Against the Odds: Helping Women Step into Their Shine

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W FOURCY Radio. What's working on
Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder

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the answer to this question. People
ache for meaning and purpose at work,

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to contribute their talents passionately and know
their lives really matter. They crave being

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part of an organization that inspires them
and helps them grow into realizing their highest

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potential. Business can be such a
force for good in the world, elevating

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humanity. In our program, we
provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in

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this world we all want working on
Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes. Welcome back to the
Working and Purpose Program. Thanks thanks for

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turning in this sweek. Great to
have you. This program has been on

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air since February of twenty nineteen,
and today is its official ninth year.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. If we've not met yet before and

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you don't know me, I'm an
organizational psychologist and local therapist, speaker and

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author. My team and I at
Gusto Now help companies to enliven and fortify

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their operations by articulating their purpose and
building inspirational leaders and cultures activated by meeting

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and purpose to turn those companies from
a flatline EKG to a vibrant destination workplace.

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There people are intrinsically motivated to perform
with their best, can grow into

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their fuller potential, and are committed
to stay and dynamically deliver on the company's

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mission. You can learn more about
us and how we can work together at

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gustodashnow dot com and at Lascortes dot
com. Now getting into today's program we

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have with us today Tamra Ryan.
She's the CEO of The Women's Being Project,

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a social enterprise that provides transitional employment
while operating a food manufacturing business to

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women attempting to break the cycle of
chronic unemployment and poverty. She's the author

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of the Third Law, a book
which highlights the societal obstacles and internal demons

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that must be overcome from marginalized women
to change their lives, which is the

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subject of our conversation today. We'll
be sharing a bit a lot about what

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she's learned at serving as the CEO
in this capacity, and then in the

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last segment, we're going to talk
about some of her ideas where she invites

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us all to contribute to how we
can overcome and address some of these major

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systemic issues she knows today from Denver, Colorado, Tamra, Welcome to Working

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on Purpose. It's great to be
here. Thank you for having me.

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You're very welcome. I so enjoyed
reading this marvelous book that you put together.

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The stories I mean that you've chalked
full in this short amount of pages,

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and an incredible compilation of issues that
face the United States, certainly in

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other parts of the world as well, and the stories really bring them home.

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As I said to you, you
really opened my eyes camera to a

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world and problems that I just didn't
understand existed to the extent that they did.

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So I really want to thank you
for that. Well. I appreciate

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that and really that gets at exactly
why I wrote the book. I joke

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that when I became the CEO of
Women's Being Project, I became so much

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more interesting at cocktail parties, and
it was really not because of me,

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but because I had so many interesting
stories and I was learning so much,

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and I finally realized that all the
biases and prejudices I came into the organization

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really frankly not knowing I had,
but that were confronted every day that I

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needed to talk about that because I
knew I wasn't the only one who felt

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that, for instance, somebody who
was a felon had made bad choices and

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they deserved what they had gotten.
I just think that there were so many

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times when I was being confronted with
fact over opinion that I really I felt

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compelled to talk about it. Well, you did it beautifully. Now,

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listeners and viewers, what I want
to situate with you. Many of you

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tune into this program and have over
the years because you're very interested in either

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trying to gain your footing into more
meaningful work or find your purpose. So

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as we talked over all these issues
that She's going to help us understand,

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I want you to listen and pay
attention to because you just might find there's

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something in here for you that you
want to work on and devote your energies,

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your talented maybe even your life to
addressing. So listen up. This

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could be interesting. So let's first
talk about the Women's Being Project itself.

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I know that it was founded in
nineteen eighty nine, so will you tell

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us how did it come to be? And for listeners of viewers who have

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not read your book yet, what
is it? Women's Being Project believes that

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all women have the power to transform
their lives through employment, So I want

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to start with that. And we
were founded in nineteen eighty nine by a

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woman named Jossy Air. Jossy had
gone back to school in her late fifties

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to get her master's degree in social
work, and as a part of getting

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her degree, she had to commit
to being in a nonprofit organation for the

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whole school year. She chose to
work at a daytime homeless shelter for women

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and kids. She committed to being
there several days a week, and what

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she saw was that women would come
in and use the services of the shelter,

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and the shelter would keep them safe
and then they'd leave eventually because they'd

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get a job, and I didn't
need the daytime shelter anymore. But she

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was there long enough to see that
the women kept coming back and they were

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clearly caught in a cycle that they
weren't able to get out of. They

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might have had the ability to get
a job, but they didn't have the

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skills to keep it. So she
thought, if I could teach the women

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to work by actually working, that
would be the cure for poverty. And

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so she invested five hundred dollars of
her own money and bought beans and put

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two women to work making ten bean
soup. That was our original product and

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is why we were called Women's Being
Project. They made sixty one hundred dollars

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from that five hundred dollars investment,
which you know, from an ROI standpoint,

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wouldn't that be awesome to get out
of avery investment? And that was

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really the beginning of realizing that a
business could help support a mission. And

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I was nineteen eighty nine, so
it was really in the early days where

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before social enterprise kind of had a
name. One of the things I'm proud

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of is that throughout our thirty four
almost thirty five year history, we've stayed

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very true to that original idea.
How we deliver our services and which services

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we deliver, of course have evolved
in thirty five years, but really fundamental

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to our ethos is that we're going
to create an environment as safe and accepting

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work environment where women can learn the
skills they need to get and keep employment,

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and when we can set her on
a path to employment, what we're

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doing is changing the trajectory of not
just her life, but also her family's

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life. We're going to dig into
what that looks like as well as we

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go along here. But I want
to kind of continue to peel back in

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sort of the same way that I
got to know you and the Women's Being

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Project, which was through your vanish
point, your experiential set, which I

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really appreciated, just how authentic you
were in your shares that you were like,

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gosh, you know, I came
into it thinking this. So I

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think it would be useful, as
you said, for you to describe your

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actual mindset about these women and what
they were dealing with before you came to

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the Bean Project. How would you
describe that? Where did it come from?

