Welcome to Today’s Workplace of the People

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, Doctor Relise Cortez. Welcome back to Working on Purpose program. Great to have you, Thank you for turning it in this week. I'm your host doctor Elise Cortes. I have been hosting the show since February of twenty fifteen, so it is a labor of love and I'm glad to bring it to you.

1:17 If we have not met yet and you don't know me, I'm a management consultant, organizational local therapist, speaker and author. My team and I at Least Cortes and Associates help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by articulating their purpose and building inspirational leaders and cultures activated by meeting and purpose to turn those companies from a flat line EKJ to a vibrant destination workplace. There people are intrinsically motivated to perform with their best, grown to their full potential, and are committed to stay and dynamically deliver on the company's mission. You learn more about us at at Leastcortes dot com. If you're just doing the program now, you can find that we're on with Mike Lee. He's the founder of mind Shift Labs. He is a background working on the court with elite NBA stars such as MVP Stephen Curry and All Star our Jewel Imbit. He's blended this expertise helping players use mindset and focus to shift their performance in an alter competitive environment with mindfulness to level up business performance and personal leadership. Mike is the host of the mind Shift Lab and the author of Untrained and New Rules for the Future of Leadership. How the bold and Driven can elevate engagement when the war for talent and create a culture of belonging, which is what we're talking about today. He joined us today from Los Angeles. Mike, Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thanks for having me on. It's good to be here. Isn't it nice to be on the other side of the mic for just a moment? It is? It is. Well, let me congratulate you on bringing this to life. New Rules for the Future of Leadership just great stuff in it. I want to talk through some of the things that you pull out in that book. Since the show was curated, Mike,

2:50 I just really kind of build on whatever we've talked about before that I think is new and interesting and different. So I thought we could start this conversation since you are a future of leadership key note speaker and write on the topic consultant consultant the topic, Let's start by just comparing and contrasting. How would you describe yesterday's leadership versus today's need or call for leadership. Yeah, I think the old leadership paradigm with the sole focus on share holder profits and KPIs that drive all decision making, is no longer sustainable in our world today. It's no longer sustainable for leaders themselves. Can lead to burnout, to disengagement and mental health challenges. I mean, there's some research that shows that some CEOs experience depression at the rate of forty percent, which is double that of the average population. So, you know, this sole focus on the external being the only goal. You know, we're just seeing in the world today where everything's moving faster than ever, changing faster than ever, this focus on the external is is not sustainable U. And I think the new shift and I wouldn't say it's even a new shift as in like this has shown up in the last year or so. The way I like to describe it as in the past, these were nice to have working for a purpose driven organization. Uh was a it was a nice added bonus. Now it's kind

4:21 of like the prerequisite to compete in the new world of work, and leaders I think today have have you know, it's a challenge and an opportunity. In every challenge, there is an opportunity. With adversity comes opportunity. And I think the opportunity is to really rethink how we are, you know, how we're leading from an individual level and at an organizational level. You know, in your intro, he said business using business as a force for good. I am a big, big, big believer in that, like having a social cause, leveraging your business for a you know, for a social cause, for a to create social impact. I'm a big believer that that is a that's the way forward. Completely agree. We're so aligned, Mike on so many things, so many things. I think it would be so fun to go on the road together. Okay, so you've already talked about this importance of purpose, but I want to bring this home for our listeners and viewers because I find and I talked about it in my latest book, to the Great Revitalization, I don't think people fully understand how much the world was fundamentally and irrevocably changed, not just because of the pandemic, but things that led up to it. And so you talked in your book about the purpose crisis, and you talk about how McKinsey found that nearly two thirds of US based employees surveyed said that the COVID nineteen pandemic caused them to reflect on

5:55 their purpose in life, and that nearly half said that they are reconcerned the kind of work that they're doing because of the pandemic, and that leaders just can't ignore this, especially when when managing gen Z and gen Y completely agree with that, but want to hear more of your perspective. Yeah, I think you know, when the whole world went virtual and there were no more water cooler conversations and golf outings and company events, like, everything was stripped down to just the work, and people really had to, you know, that was all they had, and so I think it forced people to kind of to reflect on what they're actually doing with their eight hours every day or for more, for a lot of people, way more than their eight hours every day. And I think people a lot of people realized that they were just doing the mundane tasks over and over and over and over again. And especially with the younger generations, I think they are they're living in a world where they have way more access to information, there have operate with a much higher level of awareness, and they want to They see the challenges that we face in our world and they want to do something about it. They want to their their careers, their professional lives, and their personal lives to have meaning. Right, And I think, you know, a lot of people are negative about some of the younger generations, and I guess I'll put myself

