Leading for Belonging: The Brilliant Beckoning that Fosters Elevated Thinking, Connection, Performan

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W FOURCY Radio. What's working on
Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder

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the answer to this question. People
ache for meaning and purpose at work,

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to contribute their talents passionately and know
their lives really matter. They crave being

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part of an organization that inspires them
and helps them grow into realizing their highest

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potential. Business can be such a
force for good in the world, elevating

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humanity. In our program, we
provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in

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this world we all want working on
Purpose. Now, here's your host,

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Doctor Relise Cortes. Welcome back to
the Working and Purpose Program. Great to

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have you, Thanks tuning in this
week. I'm your host, Doctor Elise

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Cortes. I have been hosting the
show since February of twenty fifteen. It

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is a pride and joy of mine, so I hope you'll enjoy it.

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If you don't know me and we've
not met before, I am an organizational

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psychologist and logo therapist, speaker and
author, and my team and I at

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Gusto Now help companies en liven and
fortify their operations by articulating their purpose,

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building inspirational leaders and cultures activated by
meaning and purpose to turn those companies from

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a flatline EKG to a vibrant destination
workplace. There people are intrinsically motivity to

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perform at their best, can grow
into the fuller potential, and are committed

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to stay and dynamically deliver on the
company's mission. You can learn more about

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us and how we can work together
at gusto dashnow dot com or my personal

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site Elitscortes dot com. Now getting
into today's program, we have Brad Dutzer.

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He's the visionary leader behind Dutzer and
Dutcter Clarity Institute with leadership learning labs

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in Houston, New York, Bermuda
and Arizona. He has sought out is

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an authority and innovative thinker on matters
of organizational change, belonging, in complexity,

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in leadership. He's the author of
Leading Clarity, the breakthrough strategy Should

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I Do to unleash people? Profit
and Performance? Today we're talking about his

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latest book, Belonging Rules, Five
Crucial Actions that build unity and foster performance.

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He joked it today from Austin,
though his home base is Houston.

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Brad, welcome to Working on Purpose. Thanks for having me excited to be

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here. I'm so glad to hear
that I terribly and horribly enjoyed this book,

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young man. This is really something
you put out into the world.

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Thank you for writing it, Thank
you for thank you for reading it and

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enjoying parts of it. I tell
everybody, if there's something people like,

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then we did something good. And
I'm hoping there's a few things people like.

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People things people question and say,
what do you think of? Brad?

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It's wonderful And I, you know, as somebody who you know,

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I do a lot of work inside
organizations to develop leaders and I certainly speak

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a fair amount on diversity, equity, inclusion, and also adding of course

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the belonging and accessibility in here and
you taught me a ton about belonging,

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Brad, So let's bring it to
life for our listeners and viewers, shall

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we. Let's do it? Okay, Well, let's first start with where

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some of this came from. One
of the things I love about the work

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that I do in the purpose front
is you know, really purpose is that

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very unique lens each of us has
on the world that we can see things

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that no one else can see just
because of our unique experiences, our personalities,

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everything else. And you have what
I considered to be a pretty unique

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perspective on belonging, which, from
what I could tell, happened to you

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or began to be formed with you
in your childhood years. Can you tell

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us a little bit about some of
those formative years that helped this along?

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Absolutely? You know, it's interesting
as I reflect back on my childhood.

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I knew that I belonged because I
was blessed with a family that made sure

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I belonged. But in the world, I'm not sure that I was necessarily

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accepted. I was the outsider.
At school, I was the outsider.

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I was not a good athlete,
I wasn't a performed I didn't really have

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a place except for home, and
then I went to camp. And I

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spent fifteen plus years at summer camp, two months out of every summer,

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and it was there that I found
myself and I found where I did belong.

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I learned how to be a leader. And as I talk a lot

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about and we'll talk about today,
so much of belonging is about an invitation,

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and Camp gave me that invitation,
partly as a camper. But I

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think so much of who I am
and what I am really came from when

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I was a counselor and I had
the responsibility of young of leading young boys

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and young men. And it was
those times that said, you know what,

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this is where I belong. I
love to help. It's so beautiful

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and it's wonderful that you listen to
that call, and now what you're doing

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with it today is just is beautiful. So you're welcome. Let's kick this

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off a little bit here and just
let you situate why from you perspective that

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belonging is so important today. Belonging
is the antidote to so many things that

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are happening in society, in our
families, in our communities, and most

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of all, in our companies.
And what people aren't talking about today,

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is the fact that psychological safety,
that balance of fear and trust is completely

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off kilter. Psychological safety is going
down, down, down in organizations number

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one. Number two, our studies
are showing in decrease in optimism. People

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are going to work not optimistic about
what the future holds for them at their

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company. And I think there's a
bigger probably issue to that. It's not

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just their company, but in their
world. And then layer on top of

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that the political divide, the societal
issues that we face, and then one

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more thing, this epidemic of loneliness. We have a cocktail for a pretty

