Lead and Live Wholly: The Neuroscience of Embracing and Harnessing Your Emotions Toward Vibrance

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor Elise Cortes.

1:04 Welcome back to the Working on Purpose Program. Thanks for turning again this week. Great to have you. This program has been brought to you with passion their pride since February of twenty fifteen. I'm your host, doctor Elisee Cortes. If we've not met and you don't know me, I'm an organizational psychologist and logo therapist, speaker and author. My team and I at Gusto Now help companies to enliven it and fortify their operations and increase profitability by articulating their purpose and building inspirational leaders and cultures activated by meaning and purpose. Our mission is to help the companies we serve create a destination workplace where people flocked to join, are intrinsically motivated to perform at their best, can grow to their full potential, and are committed to stay and dynamically deliver on the company's mission, which all translate to higher profits for you. You learn more about us and how we can work together at Gusto dashnow dot com or my personal site, police Coortes dot com. Getting in today's program we have with us today Doctor Julia de Gangi.

1:53 She's a neuropsychologist who has spent nearly two decades studying the connection between our brains and our behavior. Has worked with leaders at the White House Press Office, Global Companies, International NGOs, and the US Special Forces. She's the founder of Neurohealth Partners in neuropsychology based consultancy, where she shows people at work and at home how to harness the power of the brain to lead more satisfying and emotionally intelligent lives. She's the author of Energy Rising, The Neuroscience of Leading with Emotional Power, which will be talking about today. She don't you today from Chicago, doctor de gangi a very warm welcome to working on Purpose. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me, most welcome and woman.

2:34 This is an incredible thing you have brought into the world, this beautiful book that you created. I am stunningly impressed by your work. You've taught me really just Kudo's hands down beautiful. Thank you. That means a tremendous amount. I too find the book very beautiful, so I'm always glad to connect with people and go deeper about it. Well, let's do that. I want to first start with you know why you chose the field that you did, I mean, why not accounting architects. You're a neuropsychologist, why this field? And why want me to be your account that okay, okay, because we've got that established. So I actually never thought so most people have not heard the term neuropsychologist. What this means is I'm a clinical psychologist with specialized expertise in the brain. And my path to this has been, I think, wildly circuitous. So I should say that I come from a lineage of psychologists. My father is actually a psychologist, and he really focused on addictions work. And I think, like a lot of us, we come from families that are quite wonderful, and we come from families that have a lot of pain. So there was a lot of addiction and volatility in my own family, and my brother is significantly disabled. My mother was a teacher of immigrants, and so I sort of grew up very interested in people's stories, and these themes of service and suffering were always very prominent in my household, in some

4:07 ways that were painful, in some ways that were very beautiful. So my father's a brilliant man, and he would talk a lot about his work, and he's always a great storyteller, and so I was very interested in human psychology. But I never thought that I would become a psychologist. My dad wasn't territorial. It's just you and your parents do things. You think, Okay, it's not my thing to do. So I started my career working in community organizing in politics, right, I mean, I think the reason that politics is so electrifying is because we're on some level talking about the core of what it means to be human, how to organize our communities, how to organize our lives. So I actually, of all places, started my career at the White House.

4:52 So I worked at the White House. I did worked on a few US presidential campaigns, and then I think, like a lot of US, I got tight of the politics of politics and started moving into more of advocacy and community organizing work. And so I ended up doing a lot of international human rights work, of some humanitarian aids, some international development. And what really started to strike me because now I had worked in these enormous macro systems, the labor, the global labor movement, the US political system, and regardless of whether I was in Chicago or Detroit, or a Buja or Johannesburg or down in Latin America, everywhere I went, loss always felt like loss, Rage always felt like rage, Grief always felt like grief. Hope always felt like hope. So the thing that started to strike me was everywhere I was going, I was dealing with these themes of human pain and human power. And I became very interested in the science, the psychology and the science behind this, Like, isn't it so interesting that in some ways we are so diverse, yet we all have a brain and nervous system that functions and incredibly similar ways.

