Camelot or Corporate Mediocrity: Choose Your Leadership Legacy

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability explicitor implies shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, Doctor Elise Cortes.

1:06 Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, a thought leadership platform for creating inspirational leaders and destination Workplaces, which has been brought to you with passion and prides since February of twenty fifteen. Thanksure tuning in again this week. I'm your host, doctor ELISEE. Cortes. If we have not met before and you don't know me, I'm an organizational psychologist, workforce advisor, and management consultant. I am committed to helping leaders and their teams grow into their higher potential, to unite and inspire through purpose, lived values and healthy, vibrant cultures of GUSTO that on least high performance and business results have become a legacy you can be proud of. Let's collaborate. You can learn more about us and how we can work together at gustodeshnow dot com or my personal site at least Coortes dot com. With us today is Gray McDowell, a seasoned consultant helping companies across various industries navigate organizational transformation, change management, talent development, and strategy. He serves as a consulting manager at Capjim and I Invent, where he specializes in accelerating program delivery and driving for organizational change for his clients. He's the author of Crafting a Corporate Camelot where leadership becomes a legend, which will be talking about today. We'll be talking specifically about the promise of the Camelot Principles in today's world of business, some leadership challenges that I think you'll all relate to, and how the Camelot Foundation can strengthen organizational performance and help us create the legacies we crave. Great Joints is from Jacksonville, Florida. A hearty welcome to working on Priscoss Gray.

2:27 Thanks for having me. You're so welcome, As I told you in one of our I'm sure first interactions. I absolutely love the playful nature of your book, its contents and all of it. So before we get into a bit of your background, let's just open with the promise and why are we celebrating King Arthur and Camelot. Well, I think the King Arthur and Camelot tale is timeless, and that's what first drew me to this particular allegory. I can't even really my finger on whether it was a podcast or an article that I read that really connected the dots for me, But as I started to go down that rabbical everything just kind of clicked, and I think whether you're living in medieval England or present day United States, you're struggling in some organizations, some team dynamic, to find your place and to hopefully inspire others.

3:30 I so appreciate that, And of course you know, you and I both know because of the work that we do, the power of story. So being able to elevate these possibilities of our leadership and organizations through relating to the story of Camelot is just part of what makes it so so enticing and compelling. And I love how you situate that, you know, the symbolism of Camelot is so there for us. It represents a timeless ideal, a utopian society built upon ethical leadership, honorable value is purposeful quests, and an unwearying belief in the power of unity and collaboration. Sounds like a good organization to me. Same here, same here, And I think that's another reason why I thought it made such a great allegory for leadership in organizational change. Because most people, not just within our country but globally know the story, whether it's the original text or one of the many TV shows or movies or adaptations that have taken place. I think we can all connect the dobts and we have a general sense of what we're talking about. And I think it's also unique because it's one of those timeless stories where it really it takes you through an entire journey of somebody's life from that nobody who pulled a sword out of a stone, who became king, had to really pull together his knights of their reun table, build a kingdom

5:02 and then faced real challenge and real adversity up until the point of you know, he lost his kingdom. He didn't have a succession plan. There really wasn't the day after, and I think that that gives us pause, but it also lets us know that hey, even if King Arthur couldn't figure it out, we shouldn't. It's great to have ambition and goals, but we shouldn't beat ourselves up if we some look along the. Way right and we will stumble along the way. That's the nature of today's world for sure. This is why we need to help and you know, a hand up. So I wanted to talk a little bit about your background and just what you've been doing, because just your book alone is incredibly compelling, but then you have all these years of helping develop other organizations and help them transform. So, you know, if you could say a little bit about your backgrounds so people understand what you've done.

5:50 But why this. Area, I mean, why not you know, I don't know architecture, accounting, you know why this particular field. Well, it's funny you mentioned architecture, and because at one point I was an architecture major in college. Now and I became a business major, And the first few years after college I did real estate comiens. First in the private sector, real estate appraisal work. I was living in Houston at the time, wasn't very good at it, and I thought, well, maybe if I moved into the public sector. So I went to go work for the well at the time, the Department of Defense the Navy as a civilian, and that really didn't inspire me either. I kind of fell back into human resources, training development, really fell in love with it, so got my masters, began a career in corporate learning and development L and D, and then eventually just clicked with this more niche field of change management.

