Elevate Yourself to Enlightened Leadership

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hosts. Thank you for choosing W Forcy

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Radio. What's Working on Purpose?
Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer

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to this question. People ache for
meaning and purpose at work, to contribute

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their talents passionately and know their lives
really matter. They crave being part of

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an organization that inspires them and helps
them grow into realizing their highest potential.

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Business can be such a force for
good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance
and inspiration to help usher in this world

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we all want Working on Purpose.
Now here's your host, Doctor Release Cortez.

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Welcome back to Working and Purpose program
again this week. Great to have

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you. I have been hosting the
show since February of twenty fifteen, and

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it's great to have you. I'm
your host, Doctor least Cortez. If

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we have not met yet and you
don't know me, I'm a management consultant,

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organizational law of therapists, speaker and
author. My team and I at

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least Cortez and associates help companies to
enliven and fortify their operations by articulating their

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purpose and building inspirational leaders and cultures
activated by needing and purpose to turn those

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companies from a flatline EKG to a
vibrant destination workplace. There, people are

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intrinsically motivated to perform with their best
regular full of potential, and are committed

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to stay dynamically deliver on the company's
mission. You can learn more about us

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now we can work together at at
least cortez dot com. Getting into today's

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program, we have with us doctor
Matt Pepsil. He's the author of expand

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the Circle, Enlightened Leadership for Our
New World of Work, and host of

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Lead the People podcast. He serves
as VP of Enterprise Solutions at the Predictive

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Index. Today we'll be talking about
his concept of enlightened leadership and discuss a

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few tips to help develop it and
put it into practice. You judge it

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today from Cape Cod, Massachusetts,
doctor Pepsil, Welcome to working on purpose.

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Thank you so much for having me
at least excited about today's conversation.

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Me too, And as I'm prone
to do, I'm going to go ahead

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and just put this up here,
and I'm going to tell you something that

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you probably don't know about your book. Are you ready? I'm ready.

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What you did in creating this book
was easier than bringing a child into or

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harder than bringing a child into the
world. Do you know that? Yeah?

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I really, I've done both,
and so I can I can say

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it's true. It is much harder
to bring a book into the world than

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it is a child. So hats
off, my friend, Thank you,

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thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. So, of course you know you

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know that as I as I'm prone
to do, I read my guest books

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cover to cover, and I learned
a lot from yours. Before we get

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into some of the content, I
wanted to talk a little bit about your

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background because I think it's getting clear
to me that your background has informed as

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we us, all of ours.
Two, how we look at the world

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and our work, etc. So
let's talk about first, you were a

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sergeant in the Marines some moons ago
and you were serving as an Arabic linguist

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and radio reconnaissance marine. So interested
in what that experience taught you about life,

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about leadership, about what you do
now. Yeah, one of the

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first things that taught me was how
exceptional proper leadership development, how rare it

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is exceptionally rare, I should say. So. One of the things that

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I learned early on is that was
my first adult job. So I just

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assume this is how adults go about
learning how to do their work. They

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study leadership and they practice it,
and they take it very seriously. And

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it wasn't until I separated from the
military service that I realized that's not always

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the case, of course. So
the other thing I think that I really

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realized at an early age is that
not only do you have to study it,

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it's a craft that has to be
studied. It doesn't just happen and

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manifest on its own. You have
to take it seriously, but you also

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have to reflect on it, you
know, and observe what's working on what

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isn't in your own leadership. When
you're getting the results you want and you

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don't, and then you have to
practice it every day. It's that's just

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the deal. So those are some
of the most formative experiences I had about

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leadership in the Marine Corps. Awesome, and of course I know later on

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we'll figure out that you learn how
to layer in. That's it's an ever

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ongoing unfolding and you need to keep
reaching, so we'll get there. Okay.

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The next thing I want to talk
about, which I don't know if

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you feel like it's related or at
all or has any tenants of a relationship,

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but fascinating to me that you're also
an ironman athlete. That is no

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small deal. Let me if I
can break on what that is for listeners

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and years we don't know what that
is. And you correct me on the

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numbers on this, because I probably
won't get them exactly right. But you

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start this thing swimming what two point
one miles point four am two point four

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miles, and then you get on
a bicycle and you ride for one hundred

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twelve miles and then you finish that
little thing up with a marathon of twenty

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six point two miles on foot.
That's right, It's really something to witness

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Matt. When I was married,
my ex husband did one full iron Man

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two halves, and I gotta say, you know, it's it's something to

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watch somebody trained for that and it's
amazing to watch them compete. So talk

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to us about what it's like for
you to be an iron Man and how

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that contributes to how you see life
world leadership. Yeah, random a marathon

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a long time ago, and I
immediately was plunged into this almost like a

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minor postpartum depression where I wasn't happy. I thought the marathon is gonna make

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me happy, and it certainly didn't. A couple of years later, I

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learned of iron Man as a as
a feat right that people can can actually

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accomplish, and I thought, I
don't know that I could do that.

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And there was a part of my
brain that went off and it said,

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who said that? Let me?
And the rational part of my brain kicked

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in and said, well, let's
let's take an inventory here. You're painfully

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slow runner, you can't swim the
link of a pool, you don't own

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a bike, So let me makes
you think you want to do this?

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Is I'm doing it? So it
just started to decide that this was a

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goal that I wanted to pursue,
and it took four years of training to

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get ready for me to tackle that
race. That was still a painfully slow

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runner, and I learned I'm a
painfully slow swimmer and bike rider. So

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I was one of the slowest finishers
of one of the world's most iconic races.

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I have to share a quick story
that comes to mind as you're talking

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about So you're taking me back to
two thousand and two, and that's when

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my then husband did his first half
Iron Man in Kona, and I remember

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just think we all got up early
in the morning and they went down and

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got greased, all their numbers,
everything else. And the race starts and

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everybody's jumping into the sea to do
their two point four miles, and you

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know, and I'm just thinking,
man, that's a flurious stuff going on

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in there. I was really happy
to be observing from you know, the

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beach shore. Anyway, So as
they made their swimmers made their turnaround and

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they were starting to come back,
I noticed that, you know, people

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were getting out of the water and
walking very gingerly over what must have been

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very sharp rocks to get out into
the biking area. However, all of

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a sudden, I saw like three
people come, you know, running into

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the water and they were going to
aid the swimmer. I thought, so,

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but the this person gets help and
they reached in and they pulled him

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up. He has no legs,
oh, brings him into the bike area,

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and I went wow, you know, and I was like, that's

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so amazing. One of the greatest
things what I love about it for me,

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Matt, is it really showcases the
magnificence of the human spirit. So

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I see this guy card off whatever, and I did the leap frog through

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a race through and saw many of
the participants as the race wore on.

