Leading to Heal and Unite Your Diverse Team by Addressing the Ache for Belonging

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show hosts. Thank you for choosing W

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FOURCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache
for meaning and purpose at work, to

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contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part

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of an organization that inspires them and
helps them grow into realizing their highest potential.

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Business can be such a force for
good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance
and inspiration to help usher in this

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world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez. Welcome back to the
Working on Purpose program. Great to have

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you, Thank you joining it in
this week. This program has been on

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air since February of twenty fifteen,
and it is a pride and joy for

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me. I'm glad to have you
with me along the journey. I'm your

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host, doctor Elis Cortes, And
if we've not met before and you don't

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know me, I'm an organizational psychologist
and log with therapist, speaker and author.

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And my team and I at gusto
Now help companies to enliven and fortify

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their operations by articulating their purpose,
building inspirational leaders and cultures activated by meaning

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and purpose to turn those companies from
a flatline EKG to a vibrant destination workplace.

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There people are interestedly motivated to perform
at their best, can grow into

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their former potential, and are committed
to stay and dynamically deliver on the company's

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mission. You can learn more about
us and how we can work together at

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gustodashnow dot com or my personal site, Atliscortes dot com. Now getting into

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today's program with us is Jerry Kolona, an executive coach who uses the skills

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he learned as a venture capitalist to
help entrepreneurs. He is a co founder

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and CEO of Reboot, the executive
coaching and leadership development company, host of

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the Reboot podcast, and author of
Reunion Leadership and The Longing to Belong and

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Reboot and also Reboot Leadership and the
Art of Growing Up. He joined it

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today from Boulder, Colorado. Jerry, A hearty welcome to Working on Purpose.

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Oh, thanks for having me,
and what a delight it is to

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be with you. Likewise my new
friend. As I told you before we

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got on air, I loved,
thoroughly enjoyed every decadent word in your book,

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and I think the world desperately needs
this beautiful book that you created.

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So I'm very happy to share it
with my listeners across the world. So

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I want to start by just jumping
in one. How wonderful that your forward

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is by Parker Palmer. I'm very
envious that you have him as your forward

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and your friend and also fellow mentor. It sounds like but what I thought

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was really beautiful, and I think
this is so important to start here,

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Jerry is there's a quote in the
beginning of his forward where he talks about

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you and also talks about some of
your work and you in your Reboot book,

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and I think it's really great that
he's also emphasizing that what you say

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is the leaders of the world need
today that you argue and I agree,

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will come only as they learn how
to work with their wounds in ways that

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make it unnecessary to work them out
on others. Yeah, Parker has a

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way with words, says ay that
is so compelling. And you know,

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one thing that I've come to in
my own work, Jerry, it is

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maybe like a bit like your journey
is That's what I've come to understand.

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We're all walking wounded. It's just
the extent to which how we work the

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stuff out, and certainly if we
haven't, what a disaster that is as

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a leader. Yeah. Well,
I think the world is rife with examples

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of people who hold power who are
using that power inappropriately to somehow heal the

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wounds that they carry, and the
result is that they create more toxicity and

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more pain and more wounds, rather
than doing the hard, hard work of

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you know the subtitle my first book, Leadership and the Art of Growing Up,

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doing the hard, hard work of
actually growing up, becoming a full

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fledged adult before you try to wield
power. Yeah. I think it's so

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critical what you're talking about, And
of course we know what this is unconscious.

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They don't know the extent to which
they're wounded, which makes it even

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worse. So I really applaud and
we'll get into some of your radical self

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inquiry later because I think it's really
powerful. But you know, as we

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were, as I was putting together
what I wanted to talk with you about

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in this program, I was thinking, if this is a book about belonging,

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we can't really talk about belonging if
we don't first talk about other ing.

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So will you share your perspective about
what's othering. Well, it's important

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to recognize that I learned the term
othering from the important work of the scholar

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John A. Powell and'a has
done some tremendous work in codifying and explaining

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a process by which those who might
have less power in a certain situation are

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pushed to the margins. And it
goes beyond race, it goes beyond gender

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identity. It really speaks in the
broadest possible terms to the experience, this

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experience of being made to feel that
we are other than that which is dominant.

