The Promise of Warrior Compassion: The New Frontier for Healing, Love, and Connection for Men

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements radio show, programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential.

0:45 Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, Doctor Elise Cortes. Welcome back to the Working on Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning again this week. Great to have you. This program has been on air since February of twenty fifteen. It is my pride and joy. I'm happy to have you with me for for this episode. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, joining you live from Dallas, Texas, which is home base for me. If we have not met yet, you don't know me. I'm a management consultant, organizational logo therapist, speaker and author. My team and I at Elise Cortes and Associates help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by articulating their purpose in building inspirational leaders and cultures activated by meeting in purpose to turn those companies from a flatlane EKG to a vibrant destination workplace. There people are intrinsically motivated to perform at their best, grown to their fuller potential, and are committed to stay in dynamic deliver on the company's mission. You can learn more about us and how we can work together at Eliscortes dot com.

1:49 Now getting into today's program, we have with us Sean Harvey, the Chief Compassion Officer and founder of Warrior Compassion Men's Studio. His work in personal organization on societal transformation is inspired by twenty five years of organization developing, consulting, development consulting, and his work as an interfaith minister, where he co founded Project Compassion, a national initiative to deepen compassion in police departments. He's known for his healing work with men in hyper masculine systems. Today we're talking about his new book, Warrior Compassion, Unleashing the Healing Power of Men. He joined you today from Philadelphia. Sean, Welcome back to Working on Purpose. Thanks for having me back. It's great to be here. You know I'm a huge fan, right I told you before. You know you can run for me, but you can't hide from me. Right. I've picked that up a couple of times, So I think we're good on that phone.

2:39 You get good. Okay, Well let me tell you us for our viewers, let me hold up the beautiful book that you created. I say this often, Sean, when I'm talking to Most of my show is authors. It is harder. But this might be good news for you. What you did in creating this book is actually harder than bringing a child into the world. I know I've done both, just so you know already. Then okay, check that off. Check that off. So for our listeners, and viewers who don't know you the way that I do. Chan Lett, how about just a brief sort of sketch of who you are, just quickly, of course, you know, I love the fact that you're an interfaith minister, which you talked about fore on air. You gotta say a little something about your two word alight, Eileen Fisher. You know you started on Wall Street and consulting. Just just give us, like a high, high sketch of this man who's in front of us. Please. You know, when I get asked this question often like just to start with, I'm a bunny dad, So I love that about your book. I didn't know this.

3:39 I'm a rabbit educator and I've have I think I've heard about ten rabbits, five Fosters, and five that I've owned myself. And so that just gives a juxtaposition of the work I do. It does and so as you, I often say, I'm brought into the most hyper masculine cultures and systems and organizations possible, be it police, military, defense, work I've done with white nationalists and far right extremists, with the government, with finance tech, and really coming into to deepen compassion and work with men around soul healing.

4:24 What led me here was my It was really at my fortieth birthday. My birthday present to me was I was a consultant on Wall Street and on my fortieth birthday I walked in the CEO's office and said, you know, I've I've lost my heart and my soul on the job, and I resigned as my birthday president. It just happened. The two came together the same day, and then within two weeks so the opportunity to work at Island Fisher came along. And you know, there there were many, many highlights and many pivotal moments. But I think the probably the most pivotal moment that changed the directory of my life was my first day after I had gone through an eight month interview process. On that first day, my two bosses sat me down and they said these words, Sean, we want to acknowledge and honor the fact that you have proven yourself in the interview process. We now want you to stop proving yourself and learn how to be who you actually are.

5:28 When you interview with us, you showed us your heart, and you showed us your polish. We hired you for your heart, and we want to see less of your polish And you just said, what a gift. And the gift that I always name it as is permission permission to go on a journey to discover who I was. And I think the essence of my book is helping men based on the lessons I've learned and experiences I've gone through, taking out the kernels of of what did I experience on the journey and what really helped me in my healing process and the permission to be able to do it and the permission to explore it and take the risks. Okay, so two things to dive into that really quick. First, listeners and viewers, I want to call that if you do not know the company, Eileen Fisher, you need to check them out. I'm not quite sure how you would call them, but I would call them a socially conscious fashion company. And what I like about that, listeners and viewers, is I want you just to check out just what you can do. The force of good that business can really be. I mean, they are putting forth to improve the lives of their people that come to work for them, all of their stakeholders.

