On Coaching Men to Greater Connection, Success, and Happiness

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The topics and opinions expressed in the
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Any questions or comments should be directed
to those show hosts. Thank you for

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choosing W FORCY Radio. What's working
on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we

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ponder the answer to this question.
People ache for meaning and purpose at work,

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to contribute their talents passionately and know
their lives really matter. They crave

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being part of an organization that inspires
them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such
a force for good in the world,

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elevating humanity. In our program,
we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher

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in this world we all want working
on Purpose. Now, here's your host,

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Doctor Release Cortez. Welcome back to
the Working and Purpose Program. Exter

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tuning in this week. Great to
have you. I'm your host, Doctor

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Lease Cortes joining you live from Dallas
homebase for me. If we've not met

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yet before, you don't know me. I'm a management consultant, organizational local

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therapist, speaker and author. My
team and I, at least Cortes and

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Associates help companies enliven their operations by
articulating their purpose and building inspirational leaders and

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cultures activated by needing and purpose to
turn those companies from a flatline EKG to

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a vibrant workplace. There, people
are intrinsically motivated to perform with their best,

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grow into their fullest potential, and
are committed to stay and help you

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deliver on the company's mission. You'll
learn more about us and how we can

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work together at a last quartz dot
com. Now let's set in. Today's

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program with us is doctor John Schinner, who coaches men to greater success and

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happiness at work and at home.
He recently received the Award for Excellence in

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Healthcare Leadership in two twenty two and
Best Executive Coach in Danville for twenty twenty.

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His areas of expertise include high performance, stress management, man box culture

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of psychology, anger management, and
creating happy, thriving relationships. Doctor John

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also hosts The Evolved Caveman podcast to
coach men to find success and happiness.

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We're talking today about some of the
challenges men facing today's changing society and how

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doctor John helps them through to growth
and greater fulfillment. You joine to today

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from Danville, California, outside of
San Francisco. Doctor John, Welcome to

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Working on Purpose, Doctor Lees.
How are you great to see you.

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Well, I'm suddenly better now that
I've got your company. Thank you.

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So it's great to be on the
other side of the mic with you,

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and I loved being on your program. Thanks for having me. Yeah,

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yeah, it really was. It
was so great. So you know,

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what a great topic, one of
my favorite topics of men, So we

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get to talk about that today.
But I wanted to start with your podcast.

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And what a great name, the
Evolved cave Man, right, I

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mean, it's just wonderful and in
your coaching and here you are out to

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help men to experience more connection and
happiness. So at first I need to

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know of where did you get the
idea to actually start the show in the

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first place, and what are you
hoping to contribute with your show? Well,

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it's interesting, yeah, there's a
story. I actually went to a

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Dan Millman retreat in Costa Rica and
I went to a sound meditation, which

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I had never done before, and
I went with my fiance and it's you

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know, she, the lady leading
the meditation, has like sound bowls and

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like shamanic drums and shamonic chimes and
all these kind of cool esoteric instruments,

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and she kind of had us do
this deep relaxation and then she said,

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you know, you're you're entering a
forest and there's an elk there waiting to

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greet you, and you climb on
the elk's back and then she kind of

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lets you go wherever your mind is
going to take you. So the stage

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is set and then your mind kind
of takes over. And in my mind's

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eye, the elk took me through
the forest, over a creek and to

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a cave and I got off,
went into the cave and in the back

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of the cave was a treasure your
chest, and in the treasure chest was

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a headset, a microphone, and
a laptop. And I thought to myself,

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oh shit, I gotta do a
podcast. So it could have been

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called the Reluctant Podcaster because I wasn't
you know. I was a little nervous

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honestly to do it, especially talking
to men right about things like masculinity and

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psychology and emotion and you know those
are those are a little bit dicey topics

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out there at present. And I
also felt an obligation, as I've been

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working with men for twenty plus years
to try to help them evolve past where

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we had been socialized, and that
that all speaks to that man box idea.

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Now I have to go back here, were there any like mind altering

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drugs involved in this experience? Here? I was just just pure not at

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that time, Okay, I was
totally sober. Okay, good um.

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And you know here's the thing,
is the thing the insights that we can

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we get sometimes high on purpose.
Right, It's just it's fantastic drug,

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this purpose stuff, so very interesting
that you got led the way that you

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did. Um. Okay. So
now, but I want to situate you

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know, there's there's a lot of
stuff going on in the world. We

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see women making significant gains and education, career advancement and pay and you know

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what I'm wondering about. And I
have a few conversations with men not like

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you do. But what I'm wondering
about is what are your thoughts are and

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how men can adjust this change,
to adjust to this changing social landscape,

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will also maintain their own sense of
identity and purpose. There's a lot of

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shift happening. Yeah, and you
put the F in that word. I

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really like that. Um. I
think, you know, it's interesting because

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I think since the seventies, things
have been evolving for women. You know,

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ever since the advent of the pill, which gave women more reproductive freedom.

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I think since the increase of women
working in the workforce giving them more

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financial freedom, there's been some big
changes. And I think rightfully so.

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And I think there's this is going
to be an open simplication, but I

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think there's two camps of men.
There's one camp of men that want things

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to go back to the way they
were in the nineteen fifties, and then

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I think there's another set of men
that are behind those forward, forward progress

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that women have and are a supportive
of it and are trying their best to

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play a support of an encouraging role. It's it's it's strange to me because

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I don't at some level understand this
whole desire of let's go back to the

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nineteen fifties where women are barefoot and
pregnant in the kitchen. I think you

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know, to me, once the
genie's out of the bottle, it's out.

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There's no putting the genie back in. And so to try to force

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control over women's bodies, to try
and tell women what they can and can't

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do, is it strikes me as
odd, strikes me as fear based.

