Oct. 7, 2025

Unleashing Meaning: The Secret Fuel of Fulfilled, High-Performing Teams

Unleashing Meaning: The Secret Fuel of Fulfilled, High-Performing Teams
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In a time of unprecedented change at work—remote teams, burnout, shifting values—one timeless force continues to drive engagement and performance: meaning. In this episode, we explore how leaders can activate meaning as the powerful engine behind both fulfillment and results. Discover three key aspects of meaning: building community, spotlighting contributions, and inspiring continuous challenge and growth to take your team to new heights in today’s times. Guest: Wes Adams

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,

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or products mentioned on air or on our web. No

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Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments

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should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for

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choosing W FOURCY Radio.

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway?

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Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People

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ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their

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talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave

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being part of an organization that inspires them and helps

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them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help

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usher in this world we all want Working on Purpose. Now,

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here's your host, doctor Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has

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been brought to you with passionate and pride since February

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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great

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to have you. I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes. If

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we've not met before and you don't know me, I'm

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a workforce advisor, organizational psychologist, management consultant, logo therapists, speaker,

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and author. My team and I at Gusta Now help

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companies to unlive it and fortify their operations by building

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a dynamic, high performance culture, inspirational leadership, and nurturing managers

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activated by meaning and purpose. Many organizations are not aware

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of how critical it is to invest in developing their

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leaders and managers not just for their own effectiveness, but

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also to avoid burnout and keep them fulfilled, and also

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that they can measure and monitor the purpose experience in

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their organizations to keep it working as an operational imperative.

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So much you can do with meaning and purpose. Did

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you know that inspired employees in purpose led organizations outperform

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their satisfied peers by a factor of two point twenty

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five to one. In other words, inspiration is good for

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the bottom line. You can learn more about us and

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how we can work together at gusto dashnow dot com

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or my personal site at Leisquortes dot com. Getting into

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today's program, we had with us Wes Adams, the founder

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and CEO of SV Consulting Group. He helps leading companies

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build organizational resilience, develop leadership excellence, and draw out peak

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performance through a meaning Work lens. He's a co author

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of the book Meaningful Work, How to Ignite Passion and

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Performance in Every Employee, which we'll be talking about today. Wes,

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welcome to Working on Purpose.

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Thanks so much, Elise. Great to be here.

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Thank you, You're so welcome.

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Look at this gorgeous thing that you put into the world.

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Isn't that gorgeous?

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It's exciting to see it.

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Yeah, a lot of work went into it. My co

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author Tamora and I spent a number of years doing

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the research for it, and it's pretty crazy to see

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it out in the world.

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I understand.

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I really appreciate that, and I know since you're a

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gent I can be confident in telling you what you

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did there is harder than bringing a baby into the both,

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so just so you know, harder than childbirth.

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I appreciate that and that you can say it and

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I can't know.

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I know where it is together with Well, let's talk

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about how this book came together, how you and Tomorrow

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Miles brought this thing together, how you met, Why is

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the book and its message important to you?

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Absolutely?

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So, Tomorrow and I actually met in grad school. We

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both have a master's of Applied Positive Psychology from University

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of Pennsylvania. We studied with Martin Martin Seligman, who is

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known as the father of positive psychology. And you know,

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we had come there for kind of slightly different reasons,

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but we had the same goal. I had been working

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for a number of years in the social enterprise space,

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and when I first started working in the space, I

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think I somewhat naively thought that, oh, because you know,

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these are mission driven or purpose driven organizations, they're naturally

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going to be amazing places to work because everybody's got

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the same.

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Goal in mind, and we're all going to hold hands

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and you know, march forward together.

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And you know, there are certainly some great organizations that

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I had experiences with, but what I learned was that

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not all of them were great places to work. And

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this idea of having a mission or having a purpose

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wasn't enough to create an amazing place to work. And

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so I got really interested in organizational psychology and started

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reading Adam Grant and you know, all all of the

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other stuff, and that eventually led me to PEN because

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I was really interested in understanding, like, could you deconstruct

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how to create an amazing workplace? What were the leadership

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practices and organizational structures that would help people thrive, help

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people do their best work?

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And so that's what that's what kicked all of this off.

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Well, as I said before we got on air, we

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are two piece or three piece in a pod, right,

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the three of us are really working from we're singing

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from the same sheet of music here and very much

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echo and really applaud what you've written and created together.

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And I really align with how you talk about meaning.

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Was what really powers high performance and well being at work?

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It's the sun, soil and space that makes our gardens grow.

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I think that's a powerful way to think about meaning.

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Yeah, it's what we found.

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You know, there's several decades of research on meaning at

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work and the impact that it has, and it's really

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the upstream factor that drives all of the outcomes that

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we're looking for individually. It drives job satisfaction, engagement, well

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being and at the team and organizational level things like innovation, productivity.

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There's even great new research from Oxford showing it drives

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profitability and stock price. So it's really something it's not

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a nice to have, you know. The idea of meaning

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can sound a little soft sometimes, but it's actually a

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business imperative, especially as we're moving into a world where

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our core human and skills are going to be the

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most valuable. As you know, things like AI are taking

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over some of the more repetitive things. So we see

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it as really something you've got to be investing in.

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And so that's why we wrote the book because we're

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particularly interested in understanding how leaders help people find meeting.

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We're going to get.

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Into the more of the details listeners and viewers as

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to what we mean by meaning as we go along here,

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But I do want to say just a bit more

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about just the business case for this. You've said lots

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of the areas that when we really work on making

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work more meaningful impact, but just a couple of things

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that stood out for me from your book is just

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crazy things like employees who report higher levels of meaning

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at work are sixty four percent more fulfilled, four and

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a half times more engaged, sixty nine percent less likely

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to quit. I mean, these are significant factors if we

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can numbers here, and so I think it's really important

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that we position for our listeners and viewers just the

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critical out because I think a lot of people think

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that meaning and the work that I also do in

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purpose can be a little bit Mushy's And you also

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talk about being able to measure the impact of meaning

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as well. So I just want to if you have

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any other stats that you want to throw out here

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that really help bring it home for our listeners and

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viewers sys to why they should pay attention to this

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and embrace it as an imperative.

