Sept. 10, 2024

The New Imperative: Embracing a Continuous Cycle of Discovery to Optimize Your Organization

The New Imperative: Embracing a Continuous Cycle of Discovery to Optimize Your Organization

Cultural change initiatives in companies fail 85 percent of the time. But leaders can beat the odds, even turning around an entire company such as CEO Satya Nadella did at Microsoft. By nurturing a “learning organization” and embracing the discovery...

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Cultural change initiatives in companies fail 85 percent of the time. But leaders can beat the odds, even turning around an entire company such as CEO Satya Nadella did at Microsoft. By nurturing a “learning organization” and embracing the discovery process, leaders and their teams can take the path that goes beyond familiar change management practices. Welcome to today’s new imperative: Stewarding a continuous cycle of discovery from which to operate and take your organization to new heights.

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has

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been brought to you with passionate price since February of

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twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning again this week. Great to

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have you. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. If we've

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not met before and you don't know me, I'm an

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organizational psychologist and logo therapist, speaker and author, and my

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team and I at gusto Now help companies to enlive,

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and fortify their operations by building a high performance, invigorated

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culture and leadership activated by meaning and purpose our missions

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to help our clients create a destination workplace where people

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flock to join, are intrinsically motivated to perform with their best,

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can grow into the floor potential, and are committed to

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stay in dynamic to deliver on the company's mission, which

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translates to higher profits for you.

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You can learn more about us.

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On how we can work together at gustodeshnow dot com

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and my personal site Eliscortes dot com. Getting into today's

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program we have with us today. Karen Goldenbiddle an organizational ethnographer, educator,

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and sought after voice on discovery, transformation and navigating change.

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She's the author of The Untapped Power of Discovery, How

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to Create Change. It inspires a better future, which we'll

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be talking about today. She jos you today from Atlanta, Georgia. Karen,

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A hearty welcome to Working on Purpose.

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Thank you, thank you for your invitation.

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Look forward to this absolutely.

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As you know from my notes, my very very thorough notes,

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I quite enjoyed.

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Your book and got a lot out of it.

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You know, reading my guest's books cover to cover, Karen,

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is really part of my research process that I use

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to continue researching my own books, and of course it

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goes into my speaking as I'm out and about, so

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your word continues to travel through me as well. And

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I was amazed, Karen, you have literally just stumbled or

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discovered an area vastly underappreciated before, which seems really from

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the outsets quite simple, and that's discovery. How did you

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find yourself into this?

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Well, I have long studied change, and I do it

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as an ethnographer, organizational ethnographer, so I go into organizations

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to learn about them. So my dissertation, for example, was

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a year long study of a fortune two hundred corporation.

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So and I've done a series of those over time,

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and I kept all the statistics about change. Seventy percent failed,

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eighty five percent. You know, various numbers over the years

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of cultural change failed and I saw that as well,

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and in fact, numerous things were offered for kind of

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explanations to it, you know, lack of leadership, support, resource constraints,

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no employee gauge in. And I was seeing in my

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studies well intentioned not problematic change initiatives, but well intentioned

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initiatives go awry, that they too would fail or fail

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to deliver the expect with the expectation that was set

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in advance. And I really got puzzled. I was it

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was why. I mean, these were managers who cared about

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implementing change in a way that would bring employees and

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so forth. So for a couple of years it was

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a puzzle for me, and I struggled with it, frankly,

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trying to teach about it. You know, how could I

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do this when I knew that many of the well

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intentioned were not there? So what I did was start

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looking around. I thought, well, I'll flip the question. You know,

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most people talk about statistics of failure. I'm going to

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look at the statistics of success try to find those,

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if you might call it sampling on the deependent variable.

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I was purposely doing that, so I wanted to get

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a cadre of organizations where the change was working, and

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so I sent the word out and one came. I

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heard about one medium sized healthcare organization. It's in the book,

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Delta Care, and I decided to reach out got involved

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with them, and what I was seeing was amazing. They

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didn't necessarily use the word discovery. They were trying to

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create a model of care that had future relevance for

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their patients. So they were thinking ten fifteen years out,

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and they really had a good reputation for delivering care well,

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and they wanted to continue and sustain that over in

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the future given the future relevance of this, and so

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they did. I will go into that with questions for you,

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but the key here is really that they it was

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a collective effort, and as I watched them work and

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engage difficulties, engage the unexpected, deal with surprise in different

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ways than I had seen before, they helped me discover

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the power of discovery. Frankly, that's really how it happened.

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And then I wrote it up for an academic journal.

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I really wanted to tighten my analyses, wrote it up,

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and then started searching. In twenty nineteen for any cases

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I could find, and there are dozens in the book,

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and COVID also was part of that whole time of trying,

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and so there are dozens of the book and that's

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really how it started. Maybe it helped me, and it's brilliant.

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So two things to that, Karen.

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One is the way you're describing going after you know,

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the non failure cases and what's good and right in

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organizations is really also what positive psychology is about. And

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that's one of the things that I was built in, right,

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you know, let's look at what's good and working well

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in people and not what's wrong with people.

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And so that's so I'm linked with positive organizational scholarship. Okay,

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simply it had just started prior to me finding.

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This, okay.

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And then the other thing is how delightful to just

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really go in there and just put your finger on

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the pulse of this organization. And as you know, I

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do want to talk with you later in the program

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about Delta Care because I think it's really fascinating what

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they did and I'm really really intrigued that you are

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an organizational ethnographer. I think that says so much and

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really lends something to what you have created and brought

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forth that frankly is I found so refreshing and effective

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and powerful. Karen. So I'm really glad that you're on

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the program and I get to have you on my

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on my on my program with my listeners and viewers.