6:40 It is so beautiful. So I want to just say that, and then the second thing is we must hear it. Just a bit more about the bunnies. I think it's quite interesting that you are able to so peacefully connect with, as you put it in your book, Pray animals, bunnies are prey animals. See a little bit more about the significance of the bunny in your life. Why are you a bunny, Dad? Well, I think I'm an accidental bunny dad. I think it was more circumstance. And when we got our first rabbit, actually we got two rabbits, and my ex boyfriend and I we we'd look up this Shakespearean character book and we named our two rabbits Hamlet and Ophelia. And Ophelia they were both sick. Hamlet died within seven days. A Feeler survived. She actually lived to be twelve years old. And she was sort of this mix between a dog and a cat.

7:33 But I think one of the things that I, you know, a prey animal. And I have so many friends who are ech wine coaches or or work with horses. Yes, there's something about the energy that they sense that what I found was the quieter that I became, the calmer, that I became the more playful, the bunny would become I love that. So they were always reacting to my energy. So if I was hyper, they would shut down. If I was calm, they would they would light up. M h. And so you know, I get the sense that that many animals just consents, and so I think that that inner species connection is so powerful and often and indicative of a reflection or mire for us. Ultimately, I think everything that we're going to talk about this work is about what are the mirrors to show us around humanity? Yes, so beautiful, Thank you, Sean. That was totally worth the price of admission to go further down that path. Okay, So what I want to do next to showcase the incredible work that you're doing with men, I just want to read a short little passage from the from an early part of your book and have you speak to that, because it really speaks to the importance of your work and the promise of it. So you say in your book today, men suffering in silence is a stark reality perpetuating many men's de wounds and emotional struggles, hindering their well being and preventing them from receiving the support they need. It

9:05 is time to break the cycle of silent suffering and create a culture that encourages open dialogue, empathy, and compassion for men's health and emotional health. By addressing the plight of men suffering in silence, we can pave the way for healing, growth and a more compassionate society that supports the wellbeing of all individuals, regardless of gender. I'm in for that, John, I'm in for that m You know, it's so much of the as you know, I'm sure you definitely know this, so much of the writing process. You're really channeling, yes. And so some days I get quoted back what I wrote, and I'm like, oh, who wrote that? It sounds pretty good?

9:48 That sounds pretty good, And that happens. That happens so many so often these days. But the whole book was really dedicated when I thought about who is my muse, Who is who is the man I'm trying to reach? You know, it's the man who's suffering in silence? Yeah, And we don't, you know, when we were coming up with the name of the book, you know, at first, the ted talk that I that I did in twenty twenty one, it's called Compassion makes the warrior. I thought that was going to be the title of the book. The folks at Georgetown, Yeah, they weren't. So they weren't so keen on that where I was writing my book, and I said, what we could call it compassionate warrior And they suggested, or what about warrior compassion? You know, and and the person who suggests, he'said, I'm your target audience. I would pick that up more than compassionate lawyer. Started to really sit with that, and I started to make the distinction that not every man is going to want to be a compassionate warwrier. It's an identity we're asking, and I think in society today, we're asking so many men to take on so many different roles and identities. And what became more accessible was what if we thought of or compassion is energy that is within that is accessible to every man if he is courageous enough to look beyond the protective layers he's created and through the

11:18 conditioning that's helped him back from his authentic self m H. And the compassion that's required to look at all aspects of oneself, the good, the bad, the ugly, the anger, the fear, and most importantly the shame that holds men back from actually being able to access their truth. So wary or compassion in an essence when when you as you read through the book, there's so many statistics, and I think anyone who's writing a men's book today will will give any number of statistics to show the plight of men where men are today. And I think, you know, as opposed to trying to fix it, it's which I think is often the adage, and I think it's a very masculin approach. So let's fix the problem, and a more feminine approach is more we could heal the wounds. Yes, and and and I always say this isn't about fixing a problem. This is and also it's not fixing progress. I think what so many men here today is you have to change because you're broken or something's broken or something. Yes, that's right.