6:52 And I've been doing that six or seven years. I'll still do training and development as part of a through organizational or transformational change initiative. But it just it. I'm passionate about it. I don't mind this past weekend. I spent almost the entire week weeken catching up on a new project. And although yes, it's work, work is work, I didn't feel like I was wasting my time, that I wasn't spending my time doing something more value. Add it fed my soul as well as my bank account. So I think if you can find that in life and not make yourself sick and not make yourself crazy, I think you're doing pretty good.

7:39 I would agree. That's what I'm out to help more and more people in organizations do as well, So find that spot. So what I find so interesting and reading your book, of course, as I told it before we got on it, there's nothing in your book that I don't completely align with. There's nothing in it that doesn't I don't completely say yes, I agree with that. And yet so many organizations are foundering and they don't understand why and there and maybe don't even realize the extend to which they're floundering or they're not getting the results that they want. So one of the things I wanted you to speak to from your book and your own experience is just why so many organizations tend to fail in their quest to realize their initiatives, to to to achieve the results they're trying to achieve. There's just a few things that I thought were pretty interesting that kind of distilled into whatever it was a handful of things.

8:25 I think for me, it always it always comes back to authenticity and adaptability. And within the book, I'm constantly drawing. Parallels. Again, you'll notice in the book that. I'm giving a lot of props, a lot of credit to the thought leaders that have come before me. That I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, and I recognize that, and absolutely this is this is really a phrase to some of my favorite thought leaders in the space. But I think far too often we lose our north star, if we had one to begin with. I think we feel like growing in an organization. Again, whatever industry you're in, whatever sector you're in, we go through these life changes.

9:17 You're adolescent, or you're a teenager, or you're a young adult. When you're an organization, you're a new hire, you're a learner. Then okay, maybe you're a lynch pin of the organization. You're not new, but you're also not one of the senior leaders are you're leading, you're steering the ship, and you feel like you're taking off one pat and putting the next one on instead of understanding that to be truly successful, to be value added, and to fill truly at home and what you're doing and where you're at, you really have to balance. You have to be a learner from day one. To the c suite. You have to be a. Leader from day one doing the little things, small stuff to eventually be a director, a vice president, a president, a CEO. And then you also have to remember that whether you are new or whether you're established, you have impact.

10:17 You have impact to make the organization more successful or make it toxic. So you have that ability to. To be an author or to be a Mordred. I so appreciate that. And there are so many things. You have such a beautiful way throughout your book of really throwing through a lot of the major concepts that you sort of reinforce in different ways. Again and to the note of why so many organizations fail to realize their initiatives, one of the things that I thought was so interesting and that I find too in my work is that you say it oftentimes it boils down to that they're they're they're not there's a lack of authentic leadership, which is what you said before, that genuine collaboration and a clear compelling purpose that really unites people around a cause.

11:04 And so what we're seeing, what you see you say in results, is that people do say there's an effective leadership here, there's very poor communication, they feel disconnected from the organization's mission. And these things are. All things that a leader can really really address and I know and you do that beautifully in your book. So I wanted to situate those things as well, because that's very crisp. It's easy to get your head around those things. If you can get some of those things right, wow, you can do a lot to elevate your cause. So let's talk a little bit about some of the foundational pillars of Camelot again. It was just delightful. I always, you know, eleven years hosting this podcast, Gray, I've been delighted and learned a lot about how really good books are organized, and yours is one of those that's extremely well organized and builds on itself. And so I love the idea that you situate, you know, some foundational pillars that include things like chivalry, inclusive leadership, and mentorship, which you tell talk about throughout your book. So let's talk about the idea of chivalry and how that shows up in today's world, because it sounds very archaic and old fashioned, and you almost understand that it really isn't either of those things.

