Outsmarting Burnout: Building Resilience for a Purpose-Driven Life

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, Doctor Release Cortez.

1:03 Welcome back to the Working in a Purpose Program. Thanks for turning again this week. Great to have you. This show has been brought to you with passionate and price since February twenty fifteen. I'm your host, doctor Elisee Cortes. If you don't know, mean we've not met yet before. I'm an organizational psychologist and logo therapist, speaker and author. My team and I at gusto Now help companies to enliveen, and fortify their operations by building a culture and leadership activated by meaning and purpose our missions to help our clients create a destination workplace where people flock to join, are in truth of being motivated to perform at their best, congrown to the floor of potential, and are committed to stay and dynamically deliver on the company's mission, which translates to higher profits for you. You can learn more abo us and now we can work together at gastodashnow dot com or my personal website at Lascortes dot com. With us today is doctor Mahi Ellen Pelitier, who is a leadership psychologist, keynote speaker, executive coach, author and work workplace mental health expert.

1:54 She helps professionals, leaders and teams around the world thrive in the face of challenges and change by translate in psychology research into practical and actionable strategies. She's the author of The Resilience Plan, a strategic approach to optimizing your work performance and mental health. She jo's her name from Canada, doctor Pier. Welcome to Working on Purpose. Ah Elise, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. It's wonderful to have you. I quite enjoyed your book and I've got several pearls that. Of course I didn't know that I needed to know. As I know that you're probably giggling at when I say that. I thought, I, you know, was on top of all this stuff is resilience stuff, but no much to learn. Always for all of us. It is a journey, right it is. And that's why I'm talking about making it a strategic plan, because just like any strategic plan, it evolves over time, right right.

2:47 And so let's let's get into I always like to kind of understand, you know, I'm a meaning and purposecal there's a reason for that. I want to. Understand where your fascination with resilience came from. Why pursue this field? Yes, it's it came because individuals and organizations often wanted to start from a proactive perspective look at mental health, yes, and be reactive as appropriate. And there was an interest in but how can we get ahead of this, how can we increase our baseline? Where do we have agency? What do we know from research can actually make a difference in the see of all the recommendations we hear, and how do we implement any of these things in our lives. So it was from these kinds of questions and also just knowing the significant impact from research and best practice that these actions can have if we implement them.

3:47 Mm hmmm. You know. One of the things I always appreciate about getting to do this program we call you mh from here after we call you myketing is I appreciate very much that I've been doing the show not and a half years, and I, as you know, I read my guest's books cover to cover and preparation for the show and to keep myself learning and growing and reaching and broadening my horizon. So I learned a lot. And I appreciate how you really boiled down this notion you say you can think about your overall resilience as a ratio of your supply versus your demands. That really helps bring it into perspective. Can you kind of layer that a little bit deeper for us? Yes, it is this particular component. I have to say, it is one of the components of the book that has resonated the fastest with the most people.

4:34 And with the book. I have created worksheets that are in the book, but they're also free resources available. We'll have the link in the show notes if you want. But one of those is, yeah, how to explore your actual sources of supply and demand and what happens. Mostly, I got to this because so many people are accomplishing so much daily every day, and we get to point I say we because it also has included me. Over time, we get to a point where if we're asked, oh, what are the demands you're facing, we think about the top two or three things at work that are challenging. And if people are asking us what kinds of things bring you energy? You think about the things you do sometimes and which wish you do.

5:19 You did more than this, but that's what you respond. What I'm saying is all of this is biased. We need a more realistic perspective. List all your demands, the positive and negative ones, the work and the personal ones list, then all your sources of supply, not the sources of supply you wish you had, Like I would love to go for a walk in the evening five days a week, but when's the last time you did this? Oh not in the past two months because it's been so busy. Well, then it does not go on the list. We tend to underestimate the demands we're facing and overestimate our sources of supply, and from this it puts.

