Remaining Workplaces: Crafting Environments that Inspire, Connect, and Elevate Well-Being

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FOURCY Radio. What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache
for meaning and purpose at work, to

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contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part

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of an organization that inspires them and
helps them grow into realizing their highest potential.

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Business can be such a force for
good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance
and inspiration to help usher in this

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world we all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor Elise

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Cortez. Welcome back to the Working
and Purpose Program, which has been brought

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to you with passion and pride since
February of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning

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in again this week. Great to
have you. I'm your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes. If we've not met
before and you don't know me, I'm

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an organizational psychologist and logo therapist,
speaker and author. My team and I

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at Gusto Now help companies to enliven
and fortify their operations by articulating their purpose

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and building inspirational leaders and cultures activated
by meeting and purpose to turn those companies

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from a flatline EKG to a vibrant
destination workplace. There people are intrinsically motivated

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to perform with their best, can
grow into the fuller potential, and are

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committed to stay and dynamically deliver on
the company's mission. You can learn more

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about us and how we can work
together at gustodashnow dot com and my personal

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website, Atlascortes dot com. Now
getting into today's program, we have with

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us today Kevin Kelly, who's an
award winning architect, experienced designer and co

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founder of the bicoastal strategic design firm
SHUK. Kelly as a lifelong advocate of

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bringing people together in pro social settings. Kevin's expertise is in studying how the

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environment of a place affects our behavior, perception, and decision making. Since

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opening their firms stores in nineteen ninety
two, he has worked with executive leadership

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teams from some of the world's most
well known brands such as Harley Davidson,

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Whole Foods, Craft, J M. Schmucker, the Cleveland Orchestra, professional

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sports teams, universities, urban districts, and hundreds of local and regional businesses

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to stay relevant and profitable and are
rapidly changing modern landscape. He's the author

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of Irreplaceable, How to create extraordinary
Places that bring people together, which is

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what we're talking about today. He
judges today from Los Angeles, Kevin,

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A hearty welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank you so much. It's a

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pleasure to be here. It's wonderful
to have you. I really terribly enjoy

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devouring this beautiful book you brought into
the world. It's just gorgeous. And

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as you're welcome, and as I
was saying to you before we got on

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air, in the nine years of
been hosting this program, you are the

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first and only architect I've had on
that's exciting. I think that's good,

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and it says a lot about how
our profession is evolving. Indeed, indeed,

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and you know, as an organizational
psychologist and just somebody who's quite quite

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passionate about helping people to step into
their shine. As I like to say,

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I was delighted at the way that
you tell us in your book about

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how you discovered your passion and your
craft at such a really young age.

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And so let's open the conversation with
you sharing just that those early days of

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what you threw yourself into that later
led you into becoming an architect. I'd

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never met an architect before, I
didn't know one, but at age six,

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I knew that's what I wanted to
do. I do remember seeing a

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set of blueprints one time that my
father had laid out on the dining room

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table, and if you've seen architectural
drawings, they have all these little leader

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lines with notes and on the side. I didn't know what any of that

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meant or said, but it looked
like the answer to universe to me.

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But my real desire for it was
I was overwhelmingly observant of human beings.

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I would watch how people knocked on
the door, put the key in the

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door, even put ice cubes in
a glass. I didn't really love this

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ability to observe. It was kind
of a neurosis. But I started figuring

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out how to turn it into propeller
for my life and started moving forward.

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And the thing I was most interested
in were environments where people seemed to get

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along, and when I saw people
fighting or intense. I had certain things

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happening as a childhood and during my
childhood that scared me. And I was

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probably going sixty pounds and I was
trying to figure out what I could do.

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I couldn't fight anyone, but I
could go turn the lights down,

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I could put the right music on, I could move the furniture around,

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and I noticed it made a difference. And once I started doing it at

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home, I started doing my friend's
houses at school, and then I needed

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a bigger playing field. So architecture
became that kind of focus for me.

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Most architects aren't interested in behavior,
though I should say they're mostly interested in

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making objects kind of visual and aesthetics. And I'm fixated on behavior, on

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how environment of X behavior. I
think that's a stunning way to open Kevin

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and listeners and viewers, Whether first
if you're a parent or would like to

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be a parent, I really would
like you to pay attention to this and

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just I really think there's such value
in being able to go discover who your

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child is and then help them find
a way to make that work in the

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world, and just go looking with
curiosity. I would have loved to have

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been your parent watching this, Kevin. And I know you, yeah,

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go ahead. I know you have
a young daughter of your own and that

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you're also delighting in which is wonderful. And you were going to say something

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else, well, I think for
what it's worth, because I try to

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advise a lot of young people out
there, and I find people far too

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often pursue what quote makes them happy, and I really believe you need to

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kind of focus on what makes you
mad and what upsets you, what you're

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willing to stand up for. I
exaggerate for effect, but I often say,

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what would you cut another person's ear
off over? And it's a joke,

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But I read a story one time
about Peter O'Toole wanting to fight everyone

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when he realized he wanted to be
an actor and they didn't read their lines

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right. I get that, and
for me, it's not politics. It's

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not education, although I love those
topics. For me, it was odd

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things, the way a room was
set up, the way a restaurant operated,

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and I would observe these behaviors in
me, and you can physically feel

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it, the hair rise on the
back of your neck when something upsets you.

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And so I started to lean into
that and pursue that, and I

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tell my friends, I'm like,
doubt that territory. It's more of a

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broad, fuzzy territory at first,
But just keep pursuing that about what you'd

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be willing to fight for because you'll
do that for free, and that's so

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much easier than having to do something
that you've got to constantly motivate yourself to

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do. That's really interesting advice,
Kevin. I quite align with that.

