When Being Stuck on Performance Misses the Mark

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.359
The topics and opinions express in the
following show are solely those of the hosts

2
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.080
and their guests, and not those
of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are

3
00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:10.119
affiliates. We make no recommendations or
endorsements for radio show programs, services,

4
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.599
or products mentioned on air or on
our web. No liability, explicit or

5
00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:17.440
implied shall be extended to W FOURCY
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any

6
00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.879
questions or comments should be directed to
those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

7
00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:31.519
W FOURCY Radio. What's working on
Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder

8
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:35.320
the answer to this question. People
ache for meaning and purpose at work,

9
00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:40.520
to contribute their talents passionately and know
their lives really matter. They crave being

10
00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:44.880
part of an organization that inspires them
and helps them grow into realizing their highest

11
00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.840
potential. Business can be such a
force for good in the world, elevating

12
00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:53.359
humanity. In our program, we
provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in

13
00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:58.640
this world we all want Working on
Purpose. Now here's your host, Doctor

14
00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:06.439
Relise Cortez. Welcome back to the
Working on Purpose program. Thinks you shoot

15
00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:07.640
again this week. It's great to
have you. I have been hosting this

16
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:11.359
show since February of twenty fifteen.
It is a labor of love. I'm

17
00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:15.319
your host, Doctor releasecore Test.
If we haven't met before and you don't

18
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.760
know me, I'm a management consultant, organizational local therapist, a speaker and

19
00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.920
author. My team and I at
ELAE Corre Test and Associates help companies to

20
00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:26.439
enliven and ported by their operations by
articulating their purpose and building inspirational leaders and

21
00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:30.040
cultures activated by meeting and purpose to
turn those companies from a flatline EKG to

22
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:34.599
a vibrant destination workplace. There people
are intrinsically motivated to perform with their best,

23
00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:38.519
grow up to their floor potential,
and are committed to stay and dynamic

24
00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:41.040
to deliver on the company's mission.
You can learn more about us and now

25
00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:45.000
we can work together at a lascore
test dot com. Getting into today's program,

26
00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:48.879
we have us with us. Eduardo
Presenno. He is a global keynote

27
00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:53.239
speaker and facilitator who guides many of
the world's leading companies and developing cultures of

28
00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.640
learning and high performance. Earlier in
his career, he was the co founder

29
00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:00.319
and CEO of Mindset Works, the
first company to offer growth mindset development services.

30
00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:05.480
He's the author of The Performance Paradox, Turning the Power of mindset into

31
00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:08.319
Action and joys Today from San Jose, California at d Watervill Welcome to Working

32
00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:10.960
on Purpose. Thank you, Lise. It's great to be here. Thanks

33
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:14.919
for having me, so good to
have you on. As I mentioned whore

34
00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:17.719
we got on air, I thoroughly
enjoyed your book and devoured it. So

35
00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:23.319
I want to start with sort of
maybe a common denominator here. I have

36
00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:27.159
been greatly affected by doctor Carrol Duex's
work on the growth mindset, but you

37
00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:30.439
have more been deeply and transformed by
her work. So can we start with

38
00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:36.039
the story of how you met her
and how knowing her work and work together

39
00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.800
has changed your life. Absolutely,
it has changed my life in so many

40
00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:42.960
dimensions, and the lives of so
many other people. But I met her

41
00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:46.680
when I was in grad school.
I was looking to pivot in my career

42
00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:51.080
and actually try to find purpose that
was and developed purpose. That was a

43
00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.919
big reason why I went to grad
school. And I was exploring different social

44
00:02:54.039 --> 00:03:00.360
entrepreneurship ideas and I got a I
studied business and education, and she was

45
00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.159
looking for somebody with a business background
that I had, and so we were

46
00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:07.840
introduced to because she was interested in
bringing the idea of growth mindset out into

47
00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:13.280
the world, in particular to schools, to help schools develop cultures of learning,

48
00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:16.400
cultures of growth mindset, cultures that
assumed that people can change and develop

49
00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:20.599
rather than just kind of perform all
the time and show how good they are.

50
00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.159
It's more about kind of instead of
proving improving. And so when I

51
00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:27.719
learned, we were introduced and I
learned about her work, and I read

52
00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:31.000
her book, and we started talking
every two weeks, and I realized in

53
00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:37.319
learning about her work that my beliefs
had gotten in the way of my goals.

54
00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:40.000
I had gotten in you know,
in my own way, in fixed

55
00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.560
mindset beliefs that I had in different
areas of my life. And we can

56
00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.800
talk about what that is, but
that was the first way that that her

57
00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:52.120
work changed my life, is just
to increase my self awareness and realize how

58
00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:54.039
some of the ways I was thinking
about myself and my abilities and also the

59
00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:59.080
abilities of other people were just really
creating problems. Then, you know,

60
00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:01.159
I co founded Mindset Works with her, and she's been my mentor for sixteen

61
00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:04.879
years. So that's been life changing
in and of itself. Actually had lunch

62
00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:08.879
with her, I mean dinner with
her two days ago. So it's been

63
00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:13.120
amazing to be on this journey with
her as a supporter and mentor. Such

64
00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.639
a testament to the power of who
we can attract and recruit into our lives

65
00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:19.519
to transform our lives. It's so
amazing. I don't remember when it was

66
00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:24.399
I got exposed to her work at
the viol but I remember reading her book

67
00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.240
on the growth mindset, and I
have, of course embraced that work for

68
00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:30.759
years. I've met so many people
though, who don't know about this work

69
00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:34.000
though, So maybe let's start with
if you could contrast or distinguish fixed versus

70
00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:38.800
growth mindset as she talks about.
Absolutely, Yeah, a lot of people

71
00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:44.120
don't know about her work, and
then a lot of people also know about

72
00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.439
growth mindset, but also have an
understanding that's different from what it actually is.

73
00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:51.399
So when we ask people what a
growth mindset is, we often hear

74
00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:58.120
it's about working hard, or it's
about persevering or having high expectations, and

75
00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:01.040
a growth mindset is none of those
things. A growth mindset is a perspective

76
00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.800
about the nature of human beings.
Is the belief that we can change,

77
00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:10.079
the belief that our abilities or qualities
are malleable and we can develop them,

78
00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:13.759
as opposed to a fixed mindset,
which is when we think of our abilities

79
00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:15.600
and qualities as things that are static. So, for example, if we

80
00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.319
think that intelligence is something that people
either have or don't have, or have

81
00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:24.319
aout a particular level, that will
be a fixed mindset about intelligence, versus

82
00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:28.160
anybody can become smarter, that would
be a growth mindset about intelligence. Or

83
00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.639
if we think people are great leaders
because they're natural leaders, that would be

84
00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.800
an indication of a fixed mindset we
think that they either have it or they

85
00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:38.279
don't have it, Or if we
think that kind of introversion and extroversion are

86
00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:42.639
things that don't change in people.
So we can think about any quality or

87
00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:46.319
ability as you know, things that
we develop or things that are fixed or

88
00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.399
somewhere in between, and our beliefs
can can shift too. It's not it's

89
00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:54.319
not like somebody is a growth mindset
person and another is a fixed mindset person.

