Focus Upstream: Equipping Your Team of Decision Sprinters to Drive Innovation and Performance

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What's Working on Purpose? Anyway?
Each week we ponder the answer to

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this question. People ache for meaning
and purpose at work, to contribute their

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talents passionately and know their lives really
matter. They crave being part of an

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organization that inspires them and helps them
grow into realizing their highest potential. Business

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can be such a force for good
in the world, elevating humanity. In

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our program, we provide guidance and
inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want Working on Purpose. Now
here's your host, Doctor Release Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose
program, which has been brought to you

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with passion and pride since February of
twenty fifteen. Thanks again for tuning in

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this week. Great to have you. I'm your host, Doctor at least

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Cortez. If we've not met yet, you don't know me. I'm a

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management consultant, organizational logotherapist, speaker
and author. My team and I at

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least Cortez and associates help companies to
enlighten and fortify their operations by articulating their

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purpose and building inspirational leaders and cultures
activated by meeting and purpose to turn those

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companies from a flatline EKG to a
vibrant destination workplace. There people are intrinsically

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motivated to perform at their best,
grown to their full potential, and are

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committed to stay and dynamically deliver on
the company's mission. You can learn more

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about us and now we can work
together at at least cortez dot com.

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Now getting in today's program we have
atif Rafiq. He's the author of Decision

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Sprint, the new way to innovate
into the unknown and move from strategy to

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action. He's the founder and CEO
of Ritual, a new software app,

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and an advisor to startups like SpaceX
and Headspace. Throughout his career, Rafik

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has shown passion for driving companies into
the future. He has blazed trails in

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Silicon Valley in the Fortune five hundred
for over twenty five years. After rising

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through digital night native companies like Amazon, Yahoo, and Aol, he held

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C suite roles at McDonald's, Volo
and MGM Resorts. Rafik Has was the

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first chief Digital Officer in the history
of the Fortune five hundred, a pioneering

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role he held at McDonald's, and
he was most recently president at MGM Resorts,

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a Fortune five hundred company. Today
for the conversation, he joins it

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from Chicago ATIF. Welcome to Working
on Purpose. It's great to have you,

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Aliz. It's a pleasure to join
you. Thank you so much for

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having me. You're welcome. Let's
show off this beautiful thing you created,

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shall we? You know I say
this often because I usually feature authors ATIF,

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and I want you to know,
as a mother and as a woman,

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what you did here is harder than
bringing it a child to the world.

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You do not know that, right, I was very kind of you.

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I wouldn't know how to relate the
two, but don't point out what

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to say to just leave that alone. Well, it's wonderful to have you.

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I learned so much from my guests. I was just on with another

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guest in Australia that I had on
a couple of years ago. I get

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to know my guest well and stay
in touch. So I'm looking forward to

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learning about you. And so to
start, I think we need to before

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we even get into what you were
doing at Silicon Valley, I think it

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makes sense to just start with why
did you pursue technology? Why that?

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Why not art? Why not architecture, why not marketing? Why technology?

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Well, I had started in the
Internet pretty early. It was nineteen ninety

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six and I did my first job
at Coleman Sax and I didn't like it

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very much. So I I kind
of took a calculated that that technology,

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you know, would be a space
where I could be more creative. And

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I got started by writing a cold
or and mailing it to Steve Kase who

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was the founder of AOL, and
he actually read the letter. He gave

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it to someone else at the company
and I got a call. And so

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I was lucky enough to get my
foot in the door and the Internet when

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I really didn't have much experience,
and learned a lot through you know,

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AOL, which was a very formative
company of its time, but since then

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I haven't looked back. So basically
I was able to find, you know,

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strong connection and meaning with this thing
called the Internet, you know,

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around all the possibilities, whether it
be commerce or communication or you know,

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media, and I just saw that
as like an unending sort of creative space,

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and obviously that's what it's turned out
to be. And my start really

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came from this calculated bed of saying, Okay, well I'm early in my

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career, let me at least try
a thing, because then i'll know if

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I really, you know, I
won't have any regrets. And it turns

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out I didn't. From from that
perspective, well, I think that this

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this is quite an interesting and suitable
place to take all of it intellect and

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creativity of yours from what I could
tell from your book, So kudos for

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figuring that out so early. So
you have got in a market reem just

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remarkable resume. I mean, all
the different companies you've worked for amazing.

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So what I want to understand too, is just how did you make the

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shift from working in Silicon Valley to
the Fortune five hundred and just a little

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bit about you know, what have
you brought? I mean, your book

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says this so beautifully that now the
listeners and viewers who haven't heard this yet,

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this will be new for them.
I read it, but let's hear

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it. Sure well. You know, I had a metaphor morphosized a couple

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of times in my career. I
talked about the first one, which is

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basically like more of a banking career
into like, okay, let me do

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something that gives me a meaning where
I understand the product, like the product

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that we're providing to customers. And
that was sort of you know, internet

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based companies. So that that was
the first metamorphosis. Then I thought I'd

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be doing that forever because I really
enjoyed it, and I was general manager

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leading a business unit at Amazon.
And but of course the world keeps evolving,

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and so in twenty thirteen, about
ten years ago, every company,

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even company with that are not needed
technology companies at the heart began to see

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that their futures were impacted by technology. It could mean their customer experience,

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their business models, something was going
to be disrupted, and they needed to

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rethink, you know, the core
of the company around technology and physicization.

