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The topics and opinions express in the following show are
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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
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all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor
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Elise Cortes.
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Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has
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been brought to you with passion and pride since February
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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great
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to have you. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. If
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we've not met before and you don't know me, I'm
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a workforce advisor, organizational psychologist, management consultant, logo therapist, speaker
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and author. My team and I at Gustri and I
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help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by building
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a dynamic, high performance culture, inspirational leadership, and nurturing managers
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activated by meaning and purpose. Many organizations are not aware
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of just how critical it is to invest in developing
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their leaders and managers not just for their own effectiveness,
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but also to avoid burnout and keep them fulfilled. And
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you do know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied peers
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by factor of two point twenty five to one. In
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other words, inspiration is good for the bottom line. You
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can learn more about us and how we can work
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together at Gusto dashnow dot com or my personal website
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at Leiscortes dot com. Getting into today's program, we have
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with us doctor Prithburra Chowdhry, a globally recognized expert on
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the future of work, serving on the faculties at Wharton
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and Harvard Business School for over a decade. He studies
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how technology is shifting wherever we work and how we work.
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He has pioneered research on the change in geography of
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work and how work from anywhere affects workers, organizations, communities,
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and smaller towns. He also studies the impact of AI
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and organizations and how AI and automation can help both
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desk workers and desk desk list workers work from anywhere.
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His book, The World Is Your Office, How Work from
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Anywhere Boosts talent, productivity, and innovation, which we're talking about today,
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was published by Harvard Business Press in April twenty twenty
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five and became a national bestseller in the United States.
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He joined us today from Boston, where he has been residing.
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He'll soon be relocating to London, where I have to
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come and see him. Raj, Welcome to Working on Purpose.
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Thanks for having me.
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It's wonderful to have you. And when I first all
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your book and I reached out to you, I said,
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you've got to come on and talk to me about this,
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because you know, as somebody who is helping organizations steward
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their culture, their leadership, and being in the middle of
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all these conversations about this forced return to office, I
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was like, I've got to hear what this man has
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to say. So thank you very much for coming on.
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I devoured your book. We have a shorter episode and
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I want to get through as many topics as we
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possibly can. I just want to start with the promise
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of your book, Raj, and as somebody who would love
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I live in Dallas, I would love to work from
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Greece and Italy and other places and such, I want
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to just start with this idea of the war. You know,
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you're moving past the idea of work from anywhere, not
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just a workforce perk, but as a transformational shift. Can
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we start with that idea?
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Sure? Absolutely so. I'd like I described in the book.
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Work from anywhere is the idea that I've been working
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on for over it, you know, many many years now
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close to a decade. And work from anywhere is not
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the same as work from home. So work from anywhere,
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as I say this twice and every session that I attend,
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work from anywhere is not the same as work from home.
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Work from anywhere is about having the freedom to choose
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where to live. So which city with state, which region,
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sometimes even which country, and then once you've chosen that location,
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you could be working from home, you could be working
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from a co working space, you could be working from
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a small satellite office of the company. All of that
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is worked from anywhere. And as I discussed in the book,
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this is a win win. It's good for the worker,
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it's good for the organization, and now we know enough
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about how to work from anywhere, we also have a
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solid repertoire of best practices.
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You know, when the COVID nineteen pendem was going down,
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I was also getting very interested in how people were
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going inward, looking at what do they want from their
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lives and their work, And I wrote about that too
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in a couple of my books, and I became very
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fascinated with the connection of people's work to themselves in
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their lives. Where did you start to get fascinated with
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this idea of working from anywhere?
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Yeah, So I've been a scholar of geography, so I've
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studied this question about how do firms access talent that's
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living far away, distant talent. And the premise there was that,
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you know, we know that talent is everywhere, but opportunities
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are not and so the dominant way firms have managed
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to access distant talent is by forcing talent to relocate.
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You pack your bags and you move from the West
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coast to the East coast, or from China to the US,
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or from Australia to India or whatnot. And that's worked
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for firms for many, many, many years, but it has
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also created lots of problems for both companies and workers.
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Think about regulation, think about licensing, occupational licensing things, think
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about visas. Think about leaving your parents back home and
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moving seven thousand miles and you can't now take care
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of them. And so, as I was studying migration and
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documenting very meticulously both the benefits of migration, I also
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realized that migration and relocation has lots of challenges. And
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about twenty fifteen I then started thinking, why is there
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not an alternate model instead of having people move? Why
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can't companies let the work move to places that people
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want to live in? And I call that work from anywhere.
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It's just yummy, Raj, It's just yummy. Okay. I know
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you talk about how this idea is really something that
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leaders need to embrace. So let's maybe situate next some
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of the benefits for companies. As I say, I'm just
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fascinating with these mandates of work, you know, return forced
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one hundred percent work from the office that I see
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large organizations trying to erect. And so you talk about,
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of course this notion that talent without borders, and so
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now organizations have the opportunity to it to access all
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kinds of talent they wouldn't otherwise have any access to.