90
00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.399
We all have fixed mindset beliefs about
certain things, and those things change

91
00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:02.439
based on our circumstances. And so
you know, there's there's always fruitful work

92
00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:08.360
in working on our own self awareness
and thinking about how these beliefs are affecting

93
00:06:08.439 --> 00:06:13.279
us, because what research shows is
that when we believe that we can't change,

94
00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:16.680
what we then start to do is
trying to prove ourselves, to prove

95
00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:20.720
that we are naturals and we are
smart and we are talented, and so

96
00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:25.120
we do the things that we already
know how to do well and perfectly and

97
00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.600
without mistakes and quickly, and if
we make mistakes, we try to hide

98
00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:32.240
them. We might kind of react
defensively to feedback. We don't we give

99
00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:36.040
up when we when we encounter challenges. So there's there's a lot of consequences

100
00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:40.839
to it being in a fixed mindset. And that's that's why, you know,

101
00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:44.879
I had gotten into trouble with my
career and how learning about growth mindset

102
00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.000
really helped me become more self aware
and more effective. Mm hmm, very

103
00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:53.120
very powerful way to distinguish that.
Think about a lot of One of the

104
00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:55.759
things that I really wanted to make
sure we talked about, because I know

105
00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:59.639
this is a very common thing that's
walking around in people's minds, is the

106
00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:03.360
idea of just the way to improve
is simply to work hard and you just

107
00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:06.279
spell that myth quite handling the book, and you talk a little bit more

108
00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:11.600
about why it's not just about working
hard to help us improve. Yeah,

109
00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.959
that was another issue with that I
run into is I just figured that I

110
00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.319
just had to work hard, and
if you just work hard, you'll get

111
00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:23.519
better and that's the key to success. And what I've realized and what I've

112
00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:28.199
learned, is that there's actually two
different types of hard work. There's hard

113
00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:31.800
work to perform or execute, and
there's hard work to improve or learn.

114
00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:35.560
And I call those the performance zone
and the learning zone. So we tend

115
00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:41.639
to kind of walk around thinking that
the way somebody becomes great at something,

116
00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.079
it's just by doing that activity for
many, many hours and then they become

117
00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.879
great. But that's not true.
So if you look at research, for

118
00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:54.800
example, if you look at a
great athlete when they are playing a tournament

119
00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.519
match that is a high stakes match, they're focused on performing, so they

120
00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:03.319
focus on what they already know well, they're trying to minimize mistakes. If

121
00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.800
they're having trouble with a particular move, they're going to avoid that move during

122
00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.439
that match because their goals to win
points. And we only see that we

123
00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:16.120
only see them performing. We think
that the way they became so great great

124
00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:18.759
was just to playing a lot of
matches, but actually what they do after

125
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.920
the match is how they improve.
After the match, they'll say, you

126
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.920
know this move that I was avoiding
during the match, that's what I want

127
00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:28.959
to practice now because that's my opportunity
for improvement. So it's when we're focused

128
00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.600
on beyond what we can do,
doing things that we don't know how to

129
00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:37.200
do well, taking risks and going
beyond the known. That's what is called

130
00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.000
the learning zone, and that is
what enables us to improve. And so

131
00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.519
we need to embed both the performance
z on the learning zone are both really

132
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:50.840
critical, but we need to We
tend to most of us tend to get

133
00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.240
stuck in chronic performance and just just
trying to get things done as best as

134
00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.360
we know how, trying to minimize
mistakes, and that works well. We're

135
00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:01.600
novices. If we don't know how
to do something, we will get better

136
00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.399
just by trying to do it.
But then we'll stagnate. Even though we're

137
00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:07.720
working really hard, and so we're
putting a lot of effort, we're not

138
00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:11.799
getting better and we conclude we can't
get better. Right, So that's a

139
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:16.279
fixed mindset. But the realities that
we're not using the right strategies, we're

140
00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.720
only in we're stuck in chronic performance. There are people who also like over

141
00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:22.840
index on the learning zone side.
When they learn about this distinction, they

142
00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:26.440
realize, well, I'm spending too
much time on the learning zone. I'm

143
00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.960
not performing and so I'm not getting
results and I'm not contributing contributing. So

144
00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.720
we do need both of these zones
and figure out how do we foster kind

145
00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.399
of habits and systems to engage in
both both of these zones as individuals and

146
00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.399
as teams and organizations. So much
great stuff on all of that at war,

147
00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.600
But now one of the things I
also wanted to have you address what

148
00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:48.039
we talked about just briefly. We
got on error together, and it's just

149
00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:52.000
the notion of developing and implementing habits
and strategies that support growth. So whatever

150
00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:54.960
those might be. As I told
you, one of my habits and one

151
00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.360
of my strategies is that I host
a show every week for eight and a

152
00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:00.679
half years, and I read the
book cover to cover. That is a

153
00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.720
habit and a strategy that I used
to support my growth. Can you say

154
00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:07.159
a bit more about how people can
develop those habits and strategies. Absolutely,

155
00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.200
yeah, that is such a kind
of conscious and deliberate habit that enables you

156
00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.200
both to learn and perform, right, because the conversations that you have with

157
00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:18.000
your guests are so much richer because
you've read the books and you've gone deep

158
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:22.080
into their work, and so it
allows you to grow and it also allows

159
00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:24.840
you to perform at a high level
at the same time. And so,

160
00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:28.240
yes, most of our behavior is
driven by our habits. You know,

161
00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:33.000
what is our default, the things
that we do every day every week,

162
00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.120
and so we need to think about
how do we embed those systems and habits

163
00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:43.879
so that they support performance but also
so that they perform they support learning,

164
00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:48.080
and often we our systems and habits
are just supporting performance. So for example,

165
00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.600
in LinkedIn, you know, they
they have a weekly meeting with the

166
00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.600
top one hundred leaders, And in
most weekly meetings in most companies, they're

167
00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:01.159
all about performance, right, They're
about what needs to be done by when,

168
00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:03.879
how do we keep ourselves accountable?
All those things are really important,

169
00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:07.720
but we haven't kind of put in
the systems for learning. And so one

170
00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:13.960
thing they did, as among many
things is they put a section of the

171
00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:18.240
weekly agenda that was only to share
what people have learned recently in the prior

172
00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:22.840
week and what they're going what people
can do differently as a result of that

173
00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.480
insight. So that's a really easy
way to change the conversations, just to

174
00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.600
change the agenda. And it's it
just it creates a habit, a system

175
00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.679
to both perform and learn at the
same time. Just like for you,

176
00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:37.480
you know, you make it a
habit to continue to learn, to read

177
00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:39.279
the books of your guests, and
that en share your growth and your performance.