12:26 I think it's that big fat label, right. And if we know anything about men, the moment you tell a man to do something, he's gonna be like, well, you know, just you know, the automatic resistance will come out right for many men. But if we take a different approach and say, you know what, many men are suffering? Many men when when you actually present in front of them the ways men are suffering, and here the ways men are suffering. They can often see themselves in it. And when you extend it in the ta not a demand or a mandate, men will often be able to start to say, you know what, I might be wounded too. Yeah, and that's that's the And I think another another part of this is a number of men will often think they can go to loone or they'll just work through it, or they'll just get get through it. But they what they often feelt. It realizes if you if you just, if you just let it go, it's going to stick around and stick. Yeah, it can be worse than you ever imagined, the ways that it shows up, in the way that it comes out. So to be able to help men just acknowledge the suffering, to be with them in the suffering, and to say, and here are some ways that might be able to help you to come out of the suffering. Mm hmm okay, So two of the things on that So part of why I'm such a fan of your work, you know, I of course, as you know,

13:58 I am out to really help continue to evangelize consciousness in cultures and leadership organizations so that more people can experience what you got to experience at Eileen Fisher. You know that they are transformed in the work that they do and by a conscious supportive culture and leadership, which just beautiful. And so it occurs to me that if you can really help more men be able to confront their wounds and heal and they themselves then can feel much more. Where they're more healthy, they're more balanced, more centered, their immediate relationships start to immediately improve. As you talk about in your book, their connection to their families starts to improve. The dog gets kicked less, you know, the rabbit gets petted more right, and then that cascades into the organizations they work for, how they lead, how they manage, et cetera. There's such a beautiful ripple effect that your work has to do. So I want to That's why I wanted to have you on the program Shop. I think you are sitting on such a powerful lever here and on the other side of that, what I want to resences. Yet, what you talk about in your book and I can relate to, is it usually takes something really a horrible wound, you know, an awful, ugly divorce, a horrible bankruptcy, major illness, or something to really crack open the need for men and women too for that matter, but certainly for men to start to go, oh hang on here, I think I need some help. Something needs to go, needs to be done differently. So if you could speak a little bit too, you know how your work will help men not have to go through and

15:30 sort of those things in order to start that transformation healing process, you know. I think in twelve stuff they often say, you know, you're you start to get sober once you hit rock bottom. Yeah, question is how is that bottom? Yeah? You know, And I think it's something similar. I mean a lot of times this is this is not an awareness. This is not right. It's not not in our awareness, not in the romal possibility or the stigma either. The stigma is so great that you couldn't even imagine, or your defenses are so great you can't even acknowledge that you may need something. So I think my hope is that the book showcases, you know where, showcases different situations that men can see themselves in, or they can see themselves in the book in some way to say, oh, yeah, that's what I've been struggling with another piece, you know, I start with embracing vulnerability and finding community of safety, and finding safety in the community of men. One of the things we often do as men is we'll go for emotional support from women. We go for nurturing care from women.

16:49 It feels very different when another man offers that. Yes, I can imagine, And it's often, you know, and often the conversation around our relationships with our fathers often comes in in terms of what do we not get from our dads that we're yearning for from other men? Yes, right, And so I think finding that sense of community, finding that ability to be able to just share freely, to not be judged, to be held, and to realize I'm not the only one that's struggling and so and then I kind of taken another layer because I know that for many men, they're not necessarily ready to go out and do a big formal program where they're going in the woods being drums. They may not want to sit in a room in a circle with men, and I often offer there's something in the middle of like why don't we go out into nature for a few hours with other men and go hiking or go kayaking, or when I call those are men's soul adventures.