7:28 in that bucket as well because I'm an older millennial. But I actually love talking to them, and I love a different perspective on the world and the way that they see it. You know, I think sometimes we look at this younger generation and the younger generations and we look at them as entitled. But the truth is, they're just aware of their opportunities. Right. It's not that hard to go on YouTube and watch a bunch of videos and figure out how to make fifty thousand dollars a year, sixty thousand dollars a year out of college, of building a follow on following on social media, or building an Amazon store, or you know, running some sort of affiliate marketing program. It's not that heart. And so you have to create a compelling reason that somebody's going to want to come work for you and infusing your organization with purpose at an organizational level, at at a very very high level, from a from a level of vision, but then also tying that to the individual level is super super important to engage a tract and retain top talent.

8:35 You know, one of the things that I did find really interesting, I wanted to let's go there next about what you say in your book. And this is where you know, my heart goes out, my compassion goes out to leaders. This is this is tough being a leader today. I mean, this is not for the faint of heart. But one of the things that you say in your book is that you know, today's war for talent is not just between companies. Companies aren't just competing against each other for talent. They're competing for what you just said, for the opportunity to for entrepreneurship. And so when and you say, the barrier for people to enter and become entrepreneurs has never been lower. It's more easy now to become an entrepreneur. So why would somebody you know hang out with you to make fifty to seventy thousand dollars a year when they can make that or maybe more doing something of their own creation And I think this is really really important to understand the extent to which a company needs to wake up to this fact that entrepreneurship is is a very viable I want to say, competitor to their offerings. Yeah, it is no question about it. And I think I don't talk about this in the book. And this is not my work. It's it's yeah, it's Dan Pink's. He talks about this in the book Drive about how what do people really want? They want autonomy, they want an option for autonomy, like to do autonomous work. They want an option for mastery, to build a master craft, and they want purpose. Right, that's right, it's Dan Pink right and amp amp okay. Yeah. And so when

10:05 you really look at entrepreneurship, well, entrepreneurship gives people those things and there's no reason that you can't create it within the context of a job. And but you just you know, you have to you have to rethink how you how you approach leadership, right, and if you can, if you can give people those things and give them a compelling you know, the other thing the thing that an organization also uh you know, can't can offer that entrepreneurship cannot is a sense of community, connection, and belong right right, no questions. You can offer those three things autonomy and an opportunity for mastery and an opportunity for purpose, and then combine that with connection and belonging. That's where you can you can attract people into your into your organization, into your into your place of work, versus going out on their own. I think a lot of people leave careers after you know they've been in the workplace for ten fifteen years because of those things as well. People. You know, one thing I talked about, I don't even know. I think, I don't even think I wrote this in the book, but I think I came up with that afterwards as I was reflecting on some promotional content for it.

11:24 And one of the things that I realized that people will come to you for meaningful work and for purpose, but they'll stay for connection and belonging. And I think if you can just keep that top of mind as a leader as you think about your organizational values, right, that's going to take you a long, long life. Completely agree. So, as you were talking, what kind of came to mind for me, Mike, is that a few years ago I had on Marcus Buckingham talking about his book Nine Lives About Work, and one of one of the things that I really took from that book that I think is so so compelling for organizations to really understand at their head around, especially when it comes to not being able to engage their workforce, is that many organizations have been designed, of course to be efficient and effective at the expense and the soul of the very people they depend on to power it. So they're literally these lifeless organizations that you know, people are required to do all these things to go through the emotions, and it's just just sucks the life right out of them. So many organizations are blind to how all of their human capital processes and procedures are doing just that. So, you know, you talk so much about this notion of being able to create these you know, highlight to call them destination workplaces, but where people can feel like they matter, they belong, and they're growing. Yeah, no question about it. I mean I don't talk about this in the book, but like a perfect example is when you are dealing with some sort of issue with a product or a service and you get on the phone with customer service

