and I keep researching, and so my guests become my research people as well.

18:15 So my latest book that came out in March of twenty three is called The Great Revitalization, How activating meaning and Purpose can radically enliven your business. And I wrote it to help you readers, the leaders understand the new lay of the land. This is the work place has radically changed. I tell you what that is, and then I give you twenty two best practices to help provide the workplace that actually meets those needs of the talent today. You can learn more about it at at Leastcoortes dot com if you are just joining me today. My guest is Monica Parker. She's the author of the Power of Wonder, The extraordinary Motion that will change the way you live, learn and lead. It's spectacular. So we got to in this cycle there we talked about watch and Wander, and before we moved on to the next thing.

18:56 I really wanted to talk a little bit about one of the there were so many great things you introduced me to, and I did, by the way, because of your your a suggestion about the big five being you know, really the more the more a validated one. And I took one of the assessments out there and I came in at ninety percent openness. So maybe that's why I love this this wonder stuff. But there you go. You are definitely wonder prone, any know, exactly? And I've actually developed a little wonder prone survey if people want to go on to my website, they can even find out how wonder prone they are, and it includes some of the markers of openness to experience and curiosity, absorption and awe. But absolutely ninety percent you are. You're super wonder parnallys I know. And I'll tell you as we go what somehow that shows up? Tell us now, why to go ahead and grab the website where and they say that assessment that's it, Monica dash Parker dot com. Okay, all right, all right, cool, all right. So then one of the one myriad of wonderful things that I learned from your book. Is you introduced us to David Pearl, who created street Wisdom. Since we're talking about wander and curiosity, now, would you tell the listeners of yours a little bit about this man in street Wisdom.

20:04 Sure, I've known David for probably about ten years and he started street Wisdom in London. And street Wisdom is basically sort of a crowd funded and shared experience where people will get together and they will set intentions for what they're going to experience on their walk. They will say that they will ask the street a question and then they'll go on a walk, and what will happen during the course of the walk is that answers will come to them, almost in a sort of a serendipitous point of view. If you sort of lean more towards the woo, you may say that that is, you know, the universe answering the question. But it doesn't even have to be that.

20:49 I mean, it can simply be that you are opening yourself up and presenting a question in a way that now your mind is allowing to connect dots in a different way. But it can be everything from seeing your name and lights to running into a friend who answers the question for you. But really what it is is an opportunity to be present. It's you, it's very it's totally you know, no phones, you're alone. And in a way, it's really what I recommend, which is known as a wonder walk. So it is simply going out and saying I will find this thing. Therefore your brain commits the cognitive resources towards doing it, and when you come back, you discuss what you found. And he now has groups of street wisdomers all over the world, and it's just I think a really fascinating way for people to connect with one another, to connect in urban environments. I'm a city mouse, so I love that idea, and and to help create a time of presence where you can look internally while being really observant of your environment.

22:04 So De Lifeful, I would have never known about him had you not brought him in your book. Okay, so now are you ready to talk about whittle and absorption? Have you covered the other two enough? Okay? Yeah, absolutely, So when we go from curiosity, we've obviously you know, this is deep curiosity. We're sort of like a ganet, collecting shiny little bits of information that we find interesting, and then we fall down a rabbit hole, and when we fall down that rabbit hole of interest, it's where we become really present and absorbed. And this absorption could be the purity of focus that you get from a flow state. It could just simply be very being very, very present in the moment. But this is a critical point because it's really the connecting point between wonder as a verb and wonder as a noun. And this is where we're moving from the two wonder where we now have to become hyper present in our environment so we don't miss anything, and then that allows us to move into And what I find fascinating about absorption is it's really sort of a strange emotional state. It was first sort of developed even as an analysis when a gentleman intelligen Acheteligen was looking at how susceptible people were to hypnosis, and it was even through that then he created this absorption tool that you can see how prone you are to absorption. But some people look at absorption as hyper focused curiosity. So you could say that potentially, like a flow states, you're super curious about what it is you're doing and

23:37 you lose everything else. Or it could be a very light transcendent state, which also then starts to feed into flow because you sort of lose yourself, you lose your sense of time, your sense of physicality, and so it's really this very amorphous, strange state. But what it does is it becomes everything in your space becomes crystalline, and it allows you then to observe things that maybe otherwise, if you weren't present, you would just sort of speed through, because we speed through so much of our day at least, I mean, that's one of the challenges, isn't it. And oh sorry, go on, no, no, go ahead. And so from there, once we become hyper present, we're able to see and at that point then we have the opportunity for AWE. Now, there are some books out there written by about AWE. I've interviewed some of the scientists behind it. And one of the reasons why I really made a point to show that AWE I believe is a subset of wonder is because sometimes AWE feels like it is too rare, too fleeting, like it's almost dumb. Luck if we experience it now, I don't believe that. I believe that we can train ourselves to see AWE and wonder in the quotidian. But even if we don't have an AWE moment, simply going through the cycle of being open, being curious, being present, if we do that over and over again, we will eventually create a mind set that is more prone to experiencing those wow moments. And so when we get into AWE, I describe AWE as both wow and woe.