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That's a great question.

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I should probably have more statistics in my head, but

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you know, I will say, like you, I'm you know,

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my primary job is I'm a consultant. I do leadership

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development and organizational design work with a range of companies,

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and so I'm actively teaching these practices and helping companies

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implement these structures, and I can tell you that it

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has a huge impact on the business, on the company's

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ability to grow, to perform, to deliver the bottom line.

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So you know, it continues to play out again and again,

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how much these practices benefit organizations.

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Well, let me throw out another one that I have

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seen several times over and over again that I'll bet

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will be very surprising and interesting to our listeners and viewers.

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And that is that you say.

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In a recent study, nine out of ten workers stated

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that meaning at work is so important that they would

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that they would take a more meaningful job elsewhere, even

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if it paid less. These workers are willing to give

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up almost one quarter of their lifetime earnings for work

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that is more meaningful. That is, if that is not

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sobering to listeners and viewers, it doesn't have your attention,

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you know. In other words, whatever you invest in helping

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making work more meaningful, you have an immediate payoff people

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sticking around. So I just wanted to be able to

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service a few more of those really meeting numbers for

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our listeners viewers that are given more to the quantitative

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aspects of this stuff. I appreciate that absolutely. So you

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mentioned the importance of what leaders do. I want to

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go there next, Wes, you talk about nearly fifty percent

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of an employee's experience of meaning at work is tied

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to what leaders do or fail to do. You say

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a bit more about.

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That yeah, I think that's a really important finding. So

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one of the things that Tomorrow and I found when

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we started doing research on this topic was there's a

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lot available around how do I find a more meaningful

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job or what can I do to craft my job

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and find more meaningful work, and there was very little

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available for leaders who wanted to help people find meaning

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in their jobs. And I think also this idea that

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you know, meaning is reserved for people who work in

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nonprofits or in healthcare or that sort of thing, and so,

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you know, we really wanted to dig into that. And

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so what we found, you know, over several years of

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doing this research and you know, doing quantitative studies to

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understand the impact of these behaviors on people's sense of

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meaning and other outcomes like job satisfaction, retention, those sorts

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of things, was that these behaviors that we identified account

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for about how off of how meaningful people find their jobs.

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And that's enormous, you know, that is a that is

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an incredible responsibility that leaders have and also a huge opportunity,

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what an incredible leverage point, you know, if we know

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that meaning is the upstream factor that drives all of

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these things that we want leaders have a huge potential

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impact on that if they're employing these practices and you know,

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thinking about how they're actively investing in these things. And

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I think the other thing that we found was that

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you know, people in every job, every day can experience meaning,

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especially when leaders are employing these practices. You know, your

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job doesn't have to be your life's calling for your

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worth to for your work to feel worthwhile. You know,

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these moments of meaning can happen in every job. And

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you know, we talk to people who are you know, hairstylists, janitors,

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you know, people working in data centers who found their

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jobs incredibly meaningful. And so I think that bodes well

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for all of us. You know that we can get

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more than just a paycheck out of our jobs, whatever

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that is.

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For my PAGDA study team and development and I research

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for my dissertation how meaning is experienced by people actually

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it managers back then, how to related to their sense

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of self? And then I did a big postoc research

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back in twenty fourteen, and I found these fifteen modes

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of engagement when I looked at the levels in kind,

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the depth and quality of the meaning and its relationship

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to their person and so yes, the same thing. I

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also researched many different kinds of individuals, and the richness

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that's available around how people experience and express what's meaningful

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is just dazzling, and it's there. There's an opportunity to

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your point, and that's why I also, as a fellow consultant,

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really love getting to support leaders because this is not

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super hard, but it maybe isn't super obvious to be

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able to help ste does this meaning journey?

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Yeah, I well, first of all, I'm really interested in

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that research, so I'd.

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Love for you to send it to me after and

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I think I might swap what you just said.

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I think actually a lot of these practices are a

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little bit more obvious than you might think.

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But they're not easy. They're not easy to remember to

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do every day.

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They're not easy to implement, especially when we're too busy,

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when we're not in the same room, you know, when

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we're faced with all of this change. You know, I

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think one of the things that surprised us when we

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were doing this research was that, you know, I think

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I think we were kind of thinking, Oh, we're going

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to come up with these groundbreaking behaviors and structures that

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no one's ever found before and unlock the secret to

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creating meaning at work. And actually, you know a lot

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of them are very time tested behaviors leadership practices. I

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don't know that they've all necessarily been collected in one

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place before, but.

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You know, none of them were sort of.

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As groundbreaking as we had expected, I think, with the

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exception of the importance of recruiting and onboarding and how

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you handle that process and the impact that it has

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throughout the life of your relationship with an employee. But

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otherwise I think they're you know, a lot of them

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are time tested, and they're very hard to do well,

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to do consistently and intentionally.

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So I want to situate kind of going back to

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what we were talking about what leaders can do to

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be able to make work more meaningful. And one of

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the things I think makes your work so powerful and compelling, Wes,

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is that you've really isolated into really three main buckets,

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three c's, if you will. And so you go on

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to say that leaders who build community, help people understand

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their contributions matter and challenge them, and opportunities to learn

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and grow foster meaning for everyone on their team. So

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it's that whole thing of community, contribution, challenge that I

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think really makes your work so compelling and I think

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helps maybe everyone be able to better access what we

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mean by this squishy thing called how do we make

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work more meaningful?

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Yeah, let's dive into those.

