Right Fit: The Answer to Making Work Less Work

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hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY

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Radio. What's Working on Purpose?
Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer

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to this question. People ache for
meaning and purpose at work, to contribute

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their talents passionately and know their lives
really matter. They crave being part of

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an organization that inspires them and helps
them grow into realizing their highest potential.

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Business can be such a force for
good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance
and inspiration to help usher in this world

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we all want Working on Purpose.
Now, here's your host, Doctor Relise

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Cortes. Welcome back to the Working
at Purpose program. Great to have you,

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Thanks for tuning again this week.
This program has been brought to you

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since February of twenty fifteen with great
pride and passion. I'm your host,

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doctor Elise Cortes. If we've not
met before, I'm an organizational psychologist and

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loco therapist, speaker and author.
My team and I at Gusto Now help

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companies to enlive it and fortify their
operations by articulating their purpose and building inspirational

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leaders and cultures activated by meeting and
purpose to turn those companies from a flatline

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EKG to a vibrant destination workplace.
There, people are intrinsically motivated to perform

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with their best, can grow into
their fuller potential, and are committed to

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stay and dynamically dillerun the company's mission. You can learn more about us and

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how we can work together at gustodashnow
dot com and Elisecoortes dot com. Now

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getting into today's program, we have
with us doctor Andre Martin and entrepreneur,

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operating advisor, board member, organizational
psychologist and coach to top founders and C

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suite executives. He has held key
C level leadership roles dedicated to talent,

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employee engagement, leadership, development and
culture in some of the biggest consumer brands

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including Disney, Mars Incorporated, Nike, Target, and Google. He's the

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author of Wrong Fit, Right Fit, Why How We Work Matters More Than

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Ever, which we'll be talking about
on today's program. He hails from Portland,

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Oregon, though he's joining us today
from Los Angeles. Andre, Welcome

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to Working on Purpose at Last.
It's great to be here. Thanks for

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having me. You're so welcome.
I'm so happy to know you and learn

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from you. Look at this magnificent
thing you brought into the world, and

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you know, it's so cool.
Andre. I'm on the board of Conscious

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Capitalism here in Dallas, and one
of the members was saying something and we're

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having a conversation, and I forget
what he said, but I said,

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oh my gosh, I have Andre
coming on my show this next week.

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He goes, I know that guy. I've been following him for years.

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I just got his book. So
you're getting around, Andre, you're getting

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around. Hey, Well, I
got a cause that matters to me.

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It's easy to talk about it when
you know you believe in the content.

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I totally get that. Well,
that is the first question I wanted to

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ask you. You know, you
could have chosen lots of things ondre.

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You could be architecture, you know, it could have been marketing, it

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could have been accounting, but you
chose, you know, organizational psychology and

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people. Why Well, at least
for me, it starts way way back.

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So I grew up in the Ozark
Mountains. I was the middle son

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of two college professors, and my
parents decided to teach a college that gave

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rule first generation youth a chance to
go to college and get a debt free

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education. So they were first from
their family to go to college and they

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could walk out with all the opportunity
and possibility in the world and none of

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the debt. And I just remember
growing up in that environment thinking education is

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the greatest equalizer on earth. And
that led me to organizational psychology, which

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has then led me to this amazing
career in really helping talent to grow faster

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than their companies that they're part of, which means we all win in the

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end. It's wonderful and you have
a very impressive career. And we must

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also talk about this little fun title
that I found on LinkedIn. I see

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it here on the stream in residence
at joyful. What is that? Yes,

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so joyful is a creative agency.
So think about your best marketing and

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ad firms, and they turn that
capability towards the internal company. And basically

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they exist to help make work more
joyful, to help us talk about purpose

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and possibility and give people the truth
about values and stories of great people doing

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great things. So as we come
to work, which you know, at

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least like we will spend thirteen point
five years of our adult lives at work,

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that's secondly to sleep, and so
they're just on this mission to make

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those years a little bit better,
a little bit more joyful. And I

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join them to kind of do the
strategy side of that work for them.

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Sounds just right up both of our
allies. I love that, Okay,

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Well, as I think you probably
have figured out now by now, I

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do read my guestbooks cover to cover, and then as I'm a researcher as

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well, so that's part of the
way that I keep writing my own books.

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And so I was very intrigued to
notice that you said that you began

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writing this book with the intention of
writing about culture, but then you realized

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in your research interviews that this wasn't
what we were talking about. That's not

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what people were really addressing. Yeah, so I originally got approached to write

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a book on and the subject was
very definitive. You know, what does

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the word culture mean in this new
world of work post COVID? And I

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did what every researcher would do,
at least I hope most is I went

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out to everyone of my network that
I respected, and I started asking these

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questions about, hey, what makes
a great place to work? And I

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think two things happened really quickly at
least that sort of changed the trajectory of

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the book. The first one was
that there wasn't a definitive set of best

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practices. Yeah right, So,
like I was finding this, like,

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what was really interesting that this person
about culture didn't come up with this person

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The things that mattered here didn't matter
over there. And then the second thing

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that happened is people started talking less
about values and product and brands and more

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about just how it might feel to
walk into a place on a random,

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you know, Tuesday afternoon in March. And that had me thinking, Hey,

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maybe the question isn't good or bad
culture. Maybe the question isn't toxic

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or engaging environments. Maybe it's really
about this idea of how much does the

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way a company works match my preferences? How much does that way of working

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put me in a place where I
can do the best work of my lives.

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And once I had that realization,
that just started rolling. Hm.

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I get that, you know well. From my PhD, which is in

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human development I did for my dissertation
research, I wanted to understand how people

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experienced meaning in their work and how
their work related to their sense of self

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or identity. So I found these
five modes of engagement at the time,

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and one of them was called resonant. It's just kind of like that natural,

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easy hand in glove fit that you're
talking about. So I I really

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get what you've what you what you're
doing here. There's also self expressive,

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detached, you know, conflicted.
So it was so so I really got

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what you were doing. And so
for our readers, our listeners and viewers,

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we haven't yet read your book,
then maybe now is a good time

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for you to actually describe what do
you actually mean by fit? Your definition?