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We look at where does the Where
does does the world break your heart?

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Is another way that we look at
it. From you to the purpose Spanish

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point beautiful. I like that.
Yeah. The other thing that I wanted

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to echo to your opening of how
you got into this is for leaders now

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since we talked to for parents,
is I really want leaders to also incourage

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I want to encourage them to go
looking for this on their teams. What's

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that weird, strange way that Sally
does this thing with the way she plans

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for meetings. What's that that way
that Wayne always seems to want to go

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about problem solving. Go looking for
that and then just see if there's a

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way to be able to unleash that. So it's amazing what happens when people

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feel seen and you give them a
way chance to be able to play as

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only they can play. So you've
unleashed that force already, Kevin, just

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in your share, So thank you, You're welcome. You're welcome. And

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then I just because I'm a part
of what I've done in my life in

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my career has been a meaning and
work researcher, and so many people ache

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for meaning in their lives and their
work. I thought the way that you

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describe how what your work means to
you just needed to be shared as well.

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What does your work mean to you? It's everything? I mean.

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I don't think we're all wired to
be so fixated in an environment. I

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some think some people are fixated the
way things sound or the way things feel.

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But I'm certainly wired to look at
how building shape or behavior, and

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you know, I Oftentimes hear people
talk about saying they're in an environment,

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but I don't think we look at
the environment being in us just as much

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as food is in us. And
if you eat junk food or candy or

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bad food all the time, it'll
affect your health and the quality of your

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life. And I believe the same
with environments. And I am shocked at

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the number of people with money or
cities with money, that live in bad

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places that stunt their growth, hurt
their businesses, and threaten their livelihoods.

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And I want it to stop,
you know. So this is part of

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the reason why I wrote the book. My profession hasn't necessarily solved the problem,

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and that so much of their work
is around kind of intellectualizing design on

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some you know, art abstract level, and then we have this kind of

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utilitarian approach. But there's a whole
lot more room in between that to really

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make the quality of life and the
quality of our environments a lot better for

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our kids, for our businesses,
for our main streets or our homes,

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and for our local stores. And
we're going to talk more about obviously you

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know what that means, especially for
the workplace. Since the show is focused

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on that realm. Though, before
we do that, I do think it's

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interesting that you say in your book
that you really really made quite a place

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for yourself in designing things like around
grocery stores, convenience stores, pad stores,

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gyms, restaurants, bars. Why
those particular places. Yeah, it's

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kind of an odd thing. As
I, you know, we discussed earlier.

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I was so observant about everyday places, the post office, the department,

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motor vehicles, grocery stores, people
standing in line. And when I

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went to architecture school, everything was
so focused on operas and orchestra halls and

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you know, beautiful houses and asps
and churches and other facilities. And while

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those are great and I really enjoyed
those, I couldn't understand why we weren't

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solving the everyday places. Why do
dry cleaners have to be so bad and

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convenience stores have to be so threatening
and harsh, like almost like an airport

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tarmac? Yeah yeah. And then
I started dealing with the leader of those

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entities, and they tend to be
hyper rationalist, utilitary and efficiency focused individuals

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who make a really compelling case why
design has no place and their places.

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But then I started going I think
it does, so I have to prove

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that environment effects behavior and ultimately sales. So I set myself out on a

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mission with my colleagues, my business
partner Terry Shook, who's my mentor,

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great architect, and others to really
say, how can we change these everyday

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places? And a word we use
is extraordinary, and we break that word

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down into extraordinary. How do we
take those everyday places and make them better?

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That's so beautiful as someone who really
does respond what we all do.

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As you know, but I'm maybe
not nearly as aware of it as you

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are. But when I walk into
a place that makes me, that delights

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me. For example, there's a
place here in Dallas called The Finch that's

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pretty new on mar you can bring
seventy five and do you know it.

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I've heard about that. I was
just in Dallas two weeks ago. I

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would love to hear your opinion on
it. For me. When I walk

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into that place, Kevin, it
just automatically lifts me. It's beautiful,

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so it pulls me up. It
invites me to play with food and drink

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in a different way. Fascinating.
I've heard about it, I haven't seen

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it, but I will tell you
this that the thing that I mean,

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we all know something that others don't
know, and it's great when somebody can

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give you some insights and how we
function as people and work in society.

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And the thing that I really spent
my life understanding is how our senses affect

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our behavior, our mood, our
perception of places, and not only intellectually,

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but biologically and socially. And when
you walk into a place that feels

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good, it's almost always starting with
your senses first, and we could break

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down each of those senses into what's
happening, but those places create a kind

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of visual harmony and a social list
and a feeling of safety. And when

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I say safety, that's physically,
socially and emotionally. And when you get

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in those kind of forums and they're
stimulating your senses, it's so invigorating for

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us. And that's when memories are
made. You know, during the pandemic,

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when people were staying home, they
lost all sense of time because they

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kind of hit a cognitive impairment of
just the same old place in and out,

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and they couldn't remember their memories well, because memories are generally differentiated through

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the places we're in. If we
think back to all our great memories.

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We imagine being on that dock,
or on that island, or in that

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restaurant. We all remember where we
proposed or where we are one of our

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relatives was born. There's something really
powerful about memory and place, and it's

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those types of things that really make
a place feel great. And so I'm

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always looking for those types of behaviors
when I see people entering that social bliss

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and that social harmony. And if
I could extend this idea a little further,

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as human beings, we like to
get in sync with other people.