6:01 Us in a very biased position where. We think we don't need to do anything to nourish our resilience, right, you know. And it also just got present too. That's interesting here when you start using this idea of the energy, what replenishes your energy. Part of the reason that eye traffic in meaning and purpose, doctor Mahiaen, is that it is one of the simplest ways that I've learned to be able to help people learn to turn themselves on from the inside out. So if we look at meaning from the local therapeutic founday point, it breaks down to three sources, which are really what we pour ourselves into, which I call passion that's important to us that aligns with our values. Will talk about values the experiences that we take, our encounters that are meaningful and valuable to us, and then of course our mindset. And so just teaching people how to tap into you know, go just for a second and bring them a sunset if that's your jam, like it is for me. That's an experience, and that simple little act of plugging into nature in this way and being present it is a tremendous source of energy. And I think you would call that part of your supply.

7:04 So we have an interesting sort of intersection in the work that we do, which I think is pretty fascinating. Yes, And I mean we're both listening to research also, right, so there is it's coming from a common source. And absolutely and this particular angle that you're bringing, this angle of meaning what we connect with, Yes, in what I brought in the book, it's making sure as you're planning your strategic resilience plan that you've reviewed your values. The same way that if we were to create a business strategy about a new product or service launch, we would want this to connect with the values of the organization. Okay, same thing here we're going to create that strategic resilience plan, we need to start from your values. And what's also connecting with what you were talking about just a moment ago, is the fact that in our personal strategic resilience plan, there will be strategic pillars, so directions where we want to invest further.

8:07 For example, I might decide that, yeah, I've. Put most of my energy in work and I'd love to have a bit more enjoyment in my life. So maybe there will be a pillar about what makes me happy, and in that pillar there may be actions like sunsets. Makes me happy. So what this means is, Okay, I need to keep an eye on when is the sun's setting. I kind of inside with the blinds closed and not realizing I need to plan for this moment, even if it takes two minutes. I need to prioritize it. And as I do this, I will enjoy it. And now I'm starting to build that sense that yes, I can take some of these actions that nourish my fulfillment, my happiness, and now I'm in motion.

8:57 I did want to if you would, doctor Marie and talk a little bit about your this resiliency plan, this idea of actually developing a plan, what a concept. Ladies and gentlemen listening to this program, or watching this program, what a concept that you would actually strategize and make a plan for your resiliency. But that's exactly what doctor Marhi Eleen is putting forth. And and just if you would just put together some of those things. You did mention the pillars, but we also talked about values, but you also talked about context. So if you could just sort of sketch a little bit about kind of what what are the componenty aspects of this plan that people would want to consider. Yes, and I did this and this idea of being strategic about our resilience just because so many times I had people in my audiences or in my individual work say I know the things that would be great if I could implement them. I just can't get to implementing these things. And what it really looked like to me was that, yes, there needs to be a strategic approach to this, the same way that in business we would create a strategic plan just launch a new product.

10:01 Because we had this idea. And as we're doing. A strategic plan in a business, we are looking, like we said, at our values and all, and we're looking at context. In a business context, we would be doing a swat analysis we would be looking at what forces are impacting this potential goal. That are internal sources of strengths and weaknesses and external the opportunities and threats. And so I just extracted that tool as well and said, okay, wait on an individual perspective, it's not going to work if all we do is know my values and know that I want to exercise more and try to tell myself to make it happen. I need to be realistic.

10:44 We all need to be realistic about our context right now. What forces are impacting my ability to increase resilience? From an internal perspective, so my natural strengths, what's naturally challenging for me, for example, having a tendency to say yes to everything as an example, and externally, what's going on for example, strength could be there is time there I live in an area where I could go out for a walk. Let's say I don't have to take a car, I can actually just walk. But a challenge maybe that the demands both from my personal life and my work life as such that it never happens.

11:27 It's only once. You've seen this that you can create a plan. So, of course, for someone in this kind of situation, we're not going to say, well, from now on, you will go to the gym five times a week half an hour. It's not possible. It's not going to happen. Maybe over time, but immediately the context is not there. And all this will at this attempt will do is serve as another disappointment, another way that I'm not doing this. So if instead we have this kind of context, a possible pillar, let's say there is a health piller, physical health piller, a possible next action may be more like, well, I can actually download an app that I can do five minutes on once a week. M Now, you see, we're not going to change much from a physical health perspective with an app that I'm using five minutes once a week. But this is better than doing nothing. And what I'm starting to do now is build that sense of self efficacy. I can influence this. And now I'm feeling actually that sense. It feels positive, it feels like I might be able to do this over time. It feels like I might be able to influence other things over time. And now we're on a completely different path already.

