Have You Given Up? Learn to Avoid “the Swipe” in Pursuit of Your Most Cherished Dreams

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FOURCY Radio. What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache
for meaning and purpose at work, to

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of an organization that inspires them and
helps them grow into realizing their highest potential.

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Business can be such a force for
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In our program, we provide guidance
and inspiration to help usher in this

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world we all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor Elise

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Cortes. Welcome back to the Working
and Purpose Program, which is then brought

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to you with passionate and prize.
Since February of twenty fifteen. Thanks for

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turning it again this week. Great
to have you. I am your host

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doctor at least Cortes. If we've
not met before and you don't know me,

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I'm an organizational psychologist and logo therapist, speaker and author. My team

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and I at Gusto Now help companies
to uenlive it and fortify their operations by

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building a culture and leadership activated by
meaning and purpose. Our mission is to

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help our clients create a destination workplace
where people flock to join, are intrinsically

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motivated to perform at their best,
can grow into their floor potential, and

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are committed to stay at Jenamic deliver
on the company's mission, which translates to

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higher profits for you. You learn
more about us and now we can work

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together at gusteaudeshnow dot com or Alascortes
dot com. Now getting into today's program

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with me tonight tonight is Tim Van
Dehey. He is a New York Times

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best selling ghostwriter and co author with
about seventy non fiction books to his credit.

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He is also the co author,
alongside doctor Tracy Mayleett, of SWI,

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The Science Behind Why We Don't Finish
what we start, which helps us

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to understand the science behind why we
quit on important life goals and projects,

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and how we can learn to avoid
this psychological phenomenon and stay on track to

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focus and realize what we actually want
in our lives. We'll be diving into

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its contents in today's conversation. Tim
jog is today from Kansas City, Missouri.

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Tim, Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thanks Elyse. It's great to

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be here. And I have to
say, go chiefs. Okay, we

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must say it, go cheese,
we must. I'm down with that.

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As I said to you before we
got on air, I really really enjoyed

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your book. You're in Tracy's book. I just really applaud what you've done,

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the research. You know. Increasingly, this show is really designed to

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showcase psychological principles that really elevate how
we perform and connect. And I got

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to tell you I learned so much
Tim that I hope will help me get

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my next book written. Well that
you know, that's funny, did you

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say that? Because that was one
of the one of the first directions we

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took the questions that led to this
book and was looking at you know,

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I live in a world of writers
twenty four to seven, including myself.

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So one of the first things I
drew on was, I know so many

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writers or or would be writers in
some cases, who are always talking about

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the work they're going to finish,
but never finish it. Yep. And

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so it's you know, which it's
a that's very much a thing. I

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mean, I have books I've never
finished, you know. And and so

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that that was one of the one
of the questions that sort of led us

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down the path to this book because
it didn't start out that the book you're

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holding did not start out as the
book you're holding. They started out as

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something different. Well, let's just
go there really quick. What what what

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was? What did it start out
as? That was? That was pretty

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much a leading kind of a kind
of a leader. Yeah, I got

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I gotta go there, ask Ball
across the middle of the plate. No.

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So, Tracy, doctor Tracy May, my writing partner, longtime friend

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and client. He and I had
written two other books together about employee engagement,

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you know, topic that I know
you're very familiar with, and we

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were the very beginning of twenty twenty, really before the world shut down.

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We met here in Kansas City,
and we talked about a third book,

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and we were going to do a
book about the employee side of the engagement

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question. The first two books we've
done a bit about the employer side,

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how to employers keep or attempt to
keep their people engaged and meaning, you

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know, and purposeful and enjoying the
work and you know, staying with the

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organization. And we had we had
this idea, We had a word,

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we had a swipe, which we
looked at as a shorthand for the distractability

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of most of us when faced with
the you know, the the infinite possibilities

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of the smartphone. Really, that
was what we came up with. And

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we liked the idea. We like
the concept, we liked the title.

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We thought, okay, we can
do something with that, and we mapped

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out a lot of ideas and went
our separate ways. And as the pandemic

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wore on, and as we sort
of chewed on the ideas individually, we

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both kind of reached the same conclusion, which was, this is not just

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a business book. This is a
sort of everybody book. That's right,

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right, because what we saw was
all the people. This was this was

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people we knew, This was people
we connected with professionally. This was stand

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up comedians we saw on Netflix and
YouTube and so on. Everybody was talking

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about the same thing. All the
things I had in mind to do during

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the when I was stuck at home, and all the stuff that I didn't

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do. I mean, Patton Oswald
has a great routine about it. We

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talked about, you know, you'd
see a man thirty pounds letter who had

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become an expert Italian baker, and
so on and so on and so on,

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and it was almost universal phenomenon and
the people not people having all these

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goals and not finishing some or most
or any of them. And we thought,

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there's something here that we're that nobody's
really tapped into. And that's of

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course for me, that's that's catnip, because when you're when you're a writer

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the nonf world, you're always looking
for an idea that no one else has

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really dug into, and someone else
had really dug into this specific phenomenon of

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why don't we finish it? Not
the same, it's not the same,

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is procrastination, it's something else.
Yes, So that was where the book

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became a bigger book. You know, it still has a strong organizational bent

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to it, but it's really a
book for anybody because I think I can't

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think of a person who doesn't deal
with this. Yeah, no doubt,

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Guilty as charged. Okay, well
let's get into it. I love hearing

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about where that came from. That's
fantastic. So what I thought was interesting

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is at first I thought this was
going to be, you know, just

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this idea of you know this swiping. I know what swiping is, of

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course, I know what that is
from an app advantage point. But for

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our audience, who hasn't yet read
your book yet, Tim, would you

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just define what you mean by swipe? What is swipe? Sure? So

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the act of swiping, we call
it the swipe as a noun, swiping

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as a verb is essentially it is
reflexive running away from things that we find

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uncomfortable, disillusioning, frustrating. The
reason that we used the words swipe,

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and the reason that we did not
run away from the connection to the smartphone