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Yeah. So now I have to
ask you, do you have any sense

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for their proportions there? How many? How many men do you think would

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would like to see us go back
to the nineteen fifties, and how many

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are more willing to address and be
in today's camp? I would say it's

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if I had to guess, and
this is not based on anything, my

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guests would be about thirty to forty
percent are looking to go backwards in time,

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Okay, it could be as high
as fifty percent. And then you've

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got another fifty to sixty percent that
understand that the only way through is to

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go forward and are looking for ways
to incorporate that into their own identity,

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which is changing, which has to
change as a result. And you know,

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so I think back to your original
question. I think the first step

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is always self awareness. So I
think you know, Tasha Yurick's research,

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which I love, is shows that
you know of us will report that we

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are highly self aware, and in
fact it's about ten to fifteen percent,

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yeah, which you know is scary
for those you know eighty eighty five percent

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that think they're highly self aware and
are not. That to me is a

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recipe for disaster. And so I
think, you know, if if we

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look at self awareness as a foundational
skill and then look at Okay, this

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is where we are right now in
time, this is where we are in

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terms of culture, this is where
we are in terms of you know,

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socio political progress. How can I
best adjust to these changes so that I

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can better integrate into the social and
cultural milieu. M You know how as

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you're speaking this, doctor John,
I'm really present to you. This last

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book that I wrote, I just
wrote, The Great Revialization, is really

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about helping companies to get present to
what's going on in today's workforce and how

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you need to really about based change
and elevate your practices to be able to

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keep them fulfilled and want to stay. And of course the same thing is

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happening. What you're talking about,
all this culture change in the world,

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It does require all of us to
change the way that we're interacting with each

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other in the world. But I
also want to recognize that it's got to

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be really unsettling for men. It's
got it's a it's a lot of change,

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and you know where there's a lot
of you know, people really supporting,

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you know, the changes in the
evolution for women, and so that

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all the reason I wanted to be
able to have you on the show to

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talk about and help us understand what's
it like for men, you know,

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in this time. Yeah, thank
you for the question. I think it's

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a really good question because I think
it's scary as hell for a significant proportion

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of men. And I think that
proportion of men and this is a generalization,

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but I think it holds true that
many of these men that are scared

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by these changes are also under educated, underemployed, perhaps blue collar workers that

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fear their jobs getting taken or perhaps
have already lost their job, have been

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laid off, and they see women
as a threat to future employment prospects.

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On one level, I think um
they see women potentially as a threat to

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the traditional male power paradigm, and
so I can see them seeing women as

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a threat to them on a number
of levels. And it's it's I mean,

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I can go different ways with it, but I think it generally comes

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in a package deal in terms of
I think there's so many of us that're

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so fearful of change, and so
many men that I've talked to that are

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kind of the attitude of love me
as I am. Don't try and change

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me. I'm happy the way things
are. But you know what they don't

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really realize is they're not very happy
even They're just scared. And I get

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that. I mean, I've been
scared of change as well in my lifetime.

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You know what I find fascinating this
conversation, John, is I've had

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another conversation for somebody about change and
what I what I what I've kind of

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come to is change is really really
something that we try to stay away from

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special we don't if we don't know
where it's going, if we're going or

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for losing something. But you know, for example, imagine this change.

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Imagine I go from driving my little
cute you know, Infinity to twenty five

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today to a really nice Mercedes tomorrow. That kind of change I can live

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with, right, but that's not
the kind of change we're talking about here.

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And and I really, you know, I appreciate how you just presence

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for us, just how this must
be arresting for a lot of men.

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Yeah, I think. I mean, you know, I've had clients that

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are male white supremacists, and you
know, to try and speak to them

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and get them to understand just that
change is possible and that you know,

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you might be happier if you look
at the world through different lens, through

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a different paradigm, if you're not
afraid of large groups of people. Well,

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let's say, if you don't hate
large groups of people. And so

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I think, you know, society
in general has become incredibly divided for a

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number of reasons. And the optimistic
side of me says that it will get

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better, and I think in the
long run it will. The pessimistic side

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of me says it's getting worse,
and in the short run, I think

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it will. M M. Before
you, I'm tactically optimistic, and strategically

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I'm tactically well short term, short
term pessimistic, long term optimistic. Okay,

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So before you even utter what you
were saying, or what I would

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occurred to me is you're you're something
of a shepherd, John, right,

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You're you're shepherding a way forward and
kind of you know, gently guiding people

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into a hopefully a future that's better
for them. I hope, so pretty

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important. I just I just look
at it as a teacher, mum,

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and I think you know, we
and you know, one of the things

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I talk about with men is this
whole man box notion. May I may

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I explain that? Yeah. I
wanted to hit that because it's it's integral

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to me, and it's the idea
of how we are raised as boys and

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what we are taught about what it
means to be a quote real man.

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And you know, I've had a
lot of men tell me, well,

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my dad wasn't like this, or
my mom wasn't like that. Like,

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okay, fair enough. They don't
need to be Now, some people do

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get these rules from their mom or
dad, particularly dad, but not everyone

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does. But what I can tell
you is you sure as he'll get it

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from peers, friends and media think
movies, TV, social media at this

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point. But the rules are something
like be competitive, be aggressive, don't

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back down, dominate women, be
self reliant, be the provider for the

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family. And you know some of
the two of the bigger ones are don't

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be homosexual and don't be feminine.
And when we're growing up, think middle

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school or high school. But this
stuff begins at the age of five,

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when we get into kindergarten typically,
and you're not at a lesser level,

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but it builds. But if how
are we for swearing on this show,

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Yeah, go for it. Okay, So I forgive me any advance for

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these slurs, but this is what
we get. So when we're in middle

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school or high school, if we
show too much sadness or fear in front

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of others, typically at some point
we will get something like, dude,

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stopping such a pussy, don't be
a little bitch, don't be a little

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girl. Now there's other insults that
can go in there, but interestingly,