17:57 And in the sole adventure, I often say it's we're outdoor. We're we're outdoor adventure meets deeper male bonding meets soul connecting conversations. Yes, And I think what many men are yearning for is to be able to go deeper, have a deeper connection. And yet it's also one of the scariest things for many men. And so I often say that I will meet men and their suffering, how I will listen for their yearning and offer hope in the midst of both. Because, as you also read in my book, one of the one of the meetings of my Project Compassion Team, where we are striving to deepen compassion and police departments and federal law enforcement, we met with Senate staffers a week after the Uvaliti shooting. Yeah, and it just happened to be our meeting was scheduled and they didn't cancel it, and so we had it and in thirty minutes we talked about men's mental health, shootings, gun violence, police shootings, police suicides, and veterans suicides, which are more if you look at veterans and police suicides you know, men's suicides are already higher than women's. These suicides are in another category. Yes, yes, And when I think about it, what's the commonality of all of this, it's it's often men who have gone to a place of hopelessness. Yeah.

19:27 I think the addic of the anecdote is to offer hope and to offer opportunities for connection. I can, oh, so beautiful. Let's let our listeners and viewers just do on that as we take our first break. That's so beautiful, Sean, that is such a beautiful thing to usher in as a possibility. I'm your host, Doctor Earley's Cortes. We've been on the air with Sean Harvey, the chief Compassion Officer and founder of Warrior Compassion Men's Studio. We're just getting into some of the concepts in his book. After the break, we're to talk more about this notion of healing, healing wounds and what we can do about that, which we'll be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise A. L Se at elisecortes dot com. Now

21:00 back to working on Purpose. Thank you for staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I too, am dedicated to helping create a world where people realize their potential at work, are led by inspirational leaders that help help them find and contribute their greatness, and we do business that betters the world. Like Eileen Fisher, I continue to write my own books. So one of my latest books that came out in marsh of twenty twenty three is called The Great Revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business, and I wrote it for a business leaders to help them understand what today's workforce really wants. And how they can actually get that. So the second part of the book is twenty two best practices to help you actually get there. You can learn more about it at a Leascoortes dot com and find it on Amazon if you are just joining me. My guest is Sean Harvey. He's the author of Warrior Compassion, Unleashing the Healing Power of Men. Okay, so now I want to dig a little bit deeper here because what I think what you got to do at Eileen Fisher, and I know the work that you do today is so incredibly compelling, and you talk about at Aileen Fisher you began to under some of your own deeper wounds through the work, and you focused on three areas as employees as a group. They are unmet needs, limiting beliefs, and shadow really powerful that kind of digging. Can you talk a little about each of those three areas and why they help men, especially deal with the darkness of what they what they're doing against HM for sure, I uh of

22:30 those three. So coming in Dalen Fisher and into the personal transformation work and then ultimately leading it. You know, I both went through it and then I and then I taught it and then I and then I let it. I think for me, the the the unmet needs were some of them was was one of the first and most profound insights. Yeah. Well, really it's at its core is what did I not get as a child that really went to an unmet need that today I still desire? And when I don't get it, what is my reaction? And often that can be a very triggered or triggering reaction that is uncontrollable or war out of awareness, Yes, but when it happens, that's when we might explode, or we might shut down, or me we might withdraw. And so that was that was the first insight. And I think for so many men, we don't often want to look back at our childhood or we think we had a great childhood, or it's not something that we feel we need to explore. And often we're carrying over from childhood. And so I think there's there's the the unmet needs.

23:57 The limiting beliefs are what are those tapes? What are those tapes that have been embedded in us, that are that are in our hardwiring And as a friend of mine said, once you know that inner critic is often at play. Yes, when I went to the artist's commune, she said, so, what role in the orchestra is your inner critic play? And you might want to take it out of the conductor seat and maybe put it in the flute section or the base section or the obo and and and I think the whole gist here is we're not going to get rid of our tapes, as we're not going to get rid of our ego, but we have the opportunity to relax the ego, and we have an opportunity to recognize and address the tapes from a different level of awareness. And from that place of awareness, we can start to go my limiting beliefs and turn it into an affirming belief. But we have to catch it, and we have to And that's where the power the pause, the power of mindfulness, the power of just being present to what we're reacting to and how how we're responding, and to move from knee jerk reaction to thoughtful response. And then I think, you know the third and I'm going to add a fourth after this, but the third is our shadow and that's often what we can't see or what we're unaware of that totally activates us. And one of the best ways to see it

