Feb. 3, 2026

Return to Office Mandates: A Step Forward or Backward?

Return to Office Mandates: A Step Forward or Backward?
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Remote and hybrid work opened the door to greater autonomy, focus, and balance for millions of workers. Today, that door is closing as companies reinstate return-to-office mandates. What’s fueling this reversal, and what are leaders overlooking? In this episode, Monica Browning Mitchell unpacks the latest research on RTO decisions and offers guidance on how leaders can approach them with intention, empathy, and purpose—without undermining performance or culture.

Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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W FOURCY Radio.

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working in Purpose program, which has

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been brought to you with passionate and pride since February

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of twenty fifteen. Already, thanks for tuning in this week.

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Great to have you. I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes.

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If we have not met before and you don't know me,

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I'm a workforce advisor, organizational organizational psychologist, management consultant, local therapists,

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speaker and author. My team and I at gusto Now

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help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by building

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a dynamic, high performance culture, inspirational leadership and nurturing managers

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activated by meeting and purpose. And did you know that

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inspired employees and purpose led companies outperform their satisfied peers

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by a factor of two point twenty five to one.

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In other words, purpose and inspiration are good for the

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bottom line. You can learn more about us and how

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we can work together at gustodashnow dot com or my

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personal site at least Coortes dot com. In today's program,

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we have with us doctor Monica Mitchell. She's a former

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Fortune fifty leader with experience and telecommunications networks in itsystems,

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leadership development, change management, and portfolio management. Her current passions

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include advisory services to small businesses, research in the area

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of employee engagement in the era of return to office

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and AI ethics. Her recent doctoral dissertation explored and sought

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out how to mitigate return to office mandates in fortune

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five hundred companies we should be talking about today. She

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joined today from Dallas, doctor Mitchell, welcome back to Working

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on Purpose.

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Thank you. It's great to be here.

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So the last time we were on air together just

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what seven months ago? You have now since retired from

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AT and T and now you are, doctor Monica Mitchell.

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How exciting is that?

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It is exciting or relief to be done? Amazing? And

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I learned so much about how our lives changed since

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twenty twenty and what employees expect from their employers, and

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that has changed.

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It really has. And you know that's one of the

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things when I first met you, as you know when

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you're at AT and T, immediately I got this is

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a smart woman. She's got a curious mind. That was

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my immediate draw to you. And like you. Of course,

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my research and my books have also looked at how

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much the world and the world of business and what

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the workforce wants and needs from the world of work

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in order to give their best to want to stick around.

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So I'm excited to dive into this conversation, so let's

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go full barrel. So for our listeners and viewers who

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haven't yet redigitation like I have, let's talk a little bit.

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Just share a little bit about your background and also

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why did you choose to focus on return to office

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for your research.

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Well, as it came time for me to do the dissertation,

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I was neck deep in return to office as the

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company that I worked for was working through a series

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of oh, come back one to three days, and then

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next year it was three to five days, and then

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they announced that they intended the following year to go

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full on five days, and the employee base literally was revolting.

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And being a Fortune fifty company, they had people in

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the Boomer generation, lots of gen X, lots of Millennials,

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and they were bringing gen Z and working across those

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generations doing leadership development employee engagements. I expected gen Z

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to have pretty interesting opinions about that, because they came

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into the workforce expecting some flexibility. Millennials were having children

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and really needing flexibility. Gen X and Boomers had been

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raised corporate careers where you just did what you were

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told and you didn't ask questions and even they were revolting. Yeah,

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and my curiosity was just peaked, like what happened that?

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Now all the generations are revolting and we had coffee

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badging and you know, employees at Dell it was making

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the news. They were told if you don't do this,

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you won't be promotable, and vast majorities of them it

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made the news were like, fine, don't promote me. And

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so I had to ask myself, Hey, what changed? And

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b is there something that leadership can do if they

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really feel like the company needs their people back in

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the office some number of days of the week that

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will make this palatable and re engage the workforce. And

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so as my doctoral project, I wanted to examine what

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would in fact be some sort of middle ground where

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the company could get what they wanted, but employees wouldn't

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outright revolt. So my research questions were why were employees

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feeling this way? And then what would make them more

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amenable to what management was asking? And I guess we'll

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get to some of those answers as we progress.

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Yeah, So listeners and viewers, So what we want to

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cover in this conversation is want I want her to

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be able to talk about some of the case for telecommunity,

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for telecommuting, which is really what we're talking about here,

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and why employees like it, why they were of course

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against the idea of having not having access to it,

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Why do employers not like it, what's the case against it?

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And then we definitely want to finish the conversation by

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talking about what would make it palatable, what would make

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this actually work for both parties. So that's what we're

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going to focus on here. So we learned, of course

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during the pandemic that you know here we could be

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quite productive and efficient and get things done with telecommunity.

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So and to your point, so much has shanged since

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twenty twenty. Nobody will ever forget where they were in

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March of twenty twenty when the world stopped basically, so

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let's talk a little bit, just start there with this

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idea here that this idea I know that there's such

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a connection to satisfaction when we can actually work from

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a tele telecommunings van toage points. Let's start there.

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If we can, there certainly is satisfaction. I think you

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do have to back up all the way to March

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of twenty twenty to realize what changed. They ripped the

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workplace out from under us. And when we first went remote,

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I was doing online happy hours and online lunch to

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make my employees feel supported and not trapped in their

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houses because we didn't know how to act when we

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couldn't go to the office. We literally weren't allowed to write.