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So at the time, the CEO
McDonald's had a strong vision, didn't know

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exactly what it meant, but didn't
know that technology would be very meaningful for

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the future of the company, and
decided that he wanted to recruit somebody either

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at a Google or Amazon. And
I had the opportunity to not only join

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McDonald's and become the first CDEO in
the history of the fourtune five hundred,

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but basically take this calculated bet where
I could bring Silicon Valley thinking to a

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well known global company that is very
good at other things like execution and operations

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and see if that formula, that
mix of ingredients could help the company grow

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in the next era and really set
it up for the next twenty years and

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the areas I was responsible for.
So I made a metamorphosis. I calculated

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bet that you know, that would
be a skill set where could be valued

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not only on McDonald's but even other
industries. And that turned out to be

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the case where you know, I
went on to automotive and then resorts and

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all kinds of companies in all industries
will obviously look at technology as a disruptive

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force. They want to rethink their
core products and services around technology. So

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that's sort of my metamorphosis over ten
years, and now I'm working on my

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next ten yere metamorphosis. Yeah,
I want to applaud that too. If

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you know that one. It just
it sounds like like you've had really great

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jobs of fun and in the process
really true, really move the needle.

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I know what you did to McDonald's, for example, in the Volvo work,

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it's just incredible, right, But
I just really want to acknowledge an

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applaud that I just you know,
as someone who really believes in the world

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of work and that shouldn't be a
bad four letter word but an actual playground

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in which to realize your potential.
I just really want to applaud what you

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have done for your for your for
your own career, and what you've done

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for the industry. Just really so
inspiring. That's super kind of you.

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I really appreciate it, and you
know what, it means a lot to

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me because when you're a little bit
of a pioneer. I don't want to

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label myself as a pioneer, but
basically, you take a risk, you

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know it may work out. I
mean I'll work out, you know,

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a couple of things need to go
right, you look like an all star.

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A couple things don't go your way, you look like you know you

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made a bad move right. So
you don't really know what's going to happen,

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but you try and say, well, just a couple of things that

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they line up, this could basically
really be the next wave of how things

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are going. And so you know, that's how I look at decisions as

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well. You know it's making kind
of calculated bets because there's no bulletproof you

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know, guarantee that something will work
out. But if you can bet on

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yourself and you get the right support
from some colleagues or some and some other

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kind of keep players around the table, no great things can happen. And

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you are living proof of that.
So somewhere along the way, I've come

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to understand by reading your book and
listening to some of the other things you've

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done, you started to figure out
that the way that you were working with

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teams you could be shared as a
method. And that's of course what you

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call decisions. Friends, So help
me understand when did this occur? For

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when did the aha hits you that
there was something about the way that you'd

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learned to work with teams that you
could actually start teaching other people how to

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do in other organizations. That's a
wonderful question because I didn't realize it until

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late in the game. I mean
I had been doing something that they didn't

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have a label for, which is
really interesting to me because you could be

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doing something for ten years and as
producing results for the company. It's making

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you know, it's allowing teams to
do better work and their best works.

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It's building your profile and your credentials
in the marketplace. Like all these good

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things are happening, but you don't
really have to. You haven't been able

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to step back and reflect on what
is that thing? Until you know,

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maybe you get a break, And
I had a break about two years ago

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where I got to look at that. So for a majority of my career,

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I would say I was always focused
on the what versus the how.

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And let me explain what I mean
by that. You know, if you're

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at McDonald's and you talk about disruption, you're talking about the customer experience and

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how technology will make things more convenient. You're talking about introducing new ways of

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using McDonald's, new service models.
That's the language that I was using when

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I was doing my job there,
and that's really the what. You know,

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what you're doing for the customer,
but how you go about these innovations,

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how teams problem solve and figure out
how do you go from a raw

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idea to making something real and actually
having it make impact and even before you

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get there, having it set daylight
because you got the organization to say yes

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and believe in it. That is
the how. So it's there's the what

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and the how. And for a
majority of my career I thought my job

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is to be, let's say,
the main person having a vision for the

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what. You know, what do
we want to be when we grow up?

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What is it going to look like? Revolving? You know, what

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is a great car, new way
to get cars to customers or sell cars

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for example? What does that look
like? So it's all about the what.

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And in doing this work, about
ten years into transformation, I realized,

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actually it's the how. It's you
know, it's independent of the category.

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It could be resorts, it could
be burgers, it could be you

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know, autonomous vehicles. But in
what's common across all this is we have

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a right idea, but in the
in the beginning. We have a lot

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of unknowns, a lot of things
to sort through, and we want to

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figure out how to get to you
know, the recommendations we're going to make,

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what the forts in the road are
that we're going to take, How

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to get the organization to say yeah, that makes sense, and how to

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unlock a decision making so we can
get onto action and be very confident in

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the actions that we're taking. That
is a whole activity, And when I

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wrote my book, I started with
giving that a label, and I call

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that upstream work. Upstream is basically
the part where you're still trying to figure

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out what what is it that you
know, what is our direction? And

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it comes before the downstream part of
execution. That's definitely one of the concepts

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in your book that I found really
really intriguing outif it's just in this notion

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of what you've situated there and you
actually say in your book, you say,

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perhaps my counterintuitive message to experience speed
and quality and decision making, organizations

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must start further upstream. Too often
companies are cavalier or circular about how they

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handle unknowns. That's when it's time
to make a decision and they're paralyzed or

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they blender into poor decisions. I
think this is really a very interesting idea

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that you're putting forth, this counterintuitive
message. Yeah, you know it's it