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those are all the height the epitome
of the feminine. The message there is

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don't be feminine. And I don't
think it takes getting those messages many times

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two, three, four before we
go, wow, I am never showing

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that again. That's embarrassing, that's
humiliating, it's painful, and you jump

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back in the man box. On
the other side of the coin, if

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you show too much joy, love, romanticism, excitement, flamboyance, god

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forbid, someone will say something like, dude, don't be so gay,

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don't be a fat again. You
don't need to get those that many times

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before you're like, wow, I'm
never showing that again. And so then

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the question is what are we left
with that we can publicly display emotionally without

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fear of humiliation. I would argue
it's three things. Lust because if I'm

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like, oh, look at she's
so hot, I do her, that

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signals to you that I'm straight.
There's stress because if I tell you how

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stressed I am, it says I'm
busy or important. And the big one

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is anger, some degree of anger, irritated, frustrated, annoyed, ray,

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enraged. And the problem for us
men is that the vast majority of

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our emotions gets funneled through that anger
lens. And I can tell you that

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I've seen in twenty five plus years
of working with men, I've seen embarrassment

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flip to anger, and considered,
we're talking about a third of a second

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flip. So embarrassment flip to anger, guilt, shame flip to anger,

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anxiety can come out as anger fear, and then we know that male depression,

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the hallmark of it is irritability,
impatience, and little bits of anger

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sprinkled in, so you know,
we then we get into a relationship as

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we get older and our to emotion
and we know that we have signature emotions.

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No psyche has shown that we have
these primary or signature emotions inside out.

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Kind of use that idea as well, and we have these go to

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emotions, and so we get into
a relationship and we get into arguments with

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our loved one. And right now, women in the US are initiating divorce

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seventy five percent of the time,
and the biggest complaint I hear from them

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is I can't connect with my man. Well, that makes complete sense.

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And here's the kicker to it.
Men, if you're listening, it's not

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your fault. In other words,
you didn't ask to be socialized like this.

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It just happens. And I really
like that idea of it's not our

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fault. However, I do believe
it's our responsibility to evolve beyond that socializing,

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beyond how we were socialized, to
empower people to also to evolve Okay,

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so let's grab our first. I
can let our listeners and viewers just

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think about a few of the things
you said. They were very powerful.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez, look on you. With doctor John

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Jenner, who is the host of
the Evolved Caveman podcast. We've been talking

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a bit about just how society has
been changing and for women and how let's

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helped women. We're now talking about
what's like from men. Stay what this?

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We'll be right back. Doctor Elise
Quartz is a management consultant specializing in

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meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker
and author, she helps companies visioneer for

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a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that

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elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment
within the workforce. To learn more or

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to invite a lease to speak to
your organization, please visit her at Elise

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00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:59.559
Cortez dot com. Let's talk about
how to get your employees working on purpose.

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00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:08.279
This is working on purpose with doctor
Elise Cortez. To reach our program

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00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.759
today or to open a conversation with
a lease, send an email to a

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00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:18.000
lease a l se at Elise Cortez
dot com. Now back to working on

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purpose. Thanks for staying with us
before we get back to the program.

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Seems a little bit soft and light
to tell you this at this juncture of

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the conversation, but I do want
to announce to you that I have been

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on a Purpose and Joy Tour.
This is a collaboration with Joilie, an

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00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.839
organization that teaches mindful practices to build
happy, healthy, resilient world, and

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00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.720
my firm, Elise Cortesse and Associates
that activates meaning and purpose in company culture

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00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.960
and leadership to increase fulfillment, performance
and retention. Together, we are going

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00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:52.480
to thirty three cities across the United
States, starting in Dallas in March and

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00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:56.000
finishing in Virginia Beach in October,
to find our tribe and build a community

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00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.599
of people who seek to elevate their
lives and businesses by cultivating meaning, purpose

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00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:02.720
and joy. I will be dropping
in on John in June when I get

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to the San Francisco area. He
was good enough to say yes, I'll

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00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.519
take your visit, so you can
find a list of cities that we're coming

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00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.400
to and find your own at Gusto
dashnow dot com. Very excited to be

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00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.119
with you in your own backyard.
Check out the events, mark your calendar,

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00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.599
register and I'll see you there if
you're just now joining the program.

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My guest says doctor John Schinner,
who coaches men to greater success and happiness

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at work and at home. His
areas of expertise include high performance, stress

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management, man box culture, positive
psychology, anger management, and creating happy,

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thriving relationships. I'm your host,
doctor Elie's Cortez, so I did

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want to see you help us.
The man box culture thing is really really

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powerful, and I have to say, I think it's an utter accomplishment and

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achievement when men do find a way
out of that box, really a plot

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and appreciate that work. I'm wondering, John, if this is also related

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to this issue that we hear about
of toxic toxic masculinity. Is this the

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same sort of realm or is it
something different? Yeah, I don't use

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the phrase toxic masculinity because it shuts
down men. And what I'm trying to

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do is get men to listen and
consider, which I like, Which is

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why I like the idea that the
whole man box socialization process is not our

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fault, but it is our responsibility
as far as I mean. I guess

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another way you could look at it
is restrictive masculinity, kind of the traditional

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form of masculinity. And you know
the rules that I mentioned before, if

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you look at them individually, there's
some good and some bad to them,

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and you know there might be individual
interpretation as well. But like being a

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provider for the family in general,
that's a good value. And what happens,

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however, in terms of what I
see, is that we go to

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work and we start to provide for
the family and the people we love the

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most. But over ten twenty thirty
years, that value gets morphed and perhaps

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a bit cancerous. And we get
so much of our identity from being at

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work, and we know it's expected
of us from work. We get our

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ego stroked at work, were praised
at work, and we come home and

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many of us don't quite know what
we're doing to the same extent, and

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then people are annoyed at us,
and we begin to spend more and more

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time at work, And if time
and attention are the currency of relationship,

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then we're spending all our money at
work, and you know, our spouse

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and our kids are getting increasingly annoyed
and resentful of us. And I've seen

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that dynamic over and over and you
know, just to give you one more

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example, self reliance really strong value, and self reliance taught to men,

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and in general that's a pretty good
value. But if you look at either

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end of the extreme of the polls
of that poll, it's not healthy.

