The Business of Mattering in the Workplace

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FOURCY Radio. What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache
for meaning and purpose at work, to

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contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part

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of an organization that inspires them and
helps them grow into realizing their highest potential.

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Business can be such a force for
good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance
and inspiration to help usher in this

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world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, Doctor

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Relise Cortes. Welcome back to the
Working and Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning

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again this week. Great to have
you. This program has been on air

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since February twenty fifteen, and it
is a pride and joy for me.

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I am your host, Doctorlie's Cortes. If we've not met yet, you

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don't know me. I am a
management consultant, organizational LOCO therapist, speaker

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and author. My team and I
at Gusto Now help companies to enliven and

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fortify their operations by articulating their purpose
in building insurraged leaders and cultures activated by

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meeting and purpose to turn those companies
from a flatline EKG to a vibrant destination

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workplace. There people are intrinsically motivated
to perform with their best, grow into

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their fuller potential, and are committed
to stay in dynamic to deliver on the

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company's mission. You can learn more
about us and how we can work together

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at gustodashnow dot com or at least
Coortes dot com. Now let's get in

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today's program. We have with us
back again. Doctor Zach mccuriel. He

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is an author, researcher, and
a consultant specializing in purposeful leadership, meaningful

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work, and positive organizational psychology.
Author of The Invisible Leader, Transform Your

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Life, work an organization with the
power of authentic purpose, and he works

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with companies, schools, and governments
around the world to forge purposeful leaders and

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cultivate positive cultures that enable more meaning, mattering, motivation, well being,

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and performance. Today we're talking about
the business and mattering in the workplace.

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He joined it today from Denver,
Zach. Welcome back to Working on Purpose.

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Thanks Lise. I'm looking forward to
it. It's good to back.

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It's great to have you. But
before we start, I have just one

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little pickle with you that I want
to I want to go back to,

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and that is, you know,
since I when I first met you,

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you did embarrass me in public.
You may not know this, and here's

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how you did it. My friend, I'll take whatever apology you want to

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send me. But when I was
reading your book, The Invisible Leader,

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I was on a long flight from
Dallas to Australia from my vacation and there

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were so many great points in your
book that I'm on the plane and I'm

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gesturing and I'm saying aloud, yes, that's right. This is people are

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looking at me like the crazy lady
in Asle three. So just so you

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know, you have publicly embarrassed me. Well, I'm fine with that I'm

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not going to apologize for creating another
person out there who's vocally and nonverbally excited

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about purpose. Okay, good,
good, good, I've accomplished my mission.

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Okay good. It was fun.
It was great, gobs of fun.

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Good. Oh. So, for
our listeners and viewers who don't know

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you yet the way that I do, because this is your second time on

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you were you were on in twenty
eighteen, let's start with how you found

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your way into the purpose and mattering
space. There's always the story there rust

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people, sure, and a lot
of times that story comes with experiencing the

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lack of feeling a sense of purpose
a service in the work. And for

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me, it started in my first
job out of college. I was educated

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for success, which meant I was
educated to get and acquire things, and

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I got it. I mean,
I had a good job in advertising.

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Yet when I looked around, everybody
was talking about what they did last weekend

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or what they were going to do
the weekend coming up. And my brain

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could not compute that people lived for
two sevens of their lives the weekend.

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You know, I just couldn't let
that go. And then also I got

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to be out in front of people. I was in sales, so I

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got to be out talking to really
interesting human beings living very important lives who

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were thinking about using our services to
build their businesses. But when I went

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back into the workplace, we had
meetings that were really just about how much

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can I get from these people?
Yeah, and I stopped and I just

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I thought to myself, you know, is this really all there is?

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And I had some interactions along the
way where I realized that it's not all

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there is. You know, there
are people who experience profound joy in what

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they're doing, whether it's from a
custodian, a taxi cab driver, or

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a bus driver, a CEO,
but they tend to have something in common.

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I was finding is that they focus
on their contribution rather than what they're

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doing. They focus on what they
impact through their contribution. And that led

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me, you know, that realization
led me on the track that I'm on

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now, which one was to make
sure nobody ended up like me again and

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didn't ask those bigger questions. But
two, how can we create environments where

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everybody can readily see both their humanity
and their significance. And I do that

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in a couple of ways. I
do research as a fellow in the Center

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for Meeting and Purpose at Colorado State
University. There is such a center.

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And then the rest of my time
is I'm out with organizations helping to turn

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the common sense idea of making sure
people feel valued and know how they add

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value into common practice. Well,
I love it and we have similar stories,

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but I'm not going to go into
mind because I want to extract as

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much as I can out of you
on this program. So next now,

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since we're talking about the world of
work, both you and I I riveted

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on the world of work where we
do spend a lot of our time in

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our life. And I love your
articles you're on your blog, zachs are

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fantastic and you have a very powerful
story in one of your articles here where

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you talk about the supposed unmotivated maintenance
workers who were tasked with washing their building's

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bottom floor windows. I think it
would be incredibly compelling and situating for you

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to share that story here. Yes, all behavior issues are inevitably systems and

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cultural issues. You know, we
can't separate the two. Oftentimes we say

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what's wrong with these people right?
Versus what's wrong with our environment? Right?

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When I was asked to work with
a group of maintenance workers. The

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supervisor said to me, hey,
Zach, these these people are unmotivated.

