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The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
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solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
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What's working on Purpose?
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Anyway?
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Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People
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ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their
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talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave
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being part of an organization that inspires them and helps
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them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be
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such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity.
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In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help
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usher in this world we all want working on purpose.
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Now here's your host, doctor Elise Cortez.
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Welcome back to Working in a Purpose program, which has
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been brought to you with passionate price since February twenty fifteen.
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Thanks for tuning in this week. Great to have you.
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I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. If wed before and
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you don't know me, I'm an organizational psychologist, workforce advisor
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and management consultant, speaker and author. My team and I
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at gusta Now help companies to enlive, and and fortify
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their operations by building a dynamic, high performance culture, inspirational leadership,
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and nurturing managers activated by meaning and purpose. You can
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learn about what we do and how we can help
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you by visiting gustodeshnow dot com. I'm or my personal
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site at least Cortes dot com. With us today is
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doctor Doug Breckman. He is a psychologist at I Am Driven.
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He works with highly driven leaders and other highly driven
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people who often who often add and ADHD spectrum to
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help them stop their cycle of shame and self sabotage
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so that they can achieve the success and happiness they
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were designed for. He's the co author of Driven Understanding
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and Hard Seeing the Genetic Gifts of Entrepreneurs, Navy Seals
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and professional athletes and Maybe You, and a new book
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just coming out called Sheep and Wolves why a small
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percentage of the neurodivergent population may be responsible for all
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the problems in the world, and the solution. We'll be
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talking about the characteristics of this what ten percent of
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the population that are highly driven and how they can
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learn to be effective in life through the right structured
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support systems. These ersure today from Nashville, Tennessee, Doctor Doug A. Hardy,
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Welcome to Working on Purpose.
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Thank you, Elise.
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It's really great to know you. You probably changed my life, sir,
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So thanks a lot for that. I have so much
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insight reading your book and went, oh my gosh, wow.
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That's my favorite Amazon review. It says a very uncomfortable autobiography.
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So it's a yeah, it's kind of a little crey
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close for home for a lot of people.
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Yeah, we'll talk more about that offline. But wow, so big,
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thank you. So it's really amazing to me that you know,
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you focus on only ten percent of the population, talk
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about a niche group. So let's talk a little bit
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about this specific group year ten percent that you're talking about.
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This is the driven population. So how would you describe
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them and why do you want to work with them?
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Well, it's it's I am a license psychologist and both
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iopsyche and clinical psyche, and so it's a clinically speaking
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it it's called a whole bunch of different things, and
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so categorization is not really a big fan of that.
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And so it's a collection of neuro divergent and genetic
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divergence that really encapsulates and I generously give it ten percent,
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but it's really probably three or four percent to be
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you know, kind of swear in the middle. Then you
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get the fringes. But it's if you got it, you
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know you got it, and if you know somebody who
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has it, it's really that were different. And so it was,
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you know, when I entered psychology and I went into
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grad school in nineteen ninety one, and it everybody gets
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into psychology to figure out their own crap. And I
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was headstrong into really understanding myself. I always knew I
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was different and tried to fit in and that led
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to a whole bunch of whole bunch of issues. But
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in nineteen ninety one, when they released this Time magazine
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article came out with we found the alcoholism gene, and
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that was the d r D two dash A one
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allele gene. Thirty five, thirty six years ago, forty years ago,
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they really didn't understand genetics, and so it was the
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nature versus nurture controversy still existed, and in the last
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ten years, particular the last five epigenetically, the argument is
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that nature versus nurture is gone, and so meaning that
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our genes interact with the environment and turn on and off,
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and so we being the drivens, are a collection of
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very different people, and we are primarily different in the
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way our brain works. And so the default model network
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is this operating system the brain. And so we have
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an operating system that literally is operating three times as fast,
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connecting four times as many brain parts simultaneously. So it's
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literally our brains are working differently. All the hardware is
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the saying, but the software is running a very quick, fast,
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different program. So literally we see the world in a
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different way.
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I appreciate how you'd also described this driven population that
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you talk about here, just so many different things about
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them that some of this, of course, being that you're
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chronically disconnected and discontented. I thought that was a really
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interesting I'm in this category to a certain extent too,
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I'm looking more on the periphery, not smack down the middle,
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but I could recognize it a chronic dopamine efficiency that
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creates persistent discontent. All kinds of interesting things, high sensory
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and emotional intensity, fast pattern recognition, as as you said,
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with poor impulse breaking. An interesting sort of collection of
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how to describe this group.
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And the easiest way, kind of the simplest way to
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describe it is really the science behind it. You put
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us in a functional MRI, and the functional MRI is
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just way of actually seeing in real time what's activated
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in the brain. Currently, most people ninety plus ninety five
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percent of people, when you put them in a functional MRI,
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they have a nice ball of activity in the left
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proof frontal lobe. It's the executive function. And what the
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executive function does for most people, it is a It
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tunes out information, and so it allows them to selectively
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tune into information, and interestingly, it puts into a series
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of sequential events. And so if you think about, you know,
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the hunter farmer theory, where most people over the last
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five six, seven thousand years adapted to the agricultural revolution,
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and if you think about what it takes to survive
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as a farmer's farming, and so they are wired. You
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put their finger in the ground, they put corn in it,
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and then they pat it, and then they water it,
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and then they patiently wait and all of those attributes
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then you know, lead to their survival. But there's five
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six percent of us that when you put us in
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a functional MRI, we don't have all of activity here.