12:13 Well, again, thank you for the kind words. I hope my head doesn't get too big too. I mean the screen is only so so palitied, but I appreciate that. I broke the book into three sections. The foundation of came lot what we're going to talk about now, the challenges of leadership, and then building your corporate came a lot. And in the first section, to your point, we talk about the code of chivalry first, and then the roundtable mentorship and the quest. But really focusing on the code of chivalry. I think it's important again wearing multiple hats. You're the learner, the leader of the lynchpin. You really have to understand that when you join an organization, when you're part of the team, there are core value use there's an ethos, there's a mission vision, whether it's a good one, whether it's been updated, whether it's lived. It's there so it's understanding. As a lynchpin, you have to find a way to coexist in that culture, in that ecosystem.

13:16 But you also have to be true to yourself. So as a learner, you have to know, even if you're brand new to the world of work, you have to know what your boundaries are. You have to know what are your red lines or your lines in the sand. And as a leader, you have to be willing to speak up and do the right thing, even if it could be potentially adverse to your reputation in terms of you know, this person is a good person or this person is a strong professional, but you don't want to let the intimidation of power dissuade you from doing the right thing, from being ethical, from treating people respectfully. All that's extremely important because thinking that you.

14:09 Know you can you can. Turn a blind eye on a few things today to fight another day. You know, you don't want to jeopardize your position. You feel like, Okay, well, I'm in a position of leadership. I have so much authority. I'm going to let things slide. I'm not going to die on that bill so that I can come back tomorrow, because if I'm gone or if you know, the bullseyes on me, My team will suffer, the organization will suffer. You really can't look like that because it's a slippery slope and everybody's watching you. And if you do have authority, people are going to model your behavior. Yeah, and you you you point out some you know, some strong companies that you know have managed to be able to navigate that well over the years, like Microsoft, Patagony and Self and then you talk about how just numerically they regularly outperform their less principled peers. And then of course we can look to some examples where you know, where that slippery slope got, you know, steeper and steeper, and the momentum built and built, and you know those that didn't end well of course, like the Wells Fargo fake account scandal, the Volkswagen emission scandal. Boy, you know, being at the helm of those companies when that stuff goes down, who you know, that's tough.

15:30 Yeah. In some organizations like Wells Fargo and Volkswagen, they're able to make catastrophic errors in judgment and bounce back. Now in some cases they're still having to dig themselves out of halls reputationally financially both others, Like in Ron Arthur Anderson, the list goes on, they're not able to bounce back, So again not to kind of you know, skim to the end of the book talking about. Things like. The fall of Camelot and trying to resurrect your kingdom having learned from some. Of your errors.

16:11 The point is that no matter how hard you try, there's going to be mistakes. But often if you do the right thing, or if you establish a code of chivalry or a code of ethics or principles the organization yourself, how you manage your team, chances are you're going to be better equipped to handle those issues, those ethical dilemmas. There's crises and bounce back. It's not a guarantee, but it's definitely going to put you in a little bit better position. I think one of the reasons why Boltsweg was able to bounce back is because although they did some shady things on the whole, they're a pretty well run organizations, So you do have a little bit of grace to come back for something even that consequential.

16:57 You know, this is really really critical things we're talking about. Let's scrunt our first break and let our listeners and viewers kind of think a little bit about the promise of King Arthur and Camelot for themselves in their leadership. I'm your host, doctor Relie Cortes. We were on the air with the Gray McDowell, a seasoned consultant helping companies across various industries to navigate organizational transformation, change management, talent development, and strategy. We've been talking about and getting into some of the principles of Camelot. We will continue those principles as well as getting in some of the main major challenges of leadership. After the break, we'll be right back.

17:44 Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes to reach our program today, or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise A Lise at Eliscortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

18:35 Thanks staying with us, and welcome back to Working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I am dedicated to help them create a world where organizations thrive because there are people thrive and they're led by inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness. And we do business at Betters the World. I keep researching and writing my own books, so one of my latest came out called The Great Revitalization, How activating meaning and purpose can radically in liven your business, and I wrote it to help leaders understand today's workforce. They want in need to give you their best and want to stick around. And then I give you twenty two best practices to equip you with your organization and your culture to provide that for them. You can find my books on Amazon or my personal site at least quretest dot com if you are just now joining us. My guest is Gray McDowell.