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After the race was over, I
told my husband about about This guy's name

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was Bear. I heard him say
their name Barrett, and he said I

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didn't see that guy. I said, oh, no, no, no,

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he finished way ahead of you.
Yeah. A similar experience where I

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was almost finished with the run.
I had done maybe one loop and there

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was like three to go, and
this woman pulled over on the side to

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greet her family and she was she
was nearly finished. She was well ahead

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of me and they were holding up
side iron mom. You know, they

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were rooting for their iron mom and
it was her first time she had done

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that race, and it was very
moving and I thought, I still have

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a long way to go. People
running with prosalytic limbs. I mean,

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it's just it's a it's a true
thing. So listeners and viewers, if

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you have never looked at on iron
Man, I'm not saying you need to

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go do on yourself, but just
go look at it. It's incredibly inspiring.

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So Matt, thank you for being
an inspiration that you did it,

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and it's fantastic. I'll tell you
the one thing too, at least not

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to spend too much time on this, but the other thing that I recognize

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is that I finished iron Man knowing
it wouldn't make me happy. So when

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we talk about elevation and personal growth, that was something that I still had

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the goal, but I let go
of this attachment to the notion that it

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was going to complete me or fulfill
me or give me self worth. I

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had abandoned that somehow between a marathon
that I thought was going to make me

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happy. I still finished iron Man, but not because I thought it would.

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But I still enjoyed it all the
more. It's beautiful. I loved

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being a cheerlead. Let me say, I'm happy to be a runner,

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but I'm happy to cheerlead on that
particular event. Yeah, okay, So

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let's talk about what you're doing at
the Predictive Index today. I'm known at

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this organization for many, many,
many years, but I don't know that

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I'm really clear about what it does
and certainly what your role is. Yeah,

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certainly, the predict Ve Index produces
what's known as a talent optimization platform.

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So when you think about collecting data
about people about the work that we

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ask people to do leadership at every
level, it's a really great opportunity to

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collect behavioral data as an example,
and really use it for our coaching and

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development, the way we hire people, the way we onboard them and grow

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them. You know, if we
do that without data, it's a little

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bit reckless. My role there is
to work with some of the largest,

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most complex accounts on the planet,
so working with clients in Fortune five hundred,

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federal government, some of the more
pioneering aspects, and really enjoy that

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work. I've been there over ten
years. That's awesome, that's so great.

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It should be like that as doctors. Who says you should enjoy what

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you're doing, so many people don't. That's part of the reason we host

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this show. Okay, so let's
get into some of the content here.

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What I want to do here is
I want to talk about some of the

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concepts that you talk by the book
that I think are pretty interesting, and

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then toward the end of the show, I want to get into some of

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the tips that listeners and viewers can
can start to apply to use what you

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put forth perfectly. So. So
one of the first things you said in

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the book that grabbed me was you
you said that many workers can adequately meet

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their basic needs, you know,
through most any any employer, but beyond

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that, they continue to experience what
you refer to as the three killer bees

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you talk about these killer bees.
Yeah, absolutely, it's it's something that

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if you think about the way that
we used to work to meet our minimal

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needs, it was fairly challenging.
You think about factory work and these sorts

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of things. Well, today,
if you think about what's truly required in

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life, a lot of our knowledge
workers, for example, could could meet

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those needs pretty pretty straightforward. But
when we talk about more existential needs,

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we've graduated to a point where we
expect and need and demand more from our

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work and than we ever have in
the course of human history. And when

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I started to think about this,
the three bees that I that you had,

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that I had talked talked about was
being, belonging, and something bigger

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than myself. Those are the three
existential needs that I feel that workers have

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really started to embrace. And I
kind of, to be honest with you,

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at least I kind of it was
kind of throwaway line from me.

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It was memorable, sure, but
it encapsulated something and people are like that,

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yes, that's what I'm feeling,
and they really just took hold of

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this concept and it really demanded that
I included in the book in a big

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way. The reason why I call
them the killer bees is because when we

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don't meet those needs, it kills
our performance and our productivity, our intent

186
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to stay, our loyalty, all
these things. And so this is where

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I believe that leaders in the future
are going to have to reconcile that it's

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not just pay that keeps people in
place. It's not you know, the

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old foodsball table analogies that we used
to use, but it is really helping

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people become something closer to their full
potential right, realizing and learning what they're

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all about and starting to manifest that, developing real, nurturing social ties with

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the people around them and feeling a
part of something, and then that something

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had better be something bigger than themselves
because their own self interests are too limiting.

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And I see this with people who
who are successful and realize that is

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this all there is? I feel
like there, I feel like I've missed

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something, and this opportunity to connect
our companies why with our individuals why as

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an example, hugely important. So
I feel like the three bees are here

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to stay, being in belonging and
something bigger than myself and the wise leaders,

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the more evolved, the more enlightened
leaders will recognize how to help people

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connect those dots for themselves within the
context of the company's mission. Beautifully and

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eloquently cited. Thank you for that, Matt. You know that I agree

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with every single last word that you
uttered, because that's the work that I'm

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trying to do in companies too,
is to help them create a workplace,

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a destination workplace where people can be
their best and they can realize their potential

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and it work. Is that wonderful
playground that I wanted to be instead of

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the bad negative for a letter work
that it is for so many people,

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very true. Further to this,
excuse me, you go on to say

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that, of course, you know
money isn't enough to retain workers, although

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you know workers are now better aware
of their own value, But you do

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go on to talk about job fulfillment
and the ability to be one's true self

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are among the three top deciding factors
for people to stay or to lead jobs.

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So I want to I want to
dig into that ability to be one's

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true self at work. Yeah.
Absolutely, well, And even before I

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comment on that, I think you
know, what I enjoyed about the book

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is that it doesn't include sources from
more new age. Sometimes we think about

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these woo woo type stuff. This
is McKinsey, this is PwC, this

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is Deloitte, These are you know, very specific, this is what's happening.

