Courageous Conversations: Navigating Tough Talks with Confidence and Skill

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FOURCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache
for meaning and purpose at work, to

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contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part

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of an organization that inspires them and
helps them grow into realizing their highest potential.

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Business can be such a force for
good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance
and inspiration to help usher in this

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world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, Doctor

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Relise Cortez. Welcome back to the
Working on Purpose Program. Thanks you again

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this week. Great to have you. This show has been brought to you

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with passion and price since February of
twenty fifteen. I'm your host, Doctor

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Release Cortes. If we've not met
yet, you don't know me. I'm

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an organizational psychologist and logo therapist,
speaker and author, and my team and

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I at Gusto now help companies to
enliven and fortify their operations by articulating their

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purpose and building inspirational leaders and cultures
activated by meaning and purpose to turn those

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companies from a flatline EKG to a
vibrant destination workplace. There people are intrinsically

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motivated to perform at their best,
can grow to their fuller potential, and

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are committed to stay in dynamic and
deliver on the company's mission. You can

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learn more about us and how we
can work together at Gusto dashnow dot com

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or my personal website at least Coortes
dot com. Now getting into today's program

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we have with us today Todd Davis. He's a senior consultant and thought leader

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at Franklin Covey with over thirty five
years of experience in human resources, talent

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development, and executive recruiting. Todd
spent twenty seven years as Chief People Officer

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at the company, where he was
responsible for the global development in over forty

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offices, reaching one hundred and sixty
countries. Sounds amazing. Additionally, he

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authored and co authored books including Get
Better fifteen Proven Practices to Build Effective Relationships

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at Work and Everyone Deserves a Great
Manager. Yes they do. He joined

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it today from Salt Lake City.
Todd E. Hardy, Welcome to Working

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on Purpose. Thank you, thank
you for having me. Appreciate that introduction.

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One quick correction, So I've been
with Frank Kenny for twenty eight years.

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It was eighteen of those years that
I was their chief people officer.

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Okay, thank you for that correction. I don't want the current chief people

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officer to say, hey, wait
a minute, what are you doing.

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Yeah, already coaching on my space
on my turf. Well, I'm really

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very happy to have you on,
Todd. This is such an important topic,

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this idea of conflict, and as
we get into it, I want

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to first start by talking and just
learning why. You know, in order

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for us to be able to work
on a topic like this, we have

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to have some connection to it and
some passion around it. So I'm interested

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and why do you care about the
topic of conflict and navigating through it and

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what's your anchor to this? Yeah, well, thank you for asking that.

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You know, you mentioned one of
the books I was honored to write

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on behalf of Franklin Covey Get Better
Fifteen Proven practices to build effective relationships at

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work. And what I have learned
throughout my career and particularly in the role

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of chief people officer, is that, as Jim Collins said, you know,

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you got to have the right people
on the bus, and I totally

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agree with that, but it's actually
in and not but and it's actually the

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nature of the relationship between those people
that makes all the difference in a culture

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and a team, an organization and
to the bottom line and so so relationships

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and I'm not just talking about being
nice to each other, but really effective

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collaborative relationships are the key to successful
cultures into successful business. I found that

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time and time again in my work. So so, while we want a

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lot of different opinions on the table
so we can get to, you know,

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a great solution, we got to
figure out now how to share those

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those different opinions and not just tolerate, but really welcome those different opinions so

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that we have all these pieces of
the puzzle we could work with to create

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whatever it is we're going to create. Mm hmm. Yeah, and conflict

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kind of gets in the way of
that unless we know how to navigate through

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it, right. So one of
the things that I find intriguing, and

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I guess I'm not going to complain
about this taught and maybe you probably don't

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either, that we weren't actually taught
conflict navigation in elementary school, high school,

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you know. And why I'm not
complaining is because both you and I

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address these kinds of issues that aren't
taught very well in school. So we

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can't complain too much because it's our
livelihood, right. But why is it

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something like conflict navigation taught in high
school or in elementary school? I think

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that is so interesting, And lots
of people ask that. I asked that.

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I think, gosh, if this
is such a fundamental piece to not

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just getting along in the world,
but really making headway, why isn't it

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taught? You know, we teach
debate. I was on a couple of

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debate teams, and debate is almost
not the opposite of what we're trying to

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accomplish here. But it's like you
know, how do I win? How

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do I get my point across versus? How can we collaboratively work together?

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And how can I you know,
how can we communicate effectively and respect each

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other's opinions? And And there's an
element of that in debate classes, but

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not much. And then communication classes
that I think of. It's all about

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talking and getting my point across.
It's not we don't we don't have classes

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on how to listen. And boy, is listening such a critical part of

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navigating through difficult conversations. So I'm
with you, I'm I'm there's a part

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of me that's glad they don't teach
it because that's what I do every day

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out on their own as a senior
consultant. But it is. It is

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a really perplexing question. And we
look at not to get into anything too

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far out, but we look at
all of the controversy and the the anger

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in the world right now, and
you just wonder if man, if navigating

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and showing respect and couraging consideration we're
taught from a very early age, would

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we be at this place we're at
all over the world. It's interesting you

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say that. Yeah, I'm co
authoring a book called soulful healing, which

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really also really speaks to the notion
of being able to listen and empathetically connect

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with people. And part of what
we're putting forth is this is what the

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world needs. So I totally think
that's totally sick important to go where you

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just went to. So and I
appreciate that because the show is listened to

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my people around the world, and
I think that we do need to elevate

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our capacity to listen to each other, to be respectful to each other.

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And I certainly want to help champion
that cost. So thank you for bringing

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that up. Very important, thank
you. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

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so then when we think about this, what's interesting. I bet you you

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probably experienced this on a very regular, if not daily basis. When we

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even mentioned the word conflict, people
can have a very visual reaction to it,

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right, And so let's talk about
some of the common misconceptions about conflict.