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is a little bit counter intuitive,
I think because when people talk about decisions,

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they think about the decision point,
which is, you know, when

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you're you know what your choices are, at the point in which you have

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to pick one, basically, and
unfortunately, that is way too late in

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the game to actually put yourself in
a position of confident decision making, because,

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as anyone who's been in a meeting
where decisions are being made will be

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familiar with, you know, meetings
that don't go as well because people start

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poking holes, pointing out blind spots, or being confused, like, how

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did you arrive at this conclusion?
Here, show me how you got there

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right, connecting the dots. And
if you spend a one hour meeting,

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he spent ninety percent of it explaining
how he got there, as opposed to

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the very high stakes decisions that are
needed yes or no, then that's probably

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the wrong mix. And the reason
why it happens that's a symptom of a

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problem is that there's there's work further
upstream, which maybe wasn't done as well

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as it could have been. So
the counterintuitive message is to be at a

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point where you can take confident decisions
and have let me just say, drama

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free decision points. You start further
upstream when it's okay to have a lot

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of ambiguity as long as you know
how to make that uncertainty actionable. And

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the weeks and once the teams spend
trying to wrestle with ambiguity, they do

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a really good job of reducing that
ambiguity. And that's why I coined the

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term upstream work and kind of illustrated
through a few three three phases and thirteen

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workflow. Basically, we will dig
more into that. Let's go ahead and

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grab our first break. I'm your
host, doctor at least Cortez. We're

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around the air with antif Rafiq.
He's the author of Decision Sprint, the

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new way to innovate into the unknown
and move from strategude to action. We've

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been talking a bit about his early
career and Redish book came from after the

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record to dig more into these concepts. Stay with us, we'll be right

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back. Doctor Elise Cortez is a
management consultant specializing and meaning and Purpose.

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An inspirational speaker and author, she
helps companies visioneer for a greater purpose among

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stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and
meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

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and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite a lease

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to speak to your organization, please
visit her at Elise Cortez dot com.

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Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is working

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on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez.
To reach our program today or to open

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a conversation with Elise, send an
email to Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez

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dot com. Now back to working
on Purpose. Thanks for saying with us.

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I'm welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise

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Cortez, as I'm also dedicated to
creating a world where people actually want to

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come to work and realize their potential, are led by inspirational leaders that help

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them find and contribute their greatness,
and we do this as a better as

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the world. I continue to write
my own books, and so my latest

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one is called on the Great Revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose can radically

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enliven your business. It came out
in March twenty twenty three, and it's

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designed to help leaders understand what's happening
in today's workforce and then offers twenty one

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best practices to help equip them provide
that through their ear, LEADERSIP and their

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culture. You can learn more about
my books and how to find them at

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at least grotest dot com if you're
just now joining us. My guest is

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atifra Fik. He's the founder and
CEO of a Ritual, a new software

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app and the advisor to start upside
SpaceX and Headspace, and the author of

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Decision Sprint, the new way to
innovate into the unknown and move from strategy

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to action. Okay, so the
next part I want to get to which

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I think is really really interesting about
your book. And there are so many

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things and you'll notice we know I
sent you some of the topics that I

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wanted to talk about. There's kind
of a sprinkling here. And the reason

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I do that is because I like
the conceptual stuff that you talk about,

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and I also like it to be
able to get into your model. But

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one of the things that I think
is really interesting that you also treat is

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being able to deal with this idea
lens of uncertainty and not getting stuck between

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the two extremes of either blank check
autonomy or corporate micromanagement. So could you

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speak a little bit about it,
because this is where you get into,

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of course, your actual methodology.
So if you could kind of paint the

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picture, you know, of how
organizations find themselves in this this uncertainty and

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how your system of decisions print actually
treats that well. In the book,

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I talk about the two common reactions
to unknowns, which are either fear or

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not having enough fear and being too
cavalier about it right trying to identify the

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sweet spot. But the first two
things I talked about I think people will

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recognize because the on the one hand, you know, a reaction of fear

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causes companies to shrink their ambition before
they actually really get going. So the

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idea sounds really interesting, But what
we that would happen only if we focus

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on the known commodities, like what
do we already know how to do well?

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And you would shrink your idea and
your ambition to really, you know,

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essentially make it. You remove the
risk and the and the problem with

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that for everybody is that you still
do a ton of work. But then

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once you ship turns out to not
be a needle mover, employees aren't happy

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because, you know, when they
tell their families what they're working on,

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what they worked on the last two
years, it's kind of like a you

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know, a honor, right,
it's not meaningful. It didn't move the

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needle, and you don't feel good
about that as an employee, right because

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you're still working, you know,
pretty intensely, you know, over long

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periods. So we don't want to
water down the ideas, but at the

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same time, we don't want to
be cavalier about about things and say,

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okay, you know, we hope
it works out where basically you kind of

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get teams so much autonomy but without
asking the hard questions and poking the holes

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where they wind up maybe producing a
cool looking prototype, but then you know

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it doesn't pass muster because some hard
things haven't been thought about. You know,

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those hard things need to be thought
about to make the idea stronger.

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And so the middle ground here is
essentially starting with questions and saying it's okay

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to have space where we have a
lot more unknowns than knowns, because that's

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what we're spending time on is building. We're exploring these unknowns. We're doing

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an exploration where we're trying to make
sense of these unknowns, get our head

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around them, gather a good fact
base, maybe a good reasoning and critical

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thinking process to kind of put the
puzzle together. And this exploration is going

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to give us a lot more clarity
on what conclusions we should draw. This

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is harder than we thought, easier
than we thought. This is doable.