12:56 and you know that in the heart in their mind, like they want to give you a different option, but they can't, right, and that just creates a ton of friction between with their sense of connection belonging to the organization. Like if you just thy percent of the time, give people the permission to break the rules and do the right thing, to break the system and process and do the right thing right. The amount of fulfillment that comes from being able to be of service from somebody creates creates a lot of loyalty, no doubt, you know, one of the things, as a logo therapist might write, So that really speaks to doctor Victrifrankel's work and existential psychology, but with the tenant being that meaning is our chief concern as humans and that it's also our chief source of motivation. But local therapy also speaks to the point of we are at our best, our most vital when we are we are helping others, We are serving other people. That's who we're our best to your point, yeah, yeah, no question, Yeah, serving that up to people, you know, find a way to get out of the way and find a way to unleash that capacity in people to help and be of service. And now we're cooking with gas, right, So so so many things that can be done in that way. Yeah, And I think the interesting thing is, like, you know, you're bringing up Victor Frankel's work and I'll like bring it over to Maso's hierarchy of needs. When you look at that, when you fulfill the physical needs, right, and then you get to the level of connection and belonging. The interesting thing is the

14:33 connection and belonging is in the middle. But if you go all the way to the top of the pyramid and you're talking about self actualization or you talk about another way you can phrase it is helping people maximize their human potential. Right, if you just focus on that, if you focus on helping each individual maximize their human potential, they can't but help feel a sense of belonging and connection through that process. And so it's it's it's interesting that these these I don't know what the right word is, but these these frameworks, these psychological frameworks, are like are coming into play into the workplace because I think, you know, it's just been pushed front and center because I think you know, the there's options on the table and people are willing to talk about what they need and what they want because they're you know they've been suffering for a long time. Mm hmmm, Yeah. I want to dive more into that because I really like your particular approach in that. But let's grub our first break. I'm your host, doctor Elis Cortes. We are in the air with Mike Lee, who is the founder of Mindshift Laps and he's the host of the mind Shift Lab. We've been talking a bit about some of the initial concepts that are in his book and what's what drove it, why leaders need to be able to learn about it. After the break, we want to cover first how we can actually unleash the intrinsic motivation of people and also the business of purpose the numbers behind it. Stay with this will be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose.

16:18 An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise A. L Se at Elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose. Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor release Cortes, as I too, am dedicated to helping create a world where people realize their potential at work and are led by inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness and we do business that better is the world. I can do it to write my own books, and so one of my latest ones came out in March of twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization.

17:26 How activating meeting and purpose can radically enliven your business. And I wrote it to help leaders understand today's workforce and what they want from work, and then I offer twenty two best practices to help equip them to be able to create that. You can learn more about my books at at least quotes dot com and find them on Amazon if you are just joining us. My guest is Mike Lee. He's the author of new rules for the future of leadership, how the bold and driven can elevate engagement, win the war for talent, and create a culture of belonging. So one of the things I really align and quite enjoy about what you say about leaders and how they can really connect with their people their teams is you talk about how encouraging those letters to uncover what drives someone and therefore you have less you have to actually manage as a leader. I want to hear more about this notion of uncovering what drives someone from your perspective, I think that's very individualized, and that's why it's important for leaders to ask questions right instead of you know, I think one thing that I learned from the basketball world, where I spent a lot of time was that the great coaches don't demand and direct. They actually are the ones that aren't the aren't being the military type leaders. They're the ones that actually develop a relationship, They develop connection, they develop trust, and they ask the right questions so that you can come to the answers on your own and through that process you can take more in uh, more ownership in the

19:00 work that you do. And so I think really just you know, stripping it down, like go back to the time before the first person in your life told you to start being realistic, Like what did you what did you enjoy doing? What filled you up? How did you spend your summer when you didn't have to, when you weren't in school. You know it's a cliche question, but like what would you do if money didn't matter? Right? There's so many questions that you can ask, and I think that's the starting point to helping people develop this intrinsic motivation. You know, one one question I think is awesome to ask is what problem in your life would be?

