Responsible Innovation that Creates Value on Purpose

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W FOURCY Radio. What's working on
Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder

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the answer to this question. People
ache for meaning and purpose at work,

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to contribute their talents passionately and know
their lives really matter. They crave being

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part of an organization that inspires them
and helps them grow into realizing their highest

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potential. Business can be such a
force for good in the world, elevating

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humanity. In our program, we
provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in

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this world we all want Working on
Purpose. Now here's your host, Doctor

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Relise Cortes. Welcome back to the
Working and Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning

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in again this week. Great to
have you. This show has been on

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air and brought to you with passion
and pride since February of twenty fifteen.

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I'm your host, Doc Durlies Cortes. If you don't know, mean we've

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not met yet before. I'm an
organizational psychologist and local therapist, management consultant,

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speaker and author. My team and
I at Gusto now help companies to

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enliven and fortify their operations by articulating
their purpose and building inspirational leaders and cultures

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activated by meeting and purpose to turn
those companies from a flatline EKG to a

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vibrant destination workplace. There people are
intrinsically lilility to perform at their best,

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can grow into their fuller potential,
and are committed to stay and dynamically deliver

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on the company's mission. You can
learn more about us and now we can

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work together at gastodashnow dot com and
at leastcoret test dot com. Now getting

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into today's program we have with us
today Michael Graeber. He's the managing partner

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of Epic Pivot and he speaks and
publishes frequently on innovation, the power of

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purpose in business, and the positive
influence organizations can make up the world.

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He serves on the advisory board of
the Global Institute of Innovation and has been

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a top forty global innovation blogger for
more than five years. He contributes articles

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to inc among other platforms, and
is a contributing author to the Other Side

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of Growth and Innovator's Responsibilities in an
Emerging World. Has also written two other

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interesting books, Going Electric, Tales
of Innovation from Where Rock and Roll was

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Born and Last Real Medicine Show.
He joined it today from Memphis, Tennessee.

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Michael, welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank you, Elese. It's

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wonderful to be with you, and
I want to thank you for also coming

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out. I know you're a little
bit under the weather, so listeners and

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viewers, if you're an occasional snivel
or a cough, that's because he's he's

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a trooper and he's coming on here
and even though he's not quite full one

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hundred percent. So thanks for that, Michael, my pleasure. I apologize

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about any superfluous knowing. I appreciate
it. So let me just pull this

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up. This is one of the
things you've created put into the world,

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the other side of growth. You
know this, As I said before,

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I got on air, Michael.
I just think it's incredibly timely, you

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know, I think the world is
position to be able just to really grab

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this and receive this in the way
that I know you've been putting it out

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there for decades, and so I'm
really grateful that we get to talk about

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this important topic here. It's just
perfect and we met on LinkedIn, and

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I love what you're doing, so
I want to share with my listeners and

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viewers. So let's start first by
just talking a bit about your background and

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how you got working in purpose and
conscious capitalism. That's a path that I

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recognized that we all get there by
different different ways. That's right. It's

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an honor to be with you,
and I'm so glad our paths crossed.

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I'll begin just by saying I never
expected to work in the world of business.

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In fact, I was a little
allergic to it, although both of

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my grandfathers had large organizations, large
businesses, and I grew up going to

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them and were family businesses, so
my family's worked in them as well until

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they sold them off, and then
I was more of the artistic type.

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I have an MFA and poetry and
used to teach at the University of Memphis

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and then also play music. And
so it wasn't until something happened during a

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hiring process at the university when I
realized, oh my gosh, these people

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are backbiting and sniveling and getting very
political, just over schools of thought about

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poetry. These politics are going to
kill me. And so I did something

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that was pretty countercultural. I went
to work at an advertising firm and a

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publishing firm and found out they were, believe it or not, many less

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politics in the world of business in
a healthy culture than in some universities.

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And so I always have considered myself
kind of a spy in the house of

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commerce. To quote Shakespeare. You
know, I'm still had these noble aspirations.

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Things like truth and beauty and meaning
and purpose still mean something to me.

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And I think many of us in
our species, in our culture and

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all over the planet are dying for
a lack of those things. So it

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was by accident and happenstance, let's
put it that way. Oh gosh,

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you know a meaning a work researcher. I can't how many times I've heard

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those exact same words, you're just
over and over again to describe a path,

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and I also get delighted when I
see people come from very very different,

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just diverse and dispersive backgrounds and bring
that view that lens into the world

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of businesses only you can. So
I'm very happy to have you bring beauty

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and meaning and purpose, you know, to the world of business. Thank

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you for that, Michael in advance. That sounds good to me. And

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the other thing about too, that's
quite interesting to me is that you're an

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innovator, you know, you you
think about how to create things, how

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to transform things. And I was
very intrigued by one of the articles that

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you wrote where you quote in cite
Acupole as saying that more than ninety five

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percent of the new products fail each
year. And you want to say that

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this really ought to be a harrowing
statistic that should sound an alarm or one

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that says we approach the conceptualization and
launch of new products in a way that

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just doesn't work, but yet we
keep doing it over and over again.

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That's right, And so I can
talk for a long time here, so

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please cut me off our interject to
question this monologue. But I think it's

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an important grounding for everything I'm going
to say for the remainder of the hour,

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and that is that in really in
the late eighties early nineties, we

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found ourselves in this conundrum. W
we hit the apex of the industrial revolution,

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right, we were able to zero
defect almost everything, and our operational

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excellence, not our cultures, but
in terms of production went sky high,

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right, and so we're able to
produce stuff at a rapid rate at which

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we'd never been able to produce before. And so you hit this conundrum globally.