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And our management consultants, who you
know, we like to cite them

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for so many different reasons, they're
recognizing this as well. So I believe

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that was a Price Waterhouse Cooper's study
that you had cited there. Yes,

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it is. Yeah, and it's
so so critical when we think about the

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ability to bring our full selves to
work. So the diversity, equity,

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inclusion, belonging, all these types
of movement hugely important. But we're also

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talking about just strength. When I
feel like I have to hold something back

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because it wouldn't be appreciated at work, that takes energy from me and it

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makes me feel less than what I
truly am. And so how can a

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leader create opportunities, demonstrate an interest, maybe help individuals find out what their

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natural strengths are they may be hidden
even to them, and help them channel

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and find ways to express them through
their work. That's what's going to keep

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the workers in place. I see
so many gen Z employees coming into the

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workforce now, latest generation, and
the environment in which they're entering is crafted

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by people who are at the top
of that organization that are boomers and gen

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x and have a very different mindset
when it comes to work, and they're

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watching top talent come in the door
and it's a revolving door and they go

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right back out because they just are
not going to put up with having that

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sort of feeling about what work is
supposed to be for them, and we're

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it's supposed to lead them if that
does. If that it doesn't get scratched,

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you know, there's no penalty for
them to move on to the next

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opportunity. There's they're not seeing his
job hoppers anymore. So that's where I

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feel like that's got to come together. Beautifully excited. I want to give

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our listeners and dear as a chance
to chew on that, because I want

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to respond to what you said.
But let's take our first break here.

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We've been on the air with Matt
Pepsil. He is the author of expand

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the Circle, Enlightened Leadership for Our
New World of Work. He's also the

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host of Lead the People podcast serves
as the VP of Enterprise Solution at the

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Predictive Index. I'm your host at
least Cortez. We've been talking about about

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his background and some of the immediate
concepts in his book. After the Breaker,

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are going to cover a few more
and then get into the tips.

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Stay with us. We'll be right
back. Doctor Elise Cortez as a management

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consultant specializing in meaning and purpose.
An inspirational speaker and author, she helps

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companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused

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cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance and
commitment within the workforce. To learn more

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or to invite a lease to speak
to your organization, please visit her at

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Elise Cortez dot com. Let's talk
about how to get your employees working on

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purpose. This is Working on Purpose
with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach our

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program today or to open a conversation
with Elise, send an email to Elise

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ali Se at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

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Thanks for staying with this and welcome
back to working on Purpose. I'm your

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host, doctor Elise Cortez, as
I too, am dedicated to helping create

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a world where people realize the potential. I work like we've been talking about,

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and they are led by inspirational leaders
that help them find and contribute their

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greatness. And we do business at
Bettors in the world. I continue to

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write my own books, and so
one of my latest books that came out

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in March of twenty three is called
The Great Revitalization, How activating meaning and

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purpose can radically enliven your business,
and that's designed to help leaders understand what

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today's workforce really wants and then offers
twenty two best projects to help equip them

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provide the leadership and culture that can
actually can actually do. So you've learn

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more about my books and how to
get them out at least Cortez dot com

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if you are just now joining us. My guest is doctor Matt Pepsil.

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He's the author of expand the Circle, Enlightened Leadership for Our World, our

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New World of Work, and is
the host of Lead the People podcast.

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So if I can comment on while
you were just talking about with the new

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gen Z generation coming in their math
that I think is really fascinating. My

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daughter is a gen Z but from
when I talk about generations, I really

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like to think that every generation that
comes makes us better as as a species.

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And so you know, we when
we can I'm the very end of

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Gen X. We came in and
you know, we were we were we

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were interested in experience, et cetera, but responsibility but also just being there

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was a freedom element that there's important
to our generation. When when the Millennials

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or wise came in, they taught
us we didn't have to work eighty hours

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a week or even sixty hours for
that matter, and that they could that

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there was a way to be able
to do your work within through an expression

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of your values. And gen Z
is teaching us that we can and should

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expect that we can make a difference
in the world through the work that we

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do. There's purpose in that.
And because between the two of them,

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the WISE and z's, they will
the zs will be what thirty percent of

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the workforce by twenty thirty, and
then together the Y and Z will be

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fifty percent by about that time.
It's forcing the hand and that means that

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organizations must address the meeting a purpose
element if they want to stay. They

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want, if they want workers to
actually do something, to be able to

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bring their mission to life. And
it can't just be lips are of us.

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It can't just be your website that
says it. But then when they

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get inside the four walls, virtual
or otherwise, it turns out not to

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be true. I think that they've
proven time and again that if they take

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a job and it turns out to
be not what they thought it was,

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you know, they'll move on very
quickly, and more power to them.

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And I think many are opting for
the gig economy too as well, you

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know, But basically saying I think
that to some extent, corporate is reaping

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what we've sown when it comes to
showing disloyalty by having massive layoffs to try

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to make the numbers look the way
the street wants them to. And you

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know, gen Z is like,
we're well informed and we don't have to

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put up with that. We have
options, And so they're speaking loud and

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clear, both through their actions and
through just being vocal as they are.

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And I think the wise leaders will
listen and say, you know, the

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way that we were that we came
up, like I'm gen X, the

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way that my senior leadership would have, you know, communicated to me through

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norms and mores. What it took
to get to the top is not what

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it's going to take anymore. Everything
in the world of work has changed.

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We have to realize that, and
we have to be prepared to change along

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with it. I think it's great
news, and I'll comment on that more,

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but but I want to hear I
think that your idea of enlightened leadership

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is spot on. I think it's
time has come. Tell us about what

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you mean by enlightened leadership. Yeah, and when we talk about enlightened leadership,

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we're talking about taking new beliefs,
new attitudes, and out throwing out

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the old ones. I think so
much of what passes for leadership sort of

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state of the art thinking inside of
how we do management training programs today is

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actually fifty sixty seventy years old at
least, and it hasn't been updated.