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So I don't want to be completely
without self reliant. I don't want to

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be completely dependent on others. Nor
do I want to be one hundred percent

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self reliance, which a lot of
men that I talk to really tend towards

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that that end. And this becomes
a problem when health issues arise, when

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depression arises, when anxiety arises,
and men refuse to seek out assistance.

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Just to give you two examples,
Yeah, this is just such a rich

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conversation, John, So related to
that, I have to imagine, one

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of the things I came across in
my research for this conversation is that another

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issue that many men faces, that
sense of isolation and loneliness. So here

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you are, you know, you're
you know, we've really found our way

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that if we if we are just
working, we're disconnecting from our loved ones

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and such, and now put ourselves
into another box, you know, a

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quiet you know box on our own
devastating well, I mean the first part

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of that is we're not socialized to
excel in relationship and the way that we

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grow up in the man box.
If you think about for those of the

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mail listeners that you have out there, the way that we would interact in

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high school, for example, is
put downs, one upmanship, sarcasm and

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you know, maybe jokes about your
mother. But there's no depth there,

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there's no vulnerability, there's no authenticity, and a lot of men continue that

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throughout the lifespan. And so again, the fact that we're not that great

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in relationship isn't really our fault.
We just need to find ways to move

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past it, or at least have
different gears in which we can switch into.

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But with my clients, and I
think this is true throughout the world,

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I've seen increasingly the older we get, most of us, for most

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of us, the more lonely we
get, and the less relationships we have.

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And you know, there's a number
of reasons that we lose relationships.

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People move people to people get divorced, there's fights or disagreements. But also

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we're not very good at maintaining long
term relationships. And I saw this in

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myself when I had friends from college
that I hadn't reached out to for many

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years. And part of it was
I was just really busy with my family

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and my work life and my kids. And then I got divorced and then

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I was like, oh, I
need to like recultivate some of these friendships.

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And I remember I called up a
friend and we set up lunch,

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and we got to lunch and he's
like, hey, you know, I

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got to ask you, like,
how come you didn't call more often?

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And I was like, dude,
the phone rings both ways, Like I'm

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pretty sure my phone is not the
only one that has numbers. But you

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know, so we'll externalize too,
and that's part of that anger dynamic,

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right, even if we're a little
bit annoyed, And when we externalize,

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we put the blame onto the other
party and we completely fail to see our

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part in that dynamic. And that's
dangerous as hell, because if you look

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at any of the like personality disorders, even like narcissism, they do the

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same thing. And what it does, the reason it's dangerous is it completely

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cuts us off from the possibility of
self reflection and growth, and that's a

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huge problem and it's super convenient too. Wow, you know this is this

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really intense and I am really listeners
in your earth? Is this not just

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opening your mind in your heart too? You know what it is to be

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a man in today's world, and
you know how we can support the efforts

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on both sides of the aisle.
So that brings me to the next sort

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of related topic that, of course
we have to talk about it, and

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you've sort of been talking about it
already here. But this notion that men

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are typically stereotyped is being emotionally closed
off and unwilling to talk about their feelings

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at all. So I'm wondering,
how do you help your clients break down

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these stereotypes and encourage them to be
more open about their feelings. Are their

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emotions? Oh okay, that's a
that's a tough one. So part of

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it is, you know, I
do coaching, not therapy, although I

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have a PhD in psychology, and
the difference, one of the main differences

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to me between those two is that
I do a lot of teaching versus you

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know, gee, how do you
feel about that? And I think that

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we men need to be taught a
number of things, self awareness, how

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to get out of our head and
into our body, so how to stop

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over identifying with the thinker in our
head, which most of us do,

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but how to pay attention to what's
going on in your body so that you

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can figure out what it is you
are actually feeling, so that you can

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begin to label those feelings and then
speak to them. I also will share

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a lot of how I'm feeling or
where I've struggled, whether it's on the

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podcast or with my clients, and
that's taking uh, you know, I

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think I started doing that at like
forty maybe, And part of what I'm

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doing when I do that is I'm
trying to give other men permission to feel

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because I think that there's not many
role models out there that are masculine and

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emotionally aware and comfortable with their feelings
that you know, it's not how we're

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brought up. If you look at
you know, Vin Diesel or Arnold Schwarzenegger,

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or you know, any of the
action heroes in movies for example,

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and so you know, and part
of it also is to be non judgmental

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when they do begin to share back
what they are feeling and then teach them

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how to go about dealing with those
emotions. You're in my ending me,

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John. I in twenty sixteen,
when I was going through my divorce,

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I took a job with another managament
consultancy firm called Insignium and that is co

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founded by Nathan Rosenberg and Schiapina.
And I wanted to join the company,

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John, because I went up there
to visit the organization and one of their

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summits they were hosting, and Nathan
gets up. And Nathan is a man's

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man, and he's a very he's
very strong, he has a strong presence,

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and you know, he has a
look, and he's very very smart,

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very logical, very very very well
educated. And he got up and

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stood in front of the crowd of
people that were seated for this summer let's

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call about one hundred and twenty five
people, and his eyes filled with tears

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and he said, he said,
it's great to have you here. This

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is really an emotional experience for me. And you could tell that he was

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actually crying. Yeah, And it
was so beautiful. I mean, every

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single person was like leaning into this
man. They had hit full wrapped attention.