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That's what's so powerful about a movie. You know, where we generally walk

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around pretty defensive, we suppress our
emotions because we always have to appear like

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we're in control. But when we
go to a dark room theater with a

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bunch of strangers, we can cry, we can laugh, we can scream

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around them because the movie does such
a good job of breaking those barriers down

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and eliciting those really powerful emotions,
which are therapeutic for us. Right,

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who would think crying is good?
But it's very good. I would,

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I know, yeah you would.
And so when you go to a place

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that feels good and you walk around
and you stroll hand in hand, and

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you see other people and you feel
like it's okay to say hi or to

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talk to a stranger. That makes
us feel really good. We're cooperative species,

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and when we feel like everybody around
us is cooperating and we're all together

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and we have a sense of belonging
and synchronicity, it's very powerful, and

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it's really lacking in our current era. We spend up to seven eight hours

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a day in front of a screen
that is having a significant impact on our

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ability to relate to others and to
feel that social connection. Indeed, I

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completely agree, and that's why I
thought there were so many things about your

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book that you wrote about that I
were wholly unanticipated, like this all that

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we've been talking about so far,
and more to come. On that note,

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let us take our first break.
I'm your host, Doctorlie's Cortes.

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We've on the earth Kevin Kelly.
He's the author of Irreplaceable, How to

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Create Extraordinary Places that bring People Together. We've been talking a bit about where

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his original ideas came from, why
they're important to us as human beings,

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and really how we can live a
more vibrant life when we pay attention to

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place and do something to actually steward
it the way that we like. We're

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going to talk about this new multidisciplinary
field that he and his team has created

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called convening. Stay with us,
we'll be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes

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is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author,

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she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership

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and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.

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To learn more or to invite a
lease to speak to your organization,

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please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

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employees working on purpose. This is
working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes.

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To reach our program today or to
open a conversation with Elise, send an

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email to a lease a LISEE at
eliscortes dot com. Now back to working

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on purpose. Thanks for staying with
us, and welcome back to working on

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Purpose. I'm your host, doctor
Elise Cortes, as I too, am

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dedicated to helping create a world where
people realize their potential at work and are

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led by inspirational leaders that help them
find and contribute their greatness, and we

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do business at Betters the World.
I keep researching and writing my own books.

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So the latest one came out in
March of twenty twenty three. It's

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called The Great Revitalization. How activating
meeting and Purpose can radically enliven your business.

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And I wrote it to help readers
understand the lay of today's workforce,

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what they really want to thrive,
and then I offer twenty two best practices

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to help equip you in your culture
and leadership to provide that for them.

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You can learn more about my books
at a lasecoretes dot com or find them

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on Amazon if you are just joining
me today. My guest is Kevin Kelly.

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He's an award winning architect, experience
designer and conder of the bi Coastal

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Strategic firm Shook Kelly. So I
was quite intrigued. There were so many

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things about your book that I,
like I said, did not expect and

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was delighted by. And one of
them is this notion of this new multidisciplinary

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field you and your team have created
called convening. Let's talk about that.

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Yes, my business partner and I
were. You know, we're thinking a

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lot about language and our team and
I are extremely observant about the words people

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use, the jokes they tell you
were talking earlier about organizations and helping team

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members. Well, when we interview
people, we are beyond focused on where

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they sit, if they cross their
legs or not, what kind of drinks

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they put in their hand, their
pens, their notepads. We're looking for

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cues and triggers, and it really
helps us understand underneath each leader or each

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team member, what they're feeling and
what big ideas they have. Because we're

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so observant to language, we would
listen to the way people would talk about

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places. They would use words like
architecture, which tended to have a high

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brow kind of sound to it,
or they would talk about facilities, which

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tended to be very utilitarian. You
would hear other words out there. But

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we started thinking about this idea of
how it could be bigger and more meaningful

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than the kind of old habitual ways
I guess habitualays we talk about place,

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and so we started thinking about what
are we just trying to attract people like,

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no, we want more than that. Are we trying to gather them

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we said, well, we like
that, but we want to convene them

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around an idea, a big idea, say in the Harley Davidson world.

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We want to convene them around freedom, rebellion and kind of stick it to

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the man idea. You know,
we were looking something powerful, and then

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we not only want that idea,
we want this forum to have a kind

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of structure and experience that impacts you, that leads an indelible endprint on you.

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Again, most of this is subconscious. You know it when you feel

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it, but it's not something that
you reflect on a lot other than a

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great memory of it. So convening
really helped us help these help our clients

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understand the greater power of their place. I just especially, and we'll talk

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more about this as we go,
but just really fixated today, of course,

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not just on where we live and
dwell and visit and play, but

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where do we do our work.
And that's something we'll talk about later.

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I thinking about making it more a
compelling place to convene. It just fascinates,

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so we'll get there. But one
of the other things that you said

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that I thought was really worth discussing, and something that I too find myself

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shall we say disgusted by I don't
know if you are or not, but

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I am. But you talk about
how there's this fixation on ease and efficiency

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technology. You're supposed to make things
faster and better and easier and all these

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sort of things. But then you
say, shouldn't some things in life require

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effort? Yeah, there's this this
whole attack on anything inefficient, and you

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hear the tech titans constantly talk about
it. You hear Wall Street talk about

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it, and the spreadsheet driven folks
just constantly talking about ruthless efficiency. It's

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almost a prideful thing that they brag
about. And I start, you know,

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they keep saying, well, you
can use chat GPT to write a

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love letter, And I'm like,
well, shouldn't I write a love letter?

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Shouldn't I actually make it? And
you can send a text message instead

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of buying a card? And I'm
using those as exaggerative examples. But we

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have a tendency as humans to not
want to do things, and we get

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resistant, and we get kind of
heavy in our seats, you know,

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we get heavy on the couch and
we don't want to go out. But

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I can almost guarantee you every time
you go out and go into the world.