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Okay, Yeah, we hear the
word conflict and we immediately think argument

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or fight, right, And and
when when you think of the word conflict,

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if we think of, you know, differences of opinion or or challenging

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topic. I'm thinking of specifically to
the to the course that I teach,

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and that we teach, how do
we how do we begin to hold those

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conversations? What things we have to
keep in mind? If we think of

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it as tension. Okay, that's
because there's there's tension there, because there's

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emotion, there's something at stake,
and tension the word we we tend to

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think of as a negative, but
tension can actually, when harnessed, can

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be used for a good thing.
Tension is is, in my experience,

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is a close cousin of passion or
or an outcome of passion, something so

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strongly about. And boy, if
we can get that on the table and

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harness that, then we can make
some real progress. That's that's my I

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don't have the word doctor by my
name like you do, but that's my

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take at it. Uh huh.
I think that's really interesting. Yes,

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and I did see you know,
I did take your your assessment. I

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think I came out as an appeaser, by the way. So anyway,

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so then your your course is your
work. How are you helping people to

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address some of these misconceptions? Yeah, well, we talk about the tendency

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that human beings, most human beings
have to avoid difficult conversations because we something's

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at stake, right, And that's
why these this tension of these emotions come

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up, because something's at stake.
I dealt a lot with performance conversations and

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my chief people officeral role in coaching
leaders and working directly with associates, and

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so you know, they had at
stake their livelihood. I mean they're there,

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were they going to continue in their
role? I had at stake my

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concern about the relationship. How are
we going to And that's something I think

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most of us can relate to.
We're going to prepare for a difficult conversation.

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We're worried about how the other person's
to feel and what's going to be

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our relationship after and the feelings after
that. And so if we can identify

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that, recognize that that, Look, the mindset shouldn't just be well,

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this is going to be painful,
so I just got to get through it

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the best I can. But instead
say, yeah, this is going to

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be difficult, but we both if
we took look carefully what we both need

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out of this? You know what
I need if I'm the one initiating a

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difficult conversation, what is it I
need when I need your performance to improve?

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Or I need us to get on
the same page or whatever, And

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what do they need well, first
and foremost, and again I'm going back

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to performance plans, which is a
big area, or performance discussions, which

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is a big area of my background. The first thing I remember is they

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need respect. They need to feel
respected to any one of us we're having

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When we're not the one initiating the
conversation, we our brain automatically goes into

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defense mode, this fight or flight
mode. And so I try and remember

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that, and coach leaders remember that
to say, gosh, anything you can

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do to reduce and reduce that defensiveness
up front is going to help them to

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really hear what you're saying. So
that's that's kind of a first step.

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But I think i've I think I've
digressed off of your question. No,

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that's great, that's you're doing great. I was you did ask answer the

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question the way that I served it
up. I think what's interesting when I

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think about that, You know,
why why don't people go ahead and step

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into navigating conflict? Right? You
know you mentioned it. Part of it

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is people are afraid of, you
know, strong emotions coming out, and

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I can't deal with those strong,
strong big emotions and how do I deal

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with that? Or don't feel like
they have the skills to go into it,

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so just feel like, you know, it's I don't even want to

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go in there. So but you
know, it's so interesting. I had

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doctor Raj Sosodia on my show a
few weeks ago talking about his latest book,

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Awaken, and he talked about how
he his co author wanted one of

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their other authors to be further down
the list in the naming of the book,

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and and so Raj didn't want to
bring that up with the author.

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He avoided that conversation or potential conflict, and as he said, he outsourced

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it. And it didn't go well
because then the other author came back to

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him and said, hey, what's
the deal, what's the deal? And

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he said, I could have easily
handled that if I would have just done

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it myself. Boy, I can
so relate to that kind of a situation.

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I had a team member many years
ago, really good person, and

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they did some things well, but
they had they had a behavior that was

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really holding them back, and it
was starting to be observed by other team

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members. And this is embarrassing,
Doctor Cortez, because here I am the

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chief people officer. I'm going to
coach the leaders had to do this,

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and yet I fell into this.
Maybe it'll just go away, maybe the

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problem, maybe maybe somebody else'll address
it. And this person reported to me

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and I, you know, I
look back and laugh now, because I

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wasn't funny. It was. It
was funny that I was avoiding. I

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was doing the very thing I was
coaching leaders not to do. And after

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about it seems like this situation is
about six months. I find that because

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another team ever came to me and
said, hey, Todd, this is

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getting out ahead and you're looking bad. You know, the department's looking bad.

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We don't get this addressed, and
shame on me. But I went

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to the person and finally had this
very awkward, difficult conversation, if not

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handle correctly, could feel like a
personal attack. It wasn't a personal attack,

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but I can appreciate how they might
feel that way. And yes they

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were upset, and yes they were
offended, I'll say, and hurt.

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But what they were most hurt by
are the six months that I had waited

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to have. It finally got to
the heart of the issue. They they

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didn't necessarily agree, they saw the
situation differently than idea as far as what

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they needed to change, but they
also appreciated that they needed to make that

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change. But they came back to
me and said, what was hardest to

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hear was that you had known this
for six months. And so for six

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months I continued to do this thing
that was alienating people and I didn't know

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it. And then I thought,
shame on me. You're exactly right.

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You know, we err on this
side of being considerate. We talked about

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balancing courage and consideration. Many people, most people err on the side of

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being considerate because they're so thoughtful and
concerned about the person's feelings, and yet

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one is really considerate, I mean
being considerate. Was me to let this

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thing go on for six months when
this person could have started to course correct

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that much earlier. Sorry, I
have very long questions, to be very

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very long. You know, this
is exactly the nature. Don't apologize for

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good good content to take that back
not accepting that apology. All right,

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I err on the side of consideration. So okay, well I did.

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Just last night I went to an
SMU Leadership Series talk and there was a

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woman who was I think the CEO
of Selena's. She had been an executive

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for Excell for years, and he
asked her, what's what what's your biggest

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regret in your career and she said
just that, she said, not responding

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quickly enough to things that were important. Welcome to being human, right,

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So seems to be a common refrain. But so you showcase something that you

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know you wished had gone or you
wanted to go you know better than it

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did at the time. Let's talk
about a case study where effective conflict navigation

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led to some significant or positive outcomes. Whether it's an organization a company that'd

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be the ideal. Yeah, well, yeah, I've got some personal I

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mean it's in a business setting,
one that I was personally involved with,

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where again a performance discussion. There
was a very highly educated, very senior

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person here at the organization I'm at
Franklin Covey, and this person was continually

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passed over for some really cool opportunities
and it was frustrating for them. And

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on paper, they had everything that
it took in more to be selected for

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some of these really cool projects,
and yet they weren't. And I wasn't

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directly supervising this person, but I
was aware of them and aware of their

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strengths. And I started to observe
and notice what I was assuming was getting

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in the way. And that was
let me back up here when I when

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I wrote the book Get Better,
I woke wrote about the things that those

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who are most influential in their in
their leadership positions, whether they're a formal

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leader or not, what they do. And one of those things is they

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get their volume right. What I
mean by that is our strengths. Any

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strength, when dialed up too high, starts to work against us. This

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person was the most the most detail
oriented, organized person I had ever met.