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And so for me, when I
talk about enlightened, it's really kind of

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if you think about the age of
Enlightenment and coming out of the dark ages,

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and that's really what I like to
to channel in terms of an analogy

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and what I find in my personal
view of this and my own personal experience,

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it's been this infusion and an integration
of ancient wisdom traditions predominantly from the

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along with Western psychological science. And
I feel that we don't have to leave

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one for the other, We don't
have to go backwards in time. We

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can integrate the two and really bring
them together in a way that does light

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the path for the future. And
so that's when I think of enlightenment,

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I think that's really the opportunity we
have is to move past some of the

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outdated practices that are so common today
by turning to the past when there was

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a different time one that looks vague, you know, very familiar to for

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example, the gen z that you
pointed out, meaning and purpose. These

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are not new topics over the course
of human history and philosophy. We just

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need to have the courage to you
to go there and to bring it bring

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it in. Yeah, and I
think people, organizations and layers need to

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be equipped to do that. It's
it's it's so obvious, but it's not

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immediately natural. And that's why I
like doing the work that I do.

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So Okay, so now from here, I think now is a good time

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to bring in and introduce that you
have been long studying Buddhists. So where

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did you get that interest and what
do you what has that practice taught you

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again about life and leadership? Yeah, you may have had the same experience

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as I did once and we started
our doctoral programs and one of the things

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that they asked is to do so
I'm just getting started. I was so

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excited I enrolled in this PhD program. I knew it was going to be

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you know, four to five to
six years of study and dissertation work,

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etc. Very first class. They
said, you have to find somebody who's

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practicing in an area similar to what
you might want to do, so you

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can interview them and just just learn
about them. Okay, great, so

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I said, I found an executive
coach in Brookline, Massachusetts. Got on

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the phone with this person and he
said, before I tell you anything about

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what I do, tell me about
what you're trying to do. And I

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had not really thought about how to
articulate the answer that question, I said.

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I said, well, sir,
I look around and I see people

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suffering, and I see them regardless
of socioeconomic status, their level in the

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organization, their skills, there's nothing, there's no commonality. I just see

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people suffering and I want to help
them. And he said that to me,

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sounds like a bodhisattva, and I
said, I have no idea what

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you're talking about. Come to find
out that he was referring to a realized

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being within Buddhist philosophy that has basically
worked really hard to drop a lot of

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the negativity that comes along with the
human condition long and grained. But rather

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than enter into nirvana their state,
they stayed behind to help everyone sort of

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realize and make a similar achievement before
you know, moving on to the next

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stage. And so I found that
very compelling, and I thought, well,

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let me look into this a little
bit. And I had a friend

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at the time who had studied a
little bit more than I had, and

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gave me a book on that was
called The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.

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And I read the book and it
was very interesting, but I got

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busy with life kind of put it
on the shelf and didn't really look at

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it for another fifteen years or so. And then right during the pandemic,

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when all of us had a very
profound experience about our work and our life

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change and a reprioritization, if you
will, I started to have the same

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questions of what role do I want
work to play in my life? And

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I didn't have the answers, and
so I went back to my bookshelf and

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I found that book that I hadn't
looked at in fifteen years, and it

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said, in order to before we're
going to die, in order to die

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well, we have to first learn
how to live well. And I said,

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well, I knew that first part
was going to happen. You know,

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I'm ready. I'm right in the
middle of my midlife crisis. Is

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fine, I'm I'm not terribly afraid
of my mortality, but that that middle

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part, or the second part about
learning how to live well, I said,

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Man, that's not me right now. So that brought me back and

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I started to sharpen up my studies
and really kind of delve into the philosophy

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of it a lot more. I
really appreciate that story, Matt. A

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couple of things to add on to
that or to comment on. As you

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and I talked about before we got
on air, I am and increasingly got

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my finger on the pulse that there
is so much talk going on about elevated

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consciousness and wholeness, integrity and its
even the spirituality of our connections, etc.

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And I've had some amazing guests on
the show. We're doing remarkable work

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in that realm. And then just
recently I happened to somebody recommended me and

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I did read the whole book.
Author excuse me, actor and author Rain

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Wilson wrote a book called Soul Boom, and it's why we need a spiritual

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revolution. Anyway. He puts forth
this idea of this new this idea of

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what that could look like. It's
pretty interesting and compelling, and by the

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way, listeners and viewers, if
anybody knows how to get a hold of

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that man, and I would love
to have them on my show. But

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so really interesting and I appreciate so
much. And I agree with you.

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And you wrote in the book too
about this, about how the pandemic elevated

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our desire to want something more meaningful
from our lives, less big, less

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busy, and more meaningful, and
I completely agree with that. Yeah,

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And I also feel like there's this
technological advancement that we've enjoyed for decades now,

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and it seems like every day there's
a new capability and new gadget.

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Some holy can I can't believe this
is It works this way, but it

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hasn't absolved the reality that there's a
fundamental part of the human condition that's challenging

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to us. And I think there
always will be, you know, no

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matter how much advancement we get,
how much we think we can make things

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efficient and run a certain way.
People you know, in their mental health

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state right now is worse than it's
ever been by many measures. And I

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think there's a certain price to be
paid for the pace and constantly the driver

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consumerism, etc. You can't engineer
yourself out of the human condition. And

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so I think when people see that
and they hit the boundary of what we

409
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.440
can reasonably expect, we're left with
those existential questions. And I think that

410
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.920
might be one of those things where
people realize that we're so comfortable, we're

411
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.880
miserable and they're looking for a way
out. And I think that bringing consciousness

412
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:55.920
into the work and having seeing works
as a pathway to our full potential and

413
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:59.240
forward progress, you know, as
a society. I think it's very compelling

414
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.480
for an increasing percentage of the working
population. I know it is when I

415
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.039
go out and to what instance to
speak about that, I mean, people

416
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.160
are leaning forward, like yeah,
I want that. And to that end,

417
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:15.039
I want to also share. You
talk about Martha Beck, who's an

418
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.359
author and a Harvard trained psychologist in
your book, and I really like how

419
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:22.680
you quote what she talks about the
importance of, you know, bringing our

420
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.960
full and genuine selves to work,
which we've been talking about, but you

421
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.119
talk about in her book the Way
of Integrity, finding the path to our

422
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.079
true self. You write and you
quote of her, when you experience unity

423
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.720
of intention, fascination and purpose,
you live like a bloodhound on a scent,

424
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:42.079
joyfully doing what feels truest in each
moment. Isn't that beautiful? That

425
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:47.759
is incredibly stunningly beautiful, achingly beautiful. Yeah. So when I read that

426
00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:51.400
research at the time, and she
really talks about integrity is in a form

427
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:53.079
of like structural integrity, like an
airplane. If you're writing in a plane,

428
00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:57.799
you're hoping that it has structural integrity, not just not just merely the

429
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:03.680
ethics and the truthfulness of that word
sometimes. And I think that that's very,

430
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:06.599
very fair. But I think what
I came to learn later, through

431
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:10.359
the course of many conversations and research
as well, what holds us back from

432
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:14.880
being our full integral selves is fear. It's fear. And I saw fear

433
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.960
show up time and again in our
relationships and in our organizations. It's what

434
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:23.960
prevents psychological safety. But you know
what, it also deeply affects us individually.