178
00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.679
Yeah, and I studied them like
as I mentioned too, and again

179
00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.399
then I use that as that's my
ongoing research. When I'm also outwriting articles

180
00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.960
or speaking, I can actually cite
these sources. So and then it contributes

181
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.960
to my performance. As you're saying, now you have a habit of getting

182
00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.320
up every single day, and then
you have something that you say to yourself

183
00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:01.679
before you open your laptop. Tell
us what that is. Again, well,

184
00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.399
I do several things that my morning
habit is my most treasured habit,

185
00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:09.679
is my most important habit. It
starts with gratitude. That puts things in

186
00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:13.960
perspective and it helps me see the
good in the world about what's most important.

187
00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:16.440
So I do several things, but
one of the things that I do

188
00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:22.559
that is really important to me is
to remind myself every morning of what I'm

189
00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:28.000
working to improve in myself, you
know, so that improvement is not just

190
00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:33.600
a reactionary thing where when I make
mistakes, that's important too, but I'm

191
00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.960
driving my own evolution. My default
is to continue to change every day and

192
00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.879
to work toward that in a proactive
way. I love that I'm driving my

193
00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:46.960
own evolution. Can I steal that? Absolutely? Okay, as long as

194
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.399
I give you credit? Okay,
great, all right. So one of

195
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:52.600
the other things that I found so
compelling about what you've written here, and

196
00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:56.679
I want to see this happen in
many more organizations, whether I get to

197
00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.120
consult with them or not, is
you talk about in your book. In

198
00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.240
my work, I found that people
feel uplifted as they find new ways of

199
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:07.200
working that are more effective and enriching
and joyful, and they discover more ways

200
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:11.600
to let gow fear and pursue creativity, exploration, experimentation. Instead of being

201
00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:16.120
guarded with their colleagues, they're they're
reveling and getting feedback and they're growing from

202
00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.759
that. That's the world that I
want to live in, and that's that's

203
00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:22.440
the organizations, those are the destination
workplaces that I'm trying to help create.

204
00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.759
Can you say a bit more about
why this is important and how can organizations

205
00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:33.320
achieve this? Yeah, So when
when we see ourselves as work in progress,

206
00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:39.639
as we understand that everybody can continue
to improve, it reduces our anxiety

207
00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.399
because, you know, and nobody's
perfect, right and we're all we're not

208
00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.600
going to do anything perfectly. There's
always going to be room for improvement.

209
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:50.840
And so when we make mistakes or
when we don't do something flawlessly, it

210
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:54.840
doesn't you know, we don't get
anxious. We are not ashamed of ourselves.

211
00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:56.720
We don't try to hide those things
from other people, especially if we're

212
00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:03.519
in a community. That's that's that's
that's that has that common understanding and so

213
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:07.480
but it's also more joyful. Right, We're exploring more, we're discovering more,

214
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:11.039
we're being more curious about each other, so we're asking more questions,

215
00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.200
listening better. That means that we
are developing trust, forming deeper bonds with

216
00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:18.799
each other, which allows us to
collaborate better. Both for learning and for

217
00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:24.360
performing and to have more fun together, like knowing each other better. And

218
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.039
so when we embed the learning zone
the performance zone together, it changes not

219
00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.919
only the performance, not only the
outcomes, which is important, but also

220
00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:39.000
the process. Right that the experience
of living and working is richer because we

221
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.759
are we're learning every day and we're
learning together. So when we think about

222
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.399
purpose, you know, we can
think about the purpose of our work,

223
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.480
like you know, if I work
at a pharmaceutical company that's helping people get

224
00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.519
heal from disease, that's an important
purpose. But also we can think of

225
00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:01.200
purpose of the purpose of growing together, right, purpose of learning together,

226
00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.799
the purpose of the process. That
what we can gain from the way that

227
00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.799
we work, not only in the
outcomes. Mm hmm. That's just beautiful.

228
00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.159
That's I want to see more organizations
do that, especially as the need

229
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.759
for upskilling, constant continually learning is
just so so important. So if we

230
00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:20.399
can create that kind of environment,
much better chance. So let's let our

231
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:22.840
listeners and viewers think about what we've
been saying so far as the sort of

232
00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.039
the foundation here give them a quick
break. I'm your host, doctor e

233
00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:31.120
Lei's Cortez. We've been on your
Eduardo Berssenno. He's a global keynote speaker

234
00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:35.399
and facilitator who guides many of the
world's leading companies in developing cultures of learning

235
00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.360
and high performance. He's the author
of The Performance Paradox, Turning the Power

236
00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:43.240
of mindset into Action. We've been
talking about some of the basics in his

237
00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.320
book, The Foundations after the recording. To get more into the nitty gritty

238
00:15:46.360 --> 00:16:04.840
of the concepts, stay with this
will be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes

239
00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:10.879
is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author,

240
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.559
she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership

241
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:21.639
and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.

242
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.039
To learn more or to invite a
lease to speak to your organization,

243
00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:29.600
please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

244
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:38.840
employees working on purpose. This is
working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes.

245
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.840
To reach our program today or to
open a conversation with Elise, send an

246
00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:49.000
email to Elise A. L Se
at elisecortes dot com. Now back to

247
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:57.600
working on Purpose. Thanks for stating
with us, and welcome back to Working

248
00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.080
on Purpose. I'm your host,
doctor Cortes, as I too, am

249
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.559
dedicated to helping create a world where
people realize their potential at work. They're

250
00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.839
like by inspirational leaders that help them
find and contribute their greatness, and we

251
00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.559
do business that betters the world.
I too, continue to write my own

252
00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:15.119
books. My latest book is called
The Great Revitalization, Activating Meeting and Purpose

253
00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.960
canoratically in liven your business, and
it was written to help leaders understand what

254
00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.640
today's workforce really wants and how to
meet them there and offering and then offers

255
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.559
twenty two best projects to help you
get there. You can learn more about

256
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.440
my books and how to get a
hold of them at a Leicecoortes dot com

257
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.119
or on Amazon if you are just
joining me today. My guest is Eduard

258
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.720
dober Signo. He's the author of
The Performance Paradox Turned into the Power of

259
00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:40.960
Mindset into Action. So I know
you've already mentioned this a little bit here

260
00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.440
atward, but I want to dig
a little bit deeper here, and that

261
00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:48.559
is from the Tournament and the range
chapter here. As you can probably see

262
00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:51.279
from the notes side center I'd like
to try to pull out something from each

263
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:52.559
of your chapters just because I love
to be able to bring them alive.

264
00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:57.160
So what I thought was really interesting
about that particular chapter was you illus you

265
00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:03.880
make mention of Brooks and study that
illustrates practice doesn't make better if we practice

266
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.319
by simply do the things we know
we already know, which you already have

267
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:08.960
said before. But then it goes
on more interestingly, you say, true

268
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:15.000
effective practice looks very different. It
involves folks on specific sub skills trying something

269
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.319
challenging. I'm suring there are feedback
loops to identify opportunities for improvement, making

270
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.440
adjustments, and trying again. And
it's really about paying attention to what you

271
00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.920
haven't mastered yet, grappling with something
we don't yet understand or do. Well.