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So the three seas of meaning, the three sources of meaning, community, contribution,

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and challenge. As you mentioned, So, community is this sense

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that you belong, that you can show up authentically, bring

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your full self and your full ideas to the table.

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Contribution is understanding how you are positively impacting other people,

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whether that's clients or coworkers, or how your work is

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laddering up to a larger organizational goal. And finally challenges

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that individual opportunity to learn and grow. How are you

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becoming the best version of yourself and seeking their full potential.

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What we found was that, you know, there's a multiplier

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effect that happens here, so you know, they kind of

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play off of each other. Sometimes some of these practices,

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you know, fit in a couple of those buckets, and

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also if one of them is missing, it can cancel

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out the other two. So going back to this idea

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of you know, some of the social enterprises or nonprofits

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that you know I've been a part of that haven't

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been such great places to work? Well it might it

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might have been high in contribution, but one of those

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other seas could have been missing.

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Beautiful way to summarize what you're at the heart of

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what you've created here together and let's rub our first

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break here. We have been on air with Wes Adams

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talking about his new book that he's put out into

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the word Heal and he's the author of Meaningful Work.

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He's the founder and CEO of c ME Consulting Group.

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We have been talking so far about why, what's the

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business case for being able to make work more meaningful

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and getting into the heart of their their core research

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around the three SE's. After the break, we're going to

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situate the importance of aligning values to behavior is one

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of these aspects to drive an organization forward. We'll be

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right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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a Lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

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at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

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with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

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to open a conversation with a Lease, send an email

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to a lease a Lisee at a lascortes dot com.

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Now back to working on Purpose.

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Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor release Cortes, as I too,

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am dedicated to help and create a world where organizations

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thrive because they're people thrive and they're led by inspirational

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leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness. And

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we do business at Betters to the Worlds. I keep

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researching and writing my own books. So one of my

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latest came out. It's called The Great Revitalization, How activating

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a Median Purpose can radically enliven your business. And it's

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similar to Wes and Tomorrow's book and that it really

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is designed to help readers understand the lay of today's

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discerning workforce. What do they want to need to stay

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engaged and give their best? And then I offer you

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twenty two best practices to help equip you in your

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culture to provide that for them. You can find my

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books on Amazon or my personal at least quretes dot com.

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So coming back into the conversation here, so we can

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orient our view our listeners and viewers here, West, I

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just want to remind and maybe do us a quick

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summary here that you define meaningful work as work that

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provides community, helps us contribute to something that matters, and

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challenging us, challenges us to learn and grow. And so

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what you said just before the break, I think is

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that we really need all three of those components for

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it to registers meaningful.

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Yes, no, kind of absolutely, yeah, all three are important. Cool. Cool.

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So I do want to talk about this idea of alignment.

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It's something that we also measure when it comes to

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purpose and values as well. And I think that the

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way you talk about aligning values to behavior and certainly

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how leaders can can model that is so so critical.

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Absolutely, so this was an interesting finding from our research,

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and that's this idea that you know, you have to

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walk your talk right, you know, you have to be

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a good role model for organizational value. And it was

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really this idea of alignment between behavior and spoken values

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was really a prerequisite for meaningful work, So it was

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sort of it precedes the three c's. It was a

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necessary but not sufficient part of the equation here. It

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didn't really add much when people were aligned, but it

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was the quickest way to destroy meaning was to not

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be aligned. And so you know, very often we throw

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our values up on the wall transparency, you know, trust,

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teamwork and things like that, and people look to leaders

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to their behavior to understand whether those things really matter right,

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what are the real values, what's the real culture of

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the organization, And if we're saying one thing and doing another,

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it really breaks trust in a way that's hard to

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recover from.

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I actually had someone talk to me some years ago

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when she found out what we did here at our company,

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and she went on to share experience and where she

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had worked for it was a firefighting organization, and she said,

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you know, it was so demoralizing because she said the

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leaders actually acted in direct opposition to the values, and

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dragging myself to work every day felt like I was

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crucifying myself every day. So back to what I was

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saying on my own research, part of what the reason

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there are fifteen modes of engagement. Is that we look

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at both the positive and negative balance of meaning. In

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that case, that's a negative contribution to meaning, and it

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can be incredibly destructive to the souls of the organization

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that you're depending on to power your mission. So it

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just really wanted to bring that home just how devastating

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it can be when leaders are literally or anyone in

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the organization, especially the leaders are acting in opposition to

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those stated values.

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This is one of the biggest complaints I hear when

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I start a project with a client and do discovery

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work and start talking to people on the ground, this

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is one of the first things that comes up is, Oh,

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you know, leaders here say this, but actually this is

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how it really works, and it's very hard to navigate

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through that to get to the important work that needs

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to happen, you know, to move an organization forward.

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Yeah, indeed, well we have some. You have many great

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examples in the book. I love all of your examples

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and the people that you cite, and I definitely want

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to celebrate our dear Bob Chapman at Barry Way Miller.

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He is a dear colleague of mine, not colleague. I

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consider him. I say that I'm one of his followers, right.

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I believe in his leadership discipline. He's been on my

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podcast a couple of times, He's written testimonies for a.

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Couple of my books.

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I really believe in him his leadership philosophy. So let's

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talk about just what that looks like when we are

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a leader like Bob Chapman was going through back in

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the financial crisis, what in two thousand and eight, two

406
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thousand and nine, and was really faced with some difficult

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situations that They're a manufacturing company located I think in

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Saint Louis, and he went back and said, let's look

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at our values here, how do we get through this together?

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So can you paint a little bit of that picture.

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I'll add in some details that I remember from your

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book that I think are really compelling.

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Absolutely, you know, it was a very difficult time the

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financial crisis, I think, if I'm remembering correctly, their business

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took a huge dive, you know, in from one year

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to the next, and they were faced with a situation

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where they weren't going to be able to make it

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and unless they reduce costs in a pretty significant way.