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And there's a close experience of dehumanization
that can occur with the other ring

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that we so experience beautifully articulated.
I think it's so important to have access

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to that idea of other ing.
And then, of course, as I

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mentioned before, one of the other
things that I thought was brilliant about your

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book and now I'm getting access to
your work, is you talk about the

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need for practicing radical self inquiry and
there's a couple steps to that which if

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you could share those that would be
great. Sure. I mean, first,

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to describe it. I coined the
term a number of years ago to

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try to describe what it was that
I was doing in this odd combination of

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coaching, Buddhist meditation, psychoanalysis.
What is this thing? And it really

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comes down to this notion of skillfully
and compassionately stripping away the mass that we

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wear to keep ourselves safe, so
that there's no place left to hide,

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even from ourselves. And the important
thing to recall about the phrase is it's

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the notion that it's radical. It's
radical for us to ask a question like

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how have I actually been complicit in
creating the conditions in my life? I

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say, I don't want complicit,
not responsible. It's not about inducing guilt.

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This is about inducing curiosity with the
intent to create transformation. A corollary

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to that would be to say,
how has it benefited me to always feel

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completely depleted and busy? Oh?
Well, it makes me feel important.

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Maybe I should work on feeling important
before I try to change the outward behavior

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what's going on. Those are good
examples of what I mean by radical self

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inquiry. And of course I really
appreciate the work that you do to help

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steward that along. And I really
also appreciated it the way that you explicated

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that how workshops are so useful to
help people will gain access to that emotional

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realm, maybe in a way that
wouldn't happen in a one on one conversation

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or even in one on one therapy. And so you know, most of

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us need help along this journey.
Yeah, most of us need help growing

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up, don't We We do,
including coaches and therapists, that's for sure.

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And it's a forever process, right, We're just really never done,

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That's right, And I find I
find that compelling. I think of the

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word practice. It's a practice of
growing up, just like my meditation practice

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is never done. I'm not okay, I'm enlightened, I'm done. No,

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no, no, It's just something
I do every day. I brush

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my teeth every day, I sit
in meditation every day, and every day

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I try to grow up a little
bit more. And some days are better

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than others. That's just the way
life unfolds. Mm hmm. And and

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yet it's I think there's there's such
value in the reach to try to grow

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up every day. They're a commitment
an intention that I celebrate, Browning said

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Robert Browning. The poet said man's
reach should exceed his grasp or else what's

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a heaven for? I love that
in your book. I saw that.

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I of course, so I take
a lot of notes as part of the

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way I do my research for my
own writing, et cetera as well.

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But yeah, I just ran out
of pages with you, Jerry. So

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okay, So this is another thing
that I really want to celebrate about your

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work and what you're doing in the
world, Jerry, And that is that

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you're really calling for a leadership revolution
anchored and belonging. And there's a lot

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to that about what you're calling forth
and really, you know, certainly it's

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going to require a good amount of
courage on all of our parts. And

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I am completely aligned with you how
necessary it is. And so will you

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talk a little bit about what does
this leadership revolution look like? Well,

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I think that we carry this internalized
notion of leadership as being a either a

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function of being the one to direct, being the boss, which has its

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own problems, like it induces in
the person who's in that role an imposter

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syndrome because they can't possibly know all
the things to tell people what to do.

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It carries with it a belief that
we're somehow supposed to create this output,

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this constant sense of the outcome has
to be better. A company isn't

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succeeding unless it's not just profitable,
but growing profitably constantly. And while those

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notions are really important, what I'm
challenging business leaders to do right now is

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to expand that definition, to understand
that they have more power than that they

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pretend that they have, and that
they have a moral responsibility to speak up

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for those who have been othered and
to add to the work. And yeah,

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it's hard, I get it.
But the responsibility to leave the world

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better than what we found it.
This is what our elders in every wisdom

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tradition has taught have taught us.
And so yeah, it's a bit of

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a revolutionary concept, but it also
feels quite old, meaning rooted in wisdom

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traditions where those who hold power had
a responsibility to care for the whole of

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the community, like we're coming back
home almost, Yes, trying to come

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back home. Yes, thank you
for that. Yes, it's a homecoming,

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isn't it? M M? And
I appreciated you, know how you

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Now if we juxtapose the beautiful language
that you just put there, now,

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let's put it into today's up against
today's parlance, and let me quote from

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your book, because it really juxtaposes
the difference and why there is such a

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need for this revolution. Then you
go on to say, when you're talking

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about this, you say it's no
longer sufficient to measure success by financial return

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on investment. A good leader,
I contend, uses the experience of leading

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others, of wielding the privilege that
comes with power to confront their own demons,

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which could otherwise create toxicity for those
they lead. But a great leader

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actively confronts other ring wherever it sprouts, including from their own inner demons.