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Very welcome the stories we're compelling, they are and we're

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going to We're going to hit several of them, as

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you know. So so first I want to situate and

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it's just really powerful and really adds an opening for us.

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Is you talk about how many people have a constrained

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view of discovery. They think of it as not necessarily

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for them.

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So it's I think probably the other thing that I

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as I worked the case and around discovery, I saw

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that the bulk of the discussion about discovery was as

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an object, the what and end result, and that really

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by thinking of it that way, it does a number

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of negative things. Number one is it totally doesn't tap

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the creative power that does discovery as a process has

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so as as it unfold over time, and by focusing

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on the what, not the how, it's just limiting. As

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I mentioned, we really believe that we don't have the

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talent of discovery it's relegated to the talented few, maybe scientists, artists,

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So it doesn't it doesn't tap into the notion of

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discovery that anyone can and we can develop this later.

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Anyone can cultivate the practice of discovery with this. So uh,

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that can do discovery. People, the designers, the scientists, the researchers,

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the new product developers, you know, those that are designated

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in organizations by role or function as being creative is

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only a sliver of the creativity in organizations, and that's

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totally lost when discovery is thought of as an object,

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not as a process that unfolds over time in our

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even in our everyday actions.

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Yes, and therefore we miss all of the potentials for

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human growth and positive changes you write out. I just

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thought that was such an important point. So it's for

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all of us, this discovery process, which really really delights me.

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So many people say things like I'm not creative, I

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can't possibly do this kind of workly, right, And we're

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not talking about that, And so you go on to say,

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the solution here is to embrace the process of discovery.

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Yeah, I really think of it as an inventive process.

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It helps us generate a hause insight, new perspectives, and

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new understanding that are essential and fueling change, and we

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really derail that too often.

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For sure.

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I want to say that as a discovery process, what

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I've come to see really even since writing the book,

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is that discovery is an inventive process, and organizations are

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also filled with evaluative processes, production, planning, performance, appraisal, those

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things that keep the organization running. Kind of thing systematic

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and organizations need both the inventive and evaluative processes. But

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because of pressures for stability or returns or a number

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of things, the whole notion of inventive processes has been

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hidden on the discoveries lost, and it's relegated to, as

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I mentioned, to these certain roles. Even the teaching of

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change in as an MBA. I've taught many MBA classes,

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and it really most of our teaching doesn't talk about

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the inventive part of change at all. It's more about

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control and moving through the steps of change and not

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weaving through. I'm really not talking another model of change.

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I'm talking about a process that weaves through any kind

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of change model that you might have, that opens it

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up to be able to discover new ideas.

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And we're going to dig more into that towards the

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end into the program, because I just think it's so

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important to contrast what people think of as the traditional

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change management process. And I've been part of those two

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organizations and they include a lot of things like communication, timelines,

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power points, we're documents explaining the change it doesn't and

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your approach is so much more fresh, and I just

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we'll get to that a little bit later to really

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ferret that out, but I wanted to at least surface

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that the process of discovery is something to be embraced

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by everyone and that we all grow and learn and

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improve because of that process. And then the next thing

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I wanted to get to Karen, this is really really

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really critical here in your book that I really thought

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was important to call out is you talk about how

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people can work together using three motors. I love that

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three motors to address necessary belief change to bring out

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entirely new results. So let's talk about each of the

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three motors, Okay.

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And what I want to say is, so that's the

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idea that they helped me discover. These three motors together

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really help cultivate the practice of the discovery you're doing

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discovery as you engage these motors, and what they help

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do is drive belief change. So the willingness to challenge

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and change potentially change one's beliefs that are found ill

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fitting or maybe found in error as you engage things

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during change is the single most important thing for developing discovery.

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So I'll take a look at the first one. When

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we embrace surprise, So it's surprise, it's kind of that's curious,

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or uh, something's not right. That's how we tell that

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there's a surprise. It's something unexpected. And if you think

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about all the directives these days for leaders to leverage

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the unexpected, this is it, right, the unexpected event. We

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did not expect it to happen, and expectations really as

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a habit are there are everyday beliefs like what we

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expect to have happen, the kinds of beliefs that I'm

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talking about. So those are really critical because if we

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dismiss surprise, and we do, we we put it over here,

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we derail it. We say, oh no, surprise management.

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We rationalize it, all that kind of stuff.

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Right right, then we derail discovery. But surprise is important

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because it ignites discovery. So that's its role as a motor.

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Yes.

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The second one is when you did you have questions

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or you want to.

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No, no, keep going, keep going. Yeah, it's great.

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When you walk into this realm of doubt of not knowing,

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a genuine doubt, and we that's it can be uncomfortable

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and occasionally and it can be scary in ways because

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we're taught as professionals to know, we're not taught how

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to not know, how to be comfortable without with with

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not knowing and moving through that. And so it's it's

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letting go of what is known for us. And we're

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going to see some examples in every single story in

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the book, there's a letting go. So every single story

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has these three motors in them and also some various

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iterations with them. But that's one. So the letting go.

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And you know, when you think about that, for leaders,

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what you're engaging a process when you're opening up to

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discovery that has somewhat of an unknown outcome for it, Right,

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you're letting go of the control that we would have

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during change. And to be able to do that in

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a way trusting that it is not a random process.