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Yes, and you've already stated the main reason. So the
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main reason to embrace work from anywhere as a leader
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is work from anywhere allows companies to hire from anywhere,
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So you dramatically expand your labor market access. So now
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you can even though you're in the East Coast, you
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can hire from the West Coast. You can hire from
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the Heartland, you can hire from Canada, you can hire
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from Mexico. You can even go and hire from a
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different continent if you want to do that. There are
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other and that kind of hiring does two things. It
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expands the talent pool. It gives you access to more
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diverse talent, So diversity based on gender, based on ethnicity,
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based on geographic region. And we know that diverse talent
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leads to better innovation. I think that's been established in
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the research community for decades now. The second thing that
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Work from Anywhere does is it converts real estate cost
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into a variable cost. So now you don't have to
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commit to a thirty year lease or building a huge
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building that's fifty percent occupied all the time. Now for
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Work from Anywhere, teams they need to meet. That's very,
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very important, and in the book I stress that a
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lot that intentional in person is very important. But you
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can now rent the real estate when you need it.
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You can hire a coworking space when the teams want
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to meet. So you're converting real estate into a utility,
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just like electricity or water, and that saves a lot
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of money for companies if it's done well. And they
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could also be some productivity benefits, which I document in
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both my research and the book. But again to summarize,
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the main reason is accessing talent beyond one single geographic location.
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I'm convinced, of course. However, I do know that chief
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financial officers and chief human resource officers can be really
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skeptical in part because they worry about managing costs or
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especially losing connection to workers. Now I know, you go
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into detail about how to address that. But because people
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haven't read the book yet like I have, can you
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say a bit about how your research overcomes the turnover
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and organizational performance issues.
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So, first of all, work from anywhere, as I've shown
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in my research, leads to luring attrition because now that
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you are allowing people to live, they want to live.
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They are more happier employees, the work life balance is
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much better, and especially for women, this is the game changer.
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So I'll just mentioned a couple of things. So we
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know for at least three decades now in the search
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community that in dual career couples, the woman disproportionately praise
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pays a price because of geography, and it doesn't have
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to be a new job. So imagine a woman working
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in a large company in Boston if the next promotion
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means that she has to move to San Francisco. But
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the research shows is that in many cases the person
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is not able to move because the partner or sometimes
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even the kids don't want to move. So geography becomes
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a spanner in the wheel in career progression. Work from
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Anywhere solves that problem. Now both men and women can
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take a promotion without moving, without relocating. That's the first part.
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Think about military spouses they've had no career continuity whatsoever,
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or the spouses of diplomats, same problem. Work from Anywhere
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solves that problem. And what my research shows is that
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these groups of workers become incredibly low and stay longer
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and work harder and a're more productive under a work
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from Anywhere scenario. And then in the book and I
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can go deeper, alis like there are many ways to
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build connection, but the most important idea is to bring
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people together at some frequency that works best for the team.
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So for some teams, it could be weekly meetings. For
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some teams, it could be monthly meetings. For other teams
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could it could even mean a quarterly retreat. But when
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the team is together, the only thing that people are
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doing is socializing. So no one is sitting in the
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corridor wearing headphones getting on zoom, no one is sitting
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in the corner office working on Excel. For that week
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or those three four days, you are spending it with
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the team in a very deep, meaningful way. And that's
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the best way to build connection.
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I believe, Oh yeah, quality experiences totally and I really
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appreciate this is why I get so excited about your
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research and your work, Raj, is that you're giving you
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your really extending the opportunity for more humans across the
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planet to participate in the world of work that in
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a way that works on their terms, and therefore you're
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actually helping people to realize more of their potential. And
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I could get behind that every day all day long. Okay,
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So speaking of that, we got to talk next about
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some of the ways that working from home helps human
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and social impact really really interesting things. You already talked
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a bit about how it helps empower people and families
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to stay together and to be able to have more
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of what they want from their respective lives, but then
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you also talk about rebalancing economic geography, and I was
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really interested. You do talk about the research that Suhani
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Jalada and also Lisa Hoe have been doing which has
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really speaking to elevating employment opportunities for women in countries
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and communities where the social and religious norms are stacked
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against them. So working from home opens that for them,
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and I think that's really compelling. So if we could
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talk a little bit about the human and social impact
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and working from home affords.
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Yeah, sure, But first of all, you know that study
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is a work from home study, which I respect my
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book in my research mostly is about work from anywhere.
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It's about choosing the geography. The same principles apply. So
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what they find in their research is in certain communities. So,
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first of all, their main motivation is that in India,
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it is really surprising that a pretty progressive country with
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a very vibrant democracy has a really a bimissile female
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labor rate participation, So it's really really low. And one
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of the reasons they argue it's low is that in
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many communities in India, women are not expected to socially