12:45 Mm hmm. Yeah, I really appreciate what you're saying. You know, one of the things that we tend to do is Okay, yes, I know I need to build this resilience plan. Let's just go gangbusters, and now we set ourselves up for complete and other failure. Now we feel bad about ourselves, and now we're just back in the slump. And so I really appreciate the idea of just taking these small little steps. And you even say in your book too, that everybody has sixty seconds. We can do a lot in sixty seconds, right, And so, of course, as somebody who stands up in terms of empowerment and and encouragement, I always want to be able to encourage people. If you're not doing something right, now just start the process. Yes, exactly, we need to start somewhere. And sometimes I've had clients say that sometimes it's a shift of how you think about it, because we know that, yes, from a physical health perspective, you would want to do say, half an hour of cardio, for example, And sometimes the thinking is, well, if I can't do half an hour, I will do nothing.

13:41 I'll wait until I have half an hour. But now some of them, more than one actually came to me and said, what has shifted everything for them is they're not doing their five minute cardio for their physical health, They're doing it for their mental health, right, and that then completely makes sense. That is the reason, and it works and they are building from it, and then that's very good. Now we still know from research that yes, ideally, just as a side note, we do want a half hour. That's where we're going to get more of the benefits of the chemicals in the brain that are similar to antidepressants and all that. And to get there we need to start with five.

14:23 Oh, I can appreciate this, Dr Mahie Helen. I broke my foot three months ago, so I'm on. I've been on scooter wrin crutches, and I'm very proud to say that today is the fourth day that I've been walking around the planet without crutches. Oh wonderful. So I have this whole new perspective on bilt feet and mobility and movement, and so just getting back to the gym has been amazing. I'm one of those kind of people that is really quite dangerous. After I've had a couple cups of coffee and all workout in the morning, you know I'm gonna blow your hair back, so look out it. Yes, well, that's a great combination. Sounds like it's it's working for you, it. Does for me. And you know the other thing that I definitely wanted to talk more about, and well, I think we'll go ahead and do this. We'll set it up now, but after the break is just the idea that not only is this idea of creating a strategic resilience plan excellent and important and critical for individuals, it's also really good business. So let's go ahead and we'll cover that after the rank. We'll take our first one.

15:19 I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortees. We've got on the air with doctor Mahi Hemen Pettier, who is a leadership psychologist, keynote speaker, executive coach, author and workplace mental health expert. We've been talking a bit about where her interest with resilience came from, why it's critical today in our overworked times, over scheduled times. After the break, we're going to get into really how this is showing up as how businesses can implement a plan like this, and why it is good business. Stay with us, we'll be right back.

16:03 Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose an inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise A. L Se at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

16:54 Thanks for stating with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host doctor at Least Cortes as I to decicated to help them create a world where people realize their potential at work and are led by inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness, and we do business at better in the world. I continue to research and write my own books, so my last one came out in March of twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose can radically in liven your business and I've wrote to help leaders understand the needs and wants of today's really discerning workforce. And then I offer twenty two best projects to help you build a culture to create that for them. You can learn more about it at a leascoretest dot com or on Amazon where they're listed if you're just joining us. My guest is doctor Mahie Elen Peltier, author of The Resilience Plan, a strategic approach to optimizing your work performance and mental health. So I love this idea most you know, as an organizational psychologist as well. Anything that in our realm where we get to talk about it's good for business, you know, kind of changes the conversation. So let's talk a little bit about how a resilience plan is good for business. And then I really want to get in to the topic of burnout, which is so prevalent today.

18:04 Yes, burnout is. An occupational phenomenon as defined by the World Health Organization. Three main characteristics were exhausted, were cynical, and it's impacting our performance. And it is not a diagnosis itself, right, but it does lead can lead to diagnosis on the mental health side, anxiety and depression for example, and also on the physical health side, like high blood pressure and others. So and we are seeing an increase in a number of areas. Sometimes people will report they're feeling burnt out. Really, what they mean is that they are very exhausted. Even if they're not they don't have the three criteria yet it still very much needs attention and we are seeing very high rates of people reporting this. Now, the burnout piece is does not reside just with the individual or just with the organization. It is in the relationship. What that means is we would not want to say, well, someone's burnt out, it is a weakness that they have as a person, or someone has burned out. It's one hundred percent in the organization. It may or may not be, but very often it's in the relationship. And what this means is the workplace is a system. There is us as individuals, there is the team we're in, there is the overall organization, and there are often actions that can be taken at all these levels if we're going to improve this situation have better mental health and resilience.