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Really interestingly, the back of our heads lighted up, which
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is called the ziphital, and what that does is literally
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it's where eesight is, and so we use our eyesight
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to go through the world. Byproduct of that is we
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have something called hypofrontality and this big collection of symptoms
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around add or ADHD, two very different things, but the
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similarity is this frontal lobe that is hypoactive, meaning that
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it's underactive. In comparison to the people that have this
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big ball energy, we have little dots of activity all over.
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The farmer sees the world as a series of sequential steps.
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We see the world as a big ball of potential
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activity all at the same time. And we have a
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horrible sense of time. I mean, we are late to
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every day. We are constantly in this world where we then,
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with all this activity going on, we can draw lines
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unique combination of variables that other people can't see. So,
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you know, we tell our stories or we try to
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explain our vision for the company, and you know, people
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look at us like we're crazy because we, you know,
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are literally seeing connections between eighteen different things, where the
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normal brain, you know, is only seeing connections between two
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or three. So you know, it is a truly a
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different world that we live in.
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But it wasn't made for us. So I'll tell you,
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you know, candidly. I took your assessment and I came
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out there's ten attributes that, of course are measured, and
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I'm eight of them. I'm I'm shown on the assessment
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is above average, And I thought, okay, that's you know,
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there's it's probably you know, maybe it's not. Who knows.
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Maybe I was in a weird mooder when edw with
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the assessment. But then I read your book, tug I did.
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Somebody worked with me years ago, and I told her
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how I like to finish my Saturday afternoon is my
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time to read my books for the for the podcast,
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and she goes, oh my gosh, you read books like
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I eat cookie. So your book, your first book, Driven
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is three hundred and fifty pages. I easily just sat
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down and just about it in four hours, and you know,
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you know, wrote the notes and highlighted what I wanted
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to have for my notes, and I mean, I just
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couldn't put it down. I was like, oh my gosh.
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I was like, every other page, I'm like that that's me.
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That explains me. And I can't tell you how.
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I don't know.
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If I'm sobered by it or if I am scared,
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I don't know, but I just am. I'm amazed the
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work that you're doing.
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I appreciate that, and it's for me. And why I
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wrote Driven is I prior to writing and so I
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wrote it published in seventeen or eighteen there about seventeen, yeah, seventeen.
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Prior to that, you know, I was calling it the
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entrepreneurial mind. I was calling it all these different things.
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And I happened to actually be working in maybe special warfare,
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working in the PTSD world, and they're all driven too,
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and so it was this, you know, and it is
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we're drawn into this high risk, hyper you know, chaotic
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world and that's where we thrive. And one of the
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early authors on this, Tom Hartman, was talking about how
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you know, in you look at a pool of bacteria,
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thousand of the same bacteria, there's about three four five
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percent of that bacteria that's waiting for rapidly changing environments.
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And you know, the ice age hits, they're going to survive.
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And so that's us. When you know, the meteorite hits
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or the next ice age, or you know, AI comes
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onto the scene, when chaos and all of that new activity,
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we just thrive in it. So it makes sense, you know,
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we're a bunch of animals. Why we would be so
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resist in the population. You know why it hasn't this
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been baited out? Because things change and you know, and
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so it's a it's a very relieving thing for a
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lot of people because we structure our sense of self
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or our identity very differently. That's right, when we go
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into a normal you know, a farmer's or a typical
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neurotypical psychologist's office, we can run circles around them and
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we literally we can finish their sentences and they think
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we're crazy or sociopathic, or they don't like they don't
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know what they're looking at. And so large the biggest difference,
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this left prefrontal is an identity machine. And if you
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think about you know, ten thousand years ago, there's mostly
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drivens running around on the planet, you know, after this
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massive meteorite hit fourteen thousand years ago and we're figuring
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out survival. But as the agricultural revolution and population grew
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and most people you know, as I always say, turned
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into butchers and bakers and candlestick makers, they had this
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nice channel of this is how I survived, This is
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what I do. You want to take a driven person
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and make them crazy, is ask them to tell us
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who you are and what do you mean? Who like that?
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You know, because we don't have that consistent you know,
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experience through life with our thoughts. We're thinking all over
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the place, and you know we tend to and all
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of us need a sense of self. Most drivens tend
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to use their emotion as identity. And the genetics behind it,
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you know, the dopamine receptors number two, which is boredom,
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the boredom gene. And you know, if you're a farmer,
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you need to tolerate boredom. You literally are wired to watch
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stuff grow. Yeah, as I always joked with all my drivens,
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you know, I'm unemployable. I truly am and most of
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my guys are our employed, so they have to start
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their own thing. But what boredom is is very simply,
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it's a feeling that there's something missing or wrong.
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I understand it well, and.
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You know that when that gets folded into identity, there's
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something missing or wrong with me. And these are the
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addictive genetics and anything that takes you out of that
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feeling that there's something missing or wrong with me, oh
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potentially become addicted. It also explains why we're so defensive.
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You want to drive a driven person crazy. It's accuse