19:41 What problem if in your life, if you could solve, would make it better? Right. There's a a mentor of mine has used that question to create change at scale within massive organizations. That's that's added millions of dollars to top line revenue, right because they're able to Then, let we talk about using business as a force for good, right, And it doesn't mean you have to go out and start a nonprofit. It might mean you can leverage the resources within your organization to create change at scale, which might and potentially could be way more impact than going out and starting something on your own So I think really starting with questions is crucial mm hmm. And one of one of the questions that you really encouraging leaders to ask is what's your dream?

20:33 And I love how you talk about this in your book and you say because when someone is pulled by a dream, they have more intrinsic motivation and take more own ownership in their work, which drives engagement, of course, and we know what a problem engagement is today. And I love when you go on to say, you know, having a leader who invests in your life, both in and out of business is so rare that it cannot help but drive retention. Amen completely agree with that. Yeah, I think you know, we just we all want to have this innate desire to know that we're seeing, that we're heard, that people feel us right, feel what we're going through, empathize with what we're going through. And I think it just it's such a simple thing that I think goes such a long way.

21:19 Yeah, and you know to I'm going to go here next because I cannot tell you, Mike, the number of times that I'm hearing or I'm seeing a whole book that's written about the need for leaders to be empathetic or human. I'm just blown back by this that it's twenty twenty three and we have to tell our leaders to be empathetic in human. But it seems to be an important thing. And you talk about this in your book too, about the importance of developing empathy as a key and top leadership skill. Can you say a bit more about your perspective on that. Yeah, I think when we understand what people are going through, it helps create a sense of connection. Like you know, lots of times we don't necessarily need other people to solve our problems. We just want them to want them to know that we're struggling, right, that this is not easy for us. And it's the interesting thing is like through that vult you know, when you as an as an employee or as a contributor, feel the feel safe enough to be vulnerable with your leader, right, or your manager, whoever, whoever you're you're reporting to. Right, that sense of vulnerability and the relationship and connection and trust that can be built through that level of vulnerability and knowing that you can make mistakes, you can try new things, you can quote unquote fail, right, it actually frees you up from the stress of the repercussions of making

22:53 mistakes and frees up that that creative ability, right, And so I think when we know that our leaders know what we're going through and they have empathy for what we're going through, it just fosters that sense of connection and belonging. And I think, like one of the things that I've had to learn over the last few years is that your resilience does not have to be found individually or your resilience can be found in the collective. Your resilience can be found in your vulnerability to ask for help. Oh, I have learned that, you know. When I really learned that idea, Mike, is when I got divorced. I realized I realized, oh, I can't do all this by myself. I need help. You get over here. I need your help. And I became really quite good at this actually, So going on to what you were saying about, though, this notion of being vulnerable and what that means being able to talk with your leader, I really appreciate that you also detail in your book that this notion of belonging has become so import and in fact so important that we all know about DEI diversity, equity and inclusion. But what we may not know is now there's a bee behind those letters, and that's belonging. So that it's become so so important to be able to develop this deep sense of belonging in our organizations. But then you go on and you talk about how important it is for people to feel that sense of belonging because they feel aligned with the organization's vision, values and purpose. And again, the only way you can do that is if it's

24:26 very strongly articulated and lived. Yeah, and I think this all starts, all starts from the top down. Exactly what you said. It's lived, right. It's not something that you say, it's not something that you do once in a while, it's that every single day you show up from your heart as a leader, and people can feel that they know, whether it's just a show, whether it's a one time thing or no, this is this is exactly who this person is inside it out, and this is who they are at home, this is who they are at work. And that's exactly what I'm going to get. Somebody who's showing up from their hearts, somebody who's showing up with love every single day. Mm hmm. Yeah.

25:06 And then moving on you know, to to the team. I appreciate this notion of you know, do to feel a sense of belonging to I feel a sense of connection with my team, my team. To imagine this, ladies and gentlemen, imagine that you, as a leader, have created an environment where your people go looking for each other what's special and right, and they appreciate each other, and they noticed when someone's not here. Man, Tommy was not here yesterday. God, we so needed Tommy yesterday. Tommy comes back, Tommy, Are you okay? Are what happened? Are you all right? That we hear so often Mike, and I know you do too. People feel like nobody notices if I'm here, I'm not. But when we can create a team where people feel that connection, they feel wanted and needed and appreciated, that that goes. That's but that the leader has to help create the environment for that to happen. Yeah, no question about it. I think the interesting thing about this is that from my perspective, you know, spending a lot of time in the basketball world is for decades, business leaders have leveraged the sports world for things like leadership, culture, mindset. Except right, and if you ask any coach that it has one championships, that it has been really really successful at the high school, college, pro level, even sixth graders. Right, the coach and the player would probably have a common answer when asked about how did you help Billy be at his best? How did you help Curry become MVP? How did you