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And that lasted a good six eight months, and then

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they started saying I don't really need that. I've adapted.

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Yeah, yep.

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And then as we saw the percentage of people dying

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or getting you know, really really sick and taking months

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to recover. I think what we saw, particularly in gen

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Z and some of the older generations that have always

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just done what they were told, is a reevaluation of

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work life balance and what are you willing to trade

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just for money? And they really re examined their value structure.

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Whereas millennials and gen Z had kind of come into

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the workforce reevaluating their value structure from the beginning, you

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had the old oldermployees doing that as well, and so

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when return to office started, you now had an entire

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employee base questioning the old work structure. And what we

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found was they understood the employer could set the rules,

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but they wanted to return on their investment in getting

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to and from work and how much energy they put

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into it, and so they knew they could be a

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productive at home. What was it really worth to be

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productive in the office.

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Yeah, And then one thing that we became vastly clear

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to me and on my research on the various conversations

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I've had on this general topic, is up until the pandemic,

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we really did center our whole lives around work. And

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that meant that wherever we worked, where we lived, it's

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where our kids went to school, it's what's where we

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found our friends. And after the pandemic, people moved. You

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talk about the senior research too. People actually even moved

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in order to be around more of the people that

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they wanted to be around or the circumstances in which

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they wanted to live. And so the workplace was no

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longer the center of people's lives. And I think that's

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so important for our listeners and viewers and leaders to

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understand they're really having trouble letting go of that they are.

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And you know, I think we also forget that because

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people were working from home, childcare centers began to shut down.

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They didn't have customers. Well they didn't start back up,

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not all of them. And so when business leaders announced

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return to office, sometimes literally with no notice, there were

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nowhere for those kids to go. Yeah, or the few

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places that were open could charge twice as much. Right, Well,

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we didn't give big enough raises to cover twice as much.

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Right right, Right, So well, let's talk a little bit

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about what you found. So there's some some of your findings.

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Of course, there's three things, of course that I want

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to talk about here that really relate to what's what's

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the employee's perspective on the matter return to office. There's

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a couple that I want to get to that's going

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to speak to what can we do to mitigate and

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create a place where or you know, a medium for

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return to office. So I know that we already know

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that one of the things that you found was, of

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course at the return to office mandate, of course, decreased

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employee's autonomy and their trust. Let's talk a little bit

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about that finding.

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So most companies who declared return to office said it's

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about collaboration and training the next generation. But a lot

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of them didn't put the right parameters around the return

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to office structure. So if you announced one to three days,

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but you didn't have people in on the same days,

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and your younger employees weren't going to get mentoring because

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they would show up and sit alone, and your older

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employees would show up and there was no one to mentor,

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and so they're like, why am I here? A lot

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of companies sold off real estate, and so if everybody

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did come in on the same day, there weren't enough chairs,

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which frustrates people. Downtown businesses had closed due to no customers,

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and so there wasn't enough places to park, not enough

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places to eat, and employees found that experience to be

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very frustrating. This all created blocks, if you will, to

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their engagement and their willingness to stay all day actually

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engaged with their peers, and all of that eventually also

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impacts productivity. So if we thought we lost productivity just

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from the commute, we were so wrong.

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Yeah, and you also talked about how you know, then

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all those those things where if you've been living working

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from home and now you're now eating out every day,

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that's expensive and you're having to park, so all the

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additional costs that it took to be able to come

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back to the office that really weren't part of the

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paycheck either were not really factored in or considered now.

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And I think it's often difficult for the executive layer

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to remember that when you're in the lass than one

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hundred thousand range or one hundred and fifty thousand range,

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twenty one to twenty six percent inflation is a whole

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lot bigger than your four percent raise.

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Yeah. Yeah, that was one of your findings was that

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it did increase the employees costs burdens, And I think

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that's so so important to understand. So that was one

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of the other things. And so then the other thing

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too that you talked about in your fundings that I

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thought was really interesting was that the mandates negatively impacted

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mental health and work life balance.

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Yes, one of the things that happened with work from

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home is because people weren't in the office, they would

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walk on their lunch hour, walk the dog, take conference calls,

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going up and down the sidewalk, all kinds of things.

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Going back into the office. One of my respondents said

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they gained twenty five pounds because they were eating out

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instead of healthy meals at home, and they had lost

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the time for their workout and all of that, you know,

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starts to add up. One mentioned that they were getting

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sick two to three more times a year and that

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was costing them medical expenses to recover because it actual

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for drugs or whatever. And maybe they were you know,

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and you know, compromised or whatever. And so there are

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those problems, both mental health and physical health that are

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happening cramming people into more crowded spaces.

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Yeah, for sure. One of your other things that you

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that you've found that I thought was kind of interesting

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was that attitudes towards their return to office mandates were

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mixed yet pragmatic. You see that.

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Yeah, And and most employees said, look, I get that,

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if the company wants to be in person, I can

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choose to work there or not. I get that, and

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I'm willing to make that choice based on you know,

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whatever's available in my city or the fact that I'm

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nearing retirement, or you know, whatever my deal is. But

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I would like to feel like they told me the

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truth about I am coming back. Don't tell me it's

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collaboration if there isn't a seat for my whole team,

254
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yeah right, don't ask me to bear all the costs

255
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make it worth my while. So can I get promoted?