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difficult period of time that leaders have
to navigate through. And so what our

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work tells us, and what our
work has proven is is that belonging is

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the antidote. Belonging is the answer
to how we overcome that loneliness, how

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we begin to break the negative trends
of psychological safety, how we address some

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of the issues that leaders are facing. And we're talking about them through a

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lens oftentimes of well, it's just
our culture we got to fix or we

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have to address this strategically, and
the answer is no, there's a real

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focus that needs to be placed on
the concept, on the construct that is

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belonging. It's so beautiful with how
you've rendered that. And then of course

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we would be remiss at this point
if we didn't really now situate your specific

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definition of belonging. What does it
mean from your vantage point to belong So

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this was fast to me. So
when I started the journey of writing the

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book and doing our research, we
thought we're going to ask a few people

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and everyone's going to have the same
definition and belonging. And then we started

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asking and asking more and asking more, and the more we ask, the

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more we realized there wasn't really a
universally held definition that people walked around with.

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So it's one of the things that
we through research, through our work,

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we began to say, what is
that definition? How do we want

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to define it? People can take
the elements that they think are important to

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them and embrace them. So I
define belonging as belonging as a place.

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It's a space where we hold space
for something of shared importance. So at

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work, it may be our work
and our community, it may be whatever

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that is that shared importance, but
it's where we hold space for something of

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shared importance. It's where we come
together on values, on purpose, identity.

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It's a place where it's a place
of acceptance, where agreement is it

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required. We don't have to agree
to belong, but there's a shared framework

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that is understood in an organization or
in a family or whatever group we're thinking

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about. And it's where there is
an invitation in to that space and an

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intentional choice to take part in that
space. And we look at belonging as

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something that's really vital. It's vital
to connection to our own safety, our

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own security, and our own acceptance. And so to me, the core

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elements as I think about this,
it's that space. It could be a

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physical space, it could be another
kind of space. It's the idea that

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we don't have to agree in order
to belong, and it's understanding there's an

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invitation, and sometimes in our society
all that's missing is that hand reaching out

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and saying come on in red rover, red rovers and bread right over right.

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So one of the things that I've
really really appreciated about your work,

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Brad, that I think is a
beautiful and important nuance is you hear people

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talking about acceptance, and acceptance is
great when it comes to belonging, but

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that is just so not enough.
I love how you also emphasize that it's

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a it's about creating spaces where everyone
feels enjoyed, supported and accepted. So

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enjoyed and supported are really critical,
I think distinguishing elements here in your work.

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Yeah, it goes back to the
humanity. And I think that I

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think in so much of the things
that you talk about in it's about being

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human again. And we've lost,
we've we've lost. I don't know.

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I think leaders struggle thinking that you
know, we just have to be accepted

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and just I've invited you in and
that's enough, right, And what I

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think that society is telling us where
our workforce is telling us, but the

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people around ut for telling us,
No, we need more. We need

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to be enjoyed, we need to
be supported, we need those human connections.

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And one of the concepts I talk
a lot about is the idea of

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this human centered leader, the idea
of a leader that is being vulnerable.

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We don't have to be right,
we don't have to be it's okay to

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be wrong, but it's leading with
our hearts in a different kind of way

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that allows us to access that joy
and emotions that we've been told that doesn't

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really belong in the workforce. M
I can't tell you, Brad. I

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mean, I have so many guests. I've been hosting the show for nine

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years. In the last several years, we've been talking a lot about developing

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human leaders creating human centric works places, and the work that I do is

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something also very similar, doubling down
on humanity in an age of technology.

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And it's amazing to me that it's
twenty twenty four and we need to address

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these things, but we do.
It's important. I look at it and

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I say, on one hand,
it's amazing that we need to address it.

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But on the other hand, my
response to that is, thank goodness

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we're in this place where we can
do that. Well we can. It

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gives us. It's an unbelievable tool
that we have that is so underutilized,

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that is so misunderstood some of the
basics of human leadership. If we bring

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that to the forefront, if we
understand that positivity has a direct link to

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our performance, if we understand that
joy and happiness are part of our retention

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plan, we don't have to pay
people more, and we'll get into our

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research in a little bit. We
don't have to pay people more to feel

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like they belong. Quite the contrary, we have to create an environment invite

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them in value belonging. M.
Yeah, you're speaking to some of the

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similar content that I also practice.
So I am singing right there in the

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choir with you. All Right,
Well, let's let's treat our listeners and

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viewers here. I want to just
do a sort of a slight a light

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tour, if you will, of
the five crucial actions that you identify in

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your book to build unity and foster
performance. We won't go into a lot

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of detail into each of them.
Listeners and viewers, We want you to

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read the book to get the details
of this, but I do want to

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give you a flavor. So the
first rule is you call it turn into

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the power, which is really really
really powerful fun intended. Talk about that

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one if you would please, so
turn into the power. This is where

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we start. This is where the
conversation starts. What's happening in society.