19:36 That was incredibly clear and lucid I was so beautiful. Well, let's talk a little bit about why this is good business. I mean when I don't have an hour few if you do either. But it would be interesting to think about, to say, the demands on the business in terms of what does it look like, how does it translate when resilience is absent? What does that? What do we see when resilience is absent? Yes, when I mean in general, for teams to perform well, they're going to need to be have clarity on goals and they're going to need to have psychological safety. And as we are building these two things, we will have more resilience the ability of the team to go through adversity as a team and come out even stronger. And a resilient team is not just a group of resilient people.

20:28 It is the resiliency of the team itself as a group when it is not there. And that's going to be true for the organization as well, but specifically in a team context, which where most of us are operating in. A team that's not resilient will not work together. It's not going to be successful in achieving its goals, or as successful as it could be. Individuals within the team will work will protect themselves individually more than working together as a group. People will not communicate, especially newer members of this team will not talk, and so therefore we will not get great ideas, we will not identify problems before it become bigger, and so overall we're becoming more at risk. We will be less healthy, we will be less prepared for the next challenge that that we can take, and that creates all kinds of problems.

21:23 And so interesting, as you were talking that, one of the things that I'm doing with organizations is helping to develop helping people to access and nurture their capacity to experience really higher the higher emotions male so we might call them the higher attitude will be values. He would have said, things like unity and things like that. And I'm really focused on helping people to experience more awe and wonder and passion, compassion, et cetera, you know, in their everyday in their aready lives, in order for them one to elevate that capacity for that that resilience, but also two to be able to more deeply explis meaning and purpose in their work too. It invariably helps them become more creative as they look for more ways to serve and create new product services for their customers. Because they have compassion for them. And then three to your last point, it helps them develop those higher pro social behaviors where they're wanting to help each other. So there's some just really interesting folks, And you're getting me excited about, you know, just seeing some of the crossover here on.

22:24 It's just such a vitalizing way to live. Yes, very very much so. And we're seeing in the literature and in the practice, and you and I have seen it as well, really that creativity and resilience and psychological safety they go hand in hand. Yes, you know, you're going. To need creativity to get to even better levels of psychological safety, and you're going to need psychological safety in order to increase your creativity as well. And especially as we have even more presence from AI in the work we do and the needs to go through these societal changes in our work, we will want to approach these changes with a lot of communication, a lot of psychological safety, creativity as well, and so investing no matter which door we're using, we need all these pieces to go through this very large change that has started to appear for many, is not there for some and is very present for others.

23:27 So we need to pay attention to the human side there for sure. That's kind of my thing, is it's all about doubling down on humanity and the age of technology. You know, obviously I'm a psychologists. I can't help it, you know, right, But that's what that's my lens. But part of that, you know, lens, of course, is I'm just so dazzled by just you know, the strength of our of our minds, of our thoughts. And you talk about cognitive behavior management in your in your work here, and one of the things that your mind is is we always have control over our thoughts, and we have to watch ourselves talk and watch for possible biases to make better decisions and choices. So can you talk a little bit about how we can need what is cognitive behavior management, how we can start to incorporate it into our resiliency plan.

24:12 Yes. So, one of the theories in psychology that has been researched for decades is cognitive behavior theory, and it has led to the development of cognitive behavior therapy. Many may have heard of CBT okay, And at a high level, what this model reminds us is that as humans, we have thoughts, feelings, and behaviors and the ways we think will have a strong impact on how we feel and how we behave which most of the time works fine, no problem. But sometimes our thinking gets biased. We will tend to go tend to think in all or nothing type of ways. We will tend to minimize a problem or catastrophize another. There are many ways in which we're thinking, and that's normal. I happen to have it. I'm sure you do sometimes as well. But the key thing is that it's not because we have this thought that this is the reality.