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And I at that moment when I
want to work here, I want

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to work for this organization. And
it was such a beautiful display of you

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know, kind of a completeness,
right, and very compelling. So I'll

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put that out there is something that
I probably will never forget. Yeah,

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that speaks to vulnerability, right,
and the power of emoting. And I

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mean, I remember I was doing
a radio show in the San Francisco Bay

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area back in two thousand and six, and you know, coming out of

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Cow, it had been drilled into
me that the only thing you can share,

399
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.000
or everything you share, has to
be backed up in research studies,

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data, and so I started doing
that and I realized pretty quickly, like,

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wow, this sucks. In other
words, the study could have been

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amazing and the data could have been
really powerful, but all I was doing

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00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:41.799
was speaking to their cognitive mind,
to the thinker. And that doesn't motivate

404
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:47.400
anyone to do anything. It does
not motivate you to make any behavior change

405
00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:52.200
whatsoever. In order to have a
chance at motivating behavior change, you've got

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00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:55.960
to speak to the emotional heart,
and that means you've got to learn.

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00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:56.920
I had to learn to emote.
I had to learn how to tell a

408
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.480
story, which I think is a
great way to connect and teach and inspire.

409
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.640
I had to learn how to tell
a joke and a vacuum. You

410
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:08.640
know, There's there's skills that can
be learned that are quite powerful, and

411
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:14.000
one of those was being vulnerable and
being honest about how I felt and how

412
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:19.559
I feel. Okay, So now
we've been talking about things like relationships,

413
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.839
connection, feelings all that. Now
I want to go into the world of

414
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.799
physicality. Right. So one of
the things that I think I know from

415
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:30.279
my research here is that there's a
there's pressure for men to conform a certain

416
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:34.240
standards of physical appearance, I mean, and I'm interested in how men get

417
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:38.599
conditioned around that and what can they
do to develop a healthy posture around their

418
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:45.880
physicality. Well, you know,
I again, I'm I love traditional masculinity

419
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.240
in the sense of I want to
be a masculine man, and I also

420
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:52.720
want to have access to the feminine
energies in me as well, and I

421
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:56.160
want to balance between those two.
And a large part of my masculinity is

422
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.920
my physical body, my physical presence. So I really try and take good

423
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:04.279
care of my physical body, and
I think that's incredibly important. Now I've

424
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.920
seen in the work that I've done. I remember thirty years ago, I

425
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:11.640
never would have saw a man with
body dysmorphia, for example, or some

426
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:17.200
sort of body image issue. And
then I started seeing more and more younger

427
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:22.960
guys adolescence with body image issues.
And I think the more we've gotten into

428
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:27.519
social media, the more difficult that
gets, because there's more influencers out there

429
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.960
that are selling perfect bodies or showing
eight pack abs and you know, showing

430
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:37.720
these ridiculous musky letters in the gym, and then all these younger men see

431
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:40.000
them and they think, oh,
that's what I have to be to be

432
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.400
a man, or that's what I'm
aspiring to. I've seen. I've talked

433
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:49.480
with amateur bodybuilders who have four percent
body fat and look ridiculously muscled. I

434
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:53.680
don't know if that's right wording,
but right pre competition. And I'll be

435
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.519
like, wow, you know,
you look amazing, and they're like,

436
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:59.440
oh, yeah, that's nothing,
look at this. And they'll pull up

437
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:02.599
on social media like I don't know, mister olympus or you know, whatever

438
00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:07.319
the top guy is, and I'm
like, oh, you're so screwed.

439
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:12.680
Yeah, like you're standard, you're
at the ninety eight ninety nine percentile of

440
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:18.359
physicality and you're looking at the ninety
nine and thinking you're falling short. And

441
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:22.920
so that's a point at which I
think self compassion can play a big part,

442
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.799
where you understand that because of the
negativity bias, which means that we

443
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:32.839
naturally over focus on negative thoughts,
negative emotions, negative self definitions like I'm

444
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:34.880
not strong enough, or I'm too
fat, or I'm too weak or whatever

445
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:38.960
it is, or my biseets aren't
big enough, that we have to be

446
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.559
able. We have to first be
aware of that negativity bias and then be

447
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:48.480
able to counterbalance it by focusing on
parts of our body we are happy and

448
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:51.799
satisfied with, knowing that there's always
going to be I don't know, i'd

449
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:56.559
say maybe five percent of our body
which we're unsatisfied with. And then you

450
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:01.559
begin to learn and practice some self
compassion skills of speaking kindly to yourself when

451
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:07.400
you do fall a little bit short. That's beautiful, John, Yeah,

452
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:09.440
and of course we women know a
lot about that whole spaces. Yeah,

453
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:14.640
it doesn't. Sorry, and yeah, you're absolutely right. But the other

454
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:20.880
thing I want to mention is that
masculinity and femininity are gender and that's separate

455
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:24.119
from sex, and sex is male
to female, right, So you can

456
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.519
have a masculine female, and you
can have a feminine male and everywhere in

457
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.039
between and every mixture of the two. So, like, you know,

458
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:34.799
you deal in the corporate world lot, and I know that there's a lot

459
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.880
of women in corporate USA that have
to begin to adopt masculine traits in order

460
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:43.759
to be successful because they're caught in
a real double bind where you know,

461
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:50.839
either if if they're too emotional,
that's a problem. If they're emotionless,

462
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:55.720
then they're a cold hearted bitch.
You know, it's and so it's you're

463
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:59.960
never able to just be one or
the other. You're never able to walk

464
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:01.960
that line right in the middle.
So I think as a result, many

465
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:07.720
women just learn to become more masculine
and probably rely more in anger to some

466
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:12.759
extent, but that's debatable. And
they close up their emotions too. And

467
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:14.799
then I meet them and I'm like, hey, I want to open your

468
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:17.759
your respector response and they're like,
what, but I've been schooled all these

469
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:21.279
years not to do that. You
get out of your cortez, don't be

470
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:24.640
fa Yeah, So spot on,
all right, let's grab our last break,

471
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:28.000
I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. Were on the year with doctor

472
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:31.279
John Schinner, who's the host of
the Evolved Caveman podcast and talking about about

473
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:35.400
some of the issues that are confronting
men today and what they can do about

474
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:37.680
it. After the break, we're
to get into relationships men can enjoy and

475
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:57.000
cultivate. Stay with us, We'll
be right back. Doctor Elise Cortez is

476
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.960
a management consultant specializing and meaning and
purpose. An inspirational speaker and author.