25:29 is when we see it in others. And so it's often that saying, if you see it, you've got it. And so that person that annoys me, that person that pisses me off, that person that I can't stand to be around. The real opportunity is to get curious to say, Okay, what is it about that person that I don't like within myself? You know? And what is when built around it? Where is that judgment coming from? And where is that this is wrong? I often say some of the best indicators are when you start to say things that start with should question to say, where do I should come from? If you start to have resentments or I'm sorry judgments, Okay, what am I judging? And what am I judging with myself? What do I not like that's here that I'm seeing in others? And so the shadow is is is often a way to unmask the things that have been masked within us. And then the fourth I would say, and this is becoming more and more pronounced, is trauma and just where have I been traumatized? What experience is? What? What experience have I built a story around that continues to haunt me? Consciously or unconsciously, and what inhibits me, what what prevents me, what creates fear for me? And and and you know, and a lot of the work I work, I work with men who operate in very hYP masculine systems, but

27:00 working with police, they're experiencing trauma on a day to day basis in a way that they may not even recognize how much it's impacting them. And for many officers, they don't have an outlet because they also don't have the awareness of what's really happening within their body, what's happening within their psyche, what's happening for them emotionally? Yes, yes, And so when I talk about any of this, what your compassion and compassion healing, it's really not about how am I compassionate to others first and foremost, it's how am I compassionate with myself to be able to start offering the self love to start healing the wounds they're just holding me back from being my truth and my and my authentic truth. Oh, Sean, this is so important now. And what I really appreciate about this is just you know, transformation work is is really messy, but it's also incredibly fulfilling and so important. And I want to now presence. Now that you've done that, You've given us those four years that we can delve into. Now I want to kind of flip flop on the other side again, back to the promise of this stuff here and again using your beautiful language, you say in your book, a soul adventure, which is kind of what we're going into here. We're going after a soul adventure.

28:22 A sole adventure is a transformative journey of self discovery, growth, and expansion that takes individuals on a deep explorion of their inner world and connection to their greater universe. It is a quest to discover the essence of one's being, purpose and truth, and a sole adventure, individuals embark on self exploration and embrace the unknown, stepping outside their comfort zones to tap into their authentic selves and connect with the vast possibilities within and around them. You talk about that, and you say then. Parker Palmer, a world renowned author on spirituality, It describes the soul as a wild animal, resilient, resourceful, savvy, and self sufficient. It knows how to survive in hard places.

29:04 Yet despite its toughness, the soul is also shy mm hmm. That really describes beautifully Sean. You know, the promise of stepping onto this very very vulnerable path. Mhmm. Yeah. You know, I think the best way I could describe it as a soul adventure. Yeah. I mean, I think I think in today's in today's world where we're looking for the insight, the quick hit, the TikTok, the TikTok wisdom, yeah, you know that can change our lives. We're looking for how to make our lives better and and I think the unfortunate part is it's it's not a quick fixed journey, and we can And that's why I went to seminary as well, because I knew we're going to do the real work with men. It had to be done at the soul level. Yes, and it really requires a psycho spiritual approach, not a psychological approach, mirror psychological approach, and not to negate it. But I think that there's still so much left on the table when we're not adding the spiritual or the soulful peace that and none of this, in my mind is a good, bad, right wrong, This is better, this is not. I just always ask two questions, what's been