25:06 It's a thought we have. What we can do is question that thought or possibly consider thinking other thoughts so as it relates to our resilience to the very big demands we may be facing, the big changes that may be there now or may appear in the near future one example. And we could talk about this. There's many ramification to this overall piece there, but a short recommendation may be as simple as making sure we ask questions. For example, if we catch ourselves thinking in very rigid ways, asking ourselves what else could be going on? Or am I one hundred percent certain of this situation? Or you can even go into managing your thinking in planting some ways of thinking that might be more helpful, for example, deciding to day that for the next couple of months, when a large challenge shows up, you're gonna think and possibly say out loud, because then it may help others. Okay, we have no idea how to solve this right now, and we will find a solution could be as simple as this. And what we're doing there is we're just setting up the brain to go in that direction.

26:22 It's so powerful. You know, it's funny. As you said that, I was just remembering. I'm taking singing classes. I have a vocal coach that I'm working with right now, and he's he's in Nashville and of course in Dallas who do this via zoom And he gives me the prompts and then, you know, I sing something and of course it's not right, and so then he gives me a correction and then he goes, you got this. He does this very this strong head nod, and it's just it communicates like, yeah, okay, he said I got it, So okay, I guess I got it. I'm doing it. But it's amazing, you know when you accept that, you know, in other words, I really want to emphasize and celebrate just how powerful the mind really is and your opportunity to really direct it in a way that's going to serve you and work for you, not against you.

27:06 Agreed, And in the beautiful example you gave just now, part of what happens is when he says you've got this, he's basically planting the thought in your head. I know, it's so beautiful. I told you that's what That was the connection that I got when you said, I'm like, all right, that's exactly what he's doing and it was beautiful. But here's another piece to this that connects with our conversation is that it. Works because you trust. Him, and if it's not, even if he said that, you'd be like, you know, no, it's not gonna work. Right. But the same thing applies in our workplaces. If we're going to be a colleague that others trust, if we're going to be a leaders that is trusted by our peers and people in our teams, then part of what we need to invest in to increase our overall resilience as a team and as an organization is increasing that trust.

28:00 So how do we do this well? In part the good old ways, just like we do with friends and partners, say what you do and do what you say, so you increase that connection over time between the two. But there are fascinating pieces of research. One of them recently, I was looking at is where and they were asking they were comparing behaviors from leaders. So would you get more trust out of. Asking team members to share feedback about your leadership style or by telling your team members the constructive feedback you're working on these things? And people will say, well, maybe both, right, they both sound good in that particular piece of research, and that's from Adam Grant and one of his collaborators.

28:48 What the observed was that actually, just be sharing constructive feedback you're working on was the most powerful way. It does connect with the conversations we're hearing a lot about uh, sharing vulnerability and showing humanity and all these pieces. But part of the reason they suspected the first option did not work so well is that sometimes leaders tend to be defensive. So yes, you're asking for freedback, but you're wanted or not a bit more defensive, and therefore it doesn't help. So looking for ways to build that trust even further will help. The team now and will help the team in moments where they're feeling vulnerable themselves. Then when you say you've got this, it will connect even more.

29:36 Not so powerful, so powerful. Actually, next week my guest is Jeff Wetsler, and we're going to be talking about He's got a whole book that really situates how leaders can anybody can really learn how ask and to really ask people what they're really thinking. I know his book, so you ask, right, and it's it's fabulous. I've read it already. And but there's you know, power to that as leaders to be able to learn how to really get more of that feedback by making it safe, as you say, and making them want to help and not feel like there's going to be a ramification for sharing. You know, constructive feedback is just just think of the world that opens in terms of what you learn about yourself and how you can improve.

30:20 That's right, and that's absolutely true. And I know you've said this earlier. I agree that as we have even more AI collaborations in our work, yes, the human side takes even more of an importance. And the reality is that if we're going to do AI in the most innovative. Ethical way as well. Yes, we will want to have these conversations and the ways in which we'll catch the ethical angles that the blind spots is when people share their thoughts. So positioning the humans here so that we will hear their fantastic thoughts in person active is possibly one of the most important things we can do as leaders.