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What's happening in society is we see
the power structures, or sometimes we don't

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see them. They're there, and
we're simply creating solutions, and we're creating

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workarounds. We're going around, and
what's happening is the solutions we create they

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are not effective, be they're not
sustainable. So all we're doing is putting

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temporary fixes. And what we encourage
people to do with turning into the Power

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is first recognizing what are those structures
in front of me. They can be

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leadership, they can be boards,
they can be policies, they can be

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any number of things in our own
personal lives that happen to be in our

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pathway forward. We are so used
to and we're just we're used to walking

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around them. It's easier to walk
around and not confront. But what our

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rules tell us is that when we
turn into the power, it's the first

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step. And how we create that
place for belonging that is it's so critical.

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And then you also talk about in
the book really how to start to

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get more aware of that those power
structures. Where are they? Because they're

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so if you will, of the
water that we swim in that it's hard

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sometimes to identify them. But that
is critical work and I really appreciate how

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you DeLine delineate that in the book. It's it's it's there are things that

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are there, and so some people
say, you know, it's easier for

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me to turn away and just go
do what I need to do as a

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solution. But the reality is those
structures are there, and sometimes they're necessary.

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Sometimes they're just part of our environment
we can't change. That's great,

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let's have a conversation about them,
why they exist, what the reason is,

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what the intention. At least we're
on the same page. But the

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fact is we're often not willing to
pause. I'm a big believer in the

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pause. We do a lot of
work with mindfulness and meditation and breath work.

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That pause is important, and that
pause forces us or allows us,

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gives us space to say what is
in front of us, what may be

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impeding my pathway to success? Mm
hmm beautiful. All right, Well,

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on that note, let's let our
listeners and viewers just kind of soak that

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in while we take our very first
break. I'm your host, Doctor Release

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Cortez, wait on the air with
Brad Dutzer, who's the author of Belonging

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Rules, Five crucial actions that build
unity and foster performance. We've been talking

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about why belonging is important and what
it really means, getting into some of

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the first rule here of his five. After the break, we're going to

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get into listening without labels and choosing
identity over purpose. Stay with us,

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will be right back. Doctor Release
Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and
author, she helps companies visioneer for a

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greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose
inspired leadership and meaning fuse cultures that elevate

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fulfillment, performance, and commitment within
the workforce. To learn more or to

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invite a lease to speak to your
organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot

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com. Let's talk about how to
get your employees working on purpose. This

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is working on Purpose with doctor Elise
Cortes. To reach our program today or

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to open a conversation with Elise,
send an email to a lease a lisee

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at elisecortes dot com. Now back
to working on purpose. Thanks for staying

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with us, and welcome back to
working on Purpose. I'm your host,

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doctor Elise Cortes, as I too, am dedicated to helping create a world

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where people realize their potential at work
and are led by inspirational leaders that help

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them find and contribute their greatness.
And we do business at betters the world.

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I keep researching and writing my own
books. So my latest one came

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out in March of twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization. How

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active geting, meeting and purpose can
radically enliven your business. And I wrote

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it for leaders to help them understand
the new playing field of workplace that we

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find ourselves in today and in terms
of what the workplace wants and how to

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motivate them. And then I offer
twenty two best practice stuff you create the

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culture to actually create that for them. You can learn more about it on

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my website at at least cooretest dot
com or just pick it up on Amazon

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if you are just joining me today. My guest is Brad Dutzer. He

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is known for coaching and leading leaders
through his company Dutzer and Innovative consultancy that

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designs a human approach to change.
Okay, so Brad, let's get into

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the next rule here. Number two
is listening without labels. And I really

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found that one interesting because of your
own experience with it. Yeah, so

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listen without labels is rule number two. And we live in a society that

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values the art of the response more
than we value just the pause and the

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thoughtfulness of listening. And so we're
so conditioned, the brain is so conditioned

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to need to be right, to
need to be relevant, that when we're

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in a conversation, the brain is
telling us, all right, I need

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to distill this concept down so I
can give you whatever answer I think is

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right. And what happens is when
we listen with when we listen without labels,

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most of us are listening by labeling
things. All right, I'm going

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to condense this the lowest common denominator. I've got this here so I can

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condense it. I'm ready to respond. I'm right on it. And what

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we encourage leaders to do is to
listen without labels. And as you as

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you alluded to in my own story, I was working with a university on

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a very high profile, very complex
issue, and a media outlet wrote a

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story, and the story when something
like braddit's are comma, who is white?

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Comma? And it went on to
talk about my work with diversity,

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equity, inclusion and all the things
that we do to build bridges and organizations.