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I mean, who doesn't want that
person on your team? Right?

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But that strength of this person's was
dialed up so high that when things didn't

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go as planned, they couldn't adjust, They couldn't adapt, They were they

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were very ridge that way, and
so people would work around that. They

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didn't want to have this person on
their team because they'd rather take someone with

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less competency but more pleasant, quite
frankly to work with. Yes, And

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I observed this from Afar, and
I took a risk and went to this

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person when when one other situation came
up, and again this person was passed

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over and I said to them,
Hey, you didn't ask for my feedback.

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But we've known each other for a
long time and I've been observing,

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and I think I can see what
may be getting in a way, and

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I approached it that way, and
I said, and I did say,

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let me tell you, and I'll
call this person Deb. Her name wasn't

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Deb, but I'll say Deb,
let me tell you. And I've been

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given feedback before. It stings,
but it was helpful to know that the

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person giving it to me only had
was only looking out for me. And

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I just want you to know my
only intended sharing this with you is because

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I care about you and I want
to see you wildly successful in your role

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and happy. And so I begin
the conversation. I said, I have

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noticed some things big and little where
you. You don't mean to, but

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you come across as abrupt, maybe
some would say offensive. And she looked

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me really and we started talking about
things that I wish showing her in even

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simple examples of how she began an
email with with, uh, you know,

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have you got the video product pretty
yet? Instead of hey, at

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least how was your weekend? Hope
things are going well? Would you mind?

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And this person was so senior and
so educated that I assumed that they

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just knew to do things like that. And and this person was not.

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They weren't angry. They were hungry
to learn those little things that might come

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so natural to you and me.
And so we spent several different sessions coaching

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how to begin an email, how
to when I was coaching this person,

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and I was quite surprised, but
but then I realized, gosh, Todd,

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don't don't think that just because you're
a certain way, everybody else is

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that certain way. And I'm not
patting myself on the back. I'm just

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saying some things that come natural to
me with empathy and consideration art art to

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natural to everybody. And so in
that coaching session, this person really started

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to change, and I started hearing
from other people. Wow, so on

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depth is what happened to deb And
all of a sudden, opportunities started to

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open up. And I'm not taking
credit for that. I'm just saying,

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share, don't be afraid of having
those different conversations because while yes, it's

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going to be awkward and a little
bit uncomfortable, or would be a lot

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uncomfortable initially, if your intent is
there, and if you declare your intent

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and you make sure they know your
intent, I'm convinced and you're sincere about

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it. I'm convinced you can say
almost anything, you can have any conversation

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and I won't make all the emotion
the pain go away, But boy,

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will you will you be glad you
did and you'll see the positive outcomes.

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That's beautiful. Thank you for that
so encouraging. Let's grab our first break

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here and let our listeners and viewers
think about maybe how they might want to

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navigate a conversation that's been difficult for
themselves. I'm your host, doctor Relas

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Cortez. We've been on the air
Todd Davis. He is a senior consultant

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and thought leader at Franklin Covey and
the author and co author of a few

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books, including Get Better fifteen Proven
Practices to build effective Relationships at work and

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Everyone Deserves a Great Manager. We've
been talking a bit about why we're afraid

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of conflict, how we can start
to approach it. After the REK,

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we're going to talk about some of
the common pitfalls or mistakes people make when

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they attempt to navigate conflict. Stay
with us. We'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Court has as a management
consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An

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inspirational speaker and author, she helps
companies visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders

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and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

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and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite a least to

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00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:03.680
speak to your organization, please visit
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk

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about how to get your employees working
on purpose. This is working on Purpose

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with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach
our program today or to open a conversation

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00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:23.119
with Elise, send an email to
a lease A lisee at elisecortes dot com.

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Now back to working on purpose.
Thanks for staying with us, and

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welcome back to working on Purpose.
I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

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as I am dedicated to helping create
a world where people realize their potential at

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work and are led by inspirational leaders
that help them find and contribute their greatness,

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and we do business better than the
world. I continue to research and

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write my own books, so my
last one came out in March of twenty

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twenty three. It's called the Great
Revitalization, How activating meaning and purpose can

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radically in liven your business. And
I wrote it to help leaders understand the

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lay of today's workforce land what they
need and want from work. Then I

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offer twenty two best practices to help
you create the culture to get that.

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You can find it at a leascoretest, dot com or Amazon wherever you find

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your books. If you are just
joining me today, My guest is Todd

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Davis. He is a senior consultant
and thought liter at Franklin Covey, and

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he spent thirty five years of experience
in human resources, talent development and executive

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coaching, and eighteen years as chief
People Officer at the company, where he

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was responsible for the global development in
over forty offices reaching one hundred and sixty

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countries. Amazing impact. Must have
had just a crazy good time in those

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years. It was awesome. It
was awesome. It is awesome. I'm

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still with the company in a different
role, but it is. Yes,

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yes, absolutely so. Now we
talked a little bit about that wonderful example

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you gave of helping deb which is
just tremendous. It's amazing, you know,

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and that's the thing is so often
people people go through life blind and

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not they don't know what the sharpneller
are putting out because no one has the

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courage or the care. Yes,
that's a little, the courage to approach

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them with this difficult convert. Such
a great illustration Todd of why this stuff

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is so important. So now let's
illustrate some of the some of the common

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pitfalls or mistakes that people make when
they do go to attempt to navigate a

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conflict. What does that look like? Yeah, well, in my experience,

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it's the okay, well you used
the example earlier of one of your

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guests where they they outsourced it and
I already talked about that. Now that

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didn't go well, I haven't.
I haven't seen that experience yet. Although

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a cousin to that is just avoiding
it, you know, not having it,

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out outsourcing it to no one,
hoping it'll go away on its own,

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And that is very common, and
it only gets worse. And then,

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like I experienced, when the time
comes that you finally, if you

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finally do have it, the resentment
not only is for the topics that were

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brought up, but that you waited
so long to do it. So certainly.