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That's definitely revolutionary. I suppose it
is. And when I started writing the

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book, which was in the summer
of twenty I saw the need then when

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I what I did not envision is
that the need would be so much greater

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three four years later and here we
are. Well. That brings me to

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the next thing I wanted to talk
about, which you so incredibly delineate in

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your book. It's incredibly eye opening
as the role of dehumanation in othering.

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And you go on to share a
passage about past President Trump who is talking

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about Mexican immigrants, and you say, you quote, you wouldn't believe how

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bad these people are. They aren't
people, These are animals. Animals.

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Dehumanization is a pillar of systemic othering, and for such dehumanization to take hold,

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those who have assimilated must forget the
oppression, the othering of their ancestors.

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This is how those who are othered
are complicit and benefit from the othering

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of others. So there's a lot
in that, But the first part that

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I wanted to really call out is
the importance of the aspect of dehumaniation dehumanization

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for othering to occur. Yeah,
it's you know, anyone who studies genocide,

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for example, will identify that the
first step is dehumanization. And we

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hear this in language unfortunately every day
right now, whether it's migrants on the

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southern border of the United States,
whether it's you know, children in urban

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neighborhoods, whether it's the victims of
substance abuse, whether it's people of a

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different religion than the dominant religion in
a particular region. There's this constant refrain

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of dehumanization, of failing to see
that the person in in front of you

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loves their children, is a person
is scared, wants nothing more than to

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feel safe, wants nothing more than
to feel that they belong. And when

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we lose sight of that, horrible, horrible atrocities are possible. You know,

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I'm a Buddhist, and I fundamentally
believe that the core of human being,

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the human existence, is compassion.
And the thing that works against compassion

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is to no longer see that person
opposite you as a human being. As

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they say in the book, that
dehumanization makes it possible to look past the

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experience of our ancestors, to look
past what actually they will happen to them,

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and instead of seeing a kinship with
those who might be a climate refuge

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or an economic asylum seeker, or
a political asylum seeker, or a thirteen

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year old girl looking for healthcare because
she was raped. Instead of seeing the

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person in that, they become an
object of ideology, less than human,

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dangerous, very dangerous. Now,
on that note, let's let our listeners

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and viewers just kind of let that
sink into on that a little bit.

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We'll take our first break. I'm
your host, doctor or Lee's Cortez.

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We've be on the air with Jerry
Colonna, who's the author of Reunion Leadership

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and Belonging to Belong and also Reboot
Leadership in the Art of Growing Up.

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We've been talking first about the notion
of and dehumanization. After the break,

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we're going to start talking about the
power of inclusion. Stay with us.

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Will be right back. Doctor Elise
Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and
author, she helps companies visioneer for greater

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purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

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performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elisecortes dot com.

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Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is

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working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

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open a conversation with Elise, send
an email to a lease A Lise at

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00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:12.920
a Leastcortes dot com. Now back
to working on Purpose. Thanks for staying

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with us, and welcome back to
working on Purpose. I'm your host,

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doctor Elise Cortes, as I too, am dedicated to helping create a world

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what people realize our potential at work
and are led by inspirational leaders that help

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them find and contribute their greatness,
and we do business that betters the world.

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I keep writing my own books.
A lot of my research comes from

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my guest on this program, and
one of my latest, which came out

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in March of twenty twenty three,
is called The Great Revitalization. How activating

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meeting and purpose can radically enliven your
business. And I wrote it to help

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leaders understand how much the world had
changed in terms of what their workforce wants

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from an organization and then give them
twenty two best prejudices to try to create

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that in their culture. You can
find it on Amazon or my website at

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leastcoretest dot com. If you are
just now joining me. My guest is

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Jerry Kolona. He's the co founder
and CEO of Reboot, the executive coaching

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and leadership development company, and he's
also the host of Reboot Podcast. So,

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now that we've set up just how
problematic othering and dehumanization could be,

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let's move on to the good stuff
of inclusion, shall we? So?