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And one of the responsibilities of these
maintenance workers is to clean the bottom floor

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windows of this industrial complex building that's
on the corner in the summer, every

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single morning, so it's a task
they wake up to. And as I

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went into this group, I simply
said, hey, you know, if

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you were running this place, what
would you do differently? And let me

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tell you something. I did not
see an unmotivated group of workers. They

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had more ideas than I could even
count. They just hadn't ever been asked

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for their voice before. And one
woman followed me out and she goes,

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Zach, I think I figured it
out. I figured out what's going on

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in our team. She said.
In my first week on the job,

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I was tasked with that client cleaning
those bottom floor windows. And I noticed

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at three pm every afternoon, the
sprinkler system would come on and it was

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aimed wrong, and so it would
leave avoidable water splotches which I would have

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to clean the next day. And
she said, I was so excited.

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I went to my supervisor and I
said, hey, I have an idea,

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let's aim the sprinklers differently. She
said that. The supervisor looked at

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her and said, that's not our
problem, that's the sprinkler people's problem.

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I need you to just do your
job, she said. For the next

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five years, she put her head
down and she got through her work.

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So was this an unmotivated worker.
No, this was a worker who experienced

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anti mattering, the experience of her
voice not being heard, of her not

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being significant. And when people experience
insignificance, it results in two things.

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Acts of withdrawal quiet quitting, for
example, was the inevitable withdrawal response of

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people who feel insignificant or acts of
desperation. Hey I do matter. I'm

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going to complain, I'm going to
gossip, I'm going to do all these

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things you're telling me not to do. But their natural human reactions to the

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instinct to matter being unmet. And
that's what we see, I think in

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workplaces at large right now. I
mean the recent the work Human came out

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with an invisibility report and found that
almost forty percent of people feel invisible at

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work. Wow. Wow, Okay, so let's unpack them. There's a

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couple of things I want to say
about that. So I can't how demoralizing,

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how incredibly demoralizing. She's coming with
a solution to a very stupid problem

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that is very very unavoidable, and
she's told basically to go pound sand.

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And so the way when I hear
that, Zach, what I hear is

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what a waste of a precious life. This is a person's precious life.

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She could be doing so much more
with her beautiful contributions than just going through

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those motions if she had somebody who
actually listened to her, cared and found

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some way to be able to employ
her solution. And it didn't happen.

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And what's sad about it is the
supervisor probably doesn't remember it, but it

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has held onto her soul for five
years. Yes, exactly, That's what

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I mean about the one the waste
of somebody's one precious life, exactly.

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And when people experience anti mattering in
the place where they spend a third of

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their waking lives, it inevitably affects
how they make meaning in life, how

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they parent, how they come home, how they're in our communities. I

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mean, there's a lot of talk
about purpose out there and organizations finding their

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call. I think the most important
social cause of an organization is to ensure

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people feel seen, heard, and
valued in the place where they spend one

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third of their only life. Yeah, I completely align with that. That's

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part of the reason I'm an organizational
logo therapist, so I totally get that.

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One of the other things I love
about your work, Zach, is

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that you define and situate these kinds
of terms like mattering in a very accessible

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way. I think a lot of
people hear the word mattering and it registers

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as something, but they don't really
know what it means, and so I

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love your definition. Will you share
with us your definition of what is mattering.

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Mattering is the belief that we're significant
to the world around us. That

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comes from two things, feeling valued
by those around us and knowing exactly how

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we add value to those around us. It's important when we're in this discussion

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not to think of mattering as a
trend or a touchy feely, fluffy idea

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or a generational preference. When you
were born as a baby, the first

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thing that you did, researchers find
is you tilted your head upward to look

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for someone to care for you.
The first thing you did as a human

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being. You did not look for
food, you looked to matter. Nobody

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would be listening to this program right
now if they didn't at some point in

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their life procure mattering to another human
being. It is a fundamental survival instinct,

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and that's why when that survival instinct
to matter is not met, like

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it wasn't met for that maintenance worker, just like not eating for a prolonged

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period of time, our bodies going
to survival mode. So many people right

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now are withdrawing or acting out in
desperation for the significance they're not getting a

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lot of people right now. Loneliness
is a hot topic, and the answers

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to loneliness are really misguided. A
lot of the books on loneliness tell you

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to go get put yourself out there, develop more opportunities for social connections,

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which is all great, but what
we know is that it's not necessarily more

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social connections that matter. It's feeling
significant to the people that are in your

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social sphere right now. So it's
not about how many, it's about how

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you feel significant to those who are
around you. And that's why mattering literally

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comes first as humans, and that's
why it must come first for anything else

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to happen. It's almost impossible for
anything to matter, no matter how compelling

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your work is or your organization's mission
is, it's almost impossible for anything to

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matter to a human being who doesn't
first believe that they matter. Yeah,

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and to bring that home even more
further, ladies and gentlemen, you know,

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Zach, you write about it as
a mattering instinct. Now, when

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you add the word instinct to something
you really understand, well, you just

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can't talk yourself out of it.
I mean sort of. It's just that

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necessary, that required, it is, and it's again, it's about as

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touchy feeling as feeding someone who's hungry
for launch. And organizations on mass have

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been overlooking this instinct. And part
of the reason why is because we've seen

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work as just work. Right,
this is work and this is life.

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And we've told ourselves that to ease
the burden of responsibility. Because when we

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tell ourselves that becomes easier for us
to to humanize people as leaders. And

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if you're an individual, you can
say, oh, it's just my job.

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We get condition to expect less and
that works well for the organization especially,

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But there's no work in life.
I mean, think about that.