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And so normally what organizations do in that situation is

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they lay off a chunk of the workforce and you know,

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save on those costs. And you know, Bob had been

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and the leadership team for several years before that, had

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really been invested in the these values of the organization

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talking about these values, living these values, and so you know,

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this was a in a crisis moment. I think that's

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when that does matter most, Right, are you do the

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work when it gets hard? You know, it's easy to

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be aligned with your values when things are going well.

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And so you know, I think he and the senior

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leadership team really took a step back and looked at

431
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I believe their value was you know, uh, you know

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this idea of working as a family. What would a

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family do? Yes, And they really thought about, well, what,

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you know, a lot of these folks were also going

435
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to be in hard times. You know, if they had

436
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lost their jobs. It was you know, tough financial situation

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for everyone. And so what they decided to do instead

438
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of laying people off was a series of furloughs. So

439
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people would get a couple of weeks furloughed and that

440
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would rotate throughout the year so that no one had

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to lose their job. Everyone would make a little bit less,

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but everyone would keep their job. Everyone be able to

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navigate through this situation, and some people in the organization

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00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.359
actually put their hand up for double furloughs so that

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people who really needed the money or you know, had

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00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:10.839
families that were struggling, could you know, keep their full

447
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paychecks and that sort of thing. And I believe he

448
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also halted four oh one K matches with the tend

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to repay them, you know, when he could, and they

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navigated that year of the financial crisis, and I think

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they came back stronger than ever and within a year

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or eighteen months, you know, people were back full time.

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They had paid back all of the four oh one

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K contributions that they had held back, and you know,

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it was really a testament to what happens when you

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live your values in the long term impact that that

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has on the organization.

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Yeah, let me add just a few more details to that,

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because I think this is really really powerful listeners and

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viewers think about the impact of what this would have

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on your organization if you had, if you really lived

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the values like this. So in addition, Bob took a

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major pay cut self. He he went from one eight

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hundred and seventy five thousand a year to ten thousand,

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five hundred dollars that year.

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Talk about walking the talk.

467
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Talk about walking the talk, and he did put the

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bonuses in four one K matches on hold, and specifically,

469
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I want to I want to make sure that y'all

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understand how this furlough works. And so he asked all

471
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.240
their associates to take an unpaid four week furlough to

472
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.400
distribute the impact equally. And to your point, Wes, some

473
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:26.839
of those people said, Hey, Jane needs more of an

474
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:28.880
income right now with her three kids or whatever than

475
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:32.400
I do. I'll take double furlow kind of thing. So

476
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:36.119
think about what that does. Together, and Bob and doctor

477
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:39.240
Roschasodi have co written a book called Everybody Matters and

478
00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:41.640
that is again walking the talk. And I just if

479
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.119
you think about what does this do? Boy, how many

480
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.160
people would you know? Almost I don't want I'm not

481
00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:49.640
going to say that what I was about to say,

482
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:51.880
because in these political times it could be really really charged,

483
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:55.640
but you know, really give them themselves over for this

484
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:59.000
company because they believe they were there in the hard time.

485
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:01.319
So I just really want to say, situay This is

486
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:05.920
really unusual behavior, but it's also incredibly distinguished. Bob speaks

487
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:09.160
all over the world, and people seek his counsel because

488
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.799
they see how successful they have been over the years.

489
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:14.400
They don't talk about headcounts in their company, they talk

490
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.599
about heart count. I mean, it's just it's really, really

491
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.000
a beautiful example of truly walking talk.

492
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:22.119
I love that.

493
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.160
Yeah, it's really incredible to see what happens when you

494
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:31.119
are willing to invest in this stuff and walk your talk,

495
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:33.759
especially in the long term. You know, I think we

496
00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:38.240
have a lot of short term pressures on organizations these days,

497
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:42.759
and you know, those those decisions. I mean just the

498
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.400
research on laying people off and the impact that that

499
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:46.799
has on an organization.

500
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:47.640
I was reading.

501
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:51.640
I'm forgetting who the researcher was, but you know, they

502
00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:54.440
can measure the negative impacts of that three years and

503
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:59.359
further beyond an organization. It hurts the organization's reputation, It

504
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:03.279
hurts that sense of teamwork and collaboration in ways that's

505
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:05.359
really difficult to recover from.

506
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:09.400
Indeed, and on that note, I did want to go

507
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:13.319
into how you offer some ways that leaders can cultivate connection.

508
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.400
I thought that your ideas about shared experiences were really

509
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.279
really interesting. The portfolio approach you talk about in the

510
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:24.559
book was really interesting, and I think it's really critical

511
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:26.960
that when we talk about shared experiences, a lot of

512
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.240
people immediately when you think about the lower hanging fruit,

513
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:32.599
they are like, oh, yeah, let's have a pizza party,

514
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:35.400
let's do you know, let's do a happy hour or whatever.

515
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:39.279
And you distinguish some more when you add in the

516
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:43.359
challenge piece of that, a shared challenge. How much more

517
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:46.400
meaningful that is than a nice mix of those activities

518
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.240
can really make a difference to cultivating that connection. If

519
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:53.000
you could see a bit more about these ways that

520
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:57.160
leaders and organizations can cultivate shared experiences and also that

521
00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:58.119
portfolio approach.

522
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.559
Yeah, so doing things together is a great way to

523
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:07.039
build authentic relationships with each other. And one of the

524
00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:11.119
things that we talk about in the book is as

525
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:17.119
leaders creating a portfolio of shared experiences along two axes,

526
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.039
that a difficulty axis.

527
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:21.759
And also a purpose access.