30:37 the cost that what has been the benefit to your life? But what's been the cost of what you've been missing out on? Yes? And I think for so many men, they're used to answering or we're getting defensive, or we're going into defense around this, you know, the good and the bad, the right and the wrong. But it's different when we say, but what's been the cost and what's been the benefit for your life? When they really start to think about what the costs of and what they've been missing out on and what the opportunity is for the type of life that they really want. You know, I think one of the things that that complicates this but also creates an opening and an opportunity is that, in very short order, the rules, roles, and expectations around men, manhood, masculinity, gender and power have all shifted pretty radically. Yes, so I think men are often also, you know, in that suffering, are also feeling lost and confused around where they fit. And I think a lot of our a lot of our inclusion efforts have also been projected in a way that a lot of men feel like they are excluded from this. Yes, I would agree, And so men are often trying to figure out, you know, with with often limited with limited resources, limited coping tools, resources for them to try to navigate this world it's changing around them radically, and you know, not

32:12 necessarily having a roadmap for me. It was really also the question because I've been in I've been in so many challenging or failed relationship attempts, I should say. And I kept yearning for love, right, and I kept hearing that saying that I couldn't stand at the time, which is, well, how can you love someone else until you know how to love yourself? And I'm like, where's the freaking roadmap on how to love myself? I don't know how to do this, you know, And so hopefully my book has become that roadmap based on all the trial and error, and you know, and I also want to say, you know, I you know, I also don't strive to be the guru. I don't strive to be the savior on the mountain saying here's the way, right, you know what I mean.

33:07 I struggle with addiction. I've been homeless, I have changed and lost jobs when I was at my worst. You know, I know the pain that can come from being out of alignment, from being disconnected, and I also have had the experience of doing the healing where to know what alignment looks like, what love looks like, what love feels like, what success looks like, and to have been on both sides of the spectrum or the continuum, and knowing how detrimental it can be. And especially you know, because there's also that misnomer. For me, and we're talking about purpose, my career was my identity. Yes, well, my life was a shit storm.

34:01 At times, I looked really good on paper, and I made sure I continue to look good on paper. At the same time as my life was onrap, my personal life was unraveling. And so I think for so many men who are successful leaders, you know, this is also these messages are also for them who may not have what they want in their lives, even if they've gotten all the prizes from playing the game. Yeah, oh, okay, let's take our last break on that one, because I want to follow up with a few more questions after the break. I'm your host, doctor Releas Cortesh. We've been on here with Sean Harvey. He's the chief Compassion Officer and founder of the Warrior Compassion Men's Studio we've been getting deeper into the importance of looking at healing and trauma. After the break, we're going to get into this little personnikity area called existential questions. Say which We'll be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com.

35:36 Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise A. L Se at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose. Yes, thank yous staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, Doctor release Cortes. I mentioned in the last break that I just put up my book The Great Revitalization in March of twenty three. I gave you a company for that on my website. It is an assessment. It's a three page assessment that you can take for your company to see to what extent you are meeting the standards of today's workforce. So it's there on the how we can help tap. You can find it at least cooretest dot com if you're just now joining us today. My guest is Warrior Compassion, Unleashing and Healing and Power of Men author Sean Harvey. Okay, Sean, so one of the things that I align with you on beautifully and I can well imagine this how this made you very popular when you were young, but you have been able to access the importance of asking existential questions and what I love about that, especially juxtapost with what you shared just before the last break about how men can be wildly successful against what's aciety says successes, but be wholly miserable on the inside because they're not getting the intimacy and love and connection that they

37:07 want. And so you talk about this notion of the you know, buried beneath the depths of our being, beneath the layers of societal conditioning, the noise of day life lay profound questions that stew our souls and challenge our understanding of existence. And it's important to ask those questions. You talk a little bit about that, please, I'm just taking on those words just because I you know, and as I said earlier, the my struggles early on in my career finding the right fit, so I never really was was. It took a while for me to figure out where I was a fit. It took me a longer time to figure out what my purpose was. And at the same time, I became really good at being a career coach and helping other people find their purpose. And you know, I've been on the journey before I was on the journey. I mean, I think the first the first experience was when I was sixteen. I came out as a gay man.