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Will you give me some financial incentive to do this?

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And can I still have flexibility to take care of

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my kid's doctor's appointment or you know, are you going

259
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to nickel and dimee me on time and call me

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an exempt employee?

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M h m hmm.

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Yeah.

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You know what I would say to that is, you know,

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one thing that I'm very keenly aware of that I've

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had so many other guests on over the over the

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time talking about some of these issues too, is you know,

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thinking about we want our Ultimately, people want to have

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access to their whole life right. They're happy to work

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hard for you and give their best and really help

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move the needle. And they also want to be able

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to see their kids' soccer games. They want to be

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able to get it'll work out of the morning before

273
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they come into work. They want to be able to

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occasionally have dinner with their family. Gosh, what a concept.

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And so you know, I saw people during the pandemic,

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you know, the whole parades of caravans of people reconnecting neighbors,

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adults sipping on something, the kids happily peddling along on

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their cycles. The dogs happily joining along. And it was

279
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this beautiful reconnection that you never saw before until the pandemic.

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Right, And you know, I think you and I have

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talked about it. People don't want to do happy hour anymore,

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but they missed that connection to their neighborhoods that previously.

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I don't know that we knew we could have. But

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things changed. People reevaluated live priorities and again at work,

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they want to be respected, valued, but let to have

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that other part of their life that we rediscovered exactly.

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Yeah, and what I've said in one of my books is,

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you know, we can't put the juney back in the bottle.

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We people have made this realization, this discovery, this evolution

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has happened. We can't go back in time. We can't

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go back into the the anals of history. So anyway,

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I am so delighted to have you want to talk

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about this because I think it's so so important. And

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we're going to grab our break here next, so our

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listeners of yours can kind of think about what has

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been important for them about return Obviously, if they're dealing

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with it now, why is flexibility and telecommuting important to them?

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Because after the break. We want to talk about why

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employers don't like it and what they're trying to be

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able to get out of the situation. So let's grab

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that first break. I'm your host, doctor Alisa Cortez. We've

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been on the air with doctor Monica Mitchell. She's a

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former Fortune fifty leader with experience and telecommunications, networks and

304
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IT systems, leadership development, change management, and portfolio management. Her

305
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current passions today include advisory services to small businesses, researching

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the area of employee engagement, era of return to office

307
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in AI ethics. We'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

311
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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

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at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

315
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:53.079
your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose

316
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.480
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

317
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to open a conversation with Elise Send an email to

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a lease Alisee at at least Coortes dot com. Now

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00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:06.119
back to working on Purpose.

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Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor release Cortes, as I too,

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am dedicated to helping create a world where organizations thrife

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because they're people thrive and they're led by inspirational leaders

324
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that help them find to contribute their greatness who do

325
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business at betters of the World. I keep researching and

326
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writing my own books, so one of my latest came

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out is called a Great Revitalization How activating meaning and

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purpose can radically in liven your business. And I wrote

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it to really in lign with what doctor Monica has

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been saying too, to help listeners or excuse me, readers

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understand today's discerning workforce. What do they want to need

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from you? And then I give you twenty two best

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practices to equip you in your leadership of your culture.

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To provide that. You can find my books on Amazon

335
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.000
or my personal site at least Coortes dot com if

336
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you are just now joining us. My guest is doctor

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Monica Mitchell, who is the author of the Doctoral dissertation

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entitled Exploring and Mitigating the impacts of Return to Office

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in Fortune five hundred company, which we've been talking about

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on today's program. So for this segment here, let's focus

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on the view of companies of employers here of the

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case against telecommunicating telecommunity. So one of the first things

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that they said, which you and I have talked about, was, oh,

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productivities declient. So let's talk about that concern from employers.

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So that is a concern that executives have repeated for

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fifteen to twenty years. This well predates the pandemic. There

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are numerous academic as well as business studies that show

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it's blatantly false. People can be productive in a telecommute situation.

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It depends on how the environment's set up and what

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you're measuring and the tools that you give the employee,

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so you can set it up to succeed or fail

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depending on how you enable the employee and how you

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train your leaders to engage with employees who aren't sitting

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with them. And that truly is a leadership function that

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employers can support or not. And that is a choice,

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and I think we all know a company can choose

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that or not. But to just blatantly say well, it's

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productivity is a bit of a falsehood. And we saw

359
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proved in many many corporations during the pandemic that people

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can be productive when called on to do so. And

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they were employees came to know that and they just

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wanted the truth. You need me back in the office.

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Don't make up a lie, tell me the truth. Why

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do you need me there? What do you want me

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to accomplish? I need you to value me and my contribution.

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And if I need to be in the office, tell

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me what i'm there for. What's my purpose? So that

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I can do that, but also value that I need

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some other things. And I think it's very interesting that

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during the pandemic many executives use the telecommute and we're

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going to keep you out of the office for your

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safety as virtue signaling we the great corporations are going

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to give you this flexibility to keep you safe. And

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they really advertised it to their customers as, look what

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we've been able to adjust our business model to do.