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This is more expensive and less expensive
than we thought. You know, you

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can actually you should draw the conclusions
once you've actually explored the key unknowns or

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questions. Is sort of where what
I start with that why is this news?

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Because often we don't allocate specific space
to source questions, input and make

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them actionable before we rush to judgment. A lot of times in companies,

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we rush to judgment before we actually
do the exploration. And that's what I'm

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trying to offer as a rung sequence, and there's a right sequence to improve

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it for everyone. M Okay,
two things. At first, it occurs

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to me to ask you you have
you're really serving up something here that's really

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near and dear to my heart and
when that comes around to potential. So

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I wonder if you have any sense
at all of just how underutilized innovation and

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creativity occurs in most companies because of
this, you know, inability to do

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what you've you've learned how to do
any sense of that. My senses as

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massive, massively that's what I guess
too, but massively underd utilize because you

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see, and it's really a shame. And the next hour of business I

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think will be very different kind of
because necessity is the mother of invention,

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and uh, you know, whether
people came at it from a principal standpoint

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or because we just needed to help
the companies grow, it's going to it's

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going to have to be quite different. But my perspective it is that basically

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the way you help people realize their
potential is you unlocked. You need to

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really unlock their intellect because people do
not feel value if they know something or

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believe something and they can't get it
on the table, or if they got

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it on the table and it didn't
influence or get integrated into the company's thinking.

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Now that's not to say that every
single person is right about their input,

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but that input needs to feel we
need to be able to have a

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way to surface it and then discern
through it to say, oh, well

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it was relevant or not relevant,
and if it was relevant, then it

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gets integrated into the thinking. But
the thing that makes us all feel sort

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of like intellectually not engaged is when
we can't offer that or it was relevant

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and we offered it, but it
didn't impact the thinking of the company.

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This is a shame, and this
is Goodly leaders recognize that they have a

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way of actually making sure that you
know, you bring out the best the

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people, specifically around engaging their their
input. I think their good leaders are

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obsessed with input and looking for the
right inputs. And then the second thing

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that comes to my mind is you
know, of course, or if you

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heard my introduction to to the program, but I really do believe that in

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business as a force for good,
it's just a force in the world.

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And of course it's quite obvious to
me that what you're doing you have an

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opportunity to greatly expand the impact the
contribution of companies, which you know,

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those leaders, those founders that started
that organization, the leaders in that organization,

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everybody that's part of it. To
be able to recognize we're part of

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something great. We did something really
great. We didn't just sort of move

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the needle a sub agenship a little
couple of externs products. We created something

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grand and I think that's really exciting. A defense you can that you are

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providing this way of thinking and innovating
today to companies at least we are totally

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on the same way length. I
mean, my motivation is a big part

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of it is that we need to
realize that work is a human experience and

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that because it's essentially knowledge work,
and companies that if you bring out the

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best and people's ability to contribute to
the thought of the company and make that

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thought better, and then that releads
to better results, that we feel better

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fulfilled as employees and we are happier
in our lives, able to give more

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to our families, to our communities, etcetera, etcetera. That's why business

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is a force group for good because
helping someone basically you feel alive through you

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know, a good thinking work right
and thinking work that that had an impact

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is a great way to make you
know, I make people more more satisfied

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and more willing to kind of kind
of give you of themselves. So I

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think it's a It's a big part
what I'm trying to do is make sure

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that instead of getting a fraction out
of people's potential, we actually get it,

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you know, as much as possible
for everyone's benefit. I love it.

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So you got you got a lot
of work to do. Latif you've

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got a lot of work, you
hope you've got a lot of energy because

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you've got a lot of work to
do in the world. Uh. One

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of the things I've also really enjoyed
about your book is that I like how

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you situated your interviews with your with
the leaders that you worked with in these

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various companies. And the one I
want to call out here, one of

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the conversations that you showcase is the
one with the CEO of Vovo, and

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I thought it was absolutely delightful that
you suggested to him that his title not

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be CEO but clarity of Thought.
And I thought and that he actually he

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did, he took to it.
So if you speak a little bit to

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where that idea came from and why
you feel so convicted on that, well,

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it was kind of a random interaction
where you know, I needed to

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talk about certain initiatives that we're working
on. They were quite strategic and was

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top of mine for a hawk On
silence, and you know it was bole

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of CEO was changing the culture,
and part of it his idea was maybe

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removing titles from the executive team and
instead too and I guess in your language,

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give each person a mission or a
purpose statement, you know, and

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that so he wanted to start with
himself. I'm like, okay, if

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I don't call myself president, what
is my purpose? And I said,

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okay, well, you know you
should ask farious team members, but I

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can tell you from my Amazon experience, I wanted once her job. Basios

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say that his purpose as founder and
CEO of the company was to promote clarity

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of thought. And that really struck
stuck with me and struck me, and

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so I suggested to hawk On then
maybe he considered that and he liked it

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because he was That's pretty much what
he was doing anyway with teams across this,

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you know, mega company of fifty
thousand employees. Is he wasn't telling

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people what to do. I'm the
CEO, this is what I want.

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He was always trying to understand how
are they thinking about what they're responsible for?