25:07 And the reason I describe it this way is because awe actually has two states. We have the first state, which is known as vastness, which is where we experience something that is so great, and it could be emotionally great, like seeing your child seeing wonder take her first steps, or it could be physically great like seeing the Grand Canyon, or intellectually great like trying to think of a folded universe. But something that really blows your mind and it makes you feel like a smaller component part of a bigger system. And when you feel small, your problems feel small. So this is where we start to get some of the benefit of wonder. So when we have that moment of vastness, then what we move into is the second component, and that's called accommodation. So we've had this wow, this thing that makes us literally, it changes that we make a we frequently gasp, our eyes go open. But then our brain actually changes its structure. So now we're creating a highly plastic brain after this experience and what we experience and can be embedded more deeply. And so this is where we have the opportunity to really change our mind, to change the way that we see the world. And those two components, the wow and the woe, has some of the greatest power of the wonder cycle. Oh so many great things. So I want to talk a little bit about how it shows. So I loved what you talked about with regard to how people experience those latter two the vastness, the accommodation,

26:40 And I'll share it for me, and I know you can you can well imagine this now by now. But this has happened to me many times that I have a piano on my home that I occasionally play, but it's more interesting when somebody that knows how to play the piano comes over and plays it. And I've had the experience Monica where one of my daughter's friends has come over. I'll just call them out, Will Gorman. And the first time that this happened he said, oh, yes, I played the piano. I'll play something for you. And it was like a New Year's Eve or something. And he went out to the front room and he played a piece and I was sitting behind him, and he just sat down. He just started playing, and I had the immediate visceral response where my eyes completely filled with tears and just you know, we're talking a waterfall down my face.

27:21 And he finished the song and you turn around and sees me goes, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'm like for what for moving me to tears? But that visceral, immediate response. And then you talk about goosebumps. I'm somebody who gets goosebumps when I have these sensations. And the way you describe the evolution of goosebumps, where they came from, how they've served us, you know, as you know, to help us and recognize there was maybe a harm coming. I mean, Monica, it's brilliant. So maybe you could say you're describing that to me. This is where I say, all the time wonder shared is wonder multiplied. To me, I got goosebumps, So I'm sure probably some off your listeners did too. And this is why it's so important that when we have a wonder experience, we share it with other people. I was teaching a university class about wonder and one person was saying, my biggest wonder experience was the first time I went down a ski mountain, and then two other people went I remember the first time I went down a ski mountain, and you could see everyone had the wonderface. And it's so powerful when we share our wonder experiences because it really does multiply it and it allows us to feel that and it achieved the benefit even just you expressing that, it sort of started to light up some of the same neural pathways that in that moment you also had. So that's the power of sharing these stories of wonder as well. Yes, now would you call that this is a phrase that I learned a while ago from one of my one of my other guest limbic resonance. Yes, it certainly would be an example of it. Yes, And I love the I think I put

28:53 in the book the description of these these tears of wonder joy. You know that I love that idea and that it we can what we connect to and that's where we really I think it's really important that we understand our wonder bringers and are able to communicate them, because when we consider relationships, you know, for you, it might be music. For someone else it might be nature. And if we're just saying, oh, well, I like music or I like going on hikes, it feels like it's something, you know, a hobby. But if you express it in the context of it is my wonderbringer that is primary to who you are, you know, heart, body, and soul. And if we can have that language, I think we can start to understand one another in a more fundamental way. I explain this to someone at a conference that I want to and he said, well, you know, I always thought that, you know, don't take offense, but that my wife was maybe not quite as clever as I was, because I really was, you know, like intellectual things, and she likes going on hikes. And now I realize that, no, it's just our wonderbringers are different. I see that suddenly, you just say, already he was like going to communicate more effect with his wife, And I thought, it's almost like a type of love language. And I love that that idea that we can once we tap into what our wonder bringers are we really appreciate what resonates in us really in such a meaningful way. So good, Monica.