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And this conundrum is that you had
rising R and D costs, but

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then at the same time you were
getting flat or less returns. Because the

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old model used to be you could
find some clever people and they could buy

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instinct or intuition, figure out a
hole in the market, go and produce

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as quickly as possible, put their
profit margin on it, and push it

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out in the market. But then
when things got almost too much at scale,

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and too much at a global scale, people just started making things,

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not because they had that intuitive sense
of a need in the market, but

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making things gasp, just to make
money, believe or not. And so

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everything was surfeited. There was too
much, There were too many competitors,

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private label came in and just boxed
so many large brands out. I'll give

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an example of that at a minute. And so if we're creating things just

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to make money without figuring out a
real human want, need, desire,

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or a real hole in the marketplace, it's going to end up, you

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know, as part of that ninety
seven percent what I now call bed death

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and beyond, you know, which
is like big lots or something like that,

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you know, one of the closeout
stores, which there's such an aftermarket

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for all this waste, and then
you have to think about the cost of

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all those things, all the externalities
of manufacturing and shipping all this stuff that

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nobody really wanted in the first place. And so smart companies started figuring out

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and this was written about in the
Mackenzie study the Alchemy of Growth. When

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they looked at what firms were doing
that kept rising when so many were just

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falling off of out of existence,
they saw that they were a they were

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making innovation bets in their core,
adjacent and transformative horizons. But then they

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were also using human centered techniques and
using an ethnographic primary market approach, so

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really understanding what people want, how
they use things. Where there are gaps

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and able to create that. So
once we're able to start doing that for

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some of our clients and they're able
to see this revolution, they're able to

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create things that matter and things that
can be copied and things that are protected

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for a while. So it's no
longer a me too race to commoditize everything

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and put everything towards the average.
But they're able to really leap frog in

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future proof their businesses as well by
using some of these human centered techniques.

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My favorite part of doing this work
for more than three hundred organizations is that

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the lights go on in people in
new ways. They understand that they're wired

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for empathy. I'll give you one
example. We talked about it in our

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brief pre call, and this was
a lovely man. He was a chemist.

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He has worked at Merk, at
Bear Sharing, Plow all those places,

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successive owners sim Company and that permission
to tell the story. He worked

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on copper Tone early and created the
SPF, the sunscreen spectrum that we have.

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He's a renowned chemist. Okay,
but we were working on an eggs

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on a platform and I took him. I said, I want to work

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a different way this time. If
it's okay, with you, and he

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was very open minded, open hearted
guy said, sure, so small recruits.

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We started by going three homes right
in our backyard in Memphis of extreme

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exema sufferers whom we had recruited.
We went in their homes. They all

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showed us the clorox, the gallon
of clorox next to their bath that they

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have to put in because they said
that this is quote a living hell,

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and nobody understands, and they feel
isolated from their family, say when they

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go on vacation and they get a
flare up and they have to stay in

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the hotel room when everyone else goes
out at the happiest place on earth.

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And we went back to the car
after the third visit, we had more

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schedule for the next day, and
he started crying. Yeah, I didn't

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know what to do. I was
about thirty five at the time. He

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was a sixty year old man.
And what is it? He said,

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I feel like I've wasted my whole
career. So what do you mean,

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Tom, He said, Well,
before it was always about the science,

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the chemistry, the formulation. But
now I'm on a mission to go help

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people like Susan inside, who's in
there silently suffering right now. And so

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the more you can tether the product, service, the experience to the actual

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people who are going to use them
and apply that heart and apply that empathy,

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the more you're going to hit that
target right and the more you're going

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to be useful. It really creates
a whole wake of goodwill, Oh,

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Michael, And that's why I'm connected
with you, and you can't get away

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from me, because I am a
champion of what you're helping organizations to create

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and what I want to also put
forth for our listeners and viewers to situate

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why this is so important. As
a researcher, I know that increasingly what

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we see is that people are expecting
organizations to do better with themselves, so

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the resources and how they're creating.
So when we know that an organization is

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put in this kind of thought into
how they innovate and market and serve,

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but that already does is it increases
the stickiness and the commitment of their stakeholders,

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including their customers, their employees,
the communities in which they serve.

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So I wanted to situate that because
I know you and I are aligned on

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that in terms of stakeholder capitalistic approach
but just how what do I want to

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say, magnetic that is for organizations
to be able to do that, and

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they then they talk about being able
to do this and to perspective people that

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would come into their fold, and
then the other I can yeah, if

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I can even expound a little face. We worked on all of it was

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Merk Consumer Cares, all of their
product platforms, and we knew the revolution

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was complete when the president of the
Consumer Care division we had quoted posters.