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Well, what I would say start
with the fact that I was born

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a white, middle class girl in
Colorado Springs, Colorado, and so I

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so much of you, we as
humans, surround ourselves by other people who

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are like us, and so so
much of my attitude and opinions were shaped

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by that I talk about in the
book the Little Poem or whatever that I

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remember hearing as a teenager. First
comes love, then comes marriage, then

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comes baby in the baby carriage.
And you know, that's a cute little

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thing that little girls say. But
what that does is it represents opinions and

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attitudes from and about the people you
surround yourselves with. And so I do

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remember thinking, you know, how
shameful that it was to be a teen

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mom, or how you know people
who were addicts really didn't have self control,

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or how people who were felons,
you know, deserved what they got

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had gotten in terms of their punishment. And what I didn't recognize is that

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what I thought was that we all
had the same choices. And so I

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remember when I one of the first
weeks I was in my role as CEO,

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I was working on the production line
to sort of get to know our

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operations and get to know the women, and I said to one of the

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women, you know, how do
you get here? And she said,

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well, when I was ten or
twelve, I started selling drugs and that

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gave me the ability to support my
Maybe she was sixteen and she was supporting

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her son and her brother or something
like that. And I said, well,

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didn't you, you know, think
about sort of what was going to

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happen in the long term, because
she eventually went to prison. And I

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asked it. In hindsight, I'm
mortified that I asked the question this way.

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But I asked it as though,
you know, she had this whole

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menu of choices, and she chose
selling drugs over going to like high school

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prom or you know, college prep
courses, and the reality is that that's

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not the choice. What I've learned
is that often the women are chased faced

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with five bad choices, and they
choose the one that they think is maybe

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the best of the bad. But
what makes it a good choice might be

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that she's able to make enough money
selling drugs to support her kids. And

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so I think what happened was over
and over again. I was just confronted

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with this idea that what I thought
was good and bad was actually totally contextual.

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Yeah, I just really, you
really brought it home. It's so

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powerfully Tamraa in your book, and
I really, like I said, you

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really opened a lot of understanding and
comprehension and empathy and compassion and me for

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sure, and I hope our listeners
too and our viewers. So I want

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to go just a little bit deeper, because you entitle your book the Third

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Law, and you really have come
to understand women in poverty and women marginalized

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in a way that probably very few
uts will ever understand the way that you

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do. Can you say a bit
more about just how disenfranchised they are from

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the community in every sense essentially.
Yeah, Well, first I'll say I

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called it the Third Law because it
refers to Newton's Third law motion for every

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action, there's an equal and opposite
reaction, and I wanted to talk about

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that. I thought of that as
the title because I really see that women

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work so hard to change their lives, and yet there are so many things

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that push back on that change.
So one example is that the way the

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criminal justice system works, so women
get out of they do their time in

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prison, they get out, maybe
they're in a halfway house or on parole.

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Well, some of the requirements for
they have to keep a job as

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a requirement of their parole, and
then they also have requirements, say to

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do drug testing. So if you're
on a random drug test schedule, you

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have to call in every single day
or now it's probably moved to online,

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but you have to go log in
every day to find out whether or not

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that's your day. And so you
can't warn your employer ahead of time that

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you have to go in and you
have until five pm then to go and

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get your drug tests. Well,
that means that every random intervals you're forced

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to talk to your employer about the
fact that you're still on parole and you're

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still being monitored. And so,
you know, when you think about that,

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is it sounds like a pretty simple
thing, but it also means that

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every day you're confronted with these mistakes
that you made. I think that what's

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interesting about our criminal justice system is
that the whole system is geared toward depersonalizing

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or dehumanizing people. You get a
number when you're convicted, and then in

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fact, when you finish your sentence, the term is that you killed your

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number and so and so, For
instance, if you have an appointment with

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your parle officer. Let's say it's
at eight thirty in the morning, and

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you let your employer know that you
have to the appointment. They can make

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you wait two or three hours to
see them, and so then you know,

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you think about the whole day,
or you know, the better part

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of a day is shot in terms
of work and earning an income, and

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those are all things that you,
as a pear league, don't have any

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control over. You don't get to
say, well, I would like to

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have my appointment on Wednesday at two
thirty, because that's you know, I'm

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off work. You're told when those
things are happening. And you know,

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that's just one example. There are
so many other examples, whether it is

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the benefits that are helping people bridge
the gap while they're working, they're moving

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into the work world. If you
make a dollar too much, benefits get

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cut off. There aren't most of
the benefits do not have ramps, they

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have cliffs, and so you think
about you know, she takes several steps

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forward and she's starting to earn an
income, and then the next thing you

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know, she's just earned a little
bit too much and she's no longer eligible

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for that thing that maybe was allowing
her to not only work but feed her