435
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.319
So I feel like what prevents us
sometimes from bringing our full selves to

436
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.640
work is not merely that other people
are tamping it down. It's that we

437
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:36.319
ourselves are holding ourselves back because of
fear. And so I had not gone

438
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.680
into this book project expecting to see
fear show up the way that it did.

439
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:47.720
And it was very impactful for me
to see that beautiful And by the

440
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.119
way, Matt, you know,
as I'm a connoisseur of books, I

441
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.799
read a book every single week for
this radio program and other books as well.

442
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:57.400
I really like your writing style.
It's just so easy to read.

443
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:02.319
I love how you introduce the authors. I love how you use pause to

444
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:07.039
be able to interact and engage with
us readers. It's lovely. Thank you

445
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.079
so much. Yes, I was. I really enjoyed the writing process.

446
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:14.039
I think it's something that not everyone
does. I get that, but the

447
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:17.079
chance to do a long format piece
like this and really do the research and

448
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:19.079
learn how to become a better writer
is something that is It was part of

449
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:22.920
the process and something that really connected
me to the work. So I really

450
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.480
appreciate you saying that. I see
you consume a lot of books. It's

451
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.519
very impressive. Yeah, thank you. You're very welcome. It's really beautiful.

452
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:32.720
It's important for me for me and
to be my true self, is

453
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:36.799
to acknowledge when I see my guests
doing something amazing, I want to be

454
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:40.279
sure and tell themselves so well,
And you mentioned so as we're on the

455
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:42.000
topic too, you know, I
was, I was afraid. I was

456
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.160
afraid to write this book. I
was afraid to be authentic and share some

457
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.720
of my more advanced thinking and concepts, things I haven't figured out yet,

458
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:55.039
and be as i'll say, vulnerable. I guess it's transparent as possible about

459
00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:57.119
you know, some of the underpinnings
of my work, and also to use

460
00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:00.599
humor. You know, I'm not
saying it always war, but I try

461
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.279
to incorporate some humans. That's a
natural part of who I am. And

462
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:07.079
if I was to try to write
a strictly academic book, it wouldn't be

463
00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:11.240
me. And not everyone's going to
groove with my book. I get that,

464
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.599
because you know, I'm not for
everybody either. But it took a

465
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:22.160
certain amount of willingness to pursue the
integrity I was writing about in terms of

466
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:25.480
embracing an authentic writing style. But
I tell you in the end, I'm

467
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:29.240
glad I did. I understand,
my friends, I really understand you are

468
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:32.680
being vulnerable. You are putting yourself
out there in a very very vulnerable way

469
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.400
when you put your words, in
your thoughts out there. I get it.

470
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.400
Yeah, sure, that okay,
So now we got to do something

471
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:42.319
totally different here that I just think
is really really fantastic. In your book

472
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:47.400
that I just riveted on, you
went on and talked about a couple of

473
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:51.400
studies here that really spoke to the
idea of empathic capacity, and you write

474
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:56.880
about rats and babies, and I
am really compelled by that research. Would

475
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.119
you just briefly talk to us a
bit about, you know, how these

476
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:06.559
two pieces of research relate to our
empathic capacity and our ability that on that

477
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:10.720
neurobiological level to connect with each other. Yeah. I found that the study

478
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:15.920
with rats was just incredible. So
what had happened is the research team put

479
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:19.200
a rat in a cage, and
they had a second cage, a smaller

480
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.519
cage in the center, and they
would put a toy rat in there,

481
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:27.839
and the rats that the subject rats, would not free the toy rat at

482
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:32.680
all, but if they put another
rat into the trapped in the center cage,

483
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.440
they would spring the cage open so
that the two of them could kind

484
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:37.240
of run about together. And so
you're like, okay, that makes sense.

485
00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:41.359
But then when they decided to up
the stakes a little bit, they

486
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:44.680
put chocolate in the cage, and
so now the rat had the free rat

487
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:48.359
had the chance to either eat all
the chocolate or to help its buddy,

488
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:52.480
and it's sprung its buddy before be
consuming all the chocolate, and you're like,

489
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:56.200
wait a second. They could either
sense the distress in the rat,

490
00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:02.000
they felt some empathic connection, they
acted in this altruistic way, and and

491
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:06.759
so it really showed sort of the
biological basis of empathy in that way.

492
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.799
Well, the complimentary study about babies
was fascinating to me too, because there

493
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.960
was this I'll summarize it very briefly, but there was a research team at

494
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.680
Yale who put together a puppet show
and basically had these toys acting out either

495
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:27.279
being a helper or a hinderer to
a third toy that was trying to achieve

496
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.880
its goal. And then at the
end they were putting on this play for

497
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.880
a baby, and so they would
go to the six month old or whatever

498
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.400
it was baby and say, okay, here are the toys that we just

499
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:39.880
featured in the play, and without
fail, it would reach for the helper

500
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.599
toy and it wouldn't want to play
with the hinderer toy. So it's almost

501
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.640
as if like at such an early
age, we're prewired for this. Later

502
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.400
on in that same chapter, I
do bring in the neurobiological research from doctor

503
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:54.880
Helen Reece and others who are actually
studying empathy, and it makes sense that

504
00:32:54.920 --> 00:33:00.799
we're as a survival mechanism or for
whatever reason, it's wired into our brains

505
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.279
to have empathy. What that means
is that when we act in a way

506
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:07.759
that's not empathic, when we're more
self oriented than other oriented, we're actually