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You have such a great opportunity to
expand your mind, to activate your

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senses, to meet somebody. If
I think about all the changes in my

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life, I met my wife in
an airport baggage claim on a trip that

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I debated about going to, and
it completely changed my life. I mean

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everything about my life. And to
this day, my wife and I lay

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in bed and go can you believe
we met in baggage claim. It's that

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trip I would have never met her. And so there is this kind of

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force out there that wants to keep
us at home and our pajamas, binge

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watching Netflix, ordering our food in
And yes, that's easier, but it's

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kind of dangerous for us. It's
dangerous for us personally, socially, civilly.

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We need to get out and meet
the other and to interact just as

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much as we need to walk and
move our body. I align with that,

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Kevin, because as a logo therapist, what we know is that we

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in logo therapy. For those of
you who don't know what that is,

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it's or logo philosophy is really it's
about healing through meaning. But what we

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know about human beings is that we
need a certain tension in our lives to

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be vital. That tension between who
we are today and what we're striving for

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tomorrow or in the next moment.
There's that reaching that you're really talking about

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that we need. Otherwise we become
apathetic and we start to atrophy, which

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is what you were talking about.
Yes, yeah, And I just worry

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that we are getting more and more
this way. And what I've noticed among

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my friends, my colleagues, even
myself, is this tendency to go.

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I got to put on clothes,
I got to put on a tie,

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I got to go to this event, And we're all developing a form of

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social anxiety. Yet every time I
do that, something great happens. And

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I just can't encourage people enough to
don't let that kind of gravity pull you

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down, because you're just going to
become a lemming. And we all remember

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that film Wally and there were people
floating around a lot, you lazy boys,

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having all their drinks and their legs
and their knees didn't work because they

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hadn't used them. They couldn't push
buttons. We're not that far from that,

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yeah, we really are. And
we're growing generations of kids that don't

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go out. Yeah, not that
we want to focus on this, but

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I heard statistic that one billion people
in the across the world are now considered

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obese. Yes, so yes,
we are getting there. We are getting

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there. So let's move on to
more and more interesting or enlivening things than

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what important things to talk about.
But I was very also intrigued with your

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whole bonfire effect idea, Kevin.
We've got to talk about that. Sure,

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yeah, I you know, I
won't try to play myself as some

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intellectual that grew up, you know, around some glorious environment. I grew

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up in the swamps in South Florida. There wasn't a lot to do off

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a dirt road, and the weekends
were well. During the week we built

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vehicles that look like something out of
mad Max vehicles, airboats and buggies and

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four wheel drives, and we all
went out into the six miles out into

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the Everglades to a big kind of
redneck river air a mound of dirt in

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the middle of the swamps. And
we came from different high schools in different

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places, and we did this every
weekend. It was a ritual, and

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nobody sent out a notice because we
didn't have notices back then, but we

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knew that's where to be. And
we also knew how to organize ourselves.

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To build a bonfire. A bunch
of strangers put a whole bonfire together,

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and then they would, you know, the bonfire master would set the thing

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a blaze and get just the perfect
glow, not too big and not too

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small, and it would create this
kind of magical enchantment where everybody got along.

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And Carl Jung called this participation mistique. He said, this is when

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there's something happening underneath our consciousness that
unites us. It goes back to that

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social synchronicity I mentioned. And when
I left the swamps and ended up going

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to college and eventually at Arburn myself. I saw bonfires everywhere. I see

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them on Rodeo Drive, I see
them on Fifth Avenue. I see them

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in you know, Minnesota and Oklahoma. They're everywhere. And I'm very intrigued

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with when do people come together and
create that social harmony and that social connection.

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And so a lot of companies have
chief brand officers, which oftentimes becomes

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more about economics or just promotions,
and I'm more interested in what brings people

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together around that idea, that form, and that experience, and who's tending

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to that flame, because we all
know brands that get too big, the

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bonfire gets too big and chases everybody
off, or they die down and kind

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of dwindle and don't really have that
power to bring us together anymore. Imagine

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if Sears had a bonfire master as
opposed to a financial engineer figuring out how

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to sell private equity. I think
it would be a wildly different store if

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they had a bonfire what do you
call it? On fire? Well,

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on fire master. So I advocate
to my clients that they create a chief

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bonfire master, and that they create
a regular functioning group of people who tend

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to the flame of that of their
place to protect its livelihood. It's vitality,

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its strength, it's magic glow,
and we measure that. We measure

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it through a tendance and engagement,
experimentation and socialization. Of course, ultimately

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with sales. You know what's interesting
about that to me, Kevin, just

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quickly that relates to it for me, as what you're really speaking to is

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is somebody inside of the organization that's
really I don't know, stewarding well the

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health and the heartbeat of the organization. For sure, it's flame. But

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to me that reminds me of what
you do, or maybe I don't know

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if you still do this. It
really did delight me to know that,

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you know, the way that you
have continued to sharpen your own saw and

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develop your craft is you know,
you're the guy that sits out in parking

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lots and the you know, the
folding chair and watches people come in and

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out of stores and I think a
long every week. It's delightful. You

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had to confess this to your wife, Yes, I did, and you

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know, every day she'd see me
going to work and she'd go, why

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are you wearing that? And I'm
like, I just want to blend in

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and because I'm going to all different
types of environments and I go and just

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become an eavesdropper and a lawyer,
a professional lawyer, and I just watch

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and observe people. And you know, I've been doing this thirty one years

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as my own company, and I
whenever I go to these places, I

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don't know what I'm going to find, and that would normally give me an

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anxiety. You know, it gives
my staff an anxiety sometimes. And I'm

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like, we're just going to sit
here until we start seeing anomalies, patterns

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and trends. And sometimes that'll happen
in one hour. Sometimes it'll happen in

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a week. And I help my
clients because they're always looking for breakthroughs and

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they're like, you, how do
you come up with them? And I'm

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like, deviations to the norm.
If I see people coming in and everybody's

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wearing the same sock, there's something
to it. Or everybody's driving the same

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type of car, everybody's buying the
same type of product. That is a

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clue that gets me in deeper.
And I will keep mining that seam until

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we hit upon the breakthrough we need. So anybody ever come over up to

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you and say, what are you
doing? I mean you've been sitting here,

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I mean for two hours or three
hours? Anybody ever do that?