26:37 help Sarah become the conference MVP? And the number one? I think the through line if you asked every single one of those coaches, no matter what level, sixth grade all the way to the NBA, both the coach and the player would say, well, I just love them. Yeah, the girl's going to say, I knew that that coach MacArthur loved me. I knew that anything that he was doing he was doing because he thought it would help motivate me, inspire me to be at my best every single day. Right, And that's the one thing that I think that the place that I think people are afraid to go to. But I think you can't. It's not exclusive, right, you can't leave love out of the leadership conversation.

27:23 Increasingly that four letter word has become actually an ally, whereas it used to be such an enemy. But I want to go further on what you just said there about this notion of really for leaders to really help people become the best version of themselves. That takes actually your ability to go looking for what you think they could actually do beyond where they are today, and then leading them to be inspired to go after that. And what's beautiful about that? And I've had my own leaders that have done this for me, that have radically altered and elevated my life in a way that I couldn't without them. I couldn't do what they encouraged me to to do or what they saw me to do. And it's such a gift. And this is where leadership is so powerful, so important, so impactful, and it's work, right.

28:07 It takes real work and love to be able to go looking for someone on that level. I can't tell you how many times when I'm working in an organization, Mike, and I know you've had the same experience where you get somebody gets a new you know, they've inherited some team members and they've been told you know that Mike guy, you know he's really he doesn't really work very hard, you know, he doesn't really you know, he's kind of a mediocre contributor or whatever, and that person actually goes looking for what's special and different about Mike and then and ignore is all these labels he's heard about, negative labels, he heard about Mike and lo and behold, he sees this prize right there waiting to be unleashed and activated, and Mike blows them away. Right, this happened. This is the beauty of great leadership, of leadership that's caring and appreciative and it's actually looking to help someone realize their greatness versus, I don't know, manage them through the process. Thoughts, reactions. There's a lot I could say about that. I think one thing, you know, from a fundamental perspective is to view you know, don't view that person as a challenge or don't view that person as a problem, view it as like a challenge, right, view it as an opportunity.

29:17 And this goes back to what we were talking about right in the beginning, talk about asking questions. And you know, on the first basketball team that I ever coached, there was there was a kid that we had on the team, the seventh grade team. This kid was thirteen years old. He was he was talented, he was long, he was he was fairly skilled and I thought, you know, he could be a really, really good basketball player, you know, even at thirteen years old. But the problem was the first like month to two of practice, I just could not get him to go hard enough in practice. I couldn't get him to work hard enough in practice. And finally we sat down and we had these one on one individual player meetings during about the middle of the season. This kid's name was Paul, and I said to him, Paul, why are you here.

30:03 What are you trying to get out of this experience? And he said to me, I'm going to be a Division one college basketball player. Yeah. And I looked at him and I said, okay, Paul, Then from here on out, I'm going to treat to you as if you are already a Division one college basketball player. And everything that I do, every time I challenge you, every time that I'm hard on you, it's because I'm holding you to the standards of excellence that I know that it's going to take in order for your dreams to come to life. This is not me against you and me being hard on you because because I don't like you. This is me with you on the path to helping you achieve your dreams. And when we had that sixty second conversation, everything changed. The kid went harder, he put more time in after practice and in the off season, and this kid went on to play in three NCAA tournaments, has got a a Division One college scholarship, hit a game winning shot in the in March Madness and the NCAA Tournament, and as an assistant coach for the Atlanta Hawks.

31:04 So like that, you know, And I'm not saying that I'm the reason because of that, but I'm saying that that's an example of the power of just taking a minute to ask a simple question can unlock something inside of somebody that you never thought was possible, or that they never thought was possible. That's so beautiful. I want to share another example, toy, but let's drab our last break here before I do that. I'll respond to that as well. I'm your host, doctor re LEAs Cortest. We're on the air with Mike Lee. He's the founder of mind Shift Labs and the author of Untrained and New Rules for the Future of Leadership. How the bold and driven can elevate engagement when the war for talent and create a culture of belonging.