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Yeah, so the definition of fit
in this in this context was really

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an authentic and deep dedication to a
way a company works every day. And

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so I always use the interviews right, there were some just fascinating quotes in

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the interviews that sort of sum up
what fit means. And for those who

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had right fit, they described it
as like I just felt more like myself

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more days at work. Other people
described it is that we were doing hard

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things, but the hard things weren't
hard to do. You know another example,

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and I love this is you know
this was a marketing director creative who

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talked about this idea of when I
had right fit, I just got to

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practice my craft. Yeah, all
my energy was going to the thing I

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was really good at, not to
all the coordination and tax that happens in

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work when you're just trying to figure
out how a system works day to day.

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And I think on the wrong fit
side, these were the most cathartic

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conversations. They were the most poignant
conversations because they would say things like,

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when I'm in a wrong fit,
it felt I was getting punched in the

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face a different way every single day. It felt like everyone had a secret

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decode to ring the success except for
me. And in the end, every

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one of those stories resulted in someone
saying to me, Hey, that moment

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in my career when I is the
one where I felt least competent. I

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felt least competent, and it bled
into every other area of my life.

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And so those interviews, everybody had
them. There wasn't a person I talked

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to didn't have one of those work
experiences, and they stay with us.

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We hold on to them because in
the end, the organizations are essentially telling

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us we're not good enough, when
in fact it didn't have anything to do

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with that totally competent. We just
weren't able to show it because the system

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didn't make sense to us in the
way that it did other people. Oh,

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I know that we're doing. We're
rowing in the same boat, Andrea.

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But I just want to I want
to create workplaces where it's they're playgrounds

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of life, where people literally come
alive, they can realize their best.

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And you've done You've done that.
If you said that, the examples you

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gave from Mars, we're just we're
so alluring, Andrea, so cool what

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you guys all got to do there? And if they do exist, we

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just need more of them. They
do exist. They do exist, And

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the thing is is two things happen
right on one side. They're really hard

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to find because the interviewing process is
just a giant marketing machine, right.

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It's geared to get us to say
yes to something regardless of whether or not

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we want them. It's like it's
like the equivalent of shopping in the cereal

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aisle without knowing what kind of cereal
you want. Yeah, yeah, inherently

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are going to choose something that may
not be what you want, but it's

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just the most attractive thing out there. I think the second thing that happens

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for me in this conversation is that
when we have it, when we have

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right fit, when it really makes
sense, we often fail to resp it.

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We often fail to respect that everything
is actually working and that's okay,

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yeah, and we fail to see
how much follow on ripple effect that has

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in our lives. Oh two things, Andre. So, one of the

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things that you you have in your
book, I forget exactly what it was.

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I didn't put it as part of
our of our conversation here, but

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it was something about how today we
are confronted with this notion of having it's

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the what I call the buffet of
life. There's so many choices that people

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think that they're always looking for the
next, the next, the next,

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even while there's there there there might
be in a they might be in a

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good place and a good right fit, but they're still thinking about the next

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and what else is there. Yeah, we have this like endearing fomo,

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like the fear of missing out.
And this is one of the drawbacks of

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having such a connected culture is that
I can go on the Internet at any

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time. I can find someone who
has the same experience as me, who's

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doing the same job as me,
who might even look and feel the way

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that I look and feel, except
they're different on one area. Their life

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looks awesome. And the thing we
forget is that we're only seeing one percent

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of it, and that one percent
is highly curated, right, But I

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think it's created this sort of really
detrimental quality in all of us that we're

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infinitely browsing. Yeah, that was
all. Yes, we're always on the

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lookout for something new, something different, something better, And the result of

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that, at least is that I
don't think we're actually committing to anything at

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a deep level, right, And
that's one of the places where we just

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end up unlocking ourselves from things that
could be great experiences too early because we

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have this spear missing out. Yeah, I think that's so worth talking about

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in the showcasing. And then on
the other side of that, there's a

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stat that you have in your book
that blew me away, Andrea, and

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that was you said, somewhere in
there you correct me if I don't have

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this quite right. Yep. When
talent is a in a right fit place

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and they can really bring their craft, they can they can outperform their appears

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by eight hundred percent or something like
that. That is eight hundred percent.

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That is the stat and you'll see
a lot of research that backs that up.

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And I think what you know,
what it boils down to, in

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just the simplest of terms, is
that you're getting discretionary effort right so right

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now, dis Yeah. And the
thing we don't realize the least, and

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I think this might be one of
the most profound lessons I've had since publishing

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the book, is is that creative
energy is always flowing. It's always flowing,

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Like, don't pretend for a second
that you're ever blocked. The thing

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that's happening to us is that often
when we're in these wrong fit experiences,

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we're in these places that just don't
work for us, our creative energy is

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going to context and the coordination of
work, not to our craft, not

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to the thing we're trying to get
better at. And I think in that

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that's what happens. Is is hey, all things being equal, it's the

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same talent with the same capability.
The person that's performing eight hundred percent more

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just has more of their creative energy
flowing, and so they're getting better while

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we're actually standing still or even worse
yet getting worse at what we're supposed to

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be best in the world at.
Right. Oh, it's just this is

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so instance. Work is such a
profoundly important part of life. As you

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say, I mean not just from
from the vantage point of the time that

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we spend, but just what does
it do for our sense of self and

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how we feel about ourselves and our
impact and how we're, how we're how

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we feel we matter. It's just
huge. So so then I want to

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go into this is interesting. I
thought I could really relate to it.

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I found myself going through my own
back history of the different kinds and three

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dimensions that you mentioned here the right
fit inside of a company, And so

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I thought that was interesting if you
talk a little bit about those characteristics in

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the three different ways that you talk
about fit or nonfit. Yeah, So

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there are three basic concentric circles around
this idea fit. The first one is

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how does a company work and what
does it value? Right that that matters?

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I mean, you know, companies
are distinct, they have very different

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ways of working. And then the
other two are really about the individual who's

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a part of the company. On
one side, it's who am I?

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What are all the characteristics, experiences, values that make me unique? And

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on the other side, it's how
do I like to work? How do

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I like to set strategy, solve
problems, manage conflict? How do I

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want to be developed? How do
I want to get feedback? How do

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I like to gather and socialize?
What's my relationship with time? Like all

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those things that are about how I
can get work done. The more all

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of that matches, the more you
have right fit. Yeah. The less

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that those things are there on any
factor, the more you're going to struggle.

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In. The metaphor we use in
the book is it's going to feel

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like you're writing with your non dominant
hand every day you can do it,

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you will have decent quality. It's
going to be more stressful, more frustrating.