477
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:07.720
She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and

478
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:12.679
meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,
performance, and commitment within the workforce.

479
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:15.679
To learn more or to invite a
lease to speak to your organization, please

480
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.679
visit her at Elise Cortez dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

481
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:30.800
employees working on purpose. This is
working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez.

482
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:34.760
To reach our program today or to
open a conversation with a lease, send

483
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:39.119
an email to a lease a l
I se at Elise Cortez dot com.

484
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:49.159
Now back to working on Purpose.
Thank you staying well us, and welcome

485
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:52.119
back to working on Purpose. I
mentioned to in the last pretet that we're

486
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.760
launching and have been conducting the Purpose
Enjoy Tour. The last two books that

487
00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.159
I wrote are part of that tour. One of them is called The Great

488
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.960
Revitalization, How activating meeting can radically
enliven your business and that helps leaders to

489
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:06.960
learn how to build elevating in high
performing cultures and leadership. The other book,

490
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:08.760
the latest one, is called Coloring
Life, How Loss advises to live

491
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:14.239
more vibrant lives, and that helps
people navigating loss to transform to growth and

492
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:15.679
vitality. So they're part of the
tours where you can find them on Amazon

493
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:20.280
as well if you're now just joining
us. My guest is doctor John Schinner,

494
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:22.239
who coaches men to greater success and
happiness at work and at home.

495
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.599
Is Areas of expertise include high performance, stress management, man box culture,

496
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.039
positive psychology, anger management, and
creating happy, thriving relationships. I'm your

497
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:35.679
host, doctor Lesa Cortez, and
that brings us to I wanted to land

498
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.400
this plane, if you will,
and that is in the area of relationships.

499
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.119
So the first thing I want to
talk about is, you know the

500
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.639
role that youth that you see male
friendships playing in men's overall well being and

501
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:51.800
how they navigate those which her stands
on that well. I you know,

502
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:59.400
I've done men's groups for a couple
of years, and there's something radically different

503
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:06.320
about sharing your difficulties and challenges and
successes with a group of men that are

504
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:12.159
supportive as opposed to your spouse,
let's say, and I think there's a

505
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:17.440
place for both. However, most
men, I would argue, don't have

506
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:22.159
the same relationship with others that they
do with their spouse if they have an

507
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.960
authentic and emotionally fulfilling relationship with their
spouse, which is a pretty tall order

508
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.400
it. You know, I think
growing up, we typically have one relationship

509
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.280
where we can truly be ourselves and
truly emote and truly express how we're feeling

510
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:42.000
and truly express our fears and hopes
and desires. To expand that circle to

511
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:49.280
include a group of supportive men is
game changing and it's soul rejuvenating. Now.

512
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:52.760
The other thing I realized recently is
I have I have a number of

513
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:57.039
adult male clients, and I realized
that they were not all of them,

514
00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:01.599
but them. We're struggling with adult
friendships for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

515
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:05.880
And so I realized, well,
if the rules aren't working for us,

516
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:07.639
let's break the rules. And my
rule was, you know, I see

517
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:10.000
a client one one an hour in
a walk like this, you know,

518
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:13.400
and that kind of and I was
like, well, this sucks. So

519
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:15.639
I went to each of them and
I said, hey, look, I'm

520
00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:20.280
thinking of starting a monthly men's dinner. And there's no cost other than your

521
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:24.280
dinner, your drinks, and there's
no agenda other than connection. Would you

522
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:29.760
be interested? And every one of
them said, I'm in. And so

523
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:32.719
now there's a list of like thirty
and you know, usually eight to ten

524
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:36.920
will show up and we meet once
a month and we just we talk about

525
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:43.039
stuff, We laugh, we get
real and everyone walks away feeling a little

526
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:45.599
bit elevated. And you know,
I've done it, like we have one

527
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:54.000
tonight, and it's it's just about
connection. It's just about fulfilling that need

528
00:37:54.079 --> 00:38:00.280
for connection relationship, and that's such
a fundamental need in our lives. And

529
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:07.159
I think most men have dismissed that, and that's a problem. I mean,

530
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:09.119
we know, like I've kind of
been thinking about all the mass shootings

531
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:14.360
lately, and most of the people
that are involved in mass shootings or loaners.

532
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:21.039
They are a loan they are they
feel misunderstood. They have been you

533
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:25.280
know, eating hook line and sinker
from you know, the darkest holes in

534
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:30.079
the Internet, which are filling their
minds with some pretty nasty ideas in my

535
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:37.519
opinion, and so I think,
you know, male friendship is has been

536
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:43.400
overlooked until recently, and I think
it's critically important that we find more connection

537
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:47.159
and support from our brothers. M
John again, I still see you as

538
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:51.920
a shepherd, my friend. That's
how I'm seeing you. I have been

539
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:55.119
conducting things like this for quite a
long time for women, and women are

540
00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:59.639
they're more of a seems like a
natural thing for them, and we at

541
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:02.559
the same happens where you gather and
convene. And I would say that in

542
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:08.280
addition to feel elevated, I think
people actually leave feeling enlarged. I think

543
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:10.880
that's what you're doing too. And
so I'm now when I go out and

544
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.400
drew the coloring life the grief conversation
on the road as men and women come

545
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:21.519
to that, and it's beautiful to
watch men and women talk about their loss,

546
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.840
and it's hears come and the expanse
comes and you see some insights,

547
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.519
you know, show up on the
faces and people. It's just it is

548
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:31.280
so beautiful and I'm grateful that I
get to facilitate that. So now that

549
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:35.800
I know that you're doing this for
men as well, that's more people need

550
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.480
to know about that, John,
Yeah, thank you. And I mean,

551
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:42.480
it's it's fascinating to me because I
think when I was growing up,

552
00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:45.440
I realized at a pretty young age, twelve or thirteen, that I felt

553
00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:50.760
things deeply. And that's when you're
that age, that's not how you want

554
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:54.440
to be as a guy, because
you buy end of the socialization process.