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is because the smartphone is what made
us think of it. The smartphone has,

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as lots of research has shown now, is sort of rewiring our brains

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to a degree. That's a bit
of an overstatem, but it's definitely rewiring

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our attention. It is affecting how
we pay attention to things, and it's

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affecting our perception of our options for
where to put that attention. So,

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because the swipe is an unconscious act, so all the infinite world that resides

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inside the smartphone. Over the past
you know what, has it been seventeen

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years since the introduction of the iPhone
has given us this unconscious sensation that if

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we're not comfortable with our current experience, it's simply the matter of swiping our

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finger or tapping an app that we
can change that experience. And we've gotten

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to the point where we do that
on We don't literally say I'm not comfortable

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on this date and swipe our phone
and expect to open our eyes and magically

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be somewhere else where we're not having
a bad date. That would be crazy,

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but we do it anyway. And
one of the best examples is and

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I've I've I've done this myself hundreds
of times, and I've every time I

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talk to this, talk about people
with this, I get a chuckle of

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recognition, which is if I'm writing
something, you know, spending my entire

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life on you know, typing on
computers, if I'm writing something by hand

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on a yellow pad or something like
that, if I make a mistake,

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I cannot tell you how many times
I have just for one split second,

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looked for the undue function, realizing
smacking myself on the forehead and saying,

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well, there's no undue function.
You dope. You're writing by pencil,

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and you have to erase and go
back. But that split second is the

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conditioning. That's the conditioning that says, oh, I can I can undo

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something I'm not happy with with a
simple flick of a finger. That's the

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thing we're talking about. So that
is swiping. Swiping in the context of

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this book, in particular, is
the reflexive, unconscious, instantaneous bolting from

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an experience that we are where we
are currently uncomfortable and how that affects us

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in terms of what we don't finish. Is finishing things we've never done before

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is hard, and it can make
us anywhere from embarrassed to feeling imposter syndrome,

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too frustrated, to disillusioned. And
in those moments we quit. Now

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frequently we regret it. That's the
downside, one of the many downsides.

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But in the moment we say I
don't want to do this anymore, and

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we immediately let it go. We
go on to something else, only later

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on saying, you know, maybe
I should have stuck up that workout program

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because I'd be in shape by now. Or definitely no, maybe I should

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have written those extra those last twenty
five thousand words. I'd have a finished

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novel by now. We don't get
there because we swipe. All right,

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Dan Pink wrote a whole book about
regreat just for that matter for us.

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Thanks Dan Pink. So a couple
things that you wrote along that line,

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because I had a whole idea of
you know, why is wiping so problematic?

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And you just laid that out for
us. We don't actually realize,

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you know, our dreams, our
goals, but I really appreciate what you

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also delin needed here. Let me
just read a couple things that really resonated

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for me here, Tim you say, swiping equals disengagement from the deep,

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meaningful experiences of life and work,
which inevitably leads to unhappiness and disappointment.

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I also might add misery. And
then the other thing that you said that

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I really align with, especially as
a logo therapist, which is about vitalizing

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through meaning and the need to be
of service to others. Is you say

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human beings are at our best or
striving working to overcome obstacles when our backs

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are against the wall, that's when
we find courage and creativity we didn't know

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we had. But without that tension
and resolution, it's easy to become apathetic

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and defeatist. Over time, this
leads to regret, dissatisfaction, and happiness.

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Amen. Brother, That's exactly how
I see it as well, and

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talk about it as well. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you

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know that's I mean, that's a
play on you know, that's a play

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on the old but very very true
idea that you know, growth happens in

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the uncomfortable. Absolutely right now,
I have two teenage daughters. I'm trying

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to share that with them all the
time, as far as you know,

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tackling new experiences like that's when you
feel that that sense of uncomfortable, of

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discomfort in the pit of your stomach, that's a signal to go forward,

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not to go back. I still
struggle with that. I mean, we

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all do well. I mean,
I've I have you know, I've I

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considered myself, you know, fairly
enlightened about my own responses to uncomfortable situations.

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But we all I struggle with that. I struggle to make myself remember

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that, as I think everybody does. And but that is that is the

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fundamental truth of what we of,
where where we should be, and what

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we give up, because as as
as I've said swiping the thing, the

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things that we that we want to
accomplish that we give up are in general,

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things that we've either never tried before
or things that are somewhat beyond our

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current capacity that we hope we can
develop the capacity to do. So a

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perfect example of that would be training
for some sort of event like a race

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or a marathon. Right when you
start off, you don't have the capacity

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to run that race. Otherwise you
wouldn't need to train the way you do.

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I mean, you might need to
if you've done one before, but

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odds are you have it. Most
people I know who've trained for a long

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race, once they do it,
they can't wait to do another one because

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they realized they could do it,
even for something as simple as a five

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k. So you have to get
into that mode where you're pushing yourself into

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uncomfortable territory with each and every training
run just a little farther, a little

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farther, a little farther, and
that, by definition is uncomfortable because you've

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never done it before. And it
gets even harder when the failures have been

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repeated, because then people start to
fall into fatalism. I know so many

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writers who, because they sort of
somebody writers I know, fails, They

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fall into that trap that being a
writer equals being a novelist, which drives

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me crazy. I've never written a
novel in my life. I've written all

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non fiction books, but yeah,
neither have I will probably And I know

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people who are not suited to be
novelists. They if they're good writers in

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their field, but they really,
really, they think I have to write

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a novel. I keep telling them
they don't, but for some reason,

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I don't listen to me. They're
like my daughters, and you know,

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but they but they've tried again and
again and again, and they keep failing.

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It's just not something that suits their
talent. And they have talent.