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You're going to see lower and lower
levels of productivity over time because of

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the effort you have to put in
to do it, and you're never going

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to be good as good as if
you were able to write with your dominant

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hand every single day. Yeah,
and by the way, I mean my

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handwriting my dominant has horrible. So
dominant is just going to be just you

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know, just don't even bother.
But the other thing that I found myself

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gravitating to with that regard is you
talk about, you know, three kinds

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of misalignments. The total mismatch,
right, so where the company does not

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value who the talent is or how
they prefer to work. I mean,

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I'm trying to think if I've ever
experienced that. And then there's the person

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mismatch. The company values the way
the talent works but doesn't value who they

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are as a person. I think
I've experienced that, and then the way

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of working mismatch, So the company
values who the talent is but doesn't value

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how the talent prefers to work.
I have totally experienced that. Sure,

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you know, those mismatches are I
think super helpful to people who are in

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the process of assessing where they are. And you know, and the mismatch

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is interesting, right, The mismatch
we experience most is often that ways of

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working, but it's subtle, it's
nuanced. We can't really touch it or

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feel it because ways of working are
kind of ethereal and they're sort of built

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in and they're in the fabric.
And so we end up both organizations and

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talent blaming performance. We blame skill
and experience and ability, and it's like,

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that's not what it is. Yeah, it's just not what it is.

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And I remember talking to me.
I was talking to CEOs and the

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interviews who were telling me stories of
moments in their career twenty years ago that

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they were still carrying with them that
were wrong fit. But they ended up

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personalizing those the point that they thought
was about them. And so our tendency

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is then, at least all we
try to do is we try to work

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harder, right, and in working
harder, we yard sale the things about

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our life that matter most, which
is our family, our friends, our

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community, our hobbies, all the
things that happen outside of work. And

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then it just starts that vicious cycle
that ends us in a place of at

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worst not feeling very confident or good. Every day burnout you know at even

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worse is you know, we get
into mental health crisises, which we're seeing

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more and more of these days.
M h ooh on that. No,

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let's take our first break, your
host, doctor Release Cortes. We run

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near the doctor Andre Martin, the
author of Wrong Fit, Right Fit?

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How? Why how we worked?
Sorry? Why how we work? Matters

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more than ever? So as we
go in this break, listeners and viewers,

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why don't you just think about that
for a second, in terms of

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person mismatch, way of working mismatch, or total mismatch, if you've ever

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experienced that. We'll be right back. Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant

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specializing in meaning and purpose. An
inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

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visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused

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cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn

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more or to invite a lease to
speak to your organization, please visit her

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00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:03.119
at Eliscortes dot com. Let's talk
about how to get your employees working on

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00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:12.319
purpose. This is working on purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes to reach our program

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00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.799
today, or to open a conversation
with Elise, send an email to a

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00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:29.000
lease Alisee at Elisecortes dot com.
Now back to working on Purpose. Thanks

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for staying with us and welcome back
to working on Purpose. I'm your host,

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doctor Elise Cortes, as I too, am dedicated to creating a world

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where people can realize the potential at
work and are led by inspirational leaders that

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help them find and contribute their greatness
and we do business a betters in the

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world. I keep writing my own
books, so my last one came out

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in March of twenty twenty three.
It's called a Great Revitalization How activating meeting

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and purpose can radically enliven your business. And I wrote it to help you

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leaders understand the lay of today's land
of what does talent want? And then

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I give you twenty two best prectases
to be able to fold into your culture

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to help create that. You can
it on Amazon or check it out on

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00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.960
my at least quorretes dot com site
if you are just joining me today.

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My guest is doctor Andre Martin.
He's an entrepreneur, operating advisor, board

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member, organizational psychologist and coach to
top founders and C suite executives. He

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has held key C level leadership roles
dedicated to talent, employee engagement, leadership

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development, and culture in some of
the biggest consumer brands including Disney, Mars

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Incorporated, Nike, Target, and
Google. Pretty good lineup. So,

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so, so what I want to
do next here, Andre is I want

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to talk a little bit about what
you hinted at before. So I think

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there's two parts of the equation.
Obviously the person part of the the company

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part. One of the things I
really like about your book. In fact,

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I just picked up I don't do
a lot of one on one coaching

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anymore, but I just picked up
a new coaching client and I told her

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go buy his book because it is
chock full of worksheets that will help people

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to better understand their own drivers,
their values and what it is they really

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really want a need from it,
from a from a job and from a

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career. So it's just fantastic,
Andre. So starting there, you know,

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just the no of I loved what
you create. What you talked about

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is are you a company, craft
or a cause? Right there? That

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was cool. So can we start
with that on the individual side? Sure,

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Lise I mean, I think those
excursions were built to really help people

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do some deep self reflection before they
get into the marketing machine of trying to

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figure out what job to go.
And that was one of my favorite sort

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of pieces of the book was,
you know, this idea of starting to

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see careers as a number of different
paths you can take and depending on how

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what kind of career you're building,
it sort of dictates how you manage that

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career. And we kind of bucket
into three areas. The first one is

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are you of company? Now,
you know these individuals, at least because

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they stayed a company for twenty twenty
five years, they live and breathe the

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brand and the product. They are
fanatics right as consumers, and they are

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so committed to the company that they
literally could not see themselves working anywhere else.

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Well, if you're that person,
you know one of the things you

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have to do with your career is
realize that your greatest asset is going to

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be the breadth of what you know
about how that company makes money and also

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the strength of your strong and weak
network across the entire organization. And so

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you have to build a career that
allows you to get that breadth, which

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means you can't sit in a single
function, you can't stay in a single

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team. And so the more you
can sort of connect to the entire supply

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chain, you know, from the
beginning to the end of the product,

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the more utility you have and the
richer your careers over time, the more

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important you will be to that company. Different from someone who's of craft,

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and I think you and I are
both of craft probably may be caused.

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But the crafts men and women in
the world, they are your artisans.

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They are the ones that are so
deep in an area that all they want

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to do is work on this singular
part of this really big and complex problem,

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and they spend their whole career trying
to get depth of thought and experience.

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And to do that, you have
to realize that the likelihood being able

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to become of craft and stay in
a company for your whole career is probably

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zero, right, because part of
what you have to do is you have

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to practice that craft in as many
different contexts as you can, and so

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it demands that you sort of spend
some time in a lot of systems in

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order to pick up all the nuances
in different practices. And then the last

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sort of career that I came into
contact was these people who are of cause

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right literally, And I think you've
shifted that way. I think because of

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the book. I'm shifting That way
is you are so committed to solving a

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great injustice in the world or fixing
a big problem that it's all you think

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about, right, And if you
have that career, you sort of have

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to move to where the action is. You have to be around the people

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who are doing the most progressive work. You have to be around the places

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that are on the edge, and
that probably means you have to follow the

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energy. Right. So I'll give
you an example. Right, Let's say

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that I cared I'm getting ready to
to make a move down to California.