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It's still life occurs wherever a human
being is breathing and thinking and their hearts

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beating, and that includes work.
So I think if we don't create organizations

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and adopt the leadership skills to ensure
everyone around us feels like they matter and

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they are skills, we are failing
to meet the most fundamental instinct of human

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beings. I completely agree, and
again because I like the way that you

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provide. Your language provides such accessibility, which means once you get the successibility,

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then we can learn ways to be
able to dress this. So you

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list three primary drivers of mattering at
work, let's talk about those briefly.

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Yeah. So, the first is
that we have to feel seen, right,

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we have to feel absolutely There is
a big difference between knowing somebody and

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noticing them. Though you know,
I can know my best friend but not

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notice that they're struggling or suffering.
It's important to recognize that noticing is the

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deliberate act of paying attention to the
ebbs and flows and details of people's lives

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and then showing them that you've thought
about them. The second is affirming people,

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so showing people how they're significant.
I was just writing a chapter and

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I was writing about Dave Beggers,
the author National Book Award winner. He

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was a Pulitzer Prize finalist. He's
written over eleven books, but he writes

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about that it was six words from
a junior high school English teacher below a

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grade on his first type assignment that
nudged him on the whole path he was

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on. And those six words words
are I hope you become a writer.

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I hope you become a writer.
Right, And that's affirmation. Affirmation is

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when people show us the evidence of
our significance. Yes, beautiful. And

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then the final piece is showing people
how they're needed. Because when people feel

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replaceable, don't be surprised if they
act replaceable, right, right, And

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a lot of people are deluded into
thinking that this was a great resignation,

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and all the data indicates that it
was not a great resignation. Over the

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last three years, it was a
demand for dignity. Oh I love that.

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And people left uncaring leaders, degrading
jobs, and disrespect cultures. They

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but they went back into the workforce. It was a it was a demand

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for dignity. People were no longer
willing to give up their humanity for an

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extra twenty five cents on the hour, so agreeable, noticed, affirmed,

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and needed. And there are a
lot of practices we can dig into under

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each of those. But it's a
great way. You know, it's not

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the only model of mattering out there, but I think models are helpful because

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now it elevates us into being able
to think about this as a practice.

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We can ask a benchmarking question of
ourselves. Am I making sure that people

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around me feel noticed, affirmed and
needed every day? Yes? On that

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note, let's let people kind of
chew on that. There. I'm your

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host, doctor at Least Cortez,
who went on a year with doctor Zach

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mccurio. He is an author,
researcher, and consultant specializing in purposeful leadership,

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meaningful work, and positive organizational psychology. We've been getting into the under

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the hood, if you will,
on mattering after the raak, we're going

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to kick it off with distinguishing mattering
from self esteem and belong Stay with this

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will be right back. Doctor Elise
Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and
author, she helps companies visioneer for greater

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purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

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performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elisecortes dot com.

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Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is

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working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

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open a conversation with Elise, send
an email to a lease a Lise at

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00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:08.400
Elise court Tes dot com. Now
back to working on Purpose. Thanksteresting with

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us, and welcome back to working
on purpose. I'm your host, doctor

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Release Cortes, as I too,
am dedicated to creating a world where people

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realize the potential at work and are
and feel dignified and appreciate it. And

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they are led by inspirational leaders that
help them find and contribute their greatness.

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And we do business at Betters the
World. I keep writing my own books

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and researching as well. So my
latest one came out in March of twenty

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three. It's called a Great Revitalization, How activating meaning and purpose can radically

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in liven your business. And I
wrote it for business leaders to help them

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really understand what Zach's talking about here, how the world of work has radically

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changed, And that's the first part
of the book. And then I offer

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twenty two best practices to help you
actually create environment to meet that. So

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you can find that on Amazon or
one of my websites at least Coortes dot

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com if you are just joining us. My guest is Zach mccurio is the

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author of various articles in the book
The Invisible Leader, Transform your life,

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work and organization with the Power of
Authentic Purpose, and has another book coming

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out soon. Looking forward to that. Zach. Okay, So, one

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of the other things that I like
to hear about when I'm out doing my

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work, though, the notion of
belonging has become very very significant, And

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I like how you distinguish mattering from
belonging in self esteem. So let's do

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that now too. Yeah. I
can feel like I belong on this show

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right now, but I could also
feel not significant to you. Right.

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We can feel like we belong somewhere
and are accepted somewhere, and are represented

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somewhere, but not feel significant to
members of that group. That's right,

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and that's why belonging somewhere in a
group makes it easier, probably to experience

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mattering. But if the people in
the group don't have the skills to show

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me the evidence of my significance,
then I may still feel like I don't

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matter though I belong. So it's
very different. And again it's more elemental.

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It's this idea that I am significant. I'm significant enough to even want

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to belong. So what's interesting,
Zach, I'm just glanced over at my

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top ten values that I have prioritized. My number one value is significance.

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Yeah, my number one. I
love that. I love that, and

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it's not surprising to me, right
of course, given what we do.

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Right of course, right, But
it also should be it should be number

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one because it does come first.
Like, for example, we want people

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to do things like find their purpose. Well, it's hard for someone to

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find their contribution if they don't first
believe they're worthy of contributing. It's hard

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for someone to share their voice if
they don't first believe their voice is significant.

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We want people to soar with their
strengths. Well, it's very hard

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for an individual to discover or uncover
their strengths if they don't first believe they

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have strengths. Right, And so
I love that significance is number one because

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it really is the leading indicator of
almost every lagging indicator that we say we

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want out of people and our organizations. So love this the sec when you

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know you realize you're not going anywhere
once the show finishes, right, you

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know you're stuck with me, You
know that. So now if we distinguish

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self esteem, of course you say
that that self esteem is the confidence in

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our worth and a build is that
we know we have this, and so

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it's what we know about ourselves.
And I love so significance And then actually

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you break this down actually somewhere significance
is there's a twofold piece of it where

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it's a matter of knowing that tell
me the difference there's the two and knowing

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how you add value. Yes,
that's it. That's exactly what I want

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you to say. I think that's
really really critical, really quick fast story.