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kids. So I you know,
it's a little bit as you can tell,

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and from the book, it's a
bit of a soapbox thing for me,

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because I think that it's there are
so many things we as a society,

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and when as voters, when we're
voting on policy or we're sending people

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to Washington and they're determining policy,
very few people are understanding how what that

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policy looks like boots on the ground
as it's being implemented, which I definitely

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want to talk about further when we
talk about just some of your ideas for

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reform and to be able to address
these things. But I just was blown

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away camera by just the sheer number
of boxed in situations these women find themselves,

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and you know, in terms of
what the rules are in the halfway

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house, what they have, it's
one single enter and it served at this

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one time. They can't talk to
fellow felons, who do they talk to,

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They can't talk to a whole array, and so just learning the rules

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and all these constraints seemed completely overwhelming
to me. Well, I think it's

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both that and even keeping track of
you know of what the rules are,

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and that also understanding when the rule
stops and you have some self efficacy,

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which I also talk about in my
book. I remember when when President Obama

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was for the first time he ran
for office, and we our old location

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for Women's Being Project used to be
across the street from a lovely park,

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and Michelle Obama gave a speech in
that park, and all our women went

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to hear her talk and got super
excited about voting for president for Obama and

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getting him elected. And so a
bunch of them went and registered to vote.

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Well, it turns out that if
you're a fallen it's a felony to

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register to vote, and so several
of them came into work the next day

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and then and a couple of them
on their own realized their mistake and then

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just had to figure out how to
dial that back. But they weren't allowed

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to vote. And also, I
think it's really interesting that it is a

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felony to register to vote, and
that is something that I think that is

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starting to shift in our country,
where we're allowing even prisoners to vote.

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But it really speaks to, in
my view of the biases and prejudices as

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a society we have around people formerly
incarcerated people. Indeed, Wow, So

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I want to dig more into who
comes to the Women's Being Project and really

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what they're up against in terms of
what you're trying to teach them. But

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before we get into that, let's
grab our first break. I'm your host,

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Doctor Release Cortez. We're on the
air with Tamra Ryans. She's the

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CEO of Women's Being Project, a
social enterprise that provides transitional employment while operating

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a food manufacturing business to women attempting
to break the cycle of chronic unemployment and

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poverty. We've been talking a bit
about why timer wrote this book, what

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she's trying to address. After the
break, we're going to talk about the

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kind of women that they actually help, and she's going to start talking a

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little bit about how the criminal justice
system works against rehabilitation. Stay with us,

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will be right back. Doctor Elise
Cortez is a management consultant specializing in

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meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker
and author, she helps companies visioneer for

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a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that

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elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment
within the workforce. To learn more or

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to invite a Lease to speak to
your organization, please visit her at Eliscortes

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dot com. Let's talk about how
to get your employees working on purpose.

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This is working on Purpose with doctor
Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

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or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to a lease Alise

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at Elisecortes dot com. Now back
to working on Purpose. Thanks for staying

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with us, and welcome back to
working on Purpose. I'm your host,

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doctor release Cortes, as I am
dedicated to helping to create a world where

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people realize their potential at work and
are led by inspirational leaders will help them

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find and contribute their greatness and we
do business a better's the world. I

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continue to write my own books and
so my latest came out in March of

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twenty twenty three. It's called The
Great Revitalization. How activating meeting and purpose

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can radically enliven your business. And
I wrote it to help leaders understand the

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lay of today's workforce land and then
giving them twenty two best purchases to be

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able to equip them to build the
culture to actually address what they want.

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You can learn more about it at
at leastcore test dot com or find the

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book on Amazon if you are just
joining us now. My guest is tam

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or Ryan. She's the author of
The Third Law, a book which highlights

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the societal obstacles and internal demons that
must be overcome for marginalized women to change

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their lives. Okay, so now
let's do that. Let's talk. Let's

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really help our listeners and viewers understand
who does who the Women's Being Project serve.

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So first if you could talk about, you know, the core of

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the social enterprise mission of the Being
Project, what it is, it's that

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it's actually out to do. And
then I want you to talk about the

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typical woman that applies for work at
the project. Sure, well, as

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a social enterprise, we are hiring
women to come to work for us for

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six to nine months into a transitional
job, and we see employment as one

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of the most important stepping stones to
self sufficiency. So our entire focus is

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on helping her overcome her barriers to
employment. And what we know is that

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barriers. What I know today is
barriers really don't happen singularly. They're complex

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and their innerwoven and there and they're
often really challenging to overcome, and they

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look like things like not having housing
or being formerly incarcerated. And so the

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women come to work for us for
the sixty to nine month period, and

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during the time they're with us,
they split their full time paid job.

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Seventy percent is working in our food
manufacturing business. They might also help us

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ship. We ship all across the
US. We have a retail store at

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our location. They might work there. They're basically helping us operate the business.

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Thirty percent of their paid time is
spent working on themselves, so we

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call it the bean job and the
U job the you job. During that

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thirty percent, they are working on
very important skills like better communication and conflict

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resolution and healthy really relationships and working. They do a trauma skills workshop where

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they're working on their PTSD symptoms,
so it's a very internalized thing. Then

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they're also learning things like basic computer
skills financial literacy. So it's both things

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that translate to a work environment,
but also things that help her show up

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differently in a work environment and I
think also make her a better mom and

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a better community member. I mean, ultimately, when we're helping a woman

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change her life. We have to
remember that that ripple extends way beyond her.