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And for some you look at me
and you go, well, yeah,

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you are white. But what they
didn't understand is that label diminished the

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whole of my work, my expertise, my passion, my commitment to bringing

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people together. So labels can be
true, but they often tell us only

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part of the story, and they
often diminish the whole of the person,

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and so they become quite destructive.
We see that with generations. I see

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that in organizations all the time.
Well, this generation doesn't value this and

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this generation. But in my own
workplace, and I think in some of

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your work, when you talk about
meaning and purpose, what we know is

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is that different generations, they all
value meaning and purpose. And so we

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can't use the broad brushstroke to say
this big group or this person that looks

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like this, or this gender or
this xyz is this. And so we

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really encourage leaders to again slow down
the need to respond and be right and

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be smart and be really intentional about
hearing what is spoken. And I would

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argue, what is not spoken.
Sometimes we hear more by without words,

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just by being in that moment and
feeling someone's energy, watching the body language.

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And so it's the holistic kind of
approach to how we listen. I

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think that's really powerful, and you
know you also talked about it in the

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book of Course that, you know, the labeling piece. It's also part

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of our need and very fast paced
lots of data thrown at us all the

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time, just to make a quick
sense of things and try to organize it

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quickly. And so it's a natural
thing that we do, and it's important

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to be intentional to intervene in that. Intentionality is everything. Yeah, yeah,

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okay, So the next one I
have to say, I really chewed

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on because of what I do,
but I really got where you were going.

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Rule number three choose identity over a
purpose. And now let's talk about

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that one, all right. So
I knew we were going to have this

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conversation here. You were ready for
me, were you? I don't know

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if I'm ready, But here's what
I have to say with it. I

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think our work is very similar.
It is so when you talk meaning,

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when you talk about meaning and you
talk about purpose, I think it's it's

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an elevated this elevated sentence. And
so when I think about identity, I

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think about identity through a lens of
meaning, and purpose is one of the

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most important elements of identity. So
when I think about it, it's purpose,

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the why we exist as an organization, as a group whatever it may

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be. But we go further to
say that identity and the macro identity of

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an organization, building out that cultural
ecosystem of an organization. It starts with

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purpose. It includes characteristics what is
central, enduring, and distinct about our

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organization. We include values, what
do we collectively value? And then we

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also are big believers in behavioral behaviors, behavioral competencies that are the me part

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of it. So I look at
the me and we kind of give and

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take of an organization. I think
about identity of values and behaviors, and

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so we can add traditions and rituals
and things in that. But it's a

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holistic way that we look at creating. What is that social contract that we

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have with our workforce, with our
constituents, And it's based, it's grounded

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and purpose. But we simply add
to create meaning to to to that whole.

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And so that's how we see it. And I and I in the

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book, I give the example we
do a lot of work with NFL teams,

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with collegiate football teams, and I'm
always fascinated that when we have the

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purpose conversation with NFL teams, there's
the purpose from one organization to the next

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is often very similar. We want
to win the super Bowl, we want

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entertained, we want to give back
to our community, we want to you

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know, produce good returns for our
shareholders, whatever those are. There's a

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series of things, but there's a
there's a new does that differentiate and so

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to us, it's not about the
different uniform, it's not about the different

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city we put on. It's the
larger conversation around identity, starting with purpose

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as the driver to it. Okay, you're ready to really recognize even further

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how closely aligned we are? Tell
me. So once I finished that section,

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I went, oh, this is
I totally understand what he's saying for

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two reasons. One, I don't
know if you know this or not.

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But I'm a meaning in work and
identity researcher. So when I did the

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I did a large research postdoc research, and I really I discovered the elements

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of identity we people talked about identity
were the same segments that you were talking

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about, and there were also things
like roles and life defining experiences and things

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like that, perspectives you know,
kind of your mindset if you will.

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And so I went, I got
totally. I totally knew where you're going

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with the identity thing. And then
I also understood you really are talking about

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it as an overall package of culture, and I totally align with that.

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So different way of speaking about it, but we are completely aligned. So

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it was I was so delighted when
I realized that, you know, the

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way you were talking about an organizational
identity very much aligned with it, with

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the research, the inputs and the
what I call the ingredients of identity that

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I found too. That makes me
feel good. Yeah, people, people

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sometimes get tripped up and and I
name this rule what it is on purpose

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because there's so much conversation about identity
and we've we've gone to individual identities and

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enforcing those individual identities and saying,
hey, company, you need to change,

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and so I really felt it was
important to say, now we're going

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to have a bigger conversation. It's
about being part of something again. It

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goes back to that that that that
invitation into something of shared importance. This

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is what's important, and it is
that identity. I love it. I'm

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aligned Lockstep and Barrel. Let's go
okay. That brings us to Rule number

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four. Challenge everything and that is
so important to I can't. I know

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that you've seen it too, and
you deal with complexity on a big time

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scale. But I'm always amazed at
how I'm still hearing people say things like

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that's the way we've always done it. So Rule number four, challenge everything.