528
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.359
So you know, in one part of this matrix you

529
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:28.039
would have you know, kind of lower difficulty, lower purpose

530
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:31.240
activities and that could look like you know, something we

531
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.759
talk about in the book, which is the Swedish practice

532
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.200
of FIKA, which is basically just having a coffee break together,

533
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:42.720
synchronizing coffee breaks across the organization, which you know, just

534
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:45.279
means that people happen to be free at the same time.

535
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:47.920
They bump into each other, they chat, they have a

536
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.559
chance to you know, get to know each other a

537
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:53.480
little bit. And that's actually there's research on it been

538
00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:57.240
a very powerful way to build connection and even collaboration

539
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:01.720
across functions and that sort of thing. And then you

540
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:07.039
can get into higher difficulty, higher purpose experiences like we're

541
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.000
going to go do a volunteering today day together at

542
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.960
the local soup kitchen or whatever that is. That takes

543
00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:16.079
a lot more time. It's a little bit more difficult

544
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:20.039
to do that sort of thing. And what we want

545
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:23.400
is sort of a range of experiences across the spectrum,

546
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.680
so that we're varying, you know, opportunities for different types

547
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:31.359
of people, and we're creating all of these different entry

548
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:33.720
points for folks across that portfolio.

549
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:35.920
And one of the things.

550
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:38.519
Too that I appreciate about that, and you do talk

551
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:40.319
about in the book as well, and I've also written

552
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.720
about it and spoken about it, is, you know, if

553
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:46.000
you want people to come together and there's a lot

554
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:48.319
there's it makes more sense for people to come together

555
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.880
when they are learning together, they're trying to connect together,

556
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.480
and when you do ask them to come together, essentially,

557
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:56.119
you do need to need to be able to earn

558
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:59.240
that commute, to earn the effort, the resources it takes

559
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:01.599
for them to get there. And I think some of this,

560
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:05.079
this idea of a portfoli of experience, really helps situate

561
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:08.519
for leaders how you can make these things compelling and

562
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:11.640
really meaningful and meaning for people. So I just really

563
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:16.279
want to celebrate how you've situated those opportunities for organizations.

564
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.720
I appreciate that, and I think we could probably do

565
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:22.119
a whole episode on how the psychological contract of showing

566
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:26.119
up at work has changed, no doubt significantly, And I

567
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.200
think there's this new capability that's needed within organizations, which

568
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.759
is thinking about how to organize people when they come

569
00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:36.200
into the office. How are you thinking about that like

570
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:40.279
an event planner, an experiential marketer. You know, there's no

571
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:42.359
reason to come into the office to be on zoom

572
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:44.279
calls all day or teams calls all day.

573
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:45.480
I can do that from home.

574
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.559
How are you creating opportunities for us to connect for

575
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:54.759
us to collaborate, be creative, brainstorm, have inspirational connection with

576
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:56.960
each other. That's what we need to do when we're

577
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:57.480
in person.

578
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:02.480
Well, on that note, I also wanted to call out

579
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.559
and embrace the idea that you have in your book

580
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:08.519
about about embracing authenticity and doing it in a way

581
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:12.799
through personal storytelling and which allows people to also summon

582
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:15.359
their higher emotions. I'm a big fan of Barbara Fredrickson,

583
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:18.279
and I really love the idea of being able to

584
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:21.799
encourage people to share their personal stories what matters to them.

585
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.200
And what I love about this in aligns with what

586
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:26.359
I'm also doing too west on some of my newer

587
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.400
offerings is it allows them when they are able to

588
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.160
bring in their full selves and share what matter to

589
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.240
them that we are now building through their positive emotions

590
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:40.519
such as joy and gratitude and curiosity, which she expands

591
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:44.119
our thinking and prompts us to explore new possibilities and ideas,

592
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.519
and that is connective and sticky, and there's just so

593
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:50.400
much richness and what you can create from and innovate

594
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:53.119
from that sort of an experience point.

595
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:55.920
Absolutely, and I think you know a huge fan of

596
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:59.839
Barbara Frederickson. She was one of my professors, and J.

597
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:04.640
Dutton's work on high quality connections also just the even

598
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.960
very brief interactions with people that elicit those positive emotions

599
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:12.039
are hugely powerful and connecting us to each other.

600
00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:16.079
You and I can probably keep out all day, absolutely,

601
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:21.359
but let's grab our last break here. I'm your host,

602
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:24.039
doctor release Cortes. I'm on that area with Wes Adams.

603
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:27.039
He's the founder and CEO of SV Consulting Group. He

604
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:31.839
helps leading companies build organizational resilience, develop leadership excellence, and

605
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:35.279
draw and draw out peak performance through a meaningful work lens.

606
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.640
We've been talking a bit about more of the concepts

607
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:41.319
of how leaders can cultivate this sense of meeting and organizations.

608
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:43.559
After the break, we're going to continue the conversation and

609
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:46.440
talk about how we can start that whole process right

610
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.039
from the beginning when we hire people.

611
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:48.920
We'll be right back.

612
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:08.039
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

613
00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:11.920
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

614
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.799
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

615
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:19.839
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

616
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.119
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

617
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.160
Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at

618
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:29.400
elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

619
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:38.240
employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with

620
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:41.519
doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

621
00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:45.039
open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise A.

622
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:51.039
LISEE at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

623
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:57.759
Thanks for staying with us to welcome back to Working

624
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.559
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Relise Cortez. As you

625
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:02.720
know by now, the program is dedicated to empowering and

626
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:05.680
inspiring you along your journey to realize more of your potential.