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I really believe when you change a
woman's life, you change your family's

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life. And that's what we get
to witness. A typical woman who comes

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to us hasn't had a job longer
than a year in her lifetime. The

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average age is in the mid thirties. She has an average of three children.

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What we used to see is she
rarely would have custody of those kids.

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We're seeing definitely now a transition that
she often does have custody of her

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kids. And so we're finding that
we need to help her find resources for

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childcare and also you know, things
as simple as diapers, support and things

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like that. She is most likely
was a teen mom. She often is

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a recovering addict. Ninety five percent
or so of the women we serve are

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former formerly incarcerated, almost always related
to addiction, and so I think that's

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what's important and one of the things
I recognized when I saw that rarely does

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a woman go to a prison for
a violent offense. It's almost always something

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she was doing to support her habit, or perhaps she was arrested and she

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was convicted of possession with intent to
distribute, even if that's not what she

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intended. So when you think about
barriers to employment, you know, I've

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hit on all the big ones,
you know for sure. Also lots of

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history of domestic violence or some sort
of abuse in her younger years. And

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when you look at female prison population
that's also overlaps, you really see that

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a lot. And then one of
the things I talk about in my book

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is, in addition to histories of
addiction, also histories of mental illness,

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which in many women are interrelated.
They don't necessarily stand in isolation. They

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really In fact, that chapter is
called chicken and egg because you know who,

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we don't really know which comes first
for for people. Oh there's so

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much there camera, So yeah,
I just what I want to make sure

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that our listeners and viewers understand because
they haven't yet read the book like I

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have, is just really the full
extent of what these women are up against,

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and they that they just really don't
they don't really have any entry level

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skills that that are that are assailable, and that really most no one else

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will really give them a job.
And so your program is is is really

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it's a lifesaver, and it's a
lifeline, and I remember the status what

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was like four un and fifty women
might apply, but you have space for

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forty or fifty of them or something
like that. Yeah, And even so,

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the book has been out for a
while, and during the pandemic we

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really saw the applicant pool dip.
We're back to seeing we hire four times

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a year now and we are going
to hire in February. Our next higher

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date will hire. We have space
for about eight women, and we have

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over two hundred applicants for those eight
spots. So it really what my sense

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emergency is that the demand is much
greater than the supply in this case,

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and so I go to work every
day thinking about, Okay, how do

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we increase our capacity and for us, sales create jobs. We're an unusual

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nonprofit organization in that regard because sales
are our leading indicator. That's what creates

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employment. Because if we don't have
enough work, it's not really a meaningful

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experience. While she's on the production
line, she's going to be learning the

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basics of job readiness, the fact
that you have to come to work every

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day and on time, and take
direction and pay attention to detail. Those

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are things that won't matter where she
goes in the future. And in fact,

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we're not trying to train the future
being supmakers of America, which obviously

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would be somewhat limited. We are
really trying to help women learn the basic

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skills that every employer says that they
need. Beautiful, Okay, so you've

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already alluded this, but I do
want to just take it a little bit

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deeper here because it's such a I
think it's such an important thing that you're

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exposing here, and that is how
the criminal justice system works against rehabilitation.

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First, that these women are actually
in prison for an addiction or a mental

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health issue disorder invariably, and then
they're up against the criminal justice system.

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Yes, well, again, I
think the system is not really about rehabilitation.

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I mean, I think we'd like
to belie believe that it is,

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but I don't see a lot of
evidence of that. And I do think

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that there is some criminal justice reform
that is happening. I think that often

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it's happening in terms of how people
end up in prison, not what happens

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once they're in So there are a
number of things. For instance, historically,

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when you're in prison, you're really
viewed as cheap labor, and so

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you you might have an opportunity work, but in many instances you're just earning

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a few pennies an hour, and
so that would be you know, and

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the labor really is not necessarily something
that's preparing people for what they're going to

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do next. We have rules in
many of our states where, for instance,

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you could get trained in some instances
to get a cosmetology license, but

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many states have the rule that when
you get out, you can't actually you're

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not allowed to have the license because
you have a felony. And so,

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you know, it begs a question, why would we train people for something

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they can't have right and and so
you know, and we make the make

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the bar for again when somebody is
released. We make the rules so rigid

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that it really makes it challenging to
keep a job because you're faced every day

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with the fact that you have you're
still dealing with your your sentence in some

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way. And I think that what
ends up happening is that it is more

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about proving to someone that they're bad
and they deserve punishment than about saying here's

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here is a different path for your
future. There Again, there have been

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some changes in the state of Colorado, for instance. Now the state just

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passed a bill where prisoners who are
who get an education get a certain amount

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of time on off of their sentence, and the higher the level of education,

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the more time they get off of
their sentence. And so I do

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think that we're starting to see some
shifts. What we have to realize,

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though, is that over the last
forty years, there has been an over

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eight hundred percent increase in women being
sent to prison, and so we'refore quite

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some time going to be as a
society dealing with We might be decreasing the

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inflow into prison, but we're dealing
with formally incarcerated people who in our communities

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have a twenty seven percent unemployment rate, which is higher than any time in

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our history as a country, including
during the depression, which I think is

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pretty significant for us to think about
as a culture. If we're going to

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expect someone who's been basically in a
system that's dehumanized them to suddenly be released

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into the community and become human,
and yet kind them off at the knees,