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We took posters of people that we
did all types of interviews, intercept interviews,

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recruited interviews, real people from all
over the world. Right, We

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traveled widely. And when she quoted
the names and stories of some of these

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people, put big posters in all
the offices and she said, this is

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why we're working, this is what
we do. People really felt a sense

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of purpose and meaning. And I'll
say that it not only created that kind

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of goodwill and galvanized the culture and
let people work together in different ways,

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but it also increased the value and
valuation for when they sold to Bear Consumer

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Care. Absolutely, Michael, and
that was a beautiful example to bring that

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home. Thank you very much.
So yeah, so everybody, you know,

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especially when you work for a larger
organization and your work becomes more siloed,

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and it's hard to understand how your
individual contribution contributes to the overall purpose

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of the organization, the mission of
the organization through which it's exercised. When

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you see that kind of thing,
now you understand your direct contribution to it,

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and now you know you individually matter, and that's what everybody wants,

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right very much. Yeah, you
and I also discussed the great Google Aristotle

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project where they you know, they
decoded the factors of high performance teams,

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and everyone quotes psychological safety. It's
become a bit of a cliche and the

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consulting industry, we want psychologological safety. We need leaders to create cultures that

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are psychologically safe, which was the
foremost tentative high performance teams. But I've

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always liked to quote three and four. So three was meaning through our work

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and four was purpose through our organization. So you can't just have that trust,

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the psychological safety without really putting i'll
call it the engine of meaning and

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purpose on it, because that's what
we're hungry for as a species, right,

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and that's what we're warring about because
of the lack of whether we're warring

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in the boardroom or actually warring,
but we just can't agree on these things.

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Well, like I wrote about in
the Great Vitalization, which came out

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in March twenty three, I am
fully convinced, based on my research that

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what happened, part of what happened
during the pandemic was it gave people that

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pause to sit back and really consider
what do I want for my life,

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my work, and what's working?
What AREM I not willing to put up

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with anymore? And I think a
lot of people's sense of and desire for

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a meeting and purpose got radically elevated
during that time. It increased people's hunger

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for that and an insistence on that
in ways that they just were willing to

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let go before. And I of
course champion that it's elevated consciousness. Agree.

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Yeah, And we actually started a
different practice we call it purposeful transformation

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right at that point. So I'll
get a little subjective and personal because it

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all begins with one human here.
I don't know if you want to do

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it after the break or yeah,
let's do it after the break, because

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I want to expound and I definitely
want that to have it. Stue,

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so hold that thought if you would, Michael. Listeners and viewers, you

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just think about what that's going to
be like hearing about purposeful transformation. Let's

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take our first break. I'm your
host, Doctor Release Cortes. We are

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in there with Michael Graeber. He's
the managing partner of Epic Pevot and he

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speaks and publishes frequently on innovation,
the power of purpose and business, and

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the positive influence organizations can make on
the world. We've been talking a bit

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about where his work came from and
why I think his background and art to

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music is so useful and informative to
be able to really take another level after

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the record, get more into this
idea of purposeful transformation. Stay with this

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will be right back. Doctor Elise
Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and
author, she helps companies visioneer for greater

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purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

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performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elisecortes dot com.

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Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is

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working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

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open a conversation with Elise, send
an email to Alise alisee at eliscortes dot

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com. Now back to working on
Purpose. Thanks for stating with us,

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and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes.

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I mentioned the latest book that I
put out in March, The Great

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Revitalization, How Activating Medium Purpose can
radically in liven your business. I wrote

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that for leaders to be able to
help them understand this new playing field that

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we find ourselves in post pandemic here
and it helps you understand what the workforce

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really wants. And then it offers
twenty two best practices to equip you through

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leadership in culture to actually achieve that. You can find it on Amazon Orleascoortes

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dot com if you are just joining
me. My guest is Michael Graber,

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who contributes articles to inc among other
platforms. It is a contributing author to

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the Other Side of Growth and innovator's
responsibilities in an emerging world. He also

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wrote going a life trick tales of
innovation from where rock and Roll was born

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in the Last Real Medicine Show.
Okay, so let's hear about this purposeful

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transformation work. That sounds pretty enticing
to me. You also had a couple

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other things in there too that I
wanted to dig into it. Let's start

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there, okay, and it dovetails
nicely with the great view vitalization. So

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again I'm going to start subjective and
then get into more of a macro view.

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So during the pandemic, I suffered, just like everybody, what I

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called a forced retreat. Right.
We had to be contemplative, We had

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to look inside, We had to
think about things like meaning and purpose and

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realize that what we've been doing may
not be sustainable, you know. And

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then suddenly we were in the midst
of three great crises that thinker Michael Moore

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talked about the crisis of climate climate
change, the crisis of the humanitarian crisis

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with so many refugees afoot more than
ever at the planet and there's going to

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be more now and as well as
climate refugees. And then probably the most

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perplexing, which was the crisis of
truth and meaning, you know, we

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don't have an objective reality that we
agree upon anymore. And how dangerous that

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can be, because any demigogue with
any type of view can just hijack the

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conversation and distort fact and science and
all these things. We've worked so hard,

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and so I went deep inside and
said, well, what can I

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do? You know, I've made
a lot of companies millions and millions of

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dollars by helping them innovate and create
innovation platforms, innovation departments, new products,

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new services, new experiences. So
what you know that's not moved the

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social needle at all, and the
world's only getting worse. You know that

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we're creating more stuff and polluting more
waterways. And I didn't want to be

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a Debbie downer, you know,
I want to fight the good fight.