555
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.280
But I remember, you know,
if I had to have the option,

556
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:01.760
I would have ripped out my emotions, left them in together because they humiliated

557
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:08.320
me once or twice or more.
And you know, I think that in

558
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:12.679
you know, doing this work for
thirty years, I've had this conversation with

559
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.480
a lot of men and shared exactly
that what I just shared with you.

560
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:22.840
Those men have said, yeah,
me too, I feel things deeply too.

561
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:28.800
So the idea that the emotions didn't
leave us. We left the emotions,

562
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.920
we buried the emotions. But we
are human, and we are human

563
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:38.079
before being male or female, and
so we are necessarily going to feel and

564
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:45.639
so to just be able to give
that permission and space is massive. I'm

565
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:49.239
so glad to know you, John. This is such good, yummy stuff.

566
00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:52.280
What we're doing for our listeners of
yours today is just it's so inviting.

567
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.199
Na please come with us. This
is a great journey. So we

568
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:59.159
can talk about male friendships now.
I want to move into you know,

569
00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:04.360
actual relationship shifts a significant others with
whether it's a woman or with a man.

570
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:08.840
Interested in what you're seeing in terms
of how men are navigating these relationships,

571
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:13.039
these significant other relationships in our lives
and what kinds of issues are they

572
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:15.480
finding there. You already told us
a little bit in the beginning about if

573
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:17.480
they're not getting you know, support
at home, we're going to go into

574
00:41:17.559 --> 00:41:22.119
themselves into work kind of thing.
But what else are you seeing? Well?

575
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.320
On the negative side, I think
we can go into addictions, whether

576
00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:30.159
that's you know, addiction to sex, addiction to alcohol, addiction to drugs,

577
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:35.639
addiction to working out, addiction to
adrenaline, addiction to TV sports.

578
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:39.360
I think there's a number of ways
that we numb ourselves that you know,

579
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:44.280
we get overwhelmed from our emotions that
we're not supposed to feel, and then

580
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.079
we try and find a way out, and a lot of the ways out

581
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:50.880
aren't healthy and they're not serving us. Now, you know, for those

582
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:54.280
of my clients and myself that want
to look for ways to evolve, I

583
00:41:54.320 --> 00:42:01.920
think there's a number of scientifically backed
tools that you and learn and learn with

584
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:06.559
some ease. It takes some practice, but there are ways that you can

585
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:10.440
get better in relationship. And you
know, if we're not taught how to

586
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:15.960
be in relationship naturally, normally by
society, by our family, if we

587
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.519
didn't have a good blueprint for a
marriage, let's say from our mom and

588
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:22.519
dad, which I would argue most
of us probably didn't, then you got

589
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:27.000
to learn those skills somewhere. And
you know, just to give you an

590
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:31.320
example, I really like the line
from Terry Real where he says relationships don't

591
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:37.480
typically end because of a large transgression
like an affair. Relationships typically die via

592
00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:42.360
death by a thousand paper cuts.
And those paper cuts are really tiny hurts,

593
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:46.239
annoyances, resentments that sit inside us
and fester over time, and they

594
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:51.199
accumulate. And to give you an
idea how small these hurts can be,

595
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:54.320
I like the idea of John Gottman
and the idea of bids for attention.

596
00:42:55.079 --> 00:43:00.440
And we make bids for attention all
the time. And a bid for attention

597
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:02.519
can be something like, hey,
at least, did I tell you about

598
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:08.159
dot dot dot? Or you know, you put your hand on your lover's

599
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:12.360
leg and you want to look at
her, look her in the eyes,

600
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.519
or you put your hands around her
waist, or you make a bad joke.

601
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:20.880
But we're always trying to get other
people's attention. And there's three ways

602
00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:24.039
you can respond to a bid for
attention. There's positive, neutral, negative.

603
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:29.920
So let's say I'll give you a
stereotypical nineteen fifties example. Let's say

604
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.639
I'm at home in the morning with
my fiance and she's making breakfast because she

605
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:36.719
just cooks better than I do,
and I'm reading the news on my phone,

606
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.519
which I like to do, and
she says, you know, hey,

607
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:43.639
honey, did I tell you about
the Johnson's. So that's her making

608
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:45.920
a bid for my attention. So
if I respond positively, I'm like,

609
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:49.079
no, honey, you didn't you
know, I put my phone down,

610
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:52.920
I give her my eyes, and
I'm curious. If I respond neutrally,

611
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:58.800
I may not hear it, but
I don't respond, or I'm just ignoring

612
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.800
her and it just goes right over
my head. If I respond negatively,

613
00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:05.760
maybe I'm a little bit annoyed.
Well, honey, can't you see that

614
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:09.760
I'm reading the news? Like why
always interrupting me? Now, the interesting

615
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:15.679
thing is the neutral response is the
most damaging of the three, because if

616
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.960
I'm annoyed and I have that kind
of poor reaction, at least I'm aware

617
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:22.639
of it, hopefully, and I
can say, hey, you know what,

618
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:27.800
I'm sorry. I was reading about
slave labor or something and it really