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That's that's something that only gets worse
with time. The other thing,

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another thing I've seen is when people
go in and it's just I got to

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get in and out as quick as
I can. You just got to say

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what needs to be said and get
it over. And that's really you know,

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we talk about having courage and consideration. That's having neither. You know,

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I don't really have courage. I'm
certainly not being considerate, and we

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don't think of it in those terms, but that's what happens. So I

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just got to get the message across
and then hope that they'll be able to

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get over the hurt and do something
different about it. And so that's a

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common mistake, another mistake that I
am familiar with, you know, and

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I would ask your listeners to think
about this. You know, your tendency.

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Do you tend to will while we
want a perfect balance, do you

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tend to err on the side of
courage or lean towards the side of courage

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or on the side of consideration.
And most people, particularly people in organizational

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development and human resource opportunities, if
they're not perfectly balanced, they err on

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the side of consideration. And that's
a good thing that can be a good

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thing, but in difficult conversations,
what can happen is that you're so considerate

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and you present the topic in such
a considerate way that you leave the conversation

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and they didn't get the message thank
you, yeah you said it, that

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you didn't really say it. And
so that's something that I've coached leaders on

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and I used to experience myself.
People who are overly considered or very considerate

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what feels to them like they're approaching
approaching the line of being offensive. They're

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not, but to them, it
feels like it. And so that's what

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I've coached people to say. Look, you're such a considerate person that when

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you are direct and you say whatever
the topic is, I know to you

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that feels like you're going to be
offending them. You're not coming close to

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offending them, You're just being direct. So declare your intent. You know,

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Hey, Elise, I want you
to know I think so highly of

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you and there's something I've been observing
that I believe is holding you back and

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I want to share it with you
only because I care about you. Start

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out like that, like I said
previously, and you can you can then

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be is be direct, still with
respect, but be direct. So that's

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that's another pitfall is being overly considered
overly courageous, you know, and yeah

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you can go in and say,
look, I you know, I'm glad

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you are the team, but you
got to change this er you're out.

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Well, that person's probably going to
leave because people leave their leaders, they

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don't leave organizations and it's oh,
you're going to to talk to me.

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So this balance of courage and consideration, when those are out of whack,

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are the where the pitfalls come.
M hm wow. So that's that was

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That was great. I appreciate so
much for you laid laying out how to

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even open the conversation for our listeners
and viewers. So great. Now what

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gets interesting for me? And this
is probably why you spent us all these

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years at Franklin Comby, because there's
so much work to do, some many

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layers to take on. But then
we think about such things as power dynamics

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or cultural differences, difference in personality. Now that adds a whole layer of

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complexity. It's one thing for you
and I as maybe something like something like

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colleagues to have a conversation like this
or you with somebody on your team.

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What if we want to have a
conversation with somebody who's a few levels above

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us in terms of a leadership role, or this's the CEO for gosh sakes,

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you know, Or what if this
is somebody that speaks a whole different

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language and really values things very different
than us. That becomes much more nuanced.

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So can you just speak a little
bit to addressing some of those complexities.

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Yeah, it's a really good important
point you bring up in and for

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us, particularly at Franklin Covey,
we were a global company. As you

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mentioned in my intro, we have
offices around the world, and so while

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the principles are the same, the
principles are the same, the way that

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you model or use those principles have
got to be quite different a direct conversation.

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I'll never forget. We were making
a video years ago. I used

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to work on what was called our
Innovation team, where we create some of

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our content, and we were making
a video over in Japan, Tokyo Star

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Bank is the name of the bank
over there, and we were doing a

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series of interviews with some of the
bank employees and the leaders there, and

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we were about fifteen. It's behind
schedule, and the one of the people

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over there that was for Japan,
it was the host and any of these

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people that were coming in, they
were so pleasant and talking and and she

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came and she said, Okay,
these people are really angry and I said

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they are. They don't seem angry, they're fine, And she said,

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yeah, they're not going to let
you know they're angry. They're angry because

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you're fifteen mins behind and they have
blocked out this schedule. And this was

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years ago. But to your point, there are so many nuances the way

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that our behaviors and our manners and
our cultures show up. And so while

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the principle of seeking first to understand, let's say, before being understood,

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well, that principle and that habit
is the principle is the same, the

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way that we do that or the
way that that's received is going to be

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very different in different countries back over
into Asia where where people are not stereotyping,

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but in general people are much more
hesitant to then speak up or engage

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in a conversation and asked a question, give shorter answers, and they're very

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reserved that way. And so being
mindful of that not pushing people. We

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have to adapt. I don't have
exact formulas here other than to be very

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00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:15.079
mindful of each culture when you're dealing
with a challenging or different conversation, to

408
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:21.519
understand what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. But here's what I will say,

409
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.359
Elise, and I've worked not in
every country, but I've worked in a

410
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:29.480
lot of countries. If your intent
is in the right place, and if

411
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:33.640
you share your intent upfront, even
if it's some of a different culture.

412
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.160
I was in Dubai, had this
great experience in Dubai, and we had

413
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.920
this discussion and I said, look, I'm not from here, and I'm

414
00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:42.720
learning about you, and we're going
to talk about these things here. Just

415
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:47.000
know that my intent is to help. I'm here to help and I want

416
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:51.240
this office to run very successfully.
So if I'm saying things that aren't the

417
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:53.119
way that you would say them,
you know, being from this country,

418
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:56.359
will you please let me know and
help me to be more effective than what

419
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.240
I'm trying to share. Edit It
just opened up doors. Just we're all

420
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.400
human beings. That's one thing we
do have in common. That's brilliant,

421
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.000
you know, Todd. That is
such a great thing to say that's you

422
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:10.920
know, put your intent out there
and then ask them to give you a

423
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:14.599
course correct if you if you go
off, of course, beautiful. That's

424
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.000
the way. That's the way I
learned my languages when I live in Spain

425
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:18.960
and Brazil. By the way Todd, I would say, I'm going to

426
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.079
speak Spanish and would you you know
I'm going to make mistakes. Will you

427
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.440
just tell me as I go so
I can correct myself. So then they

428
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.400
didn't feel it wasn't embarrassing or anything. And I learned it so much faster

429
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:30.200
that way. So I agree,
in fact, if I can make further

430
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:34.519
comment at least even even you know, in in the United States where I

431
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.359
live, and in English, even
in a conversation with someone that grew up

432
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:42.480
here, I will often say,
if it's a difficult conversation or something I'm

433
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:47.279
a little worried about how things are
going to be received, I will say

434
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:48.680
to the person. And some people
may disagree with this, but I will

435
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.559
say, let's you know, you
and I are in the conversation, I

436
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:53.079
say, hey, lease, I
didn't just share some information with you.