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not higher them, not not give
them the resources that they need in

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order to re enter the community.
I mean, what if we really expect

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is going to happen. I mean, I think it's those kinds of things

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that really drive recidivism. Not so
much that people can't change. I think

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we make it so hard for them
to create new lives for themselves. One

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of the things that you said that
really struck me was you don't know how

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they can stay motivated sometimes with all
their up against I mean I could see

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that too. How do you keep
moving one day after the other, up

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against all of these barriers and obstacles. I think what ends up happening,

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And it doesn't surprise me, given
you sort of human nature, But I

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think what ends up happening is you
just sort of give it up and give

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it up to God typically, and
you sort of say, well, if

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it's God's will, then it'll happen. Because when I hear women say that,

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it's usually not a spiritual belief.
It's really a lack of self efficacy.

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And so I think that that's a
defense mechanism to keep from feeling so

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demoralized. We had a woman in
our program, and I talked about her

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in the book. She started selling
drugs when she was pretty young, early

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teens, and that was because both
of her parents were using and so then

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and that was how she thought she
could spend more time with them. And

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then by the time she was sixteen
or seventeen, she'd had her first child.

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And she is very smart, and
so she became a pretty big time

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drug dealer, and she actually had
four children. She was a big enough

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drug dealer that she actually was convicted
on federal charges. She went away to

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federal prison. When I met her, she had gotten out of prison,

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and she had cussy. Of all
four of her kids by then, they

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were aging and ranging in age from
eight to eighteen, and she was had

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At the time, I think our
wage was about eight dollars an hour,

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and she was making our wage at
Women's Being Project, and she was getting

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one hundred and fifty dollars a month
in food stamps. And believe it or

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not, she was making that work, which I would love, you know,

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any of us would benefit from that
kind of creativity. She went in

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for her redetermination for her food stamps, she and they caught her because she

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made too much to twenty five dollars
a month. And she said to me,

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I don't know why I'm trying,
because I didn't have to worry about

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this when I was selling drugs,
I could always provide for my kids,

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and we helped her bridge the gap
for a period of time and got her

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access to food, and she was
pretty close to finishing our program. When

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she finished, she actually got a
job with ironically, a food distributor,

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making over eighteen dollars an hour.
And what I will say is I love

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00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:48.880
that story because of the irony of
it and the fact that you know she

409
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.680
was able to say but too often
that's not how the story ends. But

410
00:30:52.799 --> 00:31:02.960
the story ends with somebody feeling very
demoralized and disempowered. And we can we

411
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.119
can do a lot as an organization
in terms of helping helping her feel more

412
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.920
empowered and helping her witness success.
But when society and the systems are working

413
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:17.599
against her, that's really a really
big challenge that's hard for one organization to

414
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:21.200
overcome. I think it's really important
to talk about it. And of course,

415
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:23.119
as I'm I said of my introduction, I'm an organizational psychologist, so

416
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.720
self equacy efficacy is a word and
a phrase that I understand very well.

417
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:30.640
But I think it's really important that
we bring this point home because you know

418
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.400
that you talk about how this lack
of self efficacy is common among these women,

419
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:37.720
and they because they do feel helpless. They have all of these things,

420
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:42.200
somebody else is controlling their their schedules, their comings and goings, how

421
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:45.720
much they can make, what kind
of benefits they can get. You know,

422
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.480
they're trying to figure out how to
stay out of prison, finish their

423
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.279
sentence. There's all these external factors
that set them up to believe that they

424
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:56.920
have no control over anything that happens
to them. And I think that's really

425
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.680
important to situate because well, no
wonder you know, they're they're making the

426
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:06.440
choices that they're making. Yeah,
And I want to make sure that your

427
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:09.119
viewers and listeners don't think what I'm
saying is, oh, you know,

428
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:14.720
poor these poor women, they're all
victims, because that's not what I'm saying.

429
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:19.000
I'm a very firm believer in personal
responsibility. And in fact, when

430
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.000
we hire women, you know,
one might be wondering, when we have

431
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.880
two hundred applicants and we can hire
eight women, how do we decide?

432
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.359
And one of the key things that
we're looking for is someone being ready to

433
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:38.400
make change, and we're so we're
listening for change language versus someone coming to

434
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.680
us to an interview and saying and
talking about how all the things that have

435
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:47.240
happened to her happened because other people
did them right. And so you know,

436
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:51.839
I do want to say that we
are firm believers in that. And

437
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.079
yet what I watch is that even
while the women are trying so hard to

438
00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:00.720
take control of their lives and to
you at a job, keep with their

439
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:06.279
job, support their kids, or
get custody back of their kids, I

440
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.720
just feel like they just get cut
off at the knees so many times that

441
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.480
and that might be that once they
I've watched women apply to get an apartment

442
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:22.440
and have the landlord turn her down
because she had a criminal charge on her

443
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:27.200
record. It wasn't her conviction,
but the charge was intent to kill,

444
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:36.000
and she was convicted of a misdemeanor, a misdemeanor charge but or eventually convicted

445
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.279
of a misdemeanor, but the charge
was intent to kill, and so landlords

446
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:43.480
wouldn't rent to her. So how
do you tell someone no, you have

447
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:47.480
control over what happens when somebody else
really actually has control over whether or not

448
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:52.119
she could get an apartment, for
instance, Yeah, thank you for that

449
00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:54.960
clarification. Camera and I'll just say
this before a grab on the next break,

450
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:58.680
So listeners of yours as we take
our next break, think about this,

451
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:01.559
because I think what Tim situating here
about what these women are up against

452
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.240
will help us situate what she's going
to share with us about some of the

453
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.079
ways that she's putting forth that maybe
we could address and start to improve these

454
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:15.880
societal and systemic issues and institutions.
I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez.