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Yeah? I tell the story briefly
in the book about Ernie the tow truck

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driver Harley Davidson. So, oh, yes, you're doing it so fun?

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Yes, And so Ernie was a
great guy, and I loved Ernie,

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and you know, if I could
deviate there. The great ritual was

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when you go to Harley Store,
everybody kind of circles the interior and watches

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other people get on bikes and grip
it, and people do exactly the same

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thing. They look down at the
engine, they pull the handle, and

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somebody eventually says to them, They
go, what do you think? And

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they have a whole conversation around that. And that would be odd that ritual

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at a Banana Republic store if he
said, what do you think of that

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00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.720
sweater? You going to buy it? You know, we would call the

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police. But in Harley store is
perfectly normal. And Ernie and I became,

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you know, friends, and I
was just really learning a lot about

407
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:27.799
them. But I went to another
store about an hour and a half away

408
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:33.119
the next day and lo and behold, Ernie was there. And my staff

409
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:34.240
started freaking o O, oh,
my gosh, Ernie's there. And I'm

410
00:30:34.279 --> 00:30:37.160
like, yeah, what am we
going to do? So I went up

411
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:38.480
to Ernie and accused him of following
me. I said, Hey, what

412
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:42.160
are you doing? You following me? And he said no, No,

413
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:48.240
I go to different Harley stores every
day because I like to just hang out

414
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.079
and I feel like if I'm not
buying stuff, they're going to make me

415
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:56.240
leave. That was exactly the insight. I needed my team and I started

416
00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:59.160
focusing on They're like, why does
the store make you feel like you have

417
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.160
to leave? So then we started
designing the stores with bonfires and cafes and

418
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:08.079
gathering spots and saying why don't you
come here anytime you want? Because everywhere

419
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:11.519
else, Ernie didn't feel like a
hero. He said the funniest thing,

420
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:17.720
he said, you know, I
need six pack abs and a MacBook Pro

421
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:22.319
to go hang out at Soul Cycle
or Blue Bottle Coffee goes. But in

422
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.559
this store, I'm a hero.
And that was everything I needed to know.

423
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.680
And I get those kind of anomalies
by listening to people talk. I

424
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:36.079
said it early, but oftentimes jokes
are where they really tell me the truth.

425
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:41.240
Because Ernie said one line and our
discussion he said, he said,

426
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:44.880
yeah, this is a place for
midlife is Christ, midlife crisis, males

427
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:51.319
fading and strength. It told us
volumes everything we needed to kind of start

428
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:56.240
focusing on. Oh too bad we
only get an hour together. Kevin,

429
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.039
You're delightful and so much. No, it was lightful, was terrific.

430
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:06.119
I don't apologize for being brilliant.
Let's grab our next break here. I'm

431
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.960
your host doctor Release Cortez, who
going on air with Kevin Kelly. He's

432
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:13.319
the author of Irreplaceable, How to
Create Extraordinary Places that bring People Together.

433
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:16.839
You've heard him talk about some of
his things that he is fixated on over

434
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:21.960
the years, including the bonfire effect
and convening after the work. We're going

435
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:25.720
to devote that segment to really focused
on being focused on the work versus payoff

436
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:31.279
ratio of place and how we can
really look at our physical our environment in

437
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:50.720
the workplace. Stay with us,
We'll be right back. Doctor Release Cortez

438
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:54.799
is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author.

439
00:32:55.079 --> 00:33:00.480
She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and developed purpose inspired leadership

440
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:06.559
and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.

441
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.519
To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please

442
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:15.119
visit her at Elisecortes dot com.
Let's talk about how to get your employees

443
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:24.079
working on purpose. This is working
on purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To

444
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:29.160
reach our program today or to open
a conversation with Elise, send an email

445
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:36.160
to Elise Alise at Elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

446
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:43.839
Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to Working on Purpose. I'm

447
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:46.400
your host, doctor Elise Cortes.
As I mentioned in the last break that

448
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:50.640
my latest book came out in March
of twenty twenty three, The Great Revitalization.

449
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.839
What I did for you is I
created a three page organizational assessment for

450
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:59.480
best practices to help you gauge the
extent to which your current operations are meeting

451
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:02.960
the desires standards of today's workforce.
You can find it at gustodashnout dot com

452
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.200
if you are now just joining us. My guest is Kevin Kelly. He's

453
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:12.280
an award winning architect, experience designer
and co founder of the bicoastal strategic design

454
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:16.519
firm Shook Kelly. So this whole
idea here, I've been very, very

455
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:20.760
very intrigued that part of what I
wrote about it in The Great Vialization is

456
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.159
how vastly things have changed since the
pandemic and such, and how people have

457
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:30.199
elevated their consciousness to recognize what more
they really want from life and the work

458
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:34.400
revolution. You use the word revolution
in your book that's occurred. So let's

459
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:38.079
talk about this notion of what you
talk what you call the work versus payoff

460
00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:44.440
of police. Yes, you know, I'll try to make this quick,

461
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.800
but the you know, all over
our country, for hundreds of years,

462
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:54.400
people participate in the American dream of
setting up businesses and car washes and barbershops

463
00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:00.079
and small cafes and pubs and bars. But since two thousand and seven,

464
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:05.119
when we had the iPhone come out
and the kind of adoption, mass adoption