38:12 It's a gay young man at fifteen, and then at sixteen I started a gain lesbian youth group for the city of Dayton, Ohio in nineteen eighty nine or ninety before it was cool and hip. And when I started it, you know, I was creating mission and vision statements before I knew what they were. And I actually created an organization that is around thirty something years later now supporting all of southwest Ohio from Columbus Cincinnati over the UNIONA border. And when I when I over time, when I would make career decisions, if I went for money, prestige, title status, I would fall flat on my face within six months. If I get quiet and go back to what that experience was, I would always think back to what I did when I was sixteen, and I'm like, remind me, oh, yeah, I'm committed to service. And when I made it less about me and my ego and more about the way I could serve, that's when the doors would open to each step and I would just listen for what felt right, and those moves led me to where I am today. So for those people who are just now catching this idea of except to questions, I think it's important that we talk about what we mean by those, so things like who am I? Why am I here? And that's really important that people understand what we're talking about here because your path is so beautiful and nuanced, And the

39:45 other thing I want to say quickly about what you just said about coming out at sixteen, I really appreciate how openly and beautiful you share in your book. Sean. You're so accessible in your book. And I appreciate the relationship that you develo with your father over over the years. He was not a fan of you being being being gay, and I really appreciate how you navigated that journey with him and how you talk about where it went. And I want the reason I want to bring that up is for listeners and viewers wherever you are on this, whether you're a parent, whether you're the you're the one trying to come out. I just really think that Shawn's experience is really powerful mm hmm. You know, And I was just going to say that these experiences led me to my my my second master's degree where I focus on existential psychotherapy as my as my degree. And the question so you started to answer the what are the four questions? You know? And and I think what you just hit on though, and what you just shared was the final question. So I often say, it's, oh my, why am I here? What am I here to do? And then how do I love?

41:00 And I honestly think it was through healing my relationship with my father that that's where I actually was able for the first time to feel the experience of visceral, unconditional love. After fourteen years of not talking and being told I was going to hell because I was getting in the year journey with my father where I asked myself at one point when I was deep in my resentment, and I said, Sean, you have a choice. You can either stay in resentment or you can lean into love. It was the moment that I leaned into love that our relationship changed, and it transformed in time to the point when my father, two days before he passed, you know, said he was proud of the man that I became and did not never let anyone extinguish my flame. And I think we often underestimate the relationships with our fathers and the impact has and the desire we have to the connection at a shaman once say that we are integrating men who learn from unintegrated fathers. And it's not a dig in our fathers. It's a reality of what evolution looks like and how we evolve. But I think at the core this book, you know, we can talk about purpose, we can talk about existential questions, we can talk about spirituality, we can talk about healing, but ultimately this

42:31 book is about how to help men learn to love in a new way and then from that place the ripple effect. You talk about if I can learn how to love from a place an unconditional love, and I often say it's this movement from an intellectualized idea of love with conditions what many of us learn. And until we can have a greater emotional capacity, we will intellectualize and rationalize what this feels like and name it through our thoughts. And then there's a and then that the healing allows us to move to the visceral experience of unconditional love. And so, as a gay man who works with white nationalist and far right extremists, when someone asks me, Sean, how can you do that? You know, I think we are seeing, even in the last few weeks, what great division looks like. Yes, right. And what I will say is I can see I've done enough of my work that I can see the humanity in each man and I encounter, and I can love them in their humanity, even if I abhor, or deny, or or or am so different from their views. But I also have a sense that oftentimes those views are leading to suffering. And that's where I can say I have compassion for the suffering. I meet them in the suffering, and again, like I said earlier, I've listened for the earning and off for

44:04 help. It's so powerful the work that you do. And I think it's important at this juncture, especially now, Sean, that we make a distinction. This is something that you do in the book. You distinguish between therapy, so that's you know, having a one on one relationship with a counselor or a therapist and personal transformation work. And so I think it would be good for us to be able to help probably at this point going great, this is all I'm in. I'm but how do I do this? So I think it would be interesting to kind of distinguish those formats if you could. I think therapy is the one on one conversation, you know, it could be other modalities. It could be E M, d R. It could be some trauma based work. There are other types of arts therapy, what have you. And I've heard this from other other other men that say, you know, healing as a solo adventure. I'm like, sure, there's some work you have to do alone. But I think the reality for a lot of men is what we often need most is community. In a sense of community, you know, I was in a conversation once, and what we were talking about is, you know, from a coaching perspective that women are often seeking purpose, help around purpose and clarifying purpose and finding their voice from that place of purpose, and men are often getting coaching around relationship