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But the more times they fail,
every time they fail, it drives it

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drives another another nail into that coffin
of their of their intention because they start

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to they start to believe fatalistically that
I can't do this while we do this,

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and eventually they just give up altogether, where and probably they give up

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entirely, they get a writing period
because they have this misconception. So you

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know, there's a tremendous amount of
growth to be had in those areas where

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we are striving and where we are
overcoming obstacles getting there, and accepting that

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that those growth experiences are going to
be frustrating and disillusioning sometimes is really what

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the book's about. Well, and
the reason I wanted to have you on

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Sam, especially once I really understood
what the book was about, is that

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I want to help more people realize
that game of life, that that one

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precious life that they have, what
do they want to do with that life?

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Right? So many people are walking
through dead, through life dead and

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they just don't know it, and
they're they're missing so much of their potential.

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And so what I believe you've done
in this book, Tim is I

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believe you guys together have created a
work that really helps us understand how our

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minds limit us and how can we
actually set ourselves on fire and achieve much

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more than say something Thos really extraordinary
people who walk the planet actually do,

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and I think that that's a tremendous
contribution. Well, thank you, that's

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awesome to do. That's what we
hope to one of the things we hope

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to do. Anyway, I know, I got it. I got it,

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man, I got the message.
I'm in. We wanted to shut

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light on something that nobody else was
talking about. You know. One of

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the challenges in writing this was there
is almost no research about this particular topic.

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So we had to sort of put
things together, you know, that

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were based on attention and some things
that were that looked at procrastination, and

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some things that looked at reward and
regret. You know, we had to

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sort of cobble things together because there
has been almost no research on this particular

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topic, which was both attractive and
a challenge. I gotcha. Well,

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on that note, let's let our
listeners and viewers just kind of think about

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where they might be stuck and missing
out and what they really want to accomplish

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and grab our first break. I'm
your host, doctor Reli's Cortez. We've

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got on here with Tim Vanda Hay. He's a New York Times bestselling ghostwriter

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and co author with seventy nonfiction books
to his credit. He is the co

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author, alongside doctor Tracy mayleett Swipe, The Science behind Why we Don't Finish

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what we start. We've been talking
a bit about where this book came from,

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why it's important, how all of
us are falling prey to swiping after

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rack. We're going to get into
learning how not to swipe. Stay with

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us, will be right back.
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing

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in meaning and purpose. An inspirational
speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer

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for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that

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elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment
within the workforce. To learn more or

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to invite a lease to speak to
your organization, please visit her at Elisecortes

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00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:45.399
dot com. Let's talk about how
to get your employees working on purpose.

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This is working on Purpose with doctor
Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

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00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.320
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to a lease a

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00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:11.559
LISEE at a Leastcortes dot com.
Now back to working on purpose. Thanks

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for staying with us, and welcome
back. To working on purpose. I'm

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your host, doctor Elise Cortes,
as I too, am dedicated to helping

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to create a world where people realize
their potential at work. They're led by

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inspirational leaders that help them find and
contribute their greatness. And we do business

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at Betters the World. I keep
researching and writing my own books, So

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the latest one that I came out
with was in March of twenty twenty three.

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It's called The Great Revitalization. How
activating media and Purpose can radically in

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liven your business. And I wrote
it to help leaders really understand the changed

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workforce and what it is they really
want from you. And then I'm giving

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you twenty two best practices to help
help equip your culture to create that for

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them. You can find more more
about my books at my website's gustodeshnow dot

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com or on Amazon if you are
just now joining us. My guest is

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Tim Vanda Hay. He is co
author with Tracy Mayleett of Swipe, The

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Science Behind Why We Don't Fit Ish
What we start so fascinating, and what

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I also appreciate here is that you
don't just tell us about how bad this

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is. I want to talk more
about some of the kinds of swipes and

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things like that. But let's first
start with a little bit of hope,

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shall we, and that is how
not to swipe? So you give us

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some interesting ideas around some swipe insurance
here, So how can we not swipe?

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That is the that's really the question, right and one one of the

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that's probably been the most common compliment
that's been been lovely to receive that we've

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heard from people who read the book, which has been you know, thank

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you for identifying something that I didn't
even know was a thing, and that

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there's actually that is that can actually
be changed, because the sense of helplessness

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around this is extraordinary. You know, as I said, the more people

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try things and fail at them,
the more fatalism kicks in. Faialism is

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really the final stage of swiping,
which is I I you know, I

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can't do this. I'm I'm it's
it's really a judgment of oneself. I'm

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not a writer, I'm not a
runner. I'm never going to be able

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to do X. I'm never gonna
I'm not I'm not a business owner.

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You know, Swiping effects all kinds
of things, including you know, that's

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that's starting that business that you've never
started that sort of thing. So yeah,

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there are a lot of There are
a lot of sort of base level

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UH skills, base level ideas.
One of the ones that that that we

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talk about in the book is what
we call we use the acronym deo d

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a IO, which means don't assume
you're the outlier. And I'm not going

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to sing the song because I'm not
Harry Belafonte, but you know, it's

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basically that you're not the only one
that everyone does this one. I mean

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we all do it, every single
one of us does it. But also

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the corollary to that is there's no
one solution that works for everyone. There's

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no one set of motivations. There's
no one set of plans or tools that

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got your neighbor going on his project
but doesn't necessarily work for you. It's

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a it is a bit of trial
and error. There is no one way

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to get this right. But when
you when we get to the to the

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big picture, there are really two
pieces to this that can help people manage

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swiping. One is to take conscious
control of expectations. Expectations are when it

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comes to to projects. Two goals
to purpose they're like they can be like

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land mines, and they frequently are. Because it's it's human nature to set

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our expectations higher. It's based on
not just higher, but based on what

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based on the ideal that we think
we can achieve, and of course if

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we fall short of that ideal,
we're disappointed. You know, if we

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lose a pound of a pound a
week instead of two pounds a week,

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well, a pound a week is
pretty good, but if your expectation was

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I'm going to lose two pounds a
week, you're going to be disappointed,

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disillusioned, and maybe quit. You
know, there's a there's a whole there's

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a whole linear progression of the swipe, and it goes like this. It

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starts off with what I call page
one energy, which is when you first

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start off doing something, even if
you've done it ten times before, you're

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fired up. You're convinced this is
going to be the time I get it