437
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:57.039
I'm probably going to say it wrong. Will you give me a little bit

438
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:02.000
of pre forgiveness. Will you let
me get this out and then know that

439
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.480
if it comes out wrong or if
it's offensive, of course my intent is

440
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:07.000
to be offensive. But I'm just
going to get this out of the table

441
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.079
and then we can start to discuss
it. I will just be open and

442
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.960
up front like that, and it
deuces defenses. It helps people feel like

443
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.680
they're a partner with me and trying
to get to the right solution here.

444
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:23.440
So so even without cultural differences,
I will I will ask for forgive this

445
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:27.240
upfront as I share some information,
meaning if I say something that's offensive,

446
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:30.079
no that's not my intent, and
help me tell me a better way to

447
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.319
say it, because I need to
bring up this topic. I love that

448
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:36.559
talk. That's so so great.
You know, next week we're going to

449
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:41.880
be talking about being culturally savvy and
anti racist leaders and so you know,

450
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:47.440
learning how to speak to different groups
so that you don't offend them is critical

451
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:49.279
today, and so saying you know, I'm probably going to get this wrong,

452
00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:52.359
so please, you know, tell
me how you want me to address

453
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.440
you, you know, help me
get it right. It's just gorgeous.

454
00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:00.559
So but what you're also speaking to
to me, what it really facts?

455
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:04.720
Of this little thing called emotional intelligence. Right, And you can't go anywhere

456
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:08.400
today without hearing leaning purpose and emotional
intelligence. It seems to me those there

457
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:15.119
are such common terms. So talk
to us about how emotional intelligence plays in

458
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.799
the effective conflict navigation, and then
let's just talk a little bit about how

459
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.519
we can start to improve it for
our selves as individuals. Yeah, love

460
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:25.319
that you Love that you went there
next, because I think that is the

461
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:29.599
key to all of this. The
word empathy is the key, and empathy

462
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:33.480
is you and I both know it
different than sympathy. Empathy is as much

463
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:38.200
as we possibly can putting ourselves in
the shoes of the other person. And

464
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:42.079
in my experience, no one can
say I know how you feel. In

465
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.160
fact, I cringe when I hear
that. This is a little bit odd

466
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.799
thing about me. When I was
a little kid, while my friends are

467
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.519
out playing ball or whatever, I
was reading and Landers column in the news

468
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.519
or yeah, most of your listeners
are probably too younger, and Landers is

469
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:01.160
shoes as advice columnist. And I
remember my mom even saying, what are

470
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:04.640
you reading that for? I think
I was ten years old, but I

471
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.200
was just I was just engaged by
it, and I still remember an article

472
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:15.319
that Anne Landers wrote and talked about
the unintentional but yet offensive thing that happens

473
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:17.599
when someone says I know how you
feel. And I have learned that over

474
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.400
and over again, even if you
know your mother died six months ago and

475
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:22.839
my mother just died, for me
to say, oh, my mother just

476
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.359
died, I know how you feel, well, you're assuming that our relationships

477
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.119
with our mothers were the saying.
You're assuming that we had the same background,

478
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.920
same experiences, And so I actually
say the opposite of that with people.

479
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:37.920
I will say, look, I
don't know how you feel. And

480
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:39.079
often people will say, well,
yes you do. You've been through this,

481
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:43.200
I know, and I will say
to them, but everybody's experience is

482
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.119
different. So I want you know, I don't know how you feel,

483
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:49.000
but I really respect and appreciate you
right now and what you're going through.

484
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.000
And I'm sincere when I say that, and people I can just tell them

485
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:57.400
feeling like, oh thank you,
they can just fail it. Yeah,

486
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:00.039
all these all these people tell me
they know how I feel. And so

487
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:04.480
back to empathy as much as we
possibly can, putting ourselves in the place

488
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.599
of the other person. And so, like I said, any conversation before

489
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.039
it even begins. I remember,
Okay, if Todd, if you were

490
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:13.759
them, sure, it's going to
be embarrassing. It's embarrassing. I don't

491
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:15.480
want to be called out on something
or I don't mean you know, and

492
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.119
I'm going to feel defensive and I'm
going to feel awkward. So I get

493
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.319
that in my mind without airing too
far on the side of consideration. I

494
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:28.400
get that in my mind, and
it really helps the way I present or

495
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.119
tee up the conversation. You know. Doctor Stephen Covey, the best selling

496
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:36.359
author of The Seven Habits of FINDI
Victim gosh Man I had the esteem privilege

497
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.880
of working with for many years before
his passing. He often said, the

498
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:44.720
deepest need of the human heart is
to feel understood. Yes, and when

499
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:45.960
I first heard that, I didn't
disagree, but I thought, is that

500
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:50.480
really true? Boy? Have I
learned it over and over and over again.