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And trying to make it a little
bit better, fine tuning their thinking

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basically, and so I just gave
a name to something that he was pretty

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much already doing. He liked it. So he basically kind of if he

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went through the corporate website of bolthough
you'd see it didn't say that he was

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CEO, he would say, you
know something along the lines of this,

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like this tagline, that he was
the person it was promoting clarity of thought

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or that was his purpose in the
organization. And so more kudos to him,

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I think for you know, for
all the different aspects of that where

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it made it clear what his style
of leadership, what he was trying to

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do with his leadership style. I
like to that was just beautiful how you

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brought that to light. I like
to that you also situate in that section,

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is you know that you connected the
idea that a CEO's highest contribution is

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to calibrate the thoughts of the organization, to straighten out any clumsiness from them,

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and to make that understanding that make
sure that understanding is driven into the

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teams. I think that is really
crisp, and again I don't think that

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I've seen that very often. I've
had this show has been on air for

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eight and a half years. I've
had on a lot of people talking about

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leadership, et cetera. And that
is a very nice fresh concept. Well

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to me, I like, is
its visual because I imagine like a clumsy

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string and so we're in the meeting
about a topic and there's four people,

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and my mindset is basically, what
what are we dealing with here? Like?

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Is this a clumsy string with a
lot of kinks? Is straight?

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You know, very tightly you know, you know, laid out string?

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That actually, well, that says
how much what we have to accomplish in

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the thirty minutes we have together,
For example, in a meeting where it's

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like what are these kings? You
know, how are we how do we

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fix them? You know, because
maybe the thought process is a little bit

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off. One of the assumptions isn't
really a strong assumption, So we need

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to REDIRECTI to pivot the thinking.
But in order to get the thinking of

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the group on the table, it's
not easy, right, Actually, you

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burn a lot of calories in your
brain. You need to have plenty of

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00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:33.640
protein that morning, maybe a couple
of hard boiled eggs, because you know,

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00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:37.759
to get an understanding of where what
the team is actually thinking is really

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00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.960
critical when you only have thirty minutes
with them, you're the leader, and

404
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.720
you're going to move on to five
other things because that is your shot to

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00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:49.720
really get everyone in this mind mild
where they're thinking clearly enough about it,

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00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:53.960
and it's so critical. The upside
is if you do it well, they

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00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.160
go off, they do ten other
meetings about the thing that you're not involved

408
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.960
with, and they're cascading all the
right understanding and information, activating the organization

409
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.559
in a great way. And then, you know, if you do that

410
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:12.119
repeatedly with this team three months from
now, the initiative is like has a

411
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:17.359
lot of momentum and you look great
and all you did was, you know,

412
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:21.039
really engage in the right way,
you know, in a few interactions.

413
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:25.160
So there's a lot of upside as
a leader in thinking about clarity of

414
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:30.640
thoughts as part of what you need
to contribute in your work leading teams.

415
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.039
Okay, and then we get to
this next part that I thought was really

416
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.599
really critically important. I see this
all the time, and we're going I

417
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.559
do own to coming to organizations and
you talk a lot about how you know,

418
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:48.079
cold starts happen where you see the
team being passive about fact finding and

419
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:52.680
june to dig. They're waiting for
someone to tell them to do something.

420
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:59.240
And you you talked about this at
one of your particular places that you're landing.

421
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:02.720
But what interesting is you know the
price. You say, the prior

422
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:07.039
regimes didn't have this the expectation and
people were not accustomed to this idea of

423
00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:11.160
fact finding and continuing to dig.
But then things you said, things began

424
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.799
to change once the team began to
see that these stand up meetings that you

425
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.440
were doing, we're not a call
to the principal's office, but instead of

426
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.759
way to solve the puzzle together.
I think if we could get more organizations

427
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:30.480
to do just that right there at
we could really change the output of organizations,

428
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.359
the the connection, the experience of
what they're doing. If you can

429
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.920
get people to be able to feel
safe to be able to do that,

430
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:44.279
you've already I think so much elevated
your game. I know there's writing your

431
00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:48.720
wheelhouse around psychological safety. Yes,
it's really hard for leaders, you know,

432
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:53.640
because leaders know that you know,
results matter a lot, So then

433
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:59.480
the emotional component of leadership is you
know, fee here are we not going

434
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.200
to get there? And then how
do I make myself clear that you know,

435
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:06.920
I'm being demanding and we need to
get there right? But now you're

436
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:09.599
you're you're going to get people to
shut down some parts of their brain.

437
00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:13.720
I mean, I'm not a brain
expert, but I know that you know

438
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.160
there's parts where the thinking brain versus
the kind of just the doing brain,

439
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.960
right, and you want to activate
it enough of the thinking brain and you're

440
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:29.160
the annual common sort of system too
thinking if you will, And so you

441
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:30.920
have to be, you know,
pretty careful and you have to keep a

442
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:36.319
neutral It's like, okay. And
that's why in the book I talk about,

443
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:40.359
you know, the right part of
an initiative or phase of initiative where

444
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:45.359
you want to really get the questions
and the ambiguity out on the table.

445
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.920
And it's okay to do that because
that's the whole purpose of that step in

446
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.599
the process. If that makes sense, Like there's no answers expected. Not

447
00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:00.240
only are there no answers expected,
I don't even expect you to have a

448
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:05.720
recommendation or being able to be able
to draw conclusions. I just expect you

449
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:09.000
to be able to tell me all
the main things that we need to get

450
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:15.720
our head around. And that's step
one of making you unknowns actionable is knowing

451
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:21.759
what they are and feeling good about
that list that the team can do detective

452
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:27.680
work on. So if we create
psychological we can create psychological safety by looking

453
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:34.000
at workflow where there is a step
in the process where the ambiguity is what

454
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:39.759
we're actually trying to trying to,
you know, gather. I really appreciate

455
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:45.160
that, and so making the exploration
process not just safe but fun and dynamic.