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So how I learned about meaning I
can't resist is when I was twenty

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six years old, I lived in
Brazil and then well actually spanding in Brazil.

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I had the life in Brazil that
everybody says they want, you know,

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I have a live in what we
called the major, a housekeeper,

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a chauf for a gardener, a
very nice lifestyle. I'm traveling all over

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South America. I don't have a
work fisis, so I'm studying now.

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You would think that would be just
fantastic, but was just one really big

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gaping problem. And you know what
it was. I was miserable most of

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that time because I was consuming life. I was taking from it. What

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I needed was to give to myself, of myself to it in order to

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be fulfilled. And I wasn't doing
that. That was the piece that was

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missing. I wasn't mattering, and
you were going, and inevitably you feel

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that tension. That tension we feel
is simply the biological markers of not fulfilling

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our function. Right like you're we
are built to be interconnected and contribute to

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one another. We're not built to
acquire and achieve for ourselves. So when

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we're not fulfilling that function, you
get all of these things, these like

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these indicators, the lights go off, the check engine light comes on,

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right, and you know you're not
you're actually not doing you're not using yourself

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the way you're meant to be used
and well exactly and you even go on

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to say that, which I what
made me think about this is you say

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how anti mattering destroys energy, undercut
self self were reduced to self esteem and

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can predict unhealthy stress, clinical anxiety, and depression. Well, you know,

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we have a major loneliness problem,
depression problem here all over the world,

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actually in a major opiate problem.
If we could just elevate mattering,

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just to smidge, I think it
would really make a big difference. Yeah.

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So, unfortunately, what's happened,
and this ties into your question about

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self esteem. What's happened in the
ninety nineties when the self esteem movement was

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popular, and I was a kid
who grew up in the nineties, and

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I remember going to assemblies that said
believe in yourself. And those assemblies were

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driven by research by sociologists that having
a sense of self worth was important.

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But what those researchers did not get
into, and they will admit this now,

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is they didn't get into the sources
of self esteem. And you can't

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believe in yourself. You can't have
a belief if your environment doesn't provide you

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evidence of that belief. Yeah,
beliefs to be upheld require our environment giving

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us the real evidence of our belief. So self esteem is the belief in

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oneself and one's worth. But I
just can't sit here on my own and

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say all right, I'm gonna believe
in myself and go do that because that

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can be detached from reality. What's
more beneficial to develop self esteem is to

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be in relationships in which people give
us the real evidence of how we are

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significant, the real evidence of how
we are unique, the real evidence of

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the impact we make. And that's
why true self esteem is a lagging indicator

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of mattering, of experiencing mattering from
someone else. So I'm glad you brought

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that up. Yeah, you remind
me, Zach. It's it's been an

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interesting journey of my own, as
you know, self discovery and self development.

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But in my own programs, one
of the things that I like to

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teach, especially for managers that's new
managers, Destinia directors, is to be

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able to literally give feedback to someone
in a way that shows them that they

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aren't to all. You're saying that
they're seen, that they are appreciated,

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that their uniqueness is fully registered and
and and and and displayed back to them,

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and the way that you know that
you've delivered that really, really strongly

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and effectively, is what Zach,
Oh, like you're asking what, yeah

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if The way that you know if
you've delivered that extremely effectively to the other

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person is when the person is when
the person cries, yeah, right,

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when they get moved, when they
get yeah, they get moved to tears

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because they feel seen to their soul
is so beautiful and so powerful, and

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people can learn to do that.
You teach it, I teach it,

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and it's so important and compelling and
it's so accessible. Right, how many

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how many listeners say thank you are
a good job to people every day most

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of us. That really doesn't do
much. I'm glad you're doing it,

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but it really psychologically doesn't do much. But when we can say, hey,

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here's when and where this happened.
Here is what you actually did.

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Here are the unique gifts that I
noticed, and here's the impact that it

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had on me and had on other
people, that's where you developed the emotion.

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Or when you are giving critical feedback. A lot of people think,

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Zach, you know, you talk
about mattering, but critique is so important

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and it is the problem is when
we critique before we care. Yeah,

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oh, that is the problem because
one of the biggest predictors of trust is

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feeling cared for by the person that
I'm supposed to trust. In fact,

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a lot of research says if that's
not present, then trust is almost impossible.

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So I am not going to trust
your feedback if I don't first feel

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cared for by you. A special
officer once told me, special Forces officer

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responsible for training in like really deadly
situation, said Zach, the key ingredient

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for a lethal unit, high performing
unit behind enemy lines is not toughness,

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it's love. People will not sacrifice
for me if I don't know their kids'

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names. People will not People will
not go the extra mile for me if

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I don't know their struggles and offer
help along the way. And that practice

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of caring is so important. So
when you're giving critical feedback, you can

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say, hey, here's the situation. Here is the behaviors, here's the

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impact in an act. But hey, here are the strengths I know you

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have. Here are some alternative behaviors. Here is the alternative impact that you

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could have on people. I want
that for you, right, And I

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think this is so important for anybody
who might be sort of sitting out here

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a bit on the naysayer front,
going, yeah, this mattering stuff sounds

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really nice, but you know,
at the end of the day, we've

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got to produce results, right,
you do, And what I would say

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and I know you'll echo, this
is when we demonstrate that we care for

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someone, when we do give them
constructive feedback. We can literally say,

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you know, almost anything to that
person and they will receive it as long

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as they understand we care about them
and we're delivering this because we care about

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them and because we know that they
can do and be. More absolutely,

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I mean, think about the best
teachers you've had, the best coaches you've

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had, the best leaders that you
had. It all comes down to caring.