19:15 He's the author of Crafting a Corporate Camelot where leadership becomes legend. So we talked about we talked about the first one of the first pillars of Camelot, that being chivalry. I wanted to talk next about the idea of the iconic roundtable, and that really speaks to King Arthur's inclusive leadership, which I think many many leaders are not. I don't think they understand the draw and the beauty, the promise and strength of that. So let's talk about that one. Yeah, this one's really important. As my first book, it took me a little while to be satisfied with the manuscript, to actually work up the confidence and find a publisher. So when I started this it was a couple of years ago. So as you read the book, I think it does age very well, some of the example, some of the cases. But I think the topic of inclusive leadership in terms of the roundtable, really carries more weight now actually than when I first started writing about it. I think a lot of leaders, a lot of people, professionals in general, will make the mistake of thinking inclusivity has to do with metrics, will have to do with Okay, as long as I'm checking a box, as long as I'm fulfilling a quota in terms of you know, whatever, measurement that you want to equate in the circumstance. But I think at the end of the day, inclusivity means including people within your roundtable,

20:46 within your team, within your organization that make your kingdom thrive, make the whole. Much more substantial. So I think when it comes to talent acquisition, are promoting from within. We want to identify people that aren't necessarily the perfect fit from a technical competent standpoint. Are because we went to the same school, we have a lot of the same friends, maybe we were from the same town, so we're probably going to think the same way. But we want to make sure that we're complimenting one another. And it's not just. Enough to give these people a seat at the table and say, Okay, we're going to have an inclusive workforce, we're going to have an inclusive word of directors or c suite or leadership team, but you actually have to give them voice and give them agency, and you have to respect their opinions, even when on face value those opinions conflict with your own and may actually rub you the wrong way and offend some of those uh, some of those chivalra codes that you may have right your values and believes because again, if you put, if you keep that learner hat on your learning, not just about the organization and other people, but about yourself, you've got to continue to flex and to stretch beyond that comfort zone.

22:11 And one of the things that I really implied that you have written about throughout your book. In order to really pull off the idea and get the benefits of that inclusive leadership, you have to establish and constantly monitor for psychological safety. And people hear that phrase and I think it sounds a little too academic. So let's talk more about what is psychological safety and how can we ensure that we have it in our organizations. Yeah, and really, the expert, or I would say, the individual that's most known for this as Amy Edmondson. So if somebody really wants to go down that rabbit hole and learn more about I would say, read her, watch her on YouTube. She's got a lot of great stuff in that space.

22:54 But the way I refer to it in the book is that logical safety isn't necessarily only something that an organization or established authority figures are responsible for cultivating. But each and every one of us needs to be respectful and needs to be mindful of other people's feelings, other people's pain points, pressure points, and adapt accordingly. That doesn't mean walking on eggshells, but that does mean allowing people to say their piece, not monopolizing a conversation, not cultivating a culture or a workplace climate where people feel intimidated to speak up because they think, okay, on these topics or on these issues, this is the way things are.

23:51 We don't want people to disengage from the conversation. We don't want them to disengage from productivity and performance because they don't feel like they can bring their whole selves into the equation. And that's almost worse than them just saying, Okay, well, this is clearly not the place for me, so I'm going to move on. I'm going to leave the organization. That's bad. But what's worse, and we've probably all experienced it, is when somebody is so is so burned, is so feel so diminished, that they recoil and then they become that Mordreid, right, They become a toxic team member, and then they start doubt in ways that maybe they don't they never really thought of themselves. But it's just the situation they're in and now we're on a slippery slope.

24:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah, beautifully said it was. It's so important because I know so many leaders are like, hey, no, it's good, We've got a great environment here. Actually many most organizations have problems somewhere to that end, and that need, that constant need to monitor is so so important to that end. No, that's a great point, and I definitely want to just kind of put a pin in that because with culture, I think you would agree it's so overused but underinvested. And a great way that I've wrapped my head around this concept. When I'm working with organizations and we're talking about culture, don't treat culture like decore, right, Don't treat it like Okay, we're going to decorate for the holidays, or we're going to renovate the house. Treat it like infrastructure.