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So I at the same time,
you know, I fell in love with

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conscious capitalism. I got to know
Raja Sodi a little bit in an interview

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with him, wrote several articles there, and then started talking to clients about

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these things. Simultaneously, two large
clients, a very large research hospital and

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one of the two largest hospitality corporations
in the world, came to us and

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they said, hey, we don't
know how to handle this great resignation,

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and we've got all these transformations that
have failed. Can you use your human

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centered work, but instead of using
an out on the market, use it

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inside our enterprise to figure out where
things broke down and why. So we

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reverse engineered everything and we realized that
in many cases there was never an express

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why. There was never a purpose
or a declaration of a future state of

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what we're changing into. You know, they assume that a technology stack was

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going to save them, and that's
the oldest trope in the world, right

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that do sex makana, Right,
that God in the machine and it's not

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a real thing. And so from
that we then sort of right size them,

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put them back on track, and
we came up with this whole methodology

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of purposeful transformation. But with that
we were able to then take a step

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back and see that the majority of
the change that's needed is not going to

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come from governments or from nonprofits.
God bless them, they've had hundreds of

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years, right, and we've gotten
as far as we've gotten. But it's

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only when the private sector is going
to be a force of good that we're

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going to be able to realize our
potential as a species, because that's where

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the mass of people, the majority
of us, spend the majority of our

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waking hours, and we can no
longer afford to compartmentalize ourselves, as T.

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Sla talked about in the dislocation of
the sensibilities to put on my work

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mask and not have my morals,
my ethics and just have to say this

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to this person, that to that
person, that gamesmanship is dying. That's

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one reason for the great resignation.
People could not fit in that mask anymore.

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Right. They wanted to be real, they wanted to be authentic.

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They want they're hungry for meaning and
purpose, and so we created this whole

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methodology around purposeful transformation. And it's
our thesis that there are be corps and

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there is the conscious capitalism that's really
good for large companies and for others.

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But it's not a one size fits
all. Prescription can be a little bit

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too restrictive, and some people,
some companies in particular, cannot regovern and

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become a B corp. They have
to stay in escorpus cy corp and LLC

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whatever their governance structure may be.
But they can still articulate a purpose align

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both their strategy and their structure to
that purpose and move to more of a

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you know, a stakeholder version of
capitalism instead of a shareholder version of capitalism.

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And we're able then to start working
with companies. Just tell you one

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brief example. We started working with
a plastics container company around the same time

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we had done innovation work for them, we were writing their strategy, but

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then we started just getting wind of
everybody inside of the company felt like they

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had to wear a bag on their
head when they went to cocktail parties.

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They were embarrassed to tell people they
worked at a plastics company right because of

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the plastic backlash, And they said, well, what can we do to

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make people feel better about working here? So, well, you have a

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great culture and people are very honest, but your product's a little toxic.

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What if we come up with what
if we changed that? And what if

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you're a So we came up with
a three ariz in strategy for changing and

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the first would be to help the
CpG clients start to minimize their input of

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plastics, start to really lightweight and
really better palatize, and then ultimately it

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is to be out of plastics completely. You know, it was a ten

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year strategy. They're now all about
four years into it and doing very very

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well and becoming known as the people
who are very innovative around sustainability in the

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CpG space. But they embraced it
very much as a way to move beyond

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their competition, as a way to
strategize and flank other businesses, but more

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importantly because it started to galvanize their
culture and the best and brightest in that

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field wanted to come work at this
company, and it's been amazing And since

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that time they've won some of the
largest accounts from some of the biggest global

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companies, and they're helping a lot
of the CpG companies meet their twenty twenty

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five sustainability goals already and then helping
them find cost effective ways to move outside

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of plastics. Listeners, viewers of
those, if you don't know what CpG

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is, what does that consumer package
goods? Yes, yes, just want

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to make sure that in case you
stuck on them on the acronym there,

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Yeah, thank you, You're welcome
of course. So then I do want

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to since you're talking about kind of
reorienting a company, I think one of

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the best examples that i'm personally aware
of that. You also reference in some

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of your articles is interface the Carpet
Tile Company, and that is such a

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great story. Maybe you want to
touch a little bit on that, because

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they're a great example of really recognizing, oh my gosh, we're plundering the

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planet with these indestructible carpet tiles.
Did one hundred and eighty degree turn on

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how they were making this stuff.
It's such a great story. It is

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a great story, and I think
you hit on the highlights are d But

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they realized that this stuff was going
to be around forever, much longer than

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humans will be on the planet.
And then beyond that that it was very

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toxic and had all kinds of chemicals
that would put things that were not supposed

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to breathe into our direct environments,
both office and home, and so they

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changed the game completely. Nobody believed
that they could do it, and then

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suddenly they became one of the most
popular carpet manufacturers anywhere by doing the right

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thing. So that's what we like
to tell our clients is that if you

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want to hold onto your best and
brightest employees, if you want to outpace

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your competition and truly meaningfully differentiate,
if you want to build a legacy in

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a brand that has that type of
halo, and then most importantly, do

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well by doing good. There's a
great study by Rajasdia that I quote all

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the time that if you move to
this model, we call it purposeful transformation.

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But this emerging model of cap that
the world is calling us all to

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move to, you are going to
outperform your profit only competitors somewhere. Studies

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say between eight x and thirteen x
to one. So I just feel a

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little lonely on the mountaintop prophesizing this
all the time when the data is so

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clear. I don't know why we
can't get over ourselves. You know,

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our typical nineteen fifties Industrial Revolution orientation
of NBA school and how we think about

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business is so ingrained in how we
think about these things and how we make

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decisions, but it can be so
toxic into itself. You know. I

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wish we could just do a great
flush, yeah, and a reset,

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right, reset the curriculum. But
as my favorite psychologist, James Hi Hilman

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says, conversation is consciousness, so
it starts with what we're doing right now.