45:37 and being relational and having the emotions Yes, you're right, And so that's I think why it's so important the personal transformation work is often in a group setting. It's often we are mirrors of each other's humanity, so we can start to see and start to feel and start to connect in a different way. And I think it's also important to you know, acknowledge most of what's out there today. When we look at what's the plight of men, it's really this epidemic of loneliness and isolation. Yes, yes, And the Surgeon General just came out with the report that the United States is experiencing an epidemic and has been for quite some time, an epidemic of loneliness, and those numbers are exacerbated for men. And when we think about what is the anecdote And when I was in you know, my healing, you know, when you are wounded, the first place you want to go is to isolate, and the anecdote to help heal the wounds is connection, community, intimacy, and love. And what we haven't talked about is the intimacy piece. Yeah, and we're running out of time so we won't be able to treat it.

46:52 But it's so so important, right right. It's a it's a critical ingredient. It really is an It's different from love and sex, as you talked about on your book. Just quickly because I want to be able to ste presences for our listeners and viewers you talk about, you say, and this this world, I'll have you just quickly come and then we'll close the show. You say, as men, we had everything inside of us when we were born, our masculine and feminine energies and qualities. As we grow older, many of us lost access to parts of ourselves, or, as my dear friend Ken Mossman would say, we voted them off the island based on our conditioning or the messages we receive from the world, our parents, friends, peers, faith media that we internalize as our truth that informed our belief systems in worldview. For many men, we voted off our feminine attributes and have been left with our masculine energy, attributes and qualities. This is not a question of right, wrong, good or bad. However, what has been the cost? What have you been missing by not accessing your feminine energy? I think we would be remiss if we didn't say that. Part of what you're putting forth in your book is this notion of integrating into a wholeness here. I think that's so important. So if you could quickly come and then we'll need to close the show. Yeah, I think we.

48:06 I think the essence of it is there's many of us are are out of balance and in order to come into our full humanity. And often what I would say to chiefs the police when I meet them is when I hope your cops get in touch with their femine so they can come into the full humanity. And so I think that, and they often would not even have a reaction, They would just have a curiosity say so, so tell me how you do that? Yeah, And I think there's there's something in the message. I think there's something in the And no matter where I go, the the opening work that seems to open the most doors is when I talk about humanity and coming into our full humanity and coming into our shared humanity, taking away identity and politics and all of the things that feel like they divide us, and coming into our shared humanity, which is something that can unite us.

49:00 The world needs you desperately, my friend, Sean Harvey. I am very very happy to call you as a friend, a colleague, and someone I'm shouting out the important work you're doing in the world. Thank you so much for being a guest and working on purpose. It's great to have you back. Thank you so much. It's good pleasure. Listeners and viewers. If you will learn more about Sean Harvey and I think you do the work that he does at Warrior Compassion Men's studio or his new book, Warrior Compassion, go to his website. It would you be surprised to know is Warriorcompassion dot com last week? If you missed the live show, you can always get to be a recorded podcast. We were on here with Michael Levy, who has helped over four hundred and fifty companies greatly improve their engagement scores and reduce turnover through the design and development of award winning employee reward and recognition programs as a CEO and co founder of work proud. He regularly advises and implements the recognition strategy for fortune one thousand hr innovators. We talked about the latest best practices in recognizing employees to engage their hearts and minds. Next week, we'll be on the air with Talia Fox talking about HERNEIH book, The Power of Conscious Connection for happus to transform how you live and lead. See you there, and remember work is one of the best adventures and means of realizing our potential and making the impact with crave. So let's work on Purpose.

50:15 We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W four C Why. Together, We'll create a world where business operates conscientiously, Leadership inspires and passion performance, and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.