31:04 It's very exciting. I just love it all. Right, let's grab our last break. I'm your host, doctor release Cortez. We are on the year with doctor Mahitt Jying Belthier, who is a leadership psychologist, keynotes speaker, executive coach, author, and workplace mental health expert. We've been talking a bit about some of the components of resiliency plan why it's good business. After the break, we're going to really spend that time focused really on helping how to build team resilience and what are some of the actions that leaders can take to build it as well. Deal with us. We'll be right back, Doctor Release.

31:49 Court haz is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite Alease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise alisee at elisecortes dot com.

32:33 Now back to working on Purpose. Thanks for sting with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I am your host, doctor Elise Cortes. I mentioned in the last break that my last book came out in March or twenty twenty three. It's called a Great Revitalization. What I did for you is I built you a simple three page assessment that you can pull off my website to determine the extent to which your organization is operating for today's standard. You can find it at Gusto dashnow dot com. If you are just now joining us. My guest is doctor Marie Elaine Baytia, author of the Resilience Plan, a strategic approach to optimizing your work performance and mental health. So for this last section, I really wanted to focus specifically on the world work, since that's just both of our jams, and I really want to start with this idea that you have in your book, you know, you say building team resilience. Resilience is a constellation of behaviors that show us to persist and move forward through adversity and to grow. What I love about that is I love again I'm focused on, you know, what's the goodness on the other side of that, And certainly we all understand how adversity is everywhere and that it does allow us it affords us a tremendous opportunity to grow. So I like how you've positioned this notion of you know, growth and adversity with resilience. So can you speak a little bit about how we can really start building team resilience through this lens.

33:55 Yes, there are a number of ways. I think the first piece is, even if all we do as leaders is add resilience on the agenda we have regular team conversations can be an agenda item, and it can be as simple as saying I was listening to doctor Elise's podcast and I want to make sure you here know all of us that we want to invest in our resilience as a team. I'll come back next time with more ideas, but I wanted to just put it on the agenda because this is part of what we all need to pay attention to even more as we continue to move forward. Could be as simple as this your own words, but it's on the agenda. Then it will be about investing in various ways in our particular resilience as a team here. So, for example, it could involve, okay, having a conversation about if we look at the next calendar year, where is the next moment where we know I mean there will be lots of demands that are not predictable, but some from many are. We know that the year end is one of them. We know that this season is one of them. We know that different points in time will be related to even higher demands.

35:11 Can we shift from our usual oh. This is now the time, we'll just put the head down. No one has a life and we try to survive it to instead talking about it in advance and seeing what can we put in place before that phase, what can we put in place during that phase and after to help navigate all this even better for us as a team. That could be a conversation. Another example could be when we have gone through a demanding time. Most people now will do a post event conversation of you know, what can we learn from it? That's great, okay? Can we also in that.

35:54 Post event confirmation conversation look for as many people to think as possible. Can we look for those within the team who were particularly fantastic in this phase, not just those that went above and beyond and worked so many hours, those that in all this managed to still go to their child's soccer game in the next state and we all supported this. And look for those that are around us, not in our team, that did only a small thing that you know, we thank them on the spot kind of thing, but let's go back and really thank them and raise it with their overall team, their leader, because this is an example of recognition, and we know recognition feeds psychological safety. And what we're doing is now we're building a culture where we pay attention to these things, we nourish it, and that will.

36:57 Help us over time. So these are some examples of actions we want to consider beautiful. So a quick little side note here before we get really into some of the leader actions. I just realized I have to ask you this. I know you've been practicing in the space for over twenty years. Correct, that's true. Well, I'm wondering in your perspective. One of the things I was so blown back by was when the pandemic had suddenly we were talking about mental health, like we had never talked about mental health. And did you find that to be true? I mean, that's to me. It was like it just showed up everywhere where. I had never. Heard those conversations like that before. Yes, it's very true. It did become much more on the forefront. And I mean because the pandemic was so demanding on the mental health, on everyone's mental health for some people in a very significant way, for some moderate, for some people just a little bit. But it became on the radar for many more people with the pandemic, with the work from home, with the various strategy tragedies that were part of this overall situation. So yes, it became on the radar and much more so. That is one positive out of this. But now it.