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That's right. Well, I'll first
let me say, I will stand

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on that mountain with you, Michael. You and I can get up there

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and you know, saying have a
picnic or whatever. But I'm up there

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on the mountain with you too.
And I loved what you wrote in one

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of your articles, which I just
wanted to say it because I think it's

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so beautifully written, and I think
it's really it's a beacon call for those

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people who haven't yet made this turn. But you write business is changing for

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the better. Instead of the sole
goal of making money, it now wants

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to make money while creating significance and
social value. And what I'm seeing,

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and you've been saying it too throughout
this program, is you know, increasingly

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people are expecting that, and organizations
are holding themselves to an account because they

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see some people starting to see that
there really is utility and value and return

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on an investment for this stuff.
It's not just really cool and nice,

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it actually turns a really pretty nice
profit. And you and I both know

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that many increasingly investors are choosing to
invest in purpose led organizations then not because

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they give a better return. Yeah, And so I left out one fact

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about the plastics company, which is
very pragmatic and that is one reason they

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wanted to work with us on this
purposeful transformation is that they had to recapitalize

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their debt. And as they shopped
around their debt, they went to the

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00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:19.039
largest large and the large con traditional
conservative investment banking firms said we'll lend you

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this money, but all money has
strings on it now, and so you're

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going to have to really up your
ESG game, and they decided, hop

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this is a golden opportunity. We
meet so many people that are kind of

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cowering and fighting the ESG movement because
it's something done to them and done to

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their model. But this company,
because they're leaders, they're able to take

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it as a pause and say,
hmm, maybe there's something here. And

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if we take this money, we
don't want to just do the checklist.

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We've got to really bake it inside
our whole engine and start to understand and

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articulate why it's important and getting to
a philosophy of value. Why are we

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creating what we're creating. Because I
can't have all my employees cower at the

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cocktail party being embarrassed of where they
work. You know, I've got to

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give them not just a pr line
but something from the heart that's going to

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attract other people to work here and
attract other people to buy from us.

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So I call this a philosophy of
value that many companies are starting to understand.

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I love it, Michael. Well, just this morning, here's a

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great example on the ESG front.
So every Tuesday I run six miles in

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the cold or the heat, whatever
it is, at six point thirty with

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my friend Charles. And today it's
cold enough and I always bund a way

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00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.640
up. I need lots of layers. And we were talking about headbands,

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00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.279
the ones that go over your ears
especially, and he said, you know,

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I just found a fantastic new headband, And he said I was visiting

406
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:55.160
Philadelphia and one of my nieces had
it. She said I had an extra

407
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:56.440
one, and so I got to
use it and she said, oh it's

408
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.200
double lined, he said, And
then I checked into the company. I'm

409
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.559
sorry, I don't remember the name
of the company, but maybe somebody one

410
00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:06.319
of our listeners and viewers will.
What how do they make those those headbands

411
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:10.839
is they go and get plastic bottles
from the sea, pull them out of

412
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:14.480
the sea, clean the sea,
and then they re they repurpose, make

413
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.519
them into this double layer of a
headband that is incredibly warm and cozy.

414
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:22.039
Now that's where it gets beautiful.
People love that story. They want to

415
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.119
be part of that story, part
of that solution, and that's if they're

416
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.640
going to choose where they're going to
spend their money. That thoughtfulness, that

417
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.839
consideration for the planet. This is
what we're seeing more and more that I

418
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:37.720
know you and I are both compelled
by and we are out prophesizing. Excuse

419
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:42.640
me, pardon it, no worries
you. Why don't you finish that cough?

420
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.920
Let's finish. Let's get our last
break here. You have a nice,

421
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.319
good cough, and we'll come right
back. Okay, I'm your host,

422
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.599
Doctor e Lee's Cortes. We're in
there with Michael Graber, who contributes

423
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.880
articles and other to other such platforms. He's also a contributing author to the

424
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:00.359
Other Side of Growth and Innovator's Responsibilities
in an Emerging World, plus a couple

425
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:06.200
other amazing books. We've been talking
a bit about his whole process of purposeful

426
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:08.920
transformation. After the break will continue
a few more stories and help you better

427
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.119
understand just how this makes sense for
you. See, we'll be right back,

428
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.920
doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant
specializing in meaning and purpose. An

429
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:37.319
inspirational speaker and author, she helps
companies visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders

430
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:43.720
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

431
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:46.559
and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite a lease to

432
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:52.400
speak to your organization, please visit
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk

433
00:32:52.440 --> 00:33:01.000
about how to get your employees working
on purpose. This is working on Purpose

434
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:06.519
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach
our program today or to open a conversation

435
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:12.839
with Elise, send an email to
a lease ALISEE at eliscortes dot com.

436
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:21.680
Now back to working on Purpose.
Thanks for Jane with me and welcome back

437
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:23.680
to working on Purpose. I'm your
host, doctor Relie Cortes. Before we

438
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:27.160
get back on with Michael Hope,
piece better now, I do want to

439
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:31.440
share something interesting that came across my
radar, and that is a conference called

440
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:37.039
the Humanitarian Exchange. It's taking place
on February twentieth, twenty twenty four,

441
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:42.519
and people can join either online or
in person in England. And what's exciting

442
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:45.240
to me about this, and maybe
it's even great for this conversation is it's

443
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:51.160
bringing together purpose driven organizations and individuals
across society that are all that are invited

444
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:54.400
to really help address this humanitarian challenge
we're talking about here. So in the

445
00:33:54.480 --> 00:34:00.119
world of escalating global crisises driven by
conflict and climate like Michael was talking about,

446
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:07.319
this Humanitarian Exchange is bringing together a
million strong people to come together to

447
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:09.719
try to help address some of these
issues. And you are invited to attend.