6:10 Through this, I decided to actually go and become a neuropsychologist. I've done a lot of I'm very well published in the scientific literature, so a lot of work at the brain and the nervous system and how we respond to trauma, stress, and anxiety. So never thought I would become a psychologist and if I had a million lifetimes to live, I would live it on this altar of human pain and human power. Oh, doctor Deganti, that was incredible, just so powerful, And you know what, I'm just delighted by, especially doing the work that I'm doing as an organizational psychologist. I'm so delighted to see that the work of you and others as well, are bringing emotions to their proper stage. You know, it used to be that we had to stuff them and not talk about them and certainly not live them.

6:56 And so I love how you have really. Put forth this notion of that you say, our emotions are the bridge between where we currently standing where we want to be. Look the power of emotions. Behold the power emotions. Amazing? Yes, so I you know, one of the things that I sort of realized in my work is that in order to really make meaning in our lives, meaning is fundamentally emotional. Take any question, any existential question. Are you a good person? I don't know, how do you feel about it? Are you a good parent? Are you a good leader? Have you achieved enough in your life? Do you have enough money? Do you have enough time? How bad does you like? All these questions are fundamentally mediated by emotional systems in the brain. And so when we're all out there talking about transformation, transformation in our companies, transformations and our and our relationships with our spouses and our family, transformation on social media, the line of transformation is quite literally emotional. And I don't mean this metaphysically.

8:06 I don't mean it metaphorically. I mean it neurobiologically that until we understand how to master our emotions, we really are just going to keep playing out the same patterns over and over and over again. And I love how you really situate that you know, energy is actually sorry, emotions are actually energy, and I think people have learned that to a certain degree, but there's so much for us to uncover with that. So I want to go deeper on that, and even to even you go even further. I love the novel and simple premise of your book. You say your emotional power is best understood not as a set of activities you do or strategies you execute, but as energy you possess.

8:47 And that is fantastic. I think that it is really important for us to understand because I think one of the fundamental flaws that we all make is we think that there's something external to us that if we could just achieve this thing, we would arrive. Right. So, if we could finally have the degree, if we could make x amount of dollars, if we could be in this type of marriage, if we could be in this type of home, if we could be in this type of body. But I'm here to tell you in part because of my brain research, but also because at this point in my career, I have sat with thousands of people and I have sat with.

9:28 So I do have a clinical practice where I treat patients, but I also coach some of the world's most successful leaders. And a message that I want to share with people that I know we've all heard on some level is there's something so powerful when people who have it all are sitting and saying I feel terrible, I feel stressed, I feel inadequate, I feel unrelaxed, I feel constantly on edge. So there isn't there's no no external thing that can calibrate or transform the energy that's in our nervous system. Well, then how do we do that? Will we do that by coming in to a relationship with feelings that we have historically avoided feeling. This is why an energy rising.

10:20 I think one of the greatest things about energy rising is it really simplifies in a way that is scientifically accurate, how human transformation happens. And I talk about emotional power, which is all the things we want, confidence and connection and resilience and creativity. And I talk about emotional pain, and it's all the things we don't want, fear, stress, overwhelm, anxiety, being irritated, being frustrated. But there's this great paradox, and the paradox is that every single thing that we want in this lifetime, more confidence, more peace, more intimacy, requires us to come into a different relationship with the painful feelings we've avoided so much so that it's actually these painful feelings that, ironically, paradoxically enough, are the precise, the precise path to greater power. To give you an example of this, let's say I'm someone in my life who wants more confidence. The only way, the only way to get more confidence is for me to come into a new relationship with the energy of self doubt. As I start to go into that energy of self doubt, it hurts.

11:41 Right If I want more influence or I want to be a more effective leader, have deeper relationships, the energy I must face is the energy of rejection. So as I go to open myself, expose myself, be more vulnerable, I'm going to feel anxious. I'm going to feel the fear of being reject But if I can hold my shake in that period, what happens is I get the very thing I want. Greater influence, greater connectivity, greater intimacy, and so on. So the point I'm really trying to make. Here is these feelings that a lot of us spend an entire lifetime trying to avoid are the precise feelings we need to metabolize in order to construct the life we want.