627
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:08.039
You will learn more about how we can work together

628
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:10.320
and learn about the gusto Now Academy for leaders and

629
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:13.920
individuals on various journeys alike. Make your way to gustodesh

630
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:16.280
now dot com and then go to the training tab

631
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.639
and you'll find the academy there if you are just

632
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.840
joining us. My guest is Wes Adams. He's the co

633
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:24.159
author of Meaningful Work, How to Ignite Passion and Performance

634
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:27.960
in Every Employee. So you had mentioned this before when

635
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:30.239
we were speaking in the first segment here, but this

636
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:32.800
notion of how we can even start this whole meeting

637
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:36.880
journey before we even bring people into our organization by

638
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:39.880
hiring through values. And I think this is really really

639
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:42.559
powerful if you could speak a bit about the idea

640
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:46.159
of the values interview, their values journey and how it

641
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.719
shows up in their work. This is not something I've

642
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:50.199
heard too many people talk about.

643
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.199
This was really fascinating to us when we found it

644
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.760
in the research. And what we learned was that even

645
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:03.840
just talking about an organization's values in the recruiting process

646
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.320
in someone's interview had an impact on the meaning that

647
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:11.159
they felt later in their career, even years later, right,

648
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:15.679
there was a measurable impact there. And so this practice

649
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:18.400
first of all of talking about values, of being asked

650
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:23.360
about your own values and understanding what the organization believes

651
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.760
in and how they operate and what the culture is.

652
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:29.320
You know, our theory on that is first of all,

653
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.280
it signals that this is a place where you know,

654
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:34.000
we behave in line with our values.

655
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.039
And second of all, it allows people to self select

656
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:41.400
in you know, it's it helps build that alignment between

657
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:45.159
you know, my personal values and the organizational values of

658
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:46.039
the company.

659
00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:47.280
That I'm interviewing with.

660
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:50.559
And you know, there are a couple organizations that we

661
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:54.519
talk about, Zappos, I think being one of them, that's

662
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:58.719
pretty well known for their values interview, which is a

663
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:04.440
behavioral interview that's really around alignment with Zappo's values. And

664
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:10.920
so there's a whole separate interview that's just about values alignment,

665
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.000
or I guess I should say values add because one

666
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.400
of the important distinctions here is we don't want people

667
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.639
who think exactly like us. We want people who share

668
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:23.199
the same values but are still willing to challenge us

669
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:27.519
on how those live in the world. And so, you know,

670
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:31.199
they have an interview and they rate people on the

671
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.679
values according to you a very specific scale, and that

672
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:39.000
trumps all of the other interviews. So even if you

673
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.440
have a very high quality candidate, if you're desperate for

674
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:46.320
a new engineer and this person went to MIT and

675
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.199
they have all the qualifications, if they don't pass the

676
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:52.320
values interview, they don't make it in. And so they

677
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.000
really walk their talk in that way, which I think

678
00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:57.519
is powerful, and it means that people that make it

679
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:01.559
into the organization are really going to feel an increased

680
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:05.360
sense of belonging because they know everyone else is aligned

681
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:06.159
on those things.

682
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:07.480
Very powerful.

683
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:09.159
And one of the things that we do is when

684
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:12.800
we when we help when people understand their own individual

685
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.199
values and they can align them with and through that

686
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:19.199
of the organizational purpose. Now it's it's really powerful. It's

687
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:21.880
really that's what's what allows them to feel amplified by

688
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.679
being part of the organization. So the values piece is

689
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:27.119
really really important, and I don't see too many organizations

690
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:31.679
doing that work upfront. Like you're talking about, let's talk

691
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:34.840
a little bit about feedback. I have I work with

692
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.320
several different leaders right now. I'm amazed by several of

693
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.559
them who have said just recently to me as we

694
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:43.440
talk a little bit about appreciation, and I such an

695
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:46.239
who almost literally said the exact same phrase to me,

696
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:50.880
I think people should be if they're doing their job.

697
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:53.840
I don't think I need to say thank you or

698
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:56.599
show appreciation because that's what I expect of them.

699
00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:57.719
And I.

700
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:03.280
That they're The research is overwhelming to the contrary, right,

701
00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:05.480
And so you go on to say that, you know,

702
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.719
one study found that participants who were asked to give

703
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:11.480
positive feedbacks typically underestimated how much it would matter to

704
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:14.920
the person receiving it. And also how surprised the recipients

705
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:18.719
would be to hear it. Participants assume their gratitude would

706
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:22.320
be more obvious and less meaningful to the recipient that

707
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:23.119
it actually was.

708
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:27.360
Yeah, this is I have also heard people say that

709
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:30.960
many times. Why should I thank somebody for doing their job?

710
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:37.719
They're just meeting expectations. Uh, and yeah, it's it's pretty

711
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:43.960
mind blowing sometimes going into an organization and hearing that

712
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:49.320
people haven't been thanked ever, you know, or recognized ever

713
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:51.679
for the work that they're doing, or it's been months

714
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:54.639
or years since they've heard something like that from a manager,

715
00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:59.239
and you know, I think the there's there's recent research

716
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:02.079
from Gallup and work Human showing that one thank you

717
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:06.079
once a week cuts from a manager cuts disengagement and

718
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:09.800
burnout in half. That's one thank you once a week

719
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:11.840
from a manager, and less than forty percent of the

720
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:16.360
people in that study felt adequately recognized for their work. Right,

721
00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:19.119
So this is a huge This is one thing I'm

722
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:22.079
very passionate about. It's a huge leverage point and it's

723
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:26.360
one of the most underused leadership tools out there. You know,

724
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:29.679
just saying thank you or good job on a regular

725
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:34.239
basis incredibly powerful to let people know that their work matters,

726
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:38.119
to show them that they have a valuable contribution to

727
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:42.920
the organization, and even better if we can be specific

728
00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:48.079
about that. So we talk about feedback model, the best

729
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:52.000
model for positive feedback in the book, that's behavioral, explicit

730
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:55.159
strengths based and timely. And we want to call out

731
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:59.679
exactly what was the thing that you did that I'm appreciating,

732
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.760
What was the impact of that had? Can we be

733
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:06.360
explicit about that, what's the strength that I see in you?