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right. That's what the expectations become
irrational frequently and you start off and what

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we call the downhill, which is
you're still fired up. Initially, it's

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new, it's interesting, you're getting
maybe you're not getting results yet, but

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things haven't gotten boring yet. You're
anticipating the results coming quickly, whether you're

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writing the first chapter of a novel, whether you're starting a workout program,

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et cetera, et cetera. And
it's easier in the beginning, and then

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eventually, usually a few weeks in, typically two three weeks into whatever it

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is you're doing, reality sets in
and you hit that bottom of the hill

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and start going uphill, and the
exaltation fades. You've written all the you've

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written the first fifty pages of your
novel, and you're out of ideas and

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you didn't do any planning, so
now what do I do next? Or

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you've worked out for two weeks and
you're still not jacked, because you don't

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get jacked in two weeks, and
you look at yourself in the mirror and

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go, what have I been doing
for the last two weeks? Busting my

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butt? And then it starts to
become work and you don't necessarily feel like

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you're getting anywhere, and you're huffing, and you're puffing, and you're on

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the uphill. You're on the uphill
now. And if you have expectations that

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are on in line with that experience, which is completely predictable, then you

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are almost certainly going to become disillusioned
or embarrassed and and swipe going to hit

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the eject button what I like to
call it, and say I'm done,

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I can't do this, and it's
you know, it's a reflexive thing.

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So managing expectations is critical. What
are your Are your expectations in line with

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with reality when it comes to a
what you're going to experience and be with

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what your results are likely to be. It's really it's incredibly important to to

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talk to other people who have tried
to do what you're trying to do.

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What was it like? What was
their experience like, what were the hours,

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what were what what? How did
they feel after a day of writing

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or a day of building their their
home home improvement project, or a day

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of working on starting their business?
And what were what were the results like?

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How quickly did they start to get
fit and lose weight? How quickly

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did they see a change in the
mirror, and so on. Having having

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expectations that are in line with reality
there congruent with reality is absolutely crucial.

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The other other half of this is
motivation, and motivation is a notoriously unreliable

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thing. You know. I'm actually
not a huge believer that motivation can make

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that much of a difference for people. However, it can make a difference

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if your motivation is the right motivation. What we see, unfortunately, is

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especially in the age of social media, as people doing things for the wrong

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reasons, not because they really want
it, not because they're they're not getting

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in shape because they want to be
healthy to watch their kids grow up and

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be able to play, you know, be able to play sports with their

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their son when he's in high school. They're doing it because of what their

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friends are doing, or they're doing
it because of what they see on Instagram.

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So the motivation has to be in
line with what really motivates you intrinsically,

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something you're passionate about, something that
you're purposeful about, something that you

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can't not do, and sometimes that
is not what you think you're supposed to

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do. One of my favorite sayings
to that I throw at my teenage daughters

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is stop shooting all over yourself.
You've probably heard that one. Absolutely that

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word should is a terrible word.
Strike it from your vocabulary just because you

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feel like you should write a novel
because everyone else you know, has doesn't

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mean that you should. It doesn't
mean that that's the best way for you

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to spend your time. Maybe you're
not a novelist, even though you wish

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you think you should be. That
is a terrible, terrible word. I

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wish people would stop using it.
So those are probably the keys in terms

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of sort of large scale self management
and self regulation that people can apply to

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giving themselves better odds of not swiping. Okay, got it, beautiful,

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Tim, That was extremely well explained. Okay, So as I as you

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going there, what I recognized is
you you were also helping us a little

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bit. You got halfway through the
hamster wheel, didn't you. So you

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went down the want and then you
went down the downhill, you went the

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uphill. So let's go ahead and
finish out the hamster wheel. So,

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ladies and gentlemen, what Tim and
Tracy have done is they have really helped

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lay out just what happens when we
when we swipe, and so you really

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recognize where you are in the process. So Tim just got us halfway through

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the hamster wheel. Now if we
take it all the way through, so

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we recognize what happens when we what
we do with that crossroads, So if

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you would finish that up for us. Now we've were stuck there, We're

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like, all right, I've spent
some time with this, I've toiled,

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and I don't like where I'm going. This looks like impossible. Now we're

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crossroads. What do we do?
Yeah, the crossroads, thanks for getting

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me there, because I got you
too. We got to continue that down

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that road or not, no pun
intended. Yeah, the crossroads is the

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classic you know road, not the
classic Robert Frost road not taken. So

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that's you know, that's the point
where you're faced with that, and then

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let me backtrack because the decision is
the wrong word. Here. You're faced

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with that and in some circumstances impulse. Okay, so let's so let's let's

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talk about the difference between the two. You are you have experienced that that

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that that exaltation, that dose of
reality in your face, where oh this

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is going to be so much harder
than I thought it was going to be

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and it's going to take longer than
I thought it was going to be.

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I've told people I'm going to be
done. Social embarrassment of big a big

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issue here. And then you reach
that point where you are tempted to swipe,

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where uh, the disillusionment, the
frustration, just the difficulty the effort

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reach a critical mass. The difference
here between decision and impulse is absolutely critical

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because that this is the point where
on one branch of this crossroads you go

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to the right. You continue trying
what you're doing, what you're trying to

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do, whether whether it's bumbling or
not, whether you're not know that you're

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sure what you're doing or not,
it doesn't matter. It's continuing that matters.

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It's effort and consistency that matters.
I mean personal trainers love to say

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consistent that Shakespeare and consistency, though
are to jewel. Consistency is everything,

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showing up is everything on the left
is probably not my left when I'm on

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the screen, but this is my
left. Is when you swipe and you

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say you're done, and you you
jump off, you jump off the wheel

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and you're and you're you quit yet
again, the difference there is impulse versus

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decision. The swipe is an impulse. The swipe is a it's an unconscious

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system, you know System one,
Daniel Connum and the system one. It's

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a reflex. It's not something that
you're in control of. It's something your

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brain is saying, act discomfort.
I don't like this. Eject button,

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and you're off and you're done,
and you do it without thinking about it,

404
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:57.319
and only afterwards you do you feel. We're back to that word,

405
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:02.559
which is regret. I cannot tell
you how many people I've talked to and

406
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.839
coached over the years as a writer
who have told me how much they regretted

407
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.440
stopping a certain manuscript part way through
because they didn't know where to go.