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It's a way to engage, but it's certainly different than

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what traditionally we have done. And then launching to new

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ways really says really expansively explore new possibilities. As we

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go through surprise and doubt, we will start to question, oh,

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I thought this, but maybe it's this, and now I'm

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seeing in this experience that it's not at all like

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we had imagined. So we're going to adjust our beliefs,

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and those beliefs and new perspectives open up new ways

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of seeing, new possibilities for ways to deliver change elf

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the change itself as well.

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I think the surprise in launching new ways is pretty

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pretty obvious for people. Let's talk a bit more about

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how we recognize that. What do you mean by Genuine'll

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give us some examples of what would be How would

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we show up in genuine doubt?

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Yeah, and so doubt is that, you know, a key

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marker of doubt is questioning. So with surprise, we're kind

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of taken aback, and then do we say it's gone

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or do we lean in and try to explore it

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with questions? And so the whole notion is to question

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what we don't know, rather than to affirm what.

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We see very good addition. Okay, that's so helpful. Very

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good addition. Okay, wonderful.

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Okay.

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On that note, let's grab our first break. Karen goes

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by so fast. I'm your host, doctor Early. I'm your host,

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Doctor Elise Cortez. We were on the air with Karen Goldenbiddle,

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an organizational ethnographer, educator, and a sout after voice on discovery,

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transformation and navigating change.

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We've been getting into.

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The process of where her fascination with discovery came from

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and some of the promise of what can happen when

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we actually embrace it in organizations. Stay with us, We'll

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be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

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visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

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inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

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and commitment within the workforce. To learn more, or to

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invite at least to speak to your organization, please visit

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her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to

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get your employees working on purpose. This is working on

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purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

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or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email

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to a lease Alisee at Elisecortes dot com. Now back

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to Working on Purpose.

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Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to Working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes. As I

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also am dedicated to help them create a world where

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people realize their potential at work, are led by inspirational

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leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness, and

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we do business at Better's the World. I continue to

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research and write my own books. So my last book

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came out in March of twenty twenty three. It's called

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The Great Revitalization, How activating meaning and purpose can radically

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and liven your business. And what I did for you

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is I really helped you lay out what is today's

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scarning workforce want from their employers, and then I offered

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twenty two best projects to help you fold that into

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your culture, to help to supply that for them. So,

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if you're now just joining us, my guest is Karen

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Golden Biddle of the Untapped power of discovery, How to

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create change It inspires a better future, which we're talking

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about today. So now we want to get into some

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of those stories that we queued up and kind of

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teased our listeners and viewers with, and the first one

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I want to start with. I was just so intrigued

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00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:30.440
with all the stories, Karen. They're just so well written

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that describe the power of when we embrace discovery and

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00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:37.039
what happens when we don't. So let's start with the

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play Pump example.

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If you could just situate.

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What they were trying, the problem they were trying to address,

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what they did to address it, and then where things

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kind of went awry.

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Right, So it's an example of where it did go awry,

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discovery was not embraced. There is a wake up call

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toward the end of it where they do embrace discovery,

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where the foundation to embraces it, but it really the

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product and the project itself failed. So we have Ronnie

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00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.440
Steiver and Trevor Field. I'll just say Ronnie is the

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00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:13.279
inventor of something called play Pump and Trevor Field is

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a marketer. They both experienced and this is key for this.

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They both experienced or witnessed African villagers that the difficulties

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they faced in getting clean water. So this is all

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about creating a technology that would help villagers in very

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remote areas in Africa gain be able to get clean

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water without walking miles a number of hardships that they

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both witnessed in this so Steiver created it. It's a

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merry go round. You can see this online, a Merry

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Garne pumping device, so literally a merry ground that's connected

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to a well head that so it's a storage tank

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it goes in so that on demand, once that's filled,

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the villagers can get gravity fed clean water. And so

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as the children play on the merry around, it pumps

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the water. So that's the notion of play pump. That's

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that's where the play pumpkin.

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And it's just delightful. It's delightfully brilliant.

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Accept it stopped there, so but it's just I really

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want to celebrate what they did from the out from

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the outgo.

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Yes, the technology itself was very interesting, very intriguing.

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Yes, they they honed it a little bit, but that

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it was like they it really they thought it was

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the best solution uh to accessing clean water that had

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ever happened, and so did the funders.

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The number of funders US government was involved in it.

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The number started to donate once they saw the early

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success for water deprived villages in particular, so lots of

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positive press and there was a partnership that was found

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with the Foundation and the government to provide to say

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to this play pump, so it's roundabout Outdoors was the

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company that was created to implement install these play pumps

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to provide clean water for ten million people in Sub Sahara,

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Africa by twenty ten. This was two thousand and eight

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when they did this, so by twenty ten they had

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a clear mandate by the funders to get clean water

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for ten million people. But difficulties emerged late two thousand

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and seven two thousand and eight, all of a sudden,

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the pump stopped working in villages and where they never

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thought to look at the villages where there were few children,

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so the play pumps were installed anyway and without thinking

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to look at that, and there were no children to

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pump the water with a merry ground, so it went unused.

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The pump stopped. There were reports out there that the

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the technology itself was very innovative and very robust, but

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they were calling out the technology driven very single minded

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installation of these pumps without regard for community inputs, so

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communities were not asked in advance, no sense of the

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user experience from in advance to problem solved to fine

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tune what was going on, even to check the geographic

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land to make sure that the amount of water could

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be tapped out. So there were serious issues about this.

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Still Field believed that they had everything to achieve the target,

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and again the target was twenty ten, so he continued installation.