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In fact, there's some research in
a great book. It's about what

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really predicts toughness, and there's some
research on NBA coaches and their players,

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and they were looking at the most
resilient, high performing teams and it was

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the NBA coaches that fostered inclusion,
safety, that connected and knew each player's

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name, that texted their players to
let them know they were doing a lineup

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change and asking their opinion on it
before they did it. That cultivated toughness.

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And resilience, not the people that
were out there telling people to be

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off and running them into the ground. Again, you can't critique before you

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care completely inlign with that. Okay, So we've been speaking really on sort

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of a conceptual ideological format. Now
I want to get into sort of the

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how to the application piece of this, which you do beautifully and so important

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for people to be able to walk
away today and put the stuff to work.

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So you talk about, you know, how we can actually counteract these

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experiences of anti mattering, that we
have to root out these insidious moments and

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consciously work to create experiences of mattering. So let's talk a little bit about

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what that looks like in the workplace, which is kind of give us a

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couple of examples, right, So
let's look at the noticing, affirming and

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needing framework the noticing people. The
first thing is make sure that you create

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the space to actually see people right. Research finds our attention spans are down

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twenty five percent in general in the
last decade. In two thousand and four,

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you got about two minutes of undivided
attention on a task. Now you

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00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:04.319
get an average about forty seven seconds. The same is true with people.

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So when we are interacting with people, if we don't create the space to

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slow down, give ourselves the opportunity
to notice and see them, then seeing

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them will be impossible. It won't
be possible to see people. So we

408
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:21.160
have to slow down and learn how
to pay attention again. One way to

409
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.240
do that is to ask better questions. Yeah, how are you? As

410
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:30.440
a greeting, it's not a question
anymore? Right? So I observe leaders

411
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.400
all the time, and here's how
most leaders start their meetings. How's everybody

412
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:40.240
doing? Good? Can you imagine
if you weren't good? Not me right,

413
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:42.759
you wouldn't You would have raised your
hand and say that. Or people

414
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:45.880
say hey, how are you?
How's everybody doing? And there's ten people

415
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.880
in the room, and then they
just go on with the agenda. But

416
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:53.160
if you ask, hey, at
least, what is your attention today?

417
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:56.960
What have you been thinking most about
today? What have you been working on

418
00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:02.000
today? What have you been struggling
with today? Can I help we get

419
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.279
the data to see people? So
that's something you can do right now,

420
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:08.119
ask better questions. The FedEx driver
that comes and drops off your package,

421
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.599
instead of just saying hey, thanks, you could say hey, what's your

422
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:15.640
name again? How many stops have
you had today? How are you doing,

423
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:21.480
how's the work going? It like
just those little moments can make a

424
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:26.680
big difference. So create space to
check in, ask better questions. And

425
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.039
then the other piece I would say
is that use proactive compassion. What I

426
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:34.559
mean by that is that empathy is
like understanding what someone's going through their struggle,

427
00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:38.160
but compassion is offering an action to
alleviate that struggle. One of the

428
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:45.519
things I help leaders do is I
help them actually map out the anticipated struggles

429
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.599
they see their people having in the
next quarter, next couple weeks, and

430
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.559
what then I have them write down
what signs they should be looking for.

431
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.480
But then what's really powerful is I
have them write down their resources and actions

432
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:02.079
they can take to alleviate that struggle. What's great, what's powerful about that

433
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:07.920
practice is that a it helps people
be a noticer already in the practice.

434
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:13.480
Part of that the process is the
point. But also what it does is

435
00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:20.759
it gives people the opportunity to see
where they might not be meeting people where

436
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:24.079
they need it. They might not
be meeting those struggles because so often people

437
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.839
say, oh, that's just our
industry, that's the way the quarter is,

438
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:30.359
once we get through this quarter will
be fine again. Like you said,

439
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:36.039
no, that's one that's one person's
only life. Yeah, you said

440
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:37.519
something in your first book that really
struck me. And then I'll say this

441
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:40.480
and we'll grab our last break.
I think you said something, and you

442
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:44.559
correct me because I know you have
it. But this is just from memories

443
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:45.920
act. This is how I'm just
serving. I didn't look this up before

444
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:50.759
we got on the program. You
said something like a manager's job is to

445
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:54.039
improve the quality of forty percent of
a person's life. Yeah, the chief

446
00:32:54.160 --> 00:33:00.000
job. Obviously they need to achieve
results. But again it's important to understand

447
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:02.880
and that if there's no human well
being, there are no results. Every

448
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:07.880
single result is mediated through a human
being, right, and human well being

449
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:14.400
is what creates the energy needed to
produce So every single lagging indicator is the

450
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.720
result of the leading indicator of how
a human feels. I love it.