448
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:15.400
So how do you find information?
Go to Humanitarian Exchange No. E

449
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:21.639
Humanitarian Exchange dot org. If you
want to register. I'm pretty sure it's

450
00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:25.719
free. You can use the HX
dash priority to be able to get at

451
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.400
a little bit of a bigger bump
when you actually register, so I will

452
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:31.360
see you there. This to me
is important to evangelize, so I hope

453
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:36.599
you'll give it some consideration if you
are just joining me. My guest here

454
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.119
is Michael Graeber. He's a managing
partner at Epic Pivot who speaks and publishes

455
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:45.119
frequently on innovation, the power of
purpose in business, and the positive influence

456
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.880
organizations can make in the world.
We've been talking about quite a few interesting

457
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:52.000
examples here, and I want to
be able to finish the segment strong here

458
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:58.079
with maybe some other examples and ideas
that you have to really help organizations move

459
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.880
away from this traditional way of mark
marketing and how do we, you know,

460
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:06.400
own a market to actually serving the
needs and improving the lives of the

461
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:12.000
people that we're trying to help.
Right, so many people Prospects in particular,

462
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:15.960
they act like it's such a revolutionary
premise when I say it, But

463
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:20.559
actually, if you go back to
the roots of business, I'm going to

464
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.159
quote Adam Smith. You know,
he wrote Wealth of Nations, from which

465
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:27.920
we get the invisible hand of capitalism
that's going to come and help take care

466
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:34.320
of everybody. But six months after, eight months afterwards, he published a

467
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:39.400
Theory of Moral Sentiment, which is
a book that's all about how business should

468
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:45.920
take care of community. And I
don't know why that's been summarily rejected.

469
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:52.159
Similarly, in the NBA mindset,
this is a stereotypical kind of caricature.

470
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:57.280
But in the NBA mindset, people
quote Darwin a lot, you know,

471
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.400
Survival of the Fittest, Origin of
species, dog eat dog world. You

472
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:08.719
gotta fight, you gotta do.
But Darwin only said that it's survival of

473
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:14.440
the fittest four times, and he
used the word love with different species more

474
00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:17.360
than four hundred, and most people
don't. And so if you start to

475
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:24.280
measure these things up and not selectively
quote something happened when education was really being

476
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:30.880
standardized right after World War Two,
and almost what I call the Chicago School

477
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.480
of Economics from which we base a
lot of our business theory, were in

478
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:37.760
vogue, and that's became the template
of how we think. But that's not

479
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:44.920
even the roots of how business worked
in community, in society until that point,

480
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:51.039
right, and then that up through
the neoliberal era, right through through

481
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:55.000
Clinton and Bush probably set this.
People think of it as an absolute truth,

482
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:00.159
but it's actually not. It's just
one mental model of reality. Have

483
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:02.039
to question yourself, what kind of
work do you want? What kind of

484
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:06.800
work do you want for your children? What kind of world can work build?

485
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:09.920
Right? How can work be a
force of good or a healthy thing

486
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:16.360
on the planet without externality. It's
when I hear that word externality, it

487
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:22.000
sounds like such a strange, disembodied
concept. But we do have poisoned waterways,

488
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:27.400
right, we do have so much
litter just you mentioned the plastic in

489
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:31.599
the oceans. Ye, who's responsible
for that, you know? And that's

490
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:37.719
those are big questions. Yeah,
let's just hint. It's not the turtles

491
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:43.920
of fish, that's right. But
yet it's now even in the fetuses of

492
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:47.440
many types of creatures, including humans, right, all these microplastics, so

493
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:53.199
it affects us all. And so
when I say that it's not a revolution,

494
00:37:53.599 --> 00:38:00.679
I'm talking about it's a gentle evolution
that's already has many working models from

495
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.440
all the b corps are out there, or the values based businesses that there

496
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:09.440
are many case studies of that outperformed
profit only companies. But my favorite comes

497
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:14.719
from the Bosque region of Spain.
Yes, mindless, yes, yes please.

498
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:21.760
So there was a monk who was
put in charge of one of the

499
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:24.559
most impolished regions of Spain, and
he, you know, he went through

500
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:28.719
a dark night of the soul trying
to figure out what could he do,

501
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:32.000
and he said, I can't think
myself out of this problem. Dear Lord,

502
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:35.519
help me, right and so so
finally he said, well, I've

503
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:40.599
got to help these people enriched their
lives and the lives of everybody around them.

504
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:47.119
So he set up a cooperative keyword
cooperative style of business and started with

505
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:54.079
one enterprise. Now it's grown into
many, many corporations that are doing more

506
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:59.519
than one hundred billion dollars a year. They're still extant, and guess who

507
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:06.880
owns it. Everybody who works there. And for the longest time, the

508
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:09.679
most junior level person, the janitor
or the person on the floor in the

509
00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:15.639
factories only made or they made a
good wage, but the CEO and the

510
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:20.119
sea level only made three x of
what they made. Now it's up to

511
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:25.679
seven x, but still that's exponentially
much less than what we see in this

512
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:30.679
trillionaire you know, multi billionaire culture
that we have these days, and it's

513
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:36.400
a model that we see coming back
in Vogue. One of our clients that

514
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:40.639
we helped with a purposeful transformation actually
switched their ownership. They had many offers

515
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:44.960
to sell there was it was a
family business, they were moving into third

516
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:51.280
generation, and they were private equity
offers because they were doing very well,

517
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.920
and they decided that they wanted to
leave a legacy and that was their philosophy

518
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:59.920
of value, and so they restructured
as an ESOP, you know, employees

519
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.440
the option program. So they did, they cashed out, they did well,

520
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:10.159
but instead of just making a few
multi multi millionaires, they were able

521
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:16.199
to make thousands of hundreds of thousand
airs right well, and everybody prospers.