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Slowly the project started unraveling. The funders, the collaborative group

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got back involved, and with such hope and promise that

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00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:05.640
the play Pump offered, it ended. The project was stopped

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00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:09.480
five years after it began. And there are a lot

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00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.720
of explanations for why this happened. As I dugged into

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00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.680
it closer. It's this notion. It's a wonderful case for

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us to illustrate when we see how often do we

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implement the best practice or the software is big, like

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we just pop it into the organization as the best

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solution for our time. This fits that problem without regard

397
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for any kind of understanding about the context of im

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implementation or what the continuous notion of finding out about

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that software or new practice or whatever as we go

400
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along so this whole notion of continuous discovering even during

401
00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:55.400
implementation and beyond change was totally lost. They thought it

402
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was perfect, it would implement and it would work. So

403
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that's that's what happened.

404
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:04.880
Thank you for explaining that. It's just on the one hand,

405
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:09.039
it was such a beautiful, creative solution, but then you

406
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know this sticking, the rigidity of sticking with the plan

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without really understanding how it was being accepted. What were

408
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the obstacles, et cetera. That's what I really wanted to illustrate.

409
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And you did that view right, and how often we

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stay the course.

411
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Right right, right right?

412
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.039
And they had and they had funders to satisfy all

413
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these things. That totally understand. And yet when we get

414
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:33.440
into one of the other, uh, the MRI I, that

415
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:35.519
was a really interesting We'll get to that later, but

416
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:38.200
so many great stories. So let's go on to the

417
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Microsoft story.

418
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Here, right.

419
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This is such a critical thing that I really really

420
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:46.559
admire about the CEO, Sacha Nadella.

421
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:48.880
You know, you talk about how you know.

422
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:51.319
He when he when he got when he when he

423
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:54.240
got in, he really understood that he that we were

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operating as if the formula had been figured out, we

425
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know what we're doing.

426
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:58.440
We're baked.

427
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:02.599
It's all good, and he really understood that it was

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00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:05.200
necessary to discover a new formula. So would you just

429
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.359
say a little bit about just kind of what was

430
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:11.160
he up against? How did he go about help starting

431
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.400
to make the cultural shift that he did. I know,

432
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.920
we could spend a whole hour.

433
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:19.920
We could. I love this, I mean, and he's been

434
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:22.799
there ten years now, so that was twenty fourteen when

435
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.960
he made that comment about what we need to do

436
00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:30.039
is discover a new formula, not just optimize the old

437
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:33.160
formula with this, and so that began a cultural shift,

438
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:37.039
a cultural change, I think again, it's one where there

439
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.640
was a really important vision purpose around what they were

440
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:44.559
trying to do, and it allowed they use the word

441
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.799
growth mindset, which is a very discovery oriented term focus

442
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:54.440
as well. But this discovery helped Microsoft let go of

443
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beliefs that drove the formula optimization, and some of those

444
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:05.279
beliefs were in hierarchy in a way that was segmented

445
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the silo's notion that very much silos competition internally, not

446
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:14.759
just externally, really trying to get ahead at the expense

447
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:19.200
of others. There was a number of things, even teams

448
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:25.119
later SATA found we're not sharing code with each other, right,

449
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.400
So that's what it was like the old formula around this,

450
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:30.920
and then the take on they moved from a know

451
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:34.759
it all culture what they called it and still do,

452
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.920
to a learn it all culture. So no longer are

453
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.200
they know it alls, but they are learning along the

454
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:43.920
way and so that to me is a fundamental shift

455
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:47.319
and earthshaking shift, and you can see it in their

456
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:53.200
business obviously. So that's really what There's a lot to

457
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.559
talk about there. I mean, HR came in a number

458
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:57.960
of things are all aligned with this.

459
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:01.640
But what I really wanted to illustrate, which you just

460
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.039
did so well, is just literally how do you turn

461
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:08.079
the Titanic? And they did and they did, and it's

462
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.000
just really it's many of the books that I've written

463
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.519
over the years that I've been hosting the show. The

464
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:15.279
case ends up showing up, but the way that you

465
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.119
described it was just great for discovery.

466
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.079
Well, and then strain everyone around. If you take a

467
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:25.000
look at Nadella, I mean you see someone who engage relationally,

468
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:29.839
engages others, is okay with new ideas. When he made

469
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.519
errors and he did around gender pay early on he

470
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:36.480
went on and admitted the error, you know, as there's

471
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:41.960
a lot that he modeled as this notion of discovering

472
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:45.200
and moving this shift to this new way of operating

473
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.359
as well as supported it, and so did his senior

474
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:51.799
staff and so did it. It really was a all

475
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:53.279
hands on deck kind of thing.

476
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.720
It's really to be celebrated and revered and emulated. Right,

477
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:00.640
That's what's why we're talking about it. Okay, Now I

478
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.640
want to go on and talk about that delta case,

479
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:05.640
Delta care case, and what I want to situate that

480
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:07.599
really stood out for me as I was reading it

481
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:10.720
and as you go on to describe what happened, is

482
00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:13.759
I want to situate how really as they were looking

483
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:17.000
at understanding, you know, what was going on, and looking

484
00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:20.440
at their patient mapping care flows that they had in

485
00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:23.920
the beginning, they started to accept their high patient death rate.

486
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:26.160
Oh we get the really so well, there wasn't.

487
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:27.880
Really a death rate. I did see that in your

488
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:33.119
in your oh okay, but definitely handoffs were being missed.

489
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:36.359
And okay, okay, not what they wanted to say, Okay, okay.

490
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:38.200
And so the other thing that I that I really

491
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.160
got to is, you know, when they really got into

492
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.279
together as a team and they enrolled various kinds of

493
00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:47.440
representative stakeholders to do this work, which I thought was brilliant.