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I love it. I love how
you talk about how your work has also

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been informed by your beautiful daughter Emma, and how she helped help you understand

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with the idea of But it's not
enough just to be an ally, but

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we need to be co conspirators.
So would you talk a bit about your

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perspective on inclusion, what really it
is when it's at its best and its

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power. Well, the term that
I started playing with when I was writing

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the book is systemic belonging, and
people like that term. I came to

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that when I started thinking about systemic
oppression and systemic racism as expressions of othering,

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and I realized that systemic problems requires
systemic solutions, and that there are

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limitations. There are clear limitations in
what we have done collectively to advance the

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sense of inclusivity through most of our
diversity, equity and inclusivity programs, and

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what was missing from my perspective was
the work required by those who hold the

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most power within an organization and by
leaning into something another. Friends said,

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not just the brilliant advice from my
fierce daughter, but this notion. In

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my first book, I wrote about
this notion of us being motivated but for

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the pursuit of love, safety,
and belonging, and that those really drive

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so much of our behavior. And
a good friend, Justin Scott Campbell,

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who himself is a wonderful DEI consultant, he wrote to me and he said,

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Jerry, inclusivity is the felt sense
of love, safety, and belonging.

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And it just knocked me on my
butt because that's it. You know,

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what's missing in so much of our
efforts is that felt sense of love,

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safety, and belonging. And so
I think that the reach here is

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to create a pervasive sense of belonging
that is system wide, that even when

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the organization fails to live up to
that aspiration, it remembers that aspiration and

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goes right back to it. That's
what I meant when I talked about being

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centered on belonging. So I do
want you to distinguish if you would trust

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city Line. But before we do
it, we must do this, Jerry.

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One of the things is that I
just loved that you shared in your

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book is that you're known as the
man who makes people cry. And the

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reason that you do that is because
you make them feel seen and heard.

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I dare say that what you just
uttered right back there about that felt sense

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of inclusion, which includes safety,
trust, and belonging, probably made it

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people cry because they probably went for
the yes, the man gets it.

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That's what I've been wanting. I
can almost guarantee, ladies and gentlemen that

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if you are tearing up you are
you're definitely part of the right community here.

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And Jerry, I love that you
make people cry. I like doing

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that too, for all the right
reasons, you know. I also thank

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you for saying that I appreciate that
I don't set out to make people cry.

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I understand. I set out to
help people feel right. I understand

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we share that. And one of
the tragedies of our modern life is that

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when people feel they often cry right
because what they feel deeply inside is sadness.

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And you know, so much we
struggle to make space for feelings like

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sadness. You know, I will
joke with a group and I'll say,

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all right, you want to know
the secret to making people cry? I

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asked them a really, really tough
question. I ask them, how are

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you? And I ask it like
I care, And the simple act of

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caring how somebody is, more often
than not, unleashes those tears. I

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would the way I see that,
Terry, is also that you've touched their

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heart and soul. And most people
don't get to touch that beautiful, privileged

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part of a person today, but
you know how to do that. And

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I would offer and venture that that's
also what's happening, is they feel touched

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by you. Well, I can
take that in. I only know one

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way of being and it's real.
And I have learned that when someone holds

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their seat with presence and care and
can with compassion be with someone else's feelings,

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magic happens. Agreed, And it
is precious, beautiful work to get

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to do. Amen, we are
lucky, aren't we. I count my

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blessings every day and it's probably gonna
move me to tears because I'm so grateful

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for it. Just beautiful. So
well, let's do this. While we

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were talking about that, I do
want to. I had a question here

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that I wanted you to to distinguish
the relationship between trust, safety, and

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belonging. Since we've already cued it
up, let's go ahead and treat that

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well. I usually use the term
love, but trust works. When I

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describe it, I will say,
we want to love and be loved.

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We want that exchange that goes there. We want to feel safe physically,

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emotionally, spiritually, existentially. Yeah, and through that we can finally know

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to whom and to where we belong. And I always envision just resting,

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you know, when you're in that
tight mode and your shoulders rise to your

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ears and you're just and I just
imagine that the belonging just drops the shoulders

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down and you can take a deep
breath, a parasympathetic, nervous system reset.

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I just go Okay, I can
kick my shoes off and I can

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feel at home. Mm hmm.
Yeah, that sounds like the kind of

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world I want to live in,
Jerry and help create. Isn't it the

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kind of company we want to work
for? Mm hmmm. It certainly is

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the kind of company I want my
daughter to work for. That's right,

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That yeah, uh you there's a
powerful Uh. This just goes to the

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other. The other reason why this
is so important to help work on this

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is you have a quote again from
Parker Palmer's assertion which I just just knocked

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me back, Jerry. It was
violence is what happens when we don't know

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what to do with suffering? Right? Is that Parker? Again? You

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know, I offer and think of
children when I think of that quote,

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and I think of children growing up
in environments not knowing what to do with

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the tears, with the sadness,
with the suffering. You know, I

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can, I can usually make a
room full of people cry just simply by

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saying, oh, you're crying,
I'll give you something to cry about,