25:27 Because with the core, you do it once every few years, you changed the layout of the furniture, the branding, your website, you're done. That's culture infrastructure. You have got to maintain constantly so that the bridge doesn't collapse when things start to get a little dicey. Indeed, completely align with that for sure. Now one of the other pillars that I think you do an exceptional job in your book. Really, I would say, in a way that really stands out among other works that I've seen as well, is you talk about the importance of mentorship and the concept of organizational quests. I think that what you talk about there Gray really distinguishes that. Boy, if organizations did a fraction of what you put forth in your book, they would be so much better for it.

26:18 So let's talk a little bit about how purpose driven missions inspire, challenge, and ultimately transform employees, and how that mentorship really makes a difference along the way. So I knew I. Wanted to talk about mentorship in this book, but I didn't necessarily want to go down the same path that a lot of my mentors or a lot of the people that have inspired me and my career have gone. I wanted to take a different tactic. So we think about the Arthurian ideal of mentorship. We think about Merlin mentoring author or author as an older king mentoring his younger knights. But at the end of the day, the best teams.

27:00 When we think about team, what comes to mind a sports team, right, a military unit. Folks that you know didn't necessarily choose who they were going to form this team with, but they were drafted or recruited and they were pulled together different personalities, right, and they've had to come together, adapt and survive and thrive. And so for the whole mentorship and the quest, I think that the best teams, the best organizations thrive when they have something that they're fighting for. It's easy when you're a sports team or if you're a military unit. You know what your mission is, you know what mission success looks like.

27:46 But when you're an accountant, when you're a consultant, it's a little different. Right, we have to get creative, but it's having these long term goals, but that are backed up by midterm goals, quick successes. So it's important to establish that and if you don't know how to do it, that's when you really need somebody, whether it's your supervisor, your team manager, are someone within the organization that you can count on to be that authority figure to help you see opportunities, not necessarily to upskill yourself from a competent standpoint, but understand how to maintain that ambition and sustain that engagement. Because as you and I both know and probably most of the people watching you're going to have bad days. You're going to have days no matter how much you love your job or love your boss or love your business, where you're just burnt out and you're ready to tap out.

28:47 Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate too that you really put forth the idea of really creating a structured program and that you're monitoring it. You're also cultivating resilience throughout the along the way, and you're celebrating and people are growing and learning, right, not just And that's one of the things that I do when I work with organizations too, is I oftentimes catch myself saying, hang on a minute, the person that I knew a year ago would not have done what. You just did. Let's not let that go by without celebrating that, right, And so therefore it helps bake it in and for them to go, oh, yeah, that's right. So so those are some of the. Things that I got also from your book Grade that I thought were also really useful about creating a really intentional program that supported and guided that people stick to and stand by.

29:33 And that's why the concepts like team of teams is so popular because you're part of something bigger. I think we as humans want to be part of something bigger. That's why you know we have fandom. You know we're fans of a particular entertainer or sports team or college. Is because we want to feel like we're connected with other people and we're in pursuit of something special. Yes, and you know, I just got I read that gray when I was researching meaning and work in identity, first for my PhD and then as a post stock researcher. That was one of the things that I found is a great source of meeting was being feeling like you're part of something bigger than yourself that matter to you.

30:14 So that right there is very very important. Okay, So now what I want to do here is I just want to talk just briefly about a couple of the challenges. You have a whole section related to challenges, and I don't want to spend a whole lot of time on that because I want to move with the legacy as well. But we don't some of the negative stuff. That's important, right, But the two major challenges that you put forth are the idea of betrayal and of course complacency. So I do want to talk specifically about the idea of betrayal and its many forms that that shows up and you do a beautiful job. So let's talk a little bit about how. Would we recognize betrayal in today's modern organization. What does that look like? Yeah, believe it or not. I had the most fun writing this middle section of the book where we talk about betrayal, yes, and the fall of the them.