272
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.119
That's what it is to be in
the learning zone. As I said

273
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.200
to you those notes, I think
that is one of the most powerful distinctions

274
00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:38.000
from common understanding of practicing that I've
ever heard. Well, thank you,

275
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:45.759
I you know it's it's we use
that word practice sometimes in different ways.

276
00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:52.599
Right, Yeah, literally, I'm
going to go practice X right, I'm

277
00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.319
going to practice soccer, and then
we just play soccer. We just we

278
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.720
and that's not effective. It's not
an effect the way to practice. Or

279
00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:06.519
we might say this doctor has been
practicing for ten years, they've been practicing

280
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.319
medicine for ten years. Well,
they really have been performing medicine, it's

281
00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:15.680
what we mean. They've been seeing
patients and treating patients. But like you

282
00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.400
say, practice to improve, you
know, means we need to be deliberate

283
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:23.920
about improvement and we need to identify
what specific subskill am I going to work

284
00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:26.519
on, how am I going to
go about it? It means, you

285
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.680
know, going beyond what I can
do and figuring out what I'm doing wrong,

286
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.880
So getting feedback from what I'm doing, making adjustments, ideally with the

287
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:40.559
guidance of a coach or a teacher. And there's different learning strategies that we

288
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:45.279
can use to practice different skills.
But it means being deliberate about improvement,

289
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.960
not just doing the activity beautiful.
And then we go onto the next chapter

290
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.559
which kind of speaks to what you
were saying there, and that's integrating the

291
00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.839
learning zone and a performance zone.
And I thought that what's interesting about that

292
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.359
chapter there is you say, we
don't learn by doing, learn while doing,

293
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:03.839
and you see, most of us
will find our greatest opportunities not in

294
00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.880
dedicating blocks of times only to the
learning zone, but in changing the way

295
00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:11.640
we work so we regularly leap beyond
the known while getting things done. That

296
00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:15.400
is really powerful, I think.
For I can't even imagine what organizations would

297
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.319
look like if they could, if
more of them create cultures that are injured

298
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:22.160
in that kind of space. Yeah, you know, because if you think

299
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:26.559
about an athlete, you know,
or a violinist or a ballerina, they

300
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:32.079
do a very specific thing. And
what the top, the top in the

301
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:37.880
world block large blocks of time to
dedicate themselves to doing deliberate practice on very

302
00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:41.440
specific sub skills. And by the
way, you know, it's not like

303
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:44.559
ten or twelve hours a day.
It's like, depending on the field,

304
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.880
is between two and five hours a
day for the top world class performers.

305
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.039
And they don't do it for more
than you know, an hour and a

306
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.960
half, sometimes no more than a
half hour at a time because it requires

307
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.880
deep concentration. You need a lot
of rest. But for most of us,

308
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.039
you know, we have a lot
of skills involved in our jobs,

309
00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.279
and we have a lot of things
to do, and so the biggest opportunity

310
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:11.359
for most of us is not to
block long, long blocks of time to

311
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:17.079
work on specific sub skills, although
that can be helpful, but it's more

312
00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:19.599
like about how we work, right, It's about taking on challenges that are

313
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.279
going to that we don't know how
to do, you know, going into

314
00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:29.240
the unknown. There's this outcome that
we're trying to achieve that is ambitious and

315
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.440
we are not sure. We don't
know all the answers that we will need,

316
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:36.519
but we know that we can figure
them out along the way, and

317
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:41.079
we know the process right. We
know whether it's soliciting, feedback or experimenting

318
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:45.440
right, we know that if we
go through these processes, we're going to

319
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.759
figure out the answers along the way
and be able to achieve this ambitious goal.

320
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.759
It's just for me, I find
that incredibly compelling and very exciting and

321
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.720
encouraging and inspiring all those things right
to me, that's so elevating and a

322
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.680
great example of what is low like
an action we have. You have to

323
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.839
share this story that you share in
the book about your keynote Boston consulting.

324
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:10.240
You delivered without power. So that's
the whole stage. I won't give the

325
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:14.680
rest of it away. But I
mean I've been in you know, difficult

326
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:17.920
spots, but not that, So
can you share that story? Yeah,

327
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:22.279
that was pretty challenging, you know. I was because we want to be

328
00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:29.640
engaging in the learning zone proactively or
every day, but sometimes we're forced into

329
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:33.319
it, and that was the situation. So I had I had an important

330
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:40.920
kind of high stakes kind of virtual
keynote that I was doing for Boston Consulting

331
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:45.359
Group, the most senior partners all
over the world, and they are very

332
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.039
busy people. They only came together
once a year for for an event for

333
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:55.240
for their most senior partners, and
so I had we had kind of and

334
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:59.119
I had worked with them in several
offices before and they really liked my work,

335
00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:03.440
so they wanted to introduced it to
other senior partners, and we collaborated

336
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:07.079
in the learning zone to prepare this
session together right to make sure it was

337
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:08.880
going to land, it was going
to be aligned to their strategy. There

338
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:14.079
were two different hosts for their two
sessions for two different time zones, so

339
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:17.680
we practiced with the hosts and so
we spent a good amount of time in

340
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.640
the learning zone in this case,
and then I was ready to get into

341
00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:22.680
the performance Zone, and one of
the sessions was at like one p thirty

342
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.000
in the morning. I was living
in Santa Fe, New Mexico at the

343
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:30.480
time, and I woke up at
around you know, twelve thirty or twelve

344
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.519
fifteen. I woke up a little
bit earlier than my alarm was set for.

345
00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.559
And I this is at midnight,
in the middle of the night,

346
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.039
because it was it was for people
in a different part of the world.

347
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.319
And I walked into my bathroom and
I turned on the lights and nothing happened.

348
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:47.680
And I turned on the other light
and nothing happens. And I look

349
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:51.279
outside the window and the whole neighborhood
is dark. And I realized, Wow,

350
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:53.359
there's no power. What do I
do? I need to do a

351
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:59.839
virtual keynote this in the middle of
COVID And so I started brushing my teeth

352
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.039
and thinking what are my options?
And I thought maybe I could drive into

353
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:07.079
town and try to find some Wi
Fi somewhere, Maybe somebody, you know,

354
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:11.759
there's a restaurant that has a generator
or Starbucks or something. But I

355
00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:17.640
Santa Fe only has eighty four thousand
people, and it doesn't have a lot

356
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.440
of things open at night. And
so you know, I thought that I

357
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:25.400
might I might just kind of be
driving around and not finding a place.

358
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:30.200
And so but then and so I
sent them an email saying, hey,

359
00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:33.720
like I'm without power, I'm trying
to find solutions just to you know,

360
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:37.039
a situation. And then I realized, okay, well maybe you know,

361
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:44.160
if I if I drive the car
to a parking lot that where the place

362
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:45.759
the restaurant might be closed, but
I might be able to access their Wi

363
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.480
Fi and I can kind of light
my face with my car lighting, and

364
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:53.759
okay, that that could possibly work. You know, I might be able

365
00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:56.359
to find a Wi Fi. But
it's going to be awkward, and it's

366
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.160
going to be my face is going
to be relatively dark. And then I

367
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.480
gave me the idea, the idea
of using the car internal lights to light

368
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.839
my face. Gave me the idea
that maybe I could use the car headlights

369
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:12.759
to light myself if I just got
that. I moved my desk outside.