455
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:17.679
We've been on the air with Tama
Ryan. She's the CEO of Women's Being

456
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:22.880
Project, a social enterprise that provides
transitional employment while operating a food manufacturing business

457
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:28.599
to women attempting to break the cycle
of chronic unemployment and poverty. After the

458
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.559
break, we're going to talk about
her perspective and what she's learned about how

459
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.039
mental illness works with drug use and
poverty, how they all intersect. Stay

460
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:55.079
with us, will be right back. Doctor release Court has as a management

461
00:34:55.119 --> 00:35:00.199
consultant specializing in meaning and purpose.
An inspirational speaker and author, she helps

462
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:07.079
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused

463
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:10.960
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn

464
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.639
more or to invite a lease to
speak to your organization, please visit her

465
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:20.360
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk
about how to get your employees working on

466
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:30.119
purpose. This is Working on Purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our

467
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:34.400
program today or to open a conversation
with Elise, send an email to Elise

468
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:45.480
alisee at elisecortes dot com. Now
back to working on Purpose. Thanks for

469
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:49.000
staying with us, and welcome back
to working on Purpose. I'm your host,

470
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.159
doctor release Cortes. I mentioned in
the last break about my latest book,

471
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:54.360
The Great Vitalization. What I did
for you to help you along with

472
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:58.840
your journey is I also created an
organizational assessment for you to learn to the

473
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:01.760
extent to which your company is leadership
and culture are meeting the standards of today's

474
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:05.800
workforce. It's a three page assessment. You can get it. You can

475
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:09.559
download it at gustodashnow dot com and
see how you're actually doing if you are

476
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:13.440
just joining us today. My guest
is Tamra Ryan. She's the author of

477
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:17.519
The Third Law, a book which
highlights the societal obstacles and internal demons that

478
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:22.119
must be overcome for marginalized women to
change their lives. So as we queued

479
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:25.199
up just before the break, I
think the way that you have a whole

480
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:29.840
chapter, as you call it,
Chicken and Eggs, and it's really about

481
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:34.320
mental illness, drug use and how
poverty intersect. And there's lots in there

482
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.159
that really helped you know sort of
mental illness epidemic and what that is.

483
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:40.599
But if you could just speak to
a bit of what you've seen about the

484
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:47.239
chicken and phenomenon of those items.
I found that there were so many women

485
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:53.039
I was meeting who had had been
diagnosed with mental illness, and often they

486
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:59.119
were very eager to tell us because
it was after a long period of time,

487
00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:00.920
you know that they had been diagnosed, so it was such a relief

488
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:06.920
and so and what I also saw
was that there was there seemed to be

489
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:12.199
a lot of overlap between women with
diagnosed mental illness and drug use. And

490
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:15.960
so I did quite a bit of
research, and I realized that we don't

491
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:22.960
actually medically know which comes first.
Does someone who with mental illness perhaps decide

492
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:28.360
to use because they're self medicating,
or does use of drugs cause mental illness?

493
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:30.679
And I suspect you know, the
human body being what it is,

494
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:36.079
it's you know, it's probably a
little bit of both for people. But

495
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.840
then when you look at also sort
of laying over that, the fact that

496
00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:44.559
people who grow up in poverty are
much more likely to have mental illness also,

497
00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:50.639
And that really is when you think
about all the all the stressors of

498
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:53.679
living in poverty and being resource constrained, we want to think of it that

499
00:37:53.760 --> 00:38:01.400
way, how much that stress really
causes people to be challenged in their decision

500
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:08.480
making. It leads to mental illness
in situations where if you don't have the

501
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:13.440
resources, you can't know how often
have we thrown money out a problem because

502
00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:16.280
we have the ability to do that. When you're in a resource constrained environment,

503
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:21.559
you don't have that ability. And
so what it makes the topic really

504
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:24.480
to me really interesting is you can't
just take one thing and say well,

505
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:29.280
if we can fix this one thing, then we can fix the other things.

506
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:34.480
They really are it is pretty complicated. And if you can't really say,

507
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:37.760
well, because she used drugs,
now she has this mental illness,

508
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:42.920
or because she's mentally ill she's using
the drugs, you really have to have

509
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:47.440
to theoretically treat both. Yeah,
yeah, thank you. It's just really

510
00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:52.559
incredibly eye opening. It's just the
how complex the problem is or set our

511
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:54.559
problems are. Okay, so just
briefly, because I do want to get

512
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:59.159
into some of your suggestions on what
we could address. I thought your whole

513
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:04.440
chapter on My Motherhood is Virtually Impossible
to Avoid was incredibly compelling and fascinating,

514
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:08.320
so many new insights. Can you
share a bit of those insights? Yeah,

515
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:14.119
you know, this one really hits
home for me as a mom because

516
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.480
I remember, you know, how
many conversations before I became a mom where

517
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:21.800
you know, I talked with friends
and we'd talk about how you know,

518
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.480
whether or not, you know,
we were often as a couple we were

519
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:30.480
ready to have kids, right,
do we have the right resources, do

520
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:35.519
we have the right house for things
like that? And what I've witnessed with

521
00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:38.320
the women we serve is that it's
almost the reverse. Instead of what can

522
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:42.760
we give the kids, it is
more what can the kid give me?