31:00 A lot, because it's. Spicy, right, I mean, I'm I'm, I'm this, this is this is my reality TV moments. Okay, you think of morgin. We whether it's been us or whether it's somebody we know. We've been part of a team or been part of an organization, a group where there has been. A rotten apple. And I don't know about you, but very few of those rotten apples showed up rotten. They they you know, they started to get a little old on the vine. They were they were neglected. And I think that those mordreds, those toxic team members, that's the seed of contempt, right.

31:41 I think that. Regardless of how an individual becomes a mordred, it's it's it be who's the organization and the manager, the leader to identify early who that individual is. I think there are a. Lot of ways where you can start to see the signs, and we talk about this in the book The Symptoms. You can recognize that when somebody is kind of going down that path and intervene, and most of the time you can salvage the relationship. You can turn it around before the relationships hours too much. In some cases it may be more beneficial for both parties to walk away and if you have adult conversations with each other, then you can end on a good note and maybe down the road that individual can come back. It could be a boomerang employee as we call it. But I think if we let those people faster and we don't deal.

32:43 With it, it's just going to make the situation a lot worse. Not only is that individual going to become more unhappy and more disruptive, but their immediate circle, their team is going to not only fill the burden of having to work with somebody who has a bad attitude, who is unproductive, is an underperformer, but then they're going to feel like, well, why do I need to show up and perform If this person can act this way, behave and perform at such a poor level, and still have a job. It's going to put the. Manager, the leader in a position of lacking credibility within the broader organization. So you've got to mitigate and manage if you can. But if that point has come and gone, you have to I mean it's tough. Nobody wants to fire anybody, but at the end of the day, you've got to make the tough call for the betterment of the team and the organization.

33:40 And I appreciate that you put forth ways to equip the organization and its leaders and managers to be able to deal with that. So you offer things like making sure that you have a finger on the post, paying attention to those subtle shifts and team dynamics. Are people suddenly maybe not talking as much as they used to, are are they not speaking pushing back talk about then they need to create safe channels for that honest employee feedback so we can learn those things before they fester into something really, really awful and negative. And also to train the managers to recognize the subtle toxic behavior signs early so they can be able to do with those things. And then of course you know modeling transparency, psychological safety, respectful communication, all those kinds of things can go a long long way and being able to create and sustain an environment where those kind of behaviors don't get out of control. So one of the many things I love about your book is that you explain the opportunity, then you provide us all kinds of ways to equip us to be able to deal with these things.

34:40 The one thing that has always driven me crazy as a consultant and as somebody that was part of an organization as their learning and development, organizational development development specialist or manager is why do we have engagement surveys or pulse surveys and absolutely nothing with the. Feedback right right? Because that happens. If you think it's only you, you're not crazy. This this happens. This is a systemic problem. And having those type of pulses and not doing anything, honestly, is worse than having any feedback. Asking for any feedback, because now you've set the expectation that the standard that Okay, we're going to do something about it. So it becomes even even worse when we don't respond.

35:28 One hundred percent. Okay, let's grab our last break while listeners and viewers think about maybe some of the mordreds in their organization and how they might start recognizing and dealing with them. Let's take our last break. I'm your host, doctor Reli's Cortes, who are on there with Gray McDowell, a seasoned consultant helping companies across various industries navigate organizational transformation, change management, talent development, and strategy. We've been talking about some of the challenges that organizations face as well as some of the pillars that we can build on. We're going to talk about one more challenge after the break that is very, very and immediate. Then we're going to get into how you can build your own corporate camelot and really create a legacy that you can be proud of. We'll be right back.

36:23 Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to a lease A Lisee at Eliscortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

37:15 Interesting with us and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes. As you know by now, this program is dedicated to empowering and inspiring you along your journey to realize more of your potential. You want to learn about how we can work together and how the Gusto Now Academy supports learning and development for leaders and individuals. Make your way to Gusto dashnow dot com and then go to the training tab to find the academy if you are just joining us. My guest is Gray McDowell. He's the author of Crafting a Corporate Camelot where Leadership becomes Legend. So we would be or miss if we did not talk about one of the other major major leadership difficulties that I unfortunately know that so many organizations suffer from it because it's just part of being a human and trying to get by in today's world, and that leadership challenge is this little thing called complacence.