456
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.440
And you know, the better the
questions, the better we are.

457
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:51.880
So I just really want to celebrate
that and call that out. And on

458
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:53.440
that note, let's let our listeners
and viewers think about that while we take

459
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:57.720
our next break. I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortez. We've been on

460
00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:00.160
the air with Atifa Rafik, the
author of this vision Sprint, the new

461
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:05.319
way to innovate into the unknown and
move from strategy to action. We'll continue

462
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:23.119
to a conversation after the rake.
Stay with us. Doctor Elise Cortez is

463
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:29.079
a management consultant specializing in meaning and
purpose. An inspirational speaker and author,

464
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:34.760
she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose. Among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership

465
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:38.800
and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.

466
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:43.280
To learn more or to invite a
lease to speak to your organization,

467
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:46.599
please visit her at Elise Cortez dot
com. Let's talk about how to get

468
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:57.920
your employees working on purpose. This
is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez.

469
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:00.920
To reach our program today or to
open a conversation with Elise, send

470
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:07.239
an email to a lease a l
I se at Elise Cortez dot com.

471
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:15.159
Now back to working on Purpose.
Thanks for staying with us and welcome back

472
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:19.119
to working on Purpose. I'm your
host, doctor Elise Cortez. As I

473
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.280
mentioned in the last break, my
latest book, The Great Vitalization is out

474
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:27.000
and this is really something for organization
to be able to value what they're doing

475
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:30.039
around their culture and their leadership.
So to augment that, I have on

476
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:34.079
my website for you an organizational assessment
for you to learn the extent to which

477
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.440
your company's leadership and culture actually meet
the standards of today's workforce. You can

478
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:40.679
go to Elise Cortez dot com and
then go to how We Help tab and

479
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:45.320
find it there. If you're just
now join us. My guest is Atifrafik,

480
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:49.239
the founder and CEO of Ritual,
a new software app, and he's

481
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:52.760
an adviser to start ups like SpaceX
and Headspace, and the author of Decision

482
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:57.320
Sprint, the new way to innovate
into the unknown and move from strategy to

483
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.480
action. So for this next bit
here I couldn't resist. I have to

484
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:04.679
have you as someone who has such
a beautiful, innovative, creative mind.

485
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.440
I really loved when you wrote in
the book you say for a company to

486
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:14.599
endure, it needs to deliver it
wow and OMG. Not so what So

487
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:19.360
we need a way to overcome or
outsmart this potential pitfall and organizations and I

488
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.639
think this is really important to talk
about. So I wonder how many organizations

489
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:29.360
are going for wow or oh my
God. Well I can tell you is

490
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:34.079
that people are very busy and pretty
much every organization, but it doesn't necessarily

491
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:37.079
mean that the output of that is
going to be OMG or wow. And

492
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:45.519
OMG and wow are actually really really
hard, and sometimes you know there is

493
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:50.880
some OMG potential at the beginning,
when the idea is compelling and kind of

494
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:53.760
people as the light bulbs go off
right, and I think a lot of

495
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:59.840
people experience that, but as getting
some staining power in that where which is

496
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:05.559
part of why offer this method of
having a workflow where you don't water things

497
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:10.000
down and at the same time you're
pretty purposeful and you're not also blind to

498
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:15.400
you know, real question marks.
You know. So the idea of the

499
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:20.000
main idea is that you service the
right questions. You're neutral about it.

500
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:24.679
A lot of questions does not mean
you should be shy or run from the

501
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:31.199
idea making those questions actionable so that
you suspend judgment, can come to conclusions

502
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:36.000
when you're staying on a high quality
fact based ors, you know, thinking

503
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.440
through all the right things, you
know enough of the right things, then

504
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:45.800
you're in a position. That's how
you preserve the OMG because basically, people

505
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.960
are very creative in companies. They
are problem solvers, and if you give

506
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:52.719
them the time and space to identify
the right things get to the bottom of

507
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.159
them, they may very well find
out how to make how to make things

508
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:01.360
work in reality. That is real
OG potential because then everyone starts being confident

509
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:05.880
it's not just a bright idea,
but then we can actually pull it off.

510
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.320
And that's how you build a machine
around MG. Now the good news

511
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:13.480
is, I know it sounds hard, but you run water through the pipes

512
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:16.000
once or twice, people start believing
there's a method to the man. This

513
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:22.440
is not just you know, one
blip where there was a great creative burst

514
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:24.880
in the company. No, it's
actually a repeatable thing. We can make

515
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:32.840
this systematic and making a systematic way
of solving meaningful problems, of innovating ideas,

516
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:37.360
you know, that is what we'll
make an enduring company. So I'm

517
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:44.119
passionate about helping, you know,
companies get there through through a system,

518
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:46.760
which I really really applaud, really
appreciate that. I am a systems thinker

519
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.159
as well. And I you know, being able to adopt your system and

520
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:55.119
put it into issues to say any
category right, it works anywhere is really

521
00:38:55.159 --> 00:39:00.440
incredibly exciting. So you know,
one thing we didn't talk about at you

522
00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:02.800
said you meet something about two the
two year ago mark. Here, what