465
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:09.239
of social media and online paying,
less and less people started visiting place and

466
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:15.039
places started dying kind of death by
thousand cuts because they can't afford to give

467
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.079
up ten to twenty percent of their
business. And yet these people are calling

468
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.599
me to save them and save their
places. And when I try to study

469
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:28.280
how they were competing, they were
trying to emulate the online businesses that focused

470
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:34.199
on price, variety and convenience and
ruthless efficiency. And up until that point,

471
00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:38.079
really stores, local shops, local
places were the only places you could

472
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:42.159
get things done and get goods.
But in this new world, you can

473
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.920
get stuff from China, you can
get stuff from into you can get stuff

474
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:47.119
anywhere in the world. And anybody
with a computer and a garage or even

475
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:52.320
a smartphone and a you know,
on a side of a road can set

476
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:55.199
up a business. And so it's
very difficult to compete on that and that

477
00:35:55.320 --> 00:36:00.519
contest. So I get my clients
out of that race and like stop competing

478
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:06.639
on price, writing, convenience,
and start convening on other aspects social bliss,

479
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:12.000
harmony, connection, discovery, adventure. And so when we look at

480
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.079
going to a place versus ordering online
from our pjs at home, to go

481
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:17.440
to a place, I've got to
get dressed up, brush my teeth,

482
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:21.880
comb hair, getting a car,
fine parking, going and building. That's

483
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.119
work and it's irritating, and a
lot of companies aren't really focused on that

484
00:36:25.159 --> 00:36:30.239
because they're focused on that price,
variety, convenience. To MENSI, well,

485
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.039
what I want them to focus on
is really making the payoff higher than

486
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:37.599
the work. They need to work
on the work aspect, but they also

487
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.960
need to work on the payoff,
and those payoffs are normally emotional and social,

488
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:45.000
often physical too. There are physical
payoffs you can get from going to

489
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:50.559
a place. So whenever we are
evaluating a place, the first thing we

490
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:54.239
do is really break down what are
the aspects that humans would consider work and

491
00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:59.920
what are the aspects humans would consider
a payoff. And I'm giving you the

492
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:01.960
short answer of that, Yes,
I know, and I appreciate that,

493
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:07.800
which is just because we it goes
by so fast. One thing that I

494
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.800
became very aware of, Kevin,
you just said that to so in such

495
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:16.840
an enlarging way, is how experience
became such an important criteria, especially after

496
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:22.679
the pandemic. People people were searching
for and wanted experiences, rich experiences,

497
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:27.360
connective experiences. And so, of
course, you know, in my world,

498
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:31.119
a lot of what I do is
either consulting, speaking, workshops,

499
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:37.320
et cetera. So the difference between
doing that via Zoom and in person is

500
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:39.480
about three and a half worlds to
part. Now, Yeah, yeah,

501
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:45.320
I mean I every time I have
to, I have a choice go visit

502
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:49.320
my client, do the presentation,
or do it on Zoom. Every time

503
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.400
I go visit them, it's a
lot of work, it's a lot of

504
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.679
expense. The meetings are just so
much deeper, better, the connection stronger,

505
00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:59.079
and the ideas are richer. Whenever
we do it on Zoom, it

506
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.039
is a lot more efficient, and
we just don't hit that level. Now.

507
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:06.320
I'm not suggesting we get rid of
that because it is a useful tool,

508
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.440
but we need to save room in
our lives for those connections. We

509
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:14.800
need to at least do some of
that in our life. I completely agree

510
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:17.599
with that. Yes, and even
just I want to recognize something, Kevin,

511
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:22.000
about you, even just the quality
of your voice has got such a

512
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:28.239
it's such a rich sort of it's
velvety. It's a velvety voice. I

513
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:30.840
hate my voice, but that makes
me happy to hear that. I can't

514
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:34.360
listen to myself talk. Have you
heard that before, that it's velvety.

515
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:40.079
Yes, my wife and one of
my friend's advisors tells me that. But

516
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.599
but I really appreciate that. I
feel like I sounds like a guy with

517
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:51.760
pebbles and whiskey in his mouth.
Well it works, It works for me,

518
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:54.280
and that's my favorite. That's my
favorite sense, Kevin. So just

519
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:59.480
let's just go with it. Powerful. Speaking of sense, I did want

520
00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.280
to go a little bit deeper.
You have a whole chapter on making sense

521
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.880
of place that and I know you've
you've already talked a bit about the importance

522
00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:12.639
of our century experience, our century
interaction action with places that we go.

523
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:16.159
But what else would you like to
help us understand about this notion of making

524
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:22.320
sense of place. Yeah, we
you know, there's a famous joke that

525
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:27.320
older fish asks the underfish house the
water, and the younger fish says,

526
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:31.639
what's water? Right? Kind of
have that sense about our lives. We're

527
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:36.880
not really aware that we're in an
environment. And as I said earlier,

528
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:38.599
that environments in us. And so
when we get up in the morning and

529
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:43.320
we walk to our office or to
the coffee shop, we don't actually have

530
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:47.039
a walking plan. Our brain automatically
makes those decisions. We also don't tell

531
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:51.800
our eyes where to go. Our
involuntary eyes go where they want to go,

532
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:54.920
and our involuntary sound mechanisms listen to
what they want to listen to.

533
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:59.960
Now, those aren't random things.
Your brain and your body have been hardwired

534
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.360
pay attention to the things that will
enhance life and be aware of those things

535
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.199
that could act as impediments or threats
to your life. Well, those same

536
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:13.000
skills are brought into restaurants, grocery
stores, shopping malls, even the office.