507
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:14.799
over overwriting our natural wiring and there's
something causing that to happen. Again,

508
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:19.599
back to fear, So it's it
was fascinating a tight little chapter there with

509
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:23.319
lots of different inputs for us to
kind of gnawn. I thought it was

510
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:27.960
tremendous. I really really jam when
I when I can read about things that

511
00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:31.119
really take me out of the you
know this standard leadership or a business from

512
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:35.119
and really make me think. So
it was beautiful. Mat I tried to

513
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.640
do that a couple of times.
We're pulling in some unexpected sources of inspiration

514
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:43.440
and some analogies that might not be
be everyday analogies, because I think we

515
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:45.240
all those of us who study the
craft like as you do, as I

516
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:50.279
do and your listeners do. We
consume a lot of content and you start

517
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:52.720
to hear some of the same analogies
over and over again, or the same

518
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.160
people get cited, and that's great. But I think that giving some people

519
00:33:55.200 --> 00:34:00.319
something unexpected it kind of opens the
mind a little bit and creates an opportuned

520
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:01.799
to plant some new seeds. And
that was very deliberate on my part.

521
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:05.839
Well, I loved it. In
fact, we're going to cover one of

522
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:07.159
those in just a second. Here, I'm gonna I'm gonna dangle it in

523
00:34:07.199 --> 00:34:10.239
just a second. So I'm your
host, doctor Elias Cortez. We're going

524
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:14.719
on the air with doctor Matt Pepsil. He's the author of expand the Circle,

525
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:17.719
Enlightened Leadership for Our New World of
Work. Is also the host of

526
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:22.679
Lead the People podcast. He serves
as the VP of Enterprise Solutions at the

527
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.480
Predictive Index as well. We've been
talking a bit about some of the content

528
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:29.519
of a book here again that relates
to the importance of just bringing our full

529
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:31.559
self, meaning all the sort of
thing. After the break, we're going

530
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.079
to first talk about what we can
learn from what has been learned from near

531
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:38.800
death experiences, and then we're going
to also get into some of those tips

532
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:43.000
that you can actually use immediately in
your own leadership. Stay with us,

533
00:34:43.000 --> 00:35:01.639
We'll be right back. Doctor Relie
Ease Cortez is a management consultant specializing and

534
00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:07.559
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker
and author. She helps companies visioneer for

535
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:13.320
greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate

536
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:16.800
fulfillment, performance, and commitment within
the workforce. To learn more or to

537
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:21.960
invite a lease to speak to your
organization, please visit her at Elise Cortez

538
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.119
dot com. Let's talk about how
to get your employees working on purpose.

539
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:36.159
This is working on Purpose with doctor
Elise Cortez. To reach our program today

540
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:40.760
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise ali Se

541
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:52.079
at Elise Cortez dot com. Now
back to working on Purpose. Thankteresting with

542
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.440
us, and welcome back to working
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor

543
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.639
Elise Cortez. As I mentioned in
the last break about my latest book,

544
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.199
The Great Revitalization That's Out, I
want to did to accompany. That is,

545
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:04.679
I created an assessment for you to
be able to see if to what

546
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:07.880
extent your organization actually is activated by
and working for meeting a purpose. You

547
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:12.679
can find it on my website at
least Cortes dot com and then navigate to

548
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:15.239
how we can help tap to actually
find it if you're just joining us.

549
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:21.199
My guest is Matt Pepsil. He
is the author of Expand the Circle,

550
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:23.599
Enlightened Leadership for our New World of
Work, and also the host of the

551
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:29.760
Lead the People podcast. So before
we get into this idea of near death,

552
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:31.519
which is fascinating in and of itself, I do want to go back

553
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:37.039
and connect the dots for our readers
and listeners here. So back that story

554
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:42.079
about the rats and the babies and
the empathy and their neurological connection. There

555
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:46.079
you talked about one tip that you
put forth in your book was to increase

556
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:51.119
your awareness and appreciation regarding how we're
all intrinsically connected in ways that we don't

557
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:53.880
always consider, and tap into our
unique human bond to boost the flow of

558
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.840
positive intent and action between us.
So, what does that look like in

559
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:00.599
the real world? What is that? Can you put that forward for us

560
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:04.320
in terms of an example of what
that looks like, how somebody could actually

561
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.760
do that. Yeah, I think
one of the examples that I see quite

562
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.159
often right now is change management.
You know, we're often as leaders in

563
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:15.559
a position where we're trying to lead
our organizations and help them navigate some sort

564
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:20.559
of change. So let's say that
I'm working with an individual and I'm asking

565
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.639
them to change up something about the
way they approach their work or whatever it

566
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:29.679
might be to accommodate and support this
bigger organizational change. Well, if I

567
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:31.360
come at from my me issues,
right, I'm like, we've got to

568
00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:35.639
get this done. We've been talking
about this for weeks at the executive level.

569
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:37.000
It's now time for us to go
all eyes are on me. I

570
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.800
got to make sure my function in
my department is like on board with this.

571
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.119
Wait a second time out. You
have an individual, you know,

572
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:50.039
who's in your office, virtual or
otherwise, and they're dealing and processing this

573
00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:53.159
change. So knowing that we're connected, back to your question, have you

574
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:57.480
ever been on the receiving end of
change? Like, how did that feel?

575
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.760
Like you have that shared experience?
Can you find that opportunity to not

576
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:07.639
sort of come from that place of
I'm driving, I'm leading in this egocentric

577
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:10.000
bit, but to realize like we've
all been there, like this is a

578
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:15.559
shared experience that we have or Let's
say that you know you have like like

579
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:19.440
in my life right now, I
have older pets and they're all not doing

580
00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:22.280
so well right now. Has the
people that I worked with have do they

581
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:25.320
have older pets? Have they lost
a pet? Like? What does this

582
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.840
have to do with work? It
doesn't. It has to do with human

583
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:31.239
connection, and that's what work is
built on top of. So I think

584
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:36.719
the ability to recognize that we're more
connected both in terms of our shared experience

585
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:39.079
is much less the metaphysical aspects that
I talk about a little bit in the

586
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:45.400
book as well. It's just about
understanding the universality of the human condition and

587
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:50.039
using that as a way to make
sure that we're understanding that level of connection.