734
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.599
And we always want to do that as soon as

735
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:12.880
possible after you know, that event happened, and so that

736
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:13.960
would be you know.

737
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:14.400
A lease.

738
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:19.239
I really appreciated that you followed up earlier today to

739
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:23.000
make sure that I felt prepared for the podcast. You know,

740
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.920
it really made me feel comfortable coming in and it

741
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:29.840
showed a lot of you know, consideration on your part,

742
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:32.559
and so thank you for doing that right And so

743
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:35.519
now you've known, you know, first of all that you

744
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.079
know what you did was appreciated and it wasn't wasted time.

745
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:40.519
And second of all, you're going to be much more

746
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:43.239
likely to do that again because you know that that's

747
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:46.280
a valued behavior. And so you know, one of the

748
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.719
one of my biggest learnings, you know, studying positive psychology

749
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:55.000
is it's much more powerful to help identify what people

750
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:58.800
are doing well and double down on those things. It's

751
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:01.920
just to focus on what people are getting wrong.

752
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:05.480
No, no doubt, one hundred percent alignment on that. A

753
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:08.280
lot of listeners and yours don't understand. And I learned

754
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:10.920
this in my years and that I continue continue to

755
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:14.320
measure and improve employee engagement. But there's there's a couple

756
00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:21.039
of really standard value what I want to say, values

757
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:23.079
or whatever that people really care about when it comes

758
00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:26.760
to engagement. One is the value being valued and appreciated,

759
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:30.800
which we're talking about. That's one of the strongest indicators

760
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:33.920
or factors that drive employee engagement. Another one is learning

761
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.079
and development. Of course, there's also the connection to the

762
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.280
manager that we've been talking about through this whole time.

763
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:40.679
So I want to go to that learning and development piece,

764
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:42.760
but I want to do it specifically through your lens

765
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:45.480
that you talk about in your book about creating meaning

766
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:49.800
through challenge. Now you wouldn't know this, but one of

767
00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:54.760
my three master's degrees is a master well three just three, yes,

768
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:56.519
three three masters.

769
00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:57.119
Yeah.

770
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:58.719
My mother kept saying, when are you going to stop

771
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:00.800
going to school? I'd be like, wep never, and that

772
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:03.239
would give her like a small series of many heart attacks.

773
00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:06.159
But it's it's called it. It's a it's a diplomat

774
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:11.679
in logo philosophy. That is doctor Victor Frankel's existential psychology work.

775
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:14.679
Of course that so I know he's worked very well,

776
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:16.679
and so I really want to situate what you have

777
00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:19.880
in your book about how you put forth. For those

778
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.840
of you who don't know who he is, he's a

779
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:27.079
He was an Austrian psychiatrist, holocaust survivor, and the author

780
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:28.480
of many, many different.

781
00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:31.000
Works of book works books.

782
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:33.760
But he put forth the idea that what people, when

783
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:36.880
he says, man, what people actually really need is not

784
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:41.440
a tensionless state, but rather the striving and struggling for

785
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:45.159
some goal worthy of them. What this, what people need

786
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:48.039
is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but

787
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:51.559
the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled

788
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.800
by them. And so the opportunity is that it is

789
00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:56.880
just that right to be able to fill that bucket,

790
00:42:56.880 --> 00:43:00.239
to elicit that that reach, and that that difficult do.

791
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:02.280
That is what brings out the best in people. So

792
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:05.199
if you could speak a little bit about creating meaning

793
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:06.159
through challenge.

794
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:10.000
First of all, A huge fan of Victor Frankel, and

795
00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:13.440
I have that quote in several of the workshops. I

796
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:19.440
t we're aligned there, and I'll say, just to frame things,

797
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:23.800
one of the first things that I do when I'm

798
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:27.119
giving a presentation on meaning or doing a workshop that

799
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:31.679
involves some of these practices is ask people to think

800
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:34.239
about a time that was especially meaningful to them, a

801
00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:37.599
time at work that they feel really proud of or

802
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:41.320
that's really stuck with them. That's powerful. And I would

803
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:44.800
say more than eighty percent of the time, people don't

804
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.840
talk about things that were easy. They talked about Man,

805
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:50.559
there was this thing that was really hard. I didn't

806
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:53.159
think I could do it. It was a real struggle,

807
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:57.280
but our team banded together. I pushed myself beyond my

808
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.519
capabilities in a way that you know, I was sure

809
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:02.679
was possible, and we came out the other side and

810
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:06.239
we did it. And in the moment you know that

811
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:09.559
I think this is this is where this idea that

812
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:13.320
people should be happy at work sometimes conflicts with this

813
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:16.320
idea of meaning. Right, you know, we're not going to

814
00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:18.400
be happy all the time. We can't expect to be

815
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:21.599
happy all the time. But that struggle is what allows

816
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:24.960
us to grow and to learn and to get better.

817
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:28.880
There is no growth without struggle, without pushing ourselves beyond

818
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:32.519
the bounds of what we can already do. And that's

819
00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:35.960
that's a really important part of being human. And so

820
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.559
we want to Very few of us want to sit

821
00:44:38.599 --> 00:44:41.039
in the same job, doing the same thing for the

822
00:44:41.079 --> 00:44:44.000
next forty years. We want to progress, we want to

823
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:47.039
move up, we want to do more difficult things. We

824
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:51.000
want to expand, and you know, we have to provide

825
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:54.679
people the opportunity to do that. If you know, we

826
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:57.000
want them to experience meaning and if we want to

827
00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:59.320
get their best work out of them, we have to

828
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:02.360
give them a true projectory and to do it.

829
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:03.559
So I like how you situate.

830
00:45:03.639 --> 00:45:06.639
You want to meaningfully challenge them but also support them

831
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:08.320
along the way. Don't just throw them into the deep

832
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:10.760
en and say so I'm to the other side. You know,

833
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:13.760
you're challenging it while also supporting them. I think that's

834
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:15.800
really really important. Yeah.