501
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:52.720
It is true. The deepest need
of the human heart is to feel

502
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:59.160
understood. And so even a in
a difficult conversation where it is a leader

503
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:01.039
with an employee, it's a before
suscussion in this employee's got to change the

504
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:07.319
behavior. Nothing works better than taking
time to understand them. Yeah, well

505
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:10.320
you're not a green empathy. You're
not agreeing or disagreeing. You're just suspending

506
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:15.960
your feelings long enough so you can
really hear them without judging, without you

507
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:21.880
know, giving immediate feedback, but
just hearing them out. So that's my

508
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:24.920
take on empathy. Well, that's
wonderful and really quick. We're going to

509
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:28.320
take our next break here. I
don't know if you know this or not,

510
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:32.119
Todd, but I've had the extreme, extreme privilege and pleasure of hosting

511
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:37.239
Steven Mr Covey and Covey on my
program. So yeah, I'm a Covey

512
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:42.079
and Franklin Covey fan, So you're
you're in a very good company here,

513
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:45.480
my friend, lovely time for our
last break here, I'm at least Cortez,

514
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:47.440
your host. We've run in the
air with Todd Davis. He is

515
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:52.400
a senior consultant and thought leader at
Franklin Covey and the author and co author

516
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:57.039
of a few books including Get Better
fifteen Proven Practices to build Effective Relationships at

517
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.480
Work and Everyone Deserves a Great Manager. After the we're going to talk a

518
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:04.280
little bit about how we can start
to effectively navigate conflict even in remote work

519
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:22.639
settings. Stay with us, We'll
be back. Doctor Elise Cortes is a

520
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.840
management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she

521
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.639
helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among
stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning

522
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:37.639
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To

523
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:42.519
learn more or to invite a lease
to speak to your organization, please visit

524
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:46.199
her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's
talk about how to get your employees working

525
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:57.000
on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach

526
00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.000
our program today or to open a
conversation with Elise, send an email to

527
00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:14.000
Elise alisee at eliscortes dot com.
Now back to working on purpose. Interesting

528
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:15.440
with us and welcome back to working
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor

529
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.719
at Elise Cortes. I mentioned in
the last break about my latest book coming

530
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.000
out, which is a great great
revitalization. What I did for you to

531
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:25.320
go along with that as I created
a three page assessment for you to be

532
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:29.760
able to download from my website gusturdesh
now dot com, and that will help

533
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:34.159
you understand the extent to which your
current company's culture is operating at the capacity

534
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.239
that it needs to attract and keep
today's workforce. If you are just joining

535
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:39.920
me today, my guest is Todd
Davis. He is a senior consultant and

536
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:44.719
thought leader at Franklin Covey and with
over thirty five years of experience in human

537
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.599
resources, talent development and executive recruiting. He spent eighteen years as the Chief

538
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:52.199
People Officer of the company, where
he was responsible for global development and over

539
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:55.920
forty offices and reaching sixty one hundred
and sixty countries. So, as I

540
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:59.719
mentioned before, we took the break
here. Now we find ourselves in this

541
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:02.199
radically different world, which is of
course why I wrote that last book.

542
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:07.079
But now when we navigate conflict in
a more of a remote setting or via

543
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:12.280
zoom or phone, it requires another
level of skill. So let's talk about

544
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:16.480
that. Yeah, yeah, it's
it is more challenging, It is more

545
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:21.880
challenging, and it is reality,
and so we can learn through that.

546
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:28.239
Body language still matters. I was
just coaching somebody the other day, and

547
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:32.559
sometimes more so because we're up closer, we can see the eye rolls,

548
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:39.440
or we can nodding head or whatever, and so being fully present, as

549
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:43.679
present as we can. I even
like I'm doing right now. I always,

550
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:45.760
and this is a this is a
tactical thing, but I always make

551
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:51.559
sure I move my camp the person
I'm talking to right up under my cameras

552
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.320
so that I'm I look like I'm
looking as close as I can right at

553
00:37:54.320 --> 00:38:00.119
them, just so they have my
full attention. Uh. It's also so

554
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:04.400
important in any conversation, quite frankly, but particularly in a sensitive or difficult

555
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:09.079
conversation, to be fully present,
To take off your Apple watch if you

556
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:13.000
have one that vibrates every time you
get a message, and to put the

557
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.039
phone away, and to not have
other things on your desk that you think

558
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:21.679
you can maybe sneak in a work
while you're attending to listen. God,

559
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:23.880
how many, how many? How
many of us, quite frankly, how

560
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:30.960
many of us have been nodding and
smiling, but we're really not listening.

561
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:32.639
I know I've been thinking of that. I think while we're working on tomorrow's

562
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:37.159
agenda for the meeting of the morning, yes, or or if we're engaged

563
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.679
in the conversation, but we're honestly, to be honest, we're thinking about

564
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:46.559
what we're going to say next doctor
Stephen Covey seven habits author have at five

565
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:51.840
is seek first to understand, then
to be understood. And the big concept

566
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.039
in there, and that one that
I try and live by is listen with

567
00:38:54.119 --> 00:39:00.599
the intent to understand, not the
intent to reply. And come from a

568
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:02.400
bad place where where good people we
want to solve, we want to fix.

569
00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:07.280
And so a Lisa's talking to me
about something and I hear just enough

570
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:08.000
to think, oh, I know
where she's going with that, and so

571
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:12.920
in my mind, I'm trying to
formulate or I am formulating what I would

572
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:15.599
do what I and it may not
even be where she was going. But

573
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:20.599
that's how our minds work. And
so I advise people and myself resist that

574
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.599
temptation and just suspend. Like I
said, Earl, You're suspend my thoughts

575
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:28.719
long enough to really just be there, to listen, to be fully present,

576
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.840
maybe ask questions, but but not. It's not the time to advise

577
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.599
or probe. It's just it's just
to listen, be fully present. And

578
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:39.639
and that's even more so, and
well it's always important, so but it's

579
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:44.880
a little more difficult on zoom and
through technology, but we can certainly do

580
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:49.199
it. And I think I remember
seeing some of your material before too,

581
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:53.119
that when we do that, it
really one, it removed. It reduces

582
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:58.320
all of the not all the emotions
in the person who's sharing, so that

583
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:02.400
so that as they share and you
you've they recognize that you do understand them.

584
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:07.199
If they are frustrated, angry,
or upset, those emotions start to

585
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:09.480
diminish. So now you can walk
and come into the productive zone, right

586
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:14.320
of having an actual exchange that can
be useful and productive. You can't do

587
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:19.960
that until those emotions that are so
high are carried through and cycled to a

588
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.599
more reasonable level. That's exactly right. I mean someone you know, and

589
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:25.519
I'm making these situations up, but
someone who's got a performanceation, and I

590
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.159
say, hey, Doug, we've
got we've got a real problem here.

591
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:31.000
And the fact that you're late every
day with this, well I'm not late.