494
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:50.279
And they really walked through the process of what does

495
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:52.720
a patient go through to get care here? You know,

496
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.680
they really discovered that it was really chaotic and then

497
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:59.519
it really took heroics to pull off between the caregivers

498
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:01.160
as well as the patients. So if you could just

499
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:04.279
situate this case for us and kind of what happened.

500
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.079
Okay, so I think this if I can just go

501
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.720
back a little bit with the mapping of the care

502
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:13.359
flows that was on whiteboards in a meeting, and they

503
00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:15.799
were chagrined. They really one of their beliefs was we

504
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.599
can get We've got this. You know, we may have

505
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.359
little glitches here and there, but we've got We've had

506
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.640
great reputation, We've got this. And they didn't. They could

507
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:29.480
not map the flows. You would think that this broad

508
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:32.480
stakeholder group, which actually also is typical of many of

509
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.680
these discovery efforts, at least you broaden it to include

510
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:41.359
those who can help move it forward, but also then

511
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:43.759
who are impacted by it. So in this case, they

512
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:47.480
included patients. They included board members say and brilliant, you

513
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.880
know those kinds of things. So they but this mapping

514
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:57.319
thing totally upended their sense that they could map the flows.

515
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:59.480
And you would think clinicians should be able to do this,

516
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:03.279
but they never really saw outside their area. It was

517
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.920
very specialty based, and in fact, the whole novel solution

518
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:11.559
was to move through a process for patients from getting

519
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:17.680
into out of the system, regardless of specialty. That they

520
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:21.160
were able to track that process and then every clinician

521
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:24.119
was helpful to do that. But they had I want

522
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:27.599
to point out one piece with the mapping and also

523
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:31.680
when they walked the flows, which was dramatic. Both of

524
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:37.480
those raised difficulties for them, as you noted. And when

525
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.720
we face these difficulties, the surprise kind of thing and unexpected,

526
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.880
we again have choices. I mean, they could have explained

527
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:51.839
away the mapping exercise as an artifact of that exercise,

528
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:54.279
or they could have delegated it to others, or they

529
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.480
could have gone to the literature review of best practices.

530
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:01.200
They had many options, but they that they would walk

531
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:04.559
the care flows. They chose that they would engage more

532
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:09.039
and over across all the studies. You see this amplifying

533
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:14.319
engagement with the situation, so that getting to know the

534
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:18.319
situation that's so relevant for them. It was the patient

535
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.400
flows and the units that was so relevant for the

536
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:26.079
change that they were trying to make it. So they

537
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.000
did discover, as you mentioned, that it was fragmented, it

538
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.880
wasn't an artifact of the exercise, and that's where they went.

539
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.160
I mean, I have a chief nursing officer said hey,

540
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:40.000
this I think it helped us to say, wait a minute,

541
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:45.680
this is really chaotic or the physician physicians were on board,

542
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.240
became on board. I have to say, there's more to it,

543
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.680
but it was a big AHA that helped make visible

544
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:54.759
to us that we were not doing patient care as

545
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.319
well as we would like. So that AHA is a

546
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:02.240
discovery termal right. They were owning it. That's the piece

547
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:06.119
they talked about it, and it led them to the

548
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:09.079
next cycle that they did where they took not these

549
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.920
high level patient care flows, but then they focused in

550
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.920
on inpatient care and they found other kinds of problems

551
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.519
there as well. In fact, the CEO, the president of

552
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:22.319
the hospital said, you know, during one of these mapping

553
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:24.519
sessions that they did at the lower level, jeez, we

554
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.279
know how our patients get in, but we don't know

555
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:31.000
how they get out right, And so in any rate,

556
00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:33.720
it kept going from multiple cycles, and I think the

557
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:36.799
thing that it shows in the book they had five cycles.

558
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.480
I'm trying to see if that's what it takes or

559
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:44.279
if that's just their cycles. So I'm doing separate research

560
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:47.920
right now trying to look at that what does a

561
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:53.319
change project large writ look like in terms of cycles

562
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:57.000
that they go through inside. But so they then developed

563
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:01.759
a very model, very novel MoDT of patient care delivery

564
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:06.640
that was frankly certainly nationally renowned in the US, and

565
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:10.039
they kept the visitors. There's some articles written about it.

566
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.880
I need to use the pseudonym at this point except

567
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:20.000
for the President's name, mainly patients sensitivity and things like that.

568
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.599
Right, totally understand, Thank you, Karen. I mean, that is

569
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:27.759
such a powerful case study to really situate when you know,

570
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:31.200
when an organization commits to really understanding how do we

571
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:36.480
radically understand and improve our service and our standard of care.

572
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.920
I really was very, very profoundly impressed with that, and

573
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:43.720
listeners and viewers that study alone is worth you picking

574
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:45.440
up the book for. So I'll leave it at that.

575
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.920
And with that, let's grab our last break. I'm your host,

576
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.200
doctor Eli's qrtees. We were on the air with Karen Goldenbiddle.

577
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:55.680
She's an organizational ethnographer, educator, and a sought after voice

578
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:59.440
on discovery, transformation and navigating change. We're talking about a

579
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.200
few of the care studies that she has in her

580
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:05.519
fantastic book that really illustrate the power of embracing discovery

581
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.079
and what happens when we don't see with us. After

582
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.360
the break, we're going to get into her approach to

583
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:16.559
really elevating the acceptance and the success rate of change management.

584
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:17.920
We'll be right back.