408
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:11.960
They put it down. Oh,
I'll get back to it. No you

409
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:17.720
won't. Oh you won't. You
really won't. You'll move on to other

410
00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:21.039
things, and you'll get back to
another two years later, thinking somehow it's

411
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:22.680
going to be different. It's not
going to be different, not until you

412
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.680
change. How you responded is to
these very natural feelings of discomfort. You're

413
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:32.440
getting get the same result, and
they regret because they if they had kept

414
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.400
going, the results would have been
completely different. They would have finished something.

415
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:37.240
I mean, that's why. One
of the things, one of the

416
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.079
things that spurred this was National Novel
Writing Month. I remember that, yet

417
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.799
we started the book talking to one
of the founders of National Novel Writing month,

418
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:52.440
and that exists because finishing something is
really what it's all about. It's

419
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.480
getting something done. I mean,
you know, with National Novel Writing Month,

420
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.279
quality is not the issue. Most
of those books are terrible. A

421
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:00.839
few of them have been good,
and most are bad. That's not the

422
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.160
point. The point is writing a
fifty thousand word novel in thirty days because

423
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:11.359
you want to finish something. It's
so that's that's such the holy grail for

424
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.519
people. Well, and the agency
that that gives for that person across the

425
00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:18.200
rest of their lives that they can
then activate. That's where I get excited.

426
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.000
Tim Well, it's a change,
I mean, it's it's an identity

427
00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:26.039
shift. Yeah, absolutely, No, I'm not a loser anymore. I'm

428
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.680
not a twitter I'm not a novelist, or I'm a marathoner. Yeah,

429
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.000
I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a small
business owner. It's an identity shift.

430
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.720
So, you know, going back
to the crossroads, the difference comes when

431
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:45.400
we when we have conscious control and
conscious igency control, conscious awareness of the

432
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:53.480
precursors to the swipe, those the
rationalizations and the self defeating language and all

433
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:59.400
of the clues that this is where
it helps to look at what you've done

434
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:06.079
in the past. How you know
when you when you're aware of of the

435
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:11.960
the conditions and the thought patterns and
the language that you use with yourself,

436
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.200
which is frequently so so self lacerating. I tell people all the time,

437
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.240
if you don't want to swipe,
one other ways not do it is to

438
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:22.000
be kind to yourself, Speak kindly
to yourself, make yourself talk you know

439
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:27.920
more more forgiving. But when you
start to see those signs that you know

440
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.799
you can you can identify when you're
approaching that swipe territory, when you're approaching

441
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:38.119
that same level that the discomfort is
building up until it reaches that critical mass

442
00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:44.519
and you slam the eject button.
You can make a conscious decision to say,

443
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:48.279
whoa, Okay, I know what's
coming. I'm not going to do

444
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:51.440
that. Instead of an impulse,
you're turning it over to system two,

445
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:56.519
which is the analytical, you know, the fore brain, the analytical executive

446
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:57.799
part of the brain that saying I'm
not going to do that because I know

447
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:01.319
if I go down this other and
keep going, yes, I'm still going

448
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:05.680
to feel discomfort, but I will
there is a growth at the end of

449
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:09.400
it. As psychologist Tracy knows the
exactly, but it's something like project to

450
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:12.400
the end or something like that.
I forget the exact term. I'm not

451
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:15.960
a psychologist, but you know,
if you if you look to to the

452
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:20.559
end of that path, you can
see. Yes, there will be other

453
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:22.119
points where you need to keep from
swiping. But if I get, if

454
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:25.279
I can keep going, I will
be changed. I will have a different

455
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:30.720
experience. I won't have regret.
I will finish this somehow, even if

456
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.480
I you know, even if I
run my marathon and come in last,

457
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:38.119
I finished. Who cares if I
came in last? I finished? So

458
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:43.640
critical And that's and that's that's life
changing. And on that note, let's

459
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:45.720
let our listeners viewers think about this
for a second. How can you change

460
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:51.519
your life by following what we're talking
about here in this book called Swipe literally

461
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:54.000
can change your life. I'm Eilis
Cortez, your host. We were on

462
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.720
the air with Tim Van der Hay. He's a New York Times best selling

463
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.759
ghostwriter and co author with seventy nonfiction
books to his credit. He's also the

464
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:05.799
co author, alongside doctor Tracy Maylett, of Swipe, The Science behind Why

465
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:08.160
we don't finish what we start so
after the break we'll talk a little bit

466
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:12.440
more about some of these things that
the kinds of swipes, so you start

467
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:30.839
to recognize, Oh, that's me. We'll be right back. Doctor Elise

468
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:35.920
Cortez is a management consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and

469
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.079
author, she helps companies visioneer for
a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

470
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:45.440
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that
elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within

471
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.960
the workforce. To learn more or
to invite a lease to speak to your

472
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:53.759
organization, please visit her at Elisecortes
dot com. Let's talk about how to

473
00:33:53.759 --> 00:34:04.799
get your employees working on purpose.
This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise

474
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:07.880
Cortes. To reach our program today
or to open a conversation with Elise,

475
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:15.079
send an email to Elise Alise at
eliscortes dot com. Now back to working

476
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:23.360
on Purpose. Thanks for staying with
us, and welcome back to Working on

477
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:27.440
Purpose. I'm your host, doctor
Elise Cortes. As I mentioned in the

478
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.440
last break that my latest book came
out in March of twenty twenty three,

479
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.639
The Great Vitalization. What I did
for you to go along with that is,

480
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:36.559
I created a three page assessment for
you. You can download it from

481
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:40.320
my website gustodesh now dot com,
and that will help you understand the extent

482
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:45.480
to which your current culture is actually
ready for today's workforce if you are just

483
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:49.000
now joining us. My guest is
Tim Vanda Hay. He is the co

484
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:52.639
author of Swipe The Science behind Why
we Don't Finish what we start. So

485
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:55.239
there's four things I want to be
sure and cover at this part of this

486
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:58.800
for this last little bit of our
of our show here, Tim, So

487
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.039
the first thing I want to cover
just quickly, would you just share a

488
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:05.239
few of the kinds of swipes that
you mentioned, And that looks like there's

489
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:07.440
about six or seven of them.
We won't have time to go through all

490
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.000
of them, but can you just
share a few of them? Sure?