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and it takes them right back to
childhood. Yes. Oh, I wasn't

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expecting you to go there, but
yes, right. And that's and instead

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of being taught what to do with
suffering. Oh you're crying? Are you

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okay? The world must feel overwhelming
to you. I'm right here, we

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got you're crying. I'll give you
something to cry about, right, or

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variations on that theme. And then
that child becomes an adult, and that

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adult gets power, and then what
happens you know what happens warm, Right,

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we ban people from a particular country
because of the religion, or we

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fight about humanitarian aid when we have
two more of everything, as Tracy Chapman

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once saying, right, we allow
children to get to try to crawl through

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razor wire to try to get to
safety. We have four hundred million guns

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in a country with three hundred and
thirty million people gun violence. Gun violence

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is the number one cause of death
for children age seventeen and younger in the

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United States in twenty twenty four.
Because violence is what we do when we

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don't know what to do with suffering. I want to go back, and

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I had pulled out a passage that
what I thought was so incredibly compelling,

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and I think it bears sharing at
this point because I want our listeners and

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viewers to really understand how this idea
of belonging that we were talking about has

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such huge ramifications when it's not present, and it's going to expand to what

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you just said there, Jerry.
So this is in your Wages of Separation

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chapter, and you illustrate the catastrophic
effects of other ing and also that suffering

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violence that happens when the suffering we
don't know what to do with the suffering,

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So you say this is incredible.
We fly the flag at half mass

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every week. Every week, another
shooting each week. It seems we bear

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witness to horrific manifestations of our deep
fear of the other. Worshippers and churches,

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temples, and synagogues murdered because of
how and to whom they pray,

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or sometimes its revelers and a nightclub
murdered because of who and how they love.

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Sometimes it's supermarket shoppers, perhaps a
black grandmother picking up produce, targeted

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because the shooter believed lies about white
people being replaced. Sometimes it's students college,

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high school, middle school, fourth
grade, or God help us,

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kindergarteners preparing for summer break. And
sometimes it's an unarmed black man stopped for

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a traffic violation or killed because the
hoodie he was wearing, even the Skittles

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candies he was caring seemed threatening.
Yeah, yeah, that that's a hard

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passage for me to even hear.
And I wrote that in the weeks following

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the shooting in Uvaldi tech Us,
and I wrote that trying to grapple with

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how can we live in a world
where babies are shot, and what is

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my moral responsibility as a person born
to this body, white, straight,

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cisgender male with power and privilege.
What is my responsibility in a world like

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that? And you know, we
focused on dehumanization before, let's also focus

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on the numbing. Yeah, that
happens, because I think that one of

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our safety mechanisms is to be numb
ourselves, to kind of normalize what is

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extraordinarily atrocious. And maybe what's revolutionary
about what I'm doing is or what's certainly

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uncomfortable about what I'm doing, is
to say there's a through line that connects

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all of these activities, including activities
that would deny human and civil and healthcare

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rights to our brothers and sisters,
or the ability to find the medical care

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that they deserve because they are trying
to sort through who they are in the

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world. Yeah, because we're so
frightened, we're so threatened by something that

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seems different, beautiful soul, let's
also take our last break for all people,

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sit and chew on that. I'm
your host, doctor Elise Cortes.

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We've got to an air with Jerry
Colonna, who's the author of Reunion Leadership

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and the Longing to belong and also
the book Reboot Leadership and the Art of

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Growing Up. You've been talking a
good bit about what it looks like in

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the rapifications of othering into humanization.
After the break, we're going to invite

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you to come with us to elevate
yourself and grow up and embrace belonging as

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a way of leading. Stay with
us. We'll be right back. Doctor

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Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing
in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker

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00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:58.079
and author, she helps companies visioneer
for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop

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purpose inspired leadership and meaning infuse cultures
that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment

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within the workforce. To learn more
or to invite a lease to speak to

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your organization, please visit her at
elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how

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to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor

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00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:25.280
Elise Cortes. To reach our program
today or to open a conversation with Elise,

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00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:31.360
send an email to a lease a
lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now

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back to working on Purpose. Thanks
for sting let us and welcome back to

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working on Purpose. I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes. I mentioned in

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the last break that I put out
my last book, The Great Revitalization for

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Business Leaders, in March of twenty
twenty three. What I did for you

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is I created a three page assessment
that you can download from my website to

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ascertain the extent to it your organization
is actually providing a culture that would actually

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attract and want to keep the kind
of people that are looking for and wanting