38:00 See talk about that. I think it's. I think it's easy to believe that success is a fixed point on the map, that if we've achieved a certain position or rank, if we earn a certain income salary bonus, that if our house is big enough, if our car is fast enough, we've made it. And I think that that type of thinking, which is very human, is able to flourish in an organizational setting. We'll list on our laurels, we'll convince ourselves that we no longer have to improve ourselves, our organization, our products, our services, our customer experience.

38:57 But we just have to kind of keep doing. What we're doing, being who were being, and everything will continue to work out in our benefit. And that's just not how life works. Everything's in motion, life's time. We're all moving forward, and once we kind of find ourselves in a rut, life will pass us by. And I think some of the best organizations have been the ones that have fallen the hardest, because it just seems so unbelievable that they too could fail. I mean, if you and I went back to nineteen ninety nine and told our younger selves that, you know, Blockbuster, that our kids today wouldn't even know what Blockbuster was, right, it would be like, get what are you talking about. So many organizations just for whatever reason, they all to kind of keep up with the ambition with the energy of their competitors and found themselves on the wrong side of legacy.

40:13 Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think what I just want to reinforce on that. And I know that this is exhausting for leaders, And this is where our compassion comes in for you, is it's just so important to keep that finger on the pulse and keep striving, keep reaching, keep you know, sharpening the saw if you will. And it's just it's just that's the world we live in today. And I know that's hard. That's why there's people to help you, right, That's why we're here to support too. But it's just so important that complacency piece, you know, across our whole life is such an important thing to be on the lookout for. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about it. We won't have a whole lot of time to get through a lot, but that's why, ladies and gentlemen, you just need to read the book. It's just chock and full of all kinds of things for you to build your own corporate camelot. But I do want to go into a little bit of a discussion here, Gray on just that building your corporate camelot, and you have a whole chap you're on the stone in your sword, which is not a concept that I'm really super familiar with, but I do want to talk a little bit about what you mean by that, especially when it comes to building your corporate camelot.

41:12 Yeah, so depending on the version of the Arthurian legend that you think of when we talked about camelot, it wasn't just anybody that could pull the sword es caliber out of a stone. For most most adaptations, it was a young poor kid, so not the strongest, not the noblest, but it was because of who he was, what was inside of him. And I think that goes back to, you know, what makes somebody an authentic leader and why I really respect the concept of authentic leadership. We are who we are, that we shouldn't try to be.

41:57 If you admire somebody, lie Jeff Bezos, right, you shouldn't necessarily try to do things exactly like Jeff Bezos. You can kind of take bits and pieces that have made him successful and learn from that and take those tools and put them in your toolbox. But you're not Jeff Bezos, and you're probably not going to be Jeff Bezos. The point is you have to find ways to uncover your natural talents identify how you want to round those talents out by learning from others, reading, taking classes, getting the experience, and making yourself more successful. And authentic leadership really does kind.

42:41 Of dovetail with adaptive. Leadership because how you lead in one scenario in one instance may be very different than you lead in the other. So the authenticity and the adaptability go hand in hand because the best leaders, when we think of the very best, are able to persevere in crisis as well as know how to win when they're on top. Yeah, there's just so much there. You have a whole section in your book that I you know, as you know, I take copious notes as part of the way I do my research, so I can capture the page arm everything else. But you have a whole section on building and a culture of excellence, which we don't really have the time to talk about, but I just wanted to showcase for our listeners and viewers. That is gold in there. Great, it's gold. What I do want to do next, though, is I want to finish the conversation and devote the rest of the conversation to the idea of really building that legacy. And you talk about when you think about as a leader, how do I want to build a legacy that I'm really proud of us that stands the test of time.

43:50 So let's talk about that. How can leaders really create something that endures? I think you first have to realize would I think most of us really struggle with And that's what success looks like in the near term, in the midterm, and the long term. Who do we want to be when we grow up? What kind of leader do we want to be? Again? What kind of team member? What kind of family person do you want to be? And I think that writing down what that what those characteristics are is very hard and it's not sexy, but I think it helps you to really visualize and helps you structure what you need to do to get there. I think anytime that we start to craft what our future selves look like, if we're leading an organization, how are we going to leave it? Who's going to be our successor where do we want this organization to go once we leave.