588
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:54.880
You know that, I love that
beautiful. Okay, So now I've

589
00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:59.159
already mentioned this. I do want
to get into what you addressed in your

590
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:01.639
book about your experiences and some of
the literature and studies that you read about

591
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:04.719
that and to do so, let
me just set it up here for our

592
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:08.280
listeners and viewers. You say in
your book that in less than an estimated

593
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:13.840
five percent of cases, subjects reported
having a negative experience, such as feeling

594
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:17.400
themselves in a sensory deprived, black
void, and then you went on.

595
00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:22.840
Fortunately, positive near death experiences are
much more common. In these cases,

596
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:27.440
the subject often reports having had a
sense of timelessness, peace, cosmic unity,

597
00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:30.519
a profound connectingness to others, and
being the recipient of unconditional love.

598
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:36.280
That's pretty pretty miraculous. Yeah,
it sounds better. Let's go with that.

599
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:39.360
It does. Yeah, well,
it's unusual to open up a leadership

600
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:44.760
book and start reading near death experiences. I acknowledge and admit that, But

601
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.880
I think the reality is, if
we're truly going to step into the definition

602
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:52.119
what leadership is all about, Leadership
is about life, Leadership is about love,

603
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:53.880
and I think you can't escape it. You can try to pretend like,

604
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.199
you know, the work we do
in organizations very superficial and just kind

605
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:00.719
of hang out the surface of the
water, but it's not the full depth

606
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:06.039
in the domain of leadership in my
opinion. So when I decided to write

607
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:08.719
this framework of mine, and I
teach in the book how to lead yourself

608
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:12.320
and how to lead others, and
lead your team, lead your organization,

609
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:15.920
finally get out to lead the world, and you're talking about again, inspired

610
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:17.960
by some of these meditative techniques,
how do you stretch as far as you

611
00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:22.800
can you reach the limits of kind
of what we know. So for me

612
00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:25.320
that led me to study research from
Bruce Grayson, and he's out of the

613
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:29.840
University of Virginia, talking about in
a book of his called After that was

614
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:36.199
all about documenting scientifically as we can
near death experiences. So for me,

615
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:39.239
what this really showed in terms of
this research was, I don't know if

616
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:44.360
i'd call it reassuring, but I
think it's it's beyond you know, coincidental

617
00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:47.639
that across all of these different demographics
and parts of the world, and they've

618
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:52.760
done so much research about people who've
had near death experiences to see the commonalities.

619
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:57.639
It was very, very compelling to
me that there's things that we absolutely

620
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:01.239
just don't understand but that are absolute
part of that type of an experience.

621
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:05.559
Yeah, it was really compelling.
And to your point, I love that

622
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:09.360
you introduced something that otherwise wouldn't otherwise
show up in a leadership book and I

623
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:14.840
really commend that. And to take
that further that one of the other tips

624
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:15.800
that you give us here, And
by the way, listeners and viewers,

625
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:20.400
what he does so beautifully is you
know, he's got all this beautiful conceptual

626
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.360
framework. But then he gives you
all of these tips and takeaways at each

627
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:25.239
at the end of each of the
chapters. It's awesome. So one of

628
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:29.599
the tips that you give us is
you call it says go beyond, and

629
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:31.679
you say, don't ignore the existential
questions that shape our lives and our work.

630
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:35.400
Kind of what we were talking about
before, and to push past the

631
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:38.760
boundary and connect with your enlightened leadership
potential. So again, what does that

632
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:42.480
look like on the basis of what
we were just talking about. Yeah,

633
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.079
if I think back to some of
the most memorable conversations I've had and the

634
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:52.400
most connection I've had, the most
breakthrough realizations I've had with co workers,

635
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:58.199
it's often come from these pushing the
boundary type conversations. I remember an old

636
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:00.800
boss of mine. We would stay
in his office late at night. We

637
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:04.760
talked about quantum physics and he was
very into this and telling me things and

638
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:09.400
this is not the normal stuff of
a business conversation, but we effortlessly weaved

639
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:14.440
you know, concepts of work and
beyond work and all these kinds of things.

640
00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:17.360
And uh, and in fact,
I was I learned about Bruce Grayson's

641
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:22.440
work from near death experiences from a
coworker. And so if I had only

642
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:29.320
restricted our conversations and we were only
comfortable having those superficial hallway type conversations that

643
00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.840
we think work is supposed to be
about, and let's not go to those

644
00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:37.480
existential type questions, what a missed
opportunity, not even just to you know,

645
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:42.400
deepen ourselves, but to truly practice
leadership. So you know, we

646
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:47.039
don't want to go beyond whatever someone's
comfortable with. Proselytizing and going deep into

647
00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:52.880
dogma is never okay. But I
think that being willing to explore together sort

648
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:58.599
of and pressing those boundaries beyond what
is conventional, I think has been some

649
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:04.159
of the most landmark, most progressive, the most beneficial the way that I

650
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:07.440
can show up in my leadership for
those around me. They comment to me

651
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:10.440
later and talk about the impact that
I've had on them because of a willingness

652
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:15.920
to go there and to really explore
those things together. So I don't want

653
00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:22.480
to see us miss an opportunity to
truly demonstrate leadership because of very outdated conventions

654
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:27.280
are very isolationist type thinking. Totally
agree, which is why the last chapter

655
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:30.920
and the re revitalization is on spiritual
intelligence in the workplace, So in cultivating

656
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:35.599
that so for me, they'll see
only kind of conversations I like to have

657
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:37.039
if you're not going to shore,
so with me, don't waste my time.

658
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.480
It's one of my mantras which is
really great for dating. Let me

659
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:46.039
tell you you ever see anybody run
so fast? Well, and here's the

660
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:51.400
other thing that's important too, leadership. I'll give you the cliffs Notes version.

661
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:53.800
It ain't about you, right right, It's about the mission and it's

662
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:58.400
about them. Like the more you
can remove yourself and the ego from the

663
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:01.519
equation and sort of be an interest
for this to flow more naturally, all

664
00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:06.280
the better. Well what does that
mean in terms of you use the S

665
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:08.559
word, Oh my gosh, spiritual. Well, here's the reality. When

666
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:14.519
you start looking at the new entrance
to the workforce that are more exploring,

667
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:19.079
more comfortable with everything from from yoga
to this, that and the other thing,

668
00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:22.599
and they're willing to talk about these
things. You have to be prepared

669
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:24.920
to give the people what they want, right the old adage, and I

670
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:29.559
think that people are looking for something
in their lives. They want something meaningful.