835
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:19.320
Bob Quinn, who's you know from Michigan, one of the

836
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:23.760
founders of the Center for Positive Organizations there uses the

837
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:27.599
analogy It's like a leader has one hand on your

838
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:31.079
back pushing you forward and another under your arm helping

839
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:35.360
you navigate yes terrain, And we found that's really important.

840
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:37.320
You you need high expectations.

841
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:37.840
You want to.

842
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:40.480
Push people outside of their comfort zone to give them

843
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:44.760
stretch assignments, to give them opportunities to grow. And you

844
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.000
need to support them through that, not just push them

845
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.360
out of the nest and hope they fly, but actually

846
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:52.679
give them the tools, the resources, the coaching that they

847
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:54.639
need to find their way forward.

848
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:57.480
And I did want to finish on that note.

849
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:00.159
Wes, this idea the zone of possibilities you call in

850
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.960
the last chapter of your book, and setting high expectation

851
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:04.880
for all to lean into, and what I want to

852
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:06.960
situate here. I do like how you draw on the

853
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.199
Pygmalion effect, But which is really all about is putting

854
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:16.960
forth the expectation that one manager's believe in the potential

855
00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:20.079
of their people. They're not expecting them just to deliver

856
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:22.639
the least amount, to be able to do their work

857
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:27.199
at all. And that that nineteen word phrase that you

858
00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:29.239
talk about in the book, I'll have to find it here.

859
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:30.239
I've got it in my notes.

860
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:32.679
That really is feedback imagining.

861
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:35.199
Yeah, I'm giving you this feedback because I have high

862
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:38.079
expectations of you and I know that you will achieve them.

863
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:40.800
Yes, And you imagine if you community that to your people,

864
00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:42.960
they want to deliver on that and they if they

865
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:45.719
really believe that you believe in them, they will move

866
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:47.679
heaven and earth to be able to do that for you.

867
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:49.920
So we only have like maybe about a minute or

868
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:51.199
so to address it, But if you could say a

869
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.880
bit more about how magical that this idea of the

870
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:57.000
zone of possibilities and setting those high expectations can be.

871
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:02.239
Yeah, just communicy that telling people that you have high

872
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:05.760
expectations of them, treating them as if they have high

873
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:09.440
potential is a very powerful way to communicate to them

874
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:13.360
that they have the opportunity to grow. I mean, I

875
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:16.360
think we all have somebody that believed in us, that

876
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:19.559
pushed us, that saw something that we didn't see for ourselves.

877
00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:22.000
I know I have a number of those people to

878
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:24.519
thank for learning and growing.

879
00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:25.800
And being where I am now.

880
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:30.119
And leaders and managers can be that for someone else

881
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:34.480
and taking the time to coach somebody to you know,

882
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:37.199
help connect them with someone who might be a valuable

883
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:40.800
resource to them, to make recommendations for things that they

884
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:44.480
should read or learn or whatever. You know, is a

885
00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:48.639
very powerful way to instill that sense of challenge and

886
00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:50.000
give people a way forward.

887
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:54.320
Yeah, and really quick leasures and viewers. Wes and Tamar

888
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:56.679
and I are aligned on this. This is not about

889
00:47:56.719 --> 00:47:59.360
just your high po your high performance performers, which is

890
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:01.960
I have to ten percent of your people. It's everybody

891
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:04.199
in your organization needs to have this kind of gaze

892
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:08.960
and support and encouragement to become their best. So I'm

893
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:12.280
all for it. You know, just eradicating to hypo focus myself.

894
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:16.400
So now you know that this is the show is

895
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:18.599
listened to by people around the world. Say, in about

896
00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:20.719
fifteen seconds, what would you like to leave them with?

897
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:25.039
Remember to say thank you. It's the easiest thing that

898
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:28.599
you can do, and I promise.

899
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:29.960
You it has a huge impact.

900
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:32.480
That is gorgeous. Well let's just do that.

901
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:35.519
Thank you Wes for writing this perfect book, for being you,

902
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:38.199
and for coming on the podcast and sharing about it.

903
00:48:38.199 --> 00:48:39.559
It's been a delight to have you on.

904
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:42.800
Thank you. I've loved the conversation me too.

905
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.239
Listeners and viewers, you're going to want to learn more

906
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:47.880
about Wes Adams and the work he does the book

907
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:50.360
that he and Tomorrow have e written. You can start

908
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:54.559
by visiting make work Meaningful dot com. How easy is that?

909
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:58.360
Make work meaningful dot com? Last week, if you missed

910
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.719
the live show, you can always catch a year QUI podcast.

911
00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:04.559
We're on air with tomorrow with Tamera Ryan, former longtime

912
00:49:04.599 --> 00:49:07.599
CEO of the Women's Bean Project, talking about her book

913
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:11.280
Followship Sixteen lessons to become a Leader worth following and

914
00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:14.199
I am completely aligned with her message that was excited

915
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.280
to share it with you. Next week will be on

916
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:19.360
the air with Dana Williams talking about her freshly released

917
00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:23.159
book The Internal Revolution. Lead authentically and build your personal

918
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:26.039
brand from within. See you then together, let's lean in

919
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.599
and learn together how to make workplaces that call for

920
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:31.920
it the best from everyone, build our inspirational leadership capacity

921
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:34.480
and find ways you do business that serves all of

922
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:35.320
our stakeholders.

923
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:36.639
Let's Work on Purpose.

924
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:39.559
Welcome you.

925
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:42.719
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

926
00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:46.400
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

927
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:49.840
each week on W four CY. Together, we'll create a

928
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:54.519
world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion. Performance

929
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:57.360
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

930
00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:01.159
and purpose. They crave see you there. Work on purpose,