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Let's say I cared about the ocean. Right. I can't do my best

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work on cause from southern Missouri and
the Ozark Mountains, right, Right,

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So you have to get to a
coast of body water. And that's the

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same with anyone who's got a big
causes. You need to be in the

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middle of the action. And so
these three types of careers. I watch

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people that want to try to have
all three not say it's impossible, that's

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the purple unicorn of careers, or
they have yet to define what they are

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and therefore they make choices on very
short term, pretty meaningless criteria and they

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end up feeling less and less satisfied
over time. Yeah. Yeah, so,

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Crisp, I think that helps our
listeners and viewers really think about that

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for themselves. And you're right.
I did identify myself as strongly craft which

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is why I read a book cover
to cover and preparation for this conversation each

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week. That's part of my research, my ongoing study, my ongoing crafting.

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Yeah, and you're right. I
am absolutely think both of us are

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working toward that cause and that we
do want to help create a world where

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they can more people can experience,
you know, as you say, growing

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what you said before, growing faster
than their company. Yep, I want

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that for people. I want that. So I love what you're doing.

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This is so cool, Andre,
so happy to share you with people.

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Yeah, you're wanting to meet you
too, Yeah, yeah, I mean

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this is the coolest thing. And
I've been hosting the show for nine years

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and ninety eight percent of my guests
come to me through a public relations person

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and says, do you want to
have this person on my show, I

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00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:26.880
wouldn't otherwise have a reason to meet
you. Andre. Yeah, it's amazing,

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it's amazing, and now we're going
to be connected forever. And I've

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got another fellow cause person out there
in the world trying to trying to make

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work a little bit less work,
right, absolutely, And let me just

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give you a fair warning. I
have been known to show open people's doorsteps

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who've been on my show before.
So just be ready, amazing, come

371
00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:48.039
to see me on the beach.
I'll be there. I'll be there.

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Okay. So we've been talking a
little bit about just, you know,

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helping people get really clear, radically
clear, if you will, about what

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they really want from their work experience
and how they prefer to work. So

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so so good. But on the
other side of that is you say so

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eloquently and I can only imagine what
you saw in your career. We see

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organizations, companies putting their very very
very best, but what they think is

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their best forward, their aspirational sell
forward on their career websites and their interviews

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and everybody's but it's not real,
and so they're giving this false view of

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what it's like to actually work here, and that's a huge part of the

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problem you identified your book. I
completely see that. Yeah, yeah,

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I'll start with there's a really good
piece of research out of MIT and Culture

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five hundred that sort of looked at
this difference between aspirational values the things that

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leaders stand up and say or they
say on their care sites, from the

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reality that employees feel every day.
And they did it via looking at the

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communication of the leaders. What words
did they use most often? That'll tell

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you what they value, and then
they rank order those values, and then

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00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:57.359
they compare that set of values to
the experiences that employees were showcasing on employee

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review sites, and they found zero
correlational lease. Well, amongst really good

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00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:06.240
companies, the aspirational values that we
talked about, we're not lived in the

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00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.519
day to day experience and you know, employees we're having And so I think

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that's the first place to start is
get really clear about how you work today.

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How's it going to feel to the
person that takes the job and lands

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in their job. Because right now
we have three different versions of a company.

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We have the aspirational version that we're
sharing during recruiting. You know,

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00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:32.880
it's all sunshine and puppy dogs and
great, you know. Days, then

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you have the version you see on
the first day you get there. This

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00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:37.240
is the onboarding orientation. You get
the best leaders, you get the most

399
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.920
impactful stories about the companies a little
bit more true. But then you land

400
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:45.039
in the third version of the company, which is where you're going to work

401
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.279
every day, and it feels vastly
different than what you bought. And in

402
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.400
there, we're just destroying engagement because
think about it, right, every time

403
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:56.279
you've taken a job, and I'm
sure you're like me, is I'm sitting

404
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:59.799
there the night before, talking to
my wife or my mom or my best

405
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.759
and I'm nothing but pure excitement about
exactly it, yep. And then I

406
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.839
get there and because it doesn't live
up to the expectation that was set by

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00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:11.279
the company, it just chips away
at my engagement every single day instead of

408
00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:15.640
it ticking up, which is what
should be happening for people, right m

409
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:18.920
hm, you know. Yeah,
So two things on that I have to

410
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.279
tell you. I am extremely proud. So I started my humano capital career

411
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.799
almost exactly twenty five years ago in
Portland sorry, Seattle, in recruiting,

412
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:33.079
and I was recruiting first as a
as a staffing person, and then TEA

413
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.119
Mobile haired me as a consultant to
develop the recruiting in house. And I

414
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.920
can tell you that even today there
are a couple of people that I placed

415
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.119
there twenty five years ago there's still
at T Mobile, and several of them

416
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:48.079
were there for fifteen years, twenty
years or whatever. And I believe that

417
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.000
part of that is because I did
show the real story. Look, you

418
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.200
know, we have some really really
ugly warts, and you have some fantastic

419
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.960
talents to be able to help us
address those words you want to come play,

420
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.599
you know. Yeah, And I
love that, and you say that

421
00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:04.119
in the book so beautifully too,
is if you can really show, you

422
00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.680
know, the this is who we
are, and this is where we're trying

423
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.480
to get to. It looks like
you have some talents that can help us

424
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.359
get there. Yeah. Yeah,
and at least one is I love that.

425
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:18.079
I wish that's what everybody did during
recruiting, you know, because in

426
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:21.759
the end, you want to provide
a realistic job preview, right, and

427
00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:23.759
so what we should be doing is
saying, hey, here's all the ways

428
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:29.680
that work happens here. Yes,
it's crazy, is it your branded crazy

429
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.599
and exactly. If the answer is
yes, then let's have the next conversation,

430
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:36.759
which is, hey, here's the
capabilities we're missing. If you have

431
00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:40.240
one of more of these capabilities,
and if so, then we have the

432
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:44.000
third conversation, which is, here's
the three big projects you're going to do

433
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:47.880
once you get here? Are these
in your wheelhouse? Are these things you

434
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:51.279
haven't done and you want to try? And if we just did that for

435
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:56.400
people, imagine how much better the
road into the company is. But what

436
00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.359
happens is two things. One is
we sell aspirations, so we're disappointed there.