370
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.839
This is why I ended up doing. I moved the desk outside in front

371
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:21.400
of my garage. It was like
a dirt driveway, and I put both

372
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:26.279
of our cars in front of me
with the headlights, uh, just just

373
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.720
lighting me up. I used my
phone as a as a hotspot, you

374
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:34.160
know, which was luckily charged and
I had an external charger, and I

375
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:37.720
didn't know if it was going to
work because I didn't know if if if

376
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.759
the internet was going to be good
enough. This is in Santa Fe where

377
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:44.240
there's like bears and mountain lions.
I didn't know, like in the middle

378
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.839
of the night, if something was
going to happen, like be attracted to

379
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.559
the lights. And then there were
the neighbors too. I didn't know if

380
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.440
somebody was really going to come complain
that I was doing a keynote outside in

381
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:53.680
the middle of the night. So
I was taking some risk, right,

382
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.440
I had to leap into the one
and say, hey, you know,

383
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.079
this may or may not work,
but I don't have another option. My

384
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:04.440
best idea to perform and to do
the job here and to add value is

385
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.839
going to be to take a risk
do something I haven't done before. And

386
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.400
that means that I'm going to be
learning while doing, you know, And

387
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.440
it's not the best I like,
it's not the ideal situation in that case,

388
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:21.160
Like if I if I had like
learned this lesson before, then I

389
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:22.519
wouldn't be needing to take those risks. Right, So now I have,

390
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.079
for example, two internet service providers, so if something like this happened,

391
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.559
you know, I would have more
options and I have like some some kind

392
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.359
of backup power that I could use. But it was a lesson that I

393
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.359
learned and by the way it worked, so like and it worked, and

394
00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:41.400
it also like they loved it right
because they it was a story that exemplified

395
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.720
a growth mindset. It exemplified taking
risk when you need to in order to

396
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.160
get the job done. And it
helped them kind of with their goals of

397
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:52.160
promoting a growth mindset, of promoting
mote more sensible risk taking. And I

398
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.359
told them, you know, it's
like if this doesn't work, then you

399
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:57.200
know it's okay, Like we're going
to be okay, but we're going to

400
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:02.160
put our best foot forward and and
and so sometimes we have to we're forced

401
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:06.279
to leap into into learning while doing, But most of the time we want

402
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:10.960
to choose learning while doing. We
want to be taking risks in reasonable ways

403
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.599
that are going to lead to learning
and higher performance and just be mindful about

404
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:19.200
doing those experiments in a way that
is not ideally you know, we don't

405
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.279
want to take risks in ways that
are going to bring us down, that

406
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.039
are high stakes where that mistakes are
going to hurt people, and so we

407
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:30.200
want to just be mindful about in
what ways do we want to engage in

408
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:32.920
the learning zone when, but just
make sure that we're always doing it.

409
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.440
I think it's such a powerful example
of one you know as a log of

410
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.039
therapists. Of course a traffic and
meaning, but it's it also really is

411
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.480
it really showcases that you know the
power of an activated human spirit, you

412
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:48.440
know, to find a solution and
to know that you and to trust in

413
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.039
yourself that you you know that you
know know. I'm sure your nerves are

414
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:53.920
probably bothering you, but I didn't
hear that you were undone by this.

415
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:57.880
So I'm listen. I'm thinking about
you know, the leaders listening to this.

416
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:00.160
If you have a guy like this
your team or a gal like this

417
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:04.279
and your team, boy, I
hope that you are appreciating them, recognizing

418
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.880
them, and showcasing them as a
fantastic example to help others do the same.

419
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.240
I can imagine somebody else would have
said, well, I guess you

420
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.519
know, there's no power. I'm
not delivering the talk, no options,

421
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.200
You've found all kinds of options.
I just I think it's a it's a

422
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:26.200
fantastic illustration of a growth mindset and
action. Imagine that. Okay, So

423
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:32.319
next you have a whole chapter on
which contains six essential learning zone strategies.

424
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.039
And this is really about developing different
competencies for different learning zone strategies. And

425
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.720
so you're talking about reflecting on various
ways. So could you maybe just share

426
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:45.200
one or two of them that you
just really think maybe make sense for this

427
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:52.400
conversation. Absolutely so. One example
is kind of developing what I call our

428
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.960
air sense, which is our integrated
knowledge and skills. And sometimes in the

429
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.440
era of the Internet and artificial intelligence, we might think we don't need to

430
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:06.119
learn things because we can always search
for the information. But really there's a

431
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:10.119
lot of value to like you do
when you read your books and in other

432
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:14.720
ways, right for us to continue
to build our understanding of the world,

433
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:18.559
or understanding of humans, or understanding
of what we can do as leaders.

434
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.839
If we have that knowledge and that
wisdom inside of us, then we can

435
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.160
call upon it whenever we need it. And and so, but just like

436
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:30.839
when you said that you were reading
books, you weren't just reading books.

437
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:37.559
You're reading books to in a deliberate
ways and using strategies to really put those

438
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:41.599
things into your long term knowledge and
be able to retrieve it when you want

439
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.039
it. And that is not just
reading passively. You know, you are

440
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.480
deliberately building your integrated knowledge and skills, which is which is an important thing

441
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.960
to do in life. M H
spot on. Okay at this, judge,

442
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.920
let's go ahead and grab our last
break. Here. I am your

443
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:00.720
host. Doctor. Early scots were
on the edward Robe Senno. He's a

444
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.759
global keynote speaker and facilitator who guides
many of the world's leading companies and developing

445
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.759
cultures of learning and high performance.
He's the author of The Performance Paradox,

446
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.720
Turning the Power of mindset into Action, which we have been talking about.

447
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:15.039
After break, we're going to learn
a little bit more as to why mistakes

448
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:33.160
are a good thing. Stay with
this will be right back. Doctor Elise

449
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.200
Cortez is a management consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and

450
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:42.839
author, she helps companies visioneer for
greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

451
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:48.839
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate
fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the

452
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.920
workforce. To learn more or to
invite a lease to speak to your organization,

453
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.240
please visit her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

454
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:07.720
your employees working on purpose. This
is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes.

455
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.559
To reach our program today or to
open a conversation with Elise, send

456
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:17.240
an email to a lease a l
I se at eliscortes dot com. Now

457
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:25.599
back to working on purpose. Thanks
for stating with us, and welcome back

458
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:27.480
to working on Purpose. I'm your
host, doctor release Cortes. As I

459
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:30.720
mentioned in the last break, my
last book, The Rate of Vitization is

460
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:34.119
out. What I did for you
is I created a three page assessment.