31:45 We've been talking more about how to engage and really lead our people to their greatness in order to bring out their best and keep them. After the break, we are going to talk more about engagement and get to those purpose debts. Stay wis will be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise A. L Se at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

33:05 Interesting with us and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, Doctor Ely's Cortes. As I mentioned in the first break, I put out my last book, The Great Revitalization, in March of twenty three. But what I also did to a company that is I created an organizational assessment that you can get off my website Gusto dashnow dot com. It's three pages. You can actually assess the extent to which your organization today is meeting the needs of today's workforce if you are just joining us now. My guest is Mike Lee. He's the author of New Rules for the Future of Leadership, how the bold and driven can elevate engagement, whin the war for talent and create a culture of belonging. So, as I mentioned just before we took our break here, Mike, I wanted to share on comment on from that great story you told about your coaching with Paul. I work with an organization and I'm coaching their their leadership team, and one of the women was a little bit younger in her leadership tenure and she wanted to hire an really build a really dynamic team, and so she hired her first person. She was about to hire a second person, and the feedback she got from the team and the person who who was the person's previous boss was like I was saying before, you know, kind of ho home, sort of a mediocre player.

34:15 And so I said to her, I said, I encourage you, well find just you know, ask find out what's underneath that assessment. Why do they think that this person is mediocre, et cetera. And then is there's there something that prevented this person to really bring their best in those environments? Do you have an opportunity to unleash and activate this person in ways they couldn't and didn't, And so against the vote of her team or the rest of her team, she extended the offer to this person and and he's come on and he's just been a rock start and so hungry for this opportunity to go out there and be challenged and grow and bring it and not be labeled by what other people assessed of him as being mediocre or you know, lacking.

35:02 And I think that speaks to really, again the power of a leader, the impact that we can have. And really I think it's you know, it's on you, it's it's it's your responsibilities leader to go looking for ways to be able to activate people. And it's more work, but it's incredibly more rewarding, Yeah, no question about it. And I think like the biggest thing is we have to go ourselves first, where we want our people to go, Yeah, we have to ask ourselves these questions. We have to do the work ourselves and model it. Only then are people going to trust our lead to help take them from where they're at where they want to be. Just gets me every time. Okay, So well, remember what was the show where they where they say, let's do the numbers.

35:46 Anyway, so let's do that. Let's do the purpose numbers. I think that and you and I are again are very very aligned on this sort of thing. But I want to bring this home for our listeners and viewers so they really understand the power of purpose. Purpose today gets so whitewashed. I don't want to hear again, tires on purpose, pancakes on purpose. I don't want to hear that. That's not what we're talking about here. And that was an interesting face you just made. No. So one of the things, the first stat that I want you to speak to that you write about in your book is you say ninety percent of global employees in purpose driven companies are engaged compared to twenty one percent of the global workforce who are otherwise engaged in the normal rate. That is a huge difference. Can you speak to that a little. Yeah, it's massive, right, it's it's kind of it's shocking to when you go into the research and there's you know, there's a ton of research that backs a lot of this up. And I think it just it just speaks to the power of all the things that we're talking about, right, we're talking about all these things helping the individuals uncover their purpose really you know, building this sense of connection and trust and help people, you know, uncover what drives them individually. Right, these all connect back to the sense of purpose. And it's like, we can talk about it in theory all day long, but these stats back up what we're talking about. Mm hmmm. I want to add to that as well, Mike, that you know, this whole notion of well, how do you

37:17 actually do purpose an organization? And again, it's not, as we said before, it's not just a statement on the wall that says this is the purpose of this organization and why we exist. It's about living it. But then it's also about being able to recognize and reward and thank employees that are living the purpose of the organization, that are exemplifying it so that it's baked into the organization and they understand how their individual role is contributing to that organization to realize and live its purpose and realize its mission. And again that takes more to communicate that, to recognize that in a way that's meaningful to that individual is the opportunity. Yeah, I think we get what we reward, right. I think it's it's it's easy to focus on the negative. But if you know, you obviously like are very well verth in psychology, right, and you know we're just we have we get what we focus on.