437
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.839
And secondly, as we make people
really narrowed, right, So we

438
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.079
give them this big job description,
here's all the things that are part of

439
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.599
this job, and we know the
reality of lease is actually it's only two

440
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:14.160
of them, right, And there's
probably twenty other things you're going to have

441
00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:17.359
to do that we didn't tell you
about. And again, it's just I've

442
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.720
always wondered, like what do you
get, Like, what do you get

443
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:23.680
by telling them a story that inherently
isn't a full version of the truth.

444
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:27.359
And I just I want people to
come more authentically. I want the talent

445
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:33.039
to come more authentically. Be much
more aware of what they stand for,

446
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.279
what they want, what they're looking
for. And I want companies to do

447
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:37.480
the same. And I just think
that conversation. I say it in the

448
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:41.720
book, but it should feel less
like a first date and more like a

449
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:45.680
family re union. Yeah. I
love that. And you have some fantastic

450
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.000
examples in the book. Listeners and
viewers, if this is what your jam

451
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:53.839
is specifically on the hiring front,
the recruiting and the onboarding front man Andrew,

452
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.680
some of those examples of really how
to write a job or job requisition

453
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:02.200
and job description with the five point
that you talked about that is that's a

454
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:04.599
game changer for most companies that are
doing it. Completely opposite of that,

455
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:07.839
I appreciate that at least that means
yeah, yeah, I mean I And

456
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.680
so the other thing I was going
to say too is I had the chance

457
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:15.720
to one of my other clients here
in Dallas is a sustainability consultancy and I

458
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.279
help them hire a lot of their
talent too. Same thing. You know,

459
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:22.960
as we were doing their purpose and
vision values sort of work, they

460
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:25.920
said, gosh, we need we
need some work. Can help us with

461
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:27.599
that, and I thought I can. And same thing you know, let

462
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:30.799
me tell you these are this is
what you're walking into. This is where

463
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:34.119
we have struggles. This is where
you know it's going to get kind of

464
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:38.279
gets a little ugly over here,
you know. And I it was so

465
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:44.039
cool, and the founder of the
organization was just it was delightful to work

466
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:45.559
with. But anyway, anyhow,
I want to stay there for a second

467
00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:49.599
because anymore, like people are looking
for three things out of their companies.

468
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:53.519
One is I want to know I'm
going to do meaningful work. Absolutely,

469
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:57.759
I want the job just to matter. Yeah, right. Secondly is I

470
00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:02.440
want authenticity. I don't need you
to be perfect. I'm not perfect,

471
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:04.400
right, I don't need you to
be perfect, and I don't want you

472
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.839
to ask me to be perfect.
Right, So that whole idea of a

473
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:11.880
five scale on performance, it's like
nobody's perfect, so let's just start there.

474
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.920
And I think lastly is that I'm
looking for flexibility and not in the

475
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.680
ways that we're currently providing. It's
not about how many days in the office.

476
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:22.759
It's about providing flexibility in the ways
that we can to allow me to

477
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:29.640
move effectively through the system and regain
my energy when I need to over time,

478
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.160
And I think if we could just
simplify the conversation, say hey,

479
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.880
let's start building for that. It's
a lot of work on hr to redo

480
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.519
these systems, but it's going to
provide what you just talked about, which

481
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:42.359
is you're going to get talent.
It's going to stay. I believe in

482
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:45.480
the twenty year career. I don't
think it's gone. I think we built

483
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:51.119
these systems people want to stay because
we inherently want community. The one thing

484
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:52.880
we don't have right now is we're
losing our communities, and I think companies

485
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.960
could be the place where that could
happen a little bit more for people than

486
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.599
it does today. Well, we've
got to keep reiterating this stuff completely with

487
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:01.720
you, and I want to talk
about some of those other things that you

488
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:07.160
have, especially around some of your
buffers. That's really interesting stuff, so

489
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.400
to help kind of ease that.
But let's grab our last break before we

490
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:13.880
get there. Got it. I'm
your host, doctor Elise Cortez. We've

491
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.759
been on the air with doctor Andre
Martin. He's the author of Wrongfoot,

492
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:21.359
Right Fit. We've been talking a
bit about the ways that individuals can start

493
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:24.039
to really get clear about what they
want and for companies to be clear,

494
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:28.880
more transparent and genuine about what they
want and who they are say with this

495
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:46.839
will be right back for more.
Doctor release Cortez is a management consultant specializing

496
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:52.720
in meaning and purpose. An inspirational
speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer

497
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:58.000
for a greater purpose among stakeholders and
develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures

498
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:01.759
that elevate fulfillment, performance, and
commitment within the workforce. To learn more

499
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:07.319
or to invite Elise to speak to
your organization, please visit her at elisecortes

500
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.400
dot com. Let's talk about how
to get your employees working on purpose.

501
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:21.440
This is working on Purpose with doctor
Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

502
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:24.319
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise A.

503
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:37.160
LISEE at elisecortes dot com. Now
back to working on Purpose. Thanks for

504
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:38.799
staining Welson, Welcome back to working
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor

505
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:43.079
Elise Cortes. I mentioned in the
last break about My Last Boy that came

506
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.440
out in March of twenty twenty three, the Great Revitalization. What I did

507
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:50.400
for you is I built you a
three page assessment and organizational best practices assessment

508
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:53.039
to see the extent to which your
organization is actually meeting the centers of today's

509
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:59.359
discerning workforce. So you can find
it at gustodashnow dot com if you are

510
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.400
just joining us. My guest is
doctor Andre Martin. He's an entrepreneur,

511
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:06.799
operating advisor, board member, organizational
psychologist, and coach to top founders and

512
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.920
C suite executives. He has held
key C level of leadership roles dedicated to

513
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.559
talent, employee engagement, leadership,
development and culture and some of the biggest

514
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.960
consumer brands including Disney, Mars Incorporated, Nike, Target, and Google.

515
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:22.360
So I would just I think I
might just call that an over at cheat.

516
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.000
Andre, while we're while we're,
while we're you know, bucketing things,

517
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:28.960
I might just call that an over
achiever. But I was. I

518
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:32.800
was profoundly lucky and so filled with
gratitude to be able to see, you

519
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:37.800
know, just into some of these
revered brands and companies struggling to continue to

520
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:40.039
be great as they drive growth.
So it's just it was an honor to

521
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:43.519
be a part of all of them. And you know, it's such a

522
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.159
such an amazing place to be considered. And I came from a tiny little

523
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:49.639
town in the middle of nowhere.
So it was it's been a blast.