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We are putting employees and customers first. And you know,

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they really held themselves out as heroes for switching to

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this model. And as soon as they were able to

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start switching back. It became about re exerting control and

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under the guise of people aren't as productive, we need

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to be better for our customers, and employees just didn't

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buy that. They wanted to know the truth. Are you

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controlling costs? Do you just not trust me? Just tell

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me the truth and we can work this together.

385
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.480
Yeah, And so part of what you also talked about

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was that you know, some of the more traditional rooted practices,

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of course, which is where you know, managers can actually

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see people. So there was this idea that they could

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actually monitor them that way because they could see them,

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and that is that's, of course, you know, managing by

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presence instead of actually by productivity. And so part of

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what you also talked about was this notion of that's

393
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the wrong focus. If we're focused on presents versus are

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people actually producing? That would be a better way to

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be able to ascertain the extent to which these people

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are productive, not just because I can't see them. I

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think that's a really critical part of this discussion too.

398
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Right well, and I think I know at the company

399
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I worked at, we got people back in the office

400
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and then leadership started saying, but we're not seeing the

401
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innovation we want. Well, of course you're not. They're not engaged, right,

402
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:11.519
they're just present, right right.

403
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:13.799
Yeah, it's just amazing. And that was the other thing

404
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:15.559
that I found really interesting about in your research too,

405
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:20.279
just how much you know the decline in full time

406
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remote work. I mean you said something like twenty seven

407
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percent of workdays were spent at home in May of

408
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:31.079
twenty twenty four compared to sixty percent in May of

409
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:35.480
twenty twenty. Yes, that's a huge difference, a huge decline,

410
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:37.400
so much.

411
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A huge percentage of the fortune five hundred went to

412
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four or more days of work in the office.

413
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:48.759
Now, another huge thing that we heard over and over

414
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:51.440
and over again is that part of the reason that

415
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:54.240
employers don't like the idea of telecommunity is is they

416
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:57.359
feel that it really negatively impacts their culture. Let's talk

417
00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:00.160
about that one so well.

418
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:06.079
In the sense that we are trying to bring in

419
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:13.480
gen Z, I believe research is showing that they don't

420
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:22.880
learn well remotely about your corporate values, how you want

421
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:27.680
to treat your customers. That's kind of hard to learn

422
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:34.119
in a fully remote setting. Unfortunately, the way companies went

423
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:38.880
about the mentoring and bringing them back to the office.

424
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:45.400
Was this haphazard one to three days and they didn't

425
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:54.200
assign those cohorts of new employees two older mentors who

426
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:56.359
were to be in the office the same day. And

427
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:01.240
so you literally had gen Z folks showing up to

428
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:04.960
an empty office building m h and the mentor showing

429
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.880
up the next day to an empty office building, right,

430
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:12.000
and nobody saw the purpose because it wasn't well coordinated. Well,

431
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:18.720
that is a leadership failure, not a factor of where

432
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:23.279
employees work or when. It's literally a lack of coordination

433
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:25.400
and management could have done a better job.

434
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:30.240
Yeah, yeah, So from a from the organizational vantage point,

435
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.640
doctor Monica, what what else can you help us fill

436
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:36.000
in here? For what why companies have so dug their

437
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:39.960
heels And I personally have been frankly flabbergusted at just

438
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.680
the strength of this response. How was fill in this?

439
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:44.799
Why? Why are?

440
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:49.480
Why else are companies so insistent on this return to office?

441
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:56.480
It is a re exertion of executive control. It is

442
00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:01.240
a need to address the mentoring uh of gen Z,

443
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.599
but a fundamental lack of understanding. They don't want to

444
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:07.319
be in the office five days a week either, They

445
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:10.960
want and value flexibility, but the days they are in,

446
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:19.079
they want planned mentoring and knowing that what they're doing

447
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:22.200
there is going to help build the skills they need

448
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.720
for the future, not just checking a box to be there.

449
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:33.519
And so I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of how

450
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:40.519
the workforce is shifting and what it takes to engage them. Yeah,

451
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:49.160
that we're lacking. There's some interesting research another dissertation that

452
00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:54.279
was done in one of the Northeast universities showing that

453
00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:01.920
really locking in on hard stand as return to office

454
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:07.240
also seems to be related to the pay gap between

455
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:13.880
the CEO and the next highest paid person, and the stronger,

456
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:21.200
higher paid CEOs tend to lock in on it's got

457
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:23.759
to be my way, and this is the way I

458
00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:26.200
was raised in corporate America, so that must be the

459
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:27.000
way that works.

460
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:32.480
I don't have the research on this, but we have

461
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:34.599
discussed this in other other ways that if you look

462
00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:37.119
at some of the demographics, and the generational piece of

463
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:39.960
it too is if you're over like sixty or whatever,

464
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.960
which a lot of the CEOs probably are, and to

465
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:45.400
your point, you'll have this comfortable life that you're you're

466
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.359
really not able to see and you sort of mentioned

467
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:51.319
this before that you know, there's a whole huge squafth

468
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:53.240
of people out there that don't have that kind of

469
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:55.440
a lifestyle, that aren't being supported in the way that

470
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:59.400
you are as a CEO or as an executive, that

471
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:02.720
are eating that's some kind of flexibility to really make

472
00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:06.839
their lives work, and that disconnect is huge, and we

473
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.400
had it. One thing that was interesting is during the pandemic,

474
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:11.920
even you know, we could see that the C suite,

475
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:13.720
you know, they were in the same little box on

476
00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:16.720
the on the computer screen as we were. We could

477
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:19.000
see when their kids walked by and you know, in

478
00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:21.480
their pajamteras or whatever. So it sort of leveled the

479
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:24.559
playing field. But then that went away when we started

480
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:26.960
coming back to the office, right.