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Challenge everything. Challenge everything is one
of my most powerful tools that I

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have as a leader. And what
happens is most people think about challenge and

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conflict is the same thing. Yeah, so we think about conflict, and

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to me, conflict is two forces
coming together, horns locked and one having

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to be right the other having to
be right, and we're always staying where

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we are in that state of conflict. Challenge, on the other side,

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to me, is a creative force
multiplier and it's not something Again, what

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is society telling us be polite,
let's not speak out of turn, let's

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let's not challenge. I'm on for
that, or social media saying if you

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do challenge me, you're canceled.
And what we want to do is re

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orient the brain around challenge to say
that it's the most creative thing that we

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can do as leaders. There's a
powerful way to engage people in the art

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of challenge, and so in the
book we go through what we call the

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effective challenge and how this is a
way to create those environments. Again,

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the identity, going back to what
we just talked about, has to be

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right and safe for that conversation.
But then here's how in the book,

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we never tell leaders what to do. We want to give them a roadmap

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how to do it. So on
the challenge everything that's exactly how we think

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about creativity and creating. You know, our desired future states is challenge.

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We'll challenge the most basic things,
you know TVD and we'll we may talk

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about that later TVD. The world
says it's to be determined, but why

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give our power away? TBD is
to be designed. Yeah, we need

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to challenge the future and our place
in it as leaders, our control of

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it. And I think it's incredibly
exciting. And you know, to involve

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everyone, invite everyone, and involve
everyone in that design so exciting. It's

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that invitation in create belonging, bring
people in, be vulnerable, be that

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human centered leader. And what are
we going to get. We're going to

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get a solution that's bigger and better. We're going to create a more connected

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workforce and a workforce that stays with
us and performs at higher levels. M

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I agree, we're in step again
here. Okay, So this next one,

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I really there's so much to this
next one, so so so much

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demand. One hundred percent of the
truth is rule number five. And there's

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a few things I really want to
make sure that we hit on this,

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But you start and then I'll feel
in if there's something else that I want

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you to talk more more about.
This is the most obvious rule of them

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all. And most people would say, well, of course, I'm one

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hundred percent of the truth all the
time. But the reality and our research

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in our work shows that the highest
performing organizations are operating somewhere in that eighty

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eighty five percent range of the truth. What that means is we're not having

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the full conversation. You and I
happen to agree on this, this and

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this, the rest of the group
may not. So let's you and I

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go, let's the two of us. We're going to go talk about this

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later, because it's not worth getting
these other people involved in the conversation.

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What's happening is the most challenging conversations
we're not having as leaders. We're putting

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the diversity, the inclusion conversations off
to the side, the social, the

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political inputs that are impacting our workforce
off the side. Oh, by the

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way, not many boardrooms are talking
about loneliness. They're not talking about fear.

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That's stuff for that's the soft hr
stuff we can talk about. Let

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those people talk about it. No, those are the real things. And

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what our research shows us is is
that again, and you could be the

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company Yours could be the organization that
you say, hey, I'm better than

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that. Awesome, Are you performing
at ninety percent of the truth, because

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there's still a ten percent gap and
that GAP's big. What I thought was

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also really useful about that particular rule, Brad, with what you know,

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really how you called out that you
know, it's so easy imagining the people

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that the louder voices, the squeakier
of the wheels, and so hearing them

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but not only them, and really
inviting in and looking for the other voices

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I thought was really really important.
And then the other thing that I thought

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was critical about that particular rule that
I've never heard anybody talk about, and

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that was this idea of really gaining
commitment from what you call the middle the

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people there there that are often feeling
left out and underappreciated, and their talents

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go untapped, the contributions are not
well recognized. I think that is such

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a critical thing to talk about.
It's one of my favorite things to talk

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about. I call it the movable
middle. Yeah, And the problem we

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have today is that people don't know
how big the middle is. We often

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view it through a political lens,
and the right, the left, that's

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everybody politically, and and we take
those numbers and we often transport them into

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our companies. The reality is in
the workplace, the movable middle is a

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much larger section of our organization than
anyone wants to give credit to. And

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with interesting our work with the middle, this movable middle tells us that they

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just come to work, they put
their head down. This group is more

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afraid than any other group because I
say the wrong thing over here or over

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here, it's not what it does
to me at work. I lose my

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place at church, in my synagogue, I lose my place at my community.

404
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So the fear is real in this
area. This group wants to be

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heard, they want to be trusted, they want real information. And so

406
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this is a shift and it's a
big shift leaders who have fancy communication people

407
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:51.279
writing everything. So it's perfectly there's
no there's no ambiguity, and we're very

408
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:57.759
clear about all these different things.
It's so carefully orchestrated that the middle often

409
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:02.319
looks at it for what it is, not genuine, not authentic, not

410
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:07.839
real, and so beating to them. They immediately don't trust it. And

411
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:12.759
so if we give the middle what
they want, and that's the respect,

412
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:21.039
acknowledgment of their importance, the real, unvarnished, truthful information, and then

413
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:25.160
the last thing, we trust them
to do what they think is best with

414
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.400
it. It may not always be
what we as leaders think is best,

415
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:35.559
but what they think is best with
it, the vast majority of the time,

416
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.839
they are going to create something far
more powerful, a movement, far

417
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:45.279
more profound than anything that we can
orchestrate on our own. One love that

418
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.920
bred all right. Let's also let
our listeners and viewers chew on that as

419
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.279
we finish our last break. Here, I'm your host, doctor Release Cortez.