671
00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:34.079
You mentioned gen Z and even millennials
talking about things like sustainability is important

672
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:36.800
to them, so it's better to
be important to you. And the reality

673
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:40.760
is that mental wellness is important to
them, and mind training and meditative practices,

674
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:45.000
mindfulness at work. When these things
are important to your followers, they're

675
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:49.000
important to you, or at least
they'd better be. I agreed. Coming

676
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.000
up to the end of the show
already, man, it goes by so

677
00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:52.239
fast. So before we go,
I want to make sure that what we

678
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.920
do here is we kind of bring
up land the plane, if you will,

679
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:58.199
Brian Williams, that's for you.
That's what he says all the time,

680
00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:00.400
Land the Plane. So what I
want to get to here is you

681
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:06.239
in your chapter lighting the lamp for
others. If you talk about starting small

682
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:08.159
in an organization, you know,
really maybe starting a pilot program. So

683
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:13.239
many organizations don't invest in developing their
people. So could you say a little

684
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:16.599
bit about just getting started with something
like this. Yeah, absolutely, I

685
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:21.320
feel like I agree with one hundred
percent. Too many organizations aren't making the

686
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.880
investment. They either don't know how
they're they're not aware of how. It's

687
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:30.320
absolutely showing up at work every day, meaning the gaps so, but at

688
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:32.400
the same time, taking it on
a big, monolithic leadership development program is

689
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:37.599
probably too much for some people to
take on. So a pilot program is

690
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:40.599
a great opportunity, whether there's one
progressive function or division. Maybe you have

691
00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:45.119
a team of high potentials that you
want to do something special to let them

692
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:49.960
know that you really care about their
their long term development. Great place to

693
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:52.639
start. Don't be surprised if others
start asking for which is a really good

694
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:57.159
thing too. So I feel like
making it manageable, starting, you know,

695
00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:00.000
with a progressive I think we're talking
about my specific book, which has

696
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:06.159
a nice natural framework to unfold it
over time with real practical tips. I

697
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:08.320
think it's got to pertain to the
business, the day to day work.

698
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:12.199
It has to be tangible, has
to be grounded in science, you know.

699
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:15.480
So make sure you do that.
But start small and just kind of

700
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:19.360
let it go. Yeah, get
the thing moving. Okay. So you

701
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:22.000
know by now math that this program
is listened to by people around the world,

702
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:27.000
and what we are really in together
for is helping to create a place

703
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.320
where people people can really come alive
within their work, they can realize their

704
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:34.000
potential. They are led by inspirational
leaders that do see their value, their

705
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:37.079
strengths and lead them to their greatness. And we do business betters in the

706
00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:39.440
world, what which you'll have to
leave them with. I think seeing work

707
00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:46.599
is the opportunity it is for us
to progress individually. Collectively, Our work

708
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:51.599
is an opportunity to practice some of
these types of enlightened techniques. When we

709
00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:57.360
talk today about empathy, we could
be talking about vision and cohesion, cooperation,

710
00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:00.000
lots of themes from the book.
Work isn't something we do and then

711
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:04.400
we go home to try to figure
out sort of the rest of life.

712
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:07.840
I think that those barriers, if
they were ever had a place, they're

713
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:13.360
long gone. You know. Now
today everything is so integrated and intertwined,

714
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:16.000
entangled even and I think when we've
tried to pretend like I can have my

715
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:20.079
work life and then I go home
and have my home life, that's not

716
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:22.639
the case. When we look at
work as an opportunity to develop ourselves and

717
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:27.679
to grow and to contribute to those
around us, and to pour our energies

718
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:31.239
into an organization that ideally is making
you. Stakeholder capitalism and you had a

719
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:36.039
guests and recently talk about stakeholder capitalism. It has a chance to make the

720
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:39.840
world a better place. Pouring our
energy in that way and not diverting it,

721
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:43.519
I think is the opportunity we have
with work if we can do it

722
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:46.519
right. Completely agree, Matt.
And it's really a delight to get to

723
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:50.760
know you, have you on my
program and it's happened before. I'll give

724
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:52.159
you the same threat as I have
other people. I have been known to

725
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:55.719
show up on my guest stoorsteps,
So just you know, okay, warning,

726
00:47:55.719 --> 00:47:59.719
I love it. Okay, And
I'll add one more thing to what

727
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:01.760
you said there. Listeners and viewers, let me just give you a pose.

728
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:05.360
This question to you. Do you
think you're not actually living when you're

729
00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:10.519
working? So working is also a
living something to ponder Listeners and viewers.

730
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.599
If you want to learn more about
doctor Matt Pepsol, his book, podcast,

731
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:16.119
or the work he does at the
Predictive Index, you can start by

732
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:20.280
going to his personal website. It's
Matt Pepsol. Let me spell that for

733
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:24.800
you because it's not obvious. Matt. Matt Pepsil is p O E p

734
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.119
sel so Matt Pepsil dot com.
Last week we missed the live show.

735
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:34.039
You can always catch it be recorded
podcast. We were on the Eric doctor

736
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:37.440
Peter Kim talking about his fantastic new
book, How Trust Works, The science

737
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:42.280
of how relationships are built, broken
and repaired. We've got so many new

738
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:45.840
insights about trust and why sometimes an
apology is a bad idea. Next week

739
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:51.800
we'll be on the Eric Paulina Marinova
pomp Piano talking about her book Hidden Genius,

740
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.960
The secret ways of thinking that power
the world's most successful people. See

741
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:58.440
you there, and remember work as
an integral part of our lives and one

742
00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:01.320
of our best adventures and means of
Let's our potential making the impact we create.

743
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:07.440
So let's work on purpose. We
hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

744
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:12.960
Be sure to tune into Working on
Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortez,

745
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:16.320
each week on W four CY.
Together we'll create a world where business

746
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:22.840
operates conscientiously, Leadership inspires and passion
performance, and employees are fulfilled in work

747
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.920
that provides the meaning and purpose they
create. See you there, Let's work

748
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:27.760
on Purpose.