481
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:32.000
You know. That was one of the things that really

482
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:38.759
started my interest in this research was realizing that we

483
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:42.119
were asking our employees to come back pay for parking,

484
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:46.960
paid double for gas, pay for lunch, but the officers

485
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:54.599
had assigned seats, preserved parking, a gas allowance. They were

486
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:55.920
feeling none of that.

487
00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:00.200
Pain, right right, right right, yeah, And I saw I

488
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.559
really appreciate just how you've really brought to life some

489
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.920
of this what's under this here for the workforce and

490
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:09.880
why are they so resistant? And I so so applaud

491
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:11.240
your work you know, That's why I wanted to have

492
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.200
you on. I think I was after you for like months,

493
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.680
like when can we talk about this on air? So allri, well,

494
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:19.720
let's grab our last break here and let our listeners

495
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.240
and viewers think about if you're a leader, you know,

496
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.920
and you're really hanging on this idea of bringing your

497
00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:27.519
people back to the office, what is that, what's driving that?

498
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:31.000
Consider that as we go on this last break. I'm

499
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:32.960
your host, doctor e Relice Cortes. We run the air

500
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:36.000
with doctor Monica Mitchell. She's a former Fortune fifty leader

501
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.119
with experience and telecommunications, networks and IT systems, leadership development,

502
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:44.039
change management, and portfolio management. Our current passions include advisory

503
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.359
services to small businesses, research in the area of employee engagement,

504
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:49.599
in the area of return to office, and AI ethics.

505
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.440
We've been talking in this segment about why companies are

506
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.240
interested and want their employees to return to office after

507
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.160
the WAK. We're going to talk about the way forward

508
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:00.440
to make return to office work for both of themployees

509
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:01.680
and employers alike.

510
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:20.240
To be right back, Doctor Elise Cortes is a management

511
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:24.640
consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author,

512
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:28.400
she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and

513
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:33.640
develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

514
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:36.720
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to

515
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:39.680
invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit

516
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.920
her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to

517
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:51.480
get your employees working on purpose. This is working on

518
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:55.119
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

519
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.960
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email

520
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:03.160
to Alise Ali se At at leastcortes dot com. Now

521
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:04.960
back to working on Purpose.

522
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:11.440
Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to working

523
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.960
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Early score Tes. As

524
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.200
you know by now, this program is dedicated to empowering

525
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:18.279
and inspiring you along your journey to realize more of

526
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:20.319
your potential. If you want to learn more about how

527
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.279
we can work together and learn about the Gusto Now

528
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.480
Academy for both leaders and individuals on various journeys alike,

529
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:28.440
make your way to Gustodeshnow dot com and then go

530
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.559
to the training tab. You can find the academy there

531
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:33.079
if you are just now joining us. My guest is

532
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.880
doctor Monica Mitchell, who is the author of the doctoral

533
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:40.160
dissertation entitled Exploring and Mitigating the Impact Impacts of Return

534
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:42.839
to Office in Fortune five hundred Companies, which we've been

535
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:45.960
talking about on today's program. So for this last segment,

536
00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:48.680
let's dive into how we can make this work. And

537
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:50.359
before we get into that, I think it would be

538
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.279
useful to talk about the frame that you use to

539
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:55.319
be able to make sense of what you're looking at

540
00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:57.279
in your research, and that, as I understand it is

541
00:33:57.319 --> 00:33:59.759
the work adjustment theory. Is that right right?

542
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:06.160
Remember that I saw this outright revolt and I had

543
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:11.199
to ask, is there something the employer can do to

544
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:15.679
prevent the revolt and come to terms with the employees?

545
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:19.920
And so as I was doing the literature review and

546
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:24.119
looking for some framework that could help me answer that question,

547
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:31.360
I came across this research from nineteen seventies and eighties

548
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:39.000
I think called work adjustment theory, in which they theorized

549
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:46.480
and proved that employers provide an environment and rules and

550
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.000
tasks that they need done. The employee provides skills and

551
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:59.239
abilities and they expect payment. And then if the employer

552
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:05.000
changed changes the task or the environment, the worker either

553
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:09.920
has to adjust or they expect more payment or some

554
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:13.760
other adjustment for the adjustments that they're making when the

555
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:19.199
task changes. And that seemed like a good framework for

556
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:26.199
this because we had a completely telework environment. The employer

557
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:31.639
wants to change that environment, which requires the employee to

558
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.880
make adjustments in their life. And so the question would be, what,

559
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:42.880
then adjustment does the employer need to make to get

560
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:50.400
the employee to make the adjustment they want. And as

561
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.960
I questioned the employees who filled out the surveys, I

562
00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:58.320
found that a lot of companies expected adjustment on the

563
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:02.920
part of the employee. They didn't expect to provide accommodation

564
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:03.960
for that adjustment.

565
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:05.159
Mm hmmm.

566
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:07.039
Yeah.