522
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:22.239
And so these models are already out
there, the cooperative models, the ESOP

523
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:25.360
models, all these other mothers for
wealth creation and wealth equity, and I

524
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:30.039
would just encourage people to explore them. Mm hmm, so good there.

525
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:35.119
I really appreciate the breadth of models
that you've been talking about this in the

526
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:38.960
show, because it helps people really
understand that this isn't as maybe crack pots

527
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:44.639
is they might originally first at first
blush think. And the thing that I

528
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:47.239
keep coming back to, Michael is
that, you know, and I've had

529
00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:52.000
many people on my show talking about
this, the importance of you know,

530
00:40:52.440 --> 00:41:00.280
human leadership and you know being you
know, actually honoring the human person world

531
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:01.880
of work. I just find it
amazing that we were having that conversation in

532
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:05.840
twenty twenty three. And I do
think that the part of the reason that

533
00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.559
we get to have this conversation,
and I'm going to say get is because

534
00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:15.320
we are now in such a world
power by artificial intelligence and technology that we've

535
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:19.079
now recognized as the human race that
this is the one way we can distinguish

536
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:23.440
ourselves and just how important it is
to be able to, as you say,

537
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:29.639
the old method of innovating edits out
humanity, and what you're out to

538
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:32.960
do is really embrace empathy and co
creation in a way that celebrates it.

539
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:38.199
Yeah, even if I'm talking about
innovation, there have been many of our

540
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:43.159
clients who are feared of what AI
is going to do to them. And

541
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:45.679
when I go inside any of these
companies, everyone's scared that there's going to

542
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.119
be massive job cuts. Just before
I got on here, I was looking

543
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.079
at the news and I saw that
one of the big tech companies is thinking

544
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:57.440
about a layoff in sales because AI
is going to be able to figure out

545
00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:00.719
a lot of what their sales strategists
We're going to do. They're talking about

546
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.800
thirty thousand layoffs in one of the
large tech companies. I won't name them.

547
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:10.039
But what's so interesting is that there's
a there's a large study from multiple

548
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:15.800
universities. Upen is the main author, but Yale and others are involved,

549
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:21.760
and it said, with the best
of AI, it always goes to the

550
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:27.719
average of the mean, right,
And so if a company is really going

551
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:31.119
to differentiate keyword here, they're going
to have to call on human cunning,

552
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:38.760
human creativity making these uncommon, un
non average connections that just aren't going to

553
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:43.280
happen with a machine, right,
And and then you're still gonna have to

554
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:46.320
have had the huge make the right
inputs in the machines to get the right

555
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:54.760
outputs. And so we can never
really dismiss our birthright of creativity, of

556
00:42:55.480 --> 00:43:00.880
insight and and outsource that to robo. You know, if you're running a

557
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:06.599
bunch of different tasks to try to
get to some type of new drug,

558
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.400
that's one thing. If you're just
trying one molecule after another or one variation

559
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:13.920
or another, that's a right and
good use for it. But if you're

560
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:17.880
talking about what people really need and
what they want and what they'll bipp put

561
00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:21.840
money down, I don't know if
machines are ever going to be able to

562
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.119
answer that I don't need one thing
that I don't either. By the way,

563
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:30.039
one thing that became very apparent to
me both in my research and just

564
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:36.199
you know, I guess intuitively,
is how much experience became such an important

565
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:42.360
thing after the pandemic. People wanted
quality experiences. If you were going to

566
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:45.199
ask them to come out to do
something or try a service or product.

567
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:50.199
It needed to involve some kind of
a quality experience. If it was just

568
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:52.199
a transaction, they were not going
to be interested in that. And so

569
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:58.280
I think that also speaks to how
we distinguish ourselves from technology. We can

570
00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:02.000
provide those kinds of experiences, this
kind of an emotional connection, that is

571
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:07.000
what people are hungry for. And
so, like you, I want to

572
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.719
assuage people's concerns about AI and technology
taking over the planet in all of their

573
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:15.920
jobs. It does mean that we
have to keep elevating ourselves and keep learning

574
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.360
and growing and reaching, which I
want you to do anyway. But it

575
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:22.440
doesn't mean that you're you have to
worry that you know you're going to be

576
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:28.280
in the unemployment line forever because you
know AI took your job. Yeah yeah,

577
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:36.760
but you were asking about vulnerability and
being human at work. Yeah.

578
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:43.280
I can't imagine anyone expecting to stay
at a job now where they're not allowed

579
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:46.480
to be themselves. And it was
really interesting. I spoke to the Chamber

580
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:52.280
of Commerce in Memphis just a few
months ago. It was an HR meeting.

581
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:55.440
I talked about this emerging model of
work, and all of them raised

582
00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:59.559
their hands and said, well,
we need help. You know, we've

583
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:04.000
got positions, we've got jobs,
and we just can't find the right workforce.