12:24 So powerful, I had on doctor Neha Sanguan, who is also a friend of mine, talking about something similar like this, and she's a medical doctor. She talks about that, she doesn't. I love the idea of metabolizing these painful emotions very powerful, And you talk about that being our path, that's our path to empowerment. When we do this, it is our path through empowerment. And I think to understanding where we really really stumble. So I think one of the biggest ideas and energy rising. If I really had one word to describe all my work, I think it would be either counterintuitive or opposite. Right, So, the brain is really a pattern detection machine. And so the brain, it's pattern detection capabilities are amazing. This is exactly why I'm sure we've all had this scenario where we drive home and we are either on a phone call or listening to a podcast, and we arrive in our driveway and have no idea how we got there. Right, It's just the brain's kind of unconscious pattern detection abilities taking over. The problem with this is, if we want any change in our life, it requires it is requisite that we rupture patterns well to an organ that's in the business of adherent to old patterns. When I start to rupture the pattern, of course that would be painful.

13:45 But I have to come to pain in my life with an intelligence, and one of the intelligences is to understand. And this is a This is very counterintuitive for even though I do this work all the time, it's even sometimes counterintuitive to me. Oftentimes we think it's the situation that creates the emotion. Because I showed up at the party and nobody was nice to me, I now feel bad because I tried X and X didn't happen, I now feel anxious. Very often it's the exact opposite. It's the emotional energy that I possess in my own nervous system and my own body that gives rise to the situation.

14:31 And so if I spend my life trying to transform situation, after I try to make this person say this thing, and those people do that thing, and those people not say that thing, and then I'm kind of chasing situation after situation after situation to try to transform my life, when what I really need to do is come into a new awareness of my own emotional energy. And I'm happy to give examples of this or really take this anyway you want. Well, let's get one example and then after that we'll take our first break. Okay, how long do I have because I want to I want to like about a ma Okay, let me try to do this in a minute. So, I think the biggest stumbling block is actually what I call the energy of uncertainty. And I don't care if you say the word ambiguity or confusion or I don't know or the future. All of these things semantically neurologically are just like I don't know what comes next. And so uncertainty is very, very triggering to an organ that's in the business of predicting what comes next. Right, the brain is in the business what predict comes next. Ye, So what happens to a lot of us is when we meet uncertainty is we try to create external forms of certainty.

15:45 I describe this and energy rising by what I call the overs I'm guessing that some of your listeners are going to resonate with this, so I start to do things like I overwork, I overthink, I overaccommodate, I overgive, I overfunction, I overengineer, I over communicate, I mean, I overschedule, I overplan, on and on and on and on. What I'm really trying to do is I'm trying to say, right now, I'm feeling nervous because of uncertainty in the external environment, so let me try to compensate through a tremendous amount of my own energy to try to create external forms of certainty. The problem with this, for any of us who've overworked and overdone it for too long is invariably there's a math to this. We end up feeling exhausted, the draggled, defeated, and at the extreme we feel numb, We feel uninspired by our own lives, and we even feel depressed and hopeless. Okay, So one of the most paradoxical things, and I'm most formatively an anxiety expert, is there's a very paradoxical thing, which is the more I try to beat uncertainty by obsessively trying to create certainty in the extra in a world, the worse I feel, the more anxious I feel. The more stressed I feel, the more unstable. I think it's one of the greatest paradoxes.

17:11 So what is the answer to uncertainty? And maybe I'll go into more of this after the break if we need to. The answer to uncertainty is not more certainty. The answer to uncertainty is identity. Who when the world is unknown, when people will not cooperate, when people will not listen, when the things don't go as I want them to go, Who, in those moments do I say that I am? And if I have a very very clear answer to this question, which most of us don't, this is why I wrote Code Too and Energy Rising, which is called build your Power pattern. If I have a power pattern where I say, no, matter what's happening out there, this is who I am. My ability to get spaciousness, degrees of freedom and relief is otherworldly.

18:08 M That is a great way to send our listeners and viewers on a break, Doctor Gange, let's do just that. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. We were in the air with doctor Julia de Ganji. She's the founder of Neurohealth Partners, a neuropsychology based consultancy where she shows people at work and at home. How to harness the. Power of the brain to leave we're satisfying and emotionally intelligent lives. Talking a bit about where her work came from and why it so important to her and its power. We're going to start talking about those codes. She talks that there's five of them in her book. Will be right back.

18:53 Doctor release Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helped company's visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise A. LISEE at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on purpose.