30:18 I don't want to let you go, but let's do this. Let's go ahead and grab our last break here because it's a nice good break for what I want to talk about next. I'm your host, Doctor Alice Cortez. I've been on the air with Monica Parker. She's the founder of the global human analytics and change consultancy HASH Analytics and the Wonder Lab, where she challenges corporate clients to advocate for more meaningful work lives. We've been talking about the wonder cycle. Now after the break, we're going to talk about how we can bring wonder into the workplace. See what this will be right back.

31:00 Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise alisee at Elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose. Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. Before we get back into the program, I want to share something with you that I'm I've taken up and will be part of. It's called the Humanitarian Exchange, and what this is is this is an exciting in person and online event. It's February twentieth of twenty twenty four, and this is really an opportunity to join a digital and in person community. And they're coalescing around bringing various perspectives and talents around the escalating global crises driven by climate and conflict. So they're bringing together people that are purpose driven organizations, individuals. So check it out if you

32:30 go to Humanitarian Exchange dot org no e Humanitarian Exchange dot org and if you want to join, this is a free conference, so free is always nice. If you put in the code hxdah priority that will give you another level of participation because you heard it on the show, so check it out if you are just joining us today. My guest is Monica Parker. She's the author of the Power of Wonder, of extraordinary emotion that will change the way you live, learn, and lead. So before we get into talking about how we can apply this in the workplace and create workplaces, I wonder I want to talk about a couple of other concepts that I thought were really fascinating might also lead us into that. And the first one is this idea here, Monica, that you have in your book. You talk about comprehension and release, about it being a moment, and then you talk about that as being a single catalyst that moves us into some aspects that I think are pretty interesting. Can you address this? It's so fascinating. Sure, It's really the connecting point between absorption and awe, and I love to describe it.

33:37 I'm a big fan of architecture. Some of the work that I do is about built the built environment, and I love the story that I've gotten the book around Frank Lloyd Wright and Frank Loyd Right. Obviously, you know one of the most famous architects in the world. And if you've ever gone into some of his spaces, they're a bit odd because sometimes you'll go through these always that are very pent and tiny, and you could almost touch the sides of the walls with your hands, and you think, well, this is sort of odd for such an accomplished architect. But those halways spit you out into these grand crescendos of rooms with you know, cantilevered space is flooded with light. And what he was doing is he knew it was the differential between the dark pen space to the large light space. So really what this compression and he called it compression and release. And what this compression and release is is it's telling our brain pay attention, because really all our brain notices is newness. And so this moment of compression is allowing us then to be prepared for the big moment of whatever it is that we're going to experience. And so certainly, you know, presence practices like like meditation sort of primes us for that we see this. You know, places that are another built environment that are experts at this are museums. Museums are really well trained and creating these tiny spaces that then open up, and that sense of being compressed and

35:09 then releasing that differential is so powerful and in that just even that moment of going from darkness to light, from yin to yang can be a wonder bringer in and of itself. Mm hmm. Yes, And I love how you described that. And then what I really found fascinating, this is the geek in me that was paying attention to this. You know, I literally am not kidding you, Monica. I have thirty two pages of typewritten research notes from your book. Wow. Part of the reason. That's how I read your book, my friend, I read your book. That's that's how I part of the way I do my research with books that I write in the talks that I give. So one of the things that I that I captured was this notion of expectation violation and I do love that, and that is the that is the catalyst from the all researchers they say that is the catalyst of what creates an awe moment is that we go through our life, we have patterns that we expect to complete. I mean, basically, that's how our entire brain works is to be very efficient. It connects A to B as quickly as possible. If you've read Daniel Kammons Thinking Fast and Slow, he talks about it that you know, most of our brain is just very fast, and so it's constantly just completing patterns. But when we have a moment where a pattern we expect to complete doesn't, that's where we go oh, and that's where the wow moment occurs. That's where we are forced to take notice. Now, of course, if we're rushed, if we're busy,

36:39 then it takes a much bigger expectation violation for us to notice. And I you know, give some examples in the book about that. But the challenge is is we're always so busy a lease, and when we are rushed, when we're stressed, when we're not well, either mentally well or physically well, our brain wants to conserve energy. And that means it's really going to take those quickest neural pathways from A to B and not look for anything that's out of the ordinary, because it will force itself to stop and then put more cognitive resources towards that thing that it's seeing. And so that's why the presence part of this, the absorption, is so important, because it's the slowing down and really being observant of your world so that you can notice the patterns that aren't that do not complete. You can notice the expectation violation, because if we're just too rushed, we'll just zip right past an opportunity for wonder. That's so great, that was worth the price of admission right there. Okay, So then the other thing that I want to distinguish for our listeners and viewers that I really it really mattered to me. You would distinguish the wow and the woe here, and I think this is really really important to bring home. You've covered a little bit before, but I want to bring it back again. I like how you write in your book.