524
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:53.119
I'm so I'm super lucky. It's
so wonderful. Now do you know who

525
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:58.440
Aaron Hurst is? M hm Okay. So when I was doing his purpose

526
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:01.320
stuff, go through his Purpose conferences
and things like that, I met some

527
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:06.440
people from Mars. Yeah, and
I mean I was so impressed. I

528
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.960
forget what year this was, twenty
eighteen maybe anyway, So, yes,

529
00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:14.679
yes, you've been blessed. But
let's just there's also a component of what

530
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:16.800
you did to make all that happen
too, And I get that part of

531
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:22.159
being humble, but I can I
can brag on you. Okay. So

532
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:27.400
I thought this idea of buffers where
it was quite interesting you talk about them,

533
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:30.719
you know, buffers as vital tools
of sustaining right foot if you have

534
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:32.599
it, and managing wrongfit when you
don't. I thought that was just really

535
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.920
really interesting from an organizational vantage point. So I wanted to talk about a

536
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.320
few of the inspirational buffers because of
course a lot of them are smack over

537
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:44.960
right in my lane. Starting with
of course, you know, the authentic

538
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.800
connection to purpose or cause within the
organization. So could you just speak a

539
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:51.599
little bit to some of these buffers
for us, I'd be glad to and

540
00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:53.480
I want to start at least just
by saying, you know, they originated

541
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:58.719
from the conversations with the interviewees saying, hey, we've all been there,

542
00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:02.440
if you could take yourself back,
how could you have made those experiences just

543
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:07.519
a little bit better interesting? And
it really came from that conversation, which

544
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.159
was, you know, these inspirational
buffers are things that we can do.

545
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:13.920
And I think the important part of
this is is, Hey, it's not

546
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.480
just up to the company to change, right. No place is a perfect

547
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:22.360
fit. You're always going to face
times in a career where it's going to

548
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.039
be this ekg readout it's going to
be really great and it's going to be

549
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:29.480
really hard in the hard times.
Instead of jumping ship and going to the

550
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:31.920
greener grass, although I don't think
it's out there, how can we buffer

551
00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:35.519
against this? And purpose is a
big one, right, One of the

552
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.480
fundamental questions every great company answers is
why is the world better with us in

553
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:45.800
it? Yep? And the unfortunate
thing is, day to day we fail

554
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.199
on many accounts to connect ourselves back
to that, and so I'm just like,

555
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:52.840
hey, I'm like to start every
day, which simply asking this question

556
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:54.159
of why is the world better with
the company and I'm working in, what

557
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:58.039
are we about, what are we
trying to do? What's the injustice?

558
00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:02.039
What's the opportunity we're looking at?
And that alone is going to give your

559
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:06.559
day a little bit more intention.
It's the equivalent of the janitor who worked

560
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:09.039
for NASA said, Hey, I'm
not sweeping floors, right, I'm putting

561
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:13.920
people on the moon, right.
And that's what purpose does. But we

562
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:15.480
have to connect to it more often
than we do, you know. I

563
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:20.639
think a couple of that also stood, you know, really tall for me

564
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:25.519
was you have to make every day
an opportunity to learn. One of my

565
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:29.760
first jobs at Disney when I first
got there, I struggled being in this

566
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:34.760
big company for the first time,
you know, working in Florida and trying

567
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:37.280
to figure out the system. And
one of my mentors on a day that

568
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:39.039
was really a tough one for me. I remember, I was sitting in

569
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.320
my car in the parking lot.
I called him, like, Carl,

570
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.880
I don't think I can do it, and he literally said one sentence to

571
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:46.760
me that stayed with me the rest
of my career is like, if you

572
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:52.719
can be a success there in this
moment where it's really hard, you're going

573
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.760
to be a success anywhere you go. And so this idea of realizing,

574
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:02.119
and this is to everybody that's listening, life is literally the greatest classroom on

575
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:07.079
earth. You don't need to take
a development program. You've got so much

576
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.840
fodder. And if we walk in
not as a victim, if we walk

577
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:14.880
in not as an apathetic, you
know, sort of tired employee, but

578
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:17.159
we walk in saying, hey,
like this day, this moment, this

579
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:22.320
idea, this is a chance for
me to learn and grow. That honestly

580
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.320
does change the orientation. And then
the last one for me is always you've

581
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:30.760
got to keep a legitimate relationship with
time. Yes, that was so powerful

582
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:34.480
what you write in there, that
was so powerful. Yeah, And you

583
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.280
and I both know this, right, I mean, I think we probably

584
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.480
both in jobs where you become a
professional meeting attendee or you're on zooms from

585
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:44.280
eight in the morning until ten at
night. And it's like, when we

586
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.800
lose our relationship with time, two
things happen to us. One is our

587
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:52.119
company is going to take as much
as we're willing to give. It's just

588
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:53.719
how companies are created. It's okay, it's not evil, it's just,

589
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:57.199
hey, if you're willing to give
me the time, I've got plenty of

590
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:00.400
work to get done, right.
And if we don't set that boundary,

591
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.400
no one's going to set that boundary
for us. And the second thing is

592
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:10.360
is the debt that we pay for
not keeping a boundary on work is actually

593
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:14.880
all the things that we say matter
to us anyway. Right. We lose

594
00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:16.559
our wives, we lose our best
friends, we lose our hobbies, we

595
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:22.280
lose our connection to our home,
and it's like that's fuel. Like if

596
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:27.719
life's magic at home, hard things
at work are a lot easier to handle.

597
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:32.079
And so just keep that in mind
as you think about buffering against hard

598
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:38.280
times. It's not about working More's
actually about working the same amount you're working

599
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:42.760
today, just in maybe a different
way. What I love about this part

600
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:45.199
of the conversation Andrena, again,
I think you and I are quite aligned

601
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:51.360
on this is what you're really speaking
to is just how much empowerment or how

602
00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:57.440
much enablement and empowerment that people individually
have for themselves to be able to create

603
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.920
the experience that they actually want,
and I want to emphasize that. So

604
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:06.480
it's not you know, the company
won't let me do this, I don't.