38:14 Has not solved. You could think, well, it was so much on the radar that burnout rates are decreasing or that psychological challenges are decreasing. No, they're not, because there are other demands coming in. But we are talking more about it, yes, I think, And that's in part where the book comes in, where I thought, okay, people were literally coming and telling me, we know all the things. It used to be that I would talk to audiences and would inform them of the kinds of things that would improve resilience. Now I don't need to do this. It would be a bad idea if I went in with my with that main piece of information. The challenge is not there anymore. It's an implementing.

38:57 Okay. So I think what we'll do was maybe at the very end, we'll hit the implementing piece. Whatever. What we want to do next is you give some fantastic actions that leaders can take to start to really develop a culture that nurtures resilience. And I want to hit as many of them as we can here so our listeners and viewers can literally walk away with something actual they can put it in place tomorrow. So just starting simply with sharing with your colleagues, you're being able to make it safe and encourage sharing with your colleagues or your team, your emotions both positive and negative. A lot of leaders have. Grown in their career at a time where this was not very much part of how a leader was right.

39:44 The leader was turned towards others and pushing forward and all this, and was encouraged to show an image of only strength. Okay, and now we are told, yes, we should need to show that vulnerability. Many people still don't like it. It does not curs fond with how they feel or how they want to be seen. So what's important with this here is none of us want to do anything that. Actually would be completely not related to us. In a truthful way. So what you want is to just share honestly what you're experiencing. So it may be that this weekend you made sure you went for your bike ride with your club or with someone or on your own, whatever, and you're showing up on Monday at work and people are saying, what did you on the weekend?

40:37 You could just say I went for my bike ride. You could also say I went for my bike ride because I need it. Whenever I do this, it gives me the energy I need, It gives me a space to relax my brain from all the demands of last week, and allows me to be ready for the demands of this week. And if I didn't do this, I probably would reach here with a much lower level of energy. So that could be a way to express it. Yeah, and that feeds into one of the other pieces that you have in your book here. Another another action, which is to share your resilience strategies. And so, just like you said, sharing, this is how I'm going about, you know, taking blowing steam off, making sure that I'm taking care of myself. Oh, I could do that. I could do that. That's a great idea, right, I think that's fantastic. Another one that you have here that I think is pretty interesting is inviting conversations around the thirteen main factors associated with psychological health at work and how you can actually improve them as a team. I have that in other parts of my notes. But do you have maybe a few of those factors printed in your mind? Yes, Okay, go for it.

41:49 Yes, yes. So one of them is recognition. We talked about this one earlier, so that can be a very easy that's one. That's the one that number one we know from research actually contributes to decreasing burnout raids. It's not the only variable. There are many others obviously, but that's one of them, and this one is beautiful because we don't need approval, budget or a lot of time. All I can say, for example, is spontaneously say at least I'm already enjoying this conversation because I know you're asking questions that you really care about, and you know people you work with care about and that just makes this conversation even more enjoyable for me. That was simple to me, like three seconds and mean it. That's easy. So recognition is one of them. Another one, and that's also one to keep in mind as AI comes in the workplace involvement. Sometimes as leaders, we've done this before, we have a solution for this problem that just was brought to us in the team conversation. Instead of providing the solution you think you have, how about asking the team what are your thoughts about this and what you're doing this?

43:00 Well? Number one, if you've done this before, you know you might be surprised. They may have better ideas than whatever your thinking. Hello, right, that there's a reason you hire it everyone, so that but also what you're creating is involvement. People have a voice and you're sharing a clear message that the culture in this team is that we want to hear all those voices and some people will share it there, some people could send a note later. We're flexible on how we're even bringing our voices. But that's another example involvement. Another one is it's a big topic, but still I'll say it is paying attention to workload because it is an area where if anyone's going to say something's challenging at work, it often is their workload.

43:51 So it may be a situation and even as leaders we know, but it we almost don't want to open that conversation. Can of warm. Here's the thing. We are not looking to change ninety nine percent of the workload. What we want to do is go find a small opportunity. Let's talk about this one process that we have as a team, and as a team, let's identify one part of this process that generates stress. For example, an important part that does not happen often, but when it does, no one remembers how to deal with this because we don't do it often and its high visibility or high consequence. Ah well, maybe we need a process to support this better. Maybe it is written notes. Maybe we always do this part to people together whatever the solution is going to be, and then people will notice how the workload stayed the same, but because we facilitated this irritant, then it feels very different and we work together on it. We were in so all these beautiful aspects.