523
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:07.920
happened two years ago that would situate
you on this different track. Well,

524
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:09.800
I stepped off the corporate treadmill,
so to speak. You know, I

525
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:15.159
was in a pretty high level role
at a Fortune three hundred at the time

526
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:20.159
of Amagon Resorts in the president role, and I thought to myself, you

527
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:23.760
know, what is the thing,
what is my highest purpose? And my

528
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:28.119
conclusion was, as opposed to help
in one company at the time, I

529
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:32.199
wanted to build a system, both
a system like in general as a set

530
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:38.000
of methods, but also through technology
and software where I could help any company,

531
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:42.679
in fact, any team in any
company. And therefore I made a

532
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:46.559
break and I'm on my latest metamorphosis
as of two years ago, which is

533
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:52.800
essentially an entrepreneurial track of getting my
new company, Ritual off the ground.

534
00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:59.280
It's a software app and then some
of the work that's related around the book,

535
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:04.360
decisions and in other ways on which
I can bring and teach, you

536
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:08.320
know, the idea of you know, the system or management operating system for

537
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:13.239
companies that I think is fit for
purpose as we look at the next narrow

538
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:17.360
business. So that's the that's the
pivot that I made. I really applaud

539
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:21.559
that I've stepped in that track.
Not quite like you are, but I've

540
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:23.639
stepped on the track. I know
what that feels like. Now we have

541
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:28.760
to talk about what's Ritual. Let's
the app. So Ritual is an app

542
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:34.039
that is designed for teams, so
that enables teams to go from you know,

543
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:39.280
a raw idea or kind of a
high level objective, through the process

544
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:45.480
of coming up with a building,
an exploration, running an exploration, using

545
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:51.079
explorations to come up with recommendations,
and even preparing the content that they might

546
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:57.000
use for meetings, decisions meetings for
examples, by producing content like FAQs or

547
00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:04.719
a strategic narrative. But it basically
breaks everything down into a workflow software workflows,

548
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:08.280
and it's designed for a team,
so a team can go into a

549
00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:13.320
meeting, let's say, with sponsors, and they can sort of knock their

550
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.000
socks off and say, wow,
like your work is you know, thoughtful,

551
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:20.239
You've thought of all the right questions. We understand how you got to

552
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:25.840
your recommendations. So really streamlining the
process of getting to buy in and yes

553
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:30.519
for you know, for your bright
ideas. That's what the software app is

554
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:36.440
designed for. Brilliant. Okay,
makes complete sense. Okay, now we

555
00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:38.679
would be remissed you started to hind
about this before. And I do want

556
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:40.760
to ask you if you would treat
it because I know your you know,

557
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.760
your book is related to the future
of knowledge work and so it would be

558
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:50.719
interesting if you could make the connection
between your ideas and knowledge work. Well,

559
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.079
I think you know, knowledge work
is a spectrum and basically what you've

560
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:59.880
seen with software and a lot of
the conversation around AI is more I would

561
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:04.199
say, on the on the execution
side of knowledge work, right, it's

562
00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:10.199
like repeatable things we can document and
so forth, and so we will teach

563
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:15.559
the AI and then a sort of
like takes over, so to speak.

564
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:21.079
You know, but I'm working on
the end of knowledge work where you know,

565
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:23.880
humans and machines need to work together, and I see that happening forever.

566
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:29.519
I don't speed too. Yeah,
I don't see I taking over the

567
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:34.320
work of innovation or you know,
the most meaningful problem solving in a company.

568
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:42.000
But I do see AI being helping
increase the speed of that and making

569
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.559
it go a lot better as well. So I see the velocity of problem

570
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:51.599
solving an innovation going much faster and
better when humans and AI kind of come

571
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:57.800
together on the upstream part of things, which is things like coming up with

572
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:01.679
the right questions and so for example, if you look at JENII specifically,

573
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:06.400
if we were a team and we
had a problem statement, you know that

574
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:08.800
we're trying to get our head around
and we came up with, you know,

575
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:14.599
five or seven important questions that we
need to look into. AI can

576
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:20.960
suggest similar questions or questions that might
be blind spots from our carent list and

577
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:24.280
help us round round that out.
That's that's how humans and AI can work

578
00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:28.760
together. Or let's say you have
a question list you were in to take

579
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:31.639
a crack and answering them, and
I can point out things in your answers

580
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:36.000
like, hey, this is a
good point, but you need evidence for

581
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:39.039
it, you know, so go
get some data for example, or hey,

582
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:44.519
you know, you know your reasoning
on this is a little bit weaker.

583
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:46.920
You need to elaborate more. You
know that jen Ai can be good

584
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:53.320
at those type of things to basically
complement the work that we do at a

585
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:58.199
team level, and the result of
that is speeding up the quality and the

586
00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:02.360
speed of innovation. You know,
I'm already finding that is in my own

587
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.199
work as well. Antif playing with
that to be able to kind of test

588
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.519
out and tease that how can I
improve what I put forth here and getting

589
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:13.199
some of that feedback from jen Ai
said that's just absolutely beautiful. So you've

590
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:16.440
just affirmed what I'm doing, So
thank you for that. So We have

591
00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:21.239
to talk a little bit more about
the management piece here, because that's definitely

592
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:23.360
my jam and we're getting close to
time here. But you do say in

593
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.800
your book, you say, Peter
Drucker, who have of course, is

594
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:30.239
considered a father of modern management theory, but roll over in his grave,

595
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.440
you say, You say that,
why are the ideas in your book consider

596
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.039
consequential to the field of management?
And how are the work of so in

597
00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:43.480
other words, how are is your
work consequential to what he's put forth?