420
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:58.119
We've been on the air with bread
Dittzer. Is it Dittzer? Apologies?

421
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.400
Is pronouncing your name the first two
times? Brad Diitzer, who is

422
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:05.640
the author of Belonging Rules, Five
Crucial Actions that build unity and foster performance.

423
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.000
We've been going through the five rules
here in his book. After the

424
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:12.360
break, we're going to get into
this idea that he calls the Box of

425
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:30.800
Belonging. Stay with us, me
right back. Doctor Elise Cortez is a

426
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:36.000
management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She

427
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:40.800
helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among
stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning

428
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:45.840
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To

429
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:50.719
learn more or to invite a lease
to speak to your organization, please visit

430
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:54.400
her at Eliscortes dot com. Let's
talk about how to get your employees working

431
00:34:54.440 --> 00:35:05.199
on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach

432
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:08.159
our program today or to open a
conversation with Elise, send an email to

433
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:15.000
Elise A lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

434
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:22.800
Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm

435
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.679
your host, Doctor release Cortes.
I mentioned in the last break about my

436
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:30.079
latest book, The Great Revitalization.
What I did for you is I created

437
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.639
a three page assessment for you to
be able to take off my website digit

438
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:37.119
from the extent to which your workforce, your company is actually operating for today's

439
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:42.280
standards. You can find it at
Gusto dshnow dot com if you're just joining

440
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.440
me today. My guest is Bratdittzer, who is the Brad Ditzer. He's

441
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:50.880
known for his coaching and leading leaders
through his company Diittzer, which is an

442
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:55.280
innovative consultancy that designs a human approach
to change. All right, So now

443
00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:00.159
I love what you had here before
we get into the box of belonging or

444
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:04.880
I was quite compelled and also once
again aligned with your diets your leadership qualities.

445
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.760
Can you talk just about a few
of those that you are trying to

446
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:15.559
develop inside organizations? Yeah, we
have. We've identified thirteen competencies that that

447
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:24.239
we work to work with leaders on
navigating, understanding, impacting in their own

448
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:30.440
in their own unique way. The
ones that that that I work on a

449
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:36.119
lot. For me, I start
right at the heart of it with positivity.

450
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.960
It's a competency that I think is
misunderstood and I think it's incredibly,

451
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:45.599
incredibly powerful. So that's a that's
an important competency. It's it's something that

452
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:50.559
we work on in every meeting.
I work on it every single day,

453
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:55.840
and we we evaluate. We have
a very unique positivity quotion evaluation, both

454
00:36:55.880 --> 00:37:04.679
for individual as well as or organizations, and so how that manifests itself through

455
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:08.599
ourselves and through our organizations. I
think about leading change, I think about

456
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:17.519
dealing with ambiguity, communicating effectively,
or some of the competencies that I spend

457
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:22.320
a lot of time on for myself. Our company is known for being in

458
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:29.639
the most complex environments, and so
that dealing with ambiguity. If you're not

459
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:35.920
comfortable with ambiguity, it's hard to
be part of Dietzer or any of our

460
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:43.119
work with belonging because the work we
do is by nature very ambiguous. And

461
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:49.280
so those are things that I am
constantly working on, assessing, evolving and

462
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:53.159
trying to grow. And one of
the things that's interesting to me is I

463
00:37:53.239 --> 00:38:01.639
accept that I have strengths and there's
certain competence is that will never rise to

464
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:06.800
the top of my list, and
so I have a decision as a leader,

465
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.519
do I focus on my strengths or
do I focus on my weaknesses?

466
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:16.480
And so much of our practice is
about understanding areas where we're not as strong,

467
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:25.599
but really focusing and accentuating on the
strengths and the positivity of the strongest

468
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:30.480
the strongest competency. So it's a
it's a little different way to think about

469
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:34.199
it, but it's so core to
who we are. I aligned with that

470
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.960
too. I'm a gallops or by
strengths coach, so I certainly align with

471
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.199
all of that. And there are
the thirteen are listed in the book and

472
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:42.840
well developed. Time. Thank you
for just doing the light sprink looks.

473
00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:46.679
I wanted to now spend more time
here talking if we can first introduce in

474
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:50.800
the idea of the Box of Belonging. Now I love whenever we can we

475
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:55.519
can you can not reduce, simplify
into a model that we can actually get

476
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:59.079
our whole heads around. And you've
done that with the Box of Belonging.