19:44 Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, Doctor Elise Cortes as I am dedicated to help and create a world where people realize the potential at work and they are led by inspirational leaders and who help them find and contribute their greatness. And we do business at Betters the World. I keep researching and writing my own books. My last one came out in March of twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business. And I wrote it to help leaders understand just what today's workforce really wants in order to be engaged and give their best. And then I offer twenty two best practices to help you put that into your culture to make it so. You can find my books on Amazon or my website at least quretest dot com if you are just now joining us. My guests is doctor Juliet de Gangi. She's the author of Energy Rising, The Neuroscience of Leading with Emotional Power.

20:29 So, before we get into and start talking. About some of those codes, and I hope we can get through most of them because they're so powerful, I do want to have you talk a little bit about emotional power. Defined you say, if emotional pain is self division, then what's emotional power? What is it? So the best definition I can give for emotional power is wholeness. There's this. You know. What I like to always say at the beginning of these conversations is I think a lot of us think that emotions are just so wild and so irrational and so unpredictable. And I always say, there's a real math, there's a real physics or emotional life, Like emotions are as biological as hunger or going to the bathroom or sleep. So if we can just take it in a morally agnostic like at first, just like, let's just understand the physics of this, right, So what a lot of us are saying that we want.

21:26 If you look at LinkedIn as even just like a litmus test, everyone is out there talking about expressing themselves and this idea of authenticity and like really being able to be vulnerable. Well, nobody needs to be more authentic about the parts they already like about themselves right now, you know, like this is already working well for me and I'm not self conscious about it, and like I just the parts we need authenticity around are the parts that we feel need to be cloaked in darkness. Because they're too painful to let out, they're too humiliating, they're too weird. There are two, I mean all the things. Right, Well, here's the thing we got to ask ourselves. Would the human body, the human nervous system is a machine on some level?

22:13 Right? Yes. Let's imagine that I was trying to construct a jet like another type of machine, and I said, hey, this machine, this jet has like three different engines, but I'm only going to fly it on one engine. Maybe that would work, but it's certainly not as powerful, it's not going to be as efficient. The human emotions, the human thoughts, and the human behaviors are the three energetic engines that constitute what it means to be a human being. What a lot of us are actually doing, though, is saying, there's all the parts of us that we don't like, and so we try to cut it off. We try to not turn the engine on, so it's not part of our functioning, our energy ergetic sphere. Let's say the problem with this is the engines there, we're dragging around dead weight, and so what we really need to say is, like, do we believe from again a mathematical point of view, that bringing more of me honestly to the table would invariably create a more powerful version of me, a truer version of me, a more authentic version of me. Do I also think, because human nervous systems are quite similar all around the world, that if I'm experiencing feelings I don't like, like anxiety and stress and overwhelming and inadequacy and humiliation, it's probably true that other human beings on

23:44 the planet are experiencing these precise same sensations. If the answer to those questions is like, yes, having more energy in the equation actually makes people more energetic, then I should bring more of myself health to the equation. So my definition for emotional power is simply just emotional wholeness, not just the parts that are socially acceptable, not just the parts that other people give me permission to be. Emotional power is when I finally say, and this is an evolution, a lifelong process. I am already what I am. No, this is not. This is immutable. Whether or not I choose to acknowledge it or not is a secondary question.

24:33 But I already am these things. I already am as confident as I am, I already am as afraid as I am. I already am as heartbroken as I am. I already am as smart as these are already true. So my willingness to acknowledge what is true or not true does not help reality. The one question before me, and this is a total power question, is how do I choose to participate with reality? Oh, doctor de Ganji, where you've been all my life? This is fantastic, so powerful. Well, let's talk a little bit about your codes. I don't know if we'll get through all of them, but I'd love for you to speak to as many as we can, because I want our listeners and viewers to walk away with some ways to be able to use your work right away. Your first one, Code one expand your emotional power. I love how you talk about this whole that you only have two options run from your pain or become more powerful in the face of it. That is so empowering and emboldening.

25:33 I really think it is because the thing about pain is it by definition feels bad. There's no way to make there's no way to make pain feel good otherwise it's not actually pain. Right, So what we have to do and what I love about Code one energy rising, and what I love even more about physical health is we have a precise, almost precise analog to this. So those of us who have worked out in any capacity, we run, we lift weights, we go to yoga, we do all the things. For most of us, we don't actually like the process. When we're sweating, when our heart's pounding, our muscles are shaking.