491
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:15.920
Sure? A lot of these Number
one were named to be fun and memorable,

492
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:17.880
all right, got that, I
totally did. Yes. Number two,

493
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:22.239
A lot of these were named with
the organ with organizational settings in mind,

494
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.679
because you know, part of this
book was intended for people in the

495
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:30.159
workplace in a career in a career
setting. They apply outside the workplace,

496
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:32.239
but I think they're especially irrelevant in
the workplace, So let me just get

497
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:37.519
that that disclaimer in there. So
let's see. The most common one we

498
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:42.320
talk about is the intimate what we
call the intimidation swipe, and that's where

499
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:46.440
you're trying something that you that you
feel is beyond your capacity. Doesn't necessarily

500
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:51.000
have to apply in the workplace,
it frequently does. Someone is tasked with

501
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:58.320
a project or a role that is
that's difficult for them, that challenges their

502
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:05.119
abilities, and they fall prey to
lack of confidence, to imposter syndrome,

503
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:08.920
and they they you know, they
swipe and feel like I can't do this,

504
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:12.800
and they bail out on the project. But also applies to something like

505
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.440
again writing a book, training for
a marathon or something like that, anything

506
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:21.920
where you feel like this is I
don't I don't have the ability to do

507
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:24.800
this. The doubt creeps in and
then you're it's probably a lost cause at

508
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:29.440
that point because it's very hard to
recover that when you're when you're doing something

509
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:35.960
that's already hard. The progress through
that something generally doesn't make you feel more

510
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:39.480
confident in your ability to do it
if your confidence is already shaky. Another

511
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:45.639
one is the on what we call
the onwe swipe, which is you've gotten

512
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:51.719
through the initial phase and now it's
just tedium. It's you're slogging your way

513
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:59.559
through something that was once interesting and
fulfilling and now it is just it's boring.

514
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:02.440
It's uh. I compare this to
what I learned when I had to

515
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:07.079
learn to read music. It was
really cool, but at first, and

516
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:10.880
then it was just going through exercises
and after exercises, after exercises, and

517
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:14.480
I just did I wanted to be
able to know how to read music as

518
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:19.000
fast as my musician friends. And
it's just that is the point where he's

519
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.159
like, I can't do this anymore. I'm I'm you're You're this much closer,

520
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.679
but it's just so dull and so
uninteresting that you can't focus on the

521
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:30.480
goal. So that's the unwee swipe. I've got to talk about the inspector.

522
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.880
The the inspectors have air swipe one
is the one everybody seems to talk

523
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.159
about because of the name, and
this is the one that particularly applies to

524
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:40.920
writers in a lot of cases.
But it's when people fear reaching the goal

525
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:47.320
of air from you know, you
know, it's once he caught or once

526
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:51.519
he found out that he you know, that his his pursuit of Jean Valjean

527
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:54.360
was unjust over all the years basically
his life had no meaning anymore. He

528
00:37:54.440 --> 00:38:00.320
killed himself sorry spoiler alert. And
so this is a case where people are

529
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:05.880
afraid to finish what they what they
have been working toward, because then they

530
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:09.519
have to they have to perform,
you know, have to show. You

531
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:13.280
have to if you finish your novel, you don't get to be a novelist

532
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.559
in a novelist in waiting anymore.
I'm just working on my novel. You

533
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:19.400
get to tell people that for five
years. Once you finish, you have

534
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.480
to show it to people. Oh
my god, people might have to might

535
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.920
actually read it and give me feedback. Oh dear lord. No. So

536
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:29.719
that's that's an unusual one, but
it's definitely a real thing. We've seen

537
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:37.960
it in people. And I'll choose
one more. I think it's probably I

538
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.880
like I like the trapped animal swipe
a lot, which is the one where

539
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:44.480
someone is doing something. This is
this is one of the ones that comes

540
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:49.679
back to motivation. People who are
doing something not because it because they it's

541
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:53.000
meaningful to them, but because they
think they're supposed to usually usually to please

542
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:58.280
someone else or to make themselves look
good socially. So it's the the kid

543
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:00.960
who's going to law school who hates
the idea of law school, or the

544
00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:06.960
person moving, you know, relocating
to a certain place because their spouse wants

545
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.920
to go there even though they have
no interest in going there. That those

546
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:15.719
are very That's an incredibly disruptive site
because a lot of the time the things

547
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:22.639
that people are, the goals that
people are pursuing under those circumstances are huge,

548
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.880
you know, you know, getting
married, going to university, et

549
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:30.440
cetera, and going in that direction, and then then curtailing that can have

550
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:36.000
massive implications for you know, everything
from people's finances to their relationships. That's

551
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:38.760
that's a tough one. Okay,
that was great, Tim. I think

552
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:42.639
a lot of our listeners viewers that
can really resonate with, like, oh,

553
00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:45.480
I find myself in that, So
thank you for bringing it home so

554
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:49.280
they could relate to it even better. So two things left that I really

555
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:51.840
want to make sure and treating.
One is that I really love I love

556
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:54.760
acronyms, right, I love anything
that gives us access to do something with

557
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:58.719
an acronym. So, as you
said, you did write this book here

558
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:01.840
because you were initially starting to look
at employee engagement, and so of course

559
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:06.239
that's a lot of my jam.
So I really like what you came up

560
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:10.039
with here with this acronym, that
we can actually help employees find you know,

561
00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:14.480
meaning and find connection and engagement in
their work through this. It just

562
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:17.880
takes magic, that's all, and
just magic. And so will you talk

563
00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:22.159
us through your magic acronym here of
what that really takes to really engage the

564
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:27.920
heart's, mind, spirits, and
hands. Absolutely absolutely, So magic was

565
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:30.719
something that that's Tracy's brain child,
so I have to give him full credit

566
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:35.480
for coming up with that idea.
The acronym was actually believe it or not,

567
00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:37.119
most people don't believe it, but
it was. It was fortuitous.