592
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:35.840
And listen to him ramble on and
if you will, and again you

593
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:37.599
got to be sincerely, you just
say, okay, So so what you're

594
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:39.639
what I hear you saying, and
tell me if I'm wrong. But you're

595
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:45.239
you're feeling You're not feeling really appreciated
for the work you do. You're acknowledging

596
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:46.599
that you're late, but you're saying
that when you get here, you put

597
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:50.840
in more time and more effort than
everybody else in the team. And you're

598
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:52.880
not agreeing with them, but you're
just clarifying, saying, is that my

599
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:55.679
understanding correctly? Well, yeah,
that's right. And the more you can

600
00:40:55.719 --> 00:41:00.800
seek to understand, not agree,
but I understand just what you said,

601
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:04.159
at least you can start to diminish
that defense of this and kind of let

602
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:07.320
the you know what we used to
call it psychological air. You're giving them

603
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:10.960
psychological air so that they can then
breathe and then they can start to digest.

604
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.159
And I don't pretend any of these
things we're talking about make the challenge

605
00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:20.239
go away, but it absolutely makes
it more malleable and workable so that we

606
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.199
can start to get to a better
place things that come up. That's the

607
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:28.679
number one reason in our in our
course navigating different conversations, that's the that's

608
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:31.079
what we focus on. The number
one reason people are uncomfortable or shy away

609
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:34.760
from these is they don't know what
emotions are going to come up, and

610
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:38.360
we don't know either. But if
we can be prepared for whatever kind of

611
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:42.960
emotion comes up when we use three
three tools here we use pause, don't

612
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:50.519
panic, observe, don't judge,
and ask and ask uh don't so we

613
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:52.119
want to pause, what observe and
want to ask? My mind just went

614
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:57.320
wank, but I was going to
ask pause, don't panic, observe,

615
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.840
don't judge, judge, and ask
don't assume don't so just ask questions and

616
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:05.280
those three tools with most, if
not all emotions that come up, those

617
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:10.400
can those those actions can really help
reduce the defensiveness and the anger, the

618
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:15.840
emotion that is there present. You
know, I'll just throw this in here.

619
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:20.000
One of the things that I I've
gotten present to and now addressed in

620
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:24.519
my work Todd is just how much
people are afraid of emotions. And you

621
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:28.440
know, we start off life,
you know as these young you know,

622
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:31.760
embulent, joyous, you know,
expressive things. You know, where we

623
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:36.840
can be mad, we can be
frustrated and really really be and really sad.

624
00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:37.960
And then you know, we go
to school and we learn that we

625
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:42.199
have to kind of contain these behaviors
and some things are just not appropriate in

626
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:45.639
the setting. And then we start
getting going through life and life steps on

627
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:49.079
us and squashes on us, and
we learn about being ashamed and afraid all

628
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:52.159
these things. Right, So by
the time I meet people, you know,

629
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:54.039
probably you two in the thirties,
forties and fifties, you're down to

630
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:59.559
the small little spectrum of emotions to
work from. So they're terrified of you

631
00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:04.320
knows, and and so part of
you know, my work is helping people

632
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:07.719
to understand the role of emotions.
They're giving you vital data from which to

633
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:12.079
be able to make sense of the
world and your relationship. They're not to

634
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:16.639
be stuffed and feared. And so
I really appreciate how you navigate through this

635
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:21.199
with people, helping to coach them
how to be able to address and be

636
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:24.320
with people in their emotions just by
listening and trying to understand them. It's

637
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:30.880
just so beautiful. Thank you,
thank you, You're welcome. So you

638
00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:35.639
you mentioned something earlier that I think
would would be good for us to talk

639
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:37.960
about. Announced that this notion that
we've talked about this on this program here

640
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:44.159
too, of psychological safety in the
on the context of conflict navigation. So

641
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:47.679
you know, some organizations it's much
more safe to open a conversation or to

642
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:52.360
start to navigate conflict, and others
not so much. And so let's talk

643
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:57.519
about the role of psychological safety in
this. Well, yeah, we got

644
00:43:57.559 --> 00:43:59.800
we got to know that, we
get, we get we got to know

645
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:02.159
the culture, We got to know
the what the rules are of engagement.

646
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:07.360
So so help me undersaid a little
bit more about specifically what you're what you're

647
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:12.199
asking for, well especially you know, so you know, let's let's let's

648
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:14.559
say it like this. So if
I were working with and for you,

649
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:16.599
toadd there, we already know that
you would create, you know, a

650
00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:21.000
psychological safety for me to be able
to probably bring up most anything, because

651
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.360
that's who you are, that's how
you But for let's say I'm working for

652
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:30.360
a boss who is well that step
that I work for depth, and I

653
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:34.880
want to be able to bring something
up and I haven't quite progressed the way

654
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:37.320
that you have with you know,
with her, and I want to be

655
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:40.039
able to address that. But I
know that you know that that there might

656
00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:43.679
be some backlash. She might you
know, be angry, she might yell.

657
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:45.800
I mean, I'm I've worked with
organizations where the leader of the organization

658
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:49.519
when people brought things up that he
didn't like, the big vein in his

659
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:52.400
forehead bulged and people were like afraid
he was going to like have a heart

660
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.400
attack right there. It's not a
safe thing to be around, you know.

661
00:44:57.239 --> 00:45:00.920
So so how to be able to
navi gate and you know, navigate

662
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:04.760
conflict even though we're in that kind
of environment. How do we how do

663
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.840
we go about that? Yeah?
What what I'm going to share? And

664
00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:09.159
I'm not pretending this is easy.
You know, you and I can get

665
00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:12.599
on this podcast and talk and they
just do this and this and this and

666
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:15.239
it'll be fine. It'll be fine. Very knowledgeable that I'm very aware that

667
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:19.719
that's not the case. But if
I were in that situation, every situation

668
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.480
is different. If I were in
that situation, it would take some courage

669
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:25.519
and I would talk to that leader
and I would say, Hey, I

670
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:30.719
need to I need to share some
things with you. I love the organization,

671
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.440
I love my role, but here
there are some things that that aren't

672
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:37.320
working as I had anticipated them working. And I'm asking you, as my

673
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:42.400
leader, to maybe hear me out
and could we partner on this. Could

674
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:45.679
I talk to you about something I
might be looking at them wrong. And

675
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:50.480
I always had a big dose of
humility there and I'm sincere at it but