461
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:37.799
I put it on my website for
you, and it will help you ascertained

462
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.559
extent to which your culture meets the
standards of today's workforce. It's at a

463
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.680
leasecore test dot com and it's on
the tab how what we do to help

464
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.319
If you are just joining us today, my guest, I said, Dad

465
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.160
a little bit pressinno. He is
the author of the Performance Paradox, turning

466
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.680
the power of mindset into action.
And as I mentioned just before the break,

467
00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.720
I think this next bit we're going
to talk about is really really compelling

468
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:05.920
here about mistakes and specifically the neurobiology
that is behind that. So you have

469
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.759
this is in the Unleash in the
Power of Mistakes chapter. But I think

470
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:13.160
it's interesting that you talk about You
know that many of us understand that we

471
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:15.559
can learn from our mistakes, that
they can make us stronger, but you

472
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:20.079
say the reality is even more compelling. You say that even at a biological

473
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.880
level, mistakes are crucial when it
comes to changing our brains and developing our

474
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:27.039
abilities. You go on to talk
about a podcaster that deals with this,

475
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:30.839
Andrew Couperman. But what I thought
was really really interesting here is you go

476
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.799
on to say errors prompt our brain
to sit up and pay attention to something

477
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.440
new is happening here. Since nobody
wants to actively pursue tragedies, and because

478
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:44.920
it's hard to proactively elicit surprises,
the most effective way to drive our own

479
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:50.000
neuroplasticity is to engage in challenging activities
we can't do flawlessly and learn from the

480
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:53.519
errors we make along the way.
Wow, that sounds amazing. Yeah,

481
00:32:53.559 --> 00:33:01.279
you know it's something that I didn't
know how our full mistakes where before when

482
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:05.240
I started reading this book. I
learned it as I was as I was

483
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:09.880
writing the book. But when we
think about the mechanisms that drive neuroplasticity,

484
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:15.880
and neuroplasticity is the change, the
change in the kind of how our neurons

485
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.400
in our brain are connected, and
when when a particular network of neurons fires

486
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.279
together, that that's what creates a
thought. Right, So if we want

487
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:27.880
to become smarter or change the way
we think, we need to change the

488
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:31.440
way our neurons are wired together.
And that's what neuroplasticity is. And the

489
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:37.640
way the main way mechanism that we
have to change that once we are adults

490
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.799
is by making mistakes. Is by
the brain making a prediction that turns out

491
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:46.400
to be wrong. And then there's
the chemicals that make the brain rewire if

492
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:50.279
we stay with it, right,
if we say, if we figure out

493
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:52.839
what what did I do wrong?
What you know? Let me try again

494
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.960
or let me see what might be
right? When we start making progress,

495
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.880
then our brain starts rewiring, right
if we Because we don't learn just from

496
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:05.480
making mistakes. We learn from reflecting
on mistakes and figuring out what kind of

497
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.840
learn from this mistake, And and
that's how we become smarter, and that's

498
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:14.559
that's it's just incredibly powerful. M
I think that could be its own book

499
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:16.559
in and of itself, really really
powerful. I really really jammed on that.

500
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.079
Okay, So then perhaps related this. Another chapter you have is on

501
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:27.000
common misconceptions about learning, and you'll
list several of them. There's two that

502
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:30.719
I want to talk about in particular
for the purposes of this program. The

503
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:35.079
first one is the misconception that you
either have a growth mindset or you don't.

504
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:37.920
What's the actual reality to that.
Yeah, a lot of people kind

505
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:40.920
of learn about growth mindset and get
excited, and then they label themselves as

506
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.360
I'm a growth mindset person, right, and they kind of think of themselves

507
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:51.320
as I'm always in a growth mindset, and that blinds us from from seeing,

508
00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:53.480
you know, abilities that we might
see as fixed, or qualities that

509
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.239
we might see as fixed that we
might say, oh, well, of

510
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:59.280
course that's fixed. Well you know, that's a that's a fixed mindset.

511
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:00.679
If we think it's fixed, it
might be right, it might be wrong.

512
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:07.400
But we need to identify those fixed
mindsets so we all see certain qualities

513
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:12.760
and abilities as fixed. Some of
those assumptions might sometimes be more right.

514
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.320
But most of the time that we
see something as fixed, it turns out

515
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:21.800
to be kind of based on flawed
assumptions, and we're making we're creating a

516
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:25.480
self fulfilling prophecy by thinking that it's
fixed. Then we're not doing what's necessary

517
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:31.440
in order to change and to improve. But also these mindsets are fluid,

518
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:36.239
so sometimes we're often we're just confused
or we're in the middle. We're not

519
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:40.159
sure how we feel about the malleabilities
of our an ability or quality. And

520
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:45.599
these also shift, Like we might
see somebody who is a fantastic performer and

521
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:49.719
they look like a natural because we
haven't seen the process, and that might

522
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:52.199
put us into a fixed mindset thinking, oh, you know, I'm not

523
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.000
capable. You know, I'm not
able to become as good as this person.

524
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:59.360
So in different situations, we might
be more in a fixed mindset or

525
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:01.960
more in a growth I said.
And the more that we can train ourselves

526
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:07.159
to see that to become aware of
what is when am I in a fixed

527
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:09.679
mindset, then we can see what's
happening and then be able to change herself

528
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:13.679
talk to what we want it to
be, so that we can act in

529
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:16.480
the ways that we want to act. That happened to me, by the

530
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.599
way, in reading your book at
AUTEU, so thank you for that.

531
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.119
I have been touting myself as I'm
a growth mindset person, I'm about broth.

532
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.400
But then I was able to identify
there are there are aspects in my

533
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:30.280
life that I that I employ or
rely on a fixed mindset, and just

534
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:36.719
recognizing that just really open something for
me. So wonderful that. Yeah,

535
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:39.119
thank you. Like I said,
every time I tell a lot of my

536
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:42.760
guests, you know, thank you
for embarrassing me in public, because invariably

537
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.079
I read some part of the book
when I'm out public, either I'm the

538
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:47.559
airplane or I'm on the bike the
gym, and I'm like, yeah,

539
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:51.920
that's it, that's exactly right.
People look at me like she's at it

540
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:58.159
again, the weird lady's at it
again. But the other you know,

541
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:02.199
what you remind me at least is
sometimes people think of embarrassing themselves in a

542
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:07.199
different way, which is some people
might think that in saying something like what

543
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:13.280
you said that you know, there's
a part of my life when I when

544
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.880
I'm in a fixed mindset, some
people might feel embarrassed by acknowledging that,

545
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:22.800
right, But that's what we need
to do. In order to develop learning

546
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:24.920
communities. We need to be able
to share with each other what we're learning

547
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:29.360
and our insights and also that you
know, we can all improve and so

548
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.800
that way we can better support each
other and normalize the fact that we all

549
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:36.239
works in progress. Mm hmm.
Thank you for that, Waldo. And

550
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:40.159
you know, and for me in
my case, I never want to apologize

551
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:45.039
by being delighted by learning something.
I will never apologize for that, right

552
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:49.280
yeah. So yeah, so this
has happened on many occasions. People are

553
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.039
like, what are you reading.
I'm like, oh, you got to

554
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:54.079
read this, okay. So the
other misconception about learning that would love for

555
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:58.159
your address, and it talks it
really addresses what we were talking about before

556
00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:01.679
about the mistakes. But the other
misconception in that chapter that I wanted you

557
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:06.960
to address is growth. Mindset is
all about responding to setbacks and mistakes,

558
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:10.840
right, I mean, how we
respond to setback some mistakes is really important.