568
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:42.199
Once were arranged the letters in the
right the right order, it became magical.

569
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:45.480
Wow, that's pretty cool. So
yeah, but that is the formula

570
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:50.920
for employee engagement. And you know, engagement is one of the one of

571
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:54.199
the antidotes in the workplace for swiping. If you're engaged, then you're going

572
00:40:54.239 --> 00:41:00.519
to persist through the discomfort, through
the frustration, through the disc illusionment.

573
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:05.480
So the M stands for meeting which
is about again finding meaning and what's the

574
00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:07.719
larger purpose, what's the larger reason
that you're doing what you're doing. And

575
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:13.719
these are all things that employers can
help employees find through various programs, but

576
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:16.559
it's also something things that there's all
the things that employee is happy responsible for

577
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:22.119
for themselves. They need to seek
seek them out and and lean into them

578
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:27.239
when they find them. The A
and magic is for autonomy, which is

579
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.400
the sense of being self directed.
I'm in charge of my I'm captain of

580
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:35.280
my own ship. I have some
ability to steer myself through my career and

581
00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:37.000
make my own choices. And it
could be as that could be as simple

582
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:40.320
as you know, being self directed
at work. You're not being a boss

583
00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:45.800
hovering over your shoulder all the time. G is growth, which is fairly

584
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:52.840
I think, fairly self explanatory.
It represents the opportunities to grow professionally,

585
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:57.920
to grow in terms of leadership,
ability, to grow in terms of you

586
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:04.679
know, personal personal skills and capacity. There should be the opportunity. Organizations

587
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:08.039
where people have the opportunity to grow
both as a person and a professional tend

588
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:15.280
to be organizations with high levels of
engagement. The eye is impact which is

589
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:21.159
people want to see that their work
has a positive effect on the world.

590
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:24.639
They don't just want to be nobody
wants to think they're just in a cubicle

591
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:30.639
farm shuffling widgets. They want to
see that the work actually impacts other human

592
00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:35.239
beings and impacts the world in a
meaningful way. And then see as connection,

593
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:38.000
which is connection with the other people
in the organization. It's that tribal

594
00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:43.199
band of brothers, we're all in
this together feeling. So when those five

595
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:47.159
things are present, when those five
qualities are present, people tend to stay

596
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:52.000
extremely engaged and they do not swipe, or at least they swipe much much,

597
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:55.440
much, much less. And of
course, you know today with the

598
00:42:55.559 --> 00:43:00.400
issues organizations have retaining talent, that's
an issue. Yeah, beautiful, Tim,

599
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:04.599
I think it's just it's I'm spot
on, totally aligned, completely love

600
00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:07.360
it. Now you've you've queued this
up for us, which I really wanted

601
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:09.360
to take home as well, because
I'm terribly peek about this. You may

602
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:13.599
may not know this, Tim,
but I am an identity and a meaning

603
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:16.199
and work researcher. So the identity
piece is really important to me. But

604
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:21.360
then you take it and you distinguish
happiness and a meaningful life. And I

605
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:23.920
think that we have to talk about
that because I personally think I align with

606
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:29.360
I forget what the name of the
author is who says that we're overly fixated

607
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:34.840
on happiness today. I completely agree
that we are. So could you distinguish

608
00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:39.960
for us the difference between happiness and
a meaningful life? That's a big one.

609
00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:44.199
Well, I mean, I think, you know, I think the

610
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:49.440
biggest difference when in the context of
this idea in this book is, you

611
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:53.559
know, happiness. I consider happiness
to be transitory. It's a transit,

612
00:43:53.599 --> 00:44:01.440
it's a trans state. I can
be happy temporary if I swipe, because

613
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:08.480
I have temporarily removed the discomfort and
the self doubt and the self laceration and

614
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:16.599
abnegation that I've inflicted upon myself by
stopping doing what I have decided is too

615
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:21.119
far out of my reach. Right, So, if I'm again going back

616
00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:23.599
to the same the world of the
novelist, if I'm seventy five or one

617
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:27.760
hundred pages into a novel that I've
been telling myself for five years, I'm

618
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.320
going to write, and I'm struggling, and I'm struggling, and I'm struggling

619
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:34.519
and I'm feeling like a fraud.
I'm feeling that strong sense of imposter syndrome.

620
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.079
If I say I'm done, forget
it, I'm not going to be

621
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:44.280
a novelist. I give up.
I make myself happier. Temporarily, I

622
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:49.320
have removed myself from that space where
I'm uncomfortable and filled the self doubt or

623
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:54.840
even self loathing. The problem is
it's a transient state. Where the meaning

624
00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:59.719
part comes in is later on,
what does that mean for my identity?

625
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:05.960
It means I quit again. The
implications for who I am and what I

626
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:15.239
stand for and what what I'm capable
of are not great because I you know

627
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:17.760
again, we're back to the art
word. Regret catches up with us.

628
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:24.519
Eventually when we persist in something that
we care about, our happiness temporarily might

629
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:29.719
go downhill. I mean, I, after this call, I'm going to

630
00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:34.280
go to the gym and I'm going
to curse a blue street by the time

631
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.199
i'm done, because I'm in my
tail on a hard ware because I'm going

632
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:39.880
to be sixty years old in January, and I'm working really hard to make

633
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:44.840
sure i'm a fit, healthy,
healthy sixty year old. And that is

634
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:47.719
miserable in the short term because I'm
on the floor in a puddle of sweat,

635
00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:52.719
gasping for air, wanting to due. But when I walk home,

636
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:54.039
because I walk on my gym and
I walk back. When I walk home,

637
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:57.920
I feel like a million bucks.
And when I get, I get.