26:18 In energy right. One of the things I think is great about energy rising is it's very practical. So there's a lot of exercises and blueprints and case studies. So one of the examples, because I think you ask for some examples, is an exercise I call hold your emotional shake. So if I want to get more, let's use physical help as an analog. First. If I want to get physically stronger, and I currently can only lift five pounds, when I go to the gym and start to lift five pounds more, so I'm lifting ten pounds now my muscles are My bicep is quite literally going to shake. And what it's shaking, I don't like the sensation. But for most of us, we don't flee from the gin, screaming, calling the ambulance never to return ever again. Because our muscles are shaking. Interact a lot of us find that sensation, albeit unpleasant, we actually find it satisfying. Why because the shaking is the clearest evidence of our increasing strength. It's precisely the same on the emotional power side that I've got to hit my emotional shake. I'll give you an example from my own life. Actually, with Energy Rising, so as academics, you know, we with almost out exaggeration, you probably know this too, we could prepare for ten years, yes, to give one twenty minute presentation at a conference, you know, so we

27:49 know every aspect of our data and all the limitations that. Okay. So when Energy Rising got out in the world and people were very interested in it, I started getting all of these calls to do wonderful interviews with wonderful hosts like yourself. At first I lost my mind. I was like, trying to prepare for each interview the way I would prepare for like one conference every two years. Well, I couldn't. I have little kids, I have a job. I couldn't keep up. So I was like, Okay, I have got a big decision to make. I have either got to decide I am willing to walk the work of the damn book I just wrote or I can try to over control, over over over over overdo everything. So I just said, I'm going to trust. I'm going to trust my identity as a researcher. I'm going to trust my identity as a person who has enough intelligence to So the first few interviews were awful. I stuttered and I stammered, and my heart rased, my throat quivered, my hands shook, I would sweat, So I was literally emotionally shaking and physiologically shaking. Right, But what happened in a very very short period of time, and this is the piece I really want people to hear. In a very short period of time, the nervous system habituates, just like muscles habituate,

29:21 so very quickly I just stop shaking. And when I stopped shaking, what started to happen was new intelligences rose from me. So instead of being like, did I make a mistake, did I say the Yeah, I make mistakes all the time. I say stupid things all the time. It's neither here nor there. Because I believe that the energy with which we speak is more important than the precise words that we use. Right, absolutely, My point here. Is that, like, if we want to get them more emotionally powerful, and the whole premise of my life is about emotional power. We can never ever ever outperformed fear.

30:04 We can just face it. And when we face it, we will shake. But what happens is we are released. I'd love to share, like a story that I think is so powerful. Please let's do it. Stories are great. So this is a pilot. It was the first pilot to ever break the sound barrier. Okay, and he's in one of these like little rinkity dnkity planes. I heard the story and I was like, that is the most powerful thing. So he said, when he first hit the sound barrier, the plane just started shaking uncontrollably. It was like rattling and clanging. Most of us mere mortals would have turned that damn thing around. Is just like, get me out of here. Where's the eject button? And he said he just held his position and within seconds he punctured the sound barrier and it was totally smooth, booth, peaceful sailing. One of the ideas that I put forth in Energy Rising is the idea we can never outrun pain.

31:09 Pain is inherent, is aging and gravity and time to the human experience. So while we can never fully escape pain. What we can do is pick a more powerful pain. So when this pilot decided to puncture this sound, yes he shook for a while, but as soon, very quickly, he got relief. Very quickly. When I went on interview after an interview and was willing to face my pain, I got relief. What I want people to understand is that the human nervous system is predictable. If we're willing to engage it in certain ways, we invariably get stronger. Well, and you are a perfect living example of just that.

31:52 I can't imagine you being nervous at any kind of interview because the strength and conviction and power that you're giving us today in your example is just the proof you're telling us about what it looks like to actually grow through your pain. Yeah, but you see even that even that is like I had to so this is more truly me. But for a long time, you know, I have like a pretty strong academic pedigree and talk, you know, talking about certain things in a way that kind of starts to get more away from like the technical science. I had to overcome that fear too, right, So could it? Because I always saw myself is someone who was a very strong scientist, and someone who is a very very deep feeler, who can be very intuitive, who is very emotionally attuned, And sometimes those things don't naturally coexist. So when I started to get more kind of publicity on me for a long time, it was very uncomfortable because I was trying to only be this portion of myself, and I had to once again say, how could I be talking about human wholeness andtional power and not let the fullness of me be seen? Now, when we let the fullness of ourselves be seen, is it true that some people are not going to understand us?