619
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.039
put me in a bad mood.
But if I'm not aware of it,

620
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:37.559
there's no repair attempt possible. Now, the data shows that a happy,

621
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:40.639
thriving couple will respond positively about two
thirds of the time to bids for attention

622
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.480
from their partner. A couple that's
looking that's nearing the end of that relationship,

623
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:49.559
it's about a third of the time. Now, the thing I love

624
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:53.079
about this idea is it doesn't matter
where you are right now. What matters

625
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:57.159
is that you become aware of it
and you slowly get better at it over

626
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:06.400
time. So there's skills like that
that are really impactful and if you think

627
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:09.599
of, you know, one of
those paper cuts that accumulates and leads to

628
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:13.880
the end of a relationship, all
that has to be is a missed bid

629
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:21.559
for attention. That perspective really woke
me up and I was like, I

630
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:24.559
was like, holy smokes, Like
I need to pay better attention. M

631
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:29.480
Okay, we're coming close to the
end here, and I want to get

632
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:31.480
one more question in for your own
relationships, and that's definitely with kids.

633
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:37.360
I know so many people that talk
about there's connection with their father and that

634
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:42.400
oh you know, there's stuff this
residue that's left there. So I'm interested

635
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:44.559
in, you know, from your
experience and what you know or what is

636
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:46.800
the common issues that men face in
their relationship with their children and how can

637
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:52.679
they actually improve those relationships? Ah, well, boy, common issues.

638
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:58.559
I think it's different for sons and
daughters, I think, and I think

639
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.920
it depends on age too, so
teenagers versus childhood. Um, you know,

640
00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:06.199
dads with daughters. I think a
lot of times daughters make us uncomfortable

641
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:08.679
for a variety of reasons. You
know, we aren't comfortable talking about things

642
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:14.280
like periods or sexuality, um,
drugs and alcohol and then I think the

643
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.920
other part of it is I think
their own sexuality can make us uncomfortable in

644
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:22.639
ourselves, and so I think to
be aware of those things, to know

645
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:25.519
that those are normal, but to
also be willing to step into those areas

646
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:31.039
of discomfort, um, so that
you can have conversations around those areas with

647
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:37.840
your daughter if if that's serving both
of you, because I think a lot

648
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:40.519
of times it's easier just I'll just
leave that to mom. But I think

649
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:45.519
I'm divorced and I have hundred percent
custody my seventeen year old daughter, and

650
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:51.039
we talk about all that stuff.
And I could tell you I was really

651
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:54.119
uncomfortable with a lot of that stuff
at first, but A I didn't have

652
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:59.840
a choice, and B I knew
we needed to talk about it because you

653
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:01.639
know, one of the big things
to me is, you know, as

654
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:07.320
our kids become older and older,
and as they get to adolescence, the

655
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:13.559
last type of influence you have on
them is not control. It's not consequences,

656
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:17.000
it's not punishing them into good behavior, which never works. It's communication.

657
00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:23.159
It's conversation. It's values based parenting. And so you know, if

658
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:28.519
you have any prayer of influencing their
behavior. It's going to be through uncomfortable

659
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:32.559
conversations, and so you want to
lay the groundwork for that early on and

660
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.239
make sure that you're both cool with
that. UM as far as you know,

661
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.159
sons go. And I'll stick with
adolescence for now, I think.

662
00:47:44.679 --> 00:47:49.199
But a lot of men get into
UM dominance based parenting, like they want

663
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:51.599
to be more physical, They want
to teach their sons how to fight,

664
00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:57.800
They want to UM. They want
to do the same thing that they did

665
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:00.880
with their friends in high school,
put down sarc as a what upmanship And

666
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:06.039
you know again, I want to
urge the fathers out there to really begin

667
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:08.280
to connect with their sons at a
deeper level, at a more authentic level,

668
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:14.159
at a more emotional level. M
So, I really don't want to

669
00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:15.320
let you go. So I'm glad
we stay connected to here. What you're

670
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:19.079
doing the world is so important and
I'm happy to share reind listeners and viewers,

671
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:21.159
thank you so much for being on
working on purpose. John. It's

672
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:22.639
really great to have you. Thank
you so much. Always a pleasure,

673
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:28.000
doctor Release Listeners, viewers, if
you'll learn more about doctor John Schinner or

674
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.159
the work he does coaching meant a
greater connection and happiness or find the Evolved

675
00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:36.960
Caveman podcast he host. You can
start by going to the Evolved Caveman dot

676
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.800
com. You can also visit guide
to Self dot com for some more resources.

677
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:43.360
Last week, if you've missed the
live show, it can Sketch It

678
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:45.519
Reaccorded podcast. We were on near
to doctor Lance Secreton, who is my

679
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:51.400
mentor and spiritual guru and coach.
He's the pioneering guru in the inspirational leadership

680
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:54.079
space, and we were talking about
his latest beautiful book called Reawakening the Human

681
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:58.719
Spirit, Finding the Spark, the
Flame, and the Torch within. Next

682
00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:01.920
we'll be on the air with Jim
Lair and Sheila Olsen talking about their new

683
00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:06.880
book, Wise Decisions, a science
based approach to making better choices. See

684
00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:08.480
you there. Remember that work as
an integral an important part of our lives

685
00:49:08.519 --> 00:49:13.119
and so our relationships and one about
the world of work. It's going to

686
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:15.599
be one of the best adventures and
means of realizing and potential and making the

687
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:22.760
impact that we crave. So let's
work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed

688
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:25.559
this week's program. Be sure to
tune into Working on Purpose, featuring your

689
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:30.960
host, doctor Elise Cortez, each
week on W four C. Why Together,

690
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:36.280
We'll create a world where business operates
conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance

691
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:39.159
and employees are fulfilled in work that
provides the meaning and purpose they create.

692
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:42.960
See you there, Let's work on
purpose.