585
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:37.119
Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

586
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:40.960
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

587
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:44.840
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

588
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:48.880
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

589
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:52.199
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

590
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.960
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

591
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:58.239
at Eliscortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

592
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:00.000
your employees working on purpose.

593
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:00.199
This is.

594
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.440
Working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes to reach our

595
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:12.519
program today, or to open a conversation with Elise, send

596
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:17.880
an email to Alise A Lisee at Elisecortes dot com.

597
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:20.079
Now back to working on Purpose.

598
00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:27.079
Thanks for sting with us, and welcome back to working

599
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.719
on this. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. As I

600
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.440
mentioned in the last break, my last book came out

601
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:34.880
in Marshall twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization.

602
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:37.960
How activating meaning a purpose can radically in liven your business.

603
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:40.280
What I did for you is I created a three.

604
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.599
Page organizational assessment for you to determine the extent to

605
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:46.320
which your organization is running in a way that needs

606
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:48.760
the discerning needs of today's workforce. You can find it

607
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:52.599
at gustodeshnow dot com if you are just now joining us.

608
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:55.519
My guest is Karen Goldenbiddle. She's the author of The

609
00:35:55.639 --> 00:35:58.840
Untapped Power of Discovery, How to Create Change and Inspires

610
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:01.760
a future, a better future. Sure, So, before we get

611
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:06.519
into the change management focus that you really exemplify here,

612
00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:07.920
I do want to talk about a couple of more

613
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.559
of your case studies. Yeah, one of them is this

614
00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:16.000
notion of the opportunity to really capitalize on surprise, which

615
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:19.719
is illustrated through the Doug Dietz MRI case.

616
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:21.400
Will you situate that for us?

617
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:25.159
It's such a powerful case, and I really really applaud

618
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:27.719
his approach to what he discovered.

619
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:32.840
Definitely. Doug Dietz was a lead designer at GE Healthcare

620
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:37.480
when was this case developed. He led teams a team

621
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:41.280
of designers to develop a new MRI I for children

622
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:44.960
and and it was an award winning machine that he

623
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:48.519
was very proud of. So an hospital invited him to

624
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:50.760
come visit to take a look at the machine in

625
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:55.079
VMRI in implementation and he was allowed to go. And

626
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:00.360
during that visit he encountered a young girl who was

627
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:04.119
having an MRI taken with her family, and he observed

628
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.119
the He was asked to go in the hallway and

629
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:09.159
saw them walking down the hall even and he could

630
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:12.000
see as the family got closer, the young girl was

631
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.559
weeping and the father was telling her that things would

632
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:20.639
be all right. Diets also said she was frozen. I mean,

633
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:23.239
it was just he could just see this and he

634
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:25.639
you know, when you think about this, he was proud

635
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:30.400
of this award winning machine, and he saw this young

636
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.039
girl who was terrified of going in to have the

637
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:36.760
MR That was not at all what he had ever

638
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:40.599
imagined nor any of the designers for this. They had

639
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:43.480
made it easier for technologists and a little bit smaller,

640
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:49.280
but never really thought further than that. He then started

641
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:55.119
noticing other things. He realized it was a crazy, terrifying

642
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:58.559
environment as well. The walls were based, very institutional and

643
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:01.960
so forth. There was just them was big, she was tiny.

644
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:05.400
He got to see a different perspective. I mean, that

645
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.480
was that different vantage point that he just had not

646
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:12.880
seen before. He also then she needed to be sedated,

647
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:16.480
and he was horrified to learn that eighty percent of

648
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:21.000
the children who will undergo MRIs needed to be sedated.

649
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:26.119
That has dramatically changed since he adjusted some things as

650
00:38:26.119 --> 00:38:30.119
a result. The key here is he really had multiple surprises.

651
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:34.119
I mean the sedation, the young girl being terrified, and

652
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:37.199
he could have again I'm stressing this choice. He could

653
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:39.400
have just let that go and say, well, we weren't

654
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:42.239
paid to do that. We didn't nobody said anything, you know,

655
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:44.519
the hospitals would just kind of go there. But there

656
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.159
was no way he was going to do that. He said.

657
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:51.199
It really was a huge awakening for him, and he

658
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:53.360
went back to the team. He talked with his wife.

659
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:58.519
He was really I had troubled I guess would be

660
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:01.320
the words about this, about what he saw that day

661
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:04.679
in the in the hospital. So he went on to

662
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:09.519
redesign and they now they weren't able to redesign the machine,

663
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:12.880
but they were able to change the way the machine

664
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:17.559
would be received by creating spaceships and other kinds of

665
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:21.360
things that children like. They he went actually his own search,

666
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.719
and when you think about the launching new ways, he

667
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:27.440
went wide and far to see. He watched children play,

668
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:31.000
He watched he watched some crawl under blankets and to

669
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:33.519
create forts, and he you know all this, and he said,

670
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:35.800
we can do that here. We can make it more

671
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:39.159
vibrant in the room. We can have people enter, you know,

672
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:42.199
help them come in if they have a character that

673
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:46.039
they're playing. And you know the amount of sedation I mean,

674
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:48.480
so all of that went through and it still is

675
00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:51.760
it still is that way, and that whole notion of

676
00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:55.559
embracing surprise, I mean, sedation is minimal at this point,

677
00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:59.679
which itself is a huge outcome for that. And then

678
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.719
there is way more attunement to the needs of the

679
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:09.239
users to access user experience in the design, So you

680
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:14.000
really see that with design thinking, accessing user experience and

681
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.159
augdits is in part responsible for that.

682
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:20.239
It's a brilliant, delightful story, and then even go on

683
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:22.800
to say that he then got to witness at least

684
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.679
one of the children going through that newly designed situation

685
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:27.920
asking him can I do it again?