559
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:14.840
We want to respond by thinking about
what can I learn, what can

560
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:19.199
I change going forward, But we
also want to drive our growth proactively,

561
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:21.920
so that means, you know,
we need to ideally, you know,

562
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:25.360
if somebody asks you, or anybody
what are you working on? What are

563
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.960
you working to improve? We should
all have an answer to that, right,

564
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:32.159
and we should all be mindful of
what that is on a daily basis.

565
00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:37.159
That will that will get us to
much higher levels in our skills and

566
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:42.840
performance if we're always mindful about what
we're working to improve. Yeah. Both

567
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.480
those really heavy. Okay, So
the next part that I want to come

568
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:47.639
to and fro. In my view, this is kind of I think this

569
00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:52.679
is like your your crown prints of
your of your book. It's that growth

570
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:57.400
propeller concept, and so this is
in yours. It's there's a whole chapter

571
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.360
to be dedicated to this. But
I really find that this whole idea,

572
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.880
what you're talking to in that chapter
is to become a master learner and performer,

573
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.599
work on developing your identity, beliefs, purpose beliefs, habits, and

574
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:12.039
community. These alments work together like
a propeller, equipping you to move confidently

575
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.079
towards your boldest ambitions. And the
way that I love how you use models

576
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:20.960
in your book too, that's extremely
effective for me anyway visually. So could

577
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.559
you speak a bit about this growth
propeller. I think it's this concept brings

578
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:29.400
it all all together for me absolutely, and for me I see this as

579
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:36.599
a central model too. Yes,
And the growth propeller is what we can

580
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:39.440
work on in ourselves to really become
the people we want to become and be

581
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:43.519
able to achieve what we want to
achieve. And so it's a propeller with

582
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:46.679
three blades. The three blades one
of them is a beliefs, the other

583
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:51.840
one's habits, and the third one
is community. And then the middle of

584
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:54.800
the propeller, which is the access, has two things in it identity and

585
00:39:54.840 --> 00:40:00.519
purpose. And I think at least
you're an identity researcher my podcast you are,

586
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:07.599
and your podcast is if we're working
on purpose. So I think these

587
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:13.679
are like I feel kinship with you
in in kind of how important identity and

588
00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:17.079
purpose are. So identity and purpose. Sometimes we think of our identity or

589
00:40:17.079 --> 00:40:21.840
our purpose or things that are fixed
right or the things that we find rather

590
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.639
than things that we develop. And
these are all things that we can shape

591
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:30.280
and continue to evolve throughout our lives. And they really drive how we perceive

592
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:35.239
things, how we perceive ourselves,
our behaviors, and so and they give

593
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.559
us energy and they give us direction
for where we're going. And so when

594
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:44.559
we think about identity in particular,
I'll offer that we want to see ourselves

595
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:46.920
as a learner, as a work
in progress, as someone who's always continued

596
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:51.239
to evolve. And there might be
other parts of our identity that shift over

597
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:54.000
time, like you know, I
might be become a mother and that's a

598
00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:57.719
new identity for me. And then
I might become, you know, an

599
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:02.280
executive, and there's a new identity
or a mentor. And so we want

600
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:07.000
kind of our identity to be shifting
throughout life. But the more that we

601
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:09.559
lean into being a learner and always
a work in progress, that that's going

602
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:13.599
to work toward us. And then
you know, your podcast is all about

603
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:16.519
working on purpose, and purpose gives
us direction, it gives us meaning,

604
00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:21.480
it gives us a greater experience of
life. And then in terms of believes,

605
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:24.199
habits, and community, there's a
lot of beliefs like growth mindset is

606
00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:29.360
an example where you know, if
we're in a growth mindset, thinking that

607
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:32.840
abilities can be developed, that has
lots of consequences versus a fixed mindset.

608
00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:37.840
We can think about our beliefs about
transparency, how much I share how transparently

609
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:42.719
I share with others and is that
a strength? Often when we share what

610
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:45.079
we're thinking, what we're feeling,
that helps other people support us, that

611
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:50.840
builds relationships, that helps us both
learn and collaborate together. So habits drive

612
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:53.320
our behavior. So what are our
proactive habits? Are our responsive habits?

613
00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:57.679
And then what kind of community are
we are we developing? Who are the

614
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:00.400
people around us, what do they
value? What what do we talk about?

615
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:05.559
And how do we collaborate together on
a daily basis? And so we

616
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:09.360
when we work on these five components, we're really crafting our lives and crafting

617
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:15.360
ourselves to be the people that we
want to become. Incredibly compelling at LAD

618
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:19.800
I think that that just it's so
tight and cogent the way you put that

619
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:22.440
together, and thus it's very accessible. So I just really thought that was

620
00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:28.440
the crown gem of what you really
created there. If we move on to

621
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:31.239
you later, as a book progresses, you go through leadership, go onto

622
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:35.280
learning organizations, et cetera. And
I definitely want to talk and I aligned

623
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:38.519
with this because I did talk about
this and I think my second leadership book,

624
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:44.519
but you talk about the importance of
ditching performance only evaluation systems. Amen.

625
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.079
Brother, Amen, could you say
a little bit more about why you

626
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:53.639
think that's important to ditch Well.
When companies think about performance management and the

627
00:42:53.679 --> 00:43:01.800
systems to manage performance, often their
only focused on performance and not learning right,

628
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:07.480
and so that gets everybody focused on
only performing. And when we focus

629
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:13.599
only on performing, our performance suffers. That's the performance paradox. And so

630
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.079
in order to elevate our performance and
our results, we have to engage in

631
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:22.360
performing but also engage in learning.
So and we can manage the process so

632
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:24.559
that make sure that people are doing
that. So part of our performance management

633
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:30.239
systems can be where people identify not
only their performance goals what they want to

634
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:32.119
achieve, but also the learning goals. What do they want to learn or

635
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:36.039
improve? How are they going to
go about it? You know who,

636
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:40.280
what resources and people might help them
get there? Looking back, like what

637
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:45.960
did I focus on in the last
period in terms of my learning and did

638
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.840
it work? Did I get better? So that we're keeping each other accountable

639
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:52.559
not only to performing but also to
learning and actual improvement. And me,

640
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:55.800
if we're not improving, then how
do we change what we're doing so that

641
00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:00.159
we do it differently? So we
can you know, stay accountable to improvement

642
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:06.199
and to higher performance the other thing
around those sort of things that I thought

643
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:08.039
was complaining that aligns with that too
for me at DOORAVO, is you talk

644
00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:14.320
you really are not a fan of
forced ranking because it creates a competitive zone

645
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:16.239
versus more of a collaborative learning zone, And I absolutely agree with that.