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to work today. What today's workforce
wants. You can find it at Gusto

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dashnow dot com if you are now
just joining us. My guest is Jerry

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Kolona. He's the co founder and
CEO of Reboot, the executive coaching and

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leadership development company and the host of
Reboot Podcast. So for this next and

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last session section here Jerry, what
I wanted to focus on is really situating

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what we can do now. So
we've I think made a very good case

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for why this is a problem and
how it's affecting the world peace and our

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health and vitality. So for this
next segment, I wanted to put forth

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that that invitation, and so first
I want to read this passion or this

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passage that you that you set forth
here because we talked about it just before

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we got on air, and I
want to situate it for as an invitation

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for everyone that's listening and watching.
You say this is and I say,

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this is true leadership. You say
I try. I tried, just by

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knowing that I may fail. But
I can't be a bridge if I am

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unwilling to be trodden on. I
must feel the dirt and mud of potential

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imperfection. I must risk the privilege
that comes from white supremacy. I must

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be willing, as poet Donna Markova
says, to risk my significance. Yeah.

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There's another quote in the book that
I find incredibly helpful and hopeful,

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and this is really important. This
is the hopefulness that's implicit even in the

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word reunion. And the quote is
the epigraph to chapter seven, which comes

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from the Talmut, and in it, Rabbi Tarfin says, it is not

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yours to complete the work, but
neither are you at liberty to neglect the

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work. And I think you combine
that passage that you're talking about, what

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am I willing to risk? I
am real to risk being set straight and

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told that I'm wrong as part of
the process of me not neglecting the work.

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This is leadership at its best,
leaning in trying the hard thing.

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You know, as I often counsel
to people, Yeah, I know it's

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hard to build a profitable business,
and it's really important. But it's also

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important to build a business that has
purpose, that has meaning. And then

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I'll joke you can walk into your
gum. At the same time. It

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is hard, but it is worth
it, even if you fail, even

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in the moments to use your framing, even in the moments when a company

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loses connection to its purpose. So
lot was my Buddhist teacher, Sharon Solves

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00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:08.880
work would say, begin again,
right, begin again, reconnect to that

405
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:15.159
purpose, go back to what it
is. This is essentially what reunion is

406
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:21.360
about. You know. In the
last chapter, I quote from the brilliant

407
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:28.079
Beautiful Bell Hooks and her poem when
Angels speak of love. When angels speak

408
00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:32.119
of love, they tell us all
things are union and reunion. There is

409
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:38.199
no separation, there is no end
to paradise. Now, what that brilliant

410
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:45.760
elder tells us in that poem is
that the possibility exists for us to be

411
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:55.199
together again, and we have to
try, knowing that we will fail because

412
00:38:55.239 --> 00:39:02.360
the stakes are so high and it's
so worth it. I think it is

413
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.719
a profoundly and radically beautiful use of
your one precious life. That's what I

414
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:12.840
think, Amen. I wanted you
to talk a little bit more about your

415
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:17.519
reunion process. I was completely dazzled
by the way you describe it in your

416
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:21.559
book, and if you could just
talk a little bit to it, I

417
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.079
know you could. Probably we could
spend a whole podcast on that process,

418
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:29.000
but if you could describe a bit
of what that means or how you steward

419
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:37.840
it the Satis. One of the
insights I got was that there was a

420
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:45.440
I did not know to whom I
belonged. And I realize that I have

421
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:51.400
been walking through the world with power, exhorting people to be better human so

422
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:55.400
that they might be better leaders.
And I realized that there was a gap

423
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:01.440
in my own understanding of to whom
to where I belong or, as Parker

424
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:07.320
writes in the forward, whose am
I not? Who am I? Right?

425
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:12.320
And so for me, part of
the reunion process, and what I

426
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:19.639
think may be different about what I'm
proposing, is that part of the preliminary

427
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:24.400
work to creating a systemic sense of
belonging is for those of us who hold

428
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:30.199
power to reconnect with the experience,
the reality of the experience of our ancestors,

429
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:36.880
can induce a greater sense of empathy
for the world as it is,

430
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:43.760
and to welcome in the disowned parts
of ourselves that very important shadow work,

431
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:50.239
so that we welcome in even the
bits of our family trade, even the

432
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:55.559
parts of our own experience that we
might not be particularly proud of, so

433
00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:01.559
that we can stand from that place
of deep and profect on empathy and then

434
00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:08.639
look out to the other and reunite
with the kins the kinship and the kinfolk

435
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:17.840
who live outside of our own experience. That for me is the reunion process.