523
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:49.800
And I found a very interesting book
that was based on a multi year study

524
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:54.199
done in the Philadelphia area called Promises
we Can Keep, and that really helped

525
00:39:54.239 --> 00:40:00.079
me better understand when you are a
woman growing up an environment where what you

526
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.400
see around you is there's there doesn't
seem to be any real good reason to

527
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:07.719
stay in school because you don't see
that anybody is better off because they do.

528
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:12.800
And you really don't have a lot
of self worth, and you're not

529
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:16.039
really valued by your community. But
you witness that when when someone has a

530
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:21.800
baby, that elevates their status in
the community. And when a man says

531
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:23.400
to you, I want to have
a baby with you, that makes you

532
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:30.000
feel worthy, And so when you
think about culturally, I think for me,

533
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:37.639
it helped me reframe how I think
about women in poor communities who have

534
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:45.079
kids, and also why often teen
teenagers have have kids when you know,

535
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.039
from my perspective, she's not ready
and she's not you know, she doesn't

536
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.679
have what she needs in place to
take care of this child. That's not

537
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:58.039
really how it's viewed. And and
to me that was really enlightening. Yes,

538
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:07.199
And so was interesting that I learned
from that book was that if what

539
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.199
it takes to be a good mom, how I would define it versus how

540
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:15.159
a woman in a poor neighborhood might
define it is very different. So a

541
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:17.800
woman in a poor neighborhood might say, well, my kid has diapers and

542
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:22.000
she has clothes on, and I'm
pushing her around in the stroller, and

543
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:28.519
I'm a good mom and and you
know, in my with my paradigm,

544
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:32.920
you know that, and which was
strongly influenced by my upbringing, it is

545
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:38.880
so much more than that. And
so I again, it was a really

546
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:45.119
great example of having grown up and
being surrounded by people who shared my viewpoint

547
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:51.000
and then really see that that wasn't
the case. I overheard two women speaking

548
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:59.360
once and they were talking about how
another, a third person was pregnant,

549
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:04.679
and one said, well, you
know, she really shouldn't be pregnant,

550
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:07.480
she has, you know, several
other kids, And the other one says,

551
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:09.840
well, can't she just give it
away? And it was like a

552
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:17.840
It was such a crass sort of
exchange. But to me, what it

553
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:22.239
probably really speaks to is the fact
that it really, again isn't about what

554
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.840
you were giving the child or have
the ability to give the child. It's

555
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:31.199
about what the child can give to
you. Yeah. I also was impressed

556
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:34.360
by the point that you made that
for some you know, for some of

557
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.559
these women, and given what they're
up against, becoming a parent might be

558
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.559
one of the biggest things they actually
achieve. In life. Well, yes,

559
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.159
and they've achieved it by virtue having
a child, and they could be

560
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:49.119
a great parent or a good mom
by virtue of being able to keep the

561
00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:53.840
baby in diapers and and so I
think that and it is an opportunity for

562
00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:58.920
unconditional love, right And I think
that's a really important thing to remember,

563
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:02.239
is that this this child will will
have to love me. I'm its mother.

564
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:09.159
Mm hmmmm. Very very helpful and
insightful to understand that perspective because,

565
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:12.280
as you say, I did,
that's not the one that I grew up

566
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:15.480
with. So for the last of
the show here, Tim or what I

567
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.280
want to do is I want to
I want to go through as many of

568
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:22.360
the ten things that you put forth
that we can maybe change or support marginalized

569
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:25.239
people in are in the community,
because I think it's fantastic because you put

570
00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:29.360
you've convinced us that there are some
real major issues here and I don't know

571
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:30.440
if there are any you know there. I have the ten in front of

572
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:34.400
me, but if there are,
if there's ones that you really want to

573
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:36.679
speak to first, or if you
want me to list them off, I

574
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.199
want to get as many as we
can. Well, I think I want

575
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:43.719
to say first that I think when
we look at some of these issues,

576
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:47.400
they do really feel big and overwhelming, and they and feel like maybe we

577
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:52.079
can't do anything about it. And
I actually want to challenge that notion that

578
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:57.800
I think in order to affect change
is going to take all of us doing

579
00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:04.760
our little bit to lift up everyone. And so that's my list of ten

580
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.800
things. Is most of them are
actually pretty little things like become a big

581
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:12.400
brother or a big sister with big
brothers and big sisters. And the reason

582
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:17.079
I use that as an example is
because the research shows that if a child

583
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:21.280
has just one adult and it doesn't
have to be a family member, that

584
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:25.039
could be the thing that ultimately sets
them on a very different path. So

585
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:30.760
that's a big one. I think
helping people. What I would like to

586
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:35.440
do if I could say one thing
that in my lifetime, if I could,

587
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:37.960
if I could accomplish, it would
be to change hearts and minds to

588
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:44.400
convince people to hire based on talent
and potential rather than background. Yes,

589
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:50.079
and so there are probably many people
watching or listening today who have the ability

590
00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:53.519
to hire people. And I would
say, give a formally incarcerated person a

591
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:58.159
chance. The research shows that they
are much more loyal and they are great

592
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:04.280
employees. That would be one thing
that I think it would be relatively easy

593
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:07.199
to do. One of the things
that might be a little controversial on my

594
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:12.000
list is that I said, let
addicts fail or succeed on their own.