33:10 Yes? One of the most powerful questions we can ask ourselves is am I powerful enough to be misunderstood? Wow? I love that. Let's again let people ste on that for just a second as we take our last break. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. We've goring on New York doctor Julia de Ganji. She's the founder of neuro Health Partners, a neuropsychology based consultancy where she shows people at home and at work how to harness the power of the brain to lead more satisfying and emotionally intelligent lives. We've been getting into just the first code of her five year in her book. After the break, We're going to hit a couple more. We'll be right back.

34:04 Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise A. L Se at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

34:56 Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Cortes. I mentioned in the last break about my latest book coming out, The Great Revitalization. What I wanted you to know is that what I've done for you is I've created a three page online organizational assessment of best practices that you can actually download to be able to determine extent to which your culture is meaning that the needs of today's discerning workforce. You can find it at gustodashnow dot com if you are just now joining us. My guest is doctor Julia de Ganji. She is the author of Energy Rising, the Neuroscience of Leading with Emotional power. So for with the time we have left here, I think what would be great is let me let you choose which code or codes you want to talk about next. Which ones rise your energy the best?

35:38 Let me think about how much time do we have left? They've got about thirteen minutes, twelve minutes or. So, all right, let's talk about let's do so there's the book is divided into two parts. On the first five codes are about myself, like like I the individual, not MA me Julia. It's about my reliationship with myself. And the part two of the book has so there's eight codes total. The last three codes are about my relationship with other people. Let's try to pick one from my relationship with myself and the other one is my relationship with others. Love it. So I want to go back to this idea and I'll kind of try to merge a couple of them. I want to talk about this idea of uncertainty and identity. Okay, one of the things that's really interesting. Let me actually talk to you really quickly about how the brain is quite allergic to uncertainty.

36:33 So I think all of us kind of already understand, like, we don't love copious amounts of uncertainty. Well, there have been studies, so I'll talk about one in particular where people are brought into a lab and they are hooked up to this machine that administers electrical shocks. Okay, and this is not our study, but we had one of these electrical shock machines in our lab, and as the name would suggest, it hurts to be electrocuted very much. Okay. So they would hook people up to machines and they would say, Okay, the computer's going to count down five four three two one, and you're absolutely going to get shocked, or you're going to be in a condition where the computer is going to count down five four three two one and you may or may not get shocked. Now, it always kind of tickles me because people say, well, if human beings were really rational, they would choose to be in the condition where they may or may not get a shocked because there's a good chance they can walk away pain free. Except human beings do not statistically choose that. They choose to be in the condition where they are certain they are going to be administered in electrical shock. Now, when people say, like, oh my god, aren't humans so irrational and kind of like we eye roll and gaslight ourselves, this frustrates me a little bit because the machine, the machinery of the brain, is the most extraordinary, exquisite machinery on the planet. The brain is not making a mistake. We're just slow to catch up.

38:03 What your brain is telling you is that there are legitimate situations in the world where the emotional load of uncertainty is quite literally more painful than physical pain. Okay. And what kind of tells me about this experiment is like people were showing up that like UCLA or like the University of Michigan to do these Like nobody thought they were going into the lab to get murdered that day, do you know what I mean? Like they're going in for twenty minutes in a Starbucks gift card. So when you take that experiment, and you try to imagine transposing it into real life where the stakes are so much higher. Right.

38:46 One of the things that it reminds me of is you remember, kind of early in the COVID process, there were lots of people saying, I wish I would just get COVID so I could get it over with all this. Yes, yes, I heard people say that. Because if you think about this, and this is a really important piece of all of the human emotions, I would suggest to you that the most painful one is one we never really speak about because we don't even think of it as an affect of our emotional state. But it is. The brain knows what to do about happiness. The brain knows what to do about sadness. The brain knows what to do about fear. The brain knows what to do about suspicion. There's only one affective state that works against the fundamental machinery of the brain, and that affective state is confusion. Wow, your brain is going apple, apple, Apple, and it needs to predict. I'm mad, I'm mad, I'm mad, I predict I'm going to be mad. I'm happy, I'm happy.