436
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:22.159
Your story that you weave throughout the
book, Jerry, about your own

437
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:23.880
family, your own family that you
grew up in, and of course your

438
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:30.440
grandparents and then you know, going
back and claiming your your your grandmother in

439
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:36.320
Ireland biological grandmother and I biological grandmother. It's just so powerful. And the

440
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:39.840
story that you talk in the book
about the woman CEO who couldn't figure out

441
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:45.039
why everybody was quitting and they all
were leaving because of pay and she and

442
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:46.960
you helped her understand, you know, how she how she could connect back

443
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:52.599
to her previous ancestors who had been
slave owners. Incredibly powerful, Jerry.

444
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:57.920
I've never seen anybody do this kind
of work. You know. My last

445
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.639
chapter in the Great Organization is on
spiritual intelligence. And like you, I'm

446
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:05.559
waiting for somebody to come running up
after me saying there's a business talking about

447
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:08.960
U intelligence in the business world.
Yes there is. How's that? Yes,

448
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:13.360
there is. I'm gonna I'm gonna
say, I'm gonna call my friend

449
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:20.159
Jerry so so so. I just
think that's stunningly beautiful. And you take

450
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:22.239
it further though, Jerry, and
when you talk about your reunion process that

451
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:28.239
I just thought was so incredible,
you say, what's needed for true reunion

452
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:35.360
and therefore lasting transformation are visceral somatic
experiences coupled with repetition, revery, active

453
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:38.800
imagination. Art such as poetry,
all draw people into their bodies, into

454
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:44.119
their hearts. Then the energy that
has stirred up becomes the fuel for transformation,

455
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:46.960
connection, and reunion. That is
why beauty and art are needed.

456
00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:52.159
Reunion, like welcoming the unwelcome,
begins with a broken heart. Yeah,

457
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:59.159
yeah, Well that that little bit
of wisdom comes to me from my teacher

458
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:06.000
and friend on a PEMA children but
his nun who always talks about starting with

459
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:12.639
the broken heart, and that particular
passage, by the way, was spurred

460
00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:17.440
by someone wrote to me and asked
me what I find to be a really

461
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:25.079
funny question. He said, why
do you write so beautifully? Yeah?

462
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:31.360
I said, I don't know how
else to write them. But then I

463
00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:42.719
gave it some thought and I realized
that transformation cannot just occur at the intellectual

464
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:47.559
level. It has to occur at
the artistic level, at the soul level.

465
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:53.480
So to go back to your question
of why spirituality marriage matters, spirituality

466
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:59.440
matters is because that's our catch all
phrase for that which moves the soul.

467
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:07.239
Yes, we do not create magic
in businesses because it's intellectually correct. We

468
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:16.400
do so because we're creatively inspired.
I completely agree, and that brings me

469
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:19.880
to the next thing. I wanted
it to serve up to our listeners and

470
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:23.119
viewers, and this is really it's
a profound invitation. It's a heartfelt,

471
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:29.960
soulful invitation to come with us and
to build a company. As Jerry says,

472
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:32.400
that your children would want to work
for that, my job would want

473
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.679
to work for that anybody's chid would
want to work for, and you can

474
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:38.440
do that. And actually, what
I'm very heartened by, Jerry, is

475
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:42.400
the work that I get to do
and the people that I associate with.

476
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:45.920
I see more and more companies and
leaders working and reaching to try to do

477
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:50.239
just this. It's so heartening,
it's so encouraging. So this is happening,

478
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:54.199
And so I was really just there
were so many things about your book

479
00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:59.280
that I just really thought were so
fresh. But you know, building an

480
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:02.920
organization as people can belong, not
just wealth creation for investors, but this

481
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:08.760
organization becomes the purpose of build,
for the purpose of building healthy, profitable

482
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:17.119
containers. I've never heard anybody use
that word of containers, but that opens

483
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:22.440
something really beautiful. It's way bigger
than culture when you use that word container.

484
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:27.039
So if you could speak a little
bit about this invitation that we're putting

485
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:29.519
forth here to build these kinds of
companies, what does that look like?