686
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:30.880
Yes? Yes, yes, thank you for having that.

687
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:34.760
What a difference between you know, being frozen and needing

688
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.440
to be sedated to let's do that again. So just

689
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:41.559
just a delightful example.

690
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.239
In his human response, he has a ted talk that

691
00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:47.719
I reference the site to it in the book. That's

692
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:51.239
just so worth watching as well as well as he's

693
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.400
a nice.

694
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:54.280
I've got it on my list to watch. I definitely will.

695
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:56.599
I know that there's room for me to give that

696
00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:59.199
as an example for sure. So while there's two we have,

697
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:01.239
we're getting at the end of time, but there's two

698
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:02.880
things I want to do next. I want to definitely

699
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:06.000
talk about the guinea worm disease case. And the reason

700
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:08.400
that I think that is so important, Karen is it's

701
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:12.599
a huge problem and it really illustrates the power of

702
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:15.880
how to enroll people in change management in a way

703
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:16.920
that you most.

704
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:18.480
People would never have ever thought of.

705
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:21.960
So if you could situate us for us the case

706
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:23.840
that you have about the guinea worm disease.

707
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:26.280
Okay, so it's a big case.

708
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:28.599
It knows around the ring a lot.

709
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:33.800
I'll be short. It's about the power of growing connections

710
00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:37.440
for change, and so a collaboration made all the difference

711
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:42.880
in being closed to eradicate a disease that in nineteen

712
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:46.559
eighty six had three point one million cases per year

713
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:52.679
in Africa and India. Then people, there was no vaccine

714
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:55.960
that would would be and still isn't. There was no

715
00:41:56.079 --> 00:42:01.719
medication to prevent it or treated infections someone. It don't

716
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:05.519
didn't if someone had guinea worm disease, it didn't confer

717
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:08.119
immunity onto them to not have it again.

718
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:08.920
For example.

719
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:13.719
The only cure for this, which totally intrigued me, the

720
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.039
only and I looked at a lot of this during

721
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:19.800
COVID actually, so there was a parallel. The only cure

722
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:24.239
was behavior change. Now there's also some belief change that

723
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:26.360
we can get into, but right now the focus is

724
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:30.039
on behavior change. They needed to filter the water. So

725
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:35.360
basically guinea worm is really the US It's known as

726
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:40.360
dracunculiasis for the public health people in the audience. It's

727
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:45.039
contracted when people drink water contaminated by these tiny fleas

728
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:49.480
that carry warm larva. And so when you would bucket

729
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:53.079
the water from the from the spring, from the water

730
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:56.639
the ponds in the villages, they would have the larva

731
00:42:56.719 --> 00:43:01.760
with it. The infection incubates and ends when the worm

732
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:05.320
that has grown inside the body has to come out

733
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:08.480
in some spot and it erupts from the skin. It's

734
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.840
often three feet long, taking months to a very debilitating

735
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:18.039
disease of creating painful sores, painful sores. So the only

736
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:21.880
cure was this The Carter Foundation, the Carter Center, led

737
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:27.159
by President Jimmy Carter, as well as Donald Hopkins, who

738
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:31.679
was on the team with smallpox. The whole small eradication

739
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:37.440
of smallpox launched a global collaboration and they went wide

740
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.599
and far for this. And so Jimmy Carter obviously had

741
00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:42.960
worked with the tribal chiefs. He was able to bring

742
00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:48.440
public health officials in the various places. That's key for this.

743
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:53.840
And from Carter and Hopkins on out, there was a

744
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.960
respectful engagement for everyone in the process. So when they

745
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:00.960
brought village workers in to be edgu caters and to

746
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:04.079
learn how to educate. In fact, the village health educators

747
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:10.719
are notably key to the uptake of this behavior change. Definitely,

748
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:13.840
we're part of that. All through that, I think what

749
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:17.400
that's what I want to emphasize is the relational connections

750
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:22.400
with this. Today they plug the guinea room disease has

751
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:27.599
plunged by ninety nine percent last year. The most recent

752
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:32.800
reporting case had only thirteen cases. Wow, it is and

753
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:37.000
some of them are a war striven area in rural areas.

754
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:39.519
And then they're really working. It has jumped a little

755
00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:43.039
bit to animals, to dogs, and so they're working diligently too.

756
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:47.280
But everyone, including the scientists, I want to say, bring

757
00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:52.800
like a humility and they know science, but they also

758
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:56.079
respect that there are beliefs that the villagers hold and

759
00:44:56.119 --> 00:44:59.920
they work with those, unlike others that may go in

760
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.480
and tell people what they should believe in, what they

761
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:05.639
should do, right dramatically different, Yeah.

762
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:07.599
Yes, yes, And I just thought that was and in fact,

763
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:10.000
what I remember you tell me if I've got this right, Karen,

764
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:13.440
that they to the point where the educators were able

765
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:17.960
to help the villagers actually start to notice themselves that

766
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.679
there's something in the water, they could see it themselves.

767
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.760
And when they could see it themselves, they would oh,

768
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.800
this is not safe to drink, but yes, leaning into

769
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:29.079
their space so they could actually enroll them so they

770
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.599
could see. That was I think a big part of

771
00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:32.559
the behavioral change.

772
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:34.519
Yeah, thank you, I like to thank you for adding that.