567
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.280
And there's just so much here. And the cool thing

568
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:10.800
about it and why I love doing the work that

569
00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:13.599
we do at Gusta now is helping organizations to be

570
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:16.760
able to provide this. It's not rocket science, but it

571
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:20.079
does require an adjustment on the part of companies, and

572
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.760
I couldn't help. As I was preparing for this conversation,

573
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.559
I happened to read Rashad to Baka Walla's weekly newsletter.

574
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.119
He was a previous guest on my podcast and he's brilliant.

575
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.719
He's a futurist. And one of the things that he

576
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:35.360
said in his newsletter, which I would like you to

577
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:39.679
comment on, is he says quote companies will access talent

578
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:43.039
anywhere and not limit their search to geography. The current

579
00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:46.639
backward lurch to fix locations in five days a week work,

580
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:50.079
though most companies already behind the scene excuse most of

581
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:52.519
the top talent from this will be seen as a

582
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:55.639
failure in leadership to reimagine and as a guys to

583
00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:59.199
eliminate workers without severance versus a winning future strategy.

584
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:07.440
That's absolutely spot on. Wall Street is recognizing that a

585
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.880
lot of these return to office strategies are cost cutting

586
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:22.519
in disguise. Some companies that I know made bold statements

587
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.320
that not only were they doing five day return to office,

588
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:29.320
but it had to be in certain cities, only to

589
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:33.000
realize that fifty other companies wanted to be in the

590
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:40.639
same city, say Dallas, and they couldn't hire the skill

591
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:47.119
sets they needed in something really popular like cybersecurity, and

592
00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:50.880
they had to revise their strategy. And go to a

593
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.480
completely different state that they hadn't planned to be in

594
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:57.079
in order to get the skill sets. And so you

595
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:01.440
know what your friend has has pointed out there is

596
00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:06.760
we do need to be able to recruit from just

597
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:12.599
about anywhere in a market where skill sets are hard

598
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:17.360
to find. The company I worked for announced five day

599
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:23.840
hard rto no choice. Just yesterday they've posted they can't

600
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:28.000
get Spanish speaking call center reps. So in San Antonio,

601
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:33.679
if you're bilingual, they'll now give you a hybrid if

602
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:37.559
you can speak both languages. So there's going to have

603
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:40.920
to be flexibility in order for them to get the

604
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:43.039
people they need with certain skill sets.

605
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:47.960
Yeah, yeah, Well, let's finish this conversation by talking about

606
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.000
what companies can do to make this work for both

607
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:53.000
them and their interests as well as their employees. And

608
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:54.559
one of the things that one of the themes that

609
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:57.840
you found in your research was that employees desire a

610
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.119
better work setting when they are as to return to

611
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:03.039
the office. So what is that better work setting for them?

612
00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:09.039
What does that look like? They want having desks, maybe

613
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:12.119
a good place to start.

614
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:17.320
Good place to start, they would like parking, okay, fair,

615
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:20.039
And this is you know This is interesting. A lot

616
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:25.480
of the downtown businesses sold off parking, garages and workspace

617
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:30.320
during the pandemic because they almost announced were never going back,

618
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:33.239
so it made sense to get rid of space you

619
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:36.599
weren't using. It helped the bottom line. Then they decided

620
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:40.880
to go back, but they didn't count the employee to

621
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:47.280
seat ratio, or they assumed they could make everybody come back,

622
00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:50.440
but there would still be a number of people off

623
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:56.400
every day, similar to the flexible workspace percentages. But that's

624
00:39:56.480 --> 00:40:00.199
not true if you're having everyone come back. And what

625
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.320
they ended up with was people fighting over parking places,

626
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:07.840
fighting over desks, Teams couldn't sit together. Well, that's not

627
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:11.800
going to get you collaboration right. Some of these office

628
00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:18.679
buildings are frankly old. Yeah, nineteen seventies, you know, not updated,

629
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.960
And maybe people put up with that in twenty nineteen

630
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:28.360
because we didn't know better. But when you upgraded your

631
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:32.039
own office space at home, and your kitchen was around

632
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:34.679
the corner and you could eat what you wanted for lunch,

633
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:40.840
and now you're suddenly asked to go where the facilities

634
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.079
aren't as good. You can't get a desk, you can't

635
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:48.000
have three monitors, if that's what you had at home,

636
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:52.360
Employees resent that and they're like, if you're going to

637
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.599
have me fight traffic to get here, I want something

638
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:57.679
at least as good as I had on my home desk.

639
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:01.280
A natural light, right, the ability to be able to

640
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:04.960
get out and move, and just having, as you alluded

641
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.239
to earlier, some beauty in your environment. I have a

642
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:12.920
calling Marissa Hale who helps design beautiful workplaces like esthetically

643
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.880
pleasing and workplaces that are designed to enhance well being

644
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:20.840
in connection, and that goes so far right, so that

645
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:24.400
difference and the improved work setting. So that was definitely

646
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:26.960
one of your findings. Another one that you found one

647
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:29.800
of your other findings was that employees desire growth opportunities.

648
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:31.559
When they are asked to come back to work in

649
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:32.400
the office full.

650
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:37.679
Time, they do not want to feel like it's a

651
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:41.079
layoff in disguise and that all coming in is doing

652
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:45.199
is maybe preventing them being on the next list. They

653
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:48.880
want to know that it's a chance at growth that

654
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:51.800
they can get the next promotion, that you're going to

655
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:57.599
enhance their skill set, not just count how many hours

656
00:41:57.679 --> 00:41:58.400
they sit there.