451
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:21.799
On that note, let's let them
think about that. We'll just grab our

452
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:23.160
last break. I'm your host,
doctor e Les Cortes. We've been on

453
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:27.559
the air with doctor Zach mccurio.
He's an author, researcher, and consultant

454
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:32.480
specializing in purposeful leadership, meaningful work, and positive organizational psychology. We've been

455
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:37.960
talking a bit about just the import
of mattering and what leaders can do about

456
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:39.039
that in the workplace. Now,
after the break, we're going to get

457
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:44.279
into how can we actually help those
leaders become more caring and able to do

458
00:33:44.319 --> 00:34:01.960
this sort of thing. Stay what
we write back. Doctor Elise Cortes is

459
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:07.920
a management consultant specializing in meaning and
purpose. An inspirational speaker and author,

460
00:34:07.199 --> 00:34:13.679
she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and

461
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:17.679
meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,
performance, and commitment within the workforce.

462
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.960
To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please visit

463
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:27.639
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's
talk about how to get your employees working

464
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:37.440
on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach

465
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:40.440
our program today or to open a
conversation with Elise, send an email to

466
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:53.159
Elise alisee at elisecortes dot com.
Now back to working on purpose. Thanksteresting

467
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:55.400
with us, and welcome back to
working on Purpose. I'm your host,

468
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:00.199
doctor Elise Cortes. I mentioned in
the last break about my latest book called

469
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:02.559
The Great Revitalization. What I did
for you to accompany that is, I

470
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:07.159
created a three page self assessment that
you could download from my website to be

471
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.519
able to see the extent to which
your organization is meeting the discerning standards of

472
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:15.320
today's workforce. You can find it
at gustodashnow dot com if you're just joining

473
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:19.159
in the program. I guess to
Zach mccurio. He's the author of various

474
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.639
fantastic articles. I might say in
the book The Invisible Leader, transform your

475
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.599
life, work and organization with the
power of authentic purpose. So for this

476
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.920
last segment here, Zach, I
really want to get into the leaders themselves.

477
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:32.480
I mean, it's tough being a
leader. You know that you and

478
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:36.840
I both work with leaders, and
there's a lot of pressure on them,

479
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:38.960
and there's a lot of you know, wire leaders so bad and how come

480
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:43.920
they're not? Why don't they care
and whatever. So for this bit here,

481
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:45.840
I want to get into what's under
that for them and how we can

482
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:52.239
actually help our leaders do and utilize
these practices that you're putting forth. So

483
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:54.599
let's start there. You also talk
about there's no sugar of you know,

484
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:59.039
the be caring advice for leaders that
we need them to be more human and

485
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:02.840
care more. So first, let's
start with that, this notion of why

486
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:07.039
we're seeing so much conversation out there
about that need. Yeah, if I

487
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:13.119
were a leader, i'd be annoyed
by myself, you know, like,

488
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.960
hey, notice people affirm, people
show them that they're needed, and it's

489
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.480
like, yeah, I get it. But you know, as a McKinsey

490
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:22.639
study found, most managers are spending
about I think it was like thirty percent

491
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:27.559
of their time or so actually having
time to manage people. Yeah, and

492
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:31.320
the rest is on strategic plans or
other deliverables, strategic objectives, tactics,

493
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:35.239
other things that they need to deliver
to upper management. So one of the

494
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:38.239
problems, one of the big barriers
to caring is that our environments don't make

495
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:44.320
it possible to care. Right,
So, environment determines behavior, or it

496
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:50.440
makes behavior possible. If you're tracking
every minute of someone's day, if you're

497
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:53.800
in a hospital setting and you're starting
to do your rewards and incentives based on

498
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:58.320
efficiency how fast you get in and
out of a patient's room, and then

499
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:00.519
it's going to be very hard for
that clinician to stop and check in with

500
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:06.519
a nurse that they're working with.
So we have to look at our environment

501
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:10.039
and say, how does our environment
make it impossible to care? And how

502
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:14.960
can we reoptimize our environment to make
it possible for care. So that's a

503
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:21.639
huge one. The other one is
simply energy. Leader's energy. Attention and

504
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:29.440
energy are the leader's scarcest resources,
and so what are we asking leaders to

505
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:34.719
spend their energy on? And then
I think that the last key barrier,

506
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:38.280
and this one goes back to the
leader themselves. It's sometimes the courage to

507
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:44.360
care. Yeah, courage takes a
lot of energy. Sometimes you have to

508
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:49.400
take captive what you can control.
And some people may say, well,

509
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:51.880
Zach, I don't have a leader
that does this for me, And I

510
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:55.719
would say, do you do it
for them? If we're trying to create

511
00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:00.320
culture, culture is generated, it
is not prescribed form above. So think

512
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.079
about the interactions to the left of
you, to the right of you,

513
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:08.119
and above you, and are you
making sure people feel noticed, affirmed and

514
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:13.559
needed, Because what you'll find is
that there'll be a collective energy that comes

515
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:20.079
back to you if you create a
micro climate of optimizing these interactions. So

516
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.840
one thing as you're thinking about this
whole conversation is to not think about this

517
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:28.039
as some initiative or program. That's
what's great about it. It's simply about

518
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:31.559
optimizing the interactions and moments you already
have, and that should lessen the burden

519
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:35.039
a little bit. And where you
can say, hey, how can I

520
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:37.079
notice someone today? How can I
affirm them? How can I show them

521
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:39.480
they're needed in that next interaction?
It doesn't really take more time, It

522
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:45.039
takes better use of time and an
intentionality too. So you talk about calendaring

523
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:50.920
every week some time to check in
and connect with your team members, and

524
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:54.280
so what I do something similar like
you use the calendar for your own task.