45:02 So these are some examples that that recognition, that involvement and pay attention to workload. Mm hmm. And along that line, one of the other actions that you recommend in the book is to work with your team to identify challenging events in advance, manage them during, and recover after. So, hey, we know this big thing is coming, this big mergers coming, this big project. Let's not we know we got to take care of each other. I think that in just raising the awareness and having a plan in place to do that just I can't imagine too many organizations do that today, except unless they're working with you. Of course, yes that's. Right, or they've taken my course at the university, but it's you know, or the thing is, we need to step back a little bit. We need to creating our plan, our next action, our next improvement does not take that much time, but we need to step back to identify it and then implement it, and we're not looking Keep in mind again, lives are full and overflowing already, so we're not going to look at implementing ten things. We're looking at one in a reasonable, absolutely doable way. I often say, if you think you could do it in the next two business days, and you're fairly confident, like eighty five percent sure you can do this or more, great, if you're thinking, well, it's fifty to fifty.

46:26 Scale it down. What is the first step related to this? Maybe it isn't yet to fix the next demanding event. Maybe it's sitting down and identifying the next three for the next year, just that actually requires is the one thing that's doable and then you build from there. M hm, why don't we do this? Why don't we just talk a little bit, because we're getting close to the end here, if maybe you can just spend a minute or so just talking a little bit about implementation. You've mentioned that you kind of dangled that before and I had you stop for some Can you talk a little bit about what implements which looks like. It's about when building your back to your own strategic resilience plan, but it's true for your team resilience, who are organizational for that matter. I mean my book I focus a bit more on the individual part, but knowing that it is part of the system. But that implementation key here is to make sure that your pillars. Of course, by then your pillars are aligned with your values and your context. But the actions you're identifying under each pillar.

47:32 Need to be very doable. They need to be so small soluble again that you can implement them in the next couple of days. So let's say someone realized their values involved work, influence, power, family relationships, and they realized that in their demands, they have lots of work demands, they work from home a lot of the time, and supply they wanted to put family time, but they couldn't because it's not happening very okay, So maybe one of their pillars will be family. Okay, now you see where this is going. We're not going to put an action here that is to spend four days a week full time with my family, right, it probably is not realistic. What it may mean, however, is Okay, if I'm working from home and I'm not in a meeting or a podcast and my door's open, that means people can come in and if someone comes in, I will create a rule for myself that I have to stand up and walk.

48:32 Outside of my office to talk to them. Not hands on the keyboard, head turned, trying to finish something while we're semi paying attention. It's a small action, but now each time you'll do it, it will be aligned with your values. So a lot of it has to do with It. Becomes easy to implement because it was linked to your context, what is doable, your own values and your real situation. And now we're moving. Okay, what a beautiful way to close. We we just ran to the into the clock right there with that note that is you. You got him into action. I'm so happy to know you, to to learn from you, to celebrate you and share you with my listeners across the world. I'm working on purpose, doctor Marie Helene. Thank you for being working on purpose.

49:18 Oh, doctor Eleise, thank you very much. Listeners and viewers, you're going to want to learn more about this remarkable woman, her work as a workplace mental health expert, or her in her book, The Resilience Plan, So check out her website. It's doctor Marie dash Helene dot com. Let me spell that for you. It's d R M A R I E dash H E L E n E dot com, doctor Marie Helene dot com. Last week, if you missed the live show we Can you can always catch it be recorded podcast. We were on air with Andrew C. M Cooper, a millennial attorney, talking about his book The Ethical Imperative, Leading with Conscience to shape the future of business. He gave us a rousing invitation to do business that serves its highest good amongs, stakehold and reaches into otherwise forgotten communities to build them up.

50:04 Very inspiring. Next week will be on there Jeff Wesler talking about his book Ask Tap into the hidden wisdom of people around you for unexpected breakthroughs in leadership in life. He will teach us how to learn to make it comfortable for people to tell you what they really think and know without fear of your reaction or consequences, opening up a wealth of vital feedback you'd never otherwise obtain. See you there, and remember the work is at least a third of our lives and one of the best needs of adventures of reasoning, realizing our potential and making the impact we create. So let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose, featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance, and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's Work on Purpose.