37:55 You talk about let's see here, talk about how people feel that they experience the presence of something so vast physically or cognitively that it changes the way we see the world, which is the wow, like wow, that's so cool, and thus our experience, our perspective is forever change. And that's whoa, whoa, My mind has been blown. Yeah, And I really think that's important because I know listeners of viewers, every one of you has had both a wow experience and a woe experience. I love your point, Monica that the more we talk about this stuff, the more we share this stuff, the more we elevate the communities that we're connected to. Yeah, and I actually have a theory at least that I bounced off a couple of people, Scott Barry Kaufman being one of them, that I believe and also Landi Sciota, who's another amazing researcher, that I believe that PTSD might actually be sort of awe interrupt us. So it's people who have had the wow moment, had something that is huge, you know, obviously traumatic, but they're not able to metabolize that. They're not able to get to the woe.

39:01 They're not able to create new neural pathways that can handle that information, and so what ends up happening is they're stuck in that wow moment. And what we know is that people who are more prone, who are hire and openness to experience, who are more prone towards deep curiosity, they're actually more likely to experience post traumatic growth as opposed to post traumatic stress. And so we know that people who are more wonder prone are actually better able to handle trauma. And so really that those two pieces that wow and woe is a really critical part to how we're able to achieve some of the resilience that we get from the experience of wonder. And that's one of the reasons why I'm so keen for people to appreciate this emotional experience, because I feel like in America, certainly, we are obsessed with happiness. We are filled with happy chondriacs, and it's hard to look in the world and be happy. We have wars, we just got out of a pandemic, and I think that there's it's very natural not to want to be happy, and then we feel guilty because we're not happy. But wonder we can feel wonder even in the darkest of times because it is a mixed emotion. Happiness is positively valanced. It means we're always positive, but wonder can be duly valance. It's both positive and negative at the same time, and as the positive and negative sort of duel it out. You really see that in Awe Awe as another duly valanced

40:34 emotion, as is curiosity, and that battle between the two emotions of oh, my goodness, I'm frightened by this, but it's amazing, and I don't know my brain can't quite make sense of it. And in that moment as your brain is tussling with it, if you are more wonder prone, it uses that sort of conflict to grow as opposed to be stunted. So yummy. So this is really important because I'm a learning and development professional. I care about ongoing learning and I want to make sure that our listeners and viewers understand that they can cultivate their capacity for wonder. One of the things that you do beautifully in your book, Monica, there's only one thing that you do beautifully, just kidding, one thing that you do in there.

41:19 If that's beautiful, as you talk about, if you're not somebody that's on the openness scale, you're not you can actually cultivate that. So one of the things that I want to make sure that we impart to our listeners and viewers is that we cultivate a wonder practice. This is something that we want to incorporate in our everyday lives to be able to improve our overall health and our connectivity, our relationships and our vitality everything. And I want to make sure that our listeners hear that absolutely. And I think if there were three ways that you could go away and start building a wonder practice today. The first would be what I call slow thought, and that is anything that slows down your noggin, so meditation, narrative journal, a gratitude practice, prayer, anything that really gets you out of the chattering monkey mind, something that helps you develop attentional control. Number two is novelty. Your brain notices newness, so anything that you can do to experience new ideas, new thinking, new places that helps your brain be more plastic and prone towards experiencing wonder And then I think probably the last element would be very simple, a wonderwalk.

42:30 You know what makes a wonderwalk a wonderwalk? You decide it is. And this is really a great study in just priming. You tell yourself, I am going to find something to feel wonder about on this walk, and then you do. That's what the research shows and going out, if you ways to take a good wonder walk is to look for things that make you feel small, so big oceans, mountain vistas. But if you can't go big, then you look for things that are small, so things that details that maybe you wouldn't have noticed other wise, and taking a new route. So I think that those three things are really powerful ways to just start developing a wonder practice. Awesome, thank you Monica. Okay, now for the last a bit here of this program, I want to focus on creating wonder based cultures, and I want to read just a little bit from your book here that I just think is so so compelling. You're writing your book, you say, I appreciate that. Going to your boss and saying hey, I want to I want more wonder at work might not get you, might get you a side eyed, you know sort of look, but the truth is work isn't working for many people. So what have you got to lose?