525
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:59.599
It's an appointment you have with yourself
in this case, to be able

526
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.199
to extend care and connection to your
team. And you know, to your

527
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:07.440
point, if if an organization is
all about optimizing efficiency and effectiveness, that

528
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:12.599
they've eradicated the possibility that you can
actually be a caring leader, Well,

529
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:17.239
you've manufactured the problem in this organization, yes, right, And but you

530
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:21.679
can also, if you're that leader
in that system, find those moments,

531
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:27.000
yes, find those interactions. You
know. Elvis Presley once said when things

532
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.039
go wrong, don't go with them, right, you can. I love

533
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:36.320
that, right because like you can
find the moments that you can optimize to

534
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:37.760
show people around you that they feel
like they matter. And guess what,

535
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:43.920
the likelihood of your results being better
because of that will likely be higher.

536
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:45.320
What I see in organizations all the
time, and I work with a lot

537
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:49.920
of middle managers who are trying to
do the right thing and a system that

538
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:53.679
incentivizes them not to yes, and
they try to do the right thing.

539
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:58.280
But what happens is they implement this, they start instituting it, and then

540
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.159
someone always above goes, what are
you well doing over there? And that's

541
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:05.840
we can say, oh, let
me tell you, And that's how movements

542
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:08.679
can start. So you are more
powerful than you think, You have more

543
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:14.119
influence than you think. But research
also says we tend to under emphasize and

544
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:16.920
under emphasize our own impact. Yeah, I'm just going to go there,

545
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:21.039
totally go there. And you kind
of refer to that, and you're one

546
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:23.719
of your articles as a self esteem
problem. So and it's so interesting,

547
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:30.079
right, leaders oftentimes radically underestimate their
potency with their people. A word,

548
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:34.960
a look, or lack therap can
make such a difference, you know,

549
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:37.519
and so that the ripple effect that
that can be cast. And then on

550
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:39.920
the other side of that that I
want to treat here because you and I

551
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:45.719
both serve leaders, we both care
and nurture and develop leaders well. And

552
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:47.000
so you go on to say in
one of your articles, we can't expect

553
00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:52.679
leaders to care if they don't feel
cared for themselves. Yes, that's why

554
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:57.280
when I talk to employees, I
tell them, first thing, the best

555
00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:00.880
way to practice this is to do
all this for your leader. We spend

556
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:05.159
way too much time telling leaders what
they should be doing for employees, and

557
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:09.280
far far less time than I think
is enough on helping to create norms of

558
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:16.000
how employees treat their leaders. Because
to create communities of mattering, everybody has

559
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:21.119
to take responsibility. And that's actually
an empowering idea once peop will get over

560
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:22.800
the fear of it. Yeah,
I was just about to say that,

561
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:28.880
I love that there's agency in that, and you're activating the human spirit,

562
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:32.559
the contribution. And again, so
now we're giving value to other people like

563
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:36.880
you talk about. So I completely
agree with that. And the other thing

564
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:38.880
that I like to say with that
too is we can teach our leaders how

565
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:43.239
we want them to lead us.
If we want to have if we want

566
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:46.199
better more specific feedback and how we
can get better, or what we're doing

567
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:50.920
well, we can teach them how
to deliver that or tell them that that's

568
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:53.519
important. So I love what you're
distinguishing here, and it is a way

569
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:57.719
to help serve our leaders, right. We help teach them, we help

570
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:01.519
support them, and the leader gets
the data on what they can continue doing

571
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:05.440
when we notice them, affirm them
and show them that we need them.

572
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:07.079
Like if I go to my leader, if I were to poll, this

573
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.679
would be interesting and I'm going to
do this in the future. But if

574
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:14.840
I were to poll and ask them
how many how often do you get positive

575
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:21.400
feedback from your the people under your
care, I would be surprised if it's

576
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:24.800
very much. And that's got to
be difficult, right to not see the

577
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:30.159
evidence of your significance and only see
the evidence of where you don't quite measure

578
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:35.440
up to what someone's expecting. And
so again, it's impossible for anything to

579
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:38.800
matter to someone who doesn't believe that
they matter. And that's the same is

580
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:45.519
true with your leader in your organization. So before you bring your concern to

581
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:51.039
them. Does your leader know that
they matter to you? Oh? So,

582
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.199
Zach, this is so good,
This is so good. So you

583
00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:57.719
know, everyone listening to this,
you probably have somebody that you know,

584
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.760
you report to, whether you're you're
the boss, the owner, whatever it

585
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:06.320
is, there's somebody that's it's your
chief client or whatever it is. Have

586
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:08.360
you how often do you say,
you know what I really appreciate about you?

587
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:14.000
How often have you opened with a
conversation like that? So what I

588
00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:16.039
appreciate about this second? I didn't
want to miss the opportunity because we also

589
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:22.119
we want to be able to empower, embolden strength, and encourage leaders to

590
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:28.039
do what you're putting forth. So
this is essential commentary essential because this is

591
00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:32.320
actually on leadership practice is to empower
your people to be active participants in the

592
00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:37.639
culture they say they want instead of
passive recipients of it, right, right,

593
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:40.960
And that's that is that is what
a good leader does, is they

594
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:45.239
show them that this is this is
bi directional. Culture is not prescribed by

595
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:51.559
role. It's developed through relationships with
one another m HM. And that's a

596
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.840
powerful charge and it takes the author
It takes a lot of the burden off

597
00:43:54.880 --> 00:44:00.559
of the leader, that culture is
shared. Yeah, not just not just

598
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:05.480
I'm just responsible for it. Yeah, we're in this together, right,

599
00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:08.000
Yeah, it creates that sense of
common purpose. Yeah, yes, I

600
00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:10.920
love all that we all want.
First exactly, I will say, if

601
00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:15.960
there are five words you can use
that are incredibly powerful. So we've talked