537
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:17.280
And so if you become knowledgeable in
how the senses work and how we

538
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:22.400
comprehend our world, you'll have a
much greater understanding of how humans behave and

539
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:27.480
understanding what they do. Even our
language, you know, we constantly talk

540
00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:30.000
about people in terms of being slick
or rough on the edges, or hard

541
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:35.639
headed. These are physical qualities that
we put into our language, and our

542
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:39.239
language is based on those metaphors.
So it's really important that we study the

543
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:44.199
senses. But the senses are not
studied in business school, nor in design

544
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:47.480
school, and none of the retailers
or restaurants are learning about the senses.

545
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:51.800
So therefore, you walk in the
bathroom and it looks horrible, and then

546
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:54.480
you think the food is bad or
it smells bad. And I can't tell

547
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:59.320
the number of clients that have terrible
bathrooms that are like, what's the big

548
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:01.440
deal, And I'm like, get
the bathroom right, and then you'll sell

549
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:06.079
more seafood. And then they have
a hard time believing that. But I'm

550
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:08.800
like, it is the number one
criteria people base your cleanliness on and the

551
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:14.199
health of your place. So our
senses are just so powerful and hardwired,

552
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:19.360
and they've been that way since we
evolved as a species. You know,

553
00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:23.440
speaking of the whole toilet issue,
Kevin I redusted at someplace that one of

554
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:28.079
the big reasons that people don't want
to come to work in the office.

555
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:34.719
Yes, the bathroom experience. Yeah, yeah, this gets back to our

556
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:39.880
our weakening socialization skills. You know, we're getting really conscientious about everything,

557
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:44.760
and imagine Instagram on top of this, heightening up this need to be perfect

558
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:50.079
right and not really showing the unsavory
parts of our lives or what now is

559
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:53.679
being deemed as unsavory and used to
just be normal. But these are things

560
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:57.760
that I think we have to work
in getting over right. We have to

561
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:00.920
work at getting used to those things, cooperating and being around each other,

562
00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:06.360
and it's never as bad as we
think it is. But yes, you're

563
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:10.400
right, people, the bathroom is
a very intimate issue, and it's a

564
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:15.400
very personal issue, and it's one
of the things that companies need to get

565
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:19.480
right. Yeah, yeah, I
agreed. Well I want to go there

566
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:22.079
next. A couple had a couple
of questions here. But one thing that

567
00:42:22.119 --> 00:42:24.920
you talk about that's really been interesting
to me is, you know, the

568
00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:32.199
reinventing office building in today's changed world
of work. I mean, I have

569
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:38.960
been so as somebody who helps organizations
to shape and their culture. So much

570
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:43.320
of what I was doing was helping
people recognize why do people actually have to

571
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:45.880
be in the office each day,
that they why when they are asking not

572
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:51.840
to be The resistance to that was
so interesting. But you really have quite

573
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:58.320
a really compelling chapter or more where
you're talking about just this notion of that.

574
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:01.679
You say that you say many standard
forms and shapes, such as the

575
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:06.760
mall, grocery store, and convenience
store concepts discussed in this book are long

576
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:10.679
overdue for reinvention. Same goes for
the institution of institutions, of universities,

577
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:16.119
museums, and performing arts facilities.
But the most concerning standard forms and shapes

578
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:22.599
needing radical reinvention are office buildings and
by extension, downtown areas, central business

579
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:28.800
districts, and urban employment centers.
Yeah, there's so much unpack in that,

580
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:32.280
and I will try not to hit
all of it. But let's start

581
00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:37.079
with form in shape. Because our
brain is operating off a very low wattage,

582
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:42.199
about a sixty light bulb of power
from calories that we take in,

583
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.159
we try to digest the world as
best we can, but we can't scan

584
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:51.119
everything, and so we look for
the most important aspects again that relate to

585
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:54.559
enhancement and impediments to life, and
so we do something all predictive coding,

586
00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:59.760
and when we recognize what something is, we don't spend any time on it,

587
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:01.719
which is okay on one level,
but it's not great if you're a

588
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:06.679
department store or a mall or another
place trying to break out of an old

589
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.679
stereotype. Malls certainly are trying to
break out of those stereotypes. And I'll

590
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:13.880
meet mall developers that say, well, we've banished the word, we never

591
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.960
say mall. But I'm like,
but your building still looks like them all.

592
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:19.639
It's still the form and shape of
them all. And that's how humans

593
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.400
relate to buildings. So until you
change that form in shape to something different,

594
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:29.679
you won't get the reaction you want. The office building and the downtowns

595
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:36.519
are one of the most concerning features
I see in our current economy because the

596
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:43.159
attendance is terribly low and it doesn't
appear to be changing, even with mandating

597
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:47.039
that employees have to come to work. And so the value proposition was set

598
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:52.280
up under an old paradigm where we
had to be close. And really,

599
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.199
if you think about the word proximity, proximity was how you moved up in

600
00:44:55.239 --> 00:44:59.039
the world. You had to be
close to the movers and shakers, close

601
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.880
to the factories, close to the
courthouse, all of those things that really

602
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:05.039
helped. Well, now we don't
have to do that. We can be

603
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.559
on a laptop in Tahiti, and
so we need to change what are the

604
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:14.800
values of proximity in different senses.
Now, young people, young professionals,

605
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:20.679
the creative talent oftentimes are single and
looking to connect with others, and so

606
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:25.880
downtown environments provide a wonderful opportunity to
serve as playgrounds and kind of atom smashers

607
00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:31.760
of social identities and social experiences.
So that's about the best bet our central

608
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:37.039
business districts have. But this old
paradigm of I have to be on the

609
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:40.719
thirty third floor next to a secretarial
pool just doesn't cut it anymore. Unfortunately.