657
00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:03.320
The atrocious waste of a human life to count their

658
00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:04.400
hours that they sit there.

659
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.639
Oh my gosh, right, please, you know, they really want

660
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.119
you to invest in them, like teach me new skills,

661
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.639
help me grow and learn, give me chances for public

662
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:20.880
speaking and mentoring and things that help me grow as

663
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:22.800
a person. If I'm going to bother to be here.

664
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:29.719
And I think that's really a pretty reasonable request. Yeah,

665
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:30.800
I do too.

666
00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:35.639
We've had other conversations here and it's certainly I've been

667
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:37.719
involved in enough discussions and the work that I'm doing

668
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:40.000
too to help companies. But part of the idea that

669
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.480
I think is really important for companies to get their

670
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:44.719
heads around and for leaders to understand, is that you

671
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.639
do have to earn the commute today. You can't just

672
00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:49.840
demand it. You have to earn that commute. And so

673
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:53.280
part of what I've seen, and I'd love for you

674
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:54.599
to come out of this because I know you've said

675
00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:57.159
some of this stuff in your research too. You know,

676
00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:00.199
the idea providing experiential learning, So when people are coming

677
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:04.880
into the office, create something, create an event that allows

678
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.400
them to learn together, something that is like, wow, this

679
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:09.480
is kind of special, this is different, and this is

680
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:13.440
worth me getting here to the office for connecting the team,

681
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:16.719
even over non work events to help strengthen those relationships

682
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.320
and if you're going to do like some joint volunteering

683
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:23.280
together or something in teams, so that whole idea of

684
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:25.360
earning the commute. So if you could speak a bit

685
00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:28.480
more about what you've learned about what companies can do

686
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:32.039
to really make this worthwhile for their team.

687
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:39.400
Right, you know, it's simple things like getting leadership to

688
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:44.199
sponsor the book club for the new employees where they

689
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:47.360
sit around and they hear your perspective on the book,

690
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:52.559
as well as get to give theirs leaders who take

691
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:56.239
thirty minutes to come in and talk about their career

692
00:43:56.719 --> 00:44:01.760
and what experience has taught them the most and why

693
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:05.119
you should take that lateral job movement even though it

694
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:10.119
doesn't look like career growth. Those things are immensely helpful

695
00:44:11.079 --> 00:44:14.039
to the new employees set, and they don't get that

696
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:17.639
over a teams meeting. They get it because you grab

697
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:19.480
a cup of coffee and you go sit with a

698
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:28.920
group of them. But that takes intentional involvement and they

699
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:34.880
value those things and it doesn't cost the company much,

700
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:41.360
if anything, but a leader's time. People would also value

701
00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:48.559
free parking, which companies can provide if they buy the space,

702
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.880
they would value a discount in the cafeteria given inflation.

703
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:00.239
I think there are little things the companies can do

704
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:05.000
to make it seem like they care without bearing all

705
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:07.760
of the cost, and to make it seem like they

706
00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:13.800
respect the worker and the worker's contribution versus just demand. Yeah.

707
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:18.360
Yeah, what about the idea of providing the food. I mean,

708
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:21.320
I know when I had Adrian court On on the

709
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.079
podcast several years ago. I forget which company she worked for,

710
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:28.000
but part of what they did is they did provide

711
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:30.519
lunch for everybody, and it was a way for people

712
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.639
to break bread together and connect and such. What about

713
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:35.599
that idea of actually providing food.

714
00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:40.119
I think to do that on an occasional basis makes

715
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:43.039
a lot of sense. I don't even know that the

716
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:46.880
Amazons and Googles will continue doing that with the recent

717
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:54.400
legislation that is removing it as a expensable item. Well okay, yeah,

718
00:45:54.679 --> 00:45:58.400
so I don't think we're going to see a big

719
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:03.880
trend where a corporations to do it every day because

720
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:08.960
it's going to be no longer expensible. But it is

721
00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:14.000
the same as training and investment in the work environment

722
00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:19.039
and your employees and camaraderie that to some degree is

723
00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:25.840
worth what you spend on it to get that engagement

724
00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:29.400
between leadership and employees and employee teams.

725
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:30.360
Mm hm.

726
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:33.119
You know, one of the certainly I know you're aware,

727
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:36.559
is one of one of the major concerns that executives have,

728
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:38.719
of course, is the need for upskilling, especially in this

729
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:42.480
age as we're we're embracing AI and automation, and so

730
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.119
it seems to me that if we can provide ongoing

731
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:47.239
a reason you know, for another we sent somebody to

732
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:49.199
come to the office would be if we're going to

733
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:52.280
provide you so with some training or some new ways

734
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:54.840
to be able to level up your skills. I mean,

735
00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:57.239
that seems like would be another good reason to want

736
00:46:57.280 --> 00:46:57.880
to bring people in.

737
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:01.119
A lot of people say, if you want me to

738
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:01.880
come in, feed me?

739
00:47:03.159 --> 00:47:05.400
Yeah, in my mind, if feed my stomach, one of

740
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:06.559
the two, yeah, one of the two.

741
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:08.599
Yeah.