595
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:19.079
And I say that because very often
loved ones of people who are in the

596
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:23.079
midst of their addiction inadvertently do very
do a lot of things that really actually

597
00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:28.280
enable the addiction. And as heartbreaking
as it is, we need to let

598
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.840
them go and do it for themselves, because the only person that's in that

599
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:37.880
addiction is that person. And so
again, when I wrote that chapter in

600
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:42.679
the book, I was I knew
it was kind of a harsh perspective,

601
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:49.000
but I do really believe that you've
got to do that. What else is

602
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.639
there? There's foster, adopt a
child from the US. We have a

603
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:58.239
tendency in our country to adopt lots
and lots of kids from other countries countries.

604
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.880
Yeah, and that's there's nothing wrong
with that, But there also aren't

605
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:06.920
enough families in our country who are
willing to adopt. And that comes from

606
00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:09.559
the perspective I know, you know
that I by the last chapter of the

607
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:15.840
book is about the journey our family
has been on and adopting our son who

608
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:20.960
came to our family when he was
two and today is sixteen years old and

609
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:27.000
six foot three. But that has
definitely been a journey and probably one of

610
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.639
the most challenging things I've done in
my life. Yes, and I really

611
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:34.920
applaud that, and it's very inspiring
to me. And you have your own

612
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:37.800
daughter as well, so the two
of them together are your family. Now.

613
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:40.079
A few of the things that you
said that you offer here that I

614
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:45.239
think are interesting and worth mentioning is, you know, support a safe house.

615
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:49.519
You know, you also mentioned support
a women's foundation in your area.

616
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:53.360
Those are two things that are extremely
actionable right now. Yeah, absolutely,

617
00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:58.199
and they really come from the standpoint
of, you know, there are you

618
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:01.559
know, we view our work at
Women's Being Project on a continuum and we

619
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:07.280
don't want it to be all things
to all people, and yet there are

620
00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:10.079
A safe house is a place where
a woman can go where, you know,

621
00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:14.280
for a short period of time,
it can get her out of an

622
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:17.639
abusive situation, where she can get
on her feet and then she can start

623
00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:22.440
planning for her what her life is
going to be like and there are way

624
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:27.159
to view beds across the country.
In any city you look at, there

625
00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:30.719
are too few beds in safe houses, so that would be a way to

626
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.960
help expand the resources. And then
a women's foundation. The great thing about

627
00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:39.840
that is they support women at sort
of all levels. Colorado the Women's Foundation

628
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:45.000
of Colorado helps young women be more
likely to go to college and is particularly

629
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:51.760
first generation college students. And so
within women's foundations you can often find causes

630
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:57.519
that really resonate with you, that
relate to women. Beautiful, Tamra,

631
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:00.760
We're at the end of the program
here, and you know by now that

632
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.760
this program is listening to by people
around the world who are out trying to

633
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:07.400
either join or create workplaces where people
can thrive. We develop those and solutionarers

634
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:09.760
that lead them to their greatness and
we do business better in the world.

635
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:15.119
What would you like to leave them
with that we don't have to accept the

636
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:19.920
things we don't like. One of
the things I respect most about jesse Er,

637
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:23.760
our founder, is that she looked
around and saw things she didn't like.

638
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:28.000
And we all do that, but
not very many of us do something

639
00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:30.960
about it. And we all can
do something about it, even if it's

640
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:35.440
really little. It's going to take
all of us to change the world.

641
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:38.519
Beautiful way to finish, tam Or, thank you very much. We are

642
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:43.679
about working on purpose here and mattering, so I think that's a great invitation

643
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.719
and challenge. Thank you very much
for your work, your heart, your

644
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:52.880
soul and being on working on purpose. Thank you so much. Very welcome

645
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:55.239
listeners, viewers. If you'll learn
more about Tama Ryan, her book or

646
00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:59.079
the work she and her team are
doing at the Women's Being Project, start

647
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:05.320
at the Women's Being So it's Women's
Bean Projects, So Women's beea nproject dot

648
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:07.119
com. Last week, if you
missed the live show, you can always

649
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:10.199
catch it be a recorded podcast,
we are on the air with Debs Malenski

650
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:15.320
talking about her book Brain On.
We learned we have an opportunity to nurture

651
00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:19.599
our relationship with our very own brains
and some strategies to best utilize our focus

652
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:22.480
and handle our emotions during the day
to tackle our most prized projects and get

653
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:25.480
the results we most want. Next
week, we'll be on the air with

654
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:30.480
Brad Doutster, the author of Belonging
Rules, Five crucial actions that build unity

655
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.920
and foster performance. See you there
and remember work is one of the best

656
00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:37.400
adventures and means of realizing our potential
and making the impact we crave. So

657
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:45.039
let's work on Purpose. We hope
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure

658
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:49.199
to tune into Working on Purpose featuring
your host, doctor Release Cortes, each

659
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:53.519
week on W four CY. Together
we'll create a world where business operates conscientiously.

660
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:59.320
Leadership inspires and passion performance, and
employees are fulfilled in work that provides

661
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:02.599
the meaning and purpose they crave.
See you there, Let's work on Purpose.

662
00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:07.039
M m hm