605
00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:10.280
There is so much you can do
to be able to improve the quality

606
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:14.760
of your experience at work and what
your contribution is. And that's what I

607
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:17.000
know I both of us want to
celebrate. So I want to emphasize that

608
00:40:17.079 --> 00:40:20.599
point, and I want to stay
there for a second, because there's two

609
00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:23.199
things in my life that have been
huge contributors to you know, just the

610
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:27.440
career being able to have. One
is I tried to always walk into the

611
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:31.199
day with an intention, right,
like, what was this day supposed to

612
00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:34.559
give to me? Regardless of whether
or not it did, I had a

613
00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:37.639
plan, right, And then every
meeting. I tried to walk in every

614
00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:39.119
meeting saying, Hey, what's this
meeting supposed to provide for me? So

615
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:43.159
I can provide something to the company. And the other one is attention,

616
00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:49.320
Right. I always tried to pay
attention to the places and spaces where there

617
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.039
was opportunity, even in the hardest
of times. Right. And it's not

618
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:57.719
toxic positivity. It's actually saying,
hey, there's a wide amount of information

619
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.599
available to you in the world,
right, Right, And if you choose

620
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:05.320
to point your attention towards a certain
question, a certain feeling, you're just

621
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.000
going to get more of it.
Right. If I want to say this

622
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:10.679
company is bad, I can find
a million reasons why it's bad. If

623
00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.800
I want to say, hey,
this company is a place I can learn,

624
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:15.840
it changes the orientation the way that
the information comes at me. And

625
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:20.559
so those two ideas of attention and
intention are really sort of fundamental to me

626
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.880
as we think about it, and
I think, you know, we'll get

627
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:27.400
to the relational buffers. But one
of them that is just dead center of

628
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.639
that idea is this idea that you
make your manager. Oh and I love

629
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:35.840
that. We're going to talk about
that. I love that absolutely jamming on

630
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:37.360
that. Yeah, that one.
I mean, it was a big one

631
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:40.440
for me too, because I hear
every day, you know, in the

632
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:45.039
data, we talk about seventy percent
of our engagements due to our manager.

633
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:47.880
Managers are burnout, most of them
are under trained. And I'm like,

634
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:51.840
I'm like, there's two realities on
what everyone to hear from me, and

635
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:53.239
I think you'll back these up.
The first one is, as you move

636
00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:58.760
up in an organization, you are
less and less prepared for the job you're

637
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.880
getting ready to do, right,
You just are. You're inherently getting these

638
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:06.440
bigger, more complex jobs that you've
never done before, and so you're not

639
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:09.199
on your right foot, right,
you're not on stable ground. And the

640
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:13.679
second thing that's true is as you
progress through an organization, you get less

641
00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:16.639
and less feedback. Let mephrase that
you get less and less real feedback,

642
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:22.400
right, And so what I always
tell people is every leader in every company

643
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:25.719
is starved for feedback. And so
the simplest thing you can do at lease

644
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.039
is make a list of the top
ten qualities of the best leaders you've ever

645
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:35.000
had and carry it in your back
pocket, right, look at it every

646
00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:37.519
day, and then anytime one of
your leaders does one of those things,

647
00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:43.440
as soon as humanly possible, stop
them say hey, boss, I love

648
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:46.679
that you open this meeting with an
inspiration dose. It actually made me feel

649
00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:52.880
really connected to the company and changed
my orientation to a really hard day.

650
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:57.079
Thank you. And you know what's
funny about a lease is two things are

651
00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:00.639
going to happen, yep. One
is you're going to feel just a little

652
00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:05.119
bit better by saying that out loud. And secondly, that manager the next

653
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:07.519
time they open the meeting. Guess
what they're gonna do. They're going to

654
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.960
do that exact same behavior. Again, the inspiration dose is coming out.

655
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:15.840
It's coming out, and you can
train your manager, right. And I

656
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.280
just I see so many people feel
like they don't have a voice, and

657
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:22.280
it's like feedback's the greatest tool on
earth, is the most powerful thing you

658
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:28.360
have, and nobody turns down a
compliment. Yeah, I thought, I

659
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:30.280
think that's really really powerful. Listeners
and viewers think about that. I mean,

660
00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:34.159
if you don't like your boss,
you can you can shape him or

661
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.239
her to a better future. And
and then there is so much power in

662
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:40.880
that. So again, there are
so many things Andre that iligned with you

663
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.559
on that I that I you know, we're championing the same cause here.

664
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:46.519
And yeah, you've just said it's
so much more clearer and crisper than I

665
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:51.159
have. Though I don't believe that
for a second. I don't believe that

666
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:52.639
for a second. I'm just maybe
saying it in a little bit different way.

667
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:57.840
How about that? Well maybe,
But so I'll just quickly say,

668
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.199
because there's two of the things I
want to cover up before we have to

669
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:04.719
go leave for this conversation. But
I love the idea of you know,

670
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:10.000
you talk about this notion of meaningful
mentors, and you talk about how organizations

671
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:15.639
are well served to create a mentorship
program and teach both parties what's involved and

672
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:20.079
see if they're the right fit.
But why because the mentors then have more

673
00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.960
skin in the game and feel that
relational component they're giving something. The people

674
00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:27.719
that are being mentored feel that.
And I'm a big believer in mentors too,

675
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.599
so I just wanted to echo that
as one of your relational buffers that

676
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:32.840
you have in there too. Yeah, one percent, and you said most

677
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:37.800
of what's there. You know,
there's two things. There's many different kinds

678
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.880
of mentors. Right. There's mentors
that can teach us about how a company

679
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:45.079
works. Those are our people who
are of a company. There's mentors who

680
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:49.800
are just unbelievable their craft. Right. There's mentors that are great storytellers.

681
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:52.800
There's mentors that are great at the
financial elements of business. And I think

682
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:57.559
first we have to do is we
have to think about where do I want

683
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:00.920
to get mentor that is, where
do I want to learn somebody else's lessons

684
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:04.079
of experience. We often look at
mentorship as I just want to be you

685
00:45:04.119 --> 00:45:07.400
know, mentored by the highest most
successful leader in the world, Like,

686
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:09.719
that's probably not going to serve you, right, So if you want to

687
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:13.239
get mentored, to be really clear
about what you're looking for, because that

688
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.039
helps somebody know how to lean in. I think secondly is there's a lot

689
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:20.840
of people who just really aren't good
mentors, right right. I mean,

690
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:27.400
mentorship is is something that is is
a fine sort of tuned skill, and

691
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:30.719
I think we have to start training
people on how to be a good mentor.