638
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:00.159
I always get in the shower and
I pump my fin because it would

639
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:04.159
have been so easy for me to
walk away and make myself happier for that

640
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:07.320
long one and that was really too
hard. I didn't have to do that.

641
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.519
But in the long term I feel
better because I don't regret quitting.

642
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:15.360
I stuck. I stuck with it. I have a stronger sense of my

643
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:22.199
ability to persist and to do what's
important and to and that you know that

644
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.239
that comes back to meaning, because
that that informs my identity. That's about

645
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.599
who I am. I am I
become a person who can persist through that

646
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:34.840
discomfort and get and get things done
that are meaningful to me, in this

647
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:37.880
case my health and fitness. I've
become someone who can persist and get through

648
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:43.400
all the books that I have to
write and so on. And that you

649
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:49.159
know that that meaning, meaning lasts
meaning an identity are persistent and they last

650
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.199
a lifetime. Happiness doesn't, right, And I like the distinction that you

651
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:57.920
talk about happiness being in the present. It's temporal, but meaningful life is

652
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:01.280
really in the incorporation of the past, the present, in the future,

653
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:07.159
and it incorporates the harder stuff that
we get through as well as the stuff

654
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:09.599
that's pleasant. And I think that's
really important to emphasize. And it comes

655
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:14.679
and it comes back to your to
your story. Yeah. Surprisingly, I'm

656
00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:20.920
a believer in story. And there's
a reason that our best stories about ourselves,

657
00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:25.039
travel stories things like that are always
the stories where something goes wrong.

658
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:30.360
You know what's see, there's an
old there's an old joke that says alcohol

659
00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:36.840
because no one ever said and then
I went home that's part of story.

660
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:39.039
Or no they said, no good
story ever ended with and then I went

661
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:44.159
home, right right, that's right. None we're listening to anyway. Stories

662
00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:50.440
are always where something went terribly awry, everything went to hell, and we

663
00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:57.199
had to find a way to persist, to keep going, to clean up

664
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.960
the mess and come out at the
end, going got through that one.

665
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:06.159
You know, the travel stories of
being stuck in the airport for seventy two

666
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:08.599
hours of whatever it is. I've
had my own stories. We all have.

667
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:12.880
But there's a reason that we tell
those stories. We don't tell the

668
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:16.039
easy stories. That's the right.
Easy stories are boring. But also those

669
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:21.159
those stories don't don't reveal anything about
us to us or to others. It's

670
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.679
the stories. It's that sense of
story that says I got through this,

671
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:31.880
I survived, I found a way, and that that define Those things define

672
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:36.519
us, They define our identity and
they they're what shape the meaning that the

673
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:38.920
meaning we bring to our lives.
Well, and that's what I think the

674
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:42.880
promise of your book is, Tim. You know that you really have given

675
00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:46.920
us a way of first understanding why
we trip ourselves up and what can we

676
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:51.079
do to intervene in that process?
And you talk about this and I think

677
00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:54.000
this is an incredible way to finish
a book that you could really change the

678
00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:59.880
trajectory of an individual life and that
of society. That's big, Tim.

679
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:04.480
Yeah, you're really well. If
if you think about how many projects go

680
00:49:04.599 --> 00:49:09.320
unfinished, how many goals you want, it's it has to be staggering,

681
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:14.719
all right. Multiply that by just
you know a family or you know a

682
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:17.000
community or whatever. But yeah,
I just take the problems we have with

683
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:21.679
healthcare in the United States. You
know, if you if you took twenty

684
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:24.360
percent of people fitner and healthier.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sorry,

685
00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:28.119
Tim, we've totally run out of
time. Oh my gosh, No no,

686
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:30.760
don't don't apologize. This has been
great, but we got it.

687
00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:32.079
We got to conclude here so we
can get on with with with the next

688
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:35.760
show here and let our listeners know
how to find you. So, Tim,

689
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:37.519
I'm so happy that I found you. I came knocking on your door.

690
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:39.440
I believe it was no no,
somebody sent me your book. You're

691
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:43.159
peride person did, But then I
followed up because I wanted to have you

692
00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:45.360
thank you for being on working on
purpose. It has been amazing to have

693
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:50.159
you. Thank you. It has
been an amazing experience being here. Listeners

694
00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:52.280
and viewers, you are going to
want to follow up with this man,

695
00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:55.800
Tim van de Hay and Tracy Maillett. Probably the best place to start to

696
00:49:55.840 --> 00:50:00.480
find them would be Tim van de
Hay. That's Tim's personal site. It's

697
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:04.800
Tim and then Vanda Hay is v
A N D e h e y,

698
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:08.840
So Tim Vandahey dot com. You
can also find them at swipethebook dot com.

699
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:12.719
If you missed the show last week, you'd always catch a via recorded

700
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:15.760
podcast. We were on air with
Facial Hope talking about one of his books

701
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:22.000
called Everything Connects, Cultivating mindfulness,
creativity, and innovation for long term Value.

702
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:23.880
Next week, we'll be on the
air with Jeff Wetsler talking about his

703
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:29.840
new book Ask Tap into the hidden
wisdom of people around you for unexpected breakthroughs

704
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:31.960
in leadership and life. See you
there, and remember that work is one

705
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:36.519
of the best adventures and means of
realizing their potential and making the impact.

706
00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:42.559
We crave. So let's work on
Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's

707
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:45.599
program. Be sure to tune into
Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor

708
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:50.599
Elise Cortes, each week on W
four C. Why. Together, We'll

709
00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:54.800
create a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance, and

710
00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:00.280
employees are fulfilled in work that provides
the meaning and purpose they crave. See

711
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:06.960
you there, Let's work on Purpose. M HM.