38:13 And if we focus on the behaviors and the things that people are doing well and we reward that, we're going to get more of it. Right, It's so beautiful. So if this number doesn't actually get your attention, ladies and gentlemen, I really don't know what's going to do it for. When it comes to the purpose space, So Mike writes in his book, and I've seen similar stats, purpose driven companies have been shown to outperform in the market fifteen to one, one, five to one. Yeah, I believe that is research from Jim Collins book and the name I'm blanking on the name right now, but his first one, they came home, not good, not good to great, not that one, right, yeah good, yeah, yeah. And so of course you know I talked to people too.

38:57 You know where investors are looking for purpose led organizations precisely because of this reason. And I've had a very interesting guest on several years ago who was actually create helping to consult with companies on creating compensate compensation systems around how to live that company's purpose. So in creating really a company of owners around the organization's purpose. So really, if you will, financializing purpose into an organization just really quite fascinating work. I would love to learn more about that. That's I've never heard of that. Oh I'm happy. Let me let's let's talk about that offline and not remind me to connect with you too. They're really amazing work that they're doing. Okay. So then the other stet that I wanted you to speak to, which is also really really compelling today, you say, purpose driven leaders have employees who are seventy percent more satisfied, fifty six percent more engaged, and one hundred percent more likely to stay with the organization. Also compelling. Yeah, that's from Harvard Business Reviews. So we're not making these stats up, right, right, right. I mean that's that's incredibly so you know, this purpose stuff works. And again it's I understand that it can sound a little bit abstract and conceptual, which is why I do the work that I do, but it's the numbers are so compelling.

40:22 Yeah, and again, like it doesn't mean that you have to go out and start a nonprofit or go out and and you know, solve the cancer crisis in the world. Right, It's it's when it comes down to it, it's really creating intention in each moment, right, how beautiful tension into each moment that we have, right and when we can do that, when we can stack those moments of intention, that creates a deeper sense of fulfillment. Mm hmm. That's so great. I want to come into that. And then I also want to I want to say for our listeners and viewers who might have also been excited about what I just said about financializing. The name of the compan and he is called Fortuna Advisors. Fortuna Advisors anyways, in case you want to check them out. They're they're pretty amazing.

41:07 So I love what you said, creating those you know, those intentional moments or intentional moments of connection. I had on Bibokolandra on my show some time ago, and she really talks about this concept of job purposing and what she really means is or social purposing. She uses both both phrases. What that really speaks to is is organizations that have have the capacity or of created environment where people are enabled or encouraged to do whatever it takes in their work to be able to get that feeling like I'm doing something that matters. And just the quick example of that that she gives that helps bring it home. She talks about how she found this gentleman who is a full time parking attendant.

41:49 His job is to park cars all day and one of the things this guy does to be able to work in some social purpose for himself is while his customers are away doing whatever they're doing, he goes around and he measures the tread on their tires so when they come back, he can report and say, did you know that you are dreadfully low? You're about to have a blowout here if you don't do something about this. And he shares this back, or he says, hey, you're in a really good jape with your tread kind of thing, and you know these people are just dazzled by this, Like I am a kid that I'm going to go pick up from daycare. You could have just who knows what could have happened on the freeway. So he goes home every night feeling like he's done something of service that matters. He snuck it in in his job. Well, can you imagine you know that the side ripple benefit of that of people that are parking in that garage versus somebody over here who is grumbling about it or just taking your money without saying anything. So we have the capacity to work this stuff in all over the place, this purpose stuff. Yeah, exactly. That's a great example, isn't it though? And it's available to any of us anywhere.