39:48 I predict I'm gonna be happy. I'm suspicious. I'm suspicious. I'm suspicious. I predict I'm going to be suspicious. Your brain knows exactly what to do about that. What happens in the state of confusion is your brain goes apple, Apple, Apple, I don't know. Is it an apple, is it a banana? Is it a pen? Is it a coffee cup. So, just like the lungs are going to breathe, the prediction machine is going to predict. So we underestimate how difficult confusion, a lack of clarity and uncertainty is. Right. So what happens when we're not really intelligent about how to master our own nervousness, how to really lead our lives powerfully, is we keep trying to construct this certainty by overdoing it in the world. Okay, one of the things I encourage people to do is to do this thing called build a power pattern. The power pattern is really the I am identicisty. So when the world is uncertain, when the world is doing things that I don't like, when my spouse is annoying, when my kids are listening to me, when the people on social media are triggering me. Because here's the thing. On the days when the people are listening and the things are working and the people are co operating. Anybody can lead on those days. And once I work with Navy seals and they have a saying, anybody can be a frogman on a funny day. The

41:20 only time power really matters is on the days when I actually feel out of my power. So when I start to get triggered or I start to get afraid, who do I say? I am so my power pattern? And I'll show you. It has to be very simple. It has to be. It's not a complex paragraph or even am It's just a super simple statement. My power pattern is I am a global leader in emotional power. Now. The reason that this is so powerful is because it works. And this is how you're going to know it works. Is it works universally. Okay, So it's not when I'm on podcasts or when my hair and makeup are dog It's it's at every moment when I start to get triggered, I try to remember my power pattern. So I'll give you a recent example of this. I have two little kids, and my one of my children has is beautiful and wonderful and has a it's very easy for him to get disregulated. Okay, so there's lots of lots of big feelings, lots of very difficult days. So the other day he wanted to go to the batting cages and I didn't want to go. It was like so hot, but he I said, Okay, I'm gonna take you. Okay. So this batting cage, it's supposed to be a kid's badding cage.

42:43 It's like throwing major league heat, and my kid is just missing every ball. So I'm like, I'm starting to like sweat because I'm like, this is not gonna go well. So sure enough, he runs out of tokens and he's extremely distressed and he's saying very alarming things. He's saying very alarming things about himself. He's starting to, like, you know, cause a big So I'm having all kinds. I'm worried about how he's talking about himself. I'm starting to get a little bit self conscious that we're having this meltdown. And by the grace of God, I remember the power pattern and I say, I am a global leader in emotional power, and in that moment, I just by remember saying the statement, I was able to center myself and say, really is an eight year old's meltdown, gonna throw me totally off my game. And I just said, hey, I said, hey, let's just go sit in the shade. I didn't say knock it off. I didn't say. So I get him in the shade, kind of calms down a little bit.

43:38 I get him in the car. In the car, I cannot speak to him or we will have to. And I kind of know this, so it's hot. I say, I'm going to get a drink. He's like, I don't want one. That's okay, I'm gonna get a drink. So I go through the dunkin Donuts drive through and as I'm getting my coffee, I say to the guy at I say, hey, do you want to hear a joke? And the dunkin Donuts guy goes, sure, I want to hear a joke. And I said, what's a pig's favorite karate move that I don't know? I go a poor chop. So the guy's laughing. My kids starts laughing. And the second I see my kids start laughing, I know the whole situation has shifted. Why is this so powerful? It is so powerful for a few reasons. Because I was able to claim my identity in the midst of a situation that was causing me pain, I was able to draw on inner resources that had I not claimed identity, I would have capitulated and it would have been a nightmare.

44:36 And here's the bigger thing that I could almost weep saying what I did not do that day was I didn't I did not create trauma. Yeah, what's wrong with you? I didn't say you embarrassed me? Because here's the thing. When he's that distressed, do you know who feels the worst? Probably you? Well, he already feels terrible. Yeah. So when I'm able to claim identity, not only is it so beautiful for myself, it's so beautiful for the people who are looking to us where I for their sense of certainty and their sense of safety.