584
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:08.039
The labor force. People don't want
to work. And my response was,

585
00:45:09.400 --> 00:45:14.039
look at your choice of language.
You're still singing out of the nineteenth

586
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:16.760
century song. But people are not
a label force. They're people. You

587
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:21.960
know, do you you need to
change your processes, your language, your

588
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:27.920
experience for touching them, for orienting
them, for persuading them to come work

589
00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:31.480
for you to add value. You
know, it's not the old equation where

590
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:35.719
people just have to have a job. People want to have a life and

591
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:40.039
their identities are tied in their career, and that that duy needs to be

592
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:45.159
retooled massively in hr as. You
know, that's that's the majority of your

593
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:47.920
work, I'm assuming, Yeah,
quite right, that's exactly right. And

594
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:52.360
you know that's what a lot of
it is is gently trying to sometimess not

595
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:57.719
gentle sometimes. Look, you know
what's interesting is some of the marketing that

596
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:01.639
I do for our company is I
look for organizations that have a glass store

597
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:05.760
rating under three to reach out just
to say, hey, you might want

598
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:07.280
to look at something a little bit
different here. You know what I find

599
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:12.159
oftimes when I go to reach out
to them, They're not in business anymore,

600
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:17.800
right, they are not in business
anymore. Wake up call. Okay,

601
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:21.360
So completely agree, you know,
And so sometimes, you know,

602
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:23.719
a lot of what I do is, especially in my speaking, it is

603
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:28.960
a gentle, ideally inspiring wake up
call that says, hey, come with

604
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:30.079
us, this is a better way, this is the new world we live

605
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:34.760
in today. Come with us.
But sometimes it does require the look,

606
00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:37.840
man, you're about to go out
of business here, something's got to change.

607
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.280
Yeah. We love when clients come
to us. And a quote in

608
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:45.000
the psychologists chair already you know there, as they say in the twelve steps,

609
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:50.599
they're willing right right right, they
will you try something open minded?

610
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:53.039
Yeah, yeah, try some new
mindsets, some new practices, some new

611
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:58.599
behaviors, because our addiction to the
old model isn't going to help us at

612
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:01.039
all. You know. That's the
first thing we have to do is unlearn

613
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:07.599
in this process before we can begin
to learn a new well that brings us

614
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:10.159
to a near beautiful closer to this
program here, Michael, you know that

615
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:15.760
this program was listening by people around
the world who care about elevating their own

616
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:19.280
experience of work, of becoming a
better version of a leader that can really

617
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:22.519
help satisfy the needs and wants of
today's world. And people that are starting

618
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:24.719
to get on that bandwagon up want
to do a business that betters the world.

619
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:29.360
What would you like to leave them
with? I would say, work

620
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:35.079
hard and write your own purpose and
really start to discern that and then and

621
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:38.519
then find the right environment, the
right context, the right business that is

622
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:43.840
going to see value in that where
it's an alignment of values, and then

623
00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:46.719
you'll be in a position to really
thrive and help others, which is the

624
00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:50.840
most beautiful thing. I mean,
that is why we're here, right,

625
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.840
is to become a boon to others. Beautiful way to finish. Michael,

626
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:57.440
I am so glad to know you, encount you as a friend, as

627
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:01.360
a colleague, as a comrade in
this in this work that we're doing together.

628
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:05.199
It's really a delight to know you
and share you with my listeners and

629
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:07.760
viewers. Thank you for being on
working on purpose. Thank you for having

630
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:12.159
me doctor Lacier. Absolutely absolutely,
listeners and viewers, you're you're going to

631
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:15.639
want to learn more about this remarkable
man. Michael Graeber, the work he

632
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:19.159
needs team do at Epic Pivot and
his various writings. So I encourage you

633
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:22.679
to start by visiting epicpivot dot com. Let me spell that for you Epic

634
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:28.280
E p I C Pivot p I
v O T epic pivot dot com.

635
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:30.880
Last week, if you missed the
live show, you always catch a via

636
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:34.480
recorded podcast. We were on the
air with doctor ron J. Golotti talking

637
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:38.840
about his ideas and research at Harvard
and helping companies to deeply operationalize purpose throughout

638
00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:43.960
their company to achieve new game level
results. It's really remarkable his work.

639
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:47.320
His book is profound and it's well
worth picking up. It's totally next level

640
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:52.239
purpose. Next week will be on
the air with Monica Parker talking about her

641
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:57.199
incredibly medy and enlivening book, The
Power of Wonder, The extraordinary emotion that

642
00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:00.280
will change the way you live,
learn, and lead. You will learn

643
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:02.599
that wonder is both a journey and
a destination, a verb and a noun,

644
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.639
a process and an outcome, and
that there are five interlinking elements that

645
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:10.320
comprise the wonder cycle. You also
learn the extent to which you might be

646
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:14.760
wonder prone. Yourself. See you
there, and remember work as one of

647
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:17.760
the best adventures and means of realizing
our potential and making the impact we crave.

648
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:24.199
So let's work on Purpose. We
hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

649
00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:29.639
Be sure to tune into Working on
Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

650
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.320
each week on W four C Why. Together, We'll create a world

651
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:38.159
where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires
and passion performance, and employees are fulfilled

652
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:42.800
in work that provides the meaning and
purpose they crave. See you there,

653
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:44.440
Let's work on Purpose.