43:34 So let's talk a little bit about how we can create a wonder based culture. Yeah. It's funny because when I truly when I started to think about writing a book, I was going to write a book on change management, which would have been really, really boring. But the reality is that I've been working in workplace change for a decade. That's what my company, Hatch does, and what I wanted people to learn. We were ways to create a less toxic environment. Let's be honest, a lot of work environments are terribly toxic. So the way that we can bring wonder at work. Really it's the derivatives of wonder that create a better work environment. So things like empathy, humility, ethics, presence, those are all elements we want and business leaders and in team members, we know that people who are more wonder prone have greater creativity and have these small self qualities, right, so these elements where we want to be helpful to others. There's research that shows that people who are more wonder prone CEOs and leaders, they lead stronger management teams who are in turn more effective at communication. And there's a really fascinating piece of research that shows that leaders who have used psychedelics have it has a positive impact on their behaviors, their creativity, their patients, their empathy. And this is actually something that I'm exploring with the Wonder Lab. All legal, of course, but looking at the ways that psychedelics can positively impact leadership because

45:07 it's being shown to be really powerful in helping people addiction and depression. But the reality is is we all have to work, and less we're independently wealthy, most of us have to work, and we spend more working time with our colleagues than we do with anybody else. And so if we can make work better and use wonder as a mechanism to do that, then I think that that is a net gain, and it will also make people less polarized and just better, more tolerant humans. And so I just don't see how that's not something that we would all want more of in the workplace, no question, sister, I'm right there with you. We're rown in the same boat. Yes, a lot more cultures that are based in awe and wonder and you humility and appreciation. And so one quick thing listeners and viewers that you can simply do as a leader is go on that you know, with that watching piece there, watch for your people. What are they doing?

46:00 It's magic and magnificent. Watch for it, and then tell them and and celebrate that. That's just one of the many things you can do as a leader to be able to start to live and create this wonder sort of culture. It's right there in front of anyone else. Elise as well, there was a statistic that shocked me. Seventy two percent of American workers are afraid to ask questions at work. What how are we supposed to innovate when they're afraid to ask questions That curiosity element. If you're a leader, give your people the space and the time to just explore, to think, because if you are if people are afraid to ask questions, how in the world are they supposed to come up with new ideas? And so that to me was a real mind opener and and I think that that's a great piece of advice as well for leaders. M Yeah, culled me in a curiosity, you know, and giving people that place. And so I was thinking about this.

46:52 You know, I speak Spanish and Portuguese pretty well. In Spanish, the way that you say wonder is met with that which really translates to I ask myself yes, and it's it's And what I think is interesting though about your concept is it's so much more than that, because you're not just asking yourself, You're actually opening that question up to everything. And that's what I find so compelling is you know, you can ask yourself and that's one source, but there's so much more available to be able to answer and delight you and and to stoke your curiosity. So, as you can tell, I'm slightly a fan of your work, I will be spreading the word thank you so much. Yes, I will be writing a review, so we get it. We're coming to the close of the program here, Monic, and you now know that the program is to pay by people around the world who really care about either experiencing or helping to create a workplace where people can grow into their best realize their potential, that they're led by inspirational leaders that lead them to their greatness, and that in so doing they do business at better in the world. What would you like to look with I think I'd like to leave them with just the my, my stead fast belief that if we meet each other with openness, with genuine curiosity, because what is the essence of empathy but curiosity about the human condition of other people. If we meet each other with curiosity, with presence, that we will create uh will be more tolerant, helpful people, and will create a more tolerant, helpful world.

48:27 And that is the world that I would like to live in and help usher in. Thank you, Monica. It is a delight to know you, to read your book, to be inspired by you, to learn from you, and to share you with my listeners. Thank you for being on working on purpose. Thank you so much, Elise. It was fabulous, terrific, listeners and viewers. If you want to learn more about Monica Parker, the work she does at Hatch, or the Wonder Lab, or her book, The Power of Wonder, start by visiting her website. It's Monica Dashparker dot com. So Monica m O N I c A Dash Parker p A r K E RNA Dash Parker dot com. Last week, if you missed the live show, you can always catch it via recorded podcast. We were on the air with Michael Graeber of Epic Pivot, where we talked about responsible innovation and the power of incorporating curious, empathetic human design principles into innovations.

49:13 Listening to that empo so will change the way you want to innovate at your company, being wholly inspired by the power of purpose to guide those efforts. Next week, we'll be on the air with margat Hawk, the author of Tech for Good Imagine Solving the world's greatest challenges. See you there, and remember work is one of the best adventures and means of realizing our potential and making the impact we crave. So let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave.

49:54 See you there, Let's work on Purpose.