45:21 That's so stunningly powerful and beautiful and says so much about the power of your work, doctor Taganji. It's so incredible. Thank you, Yeah, beautiful, Thank you for sharing that. We really just have really now a couple of minutes left. But could you just at least sort of introduce one of the other three codes. Yeah, so I'll do this pretty quickly. So in the second half of the book, I talk about relationships and human relationships, all human relationships, every single problem, whether you're talking about with your kid, whether with your spouse, between countries, really can be distilled down to two competing drives of the brain. There is the neurobiological drive for connection, which is with us from cradle to grave. We see this very obviously in infancy, but we now study a lot about interpersonal neurobiology. So we know that our spouses regulate and disregulate our nervous systems, Our coworkers regulate and disregulate our nervous systems. We are herd animals, and our nervous system is affected by other people and we want connection to them. And equally powerful competing drive, though, is the neural biological drive for independence. Okay, so I joke. It's like everyone's going around being like, hey, I am a really great person to be in relationship with. I'm super flexible.

46:47 There's only one rule around here. We do everything my way. Sounds about right. So what happens is when you start to understand all conflict, what it really is at the neil level is this tension between the drive for relationship and the drive for self. And when we understand and I take you through three codes to really build skills. When we really start to understand how to reduce this tension and build capacity, we become more magnetizing leaders, and we develop much more enjoyable and satisfying relationships in the process. Okay, so that's incredibly powerful.

47:28 I did, let me say, if I can find this, I did think that this was such an incredible way to finish or at least toward the end of your book, this is here and this is we can finish this one that you could quickly comment on it. But you do talk about you say the world is waiting for people who aren't just aware of painful emotions, but ones who know precisely what to do about them. The world is. Waiting for you, and your most powerful service to the world doesn't require anything more than everything you already have. The world needs the full range of your energy. The world needs you to show them what to do with their fear, their rage, their inadequacy, their anxiety by watching you transform your own. If there's one message I hope you carry from the collection of these codes, it is this to lead powerfully, you must lead holy. It's when you realize that you are on this planet to embody the whole energy of your whole life, that you rise toward the only thing you've ever wanted anyway, yourself. And in these moments, as you rise to claim the most powerful version of yourself, you show everyone else the way home to that is so incredibly beautiful. You would you like to come on that they've coming to that before we close the show.

48:33 I just think that I think the greatest paradox of our lives and of the planet, if I can speak that boldly, is we're waiting for the realization. And I'm so ex I've watched this conversation about mental health unfold for quite literally forty years, you know, being a child and a psychologist, I think it's an extraordinary moment where people are talking about emotions in a different way. At it too, when we realize that the feelings that we think are here to torment us are really here to set us free. In that moment, the world profoundly changes.

49:14 It does. So much conflict is because we think we can't be what we all ready are. Why would a nervous system over one hundred and fifty million years of evolution conserve the ability to feel humiliation, to feel sadness, to feel grief like it's what it means to be human, and it's like pretending like I don't have a right arm. Why right? We have to close on that note, Doctor de Ganji, so incredible to know you, to learn from you, to be inspired, bing and shure with my listeners across the globe. Thank you for being on working on a purpose. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure absolutely. Listeners and viewers, you're going to want to learn more about doctor Julie de Ganji and the work she does at neuro Health Partners, helping people at work and at home to harness the power of the brain, beleed more satisfying and emotionally intelligent lives, and her book, So go to her website. It's doctor Julia de Ganji. Let me spell that for you d R j U l I A d I G A n g I doctor Julia Dganshi dot com. Last week, if you missed the live show, you can always catch it be recorded podcast or over where you get your podcast.

50:21 We are on your doctor Raj Susodia talking about his latest book, Awaken, The Path to Purpose, Inner Peace and Healing. What an honor to have him back on, have him share so deeply, so openly and vulnerably about his life and all he went through to become who he is today, speaking of identity, I dare say you will laugh, cry, and be inspired by the interview and his book, so check it out. See you next week for another vitalizing and uplifting conversation that will help you more meaningfully connect with your work while providing insight and creating destination workplaces where people can do the best work of their lives while becoming the best version of themselves. See you there. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance, and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's Work on Purpose.