602
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.960
about some practices with noticing, talked
about some practice with affirming positive feedback,

603
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:23.119
but for needing people like say these
five words. If it wasn't for you

604
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:28.480
to somebody to your leader, Hey, I just want to let you know,

605
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:31.000
like this week, if it wasn't
for you, this would have never

606
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:35.920
happened. And see what happens.
You will see the power of a moment

607
00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:37.880
of matter. And if you say
those five words. Yeah. And the

608
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.679
other thing along those lines that I
like about what you say in your articles

609
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.800
and completely aligned with two is to
tell people when they're not around that you

610
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:47.800
miss them, You noticed that they
weren't there. Gosh, we really needed

611
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:52.480
you at the strategy meeting yesterday.
Man, you're the person that always brings

612
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.599
the great ideas, and man,
it was flat without you exactly, or

613
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:00.119
someone was absent, right, or
someone was on leave. And I've actually

614
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:06.679
spoken to this about a company who
helps organizations manage maternity leave. And I've

615
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:08.480
heard this from working mothers all the
time, where they come back into the

616
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:14.119
workforce and people treat them like,
oh, it's you know, I wish

617
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:17.519
you wish you had never left,
But they don't say anything about what happened

618
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:21.920
during the time they were gone.
So like little things like saying, hey,

619
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:24.840
you know, we had this meeting
yesterday and there was this thought,

620
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:29.000
this idea that came up made me
think about you. You're really good at

621
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.719
thinking through these things. I wanted
to run it by you. You know,

622
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:37.880
just that to be thought about huge
is so powerful instead of being forgotten,

623
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:43.039
because when people recognize the significance of
their absence, they are also intern

624
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:46.480
recognizing the significance of their presence.
So true instead of just saying like,

625
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:49.639
oh, I hope you had a
nice vacation. That was great, or

626
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:52.960
you know, we got it,
we got everything taken care of while you're

627
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:55.960
gone. That that's a nice thing
to say. I might alleviate pressure if

628
00:45:55.960 --> 00:46:00.000
someone goes on vacation, but it
does lead people to think, oh,

629
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:07.360
well, I guess I'm replaceable.
Yeah yeah, and also invisible, Okay,

630
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:08.960
we're almost at a time. Two
more questions. I got to know

631
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:13.639
when the next book is coming out
and what it's generally about, because you'll

632
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:17.320
have to come back and talk about
that too. Well, we're finalizing a

633
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:22.320
publisher right now, but it's coming
out in spring twenty twenty five, okay,

634
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:27.679
And it's all about how mattering comes
first, how leaders can fill the

635
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:30.800
human need for significance. I love
it. Well, you know you can

636
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:34.199
run, but again, hid and
I'm a pretty fast runner, so I'm

637
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:37.800
going to come get you and bring
you back. So you know, this

638
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:40.639
show is listened to people around the
world, and they care about their experience

639
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:44.599
of work. They care about elevating
for their people. Many of them are

640
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:46.559
interested in doing business a betters in
the world along the way. What would

641
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:51.400
you like to leave them with today? It starts with your next interaction.

642
00:46:52.920 --> 00:47:00.440
Great leadership is really about optimizing interactions. Sounds good to me, beautiful incredible

643
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:02.440
moments of life than the moments of
life. I'm actually co authoring a book

644
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:07.519
about that myself. So I love
fun fun Zach. It is really really

645
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:09.920
amazing to have you come back on
the show again. I am a fan

646
00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:14.239
of your work. You are making
a difference in the world. You are

647
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.679
elevating humanity, you are elevating the
experience of work, and I'm really happy

648
00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:20.599
to know you and Katy as a
friend. You too, Thanks Elise.

649
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:23.239
You're welcome. Listeners and viewers.
You'll learn more about this amazing man,

650
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:28.360
Zach mccurio, the work that he
does in organizations, his book or articles.

651
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:31.039
You can start by visiting his website. It's Zach mccurio dot com.

652
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:36.719
Let me spell that for you,
Zach z A C H. Mccurio is

653
00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:40.960
me E R c u are io
Zach mccurio dot com. Last week,

654
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.599
you've missed the live show, you
can always catch it if you recorded podcast.

655
00:47:44.679 --> 00:47:47.199
We're on the air with Susan Ford
Collins, an executive coach, author

656
00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:51.519
and speaker. She's the creator of
the Technology of Success, in which she

657
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:55.440
teaches ten critical skills she learned from
highly successful people. She has authored several

658
00:47:55.480 --> 00:48:00.360
books, including her latest blur Clear
The Way Ahead Even in the Worst Times,

659
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:02.000
which we talked about on the program, along with some of the ten

660
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:07.039
skills she teaches. Was an incredibly
encouraging, energizing and illuminating conversation. She's

661
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:10.679
a little spitfire. Next week We'll
be on the air with William van der

662
00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:15.800
Blowman, who has run an executive
search and recruiting firm for years and learned

663
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:19.400
ten data driven habits that separate the
best leaders from the rest. We'll be

664
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:22.320
talking about these habits, which he
writes about in his book Be the Unicorn.

665
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:25.559
See you there and remember work as
one of the best adventures and means

666
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:30.039
of realizing her potential and making the
impact with Crave. So let's work on

667
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:36.480
Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this
week's program. Be sure to tune into

668
00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:39.719
Working on Purpose featuring your host,
doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W

669
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:45.159
four C. Why Together We'll create
a world where business operates conscientiously, Leadership

670
00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:50.639
inspires and passion performance, and employees
are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

671
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.480
and purpose they crave. See you
there, Let's work on Purpose.