477
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:02.039
Can you share than the basics of
it with us? Sure? Start with

478
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:07.400
the basics of the box. We're
all asked the question are you in the

479
00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:10.719
inside the box thinker? Are you
outside the box thinker? You know most

480
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:15.679
people raise their hands out I'm outside
the box because we think it's the right

481
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:19.199
answer. And then there's some people
say, well, I might be inside

482
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:22.360
the box, and what our research
has done is said, that's the wrong

483
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:28.519
question. It doesn't matter if you're
inside or outside, because what we what

484
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:32.079
our research tells us is that it's
the size of the box that matters.

485
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:39.599
It's the box that you create for
yourself or your organization of what's appropriate to

486
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:46.000
you. And so the most effective
leaders are the ones who work within the

487
00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:52.119
box. And the right shaped,
right sized box that drives creativity, it

488
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:57.440
drives innovation, and it drives performance. So the box that we think about,

489
00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:01.559
the box of belonging, has foreside
to it. And so the sides

490
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:07.880
are we break them up into two
quadrants, the agile or the the agility

491
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:15.960
kind of system and and the relational
system. And so the relational system,

492
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:21.519
the two sides in the relational system
are the social side of our box and

493
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:27.000
the personal side of our box.
And there's competencies that you can read about

494
00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.599
and kind of say, hey this
this makes up each of these and and

495
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:35.599
and and where are they? But
I think about social and personal as as

496
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:39.079
as as at half of the box. And that's how we deal with others,

497
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:45.199
how we interact, how we see
ourselves, and how we see others.

498
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:52.599
The the agile side, the agility
system. The agile system is how

499
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:59.039
we adapt how adaptable are we?
And how intentional are we? And so

500
00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:04.079
there are things within each of those, each of those quadrance that said,

501
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:08.079
Hey, the world is changing.
The environments that we deal with as leaders

502
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:15.320
are changing, and so how adaptable
are we? How intentional are we?

503
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.960
And so we take those competencies and
we put some of the competencies, each

504
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:25.760
of the competencies under each side of
the box, and encourage leaders to simply

505
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:32.599
reflect, to reflect on the social
the personal. Again, I always tell

506
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:40.360
people most of us aren't don't don't
don't label ourselves as school teachers. Yet

507
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:45.920
we tend to grade ourselves all the
time. We greade others all the time,

508
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:52.719
good bad, Well I'm not very
social or you know, my personal

509
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.800
side is not very good, And
it's not how we see the world.

510
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:00.440
This is who we are. And
as we try to understand our box of

511
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:07.840
belonging where we're going to invite other
people into. It's simply understanding where do

512
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:16.079
our strengths lie. Yes, thank
you for that. That was I think

513
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:20.639
that that's so accessive. I also
liked how you describe in the book people

514
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.920
that have a strength in one of
the four sides over the other and what

515
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:27.079
that looks like, which is well
distinguished. All right, So then for

516
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:30.320
this last little bit here, I
do want to get into that TBD that

517
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:34.320
you were talking about. I love
the whole notion of what you've situated in

518
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:38.000
your book, the promise of leading
to belonging. So I just that beautiful

519
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.480
space, and I want to read
a little bit and let you just kind

520
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:45.079
of chime in and expand it.
But you say to me, belonging is

521
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:47.039
where we hold space for something of
sheer importance, which you've said before.

522
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:52.239
But belonging is a way of life. And the only way to lead when

523
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:58.000
you believe and belong and believe you
in your future is TBD to be designed.

524
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:00.360
You create the world you really want
to live in, a lead in.

525
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:02.679
And I love that, Brad,
because it's there's so much promise in

526
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:07.280
that, there's so much hope in
that. There's there's evolution in that,

527
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:14.199
there's lift in that. And that's
how I see leadership. What do we

528
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:20.400
do as leaders It's it's that constant
evolution, it's the constant lift, it's

529
00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:25.159
the constant belief that no matter where
we are, there can be something more.

530
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:30.480
And so when we think about human
centered leadership, when I think about

531
00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:35.599
what it means to be a belonging
leader and saying, hey, this is

532
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:40.559
the this is the only this is
the only way to lead. It's the

533
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:47.679
only way to lead because leading requires
people to follow us. Leading requires people

534
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:52.719
to buy in. And so if
we can't give them a place, if

535
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:57.119
we can't give them a vision,
a dream to hold onto, it's hard

536
00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:00.840
for them to follow us. And
as we think about to be to be

537
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:07.000
determined tb D, it's just gonna
happen to be determined. You know,

538
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:14.800
we'll determine. We'll figure that out
later. We're ceding our power to someone

539
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:23.480
or something or somewhere else where we
where we reorient the brain to say TBD

540
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:30.559
to be designed, we take control, We lead, We lead with purpose.

541
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:36.800
We understand that if it is to
be created, it is up to

542
00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:40.000
us collectively to create it. I
love to talk about the fact that,

543
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:46.239
you know, we all talk about
the challenges we have in society and all

544
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:52.000
these different things, and we keep
waiting for a political answer, We keep

545
00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:59.280
waiting for society to come up with
some magic cure to lowliness and all these

546
00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:06.159
different things. But I believe in
our work shows that when we can lead

547
00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:12.000
and design in our own companies reconnect
the hearts and souls of the people and

548
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:16.199
our companies, we don't just lead
our companies. We're leading a greater good.