676
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:53.239
I will say I might be looking
this wrong, but here's what what I

677
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:58.440
have viewed is happening on the team, and I'm concerned about it, and

678
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:00.559
I'm not quite sure how to bring
it up with you. I would never

679
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:06.719
say to a person you're pretty unapproachable
and so you know, but I would

680
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:07.480
say, I'm not quite sure how
to bring it up with you, but

681
00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:10.159
I want to feel comfortable coming to
you as my leader. Is that okay

682
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:14.280
if we have a conversation, I
share this with so always honoring them,

683
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:19.360
respecting their role, but also connecting
with them on a human level is saying,

684
00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:22.159
you know, I'm excited to be
here at the company, but I'm

685
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:25.280
concerned about some of these things,
and and I haven't been here long enough

686
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:28.880
to know what is the protocol.
So I'm just going to be really open

687
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:31.519
and honest with you. And that's
what I kind of the earlier example I

688
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:37.119
get. I just I find it's
better, healthier, easier to call it

689
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:38.679
what it is to say, Look, I don't know how things work in

690
00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:42.119
your culture, so I bet I'm
going to say some things wrong here.

691
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:45.239
Will you please forgive me and correctly. I would use the same philosophy with

692
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:50.119
a difficult leader, I would just
say, hey, can you kind of

693
00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:52.880
help me navigate this. I'm a
little bit lost here and I'm feeling concerned

694
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:57.800
about X y Z situation, about
how I'm feeling about my role, and

695
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.840
so I just want to talk openly
with you, because at least if if

696
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:05.760
their answer is well, you're just
going to have to stuck up, well,

697
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:07.480
then then I might want to be
deciding whether this is really where I

698
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:10.039
want to work, because you know, but the leader values gets valued,

699
00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:15.360
and so that's going to be the
tone of the But I think most people,

700
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:20.079
even the most guarded, you know, strong armor people, unapproach with

701
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.800
people. When you can start talking
in just a human way with them,

702
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:32.960
most people remember their humans. Yeah, we discuss those things. Well,

703
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:36.559
we we've I don't know how we
did already, but we've come to the

704
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:38.320
end of the show already here,
So for you forever, You're awesome,

705
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:42.079
You're amazank you, thank you.
Likewise, we are we are we are

706
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:45.000
common, we are common souls here
and we were caring about some of the

707
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:47.320
very same things. So but I
want to give you a chance to close

708
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:51.280
the conversation how you like you know, the show is listen to why people

709
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:53.239
around the world. We want to
create a workplace where people really want to

710
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:57.119
come and contrive, They want to
give their best and grow into their best.

711
00:47:57.159 --> 00:48:00.239
What would you like to leave them
with? Yeah, thank thank you

712
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:01.639
for asking that. It's great question. Just and I'll be quick and know

713
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:05.880
we're out of time. But first
of all, people, I've said it

714
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:07.800
earlier, but people leave their leaders. They don't leave organizations. They leave

715
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:13.039
their leader. And so remember that
if you're in a leadership role, what

716
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:15.280
you do. Everything you do in
sane models, trust and models, you

717
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:20.000
know the culture. And then the
second thing, I'll say this is a

718
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:22.159
little bit out there, but the
other day I was driving somewhere and I

719
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:27.599
saw a big motor home. It
was towing a boat and maybe the vote

720
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:30.039
was towing some RVs, I don't
know, but a lot of toys.

721
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:32.039
And there was a bumper sticker on
the back that said the one with the

722
00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:36.760
most toys wins, or he you
she or he with the most toys wins.

723
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:39.920
And I remember looking at that and
certainly being envious of all the toys

724
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:43.639
they had. But I thought to
myself, and I mean this sincerely,

725
00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:47.320
I think the one with the most
meaningful relationships. The one who dies with

726
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:51.960
the most meaningful relationships wins. And
yes, I'd love to have those toys

727
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.880
too. But here's the point.
If you have meaningful relationships, you find

728
00:48:54.880 --> 00:49:00.880
people who have boats and cars and
homes from Yes, that's right, Yeah,

729
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:05.159
but I really would end with I
just think relationships at the end of

730
00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:07.960
the day, you are at the
top of my list, matter more than

731
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.840
anything else. Beautiful way to finish, Todd. Thank you. It's really

732
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:15.320
a delight to know you. And
I do have a tendency sometimes to show

733
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:17.199
up on my guest doorsteps when I'm
in their cities. So just if you

734
00:49:17.239 --> 00:49:21.519
hear a little quiet knock, it's
me. We've got some guest rooms here.

735
00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:25.199
You're always welcome, wonderful listeners,
viewers. If you want to learn

736
00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:29.679
more about Todd Davis, Franklin Covey
and the work they're doing here, definitely

737
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.159
check them out. Their site is
FranklinCovey dot com. Let me spell that

738
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:37.400
for you, so Franklin f R
A N K L I N Covey c

739
00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:40.400
O V e E y so FranklinCovey
dot com. Last week, if you

740
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:43.840
missed the live show, you can
always catch it if you recorded podcast.

741
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:46.760
We were on air with Kevin Kelly, an architect of Shook Kelly and the

742
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:52.559
author of Irreplaceable, How to Create
Extraordinary Places that bring People Together. He

743
00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:54.239
is the first architect I've had on
this program in the nine years I've been

744
00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:58.760
hosting it, and he taught me
so much about the human condition and how

745
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:02.280
physical surroundings can elevate or lower our
energy and vitality. It was very eye

746
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:06.440
opening, very interesting. Next week, we'll be on the air with Colette

747
00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:09.679
Phillips, the CEO of her own
PR firm and the author of The Includers,

748
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:14.719
the Seven Traits of culturally savvy,
anti racist leaders. See you there,

749
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:16.480
and remember work as one of the
best adventures and means of realizing our

750
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:22.800
potential and making the impact we crave. So let's Work on Purpose. We

751
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:27.719
hope you've enjoyed this week's program.
Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose

752
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:31.039
featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W four CY.

753
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:37.519
Together, we'll create a world where
business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion

754
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.079
performance and employees are fulfilled in work
that provides the meaning and purpose they crave.

755
00:50:42.519 --> 00:50:44.840
See you there, Let's work on
purpose,