646
00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:20.960
I think it's also very demoralizing for
people. But can you say a bit

647
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:24.880
more about why that you don't see
that as being providing the value that people

648
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:30.440
think it does. Sure, so, force ranking first comes with an assumption

649
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:35.679
that talent is fixed, right,
is something that you have to find and

650
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:42.039
kind of kind of figure out who
has the talent and who doesn't, and

651
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.280
let's get rid of the people who
don't, rather than focusing on developing talent

652
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:51.679
and the idea that everybody can grow
and everybody can become successful. So that's

653
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:55.559
one problem. The other problem is
that it gets people to compete with each

654
00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:00.599
other inside of the organization. They
start with holding inform for example, uh,

655
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:07.480
and you need people to share information
to both learn and perform and collaborate.

656
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:12.079
And so when you want people to
be in the same team working towards

657
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:15.599
the same purpose and when they're competing
because you have forced rankings, that just

658
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:20.679
creates a lot of problems. Mm
hmm. I absolutely agree with that.

659
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:24.760
Uh and that was the best articulation
of why I don't I don't align with

660
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:27.960
an agree with that that I can
possibly imagine. I'm glad we've got this

661
00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:30.480
on tape. Thank you very much. Okay, so what you have a

662
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:36.119
You have some a chapter here on
hiring for for a growth mindset, which

663
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:37.119
I think is great. We don't
a lot of time to address that,

664
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.960
but I just want to be able
to put forth what you have a whole

665
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:45.199
chapter on some of the questions that
leaders can engage candidates and that will help

666
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:47.880
them understand if they or at least
gear it or could be more interested in

667
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:52.960
learning or versus the fixed mindset.
Could you just say a little bit about,

668
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.079
you know, how would they structure
those questions, how would they start

669
00:45:55.079 --> 00:46:01.280
to discern who they are in front
of Yeah, so we want to take

670
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:07.480
the opportunity to look for people who
have a lot of competence in terms of

671
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:09.280
the technical skills that are needed for
the job, but also a lot of

672
00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:13.880
competence as learners, right, so
that they're they're hitting the ground running at

673
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:17.360
a higher level in their dispositions,
not only in their technical skills, and

674
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:22.239
so we can we can ask things
like, you know, what what have

675
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:23.880
you What did you work on in
the last year, how did you go

676
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:27.599
about it? You know, what
mistakes did you make and what did you

677
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:30.559
learn from those mistakes? Who have
you learned a lot from and how did

678
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:34.119
you learn from them? And what
did you learn from them? What?

679
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:37.039
What do you think is going to
be important for you to work on this

680
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.840
next step in this new role,
and what might be obstacles, what might

681
00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:44.840
be challenges for you? What might
you do in those situations? Sometimes you

682
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:50.199
can do you can you can give
them if you don't want like those specific

683
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.599
direct questions, you could give them
a situation right and then say like,

684
00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:58.199
what would you do in this situation
and think about would they be kind of

685
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.320
looking to prove themselves and to kind
of hide their deficiencies or would they be

686
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:06.199
transparent about what they're struggling with so
that they can learn more from other people.

687
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:09.519
You can ask these questions to reference
checks. You can have them do

688
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:14.599
perform, like you know, projects
and figure out whether they act as learners

689
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:16.960
in those projects. But you yeah, you want to be assessing them.

690
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:22.639
They do. They embody the values
that you have as an organization for everybody

691
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:27.559
to be a learner. What I
really loved about that started my human capital

692
00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:30.559
who are I guess twenty five twenty
seven years ago in recruiting. So if

693
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.840
you start those whole process of creating
a learning organization on the front end of

694
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:37.719
talent acquisition, that just made a
lot of sense to me. So I

695
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:43.559
would like thinking also about your your
employer brand, like sending the message of

696
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:45.559
what you stand for, so that
people are also self selecting, right,

697
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:49.679
and so that the people who are
afraid of feedback stay away, the people

698
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.000
who love feedback, you know,
come toward. You absolutely agree with that.

699
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:55.400
Lado. Here we are. We
managed to go right through this here

700
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:59.039
it goes by so fast I wanted
to. I want to give you a

701
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:00.880
chance to close the cars as you
like, Believer, our listens what you

702
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:04.360
like. But I also want you
to include, if you will, I

703
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:07.880
like what you talk about about this
whole notion of you know, this whole

704
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.159
journey of learning. It's not a
destination, it's about the journey. And

705
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:15.480
there's so much promise in your book. That last chapter especially what would you

706
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:19.400
like to liberal listerners with and say
about thirty seconds, I'll say, you

707
00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:22.400
know, the big idea is if
we focus only on performing, our performance

708
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:25.960
suffers. That's what we tend to
be doing in some aspects of our work

709
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:29.480
and life. And so if we
want to increase performance, we have to

710
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:32.079
also embed learning into our work and
life. And like you say, it

711
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:36.880
doesn't only increase performance, but also
increases the process. And we have big

712
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:42.079
challenges in our society. Sometimes we're
two performance oriented to tackle those challenges.

713
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:45.000
So we have to figure out how
we include the learning zone so that we

714
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:49.119
can tackle these ambitious challenges that we
have in front of us, especially in

715
00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:53.000
today's ever changing, dynamic world.
Eduardo, thank you so much for sharing

716
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:58.000
your beautiful wisdom and your heart with
our working on purpose listeners across the globe.

717
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.400
Thanks for being on the Fun Show. It's great, great to have

718
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:04.679
you. Thank you for having you. Lisa is great listeners and viewers.

719
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:07.280
You'll learn more about Eduardo Presigno,
his keynote or facilitation work, or his

720
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:10.880
new book, The Performance Paradox.
Start by visiting his site. It's Presigno

721
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.239
dot com. Let me spell that
for you. B r i ce n

722
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:20.519
o dot com, Persinno dot com. Last week of missed the live show

723
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:22.039
you Know It's Get to Be recorded
podcast. We were on the air with

724
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:27.559
Sandeep Nath, who is first an
internal wellness coach helping the professionals, senior

725
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:31.960
executives and business owners achieve optimal health, happiness and harmony through his transformative principles

726
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:37.480
of Renewalism. We talked about this
on the show. He is really out

727
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:42.400
to be able to generate the renewalism
movement across the planet. It's pretty pretty

728
00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:45.639
powerful what he's up to. Next
week will be on the air with hortense

729
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:49.519
Le Gentille talking about her new book, The Unlaunched Leader. There to free

730
00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:52.280
your own voice, lead with empathy, and shine your light in the world.

731
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:54.519
She will teach us how to be
much more human, authentic leaders for

732
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:59.480
better business results and to inspire people
to realize their potential in the process.

733
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:01.679
You there, remember that work is
one of the best adventures and means of

734
00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:06.400
realizing their potential and making the impact
we crave. So let's work on Purpose.

735
00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:13.079
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working

736
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:16.280
on Purpose featuring your host, doctor
Elise Cortes, each week on W four

737
00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:22.960
CY. Together, we'll create a
world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires

738
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:27.400
and passion performance and employees are fulfilled
in work that provides the meaning and purpose

739
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.719
they crave. See you there.
Let's work on purpose.