610
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:47.480
Yeah, it's really, really,
very very fascinating for me to see

611
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:50.639
how this is going to play out. And as you say, there's no

612
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:54.000
easy answers, and there's a lot
of complexity in this. And I also

613
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:59.119
agree with you you talk about this
moving away from mandating a return to the

614
00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:02.480
office to making the experience compelling,
and you've mentioned this a little bit here,

615
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:07.639
but this is something that I'm watching
more and more organizations start to focus

616
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.159
on recognizing we can't just say you
but because I said so, you have

617
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:14.840
to come in because I said so. Yeah, Well, the best talent

618
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.039
and that's who the companies want can
go wherever they want to go. That's

619
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:21.719
where we really need to boil it
down to is we're not talking. You

620
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:25.039
know, we all want the best
talent, and it's really they're calling the

621
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:30.039
shots. And so what what I
do find is if you peel to different

622
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:36.079
drivers in them, different sides of
them, you can actually you can get

623
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:39.440
them interested. And we do want
to have experiences, We want to play,

624
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:43.599
we want to bond, we want
to you know, have pep rallies

625
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:49.639
kind of really a fort mentality and
a bonding mentality. So our own for

626
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.719
our own offices, we've turned them
much more into forts where people can come

627
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:57.199
and get you get away from working
home, you know, and actually come

628
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:01.880
and connect. But we have a
ten year cycle here we're going to have

629
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:06.639
to worry about. And it's not
just downtown environments, because we all will

630
00:47:06.679 --> 00:47:10.760
inherit these problems. Yeah, some
really big, hairy problems like you talk

631
00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:15.320
about in your book, you know, fall some of the revenues from the

632
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.920
local tax base can be lowered,
undesirable activities including crime, vagrancy, loitering,

633
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:27.119
and graffiti will increase. So it
is a massive problem, it really

634
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:30.440
is. And so then I look
at again as I'm thrown to is,

635
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:31.960
well, what can we do about
that? And I liked what you wrote

636
00:47:31.960 --> 00:47:38.039
about in terms of the potential repurposing
of central business districts. Yeah, the

637
00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:45.079
secret to any type of urban district
or downtown environment is to have a built

638
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:49.239
in base of people. And the
built in base can become residents, it

639
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:53.320
can become universities, it become laboratories, it can become any number of things.

640
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:57.599
But the key is you have to
have a built in base. And

641
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:01.440
you know the history of cities,
what I find interesting is that they were

642
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:07.039
much more service oriented and that we
had local shops that served our needs and

643
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:12.840
local things that we really really valued
in living those places. And then we

644
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:19.480
somehow turned cities into these giant,
kind of rich places that are over the

645
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:23.880
top theme penthouse places, and therefore
they stop becoming functional and local. And

646
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:28.480
I think we have to get back
to that. Even service retail as opposed

647
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:34.079
to theme park retail, but service
retail with residents, with universities nearby can

648
00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:37.920
do a lot for a city because
then you build in a quality of life

649
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:42.559
with a built in base of people
that then start to kind of civilize the

650
00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:47.000
place and really kind of keep it
up, keep it from falling into apathy.

651
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:51.440
Apathy is the word I worry about
the most. Yes, me too.

652
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:54.599
Once a place becomes apathetic, it
is very hard to turn it around.

653
00:48:54.920 --> 00:49:00.079
Not impossible, but it's very difficult. Agreed. And on that note,

654
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.679
we we have to close. We're
coming to the close. So I

655
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:06.679
want to say thank you Kevin for
writing this beautiful book, sharing with the

656
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:08.199
world, for coming out of the
program, and sharing with my listeners and

657
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:13.039
viewers across the globe. You are
a gift well, doctor Lees, thank

658
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:16.360
you so much. I am so
impressed with what you do, your books,

659
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:21.679
your language. I think I'd like
to interview you because you have so

660
00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:23.400
much knowledge that would help me.
So thank you for having me. I

661
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:27.880
would be delighted. We'll talk further. Of course, listeners and viewers,

662
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:30.360
you're going to want to learn more
about Kevin Kelly, the work he and

663
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:32.800
news team do at Shook Kelly and
look further into his book. So you've

664
00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:37.880
got a couple places to go.
Their professional site is shook Kelly. Let

665
00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:42.159
me spell that for you s h
O O K K E l l e

666
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:46.960
y dot com. And then his
personal site is Kevin Ervin Kelly dot com.

667
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:52.159
So Kevin k E v I n
Irvin e r v I n Kelly

668
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:55.840
k E l l e y Kevin
erwin Kelly dot com. That's the site

669
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.920
for the book. Site for the
book. Okay, last week, you

670
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:01.519
miss the live show, you can
always catch it be a recorded podcast.

671
00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:06.440
We were on the air with doctor
Andre Martin, a fellow organizational psychologist,

672
00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:09.159
talking about his book Wrong Fit,
Right Fit, How the way we work

673
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:14.400
matters more than ever. He gave
us some tremendous insights into how individual talent

674
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:17.280
can seek and find work environments that
best suit them, and how companies can

675
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:22.840
showcase their actual day to day experiences
rather than their aspirational wand to encourage a

676
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:25.320
better fit right from the start.
Next week will be on the air with

677
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:30.320
Todd Davis. He's a senior consultant
and thought leader at Franklin Covey, talking

678
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.719
about how to navigate difficult conversations,
not that any of us have those.

679
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:37.239
See you there and remember work as
one of the best adventures and means of

680
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.199
realizing our potential and making the impact
we crave. So let's work on Purpose.

681
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:46.480
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working

682
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:51.760
on Purpose featuring your host, doctor
Elise Cortes, each week on W four

683
00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:55.880
C Why. Together, We'll create
a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership

684
00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:00.480
inspires and passion performance and employees are
fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and

685
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:05.199
purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.