549
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:21.519
And it's our companies that are going
to be the solution. It's our

550
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:25.119
communities that are going to be the
solution for the greater society. And my

551
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:30.280
argument and my belief and our research
shows that it's belonging at the core.

552
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:35.199
When we create that, and we
create get the middle, that movable middle

553
00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:40.039
to belong they'll take us and they'll
follow us, and often they'll lead us

554
00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:45.480
and to a much brighter place.
That's the future I want to live in,

555
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:49.719
Brad. So I'm going to be
in the in the box with you,

556
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:53.199
in the boat with you. Okay. So we're getting close to the

557
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:57.079
end here, and I want to
give you the chance to leave listeners with

558
00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:00.280
what you are, whatever is on
your heart and your mind. You know,

559
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.000
I think probably now that this show
is listened to by people around the

560
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:07.920
world, they're tuning in because they're
either interested in elevating their own experience of

561
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.000
work. They're wanting to help create
those destination workplaces. They do want to

562
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.800
become a more inspirational leader. What
would you like to leave them with.

563
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:21.599
I think I would leave them with
the simple idea you can one of my

564
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.519
one of my one of my favorite
business books is Other Places of the Places

565
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:30.320
You'll Go by Doctor Seuss. Yes, outside yours in mind. But you

566
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:36.360
know, I think that I think
that leaders have to dream again. I

567
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:40.760
think that we need to take the
weights off of us and say that I

568
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:47.360
can I can design a different future. I may be in a department,

569
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:52.000
I may be in a division,
and my company may not want all of

570
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:55.599
that, but I can create this
space to bring people in, to invite

571
00:46:55.639 --> 00:47:01.599
people in. The power of the
rules is that they work for organizations,

572
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:07.880
they work for individuals. Try the
rules in your own lives. Think about

573
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:13.599
the power structures that are in front
of you. Listen to a family member

574
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:20.000
without labels. They're just my kid, They're just frustrated. Listen to the

575
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:23.800
whole of what they say. Think
about the broader construct Take the rules one

576
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:30.880
by one or all five wherever you
are. They become powerful tools for you

577
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:37.800
to TVD to design whatever future that
you want. And that you dream.

578
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:43.679
And I just tell people all the
time, turn the news off, turn

579
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:49.960
social media off, turn all the
negative influences, and realize we live in

580
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.599
a pretty special place and it's a
space that we can create and have control

581
00:47:54.679 --> 00:48:00.079
to create something really amazing, even
in the dark times, something there's something

582
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.639
bright just on the other side.
That is a great way to finish.

583
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:07.519
Brad, thank you so much.
Thank you for being on, working on

584
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:09.559
a purpose, share in your heart, your mind or research and what you

585
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:13.199
know and practicing in your work.
Thank you very much for being on.

586
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:16.880
Thank you. I'm honored and thank
you for what you do and the beauty

587
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:21.519
that you share out into the world. It's important. Thank you, Brad.

588
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:23.760
Listeners and viewers. If you'll learn
more about Brad Ditzer and the work

589
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:28.320
he and team do at Dittzer or
his books, you can start by visiting

590
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:30.199
their website. It's just simply dyetzer
dot com. But it's not the way

591
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.679
that it's not. You're not going
to be able to get this on your

592
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:37.159
own, so let me spell it
for you. It's d e u t

593
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:42.159
s e r Dittzer dot com.
D E d e u t s e

594
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:45.199
r dot com. Last week If
you missed the live show, you can

595
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.440
always catch it be recorded podcast.
We were on the here with Tamra Ryan,

596
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:52.199
the author of The Third Law and
the CEO of the Women's Being Project.

597
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:57.039
We talked about the magnificent work this
food manufacturing social enterprise is doing to

598
00:48:57.079 --> 00:49:00.400
provide job training and work to formally
incarcerated women. They are working to nurture

599
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:07.159
economic sustainability by enabling women to take
to gain self worth and self sufficiency.

600
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:10.880
Acquiring the tools to sustain themselves and
their families provide women with a second chance.

601
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:15.199
Amazing conversation. Next week, we'll
be on the air with Jerry Colonna

602
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.800
talking about his new book, Reunion, Leadership and a Longing to Belong,

603
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:22.880
which has another lens on the topic
of belonging we discussed today with Brad see

604
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:25.440
you there. Remember that work is
one of the most is one of the

605
00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:30.440
best adventures and means of realizing our
potential making the impact we crave. So

606
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:36.960
let's work on Purpose. We hope
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure

607
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:40.079
to tune into Working on Purpose featuring
your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each

608
00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:45.599
week on W four C. Why
Together We'll create a world where business operates

609
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:51.239
conscientiously, Leadership inspires and passion performance
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides

610
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.559
the meaning and purpose. They crave
see you there. Let's work on purpose.