692
00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:32.039
And also just the reality of like
I can't be your mentor for the

693
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:35.519
rest of your life, right right, right, but I can be this

694
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:38.360
mentor in this moment with this question, and that can just be enough and

695
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:43.320
setting that expectation really well. Otherwise, you know, you just you collect

696
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:45.960
one hundred mentors over time and that's
your whole week. Right. So I

697
00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:50.679
think recognizing how and where we can
mentor and giving people the skill to be

698
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:55.079
great in that relationship is vital to
making it work. Love that two things,

699
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:58.960
if we can squeeze them in.
I love this whole idea of the

700
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:05.719
rise of the team and really really
creating an organization around that concept would be

701
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:07.760
so powerful unleashing so much so if
you can speak a little bit to this

702
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:12.960
notion of how we can really ride
that wave of rising the team member,

703
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:16.599
this one I've been dumbfounded by my
entire career, right, So, you

704
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:21.320
know, we talk a lot about
training managers to be great team leaders,

705
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:23.559
and I've always come from a place
I'm like, Hey, the truth is

706
00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:28.840
is you could take the best manager
in the world and if you put them

707
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:34.599
with you know, a group of
prisoners at Alcatraz. I don't care how

708
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.280
good they are, They're probably not
forming a great team. Right. But

709
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:42.920
here's the deal is that everybody in
the organization has one fundamental thing in common,

710
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:46.400
from the CEO all the way down
to the next person that's going to

711
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.599
join the company for the first time, and that is that we're all going

712
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:55.000
to be members of a team.
And if we understood fundamentally how teaming works,

713
00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:59.840
if we knew what it meant to
be a great team member to actually

714
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:04.519
create a space where the sum is
bigger than the parts, and I knew

715
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:08.119
that I had an active role in
that, Yeah, that just changes the

716
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:12.679
entire dynamic. Instead of me sitting
in the seat expecting someone else to make

717
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:16.880
this a good meeting. Everybody that
sits down understands that the success meeting is

718
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:22.360
fundamentally about their skill and being a
great team member. It would just change

719
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:25.800
the game. And so I've always
wanted to say, let's stop training team

720
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:30.599
leaders right and let's start training everyone
to take the seat in the right way

721
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:35.360
as a team member and do your
job on elevating all of us. I

722
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:37.719
love that. I'm in. Let's
do it all right, Let's do it.

723
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:40.480
Okay, one last thing really quick. I can't close the show without

724
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:43.920
you talking about this. So I
think this is so amazing that you have

725
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:47.760
some stats in the book here about
how organizations. Here it is, I've

726
00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:53.280
got it over here. There was
a study that PwC put out and they

727
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:58.559
found they looked at five hundred listed
from private companies. Fifty four percent have

728
00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:02.159
a defined and clear rel ofvance purpose, but only thirteen percent and publicly disclose

729
00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:07.760
how purpose is embedded in their cultural
and operating models. So that's that deficit,

730
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.840
that purpose gap. So it's one
thing to declare a purpose, but

731
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:15.599
operationalizing it is something totally different that
most organizations are not doing. No,

732
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:20.679
they're not. And here's what it
comes down to is you know we've mistaken

733
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:25.400
purpose for again being a giant marketing
campaign. Ye right. And actually,

734
00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:29.800
one of the things we fundamentally have
to realize about business now and every day

735
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:34.760
moving forward, is that the cycles
of re recruitment have radically sped up.

736
00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:37.000
It used to be back in the
day, like when we both start our

737
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:40.320
career, like you could take a
job, pick up your computer, do

738
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:44.639
a little onboarding, and then they
could kind of let you go just do

739
00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:50.400
your thing. Right now because everyone's
got this fomo, everyone's infinitely browsing,

740
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:53.280
we have to re recruit people every
single day back to the company. As

741
00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:57.960
a leader, there's four fundamental questions
you have to answer for your people every

742
00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:01.400
day you bump into them. First
one is why is the world better with

743
00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:06.280
our company in it? That's purpose
right. Second one is how do we

744
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:08.679
make money or have impact? That's
do I know how I fit in the

745
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:13.360
context the way this thing actually operates. Third one is how do we do

746
00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:16.920
work right? And the last one
is what's my promise to you? My

747
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:21.760
unwavering promise to you for all the
effort that you're going to put forth to

748
00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:23.760
make us better? What am I
giving you in return? And I'm like

749
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:30.039
if people know the answers of those
four questions and they authentically feel them,

750
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:34.400
nobody's going anywhere, right, right, and so on that note, recruit

751
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:37.119
more often. Okay, sounds good. On the note we have to close,

752
00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:38.239
I didn't. I just couldn't let
you go without that. I'm so

753
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:42.199
happy to have you on the show
and to know you. Thank you for

754
00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:45.119
coming on. Really appreciate your work
and who you are in the world.

755
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:47.280
Same to you, a lease,
thanks for having me, and let's keep

756
00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:51.920
making work better. Absolutely, listeners
and viewers, you are going to want

757
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:53.280
to follow this man to learn more
about him, so the best thing you

758
00:49:53.280 --> 00:50:00.119
should do is check out his website. Start at wrongfitrightfit dot com. It's

759
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:01.599
the best place to start. You
can also find him on LinkedIn as well.

760
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:05.079
Last week, you missed the live
show, you can always catch it

761
00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:08.199
be a recorded podcast. We were
on the doctor Naha Sanguan of Intuitive Intelligence.

762
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:12.639
Having the experienced burnout at the tender
age of thirty three. As an

763
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:15.840
internal medicine pre physician, she has
spent the last twenty years delving into the

764
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:21.440
root causes of stress and miscommunication and
exhaustion. We talked about her latest book,

765
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.639
Powered by me from burned out to
fully charged in work and in life.

766
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:28.880
Next week, we'll be on air
with Kevin Kelly talking about his new

767
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:32.400
book Irreplaceable, How to create extraordinary
places that bring people together. See you

768
00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:36.840
there and remembered. Work is one
of the best adventures and means of realizing

769
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:39.360
our potential and making the impact we
crave, So let's work on Purpose.

770
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:46.119
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on

771
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:51.360
Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise
Cortes, each week on W four C

772
00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:55.960
Why Together, We'll create a world
where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and

773
00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:00.559
passion performance and employees are fulfilled in
work that provides the meaning and purpose they

774
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:04.639
crave. See you there, Let's
work on Purpose.