598
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:45.639
And why would he roll over in
his grave? Well? First, I

599
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:50.440
used to read Peter Drucker in college, so that's like I remember him too,

600
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:53.920
Yeah, yeah, and so were
in so many books and it's pretty

601
00:44:53.920 --> 00:45:00.760
amazing. But the rain Wiz Peter
Drucker was writing this entirely different because that

602
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:07.159
was an environment where things were stable
and predictable, Yeah, and predictable.

603
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:12.719
And because of that you could have
situations and companies where a few people kind

604
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:16.840
of wrestle with ambiguity, think things
through, and then the rest of the

605
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:22.079
company just execute. So you have
a few people kind of figuring this out

606
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:27.079
and the rest making sure that they
keep their promises and are clear on their

607
00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:32.719
objectives and accountable for their results,
and that defined basically business for a long

608
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:37.679
time, like fifty years, right, But that's you know, then we

609
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:43.599
have all now it's actually the inverse
of that is it's not a few people.

610
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:49.000
It's pretty much ninety five percent of
people need to contribute towards figuring things

611
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:53.159
out and just a few people are
execution only. You know, follow this

612
00:45:53.480 --> 00:46:00.840
sp operating procedure well documented thing.
That's we all know that AA is nibbling

613
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:07.039
up on that. So the whole
paradigm is upside down. And so if

614
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:12.880
you design knowledge work for those conditions, you get something very different, where

615
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:21.480
basically having people understand how to embrace
ambiguity, not be frightened by it,

616
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:27.039
kind of make it actionable, and
then put that into how to connect it

617
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:32.039
into decision making at some point and
then the right way it becomes really essential

618
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:37.960
to have across the company, cascade
and scale across the company. So you

619
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:43.800
know, it really is down to
the fact that the volatility, the velocity,

620
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:47.000
the amount of ambiguity on pretty much
everything the company is working on,

621
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:53.239
those are the conditions that define the
context of businesses today. So I think,

622
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:58.599
you know, Peter Drucker would come
up with a different system, but

623
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.599
he's not around the rest of us
have to figure out what that looks like.

624
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:05.239
Well, you just took the baton, my friends, so you're you're

625
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:09.000
you're doing great. Keep on running
down the track. So we've done it.

626
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.679
We've come to the end. The
show already happened so fast. So

627
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.119
you know, this program is listened
to by people around the world. And

628
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:17.159
what we really are up to here
is we're trying to create workplaces where people

629
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:21.360
actually want to come to work.
They do their best because they want to.

630
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:23.599
They're led by inspirational leaders only do
business at betters the world. What

631
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:29.440
would you like to leave them with? I would like to leave people with

632
00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:34.559
the fact that, you know,
work is a human experience and bringing out

633
00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:39.599
the best and people is the same
thing as putting the company in the best

634
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:45.519
position to grow and and you're they
are literally the same thing. So if

635
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:49.320
you want to look at the health
of a company, and we have to

636
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:55.719
look at whether people feel that the
workplace is sustainable for them right and if

637
00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:59.519
they're able to bring out their best
work. You know, to me,

638
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:04.159
if you can put your finger on
those two things, you're getting to you

639
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:07.639
know, then you're going to put
your finger. It's a great indicator whether

640
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:15.079
that company is going to continue to
put up the results on the growth ATIF.

641
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:16.960
Thank you so much for being on
working a purpose. It's always delightful.

642
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:21.039
I get to meet people like you
I wouldn't otherwise meet because of this

643
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:23.280
program. I'm very happy to cross
paths. You are delightful and your work

644
00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:27.880
is very exciting. Well, I
really appreciate your support, you know,

645
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:32.119
and your help helping me spread these
ideas as a real pleasure to join you

646
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:36.119
at elite. Thank you. Great
to know you. Listeners, viewers.

647
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:38.639
If you'll want to learn more about
Antifa Fique, his book Decision Sprint or

648
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:43.559
his work, the best place to
start with would just be Decision sprint dot

649
00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:45.599
com. Last week, if you
missed the live show, you always catch

650
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:50.079
to be a recorded podcast. We
were on air with doctor Robert Lynell talking

651
00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:52.880
about his new book A Place for
Tea Giving Voice to the Tortoise in our

652
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:57.400
hair Brained World, which, among
many other things, discusses the promise of

653
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:01.800
developing the capacity for divergent thinking to
address today's business challenges and the criticality of

654
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:07.559
embracing slower speed, empathy and ambiguity
to do so. Next week we'll be

655
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:10.920
on air with Grant Kaguar and Greguart
talking about the work he does, unleashing

656
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:15.719
entrepreneurial spirit for good and anchored in
stakeholder capitalism principles. See you there.

657
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:20.440
Remember work as an essential part of
our lives, ultimately the way we spend

658
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:22.079
our lives, and it can be
one of the best adventures and means of

659
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:27.119
realizing our potential in making the impact
we crave. So let's work on Purpose.

660
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:32.840
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working

661
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:37.039
on Purpose featuring your host, doctor
Elise Cortez, each week on W four

662
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:43.800
CY. Together we'll create a world
where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and

663
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:47.159
passion performance, and employees are fulfilled
in work that provides the meaning and purpose

664
00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:51.480
they crave. See you there,
Let's work on Purpose.