773
00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:37.000
I mean, because that was the belief that was a

774
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:40.360
discovered discover one of the discovery cycles that happened there

775
00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:42.760
where you could see their beliefs where it was sacred

776
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:45.760
water and that these worms they thought were a normal

777
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:48.760
part of the body. And so they really came to

778
00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:52.559
know through this seeing the worms in the water, they

779
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:55.639
were stunned, how that hell could that happen? Or the larvae,

780
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:58.199
how could that happen in sacred water like that? And

781
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:03.119
so they went through and the education that the global

782
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:08.159
collaboration had done really created a discovery possibility for them

783
00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:09.440
to go through that.

784
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:14.519
So powerful. And we're we're getting very close to the

785
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:14.880
end here.

786
00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:17.000
But I really want to situate for our listeners and viewers,

787
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:19.199
you know a different perspective.

788
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:19.800
On change management.

789
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:22.199
You talk about it, you know, eighty five percent failure rate,

790
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:25.280
and let's just if we can care and situate. You know,

791
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:28.320
you talk about bringing you know, three factors to life

792
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:32.239
and the discovery process that can challenge traditional change management.

793
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.079
Can you just sort of situate those for us?

794
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:37.760
Sure? And I'm not saying John's a particular model I mean,

795
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:42.000
but I think the discovery offers ways to enhance and

796
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:46.360
change many different change models. Yes, yes, that's the piece.

797
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:48.719
It's the process that we've through it. And so one

798
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:52.760
is you start from a different place with discovery. You

799
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:56.400
start with a problematic situation and you do not presume

800
00:46:56.480 --> 00:47:00.280
to know the answer with that, and so and if

801
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:03.920
it's a software implementation project or whatever, you don't start

802
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:07.639
with trying to get buyer employee buy in. In fact,

803
00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:11.000
employee buy in, you don't go for So it's that discovery.

804
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:15.239
You want to question and explore the problem itself and

805
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:18.159
not assume that you know what it is. Yes, that's

806
00:47:18.199 --> 00:47:21.280
what it means. And more and more you take time there,

807
00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:27.119
you are greatly enriched later with that. That's one you

808
00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:30.280
want to access the user experience. I just talked about

809
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:33.800
that a bit. Traditional change management is all about getting

810
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:36.400
everyone on the bus and getting buy in. There is

811
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:39.679
a place for that, but it's not before you know

812
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:43.079
what before you know what. That is the user experience.

813
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:47.039
I mean I had projects with MPa students who looked

814
00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:52.000
at our own software implementation issue at Boston University with Peoplesofts,

815
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:54.719
and they, I mean they saw a number of ways

816
00:47:54.760 --> 00:48:00.440
that they needed to access user experience more the deep

817
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:04.360
understanding of the situation and the users. And then finally,

818
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:08.840
a big one is treat discovery as continuous. That we

819
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:13.440
saw that with play Pump it continues in and beyond implementation,

820
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:16.760
even scaling up. You want to be able if you

821
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:19.320
scale up something, you want to be able to incorporate

822
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.800
discovery into that process and not assume you're going to

823
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.679
just take what you've done and put it in another

824
00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:29.199
unit or another location. So that's a quick way to

825
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:33.239
talk about these three, but they are fundamentally different. I'm

826
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:36.440
actually writing up a piece right now that talks about

827
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:39.559
these and fleshes that out well.

828
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:42.679
I think that is an amazing contribution, Karen, And because

829
00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:46.800
so many organizational change efforts are complete failures, and that alone,

830
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:49.840
so listeners and viewers getting the book for a few

831
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:53.119
of these case studies as well as that methodology is

832
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:56.159
totally worth picking up. For that, Karen, I want to

833
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:58.039
say thank you for coming into my world. Thank you

834
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.519
for coming on and working on purpose, sharing your research.

835
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:04.599
You're clearly passionate about it.

836
00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:05.480
Very happy to know you. Thank you for coming on.

837
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:07.840
Likewise, Elise, thank you.

838
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:08.840
You're welcome.

839
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:10.639
Listeners and viewers, you were going to want to learn

840
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:14.159
more about this remarkable woman, Karen Goldenbiddle, the work she

841
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:18.599
does helping organizations navigate discovery, transformation and change, and her book.

842
00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:20.880
So go to her website. It's I'm going to say

843
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.320
it and then spell it for you. It's Karen Golden

844
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:26.440
dash Biddle dot com. So her first name k A

845
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:30.280
R E N Golden g O L d E N

846
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:34.800
Dash Biddle b I D D l e dot com

847
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:38.719
Karen gooldendash Biddle dot com. Last week, if you missed

848
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:41.400
the live show, you can always catch it via recorded podcast.

849
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:43.840
We were on the air with Jeff Wetsler talking about

850
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:46.639
his new book Ask Tap into the Hidden Wisdom of

851
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:49.880
People around You for unexpected breakthroughs in leadership and life.

852
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:53.920
Really amazing what you can learn by asking people around

853
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:56.599
you about their perspective of you, your performance, et cetera

854
00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:59.159
game changer which you got to learn how to do

855
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:01.519
it and learn how to do well. Next week will

856
00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:03.880
be on the air with Garren Store talking about his

857
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.840
work linking athletes mental game to their physical game, as

858
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:11.039
well as his own incredible journey he's been on navigating leukemia.

859
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:13.360
See you there, Remember work as one of the best

860
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:15.719
adventures and means of realizing our potential and making the

861
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:16.599
impact we crave.

862
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:18.400
So let's work on Purpose.

863
00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:23.880
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

864
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:27.559
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

865
00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:30.920
each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create

866
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:35.079
a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion

867
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:38.159
performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the

868
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:41.559
meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work

869
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:42.360
on Purpose.