42:52 Right, Okay, So now I want to get to You have something in your book to that I thought was really really interesting. You talk about this notion of impermanence, especially as it relates to our existence into leadership. So you say, impermanence is a fundamental truth of our existence. So the question is not what will change, The question is who will I become? And you say, high performing leaders know that the rate of internal growth must meet or exceed the rate of external change. Wow, that's a lot to be able to walk around with me present too. Yeah, I think hopefully I can sum it up here and make it a little more. Maybe it's a little through esoteric in the book, but really, you know, if you really get objective and you look at it, you see that everything is constantly changing around us all the time. Nothing's the same as it was a week ago, a month ago, a year ago, certainly not ten years ago, right, And if you also look at it objectively, you see that everything is changing faster than ever. Social media has changed more in the last you know, three years than it has in the last Right. It's just everything is changing faster, and so that's not going to stop. Technology is not going to slow down. AI is not going anywhere. Disruption is not going to slow down. And the way that we can respond to that is really creating an internal shift, right, an internal shift and how we respond to the world, so that we can be the ones creating disruption instead of

44:24 responding to the disruption or reacting to the disruption and the change. Right, you know, the part of it is that, but then part of it is also like being able to being able to respond to the things that show up in our lives, like you know, an Amazon book not getting published on the time right, be able to show up to these things with a sense of being centered and grounded while chaos and disruptions surround us, because that's when we can lead and live in alignment with our with our vision and our values. I want to also, this is not in all what you said, but I want to put that out there as well for our listeners and viewers. In this phrase, I think it should be eradicated from the planet, especially in conjunction with this idea that you're just putting forth here, and that is that's the way we've always done it, That's how we do it here. It's the death sentence. It's the death sentence. Stop saying that stuff, please, ladies and gentlemen. All right, So we've come close to the end of our program here, Mike, I want to give you the chance to, you know, really share any other points that you didn't get a chance to talk about here. We've got just a couple of minutes for you to do that. But in other words, what would you like to leave our listeners with that we haven't already spoken about, that you think is important to impart. Yeah, I think you know, a big theme throughout the conversation has been leadership, right, And there's I'll leave people with three questions that they can reflect on. You know, if we want to

45:58 go from where we're at to where we want to yet as a leader, we have to be objective about where we stand in the first place, right, And one way to do that is to spend time reflecting on on where we're at in a from a very still grounded place, right. And so there's three questions. There's there's multiple questions that you can ask, but I'll just leave everybody with three questions that they can reflect on as as we close that our session. And the first question, is am I being the spouse or the or the partner that I would want in a relationship? Mhm, am I being that person? The second question is am I being the parent that I would have wanted as a kid. That's that's a insanely tough question.

46:47 And I do not have kids, so I'm glad I do not have to answer that, right, am I being the being the parent that I would have wanted as a kid? And the third question is am I being the leader? Or am I being the boss that I would have wanted to work for. Mm hmm. Right. They're super simple questions, but they can really help you get to clarity as to how you're showing up and create awareness as to how you're showing up. Because we can't change we we're not aware of right. And you know, one thing we didn't we didn't get into today that I'm a big believer in is mindfulness. And you know, in order to in order to become to use the skill of mindfulness to create change, right, right, the skill of of a of awareness. Right, we have to get to this place of objectivity to see where we're actually at in the first place, see how people view us in the first place.

47:52 Right? And So am I being the parent that I would have wanted as a kid? Am I being the spouse or partner that i'd want? And really relationship? And am I being the leader that I would want to work for? Those are three things to reflect on as we go into gat the Thanksgiving. What a beautiful way to close, Mike. I'm really happy to know you. Thank you for the book that you put out in the world. I'm glad to be connected with you and learn from you. Thank you very much. For sharing with your wisdom and your passion with our listeners and viewers. Thanks for being on working on Purpose. Thanks for having me on, listeners and viewers. If you'll learn more about Mike Lee, the work he and his team do at mind shift Labs, or his books, you can just start by going to mindshiftlabs dot com mindshift labs dot com.

48:38 Last week, if you missed the live show, you can always catch it be recorded podcast. We were on the air with Ed Hess talking about his latest book, which is number fifteen for him, called Own Your Work Journey, The Path to Meaningful Work and Happiness in the Age of Smart Technology and radical Change. He covered some pretty sobering research about just how much learning and growings necessary in all of us to remain relevant, working, and enjoying our careers. It was pretty pretty phenomenal the research that he cited. While we're listening to next week, we'll be on the air with Susan Ford Collins talking about her book Blur Clear The Way Ahead, where she teaches us some powerful tools to deal with burnout and overwhelm and get to strength and resiliency. See you there. Remember that work is one of our best adventures and means of realizing our potential and making the impact we crave. So let's work on Purpose.

49:28 We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W four C. Why. Together, We'll create a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.