742
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:11.360
Well I I you know, I I am a I'm

743
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:14.079
an organizational psychologist, as you know, Monica, because I believe

744
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.519
in the wonder, the glory, the power of work in

745
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:19.840
our lives is a place to be able to realize

746
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:21.880
our potential, to be able to make a contribution that

747
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:24.320
we feel good about that, we are proud of as

748
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:27.400
we look back on our lives that we make relationships.

749
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:30.199
I met you through the world of work that so

750
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:30.960
I believe in this.

751
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:32.199
I want this to work.

752
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.079
And for for when we go into this, this whole

753
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:39.400
posture of I command you to come and do this now,

754
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:41.960
we lose that, We lose that that whole idea of

755
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.320
that we're opting into this relationship it is mutually respectful,

756
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.599
mutually rewarding, and so any other thoughts on what else

757
00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:53.079
companies can do to really make this work for everyone.

758
00:47:54.719 --> 00:48:01.320
So I gave this some lot because you had you know,

759
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:03.519
said you kind of wanted to end on that note.

760
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:10.199
And I think we have to realize COVID changed the

761
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:13.199
rules of the game and we don't have to like that,

762
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:19.440
right right, we do have to live with it. And

763
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:27.119
the same old leadership will not get the same results anymore.

764
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:34.920
The same old tired buildings and perks won't get the

765
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.000
same engagement that we used to get. And we are

766
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:44.679
facing a world in which China wants to win the

767
00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:51.320
AI or we don't make all of the products that

768
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:57.320
we need at home anymore. We have to get better

769
00:48:57.400 --> 00:49:04.760
at this. Our economy will not survive, so leaders need

770
00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:07.360
to step up and figure this out.

771
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:10.360
Well, part of what I would say to that, and

772
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:12.360
of course this is part a big part of what

773
00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:14.360
we do at GUSTA now, So I mean, I can't

774
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:17.880
help but not say this, is that it's really fundamental

775
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:21.039
that leaders are upgrading their own operating system, their own

776
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:23.679
capacity to make sense of all this change and chaos,

777
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:28.000
and how they're contributing relating to their employees, and how

778
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.440
they are motivating and inspiring them to come along the

779
00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:34.159
journey with them. And what I'm discovering, what I see

780
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:37.079
is that so many organizations are not investing in that themselves.

781
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:40.119
So the operating engine of the whole organization, that is

782
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:45.880
the executive leadership team itself, isn't elevating into today's times either.

783
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:47.760
And that's a really important place to start.

784
00:49:48.559 --> 00:49:53.880
That's absolutely fundamentally true. We still operate and we can

785
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:57.679
mandate it, and we keep forgetting that at the heart

786
00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:04.079
of any change are these things called people, these usty

787
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.320
things like usky things called people, and you have to

788
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.119
make them want to do it right, right right.

789
00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:15.239
Well, I really appreciate knowing you, and I really I

790
00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:16.880
needed you to come on and share this because I

791
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:20.159
think it's so critical for leaders to understand how this

792
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:23.039
is actually jeopardizing the very success of what they're trying

793
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:27.039
to put forth. So, doctor Monica Mitchell, it's so wonderful

794
00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:29.280
to be able to call you doctor now. Thank you

795
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.400
again for coming back on working on Purpose. I can't

796
00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:33.239
wait to see what you do to help companies elevate

797
00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:35.400
what they're out there doing to help support thirteen.

798
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:37.320
This has been blast, so welcome.

799
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:40.840
Always more to come. Listeners and viewers. You're going to

800
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:42.960
want to learn more about doctor Monica Mitchell and stay

801
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:45.119
connected to her. See what she's doing with her advisory

802
00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:48.159
services that she's offering to small businesses, the research that

803
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:50.400
she has been doing around employee engagement in the era

804
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:52.880
of return to office, and of course AI ethics. The

805
00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:55.400
best place to really connect her, to find find her

806
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:58.800
is on LinkedIn, so you will find her by her

807
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:03.199
full name, So it's Mona Browning Mitchell. So Monica Browning

808
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:07.800
brown I g Mitchell last week. If you missed the

809
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:10.199
live show, you can always catch it VI you recorded podcast.

810
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:12.320
We were on the air with doctor Stephen Post who

811
00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:14.760
found his purpose and passion early in life as an

812
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:18.000
educator in the medical field. We talked about his latest book,

813
00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:21.199
Pure Unlimited Love, Science and the Seven Past to Inner

814
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:24.840
Peace and Today's crazy chaotic times. Helping leaders or any

815
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:27.199
of us for that matter, was exactly in order, and

816
00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:29.880
doctor Post gave us some tremendous insights to his long

817
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:33.199
standing research and practice on the matter. Next week, we'll

818
00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:35.679
be on the air with Pete Barons talking about his

819
00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:39.519
book Into the Fog Leadership Stories from the Edge of Uncertainty.

820
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:42.480
See you then, Let's continue leaning in to discover how

821
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:46.480
to elevate your operating system as a leader, become more inspirational,

822
00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:50.119
and create destination workplaces where legendary business takes place. Let's

823
00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:51.079
work on Purpose.

824
00:51:54.840 --> 00:51:57.440
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

825
00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:01.159
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Release Cortes,

826
00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:04.599
each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a

827
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:09.239
world where business operates conscientiously, Leadership inspires and passion performance,

828
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:12.079
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

829
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:15.920
and purpose They crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.