45:03 If you're starting out, do you want to stay within the same organization your entire career, and if so, which path do you want to take? Or if you want to move around and eventually end up in a particular role or have a set of responsibilities that will fulfill you and really make you feel like you've arrived, that you achieved what you set up to achieve. And then be flexible because what you want at twenty five, I'm pretty sure is going to be different than what you want at fifty. So you need to revisit those because your legacy evolves as you grow and develop. But you don't want to burn bridges. You don't want to alienate people.

45:45 You don't want to step on the people that, if they're not helping you today, can certainly help you or possibly hinder you tomorrow if you leave them with a bad taste in their mouth. So it's strategic, but I think it's essential ensuring that not only you're moving in the right direction, but you're having a good time along the way, because isn't that the secret sauce of life? Absolutely and I thought that some of the things you offer to us to really help that along were really powerful. You talk about investing in strategic innovation, Boy if asn't in a great way to be able to create something beyond yourself. And then also you talk about you're prioritizing talent development as legacy building. One of the things I learned in my research and in my work with what I consider to be great leaders is they're focused on how many careers can I help create? Right, And so I think that's really an important point. And then the other thing that you talk about that I think is really really important. There are several things ship like I don't know seven or so points, but integrating environmental and social responsibility into what you're doing, because that helps unite the team and the greater community around what you're doing and connect selves to you and being part of something big or so so many things that you offer to us that help us really create that legacy that we can be proud of that endures, that really matters.

47:09 Yeah, once we step outside of these buzzwords and some of these hot topics and realize what what's the meat on the bone, what is the intention? What is the real meaning behind things like sustainability and inclusivity, and we realize it's respecting others, it's doing the right thing. It's doesn't mean that you're sacrificing your success or you're not not pursuing greatness whatever you measure greatness. But it's realizing that you're never going to do it by yourself. There's not one person alive today, have been alive in the past, or will be in the future, that have become successful or have failed on their own. We're symbiotic. It's just the nature of who we are. So realizing that there's that relationship ecosystem that you have to manage and it's not a one off. It's not screen cleaning. You have to do it every day, every week. You have to manage those relationships. You have to learn. Again, it goes back to the three hats. Every day, what are you learning?

48:17 How are you leading? It can be small things. And then what are you doing to give back? You know, if you're a cog in the wheel, right, if you're just another cog in the machine in the organization, well, how are you making other people's lives better? How are you giving back to the company. If you're a titan of industry. How are you giving back to your community, your country, the planet. These things all ripple, and whether you see those benefits today are not, they really do matter, and they really do determine what your legacy is going to be remembered as. What a powerful way to finish. Gray, I am so happy to know you, to learn from you, to be inspired by you, to share with my listeners across the globe who are here to learn about their own leadership and how to be able to create that kind of a legacy. Thank you for being you, bringing the book into fruition and coming.

49:11 And working on purpose. Thank you for having me listeners and viewers you were going to learn more about Gray McDowell, the work he does helping to transform leaders and companies, and his new book, Crafting a Corporate Camelot where leadership becomes legend. A couple of things you can do. Find you on LinkedIn, for sure, that's one of the best ways. He has a very robust portfolio and he does respond very well there. So his full name is William Gray McDowell and mcdowall's McDow e L L So William Gray mcdowells. How you find him on LinkedIn. He does have a Medium account and how do you get there? Again? Gray, where's the Medium account? What's the address there? So it's going to be at W dot Gray d r A y dot McDowell awesome.

49:56 And last week, if you missed a live show, you can always catch via recorded podcast. We were on with Ryan Gotfredson, a leadership development consultant, talking about his book The Elevated Leader, leveling up your Leadership through Vertical Development. Next weekly on there with doctor Stephen Post talking about his book Pure Unlimited Love, Science and the Seven Past to Inner Peace. See you then, together, let's lean in and learn how to create destination workplaces where people thrive while doing business in a way that betters the world. Let's work on Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W four CY. Together, we'll create a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance, and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.