486
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:36.039
Sure, So I often speak of
the container of an organization and I'll hold

487
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:39.880
up a coffee mug of some sort, and I'll talk about how important it

488
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:45.639
is that the mug not leak.
It kind of defeats the purpose. And

489
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:53.880
so it's really important to have an
economically viable container to have a business that

490
00:45:54.760 --> 00:46:04.360
has a tomorrow. But I'll point
out that a container that lacks content lacks

491
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:14.559
meaning. Yeah, and content that
lacks container is useless. And so you

492
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:21.880
need both. You need to be
able to drink the tea that's in the

493
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:27.559
cup as well as being able to
lift the cup, lift the t to

494
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:31.119
your mouth, and so the two
go hand in hand. That one of

495
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:39.000
the misunderstandings, one of the myths
that we carry in business is that purpose

496
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:49.360
and the business of the business are
in opposition. Right, They actually go

497
00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:57.719
hand in hand. They create a
much more enjoyable hole and they give meaning

498
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:05.239
to the content to the container in
a way like nothing else. That is

499
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:12.960
what purpose is. That is mission. Well, there's a couple more things

500
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:15.440
I want to get out of you
if we possibly can. But I think

501
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:19.920
we would be remiss if we didn't
talk about this idea to achieve this,

502
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.559
or to at least contribute to achieving
this, of creating cultures of going first

503
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:28.559
where the leader starts this process.
So can you just speak a little bit

504
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:32.239
where maybe we're about maybe a minute
or so, yeah, even less.

505
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:37.960
I mean, this is why I'd
go deep and tell my story of searching

506
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:44.320
to understand who my father's biological mother
was. See, I understand that I

507
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:49.000
have a microphone. And if I
go first, and I do it in

508
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:53.840
a way that creates space for the
other, I am making it safe for

509
00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:01.719
you to go. So leading going
first means taking that risk, being vulnerable,

510
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:10.159
being the first to say, here's
what happened to me. Yeah,

511
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:14.280
you say, you know, when
those who hold power in any community share

512
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.519
their story with a genuine attempt to
say the unsaid, unwelcome things, you

513
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:22.400
know, I want to create possibility
of the connection implicit with and your story

514
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:25.559
is my story, but we foster
a safety that may make it possible for

515
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:30.880
those with less power to share their
stories. Yeah, that's it. Well,

516
00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:35.119
Jerry, it is as I think
you're quite. I think I've conveyed

517
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:39.079
to you that I'm really a beautiful
I'm just I'm heartened by your work.

518
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.000
I'm grateful to be connected with you. I'm really happy to share you with

519
00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:45.679
my listeners and viewers around the world. Just in our last bit, maybe

520
00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:50.639
thirty seconds, what would you like
to leave our listeners and viewers with hope

521
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:59.639
the world can feel like a dunster
fire, disunion and pain and suffering,

522
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:06.719
but do the hard work of seeing
kinfolk. You know, we are all,

523
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.199
as I describe in the book individual
fingers. On the same hand,

524
00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:19.440
we are all interconnected and interdependent.
We need each other. That's how we're

525
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:25.320
going to solve the problems together.
Community, beautiful soul. Thank you very

526
00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:29.199
much for being on Working on purpose. Listeners and viewers, we're going to

527
00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:32.039
want to stay connected to this man. You can find him. This is

528
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:37.320
Jerry Kaluna again. You can find
him on his website Reunion dot reboot dot

529
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:43.280
io. Let me say that again
for you. It's Reunion dot reboot dot

530
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:46.519
io. Check out his books,
check out his work, and if there's

531
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:49.440
a way to follow him, I'm
sure we're going to want to do that.

532
00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:52.679
Last week, if you missed the
live show, you can always catch

533
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:55.559
it rev recorded podcast. We are
on with Brad Dutzer talking about the same

534
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:59.920
topic of belonging, but viewed from
the lens of five actions he advises the

535
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:04.519
to include in their leadership from his
book Belonging Rules, and those actions are

536
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:08.719
turn into the power Listen without labels, choose identity over purpose, challenge everything,

537
00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:13.320
and demand one hundred percent of the
truth. Next week will be on

538
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:17.519
the air with Roger Feierstein talking about
his Solve the Real Problem book, Because

539
00:50:17.559 --> 00:50:21.800
what you think is the problem is
usually not the problem. See you there,

540
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:23.400
and remember that work is one of
the greatest adventures that we have and

541
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:28.119
means of realizing our potential and making
the impact we crave. So let's work

542
00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:34.400
on Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed
this week's program. Be sure to tune

543
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.559
into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on

544
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:43.519
W four C. Why Together,
We'll create a world where business operates conscientiously,

545
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:47.440
Leadership inspires and passion performance and employees
are fulfilled in work that provides the

546
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:52.639
meaning and purpose they crave. See
you there, Let's work on Purpose.